@The_Hooligan You are quite right of course - it just feels like a bit of a cop out, particularly regarding Odin and Brok.
Brok's soul was lost as it was only 3/4 complete, so I suppose it could have traveled here by accident, but that doesn't help Sindri.
Odin is more complicated.
We were led to believe that Odins soul was destroyed completely, via the smashing of the sphere Atreus had trapped his soul in. But then they put in that (imo foreshadowing) scene of Atreus meeting the 2nd Raven (the 1st being dead). If I am correct, that raven now contains Odins soul, which wasn't destroyed - it escaped when the sphere was smashed and entered the Raven Odin was already bound with. For him to end up meeting Laufey, the Raven would need to be killed, thus freeing Odins soul to pass on.
On top of this, by the end of Ragnarok, Atreus was positioned as the key protagonist as far as Odin was concerned. All 3 hurt him, but it was Atreus that destroyed the mask which was so important to Odin, then finished him off (not counting Sindri's sphere smashing revenge). Also it was Atreus he had spent quite a long time with over the course of the story.
Thematically it would have made sense, if Odin survived, for him (though weakened) to be the main antagonist for an Atreus spin off. The father (Kratos) has already defeated the leader of 1 pantheon of gods, now the son will defeat the leader of another pantheon.
You also have the dual name theme - Atreus was Loki to Odin, and there was the scene at the end where Kratos states that Loki is leaving (on his adventure), while Atreus remains (in Kratos' heart).
Still quite annoyed we aren't getting an Atreus spin off first.
There were a lot of loose threads at the end of Ragnarok, including:
Atreus's quest to restore the Giants.
Odin may not be dead (with soul destroyed)! One of his ravens survived - Atreus talks to it after, and that could easily contain Odin's disembodied Soul.
Sindri (and maybe even Brok's) storyline was clearly not finished.
Not to mention the whole GOWR game felt like a passing of the torch.
And, unlike a few, I liked the Atreus character - he still had some growing to do of course, but that was kind of the whole point - he was very young. I actually thought he had far more mileage left as a character than Kratos.
@Boxmonkey Just to add to what @Shepherd_Tallon said, make sure you do the side content quite near the end of ragnarok, in the crater area of vanaheim. The only way to access this area is to do a side quest called "scent of survival", where you have to follow a dog. This then opens out a whole section of the map.
There is some interesting lore about Laufey in this area, which I can only assume will link to the new game.
@Pat_trick
"You're defining 'more choice' purely as 'more purchasing configurations,' while ignoring the quality of those choices."
Before this generation, Customers did not have the option of buying a Sony console without a disc drive - by them introducing optional drives everyone now has that choice.
That is not a buying configuration- that is a new option/choice.
They first did this with 2 separate models, which was not ideal as you couldn't easily add a disc drive later if you originally bought digital and changed their mind. They remedied that with Slim and Pro.
Are these extra choices in favour of digital users - yes, but not at the real detriment physical buyers. Of course they wanted to add more options for digital users - why would anyone want to pay extra for a disc drive they are not going to use, and with digital users increasing, and physical buyers decreasing, they had to act and increase options.
"But physical buyers lost an integrated drive and gained a separate purchase, an online activation requirement, and another piece of hardware that depends on Sony's continued support."
These things aren't exactly difficult to fit, and they come with a nice cover that perfectly integrates them. Its not like they need connecting with a cable away from the console taking up additional space. They need a one time connection to link.
Even if every PS5 had a disc drive, Sony would still be able to stop supporting discs in a year and a half.
In terms of the future.
I am still on the fence about their decision to stop supporting discs, and I will be until I see what plans they have in regards to digital.
I understand Sony's decision will upset those who still only buy discs.
I will add though that some of the extreme silliness I have heard and read does not really endear this cause to me, and that includes people attacking / insulting those who don't see Sony's decision as wrong. There has been some incredibly bad behaviour from some, even here on this site (in comments sections).
To a lot of people, Sony's decision is just the next logical step due to decreasing physical sales. I am not quite in this 'camp" either though.
I said, from pretty early on that if physical users want to send a message to Sony, they should do this in a noticeable way, refusing to buy digital (particularly in the case of games like GTA6 where there is no other option). I would even extend this to games that don't put the whole code on the disc, although I would not include Indie/ small dev teams who realistically have no choice.
If there truly are enough people to whom discs are important, Sony will notice.
The trouble is other options people are taking are not being helpful. The bombarding of comments may just look like a loud angry minority. Boycotting Sony games will actually skew sales heavily towards Digital (if physical buyers don't buy, digital buyers still will). And 'kicking the can down the road' when people say they won't buy PS6 won't be noticed by anyone.
