I won't be taking Xbox seriously as a PS5 publisher until: 1) the PS5 versions of every game technically approximately match their series X versions - which a number do not. 2) their Pro enhancements show the same level of improvement other 3rd parties have shown are possible.
@PuppetMaster Such a shame - they may not have been the most technical / balanced games, but they were just good fun, with the werebeast modes adding a lot of individuality to characters. A proper remake could be just what the fighting game market needs for those uninterested in competitive play, which I just don't have the time/inclination for these days.
Demon Souls Remake was an amazing piece of work, by a clearly highly talented studio. Such a pity that their time was wasted in this fashion - we could have been seeing a proper Bloodborne remake, or something completely new launching soon.
Really hoping for a resurrection of the Bloody Roar series which were my favourite beat-em-ups of the era, except SF Alpha (particularly 3). I even preferred them to the Tekken games because they were just good fun.
@SeaDaVie "Has anyone employed by Microsoft ever answered a question directly in their entire life?"
Maybe, once upon a time, but now all they come out with is bad corporate BS.
Part of the trouble is that they are floundering so much, they have no real sense of direction. Eg we now really believe in being truly multiformat and exclusivity is bad, but some of our games will still have some timed exclusivity, and at the same time we are releasing sub-par versions of games on PS5/Pro which haven't been made to the same technical quality.
It also often sounds like they are trying to come out with a version of some corporate message babble they have heard, but can't quite remember.
The trouble is, nothing they say has any hint of credibility to it.
(But I will add that Sony haven't been immune to the whole corporate BS in the last couple of years, with the 1 notable exception of Mark Cerny).
As a publisher I half agree with him.
For the other half, and as a platform their biggest enemy is themselves.
Between stupid decisions eg the 30% profit margin expectation reported recently, and GP price hikes whilst applauding how much money they are making from GP, to lackluster technical performance of some of their games on PS5/Pro where they should be focusing all of their effort to prove they are serious about the PS market.
They just seem to be in a mess right now.
Still making my way through Ghost of Yotei.
A really well made game that seems to improve the further you get into it; and I'm actually enjoying just exploring each area and doing side quests etc (which is not usually my favourite part of open world games, except this and Hogwarts Legacy).
@Northern_munkey No problem, I hope it was helpful. I suppose it all comes down to what you are able/willing to spend - for me, and given my pretty high usage it was an easy choice. It also helps that I really like games with high framerates / nice graphics as I think it elevates them even from a gameplay perspective.
PSSR should not be used unless it is used properly & it would probably be better to see non enhanced games which are automatically enhanced by the system, than badly enhanced games. But I said all this in my comments.
The 'boost mode' is just a name - maybe 'boost conditions' would be a better, but I regularly see both being used. You are right in that it just refers to what the Pro can do scaling wise, without additional instruction from the game.
How it is achieved is probably more complex though - The Pro's GPU is not faster under normal operation. It is bigger with 60CU vs 36CU, and 'boost mode/conditions' uses some of this extra power - though results show that well made enhancement exceeds what this boost will acheive.
In regards to your next comment, I disagree - Pro should have included PSSR, it is on the devs to use it correctly and not just slap it onto every game without effort. Should it be easier to implement - maybe, but this is likely to be improved with PSSR2/FSR4 next year.
If all the rumours are true, PS6 will not have a massive leap in GPU raw computational power over PS5 Pro - it will be slightly more than the leap from 5 to 5Pro. In GPU terms the capability of the PS6 will almost FULLY depend on how well devs can use the additional systems / functionality of the GPUs being developed for PS6 and AMD PC GPUs.
Just going back to something you say early in your 1st post: I don't believe PS5 Pro enhancement is mandated - but too many more cases like this game and Sony may well do, including wording on how enhanced the games should be - with Xbox floundering so badly, Sony could easily do this and more. Will they, I don't know, but bad perception of 5Pro could lead to hesitation over PS6 when it becomes clearer that it will rely heavily on tech like PSSR.
@OldGamer999 Sorry, I have to correct your Tflop info.
Based on what Mark Cerny has said for PS5 consoles: The normal operating Tflops are 10 for PS5, and 16.7 for Pro. (If I remember correctly, peak is something like 10.3 and 17.6 respectively, but Cerny only really talks normal operation these days).
Series X is stated as a theoretical maximum of 12, but this is the only thing they state as they really like their big meaningless numbers. The last 5 years have shown this is clearly not close to normal operation, with the back and forth technical results showing it to be much closer to 10 - IIRC a couple of devs stated 10.5. Other factors obviously then come in to affect actual game performance.
@OldGamer999 "Sony should so put a few games on Xbox now" They really shouldn't from THEIR point of view. It was the PERCEPTION that all Xbox games were on / coming to PS that did the damage, not the truth of the situation. The last thing Sony want to do is create any sort of PERCEPTION that they are softening their approach.
I agree that this game coming to PS consoles is a big event, but I still refuse to in any way 'trust' Xbox until they get their games technically top notch on PS5/PS5 Pro - games like OW2 prove they just don't have the right mindset, Yet.
To be clear its my stance that Xbox need to prove their intentions by ensuring both Pro and Base versions are the best they can be ie base level to series X, and Pro with a Sony 1st party level enhancement.
If that happens, I might be more tempted by games like this, I never played.
@Northern_munkey I know you aimed your question at @Titntin but I thought I would answer anyway - we've had a few discussions recently.
I would agree with a lot of what others have said. If you play games at 30fps it really isn't worth it - these modes generally see the smallest upgrade. I also wouldn't bother if you have bad eyesight - I'm not being rude, just practical. Its also true that to get the best out of it you should really have a 4k 120hz VRR HDMI2.1 TV, though only the 4k is essential for a lot of games, the main enhancement of others is an fps boost above 60fps - eg RE4 Remake and RE Village.
Otherwise, I've really liked mine, and I really wouldn't want to go back to a base PS5. My partner isn't a big gamer, and even they can appreciate the difference. The biggest upgrades are normally Sony titles, and I play a lot of these.
I'm very sensitive to fps drops below 60fps and there have even been a few games I have bought that I just wouldn't have done if I didn't have a Pro - either due to fps drops, or poor (eg blurry) visuals in 60fps modes.
