tomassi

@thefourfoldroot but it's not an 'invitational' tournament. It's a tournament set up by 12 teams that they can compete in amongst themselves. Sure they may invite some special guests every season (a whole five teams across the WHOLE of Europe) but it's essentially for themselves.

The history of football is woven into those local rivalries (in my case Southampton v Portsmouth) or the David v Goliath FA Cup slayings, or the drama filled Champions League evenings (Lucas Moura's hat trick against Ajax in the SF being prime drama, or Liverpool's comeback in Istanbul against AC Milan). What it isn't is a league table amongst clubs who aren't even from the same country therefore have no historic meaning to their matches.

And all of the big clubs pretty much 90% of the time end up playing in the QF of the CL anyway, so surely the idea of this league is moot? What's the point when the CL latter stages are largely predictable affairs anyway? Seriously, the only time they are interesting is when you get a Spurs, Ajax or Atalanta or someone making a surprise run. It gives you someone to root for against the perennial big boys.

And, I don't mean to insult you, but if you really love football that much you surely understand the meaning behind all this history etc that we have? And surely you can see that it MEANS something more than just binning it off so we can watch Neymar and Mbappe v Messi every other week?

@DonJorginho oh diddums, you were pressured to sign up because everyone else was. Who told you that? Roman?! What a load of rubbish. They're just trying to save face. Abramovich was one of the first billionaire owners to come into the EPL, which prompted loads of others because everyone had to try and compete with what he was spending at the time. So, yeah, he IS one of the main reasons the top division is in this mess. Clubs need, like Germany, to be owned majority by the fans, 51% or more. End of story. These clubs mean more to generations of fans in communities than they ever will to billionaire owners and that includes Abramovich I'm afraid.

Oh, and I support Southampton.

@DonJorginho haha, give me a break. 3 days ago he was about to sell your club down the river. Then because everyone goes mad about it he has to change his mind. Now he's a hero?!

People like Abramovich are why football is in such a state in the first place.

@thefourfoldroot you don't support a team, so you're argument is fairly invalid to be honest. You are part of the problem that these billionaires are trying to aim at. The desire for people with no vested interest in the history or community of a team, to just watch Mbappe and Neymar because they're the only players they know.

I mean, why would some 'fan' from Africa or Asia care about Wrexham beating Arsenal in the FA Cup in 1992, or Leicester (who the hell are THEY?!?!?!!?!) winning the league in 2016, or small clubs like Atalanta qualifying and getting to QF of Champions League. Honestly, it's embarrassing. The default setting for any of these people is "I know Messi, Ronaldo (sorry, R9), Mbappe and Neymar. Do I need to know anyone else"?? I've no problem with this product being global but don't try and ruin it for everyone else. Don't try and wash away hundreds of years of history and community because team A doesn't have Messi in their lineup, therefore you can't be bothered to watch them.

The point about mid-table Premier League games being meaningless also doesn't carry weight BECAUSE of the history of the teams competing. There are rivalries, local derbies etc. What history does Spurs v Atletico Madrid have at the end of another boring repetitive ESL season, when Spurs have lost all their games AGAIN because they are worse than all the others. Nothing. It means nothing. There is no history there. There's probably no fans there either. Because, apart from you it seems, no one wanted it in the first place.

And, yes the teams had no intention of leaving their leagues, of course they didn't. They wanted their cake and they wanted to eat it. They would rightly have been kicked out anyway though. The Champions League has ruined football enough as it is, let alone this new league if it happened.

I'm old enough to remember when there was a European Cup (for, y'know, the clubs who actually win their leagues, not finish 4th), the UEFA Cup (for the runners up) and the Cup Winners Cup (doesn't need explanation)! It was perfect. Then the CL came along and we have huge disparities at the top of the game. Clubs who were giants of world football are barely heard of anymore. I could pretty much dictate to you the QF lineups of most CL seasons, in advance (Real, PSG, Bayern, Barca, Liverpool, City etc). It's boring enough as it is, we don't need to make it more boring.

@thefourfoldroot the FA and government came out and said they would kick out any teams from the doemstic league who are taking part in the ESL. That's why fans are annoyed. These are clubs that have been in their communities for well over a hundred years. People LIKE to watch their Liverpool team play Southampton, or Leeds. If that was all taken away just to please some billionaires and 'fans' in other countries who have no ties to these clubs other than social media and playing FIFA, then football is dead. Their team as they know it is dead. Hundreds of years of history, dead.

