@LogicStrikesAgain I have been saying similar (that people should vote with their wallets) for a while now.
I'm going to be a bit harsh (not to you!) and suggest that there just aren't enough people buying physical, even now with all the noise, to even significantly register.
Either that, or people have been making 'exceptions' (eg keeping their pre orders of all digital games), thinking Sony can't easily see what % of people who mostly buy physical will make exceptions...
@ButteredCrumpet There is just 1 other point I will make - more and more over recent days I have started to think that a lot of the more 'extreme reactions' we are seeing are actually just anti-Sony, from fans of other systems.
I'm NOT talking about most of those I have conversed with on this site, or some of those I haven't. I am however talking about some of the behaviour I have seen referenced in articles.
It reminds me of how some (particularly PC / Xbox fans) would post incessantly here negatively about the Pro (and to a lesser extent the basePS5) - its like they were scared of it. Admittedly, once Pro was available a few people I knew who were PC gamers, gave up with PC, and bought Pros. (The main reasons they cited were being fed up of PC compatibility issues / errors and the frequency of online cheating).
I am getting that same vibe again. I have genuinely thought that there are some trying to use this to desperately attract people away from Playstation as a system.
@Ristar24
"I'd say though that wanting to maintain an option is far from extreme by default, depending on how people choose to articulate that perspective of course."
I am 100% talking about how SOME have chosen to articulate, not the point itself.
" I also think being upfront would probably have seen off a lot of that 'extreme' speculation if ..."
No argument from me there. I was just discussing that with Mr/Ms Crumpet. I agree we shouldn't expect all details at this stage, but Sony's communication lacked answers to foreseeable questions and was pretty bad in my opinion.
As I said, I am still on the fence overall about this - I'm sad discs are going. But I will be on that fence until we know concrete info - we actually know very little at all for certain.
@ButteredCrumpet "I would also state it is a year and a half away"
That is also very true, and you are quite correct - we shouldn't expect all the details yet. I just know though that I wouldn't bother giving any details in the current 'climate'.
I do think Sony was pretty stupid in the way they dropped the news with very little additional info - most of the big questions were easily foreseeable. But then, Sony's communication / marketing has in my opinion been awful for a few years now. The example I use is the Pro announcement, without the specs / teardown (the base console had), given the intended audience. Great machine, crap communication, and a waste of Cerny.
The trouble is that some people are coming to all sorts of conclusions, when we literally know virtually nothing.
Take a point I was discussing earlier, the resale market. We know in all likelihood this will be over, although it is not certain there won't be some way to trade in digital, it's unlikely imo. But the biggest gainers I see here are the devs, not Sony.
We don't even know there wont be an optional disc drive for PS6 - for PS4/5 collections. People are assuming this, but I want to hear it from Sony before I make that conclusion.
One thing I am reasonably sure of, given how on the ball Sony's legal team were with the social media ban for children (acting before the announcement), is that their legal team will be all over any of their plans.
@Ristar24 That is totally your choice, however in regards to:
"Appears to me that centralising profit and locking people into their store is the driving force here."
That is one thing we know very little about, and is probably the least likely negative here. Other retailers, by law, have to have the ability to sell games - Sony have already said about retailers selling digital codes. We just don't have the details yet. The only exception to this may be their games, as they likely can sell them where they like, and exclusive to their store.
Maybe once some of the more 'extreme voices' have calmed, Sony might start talking about this.
@ShadowRJ Games probably were going to rise to £80 soon. Maybe this helps put that back by getting more money into devs hands rather than the resale market, and removing some of the manufacturing/ shipping costs associated with discs.
I take your point: " but I can't imagine any business not going "hey, Rockstar are charging £80 for GTA 6. Why aren't we doing that." ".
But I'm sorry, I cannot see how Physical discs sold by retailers reduces the risk of this over Digital codes sold by retailers.
@ShadowRJ There will be an alternative market - Sony have already said about digital codes sold by retailers (they need to detail this better though). If there wasn't an alternative there would be a monopoly, and Sony wouldn't be allowed that, and they are well aware of this.
If games can't be resold, it means that those gamers will likely be more careful when purchasing - which is the enemy of devs looking to fix after launch.
@Ristar24
I'm still on the fence about this overall, but (to me) a big positive of physical games disappearing is the loss of the 2nd hand / resale market.
It's not just Sony who miss out when games are resold rather than purchased new, its the dev teams, and a lot of developers are struggling at the moment.
Removing this 2nd hand market may potentially help delay the rise to £80 for full price games.
It might also help persuade devs to ensure their games launch in a complete / polished state - as I'm sure more customers will be being careful when buying games they can't resell.
@DennisReynolds "People forget Sony have the data of every single PS account"
It would not surprise me in the slightest if Sony knew exactly what % of those who normally buy Physical, will make exceptions, and for example pre-order GTA6.
@Swirly Fair enough - it was worth a try as I think there are a lot of people who have mobile on contract who don't realise nearly all the fuss can easily be bypassed.
@ButteredCrumpet @Swirly When I did my age verification I did it differently. I did it through a new setting on the console itself (which has now disappeared after I did it - I think it was in the account section).
I chose to go the phone route, and after checking my number (which they already had), they sent a number via txt to my mobile to confirm on screen on the PS5, and that was it - no face scan or anything else.
I'm in the UK, and have a monthly contract for txt/msg/data only (not device). I assume/guess it works by them checking with the mobile operator - bearing in mind to have a contract in your name (matching the PSN account) you have to be 18+ by law.
@LowDefAl Taking your analogy, I think they are changing their minds each time after the stone mason has already begun. They started off with a decent block of stone - now they are down to a pebble!
I'm all for people voting with their wallet - if physical supporters want Sony to take notice, and there are indeed enough of them, they need to not buy any AAA / AA game except full physical (without exception), and see if this affects sales enough to give Sony something to think about.
But this ridiculous harassment online is going too far, and its 'scartershot' approach, which now seems to accept collateral damage is not doing this 'cause' any favours. I'm no longer convinced a large proportion complaining aren't just other systems fanboys.