The extra SSD space has been a nice bonus. For accurate comparison, the Available space on my OG PS5 was 667GB, on Pro it is 1.89TB.
I'm sorry though, I have never played GT7 - I've heard good things about it on Pro, and its a Sony title, but I have no direct experience to advise.
@SMJ The Pro has a 'boost mode' which automatically kicks in when games are not enhanced.
The testing I have seen generally tends towards a 35-55% increase in fps, providing of course that the fps doesn't reach a cap (ie if its running at 55fps on base, with a 60fps cap the Pro can only achieve 60fps, which is only a 9% gain). That may seem small, but consider a game that runs with drops to 45fps - an awful fps visually and lower than VRR. You only need max 33.3% to get that to locked 60fps.
If the game has a stable fps, and dynamic resolution scaling (ie the resolution scales down when the GPU becomes strained to help prevent fps drops), then the boost mode will help towards keeping the resolution at the top of the range if it is not already.
If the game has dynamic res and fps issues, thats where it gets messy as the boost mode power will need to be split between both trying to prevent fps drops and keeping res at the top of the scale. I presume it just depends on how the base code is written as to how this is prioritised.
The boost mode cannot use PSSR, and I dont believe it can use the additional RT acceleration which helps reduce the workload of RT. Also, if a game runs at the cap for fps and res on base PS5, the boost mode is unable to do anything - you need a code change to do anything here.
Its very probable that on those few occasions where a game has been poorly enhanced on Pro, it would have fared much better if they hadn't bothered and the boost mode took over. On the other hand, well done enhancements are of course always far, far better.
@MrStark
My main point was that I was talking about my PS5 Pro (as in being silent from a distance of about 6 feet away).
I agreed about PS4 Pro being noisy.
The PS4 Pro was a good console - I liked it enough, but it did have its minor issues, and it just wasn't in the same league as the PS5 Pro which is by far the bigger upgrade over base overall in my opinion.
Having been playing on PS5 Pro for nearly a year, and still having the base PS5 in my household, its very clear to me that PS5 Pro is the much better upgrade compared to PS4/PS4 Pro.
In terms of fan noise - I can't tell any real difference between PS5 and PS5 Pro - they are both silent from approx 6 feet away. Quite impressive in my opinion given the increased workload the Pro's fan has over base.
@TrollOfWar I can't believe that people at Xbox/MS would have made decisions like this based on Covid period interest in the gaming market as a whole, but then there have been very questionable planning and decisions around the whole Xbox / GP division, so you can't rule it out either.
Eg why promise all Xbox studio games day 1 on GP if you were even thinking of buying COD - they surely couldn't have expected to take a big enough market share away from Sony to have made this profitable (Im referencing the recent info about how much COD, day1 on GP has cost them).
@Questionable_Duck
I hadn't thought of that - I assume you are looking at it from an expansion point of view, ie that MS were basically demanding expansion of the division, which hadn't happened for a number of years (since 360 realistically).
I suppose its possible. I think it was a few interviews from Phil Spencer back around the launch of this gen that made me conclude that Xbox were now only really interested in Game Pass, and not their platform. But we will probably never know whether this was Xbox or MS driven.
@Medic_alert I don't really think I am assuming a lot here.
DF have regularly said that PSSR and UE5 sometimes don't mix - so its fairly straightforward to suggest that devs don't use it in this case, or use it carefully. We know full well that they can just use the additional GPU etc to enhance games well, without having to use PSSR and this has been proven many times (HFW and DS2 come to mind as particular standouts).
Also, if DF can analyse these games so quickly and find these issues - why can't the developers as part of their QA process? I know people who work in IT systems and they will tell you that code goes through multiple stages of testing and improvement. Are QA testers not up to the job (eg people who can't see visual differences or fps issues), are they not given the time, or are they not given the right tools? If QA are reporting issues - and the Pro version not looking better / performing better than PS5 / series X should be classed as a big issue - then why isn't this being acted upon? QA / post QA improvement is an integral part of the development process, and should be factored into timelines.
I'm also not saying its necessarily the fault of the team - it is very possible that the cause is bad management of the development process - maybe from 'on high' so to speak with unreasonable demands in regards adding PS5/Pro versions too late / without resource (including time).
Finally, your "it doesn't happen on other machines" is just plain wrong. We have seen plenty of examples of poorly optimised games this gen - according to the article DF clearly called out the PS5 version as well for needing work. It has also been well known for even RTX5090 PCs to have issues with significant stuttering in games, particularly UE5.
@get2sammyb Is it the belief that Xbox has the high 30% target (ie instead of 17-22%), because of their acquisitions?
If so, that raises the question of was this known by Xbox management before approval - ie MS agreed to finance the purchase of Activision, but said that they would only do this if (due to shareholder demands etc) Xbox division agreed to the 30% profit margin target?
These acquisitions really seem to fall into the category of "be careful what you wish for"!
@Lysterao I'm not saying its intentional (although I do start to wonder these days). But the poor PS5 and Pro versions - a lot of people seem to be missing the fact that the base PS5 version is also not great - shows a distinct lack of care / effort in the case of PS systems which is the area they are really needing to sell well.
Was this a matter of skill/experience or a matter of decisions by higher ups (eg the "oh by the way you also need to get out PS5/Pro versions, but we are not giving you any more time" argument), we don't know. But, it does happen too frequently with Xbox games - though absolutely not always.
I would also severely question the QA process here - did they notice the issues (and that the Pro version wasn't a significant enhancement), and if they did, why wasn't anything done. If they didn't, why not?
If Xbox were serious about being seem as truly multiplatform, they would make sure that the PS5/Pro versions of all their games were absolutely top notch - not seen as an afterthought. They are the ones that need to prove to PS users that they are multiplatform, not just poorly porting for a bit of extra cash. And they would be supporting their dev teams to ensure this can happen.
@Medic_alert The only issue from hardware point of view is that PSSR doesn't always play nice with UE5 - although I'm sure some have managed it just fine, and this will likely be ironed out when the new version of PSSR/FSR4 is released soon.
The problem here is that someone (despite probably having heard about potential issues) still decided to use it. Then either QA didn't notice the issues, or did, and nothing was done about it. I'm sorry, thats purely on the development process. They could have used the 1.7x GPU etc to enhance the game.