@Pat_trick I'm not confusing anything. And to reiterate, as per my original post, I am not talking about what happens in a year and a half (as we do not know the full details yet) - I am talking purely about the change to make the disc drive an optional add on, as you were in the post I replied to.
Customers didnt have the choice to save some money and buy a console without a disc drive, and now (after this change to disc drives being optional), customers do. That is more choice.
What's more, from the slim onwards Sony made it so that even if you want to add (or replace) a disc drive later, you could - more choice.
You have had (for years) the option to buy a console with a disc drive, and you still do. Thus "preserving the functionality people already had". I don't see a one off linking as much of an inconvenience.
I didn't say that the move to optional disc drives had increased choice for Physical buyers - I said it had increased choice for consumers / gamers ie overall. It is yourself that is blinded by your own point of view, as you seem to only consider physical buyers. I'm not even considering that physical disc purchases are now firmly in the minority. The decision to make the disc drive optional did not remove any choice from yourself as a physical disc user, but it gave extra choice to those who don't want a disc drive, thus overall, choice was increased.
@ShadowRJ RE your post #180 I'm fully with you on the subject of optional drives.
Back when I had an Xbox360, I had 2 consoles die from disc drive errors. (It didn't do Xbox any favours when I made my decision to return to Sony for PS4). 1 under warranty, 1 not - even though the first didn't cost me anything, it was still a hassle. A replaceable disc drive would have saved me a lot of money/hassle.
PS I also agree with you on games that become non functional due to devs shutting down servers, when parts of them can be 'saved'.
@Pat_trick Its a fantastic thing that Sony removed the disc drive. Now a lot of people don't have to pay for a disc drive they will never use.
If you want a disc drive, you can buy one and add it on.
If Sony were not to offer an Optional add on disc drive for PS6, and with no method of converting a disc into a digital licence, I would say that would be a bit silly on their part due to some users's disc based back catalogues. BUT, this is not a reality yet - we know nothing of their plans in this area.
@Boucho11 I think you have misread what I was saying. My point was that the physical supporters who are trying to boycott Sony / this game are not doing themselves / their cause any good whatsoever.
@ShadowRJ And I'm sorry but genuine Physical Supporters should support and campaign for the Physical version of this game, and boycott any AAA (or maybe AA) game that doesn't have a physical version instead.
Anything else, and they will prove Sony right, and destroy their own cause: ie if Physical supporters don't buy, digital gamers still will, and this will massively skew the sales figures towards Digital. If overall sales are affected, Sony won't notice - they will just think there is less interest in Wolverine or something similar.
@Swandivetotheasphalt @wildcat_kickz I thought we had already seen provisional specs and that the handheld was indeed somewhat less powerful than base PS5 - though it may have the ability to run a version of PSSR, which if so, could be a game changer. I might be wrong and am only going off memory.
I agree with what a few others have said - they may talk about someone providing the majority of the original budget and that the comments "cannot be considered an accurate reflection", however, at no point do they outright state that Xbox didn't pay a sum for exclusivity that was greater than the development cost of the game.
To me, this just gives credence to the original comments made about how much Xbox paid. They say a lot, but don't actually deny the claim made.
I got a tiny bit bored of themes - I think I actually prefer the individual game windows / backgrounds (particularly with music). It was nice when Sony added the anniversary themes for PS5, but I soon reverted to standard. I also used the log fire background on the welcome screen over Xmas.
It probably does have a lot to do with the hardware, but the PS4 UI was painfully slow, and perhaps even more so on 4Pro (as every time you come out of a game it had to shift data out of the slow RAM into the main RAM - something that doesn't cause an issue on 5Pro). But, I also find PS5 less cumbersome.
@ElPenitente I never had a PS3, and didn't spend long enough on one to comment. But I did have a PS4 / 4Pro, and was certainly not disappointed when I first saw the PS5 UI.
Personally, I've always thought PS5 was a much better UI system than PS4. Much easier to get to where I want to go for things, and quickly see what I want to see.
Not to mention that the PS4 UI was really slow and clunky (almost broken feeling at times near the end of the gen), but thats likely more to do with the SSD, and memory transfer speed.
Themes were OK, but I like the individual game windows - particularly if they have their own music (which a lot of the games I play do).
The welcome page is decent enough, with a couple of widgets I like to use.
The trouble is (as I see it), that Sony mentioned about retailers selling digital codes, yet some clearly did not read / listen to that part. So if Sony do speak out, how much will get 'missed' or 'misinterpreted'.