If this carries on, I wonder if Sony will bring forwards their plans and stop physical copies (much) earlier than planned.
@Mostik "With arms that big it must have been some accident!"
Actually, in my experience, its perfectly normal to see what looks like very little, cause a major injury like this. Flexibility in the muscles can help, but larger muscles don't always help.
One of the biggest concerns - and I am certainly not saying it is the case here - is if someone only works on limited muscles in order to improve looks etc, as other muscles / joints can be put under greater strain if not equally developed.
Just as an odd anecdote, when I used to buy disc based games, it was usually from dedicated games stores.
The reason I stopped buying from these stores was because (with the exception of Pre-orders) they started taking the discs out of the boxes, and storing them in cupboards / draws. Some of them were so badly stored the discs looked like they were 2nd hand so I refused to buy them at full price.
@get2sammyb Scattershot hate is wrong, but a sad consequence of things like social media. I do not even have a twitter(X) account.
You guys have been very much creating articles in support of Physical (if I am being honest, maybe a tiny bit too much - but that is just an opinion). There is no way this 'protest' should be taking aim at yourselves in any way.
I am all for (legal & moral obviously) targeted action ie not buying digital only games (AAA or AA), including those where only part of the code on the disc. However this scattershot hate by some is not appropriate, and they are doing their 'cause' no favours.
Targeting (by not buying) digital only games, or games which cannot be played from the disc because they need a massive download - that seems fair, and the right way to protest - voting with your wallet.
Though indies and very small devs who never release physical versions (because of their size) should not be targeted.
But the messaging has got to be correct...
If the message amounts to little more than 'buy digital on PC etc, but not on PS5', then they are going to lose support very quickly. The message has to be "No Physical, No buy" or similar.
Similarly, if Sony post about a game that has proper physical versions, then the users should buy and promote the physical version.
@DennisReynolds "and people think MS will stay physical"
100% agree with you. This just seems like another example of Xbox's wish to go full digital.
For as much as I am on the fence about Sony stopping supporting Physical, I am fully against what Xbox have done here. At least Sony have been honest - a disk without the full game on it feels just wrong to me, and it feels like we see this a lot from Xbox.
Then you have the Series S which I don't think has an option to add a drive, Gamepass, and even the XBox One announcement (yes, they back peddled but that doesn't mean it is not relevant). I'm sure there are more that I can't remember too.
@Alpha_Pulse I think what I'm trying to get at is that I see the current protesting, petitions, polls etc as somewhat pointless.
As I said in a previous post, those saying they are going to abandon PS when PS6 releases are, in the most part, just 'kicking the can down the road'. The actual number who do this will likely be overall fairly small - my main reasoning being that the alternatives will be Digital.
Surely the best thing to do for those upset by Sony's decision, which some believe is far more than the 1 in 5 users that the data would suggest, is to take action now. The only real action people CAN take is refusal to purchase.
You do have a point that these (in the eyes of many) 'fake' physical games may add into basic physical sales data. However, it would surprise me immensely if Sony don't do deeper analysis than that. In fact, it would very much surprise me if Sony didn't know what % of users who regularly buy Physical, will also buy Digital.
@For-Kier I do think a boycott (Now) of all digital, or incomplete games on discs, stands more of a chance.
Sony will likely be watching at the moment.
We keep being told that there are more than just 1 in 5 people upset with this, for various reasons.
It is a like for like boycott, which in my opinion are always more likely to work.
The problem is, people need to miss out - exception making will just be seen as as confirmation that people will accept and buy digital.
Threats to not buy PS6 in 2028 (probably), and move to PC - Yeah, we agree. I don't see this being a significant number, particularly given the time, and the fact the alternatives are all / mostly digital. It feels like 'kicking the can down the road' to me.
@Oram77 Your not wrong - we all make mistakes! Though I did catch up with a few that have been remastered since.
The exclusives situation was one of the major reasons why I moved back to PlayStation for PS4, along with not trusting Xbox and their 'vision' of consoles future (the XBone announcement), and the quality of their hardware.
@Anthony_Daniels Actually, I'm completely for that stance (not buying).
I'm on the fence about Sony's plans to stop supporting Physical. However, for people who are in any way upset with Sony's decision, by far the best way to send a message to them is to (without exception) not buy a single game that is not complete on the disc (including those that are digital only).
Threats about not buying PS6, 2 years away are fairly meaningless at this point.
@Oram77 Having had a 360 in the PS3 gen, I never played 1 or 2, but really enjoyed Second Son and its DLC / standalone expansion (I can't remember which it was) on PS4.
To me, either would be just as good. Either a full remaster of 1 and 2, or a new entry would be excellent.
@ButteredCrumpet @LogicStrikesAgain I can see both good and bad points about Sony stopping support for Physical, and I think I must have added a like against nearly every comment you both have added here, because I agree with nearly all of what you have said. NB I think you are quite correct in what you say regarding the legal position of ownership of Physical.
I'm on the fence, wanting to hear what Sony has planned for improvements to Digital, but I don't think they will talk until people are ready to listen.
I have bigger issues now with how this is all playing out however, and first let me say this isn't directed at all physical supporters, only a few.
1) For the benefit of Mr/Ms Crumpet (because your account is new) game framerates are very important to me. Anything less than a stable 60fps is literally unplayable to me. I am also very strongly of the belief that a stable 60fps can be achieved on any game - devs just need to keep their ambitions in check. How is this relevant? On odd articles here, some people have given a pass to certain devs, purely on the basis of 'the majority don't care about framerates' (something that I do not believe, and even if partially true, peoples expectations are clearly increasing in this area). Yet here we are with Physical - with a clearly minority and downtrending support, and yet you see the reactions you do. And sometimes, I seem to think from some of the same people who didn't care that a proportion of gamers CAN'T play at less than 60fps, and maybe from some that were advocating a majority rules then, but not not now. I don't think I am being bitter, but it does irk me.
