Happy New Year to you all as well (plus all fab PS regulars). I haven’t been as active of late due to a multitude of things but have enjoyed my visits and am excited for the next year of games and tings.
@Kidfried Well there are two things to pull apart here - firstly from a crunch perspective, I think consumer rights and protection and the abuse at the studio aren't mutually exclusive - as in I never ever think it acceptable that workers have to crunch to make these made up release dates. I personally get annoyed when sites (even this one) ask for patches as soon as possible without considering the human cost of doing so. The game should not have been released and should not have been crunched this badly regardless of outcome.
However since it DID and the mgt made this decision, I think consumer rights now kick in. People have bought the game and yes, personal responsibility comes into it. However I'd state that we are outliers in the community. Those of us who are really into games could see the signs that reviews weren't out and all that but an average consumer who has been hyped for ages and been deliberately given no reason to think the game wouldn't be awesome might have ordered.
I think pre-order culture is a bad idea and I don't support it but I think if companies push it so hard, but given that this can happen, i think consumer protection is important.
I think a refund policy like Steam's is necessary on any digital store. I have been lucky with getting a refund before BUT it took a lot of effort (I unwittingly bought DLC for a US copy of a game that was incompatible - they refunded after I took photos of the game disc and sent it).
Should everyone be able to try before they buy? I think so. Sure there is a fine line between me spending an hour or so with a game and getting a refund coz I didnt like it and a game where there are unsolvable problems at launch.
Things are tough this year - some people no doubt bought Cyberpunk 2077 as gifts OR as their game for the christmas period. They have a right to get the money and spend it elsewhere.
@mookysam Excellent point - I keep seeing statements in comments and in media stating they 'hope CDPR can get fixes out quickly'. What of the human cost to do that? These guys have been crunching for untold months.
This apology is nice but ultimately meaningless as it skirts over the truth that they deliberately misled purchasers on day one.
This game was marketed for years as being a PS4 and XB1 game - the largest install base combined is the PS4 and XB1 console. This should have released before next gen consoles were a thing.
Ultimately they are stating that you will get an inferior product if you play on PS4 or XB1 and you'll never get it as good as higher end machines.
You could argue that this has always been the way with next gen games released on older machines except this has been marketed for those consoles. It should be running at an acceptable level on those consoles. Now the statement says you'll never get as good an experience on older hardware. Where was that in the marketing?
If you have a PS5 and it runs ok, great. However you will have paid the same price as someone who bought it for their base PS4 because it says it is a PS4 game.
Clearly they were in a financial state where they could not afford to launch and knowing that they deliberately withheld console copies for review and demanded reviewers signed up to unfavourable terms.
As consumers it is correct to ask for refunds and to return when the game is at an acceptable standard.
This game is amazing and while I am not sure I want to play again because I felt my first playthrough was so unique to me, I loved what voice acting there was in the original release.
There are clearly core intrinsic issues with getting this to run on base consoles and I'm not surprised - it feels very much like the ambition outstripped the hardware. It looks, and I stress I haven't played but have seen a lot of posted footage etc, like playing on base consoles is going to give you a worse experience than playing on Pro and PS5 or PC of course. However, the price is the same.
The delays and the lack of console review versions are a good indication that this was known. The game itself is probably great but I do feel that launching a game at the same price with such issues across all platforms is a little disingenous and reviews etc. should reflect that.
It's to do with the internet age and the way the advertising market rolls on. Everyone needs engagement, everyone needs clicks or views and you tend to get that with news and hype for the next thing. Publishers pump a lot into getting people hyped, then media outlets push that hype to get views and we, the readers, also want to read the new thing.
There are some exceptions - some communities are large enough to keep topics and games alive (look at Dark Souls) beyond this period but ultimately, they'll all die pretty quickly. Sign of the times.
I have a whopper of a backlog across multiple devices. Some times I love it - I just fancy something and wham, can play. Other times, I get stressed at having such a large backlog.
What the last generation has shown is that the market cannot sustain multiple online games that can bring in that revenue. If you dedicate your time to Warzone, you aren't playing Apex Legends and The Division 2 etc.
For every success story in the online space, there are far more fails. Revenue is not guaranteed.
A single player game can never reach the revenue of an online game like Fortnite or GTA V but it doesn't need to succeed in the same way.
@Th3solution Absolutely - price drops tend to occur when they feel they have squeezed enough out of a sales to then appeal to people who are on the fence. If there aren't sales, these prices arent going down.