It is a very difficult one, and they will have to tell people their plans at some point.
@MidnightDragonDX I think it will calm down after a bit. You can already see that a lot of people are getting tired of all of the sillyness.
And, I do (very much) agree with your point that people should vote with their wallets. But as I said earlier today, I wonder if that is having any impact, or if people are 'making exceptions' (like keeping / making pre orders for certain digital only games) thinking Sony can't see this behaviour.
@ButteredCrumpet
If it were me, I would have given more info in the first place.
However, after the vocal backlash, I probably would have gone silent - why bother when some won't listen. And I would likely stay silent until things calmed down.
Btw, you forgot that those trophies aren't permanent and can be removed by Sony at any time. Lol.
@Northern_munkey I'm not p*ssed either. In fact the only thing that even annoys me is how badly a few of those in support of this "cause' have behaved.
I'm just waiting until we get some answers to their plans around digital.
@Zuljaras And there is NO evidence to suggest Sony will have or are after a monopoly.
In fact, the opposite is true and there is evidence against this - the already stated digital codes available for retailers to sell - thus no monopoly.
(Not to mention, I'm quite sure Sony and their legal team know they wouldn't be allowed to get away with a monopoly).
@LogicStrikesAgain I have been saying similar (that people should vote with their wallets) for a while now.
I'm going to be a bit harsh (not to you!) and suggest that there just aren't enough people buying physical, even now with all the noise, to even significantly register.
Either that, or people have been making 'exceptions' (eg keeping their pre orders of all digital games), thinking Sony can't easily see what % of people who mostly buy physical will make exceptions...
@ButteredCrumpet There is just 1 other point I will make - more and more over recent days I have started to think that a lot of the more 'extreme reactions' we are seeing are actually just anti-Sony, from fans of other systems.
I'm NOT talking about most of those I have conversed with on this site, or some of those I haven't. I am however talking about some of the behaviour I have seen referenced in articles.
It reminds me of how some (particularly PC / Xbox fans) would post incessantly here negatively about the Pro (and to a lesser extent the basePS5) - its like they were scared of it. Admittedly, once Pro was available a few people I knew who were PC gamers, gave up with PC, and bought Pros. (The main reasons they cited were being fed up of PC compatibility issues / errors and the frequency of online cheating).
I am getting that same vibe again. I have genuinely thought that there are some trying to use this to desperately attract people away from Playstation as a system.
@Ristar24
"I'd say though that wanting to maintain an option is far from extreme by default, depending on how people choose to articulate that perspective of course."
I am 100% talking about how SOME have chosen to articulate, not the point itself.
" I also think being upfront would probably have seen off a lot of that 'extreme' speculation if ..."
No argument from me there. I was just discussing that with Mr/Ms Crumpet. I agree we shouldn't expect all details at this stage, but Sony's communication lacked answers to foreseeable questions and was pretty bad in my opinion.
As I said, I am still on the fence overall about this - I'm sad discs are going. But I will be on that fence until we know concrete info - we actually know very little at all for certain.
@ButteredCrumpet "I would also state it is a year and a half away"
That is also very true, and you are quite correct - we shouldn't expect all the details yet. I just know though that I wouldn't bother giving any details in the current 'climate'.
I do think Sony was pretty stupid in the way they dropped the news with very little additional info - most of the big questions were easily foreseeable. But then, Sony's communication / marketing has in my opinion been awful for a few years now. The example I use is the Pro announcement, without the specs / teardown (the base console had), given the intended audience. Great machine, crap communication, and a waste of Cerny.
The trouble is that some people are coming to all sorts of conclusions, when we literally know virtually nothing.
Take a point I was discussing earlier, the resale market. We know in all likelihood this will be over, although it is not certain there won't be some way to trade in digital, it's unlikely imo. But the biggest gainers I see here are the devs, not Sony.
We don't even know there wont be an optional disc drive for PS6 - for PS4/5 collections. People are assuming this, but I want to hear it from Sony before I make that conclusion.
One thing I am reasonably sure of, given how on the ball Sony's legal team were with the social media ban for children (acting before the announcement), is that their legal team will be all over any of their plans.
@Ristar24 That is totally your choice, however in regards to:
"Appears to me that centralising profit and locking people into their store is the driving force here."
That is one thing we know very little about, and is probably the least likely negative here. Other retailers, by law, have to have the ability to sell games - Sony have already said about retailers selling digital codes. We just don't have the details yet. The only exception to this may be their games, as they likely can sell them where they like, and exclusive to their store.
Maybe once some of the more 'extreme voices' have calmed, Sony might start talking about this.