2) We are seeing more and more of the type of comment of 'you must be a shill (/ whatever else they come up with)' not to be up in arms about losing discs, when there are clear arguments in this case.
3) Going back to an earlier point, if a game isn't stable 60fps I do not buy it - simple. How many physical supporters have made 'exceptions' for games like GTA6 for example, and how many have/haven't cancelled pre-orders. People are threatening to boycott PS6 - maybe 2 years away - yet you see very few calls to boycott far more appropriate and much sooner released digital only games.
4) This may be a personal one, and it is rare, but those who demand a disc drive as standard. I do support the option of a disc drive, but not everyone should have to pay for it.
5) Why should I feel sorry for retailers who have been selling all digital consoles? (With the Pro they could have only sold bundles of console+drive). This was easily foreseeable in the short term.
Sony are clearly banking on a significant chunk of people, who normally buy Physical, buying digital if that is the only option - whether this is via their store, or via digital codes.
I suspect they already have proof of this with the unit sales of digital only games, and that people are already making 'exceptions'.
@Dogbreath Now you mention it, I remember that old PS1 disc swap being reported - never tried it myself because all my games were legit.
But (before your original post) I had never considered the deterrent link between digital and permanent bans / loss of library if Sony detect modded consoles.
Should the devs be held responsible for the apparent ease at which hacking is being committed? - again, in my opinion, yes.
But, does that give people the right to hack this game? - No, absolutely not.
This is not something that should be applauded - quoting yourself: "Fantastic work, pirates! Keep it up!" , and certainly not because a different company wants to remove a long downtrending physical media, whether that decision upsets you or not.
To give an analogy: If a car owner makes it easier to steal a car, say by leaving the doors unlocked, that doesn't mean someone is allowed to steal it (or should be cheered on for doing so).
@IllusiveMan Thats the way I read it - ie Digital codes available for all publishers that want them, in order to sell in shops etc. They have until 2028 to detail all this (I don't think we will see PS6 before), so I expect thar they will wait until they can announce their plans without the discourse turning into 'we want discs'.
@IllusiveMan Part of their announcement included a small part about other sellers being able to sell codes or something - I forget the exact wording. I remember thinking at the time that this sounded similar to the GTA6 code in a box, or maybe just a card with a code on it like a wallet top up.
As far as I understand it, this would be perfectly sufficient for legal purposes as long as the retailer is able to undercut Sony by reducing their own profit margin.
It is like for like - Sony and Retailers both have access to sell a digital licence for the game.
"This could be a crucial detail that will get it off the hook with regulators."
It would be incredibly surprising if Sony doesn't have plans / robust defence in place for all of this. Just look at how 'on the ball' they were regarding the UK social media ban for children- as I remember it they were already stsrted age verification before it was announced!
@WolfyTn "The initial p!ssed offness may have ‘died down’ a little bit but just like a ### who cheats on you - it’s gonna be heavily on everyone’s mind and it’ll never be the same again"
It hasn't made a bit of difference to how I or a lot of others view Sony.
It was clear this was coming - Physical has been downtrending for years, the Pro not having a Disc drive version, etc. On the other side, I knew their marketing / communication was crap before this announcement - the not answering foreseeable issues was bad, but expected.
How Sony proceed from here in terms of their digital policies is what is important to me.
@zebric21 I agree that would be a good gesture, but if the headlines and loud minority just respond with "this isn't what we want, we want discs", what is the point for them at this time.
@ShadowRJ "Now this situation isn’t really like the physical games issue for a variety of reasons, but it’s stories like these which help fuel the protestors into believing they can make a difference"
I more or less agree with you. I will say now that I think there is very little chance of reversing Sony's decision on physical, but that changes to Sony's digital store / rules etc are very possible (and may even already be planned by Sony).
Going back to what you said, personally I think there is a very big difference here though.
In this case (and I am only going on the article above), the backlash against this game - as we have seen in the past - appears to have scared EA. The games release is imminent too. This is a targeted boycott, aimed at the very thing that has caused the anger, and missing 1 game is easy to do for users.
Online petitions / social media anger does not concern Sony - they know it will fade, and people saying they will jump ship next gen is a far distance away (and makes little real sense as the alternatives are digital only). Moving platform, given the 'alternatives' is not going to suit many either.
In my opinion, the only thing that could be boycotted to make Sony take notice, that is close enough in time and (targeted enough) in subject matter is digital-only AAA games. If, for instance, Sony saw that their announcement had lead to a significant downturn in pre-orders, or worse, significant cancellations of pre-orders for GTA6, then they would take serious notice. I use the example of GTA6 because of the hype and reported pre-order numbers, and because its digital only nature has been very well reported (ie it is the most high profile). If they don't see a difference here, it will send the message to Sony that if there is no physical alternative, people will buy digital instead.
@Bizzy
I can assure you, very little is 'too complicated' for me, and if you knew me you would know that to be true (I don't know if you were intending to be rude, but thats the way it appears) - the only question is, do I want that sort of unnecessary hassle, nonsense, and time wasting, in pursuit of a hobby.
(Edit: reply to a comment (to me) I now see has been deleted)
I have considered PC in the past for higher framerates - something it most certainly can give, if I spend enough.
But, if I wanted physical discs of new releases, then that is something it doesn't give, and moving to PC for this reason would make me very unhappy.
A number of people I know, have moved from PC to PS5 (Pro) recently, due to the amount of time they were wasting on compatibility / driver / update issues (1 had to do a FULL wipe and reinstall of his PC from scratch twice, and still had issues!) ; and also what they saw as prolific online cheating.
None of them note that they are spending more on PS5 - its more or less the same according to them, just MUCH less hassle.
I have also been warned off PC by well meaning PC gamers on this site, for exactly the same reasons.
@Vertere The odd thing here is that I believe Sony will very likely have decent plans in place. They certainly appear (from how fast they reacted to the UK social media ban for children, before it was announced) to have a very proactive legal department who will be well on top of potential issues.
It is, in my opinion, just a case of bad communication / marketing (I agree they should have offered something like a FAQ with the announcement).