Actually I think MS and Sony do have an interest in stopping this. We all know that hardware, especially at launch, is often sold close to cost or at a loss. The money is in software and subscriptions.
If a console is bought by a scalper, it sits there until someone buys it. Eventually they may all go but it could be weeks - often scalpers will drop the price as demand increases. It means that al this time, that PS5 is generating no revenue. No one is buying games for it or potentially taking out PS Plus subs. Those that do buy an inflated priced item from a scalper may therefore have less money to again, invest in the eco-system.
Yeah but nah. In the case of Demon Soul's, you could argue that yeah it is a single player AAA game, takes 30+ hours to complete, more to 100% and is a good game.
I could MAYBE accept that attitude if that was true across the board. Few games are long AAA affairs. Many AAA games have an element of microtransactions, season passes, DLC - the lot. Many have different versions at launch that give you more or less.
Then you add into the mix that publisher revenues have been on the up and up because of the above then you realise this ISN'T a case games costing more so they have to charge a bit more but that they want to cut costs and increase profit.
With every new release and hype, the decision is whether splashing out day one, knowing I am paying more is worthwhile. With TLOU2, loved the first game, didn't want it spoiled, I ordered and played day one. Ultimately, I have been lucky to have income that allows me to buy a few release day games a year. With this price rise and the fact that I paid over £120 for two launch games on PS5, I'll just wait. Sackboy looks great but is £60... we all know that in 6 months it will be half that. In a year, it will be under £20. So in my mind, the trade off doesn't work.
I also hate the cost versus time element. Technically, going to the pub with mates is far more costly by time than gaming. More so even than going to the cinema. Doesn't mean the experience isn't worthwhile.
Nice review - very balanced. I think my only qualm at the moment is the HDD space - the 1TB does my just fine on my PS4 Pro but what is there is quite small. Still, as someone who typically plays one game at a time, I'll just wait till the prices come down on SSD. However, that is quite clear in the review. I am looking forward to trying the haptic controller very much!
@AK4tywill The games are really solid and more so when you realise they are PSP games. They crammed a lot in and yep, I liked The Order too - it had flaws but also lots of potential.
Been pulled into Super Hot:Mind Control Delete so will finish that off and maybe some more Star Wars Squadrons. Also chop away at GOW:Chains of Olympus on PS3!
Look MS have a service to sell and you need a catalogue of games to sell that service. Anyone that didn’t think there would be an element of exclusivity with such a huge purchase is a little naive. Bethesda have recognisable brand which is why and would want them. It sucks for us PS gamers and yes it is hypocritical but big business.
Ooooh more Hades, possibly more Chains of Olympus on PS3 and maybe start Yooka Laylee and the Impossible lair if it turns up today as saw it cheap. May also need to play Robinson: The Journey in PSVR since it is one of the few games not compatible with PS5!
@mookysam 100% this - there are some games you cannot actually search and find on the PS Vita store. I can only find them on the webstore. Such as VA-11 etc.
@Octane Ha ha - I feel a strange sense of pride. As in wow - I have spent 6 hours on Hades and barely gotten past the first room. I am wasting my life.
I sit soley in the camp that wants more x-wing flying in VR.
@liamcroft - on the MP, can you play any of those modes with friends or is it all with randoms? Got 2 friends that want to play this together in VR with me. Time for Carlo Spicyweiner to take the to skies.
On the surface it is the kind of thing that publishers do all the time and arguably no one is left behind. You can play Spiderman on PS5 happily. This is a sexier edition.
The issue is really is that lots of other companies are offering it for free to entice people to buy their games in the knowledge it will work on it. So once they offer it, you look less consumer friendly.
Comments 3,651
Re: Rejoice! Joe's Diner Has Gotten a PS5 Patch
I saw the headline picture and thought... AH HA so THIS is what that guy who broke into the Capitol building thinks he looks like (in his head).
Re: Poll: What Was the Best PS4 First-Party Exclusive of the Generation?
Bloodborne closely followed by God Of War
Re: Happy New Year from the Push Square Team
Happy New Year to you all as well (plus all fab PS regulars). I haven’t been as active of late due to a multitude of things but have enjoyed my visits and am excited for the next year of games and tings.
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Aiming to Be a 'Playable, Stable Game without Glitches and Crashes'
I've seen so many comments about people stating, well PS4 and XB1 is old tech - this is holding the game back.
Probably true - so don't release on those consoles. Don't make it a massive focus of your marketing campaign. Admit the issues. Sigh.