@ShadowRJ Games probably were going to rise to £80 soon. Maybe this helps put that back by getting more money into devs hands rather than the resale market, and removing some of the manufacturing/ shipping costs associated with discs.
I take your point: " but I can't imagine any business not going "hey, Rockstar are charging £80 for GTA 6. Why aren't we doing that." ".
But I'm sorry, I cannot see how Physical discs sold by retailers reduces the risk of this over Digital codes sold by retailers.
@ShadowRJ There will be an alternative market - Sony have already said about digital codes sold by retailers (they need to detail this better though). If there wasn't an alternative there would be a monopoly, and Sony wouldn't be allowed that, and they are well aware of this.
If games can't be resold, it means that those gamers will likely be more careful when purchasing - which is the enemy of devs looking to fix after launch.
@Ristar24
I'm still on the fence about this overall, but (to me) a big positive of physical games disappearing is the loss of the 2nd hand / resale market.
It's not just Sony who miss out when games are resold rather than purchased new, its the dev teams, and a lot of developers are struggling at the moment.
Removing this 2nd hand market may potentially help delay the rise to £80 for full price games.
It might also help persuade devs to ensure their games launch in a complete / polished state - as I'm sure more customers will be being careful when buying games they can't resell.
@DennisReynolds "People forget Sony have the data of every single PS account"
It would not surprise me in the slightest if Sony knew exactly what % of those who normally buy Physical, will make exceptions, and for example pre-order GTA6.
@Swirly Fair enough - it was worth a try as I think there are a lot of people who have mobile on contract who don't realise nearly all the fuss can easily be bypassed.
@ButteredCrumpet @Swirly When I did my age verification I did it differently. I did it through a new setting on the console itself (which has now disappeared after I did it - I think it was in the account section).
I chose to go the phone route, and after checking my number (which they already had), they sent a number via txt to my mobile to confirm on screen on the PS5, and that was it - no face scan or anything else.
I'm in the UK, and have a monthly contract for txt/msg/data only (not device). I assume/guess it works by them checking with the mobile operator - bearing in mind to have a contract in your name (matching the PSN account) you have to be 18+ by law.
@LowDefAl Taking your analogy, I think they are changing their minds each time after the stone mason has already begun. They started off with a decent block of stone - now they are down to a pebble!
I'm all for people voting with their wallet - if physical supporters want Sony to take notice, and there are indeed enough of them, they need to not buy any AAA / AA game except full physical (without exception), and see if this affects sales enough to give Sony something to think about.
But this ridiculous harassment online is going too far, and its 'scartershot' approach, which now seems to accept collateral damage is not doing this 'cause' any favours. I'm no longer convinced a large proportion complaining aren't just other systems fanboys.
If this carries on, I wonder if Sony will bring forwards their plans and stop physical copies (much) earlier than planned.
@Mostik "With arms that big it must have been some accident!"
Actually, in my experience, its perfectly normal to see what looks like very little, cause a major injury like this. Flexibility in the muscles can help, but larger muscles don't always help.
One of the biggest concerns - and I am certainly not saying it is the case here - is if someone only works on limited muscles in order to improve looks etc, as other muscles / joints can be put under greater strain if not equally developed.
Just as an odd anecdote, when I used to buy disc based games, it was usually from dedicated games stores.
The reason I stopped buying from these stores was because (with the exception of Pre-orders) they started taking the discs out of the boxes, and storing them in cupboards / draws. Some of them were so badly stored the discs looked like they were 2nd hand so I refused to buy them at full price.
@get2sammyb Scattershot hate is wrong, but a sad consequence of things like social media. I do not even have a twitter(X) account.
You guys have been very much creating articles in support of Physical (if I am being honest, maybe a tiny bit too much - but that is just an opinion). There is no way this 'protest' should be taking aim at yourselves in any way.
I am all for (legal & moral obviously) targeted action ie not buying digital only games (AAA or AA), including those where only part of the code on the disc. However this scattershot hate by some is not appropriate, and they are doing their 'cause' no favours.
Targeting (by not buying) digital only games, or games which cannot be played from the disc because they need a massive download - that seems fair, and the right way to protest - voting with your wallet.
Though indies and very small devs who never release physical versions (because of their size) should not be targeted.
But the messaging has got to be correct...
If the message amounts to little more than 'buy digital on PC etc, but not on PS5', then they are going to lose support very quickly. The message has to be "No Physical, No buy" or similar.
Similarly, if Sony post about a game that has proper physical versions, then the users should buy and promote the physical version.
@DennisReynolds "and people think MS will stay physical"
100% agree with you. This just seems like another example of Xbox's wish to go full digital.