Unfortunately, the behaviour of some now means that Sony need to wait before revealing more - they should have predicted this, but what would be the point in announcing even sweeping and positive changes to their digital system at the moment.
@CheesyOatcake You make a lot of good points. The trouble is that there are 3 issues here that need separating:
1) Some are highly upset about not having the option to buy Physical discs, but I very much doubt Sony will change their mind. Physical purchases have been downtrending for years, and they know that a certain % of gamers who buy Physical will buy digital if that is the only option.
We do not know that a optional disc drive for PS6 is off the table - its all speculation. I would prefer Sony to clarify this, and arrangements for Physical back catalogues.
What we do know is that Sony's main competition is either all digital, or most likely to be by next gen. All the 'I will move to PC' sounds like a protest, not a plan, given its all digital status.
2) Digital 'ownership' and PS store. This is the area that people and Sony should now be focusing on. I want to know if they intend to upgrade their policies around things like refunds etc in light of physical not being supported.
3) PS6 Price. Somehow this has got mixed in. Nobody in their right mind should have expected the PS6 to ship with a disc drive - (before their announcement I would have expected an optional drive similar to PS5 Pro) - so I don't know how Sony stopping physical has any bearing on the price of PS6. I also think that PS6 will sell just fine given the expected price - Sony are never going to expect PS5 type pick up, and devs are going to have to support PS5 for a long time. As long as technically it is a massive upgrade, I will still be there day 1.
The big problem here is that the conversation keeps revolving back to point 1 (Physical), which to my mind has already been resolved, with the exception of whether PS6 will have an optional drive. Sony really need to talk about about point 2 (Digital), but a loud minority are hostile. Sony have been generally very bad at communication / marketing this generation in my opinion (eg Pro announcement with no real specs!) , but is this the right environment for them to be talking, and will people listen.
@LogicStrikesAgain Good point - your right, I remember reading something like Doom was one of the games series they were going to focus on after their (Xbox's) implosion. It was probably some leaker with a bad source again.
At this rate there is going to be very little left of Xbox game studios outside of COD.
I wasn't the greatest fan of what they did with the series after Doom 2016 (which I thought was fantastic btw), but this was a talented team. Now it seems that they have fallen victim to Xbox's hubris and mismanagement.
The sad thing is that a lot of people predicted this when Xbox went on its ridiculous buying sprees.
Hopefully these devs all find good work elsewhere, and Xbox are prevented from making any more purchases.
(And yes, I know others, not Xbox, have seen downsizing / closing, but this is on a whole different scale).
@get2sammyb "I interpret this as people are angry."
Completely agree. Sadly, this just looks like 'lashing out' to me.
If I were Sony, the only thing I would be paying attention to at the moment is pre-order / purchase numbers of digital only games, and whether these have been affected in any noticeable way.
In the last year or so a few of my friends/ family who were PC gamers moved over to PlayStation - PS5 Pro in all cases I think.
They had just got so fed up with compatibility issues and wasting time messing about with getting things working properly, and also sick of all the cheating in online games.
Not making light of the current Xbox implosion at the moment, but at this rate Bethesda itself will be scaled down or spun off before this game is ready.
Even IF it does see the light of day, I have zero faith it won't be a bug ridden, performance nightmare.
Comments 3,883
Re: 'They May As Well Eliminate the Hardware Too': Japanese Dev Says Sony 'Doesn't Understand' the Feelings of Fans
@LogicStrikesAgain
I have been saying similar (that people should vote with their wallets) for a while now.
I'm going to be a bit harsh (not to you!) and suggest that there just aren't enough people buying physical, even now with all the noise, to even significantly register.
Either that, or people have been making 'exceptions' (eg keeping their pre orders of all digital games), thinking Sony can't easily see what % of people who mostly buy physical will make exceptions...
Re: 'They May As Well Eliminate the Hardware Too': Japanese Dev Says Sony 'Doesn't Understand' the Feelings of Fans
People will still be able to get the digital code card / box signed, display it or decorate their rooms with them.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@ButteredCrumpet
There is just 1 other point I will make - more and more over recent days I have started to think that a lot of the more 'extreme reactions' we are seeing are actually just anti-Sony, from fans of other systems.
I'm NOT talking about most of those I have conversed with on this site, or some of those I haven't. I am however talking about some of the behaviour I have seen referenced in articles.
It reminds me of how some (particularly PC / Xbox fans) would post incessantly here negatively about the Pro (and to a lesser extent the basePS5) - its like they were scared of it.
Admittedly, once Pro was available a few people I knew who were PC gamers, gave up with PC, and bought Pros. (The main reasons they cited were being fed up of PC compatibility issues / errors and the frequency of online cheating).
I am getting that same vibe again. I have genuinely thought that there are some trying to use this to desperately attract people away from Playstation as a system.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Ristar24
"I'd say though that wanting to maintain an option is far from extreme by default, depending on how people choose to articulate that perspective of course."
I am 100% talking about how SOME have chosen to articulate, not the point itself.
" I also think being upfront would probably have seen off a lot of that 'extreme' speculation if ..."
No argument from me there. I was just discussing that with Mr/Ms Crumpet. I agree we shouldn't expect all details at this stage, but Sony's communication lacked answers to foreseeable questions and was pretty bad in my opinion.
As I said, I am still on the fence overall about this - I'm sad discs are going. But I will be on that fence until we know concrete info - we actually know very little at all for certain.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@ButteredCrumpet
"I would also state it is a year and a half away"
That is also very true, and you are quite correct - we shouldn't expect all the details yet. I just know though that I wouldn't bother giving any details in the current 'climate'.
I do think Sony was pretty stupid in the way they dropped the news with very little additional info - most of the big questions were easily foreseeable.
But then, Sony's communication / marketing has in my opinion been awful for a few years now.
The example I use is the Pro announcement, without the specs / teardown (the base console had), given the intended audience. Great machine, crap communication, and a waste of Cerny.