Re: Reaction: Cyberpunk 2077 Debacle Proves Sony Needs a Better PS Store Refund Policy
@Kidfried Well there are two things to pull apart here - firstly from a crunch perspective, I think consumer rights and protection and the abuse at the studio aren't mutually exclusive - as in I never ever think it acceptable that workers have to crunch to make these made up release dates. I personally get annoyed when sites (even this one) ask for patches as soon as possible without considering the human cost of doing so. The game should not have been released and should not have been crunched this badly regardless of outcome.
However since it DID and the mgt made this decision, I think consumer rights now kick in. People have bought the game and yes, personal responsibility comes into it. However I'd state that we are outliers in the community. Those of us who are really into games could see the signs that reviews weren't out and all that but an average consumer who has been hyped for ages and been deliberately given no reason to think the game wouldn't be awesome might have ordered.
I think pre-order culture is a bad idea and I don't support it but I think if companies push it so hard, but given that this can happen, i think consumer protection is important.
Re: Reaction: Cyberpunk 2077 Debacle Proves Sony Needs a Better PS Store Refund Policy
I think a refund policy like Steam's is necessary on any digital store. I have been lucky with getting a refund before BUT it took a lot of effort (I unwittingly bought DLC for a US copy of a game that was incompatible - they refunded after I took photos of the game disc and sent it).
Should everyone be able to try before they buy? I think so. Sure there is a fine line between me spending an hour or so with a game and getting a refund coz I didnt like it and a game where there are unsolvable problems at launch.
Things are tough this year - some people no doubt bought Cyberpunk 2077 as gifts OR as their game for the christmas period. They have a right to get the money and spend it elsewhere.
Re: CD Projekt Red Apologises for Hiding Cyberpunk 2077 on Base PS4, Makes Refunds Widely Available
@mookysam Excellent point - I keep seeing statements in comments and in media stating they 'hope CDPR can get fixes out quickly'. What of the human cost to do that? These guys have been crunching for untold months.
Re: CD Projekt Red Apologises for Hiding Cyberpunk 2077 on Base PS4, Makes Refunds Widely Available
This apology is nice but ultimately meaningless as it skirts over the truth that they deliberately misled purchasers on day one.
This game was marketed for years as being a PS4 and XB1 game - the largest install base combined is the PS4 and XB1 console. This should have released before next gen consoles were a thing.
Ultimately they are stating that you will get an inferior product if you play on PS4 or XB1 and you'll never get it as good as higher end machines.
You could argue that this has always been the way with next gen games released on older machines except this has been marketed for those consoles. It should be running at an acceptable level on those consoles. Now the statement says you'll never get as good an experience on older hardware. Where was that in the marketing?
Re: Sony Processing Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds for PS5, PS4 Players
Will it eventually be a good game? Yes.
Did it launch in a state that is acceptable? No.
If you have a PS5 and it runs ok, great. However you will have paid the same price as someone who bought it for their base PS4 because it says it is a PS4 game.
Clearly they were in a financial state where they could not afford to launch and knowing that they deliberately withheld console copies for review and demanded reviewers signed up to unfavourable terms.
As consumers it is correct to ask for refunds and to return when the game is at an acceptable standard.
Re: Disco Elysium Greatly Expanded with New Quests on PS5, Runs at 4K 60FPS
This game is amazing and while I am not sure I want to play again because I felt my first playthrough was so unique to me, I loved what voice acting there was in the original release.
Re: Open Roads Is the Next Game From Gone Home, Tacoma Dev Fullbright
Both Gone Home and Tacoma were great so I will defo check this out.
Re: Poll: Is Cyberpunk 2077's Poor PS4 Performance Acceptable?
There are clearly core intrinsic issues with getting this to run on base consoles and I'm not surprised - it feels very much like the ambition outstripped the hardware. It looks, and I stress I haven't played but have seen a lot of posted footage etc, like playing on base consoles is going to give you a worse experience than playing on Pro and PS5 or PC of course. However, the price is the same.
The delays and the lack of console review versions are a good indication that this was known. The game itself is probably great but I do feel that launching a game at the same price with such issues across all platforms is a little disingenous and reviews etc. should reflect that.
Re: Gangs Are Raiding Lorries to Steal PS5 Stock
Fast & Furious 12 - PS5 Drift.
Re: Soapbox: The Conversation About Games Moves Too Quickly
It's to do with the internet age and the way the advertising market rolls on. Everyone needs engagement, everyone needs clicks or views and you tend to get that with news and hype for the next thing. Publishers pump a lot into getting people hyped, then media outlets push that hype to get views and we, the readers, also want to read the new thing.