For as much as I am on the fence about Sony stopping supporting Physical, I am fully against what Xbox have done here. At least Sony have been honest - a disk without the full game on it feels just wrong to me, and it feels like we see this a lot from Xbox.
Then you have the Series S which I don't think has an option to add a drive, Gamepass, and even the XBox One announcement (yes, they back peddled but that doesn't mean it is not relevant). I'm sure there are more that I can't remember too.
Comments 4,111
Re: 'It's Setting Up for Something So Amazing': Sony Confirms New God of War Starring Kratos
@The_Hooligan
You are quite right of course - it just feels like a bit of a cop out, particularly regarding Odin and Brok.
Brok's soul was lost as it was only 3/4 complete, so I suppose it could have traveled here by accident, but that doesn't help Sindri.
Odin is more complicated.
We were led to believe that Odins soul was destroyed completely, via the smashing of the sphere Atreus had trapped his soul in.
But then they put in that (imo foreshadowing) scene of Atreus meeting the 2nd Raven (the 1st being dead). If I am correct, that raven now contains Odins soul, which wasn't destroyed - it escaped when the sphere was smashed and entered the Raven Odin was already bound with.
For him to end up meeting Laufey, the Raven would need to be killed, thus freeing Odins soul to pass on.
On top of this, by the end of Ragnarok, Atreus was positioned as the key protagonist as far as Odin was concerned. All 3 hurt him, but it was Atreus that destroyed the mask which was so important to Odin, then finished him off (not counting Sindri's sphere smashing revenge). Also it was Atreus he had spent quite a long time with over the course of the story.
Thematically it would have made sense, if Odin survived, for him (though weakened) to be the main antagonist for an Atreus spin off. The father (Kratos) has already defeated the leader of 1 pantheon of gods, now the son will defeat the leader of another pantheon.
You also have the dual name theme - Atreus was Loki to Odin, and there was the scene at the end where Kratos states that Loki is leaving (on his adventure), while Atreus remains (in Kratos' heart).
Re: 'It's Setting Up for Something So Amazing': Sony Confirms New God of War Starring Kratos
Still quite annoyed we aren't getting an Atreus spin off first.
There were a lot of loose threads at the end of Ragnarok, including:
Not to mention the whole GOWR game felt like a passing of the torch.
And, unlike a few, I liked the Atreus character - he still had some growing to do of course, but that was kind of the whole point - he was very young. I actually thought he had far more mileage left as a character than Kratos.
Re: PS5's Next Big Exclusive Dated, and It's Closer Than You Think
@Boxmonkey
Just to add to what @Shepherd_Tallon said, make sure you do the side content quite near the end of ragnarok, in the crater area of vanaheim.
The only way to access this area is to do a side quest called "scent of survival", where you have to follow a dog. This then opens out a whole section of the map.
There is some interesting lore about Laufey in this area, which I can only assume will link to the new game.
Re: PSN Was Down for 6+ Hours, But All Services Now Up and Running
@Pat_trick
"You're defining 'more choice' purely as 'more purchasing configurations,' while ignoring the quality of those choices."
Before this generation, Customers did not have the option of buying a Sony console without a disc drive - by them introducing optional drives everyone now has that choice.
That is not a buying configuration- that is a new option/choice.
They first did this with 2 separate models, which was not ideal as you couldn't easily add a disc drive later if you originally bought digital and changed their mind. They remedied that with Slim and Pro.
Are these extra choices in favour of digital users - yes, but not at the real detriment physical buyers. Of course they wanted to add more options for digital users - why would anyone want to pay extra for a disc drive they are not going to use, and with digital users increasing, and physical buyers decreasing, they had to act and increase options.
"But physical buyers lost an integrated drive and gained a separate purchase, an online activation requirement, and another piece of hardware that depends on Sony's continued support."
These things aren't exactly difficult to fit, and they come with a nice cover that perfectly integrates them. Its not like they need connecting with a cable away from the console taking up additional space. They need a one time connection to link.
Even if every PS5 had a disc drive, Sony would still be able to stop supporting discs in a year and a half.
In terms of the future.
I am still on the fence about their decision to stop supporting discs, and I will be until I see what plans they have in regards to digital.
I understand Sony's decision will upset those who still only buy discs.
I will add though that some of the extreme silliness I have heard and read does not really endear this cause to me, and that includes people attacking / insulting those who don't see Sony's decision as wrong. There has been some incredibly bad behaviour from some, even here on this site (in comments sections).
To a lot of people, Sony's decision is just the next logical step due to decreasing physical sales. I am not quite in this 'camp" either though.