The trouble is that some people are coming to all sorts of conclusions, when we literally know virtually nothing.
Take a point I was discussing earlier, the resale market. We know in all likelihood this will be over, although it is not certain there won't be some way to trade in digital, it's unlikely imo. But the biggest gainers I see here are the devs, not Sony.
We don't even know there wont be an optional disc drive for PS6 - for PS4/5 collections. People are assuming this, but I want to hear it from Sony before I make that conclusion.
One thing I am reasonably sure of, given how on the ball Sony's legal team were with the social media ban for children (acting before the announcement), is that their legal team will be all over any of their plans.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Ristar24
That is totally your choice, however in regards to:
"Appears to me that centralising profit and locking people into their store is the driving force here."
That is one thing we know very little about, and is probably the least likely negative here.
Other retailers, by law, have to have the ability to sell games - Sony have already said about retailers selling digital codes. We just don't have the details yet.
The only exception to this may be their games, as they likely can sell them where they like, and exclusive to their store.
Maybe once some of the more 'extreme voices' have calmed, Sony might start talking about this.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@ShadowRJ
Games probably were going to rise to £80 soon.
Maybe this helps put that back by getting more money into devs hands rather than the resale market, and removing some of the manufacturing/ shipping costs associated with discs.
I take your point: " but I can't imagine any business not going "hey, Rockstar are charging £80 for GTA 6. Why aren't we doing that." ".
But I'm sorry, I cannot see how Physical discs sold by retailers reduces the risk of this over Digital codes sold by retailers.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@ShadowRJ
There will be an alternative market - Sony have already said about digital codes sold by retailers (they need to detail this better though). If there wasn't an alternative there would be a monopoly, and Sony wouldn't be allowed that, and they are well aware of this.
If games can't be resold, it means that those gamers will likely be more careful when purchasing - which is the enemy of devs looking to fix after launch.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Zuljaras
In regards your comment about "release now, fix later"
You get that problem at the moment with physical games as well. The version on the disc still needs a day 1 patch / future patches.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Ristar24
I'm still on the fence about this overall, but (to me) a big positive of physical games disappearing is the loss of the 2nd hand / resale market.
It's not just Sony who miss out when games are resold rather than purchased new, its the dev teams, and a lot of developers are struggling at the moment.
Removing this 2nd hand market may potentially help delay the rise to £80 for full price games.
It might also help persuade devs to ensure their games launch in a complete / polished state - as I'm sure more customers will be being careful when buying games they can't resell.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@DennisReynolds
"People forget Sony have the data of every single PS account"
It would not surprise me in the slightest if Sony knew exactly what % of those who normally buy Physical, will make exceptions, and for example pre-order GTA6.
Re: Insomniac's Spider-Man Games 'a Great Inspiration' for Brand New Day, Says Director
Both SM MM and SM2 rank in my top 10 games this gen.
Can't wait to see what they make of Wolverine.
Re: 'It Isn't Something Carved in Stone': Xbox Still Unclear on Future PS5 Ports
@Swirly
Fair enough - it was worth a try as I think there are a lot of people who have mobile on contract who don't realise nearly all the fuss can easily be bypassed.
Re: 'It Isn't Something Carved in Stone': Xbox Still Unclear on Future PS5 Ports
@ButteredCrumpet @Swirly
When I did my age verification I did it differently.
I did it through a new setting on the console itself (which has now disappeared after I did it - I think it was in the account section).
I chose to go the phone route, and after checking my number (which they already had), they sent a number via txt to my mobile to confirm on screen on the PS5, and that was it - no face scan or anything else.
I'm in the UK, and have a monthly contract for txt/msg/data only (not device). I assume/guess it works by them checking with the mobile operator - bearing in mind to have a contract in your name (matching the PSN account) you have to be 18+ by law.
Re: 'It Isn't Something Carved in Stone': Xbox Still Unclear on Future PS5 Ports
@LowDefAl
Taking your analogy, I think they are changing their minds each time after the stone mason has already begun.
They started off with a decent block of stone - now they are down to a pebble!
Re: 'It Isn't Something Carved in Stone': Xbox Still Unclear on Future PS5 Ports
I have a cunning plan!
(And it sounds like they are using one of Baldricks plans)
Re: Indie Devs Unfairly Attacked Over Sony Decision to Stop Making Discs
I'm all for people voting with their wallet - if physical supporters want Sony to take notice, and there are indeed enough of them, they need to not buy any AAA / AA game except full physical (without exception), and see if this affects sales enough to give Sony something to think about.
But this ridiculous harassment online is going too far, and its 'scartershot' approach, which now seems to accept collateral damage is not doing this 'cause' any favours. I'm no longer convinced a large proportion complaining aren't just other systems fanboys.
If this carries on, I wonder if Sony will bring forwards their plans and stop physical copies (much) earlier than planned.
Re: God of War Show's Kratos to Be Recast After Ryan Hurst Suffers Injury During Filming
@Mostik
"With arms that big it must have been some accident!"
Actually, in my experience, its perfectly normal to see what looks like very little, cause a major injury like this.
Flexibility in the muscles can help, but larger muscles don't always help.
One of the biggest concerns - and I am certainly not saying it is the case here - is if someone only works on limited muscles in order to improve looks etc, as other muscles / joints can be put under greater strain if not equally developed.
Re: 'It's Totally, Totally Irrelevant': GameStop Boss Unfazed by Sony's Physical Discs Decision
Just as an odd anecdote, when I used to buy disc based games, it was usually from dedicated games stores.
The reason I stopped buying from these stores was because (with the exception of Pre-orders) they started taking the discs out of the boxes, and storing them in cupboards / draws.
Some of them were so badly stored the discs looked like they were 2nd hand so I refused to buy them at full price.
Re: Irate PlayStation Fans Want You to Buy Games Anywhere But PS5
@get2sammyb
Scattershot hate is wrong, but a sad consequence of things like social media. I do not even have a twitter(X) account.