And even if they were allowed to stay in the Premier League, the revenue they would have got from the ESL means the other teams would have had even less chance to compete than they do now.

So, yes, it's brilliant news it's collapsed. BUT football is in a helluva state anyway and needs urgent reform from the ground up. Like in Germany, all clubs should be 51% or more owned/governed by their fans, thus preventing foreign billionaires with no interest in fans or history, to make decisions like this.

@thefourfoldroot I think the point is, every game WOULDN'T have been important in such a league. Because it's closed. You can't get relegated. So once someone has won the league, the rest of the games in the season just become meaningless. Almost exibition matches in effect. No one wants that. People love football because it offers you hope and dreams. It makes you happy when you win and sad when you lose. Even more so if you are near the top or bottom of the league, or get knocked out of a cup or win a final.

I'm a Spurs fan and am disgusted they would consider this and, considering how bad we are, embarrassed. It's one thing wanting to play the same 12 teams over and over again until monotony, it's another LOSING every one of those games as well!!

Another big Sony exclusive would be cool - Death Stranding, Gran Turismo or Lost Legacy maybe?

And then a handful of smaller indie games like last time would be cool - Dead Cells, Firewatch, Hyper Light Drifter, Moving Out, Guacamelee 2. Things like that.

The best thing about this is, even if you already own and played the game via PS Plus or PS Now, it's STILL a bonus because you get to keep it if you ever cancel.

Looks like something my daughter may want to play, but I think we'll stick with Stardew Valley.

Is this co-operative?

No idea what dust catchers are. Where are they located? What do they look like? How do you access them? So many questions!

@kingv84 I know, I just don't really care because I don't play on my phone and I don't have a PC. The big question is, if you can stream on those two systems, why can't you stream the games on XBOX? I don't know why you'd want to, but the option would be good, seeing as Now offers it (albeit pretty badly).

@kingv84 My son has an XBOX and he 100% can't stream games to it.

@kingv84 pretty sure Gamepass doesn't offer streaming, merely downloading. NOW can't offer downloading of PS3 games, and the streaming quality is average or, depending your country non-existant, so I'd cull them entirely and open it up to all countries. It might just be my OCD though that thinks merely PS4/5 downloads is less messy.

They already do have an answer to Game Pass - it's called Playstation Now and it's not that great and isn't available in a lot of countries.

I actually think Sony need to cut their losses with the PS3 games on Now, as this is probably the main reason it's not available worldwide. Do many people really stream those games? I'd imagine it's not huge numbers. That way, they can have a service like GamePass which is download only games and the money they save from paying to have PS3 games they can put towards better PS4/5 games on Now.

@Voltan Ubisoft are doing some sort of Rollerderby type thing I think, maybe that's what you're thinking of? Not sure if it's free or not though.

I like to have a driving game in the collection, just to vary things up for half hour every so often. Not massively into them, and certainly not very good at them though. I own DriveClub and have Dirt Rally 2.0 via Plus. Do I need Gran Turismo as well would anyone say? Is it MUCH better than Driveclub for instance (which seems pretty good to me from a 'not interested in cars in the slightest' place).

@Voltan I know the cut scenes in games are important to some people but I just hate it when there isn't at least the option to skip them. We don't all want to spend that long of our limited gaming time watching and not playing!

Loaded it up, have so far had to watch what seems like half an hour of unskippable cut scenes, so considering deleting it!

NMS is still a game that I really WANT to like and get into, and every so often I excitedly load it up and then......just get bored within 10 minutes and quit.

@nessisonett Thanks for the reply. To be honest, I'm not really target audience for these types of games. I have fairly limited gaming time generally due to the usual work/kids/wife! So I like quick pick up and play experiences that have some action in them, if that makes sense. Where I'm actually DOING something. Even if its Tony Hawk, or FIFA, or RDR2 or God of War or some smaller platformy indie thing. Otherwise I feel like I've wasted what little time I have by making barely any progress at something!

I think £26 is a good price though, so maybe at it's first discount I'll give it a go as I imagine it will be less than £20 at some point. i can justify that more!

Well that was nothing to get excited about was it. Hundreds of those games have been cheaper in previous sales, and the rest of them are still way over priced anyway! Or just flat out rubbish!