I said, from pretty early on that if physical users want to send a message to Sony, they should do this in a noticeable way, refusing to buy digital (particularly in the case of games like GTA6 where there is no other option). I would even extend this to games that don't put the whole code on the disc, although I would not include Indie/ small dev teams who realistically have no choice.
If there truly are enough people to whom discs are important, Sony will notice.
The trouble is other options people are taking are not being helpful. The bombarding of comments may just look like a loud angry minority. Boycotting Sony games will actually skew sales heavily towards Digital (if physical buyers don't buy, digital buyers still will). And 'kicking the can down the road' when people say they won't buy PS6 won't be noticed by anyone.
Re: PSN Down for 6+ Hours, PS Store Still Being Repaired
@Pat_trick
I'm not confusing anything.
And to reiterate, as per my original post, I am not talking about what happens in a year and a half (as we do not know the full details yet) - I am talking purely about the change to make the disc drive an optional add on, as you were in the post I replied to.
Customers didnt have the choice to save some money and buy a console without a disc drive, and now (after this change to disc drives being optional), customers do. That is more choice.
What's more, from the slim onwards Sony made it so that even if you want to add (or replace) a disc drive later, you could - more choice.
You have had (for years) the option to buy a console with a disc drive, and you still do. Thus "preserving the functionality people already had". I don't see a one off linking as much of an inconvenience.
I didn't say that the move to optional disc drives had increased choice for Physical buyers - I said it had increased choice for consumers / gamers ie overall.
It is yourself that is blinded by your own point of view, as you seem to only consider physical buyers.
I'm not even considering that physical disc purchases are now firmly in the minority.
The decision to make the disc drive optional did not remove any choice from yourself as a physical disc user, but it gave extra choice to those who don't want a disc drive, thus overall, choice was increased.
Re: 007 First Light Updated with New TacSim Missions, Available Now on PS5
My number 2 GOTY so far, just behind RE Requiem, and finally a very Bond feeling 007 game.
Re: PSN Down for 4+ Hours, Sony 'Working to Resolve Issues'
@Pat_trick
No, I see much greater choice in the current situation.
Now, I (and many others) don't have to pay extra for a console, just to have a disc drive that I am not going to use.
But, if I were to suddenly decide I wanted a drive, I can buy one and add it on (with a simple, one time only verification).
That's adding flexibility and choice for me as a consumer, and saving me money as well!
Re: PSN Down for 4+ Hours, Sony 'Working to Resolve Issues'
@ShadowRJ
RE your post #180
I'm fully with you on the subject of optional drives.
Back when I had an Xbox360, I had 2 consoles die from disc drive errors. (It didn't do Xbox any favours when I made my decision to return to Sony for PS4).
1 under warranty, 1 not - even though the first didn't cost me anything, it was still a hassle. A replaceable disc drive would have saved me a lot of money/hassle.
PS I also agree with you on games that become non functional due to devs shutting down servers, when parts of them can be 'saved'.
Re: PSN Down for 4+ Hours, Sony 'Working to Resolve Issues'
@Pat_trick
Its a fantastic thing that Sony removed the disc drive.
Now a lot of people don't have to pay for a disc drive they will never use.
If you want a disc drive, you can buy one and add it on.
If Sony were not to offer an Optional add on disc drive for PS6, and with no method of converting a disc into a digital licence, I would say that would be a bit silly on their part due to some users's disc based back catalogues. BUT, this is not a reality yet - we know nothing of their plans in this area.
Re: PSN Down for 4+ Hours, Sony 'Working to Resolve Issues'
Just rechecked, and things are sometimes working, but only intermittently.
I am still having no issue whatsoever launching games bought digitally.
Still having issues with:
Re: PSN Down But Slowly Recovering After Amazon Web Services Outage
Just booted up for 1st time today (after update 2 above)
Re: There's No Doubt About It, Wolverine PS5 Looks Awesome
@Boucho11
I think you have misread what I was saying.
My point was that the physical supporters who are trying to boycott Sony / this game are not doing themselves / their cause any good whatsoever.
Re: There's No Doubt About It, Wolverine PS5 Looks Awesome
@ShadowRJ
And I'm sorry but genuine Physical Supporters should support and campaign for the Physical version of this game, and boycott any AAA (or maybe AA) game that doesn't have a physical version instead.
Anything else, and they will prove Sony right, and destroy their own cause: ie if Physical supporters don't buy, digital gamers still will, and this will massively skew the sales figures towards Digital. If overall sales are affected, Sony won't notice - they will just think there is less interest in Wolverine or something similar.