@themightyant Its a lot smaller if you consider how many developers are behind these poorly made Pro versions. Off the top of my head, it has only been Xbox games, and Konami games.
Xbox games shouldn't surprise us really - I don't necessarily think they do it on purpose (though I am starting to wonder), but the variation in their standards (eg FH5 vs this) shows that they are not yet serious about being truly multiplatform, or this wouldn't have happened - where PS5 and Pro were afterthoughts.
As I've said above though, this really shows how poor these developers are - they didn't have to use PSSR, and could have just used the additional horsepower. If they tried to add it and ran into issues, they should have seen these issues during QA and removed it.
Fair warning for anyone thinking of picking this up - I haven't watched the video as I'm not that interested in the game by DF's review headline is that the PS5 versions need work. Another example of why Xbox isn't genuine about being properly multiplatform, despite what they say.
I thought this was a badly timed April's fool joke!
The company that has spent close to $100bn to buy exclusives, and which still isn't releasing every game on PS5 at the same time they launch on Xbox / still hasn't released all their titles on PS5, says this just because they have effectively killed their own console brand.
The only thing this confirms is how desperate they are. It couldn't sound any worse if she added "Xbox are the Pro-consumer console brand" at the end lol.
@Northern_munkey RE your comment #118 I agree with a lot of what you are saying, and before I get into anything else - death threats, or threatening peoples families etc is just not unacceptable. But I do understand some of what @DennisReynolds is saying.
The problem with hatred towards minority groups is that it can wear people down. The unfair biases of others, keeping things to yourself (the proverbial closet), and sometimes just the way that hateful language is used without thought because it is so woven into society. That's before the genuine fear of living in a world where people hate you, knowing that some would try and harm you or your family, just because of who you are / how you were born.
Context is needed however - the outright backlash against people who say something that offends, but without nasty intention, because they don't think, don't understand, don't word correctly (/taken out of context), or aren't being politically correct, is just ridiculous too. Not to mention the whole "you said something X years ago that was X-ist" - people change and grow!
But, given what I have said above, it is no wonder people from minority groups like LGBTQ+ can behave in a way that isn't their best on occasion. 'isn't their best' is the best description I can come up with - there still needs to be some proportionality here, but again context is important (I just don't think it appropriate to give examples).
I genuinely hope the world is changing and that people like your nephew never have to face (ideally) any, or (realistically) as much, of the prejudices that should be in this worlds past, but given some of the comments by a few others above, we aren't quite there yet, even on a relatively respectful site like this (referencing comments).
@mary1 Have you actually played Hogwarts Legacy? I ask this because of the context you use it in.
It is one of the more inclusive games this generation - hence why I bought it, in spite of the authors views.
It includes a fantastically written Trans woman, who's history is nicely woven into the lives of others, and the game lightly explores some of the difficulties she faced growing up. She is one of the better written trans characters I can remember in games.
The game also includes multiple different ethnicities and different sexual orientations.
Your right... it has been a huge success - but because people looked past the authors views and to the actual content written by the dev team, which in my opinion is positive and inclusive. (That said I can understand if some have personally chosen not to buy it because the author will receive some financial gain).
To call the game JKR's Hogwarts Legacy is not really right - this is the development teams game. There are even a few other signposts of this from a lore point of view - eg the ultimate hero spell expelliarmus - the spell that can do no harm - can be turned into a damaging curse which is far more effective lol.
@Dogbreath I bought DA Veilguard last year after reading all the good reviews - 8/10 here, slightly over that on metacritic - I thoroughly enjoyed it and it was my 2nd favourite game last year.
@Oram77 @Northern_munkey RE AI - ah, I understand. Yeah it does get thrown around in some odd cases.
Now, is it "git good" or "git gud" lol
When I saw the original list, I was tempted to try and use every word in a single sentence. Then thought better of it, just in case what I wrote, if taken out of context, would have lead to me being moderated into oblivion!
@Oram77
I agree (well, apart from AI - unless you are referring to it being used detrimentaly in cases which aren't AI, or there is a connotation I don't know).
I just don't understand the hypocrisy involved.
We all work with people we don't like, disagree with the opinions of, or who quite frankly are idiots. And I'm sure that some of them post things publicly that we wouldn't like.
In this case, due to a comment that a dev team member made personally but publicly, people actually hoped for the failure of this game / attempted (in vain) to make this game fail, which most likely would have resulted in the closure of the studio, or at the least mass redundancies. Yet how many of these people would be prepared to 'boycott' their own workplace and resign from their jobs if any one of their work colleagues said something similar publicly?
Im not even passing comment on what was said, though im not sure on what grounds they were dismissed either.
(Going back to your comment)
The funny thing is, that when these little anti-woke etc campaigns start up, after the events of the last few years, they actually make me more inclined to buy the game! Maybe thats just me being odd.
Thankfully though it looks like this game has been a major success - which it deserves to be. I was on the fence due to not having really liked GoT, but Im really enjoying a very well made game.
To end on a lighter note, I would like to add 1 more word to your list of overused words - "Soulslike" lol.
Edit- added "(Going back to your comment)" as when I reread I wasn't sure I was making sense.
I have said similar before, but I wonder how many of those calling for a boycott on the grounds of what a member of the development staff said, would in turn call for a boycott of the company they work for - leading to them losing their job - because one of their colleagues said something similar on social media?...
@UltimateOtaku91 Im just going on personal experience - my partners mid range phone, which was bought brand new only a couple of years ago has already stopped receiving updates. We checked and they only supported 3yrs software / 4yrs security updates from launch.
Im not disagreeing with your point about peoples spending on new phones - its crazy - just adding that phones 'appear' to go 'out of date' much faster - I had missed saying about non replaceable batteries which is also part of it.
Maybe the biggest part of it is how often new phone models launch - yet we see complaints about mid gen refreshes in console gaming.
@UltimateOtaku91 I think part of it is that mobile phones go out of date - forced, by the company ceasing software/security updates - so quickly these days.
But you are right, people will easily find the means to buy a new phone regularly, but will complain about console prices.