You guys have been very much creating articles in support of Physical (if I am being honest, maybe a tiny bit too much - but that is just an opinion). There is no way this 'protest' should be taking aim at yourselves in any way.
I am all for (legal & moral obviously) targeted action ie not buying digital only games (AAA or AA), including those where only part of the code on the disc.
However this scattershot hate by some is not appropriate, and they are doing their 'cause' no favours.
Re: Irate PlayStation Fans Want You to Buy Games Anywhere But PS5
Sorry, this feels a bit pathetic to me.
Targeting (by not buying) digital only games, or games which cannot be played from the disc because they need a massive download - that seems fair, and the right way to protest - voting with your wallet.
Though indies and very small devs who never release physical versions (because of their size) should not be targeted.
But the messaging has got to be correct...
If the message amounts to little more than 'buy digital on PC etc, but not on PS5', then they are going to lose support very quickly. The message has to be "No Physical, No buy" or similar.
Similarly, if Sony post about a game that has proper physical versions, then the users should buy and promote the physical version.
Re: Halo's Physical PS5 Disc Won't Play without a Download
@DennisReynolds
"and people think MS will stay physical"
100% agree with you.
This just seems like another example of Xbox's wish to go full digital.
For as much as I am on the fence about Sony stopping supporting Physical, I am fully against what Xbox have done here. At least Sony have been honest - a disk without the full game on it feels just wrong to me, and it feels like we see this a lot from Xbox.
Then you have the Series S which I don't think has an option to add a drive, Gamepass, and even the XBox One announcement (yes, they back peddled but that doesn't mean it is not relevant). I'm sure there are more that I can't remember too.
Re: Halo's Physical PS5 Disc Won't Play without a Download
@Alpha_Pulse
I think what I'm trying to get at is that I see the current protesting, petitions, polls etc as somewhat pointless.
As I said in a previous post, those saying they are going to abandon PS when PS6 releases are, in the most part, just 'kicking the can down the road'. The actual number who do this will likely be overall fairly small - my main reasoning being that the alternatives will be Digital.
Surely the best thing to do for those upset by Sony's decision, which some believe is far more than the 1 in 5 users that the data would suggest, is to take action now. The only real action people CAN take is refusal to purchase.
You do have a point that these (in the eyes of many) 'fake' physical games may add into basic physical sales data. However, it would surprise me immensely if Sony don't do deeper analysis than that. In fact, it would very much surprise me if Sony didn't know what % of users who regularly buy Physical, will also buy Digital.
Re: Halo's Physical PS5 Disc Won't Play without a Download
@For-Kier
I do think a boycott (Now) of all digital, or incomplete games on discs, stands more of a chance.
The problem is, people need to miss out - exception making will just be seen as as confirmation that people will accept and buy digital.
Threats to not buy PS6 in 2028 (probably), and move to PC - Yeah, we agree. I don't see this being a significant number, particularly given the time, and the fact the alternatives are all / mostly digital.
It feels like 'kicking the can down the road' to me.
Re: PS3's inFAMOUS 2 Sees an Explosion of New Players with Platinum About to Become Unobtainable
@Oram77
Your not wrong - we all make mistakes! Though I did catch up with a few that have been remastered since.
The exclusives situation was one of the major reasons why I moved back to PlayStation for PS4, along with not trusting Xbox and their 'vision' of consoles future (the XBone announcement), and the quality of their hardware.
Re: Halo's Physical PS5 Disc Won't Play without a Download
@Anthony_Daniels
Actually, I'm completely for that stance (not buying).
I'm on the fence about Sony's plans to stop supporting Physical.
However, for people who are in any way upset with Sony's decision, by far the best way to send a message to them is to (without exception) not buy a single game that is not complete on the disc (including those that are digital only).
Threats about not buying PS6, 2 years away are fairly meaningless at this point.
Re: PS3's inFAMOUS 2 Sees an Explosion of New Players with Platinum About to Become Unobtainable
@Oram77
Having had a 360 in the PS3 gen, I never played 1 or 2, but really enjoyed Second Son and its DLC / standalone expansion (I can't remember which it was) on PS4.
To me, either would be just as good. Either a full remaster of 1 and 2, or a new entry would be excellent.
Re: 'Millions of Gamers Value True Ownership': PS5, PS4 Represented Half of All UK Physical Game Revenue in 2025
@ButteredCrumpet @LogicStrikesAgain
I can see both good and bad points about Sony stopping support for Physical, and I think I must have added a like against nearly every comment you both have added here, because I agree with nearly all of what you have said. NB I think you are quite correct in what you say regarding the legal position of ownership of Physical.
I'm on the fence, wanting to hear what Sony has planned for improvements to Digital, but I don't think they will talk until people are ready to listen.
I have bigger issues now with how this is all playing out however, and first let me say this isn't directed at all physical supporters, only a few.
1) For the benefit of Mr/Ms Crumpet (because your account is new) game framerates are very important to me. Anything less than a stable 60fps is literally unplayable to me. I am also very strongly of the belief that a stable 60fps can be achieved on any game - devs just need to keep their ambitions in check.
How is this relevant? On odd articles here, some people have given a pass to certain devs, purely on the basis of 'the majority don't care about framerates' (something that I do not believe, and even if partially true, peoples expectations are clearly increasing in this area).
Yet here we are with Physical - with a clearly minority and downtrending support, and yet you see the reactions you do. And sometimes, I seem to think from some of the same people who didn't care that a proportion of gamers CAN'T play at less than 60fps, and maybe from some that were advocating a majority rules then, but not not now.
I don't think I am being bitter, but it does irk me.
2) We are seeing more and more of the type of comment of 'you must be a shill (/ whatever else they come up with)' not to be up in arms about losing discs, when there are clear arguments in this case.
3) Going back to an earlier point, if a game isn't stable 60fps I do not buy it - simple. How many physical supporters have made 'exceptions' for games like GTA6 for example, and how many have/haven't cancelled pre-orders. People are threatening to boycott PS6 - maybe 2 years away - yet you see very few calls to boycott far more appropriate and much sooner released digital only games.