There are some exceptions - some communities are large enough to keep topics and games alive (look at Dark Souls) beyond this period but ultimately, they'll all die pretty quickly. Sign of the times.
Re: Soapbox: I've Missed the Feeling of Having a Backlog
@hi_drnick Yeah and a lot of the games I see on my backlog are just huge so I know I'll never get through them.
Re: Sony Backs Single Player Gaming in Leaked PlayStation Documents
@Flaming_Kaiser Exactly - it also takes time to get into a MP game and develop your skills and levels etc.
@KippDynamite Good point - Sony benefit from anyone else who succeeds without the risk. Why would they need to?
Re: Soapbox: I've Missed the Feeling of Having a Backlog
I have a whopper of a backlog across multiple devices. Some times I love it - I just fancy something and wham, can play. Other times, I get stressed at having such a large backlog.
Re: Sony Backs Single Player Gaming in Leaked PlayStation Documents
@carlos82 Very good point about COD - you can't have a persistant online game and yearly iterations and not expect overlap.
@ShogunRok Thanks!
@NickTheGeek JINX!
Re: Sony Backs Single Player Gaming in Leaked PlayStation Documents
What the last generation has shown is that the market cannot sustain multiple online games that can bring in that revenue. If you dedicate your time to Warzone, you aren't playing Apex Legends and The Division 2 etc.
For every success story in the online space, there are far more fails. Revenue is not guaranteed.
A single player game can never reach the revenue of an online game like Fortnite or GTA V but it doesn't need to succeed in the same way.
Re: UK Scalper Group Claims It's Snagged 3,500 PS5 Consoles
@Th3solution Absolutely - price drops tend to occur when they feel they have squeezed enough out of a sales to then appeal to people who are on the fence. If there aren't sales, these prices arent going down.
Re: UK Scalper Group Claims It's Snagged 3,500 PS5 Consoles
Actually I think MS and Sony do have an interest in stopping this. We all know that hardware, especially at launch, is often sold close to cost or at a loss. The money is in software and subscriptions.
If a console is bought by a scalper, it sits there until someone buys it. Eventually they may all go but it could be weeks - often scalpers will drop the price as demand increases. It means that al this time, that PS5 is generating no revenue. No one is buying games for it or potentially taking out PS Plus subs. Those that do buy an inflated priced item from a scalper may therefore have less money to again, invest in the eco-system.
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 351
Spider-Man miles morales and a few other titles for a PS5 review I am writing. I like it so far!
Re: Embracer Group Just Casually Bought Another 13 Developers
Interesting - Devolver digital currently publish Shadow Warrier so wonder what happens with them?
Re: Sony Believes PS5 Game Pricing Is Fair, Denies It Considered Charging More
Yeah but nah. In the case of Demon Soul's, you could argue that yeah it is a single player AAA game, takes 30+ hours to complete, more to 100% and is a good game.
I could MAYBE accept that attitude if that was true across the board. Few games are long AAA affairs. Many AAA games have an element of microtransactions, season passes, DLC - the lot. Many have different versions at launch that give you more or less.
Then you add into the mix that publisher revenues have been on the up and up because of the above then you realise this ISN'T a case games costing more so they have to charge a bit more but that they want to cut costs and increase profit.
With every new release and hype, the decision is whether splashing out day one, knowing I am paying more is worthwhile. With TLOU2, loved the first game, didn't want it spoiled, I ordered and played day one. Ultimately, I have been lucky to have income that allows me to buy a few release day games a year. With this price rise and the fact that I paid over £120 for two launch games on PS5, I'll just wait. Sackboy looks great but is £60... we all know that in 6 months it will be half that. In a year, it will be under £20. So in my mind, the trade off doesn't work.
I also hate the cost versus time element. Technically, going to the pub with mates is far more costly by time than gaming. More so even than going to the cinema. Doesn't mean the experience isn't worthwhile.
Re: PS5 Lets You Actually Keep Up with Gaming Podcasts
Oh wow - so anyone can listen to my podcast and then use the gameplay to actually keep them awake during it? Sounds like what we needed.
Re: Viral PS5 Tweet Leaves Controller Packaging Torn to Shreds
Why is no one getting worried that it was actually a REALLY LARGE MOUSE OR RAT?
Re: Ghost of Tsushima Sales Exceed Five Million in Just Four Months
Great news for fans of single player games - a good story and polished game can still sell well!