You also have the weird situation where devs are very reluctant to stop supporting the previous gen for fear of losing money so fail to properly embrace the current gen, but then wonder why people don't upgrade.
With a potentially much smaller leap the PS6 could literally have trouble getting off the ground*, with its biggest 'competition' being PS5. What a funny world we live in...
(* well unless Sony adopt the same strategy as Phones - stopping support after 3-4 years in some cases).
@LifeGirl Its not just the marginal / non existent gains companies have seen that have heavily moved into AI.
A recent report I saw / read (I think it was via BBC) was discussing how unusual investment practices were massively over inflating the price worth of AI, and how 'messy' a drop in the perceived value of AI could become.
I would also add that the increasing number of AI scams etc could lead to stricter legislation, which could cause them huge issues.
@itsfoz There was an interesting Digital Foundry video recently that discussed PS6 and the likely cross gen period.
This was all based on things Mark Cerny had recently said along with AMD, which was basically that PS6 would be underpowered from a traditional sense, but would incorporate a number of new systems to effectively boost the capability.
DF more or less concluded that this could easily mean, given the massive turnaround time / development time / development cost for games these days, that we may not see the benefits of of these new systems until much further into the generation.
It will all hinge on how quickly Sony can transition mid development, and whether 3rd party devs are willing to increase their budgets/dev times to include both the new systems for PS6 and more traditional systems for PS5 (which they will not abandon until enough PS6's are out there).
@UltimateOtaku91 I 100% agree that they NEED to launch a Pro from the start. The thing is, if it launches at the start of the generation and is a bigger and more across the board upgrade than previous gens, I would easily consider paying around the £1200 mark.
Without a Pro at launch, and if the PS6 is underpowered as it may well be (we keep seeing different things on this but very little is truly encouraging), Sony risk alienating a section of their market to please another.
The main trouble being that the section of their market that demand a <£600 console will include a large % of people who would comfortably stay with PS5 if they don't see a big upgrade, or might consider Switch2 in addition to their PS5 console to scratch that 'new tech' itch.
The thing is, something like this - providing it has storefronts like steam and was just a PC in a box - could be very enticing to myself and a lot of people I know.
But, it may well be far more expensive than just building a better PC, and other similar options may be available by then. Also, the new handheld is not what I would call premium given how it runs a number of PS5 games.
There are a lot of unknowns to consider, but I fear that the PS6 might not cater for anyone - cheap, but not powerful enough to entice people away from PS5. And nowhere close to being powerful enough to appeal to people like myself who would happily spend £1000 if the console was worth it.
@Brundleflies21 I dont think theyre particularly similar - no more than most soulslikes are to each other. But if your going to go down that line, nearly every game can be compared to another - and there would be far worse styles to use as inspiraton than Bloodborne!
@TruestoryYep Fair enough. Having put in a few hundred hours, Lies of P is in my top 3 non-Sony games this entire gen - amazing gameplay and looks. NG may not have been about the environments in the past, but it clearly is an area they needed to improve.
The 2 best things about this gen have been 60fps and the use of SSD's - with the dual sense in 3rd place when used correctly (eg Astro / GoY)
PS6 is going to need to wow with higher framerates (60fps quality) and visibly better graphics in order to sell enough to kick-start the next gen.
NB if this is a shallow attempt at lowering expectations for PS6, they are in for a rough time next gen - thankfully Mark Cerny's recent interviews paint a more positive picture.
Comments 2,733
Re: Halo PS5 Will Take Full Advantage of the DualSense Controller
I won't be taking Xbox seriously as a PS5 publisher until:
1) the PS5 versions of every game technically approximately match their series X versions - which a number do not.
2) their Pro enhancements show the same level of improvement other 3rd parties have shown are possible.
Re: Cult PS1 Fighting Trilogy Battle Arena Toshinden Coming to PS5
@PuppetMaster
Such a shame - they may not have been the most technical / balanced games, but they were just good fun, with the werebeast modes adding a lot of individuality to characters.
A proper remake could be just what the fighting game market needs for those uninterested in competitive play, which I just don't have the time/inclination for these days.
Re: Cancelled God of War PS5 Game Leaks in Screenshots
Demon Souls Remake was an amazing piece of work, by a clearly highly talented studio.
Such a pity that their time was wasted in this fashion - we could have been seeing a proper Bloodborne remake, or something completely new launching soon.
Re: Sony Rules Out Acquiring Batman, Mortal Kombat Maker Warner Bros
Its a shame from the point of view of games.
Hogwarts Legacy was amazing in my opinion but so much could be done to completely ruin its sequel - we don't want changes, just more of the same.
The latest MK game was not a game I really enjoyed - I preferred previous games.
Batman hasn't seen a decent game in what seems like a while now, though it probably did need a rest after the last Arkham game.
Sony could really help ensure future games in these series are top tier. Plus, there are far, far worse options out there...
Re: Cult PS1 Fighting Trilogy Battle Arena Toshinden Coming to PS5
Really hoping for a resurrection of the Bloody Roar series which were my favourite beat-em-ups of the era, except SF Alpha (particularly 3). I even preferred them to the Tekken games because they were just good fun.
Re: Halo PS5 Is Great, But Why Doesn't It Have Competitive Multiplayer?
@SeaDaVie
"Has anyone employed by Microsoft ever answered a question directly in their entire life?"
Maybe, once upon a time, but now all they come out with is bad corporate BS.
Part of the trouble is that they are floundering so much, they have no real sense of direction. Eg we now really believe in being truly multiformat and exclusivity is bad, but some of our games will still have some timed exclusivity, and at the same time we are releasing sub-par versions of games on PS5/Pro which haven't been made to the same technical quality.
It also often sounds like they are trying to come out with a version of some corporate message babble they have heard, but can't quite remember.
The trouble is, nothing they say has any hint of credibility to it.
(But I will add that Sony haven't been immune to the whole corporate BS in the last couple of years, with the 1 notable exception of Mark Cerny).
Re: Halo PS5 Is Great, But Why Doesn't It Have Competitive Multiplayer?
So that they can release a Multiplayer Halo separately, that they either charge for, or fill with microtransactions, or both.
Re: 'Our Biggest Competition Isn't Another Console': Xbox Doubles Down on Multiformat After Halo PS5 Shock
As a publisher I half agree with him.