Re: There's No Doubt About It, Wolverine PS5 Looks Awesome
Loved the Spiderman games, and really looking forwards to this one.
(The only other thing to add is that Insomniac really are the absolute pinnacle when it comes to technical standards, visuals and performance)
Re: My Most Anticipated 'Train Sim World 6' Route Is Finally Almost Out on PS5
@get2sammyb
Everyone's an editor these days!
(And I too am just having a friendly laugh)
Re: Horizon PS5 Remaster Updated for Probable PS6 Handheld Support
@Swandivetotheasphalt @wildcat_kickz
I thought we had already seen provisional specs and that the handheld was indeed somewhat less powerful than base PS5 - though it may have the ability to run a version of PSSR, which if so, could be a game changer. I might be wrong and am only going off memory.
Re: Horizon PS5 Remaster Updated for Probable PS6 Handheld Support
I want MORE POWER!
(Sorry, I had to)
Re: STALKER 2 Dev Refutes Claims About Xbox's Funding for Timed Exclusivity
I agree with what a few others have said - they may talk about someone providing the majority of the original budget and that the comments "cannot be considered an accurate reflection", however, at no point do they outright state that Xbox didn't pay a sum for exclusivity that was greater than the development cost of the game.
To me, this just gives credence to the original comments made about how much Xbox paid. They say a lot, but don't actually deny the claim made.
Re: New PS5 Firmware Update Is Available to Download Now, Here's What It Does
@TheArt
Very true.
I got a tiny bit bored of themes - I think I actually prefer the individual game windows / backgrounds (particularly with music).
It was nice when Sony added the anniversary themes for PS5, but I soon reverted to standard. I also used the log fire background on the welcome screen over Xmas.
It probably does have a lot to do with the hardware, but the PS4 UI was painfully slow, and perhaps even more so on 4Pro (as every time you come out of a game it had to shift data out of the slow RAM into the main RAM - something that doesn't cause an issue on 5Pro).
But, I also find PS5 less cumbersome.
Re: Prime Yourself for Marvel's Wolverine on PS5 with This Prequel Comic
As others have said, it would have been better if the comic was included in game, or maybe as part of the digital deluxe release.
Re: New PS5 Firmware Update Is Available to Download Now, Here's What It Does
@ElPenitente
I never had a PS3, and didn't spend long enough on one to comment.
But I did have a PS4 / 4Pro, and was certainly not disappointed when I first saw the PS5 UI.
Re: New PS5 Firmware Update Is Available to Download Now, Here's What It Does
I never understood the dislike of the PS5 UI.
Personally, I've always thought PS5 was a much better UI system than PS4. Much easier to get to where I want to go for things, and quickly see what I want to see.
Not to mention that the PS4 UI was really slow and clunky (almost broken feeling at times near the end of the gen), but thats likely more to do with the SSD, and memory transfer speed.
Themes were OK, but I like the individual game windows - particularly if they have their own music (which a lot of the games I play do).
The welcome page is decent enough, with a couple of widgets I like to use.
The only loss from PS4 was folders.
Re: Sony Imposes 'Strictest Ever Social Media Guidelines' on Staff Due to PS5 Disc Debacle
@ShadowRJ
That is a very fair point.
The trouble is (as I see it), that Sony mentioned about retailers selling digital codes, yet some clearly did not read / listen to that part. So if Sony do speak out, how much will get 'missed' or 'misinterpreted'.
It is a very difficult one, and they will have to tell people their plans at some point.
Re: Sony Imposes 'Strictest Ever Social Media Guidelines' on Staff Due to PS5 Disc Debacle
@MidnightDragonDX
I think it will calm down after a bit.
You can already see that a lot of people are getting tired of all of the sillyness.
And, I do (very much) agree with your point that people should vote with their wallets. But as I said earlier today, I wonder if that is having any impact, or if people are 'making exceptions' (like keeping / making pre orders for certain digital only games) thinking Sony can't see this behaviour.
Re: Sony Imposes 'Strictest Ever Social Media Guidelines' on Staff Due to PS5 Disc Debacle
@ButteredCrumpet
If it were me, I would have given more info in the first place.
However, after the vocal backlash, I probably would have gone silent - why bother when some won't listen. And I would likely stay silent until things calmed down.
Btw, you forgot that those trophies aren't permanent and can be removed by Sony at any time. Lol.
Re: Sony Imposes 'Strictest Ever Social Media Guidelines' on Staff Due to PS5 Disc Debacle
@Northern_munkey
I'm not p*ssed either.
In fact the only thing that even annoys me is how badly a few of those in support of this "cause' have behaved.
I'm just waiting until we get some answers to their plans around digital.