Re: Round Up: The Pathless Reviews Reveal Another Winner in PS5's Launch Lineup
It is also coming to Apple Arcade tomorrow I think so may give it a whirl there!
Re: PS5 Review - The Future of PlayStation
Nice review - very balanced. I think my only qualm at the moment is the HDD space - the 1TB does my just fine on my PS4 Pro but what is there is quite small. Still, as someone who typically plays one game at a time, I'll just wait till the prices come down on SSD. However, that is quite clear in the review. I am looking forward to trying the haptic controller very much!
Re: Here's How Assassin's Creed Valhalla Handles Microtransactions
I mean you say hidden but Odyssey was grindy as hell to encourage paying for upgrades. Good game but you know why it was sooooo huge.
Re: Demon's Souls PS5 Has More Than a Whopping 180 Game Help Videos
@nessisonett Comment of the week!!!
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 348
@AK4tywill The games are really solid and more so when you realise they are PSP games. They crammed a lot in and yep, I liked The Order too - it had flaws but also lots of potential.
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 348
Hmm if I get a chance, will finally try and finish off Chains of Olympus on PS3 and then continue the rather excellent Creaks!
Re: Ubisoft Connect Detailed, Replaces Ubisoft Club, Uplay, and Other Services
@hi_drnick Ah thank you!
Re: Ubisoft Connect Detailed, Replaces Ubisoft Club, Uplay, and Other Services
Oooh does it have a new HR system?
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 346
Been pulled into Super Hot:Mind Control Delete so will finish that off and maybe some more Star Wars Squadrons. Also chop away at GOW:Chains of Olympus on PS3!
Re: Bethesda Games Are Looking Increasingly Unlikely on PS5
Look MS have a service to sell and you need a catalogue of games to sell that service. Anyone that didn’t think there would be an element of exclusivity with such a huge purchase is a little naive. Bethesda have recognisable brand which is why and would want them. It sucks for us PS gamers and yes it is hypocritical but big business.
Re: You Can Use Remote Play to Stream PS4 Games to Your PS5
I use remote play for PS4 on my phone and iPad a lot so more options are always good.
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 345
Ooooh more Hades, possibly more Chains of Olympus on PS3 and maybe start Yooka Laylee and the Impossible lair if it turns up today as saw it cheap. May also need to play Robinson: The Journey in PSVR since it is one of the few games not compatible with PS5!
Re: Sony Launching New PS Store on Web and Mobile This Month
@mookysam 100% this - there are some games you cannot actually search and find on the PS Vita store. I can only find them on the webstore. Such as VA-11 etc.
Re: PlayStation Trophy System to Be Updated Today on PS4, Also Coming to PS5
This is amazing. I hit level 18 last night and now... we’ll I will jump loads. Go me.
Re: PS5 Trophies Will Come with Progress Tracking
@Octane Ha ha - I feel a strange sense of pride. As in wow - I have spent 6 hours on Hades and barely gotten past the first room. I am wasting my life.
Re: PS5's Crazy Cooling Solution Should Make for One Quiet Console
I know an ex Sony person who has seen the console this week and says that a) it is huge and b) it is quiet.
All of which I could have told you from all the news stories so not really insider information.
Re: PS5 Trophies Will Come with Progress Tracking
@Octane Yes - this is the feature I most want. I don't know why... I just find it satisfying to know I have done a 60 hour game etc.
Re: Star Wars: Squadrons - This Might Not Be the Game You're Looking For
@LiamCroft Cool - thanks. Time to suit up.
Re: Phwoar! Here's a View of the PS5's Rear
@nessisonett Please use this gif more.
Re: Star Wars: Squadrons - This Might Not Be the Game You're Looking For
I sit soley in the camp that wants more x-wing flying in VR.
@liamcroft - on the MP, can you play any of those modes with friends or is it all with randoms? Got 2 friends that want to play this together in VR with me. Time for Carlo Spicyweiner to take the to skies.
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 344
I am playing God of War Chains of Olympus on PS3 as haven’t played the PSP games yet. Will also be playing some more Hades on PC I think.
Re: The Last of Us Day Marked with a Clutch of GIFs
I want a meme animator to be the dlc for this game.
Re: Reaction: Spider-Man PS5 Debacle Shows Sony Is Out of Touch
On the surface it is the kind of thing that publishers do all the time and arguably no one is left behind. You can play Spiderman on PS5 happily. This is a sexier edition.
The issue is really is that lots of other companies are offering it for free to entice people to buy their games in the knowledge it will work on it. So once they offer it, you look less consumer friendly.