For the other half, and as a platform their biggest enemy is themselves.
Between stupid decisions eg the 30% profit margin expectation reported recently, and GP price hikes whilst applauding how much money they are making from GP, to lackluster technical performance of some of their games on PS5/Pro where they should be focusing all of their effort to prove they are serious about the PS market.
They just seem to be in a mess right now.
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 604
Still making my way through Ghost of Yotei.
A really well made game that seems to improve the further you get into it; and I'm actually enjoying just exploring each area and doing side quests etc (which is not usually my favourite part of open world games, except this and Hogwarts Legacy).
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
@Northern_munkey
No problem, I hope it was helpful.
I suppose it all comes down to what you are able/willing to spend - for me, and given my pretty high usage it was an easy choice. It also helps that I really like games with high framerates / nice graphics as I think it elevates them even from a gameplay perspective.
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
@Sweetz
I agree with a lot of what you say.
PSSR should not be used unless it is used properly & it would probably be better to see non enhanced games which are automatically enhanced by the system, than badly enhanced games. But I said all this in my comments.
The 'boost mode' is just a name - maybe 'boost conditions' would be a better, but I regularly see both being used. You are right in that it just refers to what the Pro can do scaling wise, without additional instruction from the game.
How it is achieved is probably more complex though - The Pro's GPU is not faster under normal operation. It is bigger with 60CU vs 36CU, and 'boost mode/conditions' uses some of this extra power - though results show that well made enhancement exceeds what this boost will acheive.
In regards to your next comment, I disagree - Pro should have included PSSR, it is on the devs to use it correctly and not just slap it onto every game without effort.
Should it be easier to implement - maybe, but this is likely to be improved with PSSR2/FSR4 next year.
If all the rumours are true, PS6 will not have a massive leap in GPU raw computational power over PS5 Pro - it will be slightly more than the leap from 5 to 5Pro. In GPU terms the capability of the PS6 will almost FULLY depend on how well devs can use the additional systems / functionality of the GPUs being developed for PS6 and AMD PC GPUs.
Just going back to something you say early in your 1st post: I don't believe PS5 Pro enhancement is mandated - but too many more cases like this game and Sony may well do, including wording on how enhanced the games should be - with Xbox floundering so badly, Sony could easily do this and more.
Will they, I don't know, but bad perception of 5Pro could lead to hesitation over PS6 when it becomes clearer that it will rely heavily on tech like PSSR.
Re: Halo Confirmed for PS5, Remake of First Game Out in 2026
@OldGamer999
Sorry, I have to correct your Tflop info.
Based on what Mark Cerny has said for PS5 consoles:
The normal operating Tflops are 10 for PS5, and 16.7 for Pro.
(If I remember correctly, peak is something like 10.3 and 17.6 respectively, but Cerny only really talks normal operation these days).
Series X is stated as a theoretical maximum of 12, but this is the only thing they state as they really like their big meaningless numbers. The last 5 years have shown this is clearly not close to normal operation, with the back and forth technical results showing it to be much closer to 10 - IIRC a couple of devs stated 10.5.
Other factors obviously then come in to affect actual game performance.
Re: Halo Confirmed for PS5, Remake of First Game Out in 2026
@OldGamer999
"Sony should so put a few games on Xbox now"
They really shouldn't from THEIR point of view. It was the PERCEPTION that all Xbox games were on / coming to PS that did the damage, not the truth of the situation. The last thing Sony want to do is create any sort of PERCEPTION that they are softening their approach.
Re: Halo Confirmed for PS5, Remake of First Game Out in 2026
I agree that this game coming to PS consoles is a big event, but I still refuse to in any way 'trust' Xbox until they get their games technically top notch on PS5/PS5 Pro - games like OW2 prove they just don't have the right mindset, Yet.
To be clear its my stance that Xbox need to prove their intentions by ensuring both Pro and Base versions are the best they can be ie base level to series X, and Pro with a Sony 1st party level enhancement.
If that happens, I might be more tempted by games like this, I never played.
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
@Northern_munkey
I know you aimed your question at @Titntin but I thought I would answer anyway - we've had a few discussions recently.
I would agree with a lot of what others have said.
If you play games at 30fps it really isn't worth it - these modes generally see the smallest upgrade.
I also wouldn't bother if you have bad eyesight - I'm not being rude, just practical.
Its also true that to get the best out of it you should really have a 4k 120hz VRR HDMI2.1 TV, though only the 4k is essential for a lot of games, the main enhancement of others is an fps boost above 60fps - eg RE4 Remake and RE Village.
Otherwise, I've really liked mine, and I really wouldn't want to go back to a base PS5.
My partner isn't a big gamer, and even they can appreciate the difference.
The biggest upgrades are normally Sony titles, and I play a lot of these.
I'm very sensitive to fps drops below 60fps and there have even been a few games I have bought that I just wouldn't have done if I didn't have a Pro - either due to fps drops, or poor (eg blurry) visuals in 60fps modes.
The extra SSD space has been a nice bonus. For accurate comparison, the Available space on my OG PS5 was 667GB, on Pro it is 1.89TB.
I'm sorry though, I have never played GT7 - I've heard good things about it on Pro, and its a Sony title, but I have no direct experience to advise.
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
@SMJ
The Pro has a 'boost mode' which automatically kicks in when games are not enhanced.
The testing I have seen generally tends towards a 35-55% increase in fps, providing of course that the fps doesn't reach a cap (ie if its running at 55fps on base, with a 60fps cap the Pro can only achieve 60fps, which is only a 9% gain). That may seem small, but consider a game that runs with drops to 45fps - an awful fps visually and lower than VRR. You only need max 33.3% to get that to locked 60fps.
If the game has a stable fps, and dynamic resolution scaling (ie the resolution scales down when the GPU becomes strained to help prevent fps drops), then the boost mode will help towards keeping the resolution at the top of the range if it is not already.
If the game has dynamic res and fps issues, thats where it gets messy as the boost mode power will need to be split between both trying to prevent fps drops and keeping res at the top of the scale. I presume it just depends on how the base code is written as to how this is prioritised.