4) This may be a personal one, and it is rare, but those who demand a disc drive as standard. I do support the option of a disc drive, but not everyone should have to pay for it.
5) Why should I feel sorry for retailers who have been selling all digital consoles? (With the Pro they could have only sold bundles of console+drive). This was easily foreseeable in the short term.
6) I have droned on long enough lol
Re: 'Millions of Gamers Value True Ownership': PS5, PS4 Represented Half of All UK Physical Game Revenue in 2025
Sony are clearly banking on a significant chunk of people, who normally buy Physical, buying digital if that is the only option - whether this is via their store, or via digital codes.
I suspect they already have proof of this with the unit sales of digital only games, and that people are already making 'exceptions'.
Re: Sony's Social Media Still Toxic Two Weeks After PS5 Discs Debacle
All further making me pleased I don't have mainstream social media accounts.
Re: PS5's Call of Duty: Black Ops Port Reportedly Riddled with Hackers
@Dogbreath
Now you mention it, I remember that old PS1 disc swap being reported - never tried it myself because all my games were legit.
But (before your original post) I had never considered the deterrent link between digital and permanent bans / loss of library if Sony detect modded consoles.
Re: PS5's Call of Duty: Black Ops Port Reportedly Riddled with Hackers
@Dogbreath
Good point "Discs are a hackers dream ..."
In a related area, and it may well be I'm wrong (I'm no expert), but don't most jailbreaks of PS5 consoles rely on the disc drive too?
Edit: just googled, and the answer is not most, but some can be committed via the use of the disc drive.
Re: PS5's Call of Duty: Black Ops Port Reportedly Riddled with Hackers
@NoPhysicalNoBuy123
Is this game too expensive? - in my opinion, yes.
Should the devs be held responsible for the apparent ease at which hacking is being committed? - again, in my opinion, yes.
But, does that give people the right to hack this game? - No, absolutely not.
This is not something that should be applauded - quoting yourself: "Fantastic work, pirates! Keep it up!" , and certainly not because a different company wants to remove a long downtrending physical media, whether that decision upsets you or not.
To give an analogy: If a car owner makes it easier to steal a car, say by leaving the doors unlocked, that doesn't mean someone is allowed to steal it (or should be cheered on for doing so).
Re: Here Come the Lawsuits! Sony's Physical Disc Debacle Likely to Keep Its Lawyers Busy
@IllusiveMan
Thats the way I read it - ie Digital codes available for all publishers that want them, in order to sell in shops etc.
They have until 2028 to detail all this (I don't think we will see PS6 before), so I expect thar they will wait until they can announce their plans without the discourse turning into 'we want discs'.
Re: Here Come the Lawsuits! Sony's Physical Disc Debacle Likely to Keep Its Lawyers Busy
@IllusiveMan
Part of their announcement included a small part about other sellers being able to sell codes or something - I forget the exact wording.
I remember thinking at the time that this sounded similar to the GTA6 code in a box, or maybe just a card with a code on it like a wallet top up.
As far as I understand it, this would be perfectly sufficient for legal purposes as long as the retailer is able to undercut Sony by reducing their own profit margin.
It is like for like - Sony and Retailers both have access to sell a digital licence for the game.
Re: Here Come the Lawsuits! Sony's Physical Disc Debacle Likely to Keep Its Lawyers Busy
"This could be a crucial detail that will get it off the hook with regulators."
It would be incredibly surprising if Sony doesn't have plans / robust defence in place for all of this.
Just look at how 'on the ball' they were regarding the UK social media ban for children- as I remember it they were already stsrted age verification before it was announced!
Re: PS5's Physical Disc Debacle Will Attract More Anger if This Xbox Rumour Is True
@WolfyTn
"The initial p!ssed offness may have ‘died down’ a little bit but just like a ### who cheats on you - it’s gonna be heavily on everyone’s mind and it’ll never be the same again"
It hasn't made a bit of difference to how I or a lot of others view Sony.
It was clear this was coming - Physical has been downtrending for years, the Pro not having a Disc drive version, etc. On the other side, I knew their marketing / communication was crap before this announcement - the not answering foreseeable issues was bad, but expected.
How Sony proceed from here in terms of their digital policies is what is important to me.
@zebric21
I agree that would be a good gesture, but if the headlines and loud minority just respond with "this isn't what we want, we want discs", what is the point for them at this time.
Re: College Football 27 to Remove Single Player Microtransactions After Fans Threatened Boycott
@CheesyOatcake
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Re: College Football 27 to Remove Single Player Microtransactions After Fans Threatened Boycott
@ShadowRJ
"Now this situation isn’t really like the physical games issue for a variety of reasons, but it’s stories like these which help fuel the protestors into believing they can make a difference"
I more or less agree with you.
I will say now that I think there is very little chance of reversing Sony's decision on physical, but that changes to Sony's digital store / rules etc are very possible (and may even already be planned by Sony).
Going back to what you said, personally I think there is a very big difference here though.
In this case (and I am only going on the article above), the backlash against this game - as we have seen in the past - appears to have scared EA. The games release is imminent too.
This is a targeted boycott, aimed at the very thing that has caused the anger, and missing 1 game is easy to do for users.
Online petitions / social media anger does not concern Sony - they know it will fade, and people saying they will jump ship next gen is a far distance away (and makes little real sense as the alternatives are digital only). Moving platform, given the 'alternatives' is not going to suit many either.
In my opinion, the only thing that could be boycotted to make Sony take notice, that is close enough in time and (targeted enough) in subject matter is digital-only AAA games.
If, for instance, Sony saw that their announcement had lead to a significant downturn in pre-orders, or worse, significant cancellations of pre-orders for GTA6, then they would take serious notice. I use the example of GTA6 because of the hype and reported pre-order numbers, and because its digital only nature has been very well reported (ie it is the most high profile).
If they don't see a difference here, it will send the message to Sony that if there is no physical alternative, people will buy digital instead.