@nessisonett could you tell me, is this a point and click kind of thing, or do you actually move the character around via the sticks etc. Without sounding like a neanderthal, can I shoot or punch people using the controller and my own 'wits' or is it an XCOM style thing where I click somewhere and the AI does the rest?

Not that I'll get it any time soon after the early review on here!

I'd rather someone come out with a new version of Cannon Fodder to be honest. And Sensi Soccer as well whilst their at it!

Now we just need 2K to make a soccer game to also take on EA!

If, in two years, it has had some sort of NMS style renaissance, then I may pick it up for a tenner just to see what all the fuss is about.

I'd settle for Uncharted Lost Legacy and a relatively small indie game.

Downloaded my free upgrade today. Definitely loading quicker but can't say I've noticed much else different. And my save hasn't transferred over!!

@Stevethejedi all apart from Paper Beasts, Moss and Astro Bot I believe.

@Nifty Definitely. I went on the web browser version of the store, under the Play at Home section and clicked on each game individually 'Add to Library'.

Well, that looks rubbish!

@Paranoimia you can grab all the games and add them to your library, regardless if you play them or not. You never know, you may one day get a VR headset and you'll be glad you added Moss and Astro Bot then!

@C0NNERS just came here to say exactly that! I have an MLB via PS Plus I think, and I know nothing about baseball and haven't barely touched the game, but £3.99 is worth it just in case I stop subbing to Plus AND get in to baseball games all of a sudden!!

@sketchturner exactly! That's what I want to know.

I probably would pay a one-off, lowish fee for ALL of them but realistically, would I actually play any of the games? Probably not. Maybe some of the old PES games, GTA VC and SA, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3. A handful of others. Then the novelty would wear off real quick and I'd never use it again.

This looks the same as American Fugitive in presentation and art style. Is it by the same creators?

Nice! Can't beat free stuff!

I rarely ever sit through cut scenes, let alone replay a game if I've finished it (which isn't very often)!

There's not enough hours in the day to replay stuff again. Same with films or TV shows. So much new content every 5 minutes, I can't rewatch stuff.

@StylesT I said 'i don't care' twice I think. Should I LIKE Bethesda games then? Nothing there of interest to me, sorry. I won't even notice they've gone because I simply don't play those types of games.

Couldn't care less. No love for Bethesda games anyway. Bit disappointed that I now won't be able to see if the Indiana Jones game is good (and if it is, even more disappointed I won't get to play it) but other than that I don't care. Wolfenstein is OK I guess, not into Doom, Fallout or Dishonored etc anyway though.

@Hyperluminal why?

@theheadofabroom I feel ya! Got mine Saturday and felt rough by that night and all day Sunday. Mostly back to 90% come today though.

The only criteria that could have made me want it wasn't met. Wireless. If I have to keep plugging long cables in etc then, no, it's not for me.

This would have to be VERY competitively priced for anyone to bother purchasing it. The first one is regularly in sales for £2-3 nowadays, and even Rise has been in sale for £5-7 sometimes. So Shadow will hit that point as well soon. So, unless this comes in at around £15 (which it won't) then it's a HUGE waste of money!!

If they were to chuck in some PS1 Tomb Raiders in the whole package maybe that would entice people?

I've had numerous FIFA's over the last 5-6 years and have NEVER played FUT until this year when I thought I'd finally try it out. At first I was baffled by what was going on but I soon got into it and it's really addictive (more addictive than enjoyable at times let's be honest).

I mainly play offline squad battles because I hate playing online (alhough I play some Rivals every so often). I have a great squad without spending any money whatsoever. I don't have any mega expensive cards or icons, but I have half a dozen players of the week and a Future Stars Saka. To be honest though, unless a player has pace they are useless in FIFA anyway.

Also, having played some Rivals this weekend, basically every oppostion you play against just quits out of the match before it can finish anyway. What's the point of that??

@danlk1ng I've not got past the first couple of missions on Control, so no idea what you're talking about! Is the boss called Tomassi?!! I need to invest more time into that game it seems!

Not for me. Can't stand spiky hair JRPG's, nor FPS puzzle games, nor Souls-eque games, and I don't have VR!

Oh well, plenty of other stuff to play!

@kyleforrester87 get that out of my face!!

Please no. Can't stand Japanese games with characters with stupid spiky hair.

Literally couldn't care less. Next question!

@LieutenantFatman That's a very good deal!