The boost mode cannot use PSSR, and I dont believe it can use the additional RT acceleration which helps reduce the workload of RT. Also, if a game runs at the cap for fps and res on base PS5, the boost mode is unable to do anything - you need a code change to do anything here.
Its very probable that on those few occasions where a game has been poorly enhanced on Pro, it would have fared much better if they hadn't bothered and the boost mode took over. On the other hand, well done enhancements are of course always far, far better.
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
@MrStark
My main point was that I was talking about my PS5 Pro (as in being silent from a distance of about 6 feet away).
I agreed about PS4 Pro being noisy.
The PS4 Pro was a good console - I liked it enough, but it did have its minor issues, and it just wasn't in the same league as the PS5 Pro which is by far the bigger upgrade over base overall in my opinion.
Having been playing on PS5 Pro for nearly a year, and still having the base PS5 in my household, its very clear to me that PS5 Pro is the much better upgrade compared to PS4/PS4 Pro.
In terms of fan noise - I can't tell any real difference between PS5 and PS5 Pro - they are both silent from approx 6 feet away. Quite impressive in my opinion given the increased workload the Pro's fan has over base.
Edit: nearly a year, not over.
Re: This Is Why Xbox Is Bringing All of Its Games to PS5 Now
@TrollOfWar
I can't believe that people at Xbox/MS would have made decisions like this based on Covid period interest in the gaming market as a whole, but then there have been very questionable planning and decisions around the whole Xbox / GP division, so you can't rule it out either.
Eg why promise all Xbox studio games day 1 on GP if you were even thinking of buying COD - they surely couldn't have expected to take a big enough market share away from Sony to have made this profitable (Im referencing the recent info about how much COD, day1 on GP has cost them).
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
@MrStark
PS4/PS4 Pro was a bit loud in quiet moments, I agree. Im talking about my PS5 Pro which is silent from about 6 feet away.
Plus, with RE2 Remake you could just pretend it was a fan from a nearby air con unit, generator etc - it was based in a city / lab.
Re: This Is Why Xbox Is Bringing All of Its Games to PS5 Now
@Questionable_Duck
I hadn't thought of that - I assume you are looking at it from an expansion point of view, ie that MS were basically demanding expansion of the division, which hadn't happened for a number of years (since 360 realistically).
I suppose its possible. I think it was a few interviews from Phil Spencer back around the launch of this gen that made me conclude that Xbox were now only really interested in Game Pass, and not their platform. But we will probably never know whether this was Xbox or MS driven.
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
@Tatarimokke
I can hear my Pro - If I stick my ear up against it... from across my lounge its silent - particularly while I'm playing a game.
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
@Medic_alert
I don't really think I am assuming a lot here.
DF have regularly said that PSSR and UE5 sometimes don't mix - so its fairly straightforward to suggest that devs don't use it in this case, or use it carefully.
We know full well that they can just use the additional GPU etc to enhance games well, without having to use PSSR and this has been proven many times (HFW and DS2 come to mind as particular standouts).
Also, if DF can analyse these games so quickly and find these issues - why can't the developers as part of their QA process? I know people who work in IT systems and they will tell you that code goes through multiple stages of testing and improvement.
Are QA testers not up to the job (eg people who can't see visual differences or fps issues), are they not given the time, or are they not given the right tools?
If QA are reporting issues - and the Pro version not looking better / performing better than PS5 / series X should be classed as a big issue - then why isn't this being acted upon?
QA / post QA improvement is an integral part of the development process, and should be factored into timelines.
I'm also not saying its necessarily the fault of the team - it is very possible that the cause is bad management of the development process - maybe from 'on high' so to speak with unreasonable demands in regards adding PS5/Pro versions too late / without resource (including time).
Finally, your "it doesn't happen on other machines" is just plain wrong. We have seen plenty of examples of poorly optimised games this gen - according to the article DF clearly called out the PS5 version as well for needing work. It has also been well known for even RTX5090 PCs to have issues with significant stuttering in games, particularly UE5.
Re: This Is Why Xbox Is Bringing All of Its Games to PS5 Now
@get2sammyb
Is it the belief that Xbox has the high 30% target (ie instead of 17-22%), because of their acquisitions?
If so, that raises the question of was this known by Xbox management before approval - ie MS agreed to finance the purchase of Activision, but said that they would only do this if (due to shareholder demands etc) Xbox division agreed to the 30% profit margin target?
These acquisitions really seem to fall into the category of "be careful what you wish for"!
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
@Lysterao
I'm not saying its intentional (although I do start to wonder these days).
But the poor PS5 and Pro versions - a lot of people seem to be missing the fact that the base PS5 version is also not great - shows a distinct lack of care / effort in the case of PS systems which is the area they are really needing to sell well.
Was this a matter of skill/experience or a matter of decisions by higher ups (eg the "oh by the way you also need to get out PS5/Pro versions, but we are not giving you any more time" argument), we don't know.
But, it does happen too frequently with Xbox games - though absolutely not always.
I would also severely question the QA process here - did they notice the issues (and that the Pro version wasn't a significant enhancement), and if they did, why wasn't anything done. If they didn't, why not?
If Xbox were serious about being seem as truly multiplatform, they would make sure that the PS5/Pro versions of all their games were absolutely top notch - not seen as an afterthought. They are the ones that need to prove to PS users that they are multiplatform, not just poorly porting for a bit of extra cash. And they would be supporting their dev teams to ensure this can happen.
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
@Medic_alert
The only issue from hardware point of view is that PSSR doesn't always play nice with UE5 - although I'm sure some have managed it just fine, and this will likely be ironed out when the new version of PSSR/FSR4 is released soon.
The problem here is that someone (despite probably having heard about potential issues) still decided to use it. Then either QA didn't notice the issues, or did, and nothing was done about it. I'm sorry, thats purely on the development process. They could have used the 1.7x GPU etc to enhance the game.
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
@themightyant
Its a lot smaller if you consider how many developers are behind these poorly made Pro versions. Off the top of my head, it has only been Xbox games, and Konami games.
Xbox games shouldn't surprise us really - I don't necessarily think they do it on purpose (though I am starting to wonder), but the variation in their standards (eg FH5 vs this) shows that they are not yet serious about being truly multiplatform, or this wouldn't have happened - where PS5 and Pro were afterthoughts.