Re: 'PS5 Has Put a Dampener on Gaming': 45% of Enthusiasts 'Seriously Considering' Leaving Sony for PC
@Bizzy
I can assure you, very little is 'too complicated' for me, and if you knew me you would know that to be true (I don't know if you were intending to be rude, but thats the way it appears) - the only question is, do I want that sort of unnecessary hassle, nonsense, and time wasting, in pursuit of a hobby.
(Edit: reply to a comment (to me) I now see has been deleted)
Re: 'PS5 Has Put a Dampener on Gaming': 45% of Enthusiasts 'Seriously Considering' Leaving Sony for PC
I have considered PC in the past for higher framerates - something it most certainly can give, if I spend enough.
But, if I wanted physical discs of new releases, then that is something it doesn't give, and moving to PC for this reason would make me very unhappy.
A number of people I know, have moved from PC to PS5 (Pro) recently, due to the amount of time they were wasting on compatibility / driver / update issues (1 had to do a FULL wipe and reinstall of his PC from scratch twice, and still had issues!) ; and also what they saw as prolific online cheating.
None of them note that they are spending more on PS5 - its more or less the same according to them, just MUCH less hassle.
I have also been warned off PC by well meaning PC gamers on this site, for exactly the same reasons.
Re: 'Sony Knows a $1,000 PS6 Won't Sell as Much': Analyst on Manufacturer's Plan to Maximise Revenue
@Vertere
The odd thing here is that I believe Sony will very likely have decent plans in place. They certainly appear (from how fast they reacted to the UK social media ban for children, before it was announced) to have a very proactive legal department who will be well on top of potential issues.
It is, in my opinion, just a case of bad communication / marketing (I agree they should have offered something like a FAQ with the announcement).
Unfortunately, the behaviour of some now means that Sony need to wait before revealing more - they should have predicted this, but what would be the point in announcing even sweeping and positive changes to their digital system at the moment.
Re: 'Sony Knows a $1,000 PS6 Won't Sell as Much': Analyst on Manufacturer's Plan to Maximise Revenue
@CheesyOatcake
You make a lot of good points.
The trouble is that there are 3 issues here that need separating:
1) Some are highly upset about not having the option to buy Physical discs, but I very much doubt Sony will change their mind.
Physical purchases have been downtrending for years, and they know that a certain % of gamers who buy Physical will buy digital if that is the only option.
We do not know that a optional disc drive for PS6 is off the table - its all speculation. I would prefer Sony to clarify this, and arrangements for Physical back catalogues.
What we do know is that Sony's main competition is either all digital, or most likely to be by next gen. All the 'I will move to PC' sounds like a protest, not a plan, given its all digital status.
2) Digital 'ownership' and PS store. This is the area that people and Sony should now be focusing on. I want to know if they intend to upgrade their policies around things like refunds etc in light of physical not being supported.
3) PS6 Price. Somehow this has got mixed in.
Nobody in their right mind should have expected the PS6 to ship with a disc drive - (before their announcement I would have expected an optional drive similar to PS5 Pro) - so I don't know how Sony stopping physical has any bearing on the price of PS6.
I also think that PS6 will sell just fine given the expected price - Sony are never going to expect PS5 type pick up, and devs are going to have to support PS5 for a long time.
As long as technically it is a massive upgrade, I will still be there day 1.
The big problem here is that the conversation keeps revolving back to point 1 (Physical), which to my mind has already been resolved, with the exception of whether PS6 will have an optional drive.
Sony really need to talk about about point 2 (Digital), but a loud minority are hostile.
Sony have been generally very bad at communication / marketing this generation in my opinion (eg Pro announcement with no real specs!) , but is this the right environment for them to be talking, and will people listen.
Re: 'PS5 Has Put a Dampener on Gaming': 45% of Enthusiasts 'Seriously Considering' Leaving Sony for PC
I suggest everyone go and watch Sir Humphrey Appleby from Yes Prime Minister (old sitcom)) explain Surveys.
(The example he used is about National Service and there are clips on YouTube).
Re: 'I'm Not Convinced There's a Viable Way Forward': DOOM Dev Relegated to 'Support Studio' Size
@LogicStrikesAgain
Good point - your right, I remember reading something like Doom was one of the games series they were going to focus on after their (Xbox's) implosion.
It was probably some leaker with a bad source again.
At this rate there is going to be very little left of Xbox game studios outside of COD.
Re: 'I'm Not Convinced There's a Viable Way Forward': DOOM Dev Relegated to 'Support Studio' Size
I wasn't the greatest fan of what they did with the series after Doom 2016 (which I thought was fantastic btw), but this was a talented team.
Now it seems that they have fallen victim to Xbox's hubris and mismanagement.
The sad thing is that a lot of people predicted this when Xbox went on its ridiculous buying sprees.
Hopefully these devs all find good work elsewhere, and Xbox are prevented from making any more purchases.
(And yes, I know others, not Xbox, have seen downsizing / closing, but this is on a whole different scale).
Re: Poll: Are You Considering Leaving PlayStation for PC?
@get2sammyb
"I interpret this as people are angry."
Completely agree. Sadly, this just looks like 'lashing out' to me.
If I were Sony, the only thing I would be paying attention to at the moment is pre-order / purchase numbers of digital only games, and whether these have been affected in any noticeable way.
Re: Poll: Are You Considering Leaving PlayStation for PC?
In the last year or so a few of my friends/ family who were PC gamers moved over to PlayStation - PS5 Pro in all cases I think.
They had just got so fed up with compatibility issues and wasting time messing about with getting things working properly, and also sick of all the cheating in online games.
Re: The Elder Scrolls 6 Is Reportedly Still Years Away from Release
@Mr-Cage
Skyrim launched only 5 and a half years (approx) after Oblivion.
Re: The Elder Scrolls 6 Is Reportedly Still Years Away from Release
Not making light of the current Xbox implosion at the moment, but at this rate Bethesda itself will be scaled down or spun off before this game is ready.
Even IF it does see the light of day, I have zero faith it won't be a bug ridden, performance nightmare.