As I've said above though, this really shows how poor these developers are - they didn't have to use PSSR, and could have just used the additional horsepower. If they tried to add it and ran into issues, they should have seen these issues during QA and removed it.
Re: PS5 Pro Is Definitely Not the Best Place to Play The Outer Worlds 2 at Launch
PSSR is not compulsory to use - if it gives issues with UE5, then just don't use it and instead use the significant additional horsepower of the Pro.
Also, all I see this as, is just another example that Xbox is not genuine about being truly multiplatform. Despite what they claim.
Re: The Outer Worlds 2 (PS5) - Mechanically Fantastic RPG Struggles to Be Memorable
Fair warning for anyone thinking of picking this up - I haven't watched the video as I'm not that interested in the game by DF's review headline is that the PS5 versions need work.
Another example of why Xbox isn't genuine about being properly multiplatform, despite what they say.
Re: The Outer Worlds 2 (PS5) - Mechanically Fantastic RPG Struggles to Be Memorable
@Oram77
I don't think Saros is chopped liver - unless its fried up with onions - you know, something that will really repeat on you...
Re: Xbox Boss Believes Sony's Strategy of Console Exclusives Is 'Antiquated'
@Northern_munkey
RE "its funny Microsoft are saying this now"
I actually laughed out loud reading what she had said - who does she think she is convincing?
Re: Xbox Boss Believes Sony's Strategy of Console Exclusives Is 'Antiquated'
I thought this was a badly timed April's fool joke!
The company that has spent close to $100bn to buy exclusives, and which still isn't releasing every game on PS5 at the same time they launch on Xbox / still hasn't released all their titles on PS5, says this just because they have effectively killed their own console brand.
The only thing this confirms is how desperate they are.
It couldn't sound any worse if she added "Xbox are the Pro-consumer console brand" at the end lol.
Re: Sep 2025 USA Sales: Ghost of Yotei PS5 Boycott Fails, Sequel Sells 'Great'
@Northern_munkey
RE your comment #118
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, and before I get into anything else - death threats, or threatening peoples families etc is just not unacceptable.
But I do understand some of what @DennisReynolds is saying.
The problem with hatred towards minority groups is that it can wear people down.
The unfair biases of others, keeping things to yourself (the proverbial closet), and sometimes just the way that hateful language is used without thought because it is so woven into society. That's before the genuine fear of living in a world where people hate you, knowing that some would try and harm you or your family, just because of who you are / how you were born.
Context is needed however - the outright backlash against people who say something that offends, but without nasty intention, because they don't think, don't understand, don't word correctly (/taken out of context), or aren't being politically correct, is just ridiculous too. Not to mention the whole "you said something X years ago that was X-ist" - people change and grow!
But, given what I have said above, it is no wonder people from minority groups like LGBTQ+ can behave in a way that isn't their best on occasion. 'isn't their best' is the best description I can come up with - there still needs to be some proportionality here, but again context is important (I just don't think it appropriate to give examples).
I genuinely hope the world is changing and that people like your nephew never have to face (ideally) any, or (realistically) as much, of the prejudices that should be in this worlds past, but given some of the comments by a few others above, we aren't quite there yet, even on a relatively respectful site like this (referencing comments).
Re: Sep 2025 USA Sales: Ghost of Yotei PS5 Boycott Fails, Sequel Sells 'Great'
@mary1
Have you actually played Hogwarts Legacy?
I ask this because of the context you use it in.
It is one of the more inclusive games this generation - hence why I bought it, in spite of the authors views.
It includes a fantastically written Trans woman, who's history is nicely woven into the lives of others, and the game lightly explores some of the difficulties she faced growing up. She is one of the better written trans characters I can remember in games.
The game also includes multiple different ethnicities and different sexual orientations.
Your right... it has been a huge success - but because people looked past the authors views and to the actual content written by the dev team, which in my opinion is positive and inclusive. (That said I can understand if some have personally chosen not to buy it because the author will receive some financial gain).
To call the game JKR's Hogwarts Legacy is not really right - this is the development teams game. There are even a few other signposts of this from a lore point of view - eg the ultimate hero spell expelliarmus - the spell that can do no harm - can be turned into a damaging curse which is far more effective lol.
Re: This Astro Bot Dual Speeder Figure Might Be the Best PS5 Merch Money Can Buy
Im not sure I would buy it, but it does look genuinely amazing.
Re: Sep 2025 USA Sales: Ghost of Yotei PS5 Boycott Fails, Sequel Sells 'Great'
@Dogbreath
I bought DA Veilguard last year after reading all the good reviews - 8/10 here, slightly over that on metacritic - I thoroughly enjoyed it and it was my 2nd favourite game last year.
Re: Sep 2025 USA Sales: Ghost of Yotei PS5 Boycott Fails, Sequel Sells 'Great'
@Oram77 @Northern_munkey
RE AI - ah, I understand. Yeah it does get thrown around in some odd cases.
Now, is it "git good" or "git gud" lol
When I saw the original list, I was tempted to try and use every word in a single sentence. Then thought better of it, just in case what I wrote, if taken out of context, would have lead to me being moderated into oblivion!
Re: Sep 2025 USA Sales: Ghost of Yotei PS5 Boycott Fails, Sequel Sells 'Great'
@Oram77
I agree (well, apart from AI - unless you are referring to it being used detrimentaly in cases which aren't AI, or there is a connotation I don't know).
I just don't understand the hypocrisy involved.
We all work with people we don't like, disagree with the opinions of, or who quite frankly are idiots. And I'm sure that some of them post things publicly that we wouldn't like.
In this case, due to a comment that a dev team member made personally but publicly, people actually hoped for the failure of this game / attempted (in vain) to make this game fail, which most likely would have resulted in the closure of the studio, or at the least mass redundancies. Yet how many of these people would be prepared to 'boycott' their own workplace and resign from their jobs if any one of their work colleagues said something similar publicly?
Im not even passing comment on what was said, though im not sure on what grounds they were dismissed either.
(Going back to your comment)
The funny thing is, that when these little anti-woke etc campaigns start up, after the events of the last few years, they actually make me more inclined to buy the game! Maybe thats just me being odd.
Thankfully though it looks like this game has been a major success - which it deserves to be. I was on the fence due to not having really liked GoT, but Im really enjoying a very well made game.
To end on a lighter note, I would like to add 1 more word to your list of overused words - "Soulslike" lol.
Edit- added "(Going back to your comment)" as when I reread I wasn't sure I was making sense.
Re: Sep 2025 USA Sales: Ghost of Yotei PS5 Boycott Fails, Sequel Sells 'Great'
I have said similar before, but I wonder how many of those calling for a boycott on the grounds of what a member of the development staff said, would in turn call for a boycott of the company they work for - leading to them losing their job - because one of their colleagues said something similar on social media?...
Re: Now Devs Are Politely Asking Their PS4 Players to Upgrade to PS5
@UltimateOtaku91
Im just going on personal experience - my partners mid range phone, which was bought brand new only a couple of years ago has already stopped receiving updates. We checked and they only supported 3yrs software / 4yrs security updates from launch.
Im not disagreeing with your point about peoples spending on new phones - its crazy - just adding that phones 'appear' to go 'out of date' much faster - I had missed saying about non replaceable batteries which is also part of it.
Maybe the biggest part of it is how often new phone models launch - yet we see complaints about mid gen refreshes in console gaming.
Re: Now Devs Are Politely Asking Their PS4 Players to Upgrade to PS5
@UltimateOtaku91
I think part of it is that mobile phones go out of date - forced, by the company ceasing software/security updates - so quickly these days.
But you are right, people will easily find the means to buy a new phone regularly, but will complain about console prices.
You also have the weird situation where devs are very reluctant to stop supporting the previous gen for fear of losing money so fail to properly embrace the current gen, but then wonder why people don't upgrade.
Re: Now Devs Are Politely Asking Their PS4 Players to Upgrade to PS5
This will only get worse for PS5/PS6.
With a potentially much smaller leap the PS6 could literally have trouble getting off the ground*, with its biggest 'competition' being PS5. What a funny world we live in...
(* well unless Sony adopt the same strategy as Phones - stopping support after 3-4 years in some cases).
Re: New PS5 Firmware Update Available Now, Here's What It Does
@Reeneman
Agreed - but I think around March next year has been the rumoured time frame for the new PSSR (and hasn't really changed too much).
Re: PS6 Could Be Less Than Half the Price of Microsoft's 'Very Premium' Next-Gen Xbox
@LifeGirl
Its not just the marginal / non existent gains companies have seen that have heavily moved into AI.
A recent report I saw / read (I think it was via BBC) was discussing how unusual investment practices were massively over inflating the price worth of AI, and how 'messy' a drop in the perceived value of AI could become.
I would also add that the increasing number of AI scams etc could lead to stricter legislation, which could cause them huge issues.
Re: PS6 Could Be Less Than Half the Price of Microsoft's 'Very Premium' Next-Gen Xbox
@itsfoz
There was an interesting Digital Foundry video recently that discussed PS6 and the likely cross gen period.
This was all based on things Mark Cerny had recently said along with AMD, which was basically that PS6 would be underpowered from a traditional sense, but would incorporate a number of new systems to effectively boost the capability.
DF more or less concluded that this could easily mean, given the massive turnaround time / development time / development cost for games these days, that we may not see the benefits of of these new systems until much further into the generation.
It will all hinge on how quickly Sony can transition mid development, and whether 3rd party devs are willing to increase their budgets/dev times to include both the new systems for PS6 and more traditional systems for PS5 (which they will not abandon until enough PS6's are out there).
Re: PS6 Could Be Less Than Half the Price of Microsoft's 'Very Premium' Next-Gen Xbox
@UltimateOtaku91
I 100% agree that they NEED to launch a Pro from the start.
The thing is, if it launches at the start of the generation and is a bigger and more across the board upgrade than previous gens, I would easily consider paying around the £1200 mark.
Without a Pro at launch, and if the PS6 is underpowered as it may well be (we keep seeing different things on this but very little is truly encouraging), Sony risk alienating a section of their market to please another.
The main trouble being that the section of their market that demand a <£600 console will include a large % of people who would comfortably stay with PS5 if they don't see a big upgrade, or might consider Switch2 in addition to their PS5 console to scratch that 'new tech' itch.
Re: PS6 Could Be Less Than Half the Price of Microsoft's 'Very Premium' Next-Gen Xbox
The thing is, something like this - providing it has storefronts like steam and was just a PC in a box - could be very enticing to myself and a lot of people I know.
But, it may well be far more expensive than just building a better PC, and other similar options may be available by then. Also, the new handheld is not what I would call premium given how it runs a number of PS5 games.
There are a lot of unknowns to consider, but I fear that the PS6 might not cater for anyone - cheap, but not powerful enough to entice people away from PS5. And nowhere close to being powerful enough to appeal to people like myself who would happily spend £1000 if the console was worth it.
Re: Jurassic World Evolution 3 (PS5) - Frontier Finds a Way to Improve Its Fantastic Park Building Franchise
@johncalmc
Does it run at 60fps or is it 30fps? The camera movement might really screw with me if 30fps (playing on Pro).
Re: Poll: Are You Playing Ninja Gaiden 4?
@Brundleflies21
I dont think theyre particularly similar - no more than most soulslikes are to each other. But if your going to go down that line, nearly every game can be compared to another - and there would be far worse styles to use as inspiraton than Bloodborne!
Re: Poll: Are You Playing Ninja Gaiden 4?
@TruestoryYep
Fair enough. Having put in a few hundred hours, Lies of P is in my top 3 non-Sony games this entire gen - amazing gameplay and looks.
NG may not have been about the environments in the past, but it clearly is an area they needed to improve.
Re: PS5 Has Been 'Special' Thanks to SSD, DualSense Features Rather Than Visuals
The 2 best things about this gen have been 60fps and the use of SSD's - with the dual sense in 3rd place when used correctly (eg Astro / GoY)
PS6 is going to need to wow with higher framerates (60fps quality) and visibly better graphics in order to sell enough to kick-start the next gen.
NB if this is a shallow attempt at lowering expectations for PS6, they are in for a rough time next gen - thankfully Mark Cerny's recent interviews paint a more positive picture.