Re: US PS5 Sales Down Almost 20% Year-Over-Year, Rounds Out Tough Month for Industry
19% down at this point in the generation seems pretty expected, if not good going. I seem to remember Sony going all out to sell units last year.
Re: 'They May As Well Eliminate the Hardware Too': Japanese Dev Says Sony 'Doesn't Understand' the Feelings of Fans
@Zuljaras
And there is NO evidence to suggest Sony will have or are after a monopoly.
In fact, the opposite is true and there is evidence against this - the already stated digital codes available for retailers to sell - thus no monopoly.
(Not to mention, I'm quite sure Sony and their legal team know they wouldn't be allowed to get away with a monopoly).
Re: 'They May As Well Eliminate the Hardware Too': Japanese Dev Says Sony 'Doesn't Understand' the Feelings of Fans
@LogicStrikesAgain
I have been saying similar (that people should vote with their wallets) for a while now.
I'm going to be a bit harsh (not to you!) and suggest that there just aren't enough people buying physical, even now with all the noise, to even significantly register.
Either that, or people have been making 'exceptions' (eg keeping their pre orders of all digital games), thinking Sony can't easily see what % of people who mostly buy physical will make exceptions...
Re: 'They May As Well Eliminate the Hardware Too': Japanese Dev Says Sony 'Doesn't Understand' the Feelings of Fans
People will still be able to get the digital code card / box signed, display it or decorate their rooms with them.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@ButteredCrumpet
There is just 1 other point I will make - more and more over recent days I have started to think that a lot of the more 'extreme reactions' we are seeing are actually just anti-Sony, from fans of other systems.
I'm NOT talking about most of those I have conversed with on this site, or some of those I haven't. I am however talking about some of the behaviour I have seen referenced in articles.
It reminds me of how some (particularly PC / Xbox fans) would post incessantly here negatively about the Pro (and to a lesser extent the basePS5) - its like they were scared of it.
Admittedly, once Pro was available a few people I knew who were PC gamers, gave up with PC, and bought Pros. (The main reasons they cited were being fed up of PC compatibility issues / errors and the frequency of online cheating).
I am getting that same vibe again. I have genuinely thought that there are some trying to use this to desperately attract people away from Playstation as a system.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Ristar24
"I'd say though that wanting to maintain an option is far from extreme by default, depending on how people choose to articulate that perspective of course."
I am 100% talking about how SOME have chosen to articulate, not the point itself.
" I also think being upfront would probably have seen off a lot of that 'extreme' speculation if ..."
No argument from me there. I was just discussing that with Mr/Ms Crumpet. I agree we shouldn't expect all details at this stage, but Sony's communication lacked answers to foreseeable questions and was pretty bad in my opinion.
As I said, I am still on the fence overall about this - I'm sad discs are going. But I will be on that fence until we know concrete info - we actually know very little at all for certain.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@ButteredCrumpet
"I would also state it is a year and a half away"
That is also very true, and you are quite correct - we shouldn't expect all the details yet. I just know though that I wouldn't bother giving any details in the current 'climate'.
I do think Sony was pretty stupid in the way they dropped the news with very little additional info - most of the big questions were easily foreseeable.
But then, Sony's communication / marketing has in my opinion been awful for a few years now.
The example I use is the Pro announcement, without the specs / teardown (the base console had), given the intended audience. Great machine, crap communication, and a waste of Cerny.
The trouble is that some people are coming to all sorts of conclusions, when we literally know virtually nothing.
Take a point I was discussing earlier, the resale market. We know in all likelihood this will be over, although it is not certain there won't be some way to trade in digital, it's unlikely imo. But the biggest gainers I see here are the devs, not Sony.
We don't even know there wont be an optional disc drive for PS6 - for PS4/5 collections. People are assuming this, but I want to hear it from Sony before I make that conclusion.
One thing I am reasonably sure of, given how on the ball Sony's legal team were with the social media ban for children (acting before the announcement), is that their legal team will be all over any of their plans.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Ristar24
That is totally your choice, however in regards to:
"Appears to me that centralising profit and locking people into their store is the driving force here."
That is one thing we know very little about, and is probably the least likely negative here.
Other retailers, by law, have to have the ability to sell games - Sony have already said about retailers selling digital codes. We just don't have the details yet.
The only exception to this may be their games, as they likely can sell them where they like, and exclusive to their store.
Maybe once some of the more 'extreme voices' have calmed, Sony might start talking about this.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@ShadowRJ
Games probably were going to rise to £80 soon.
Maybe this helps put that back by getting more money into devs hands rather than the resale market, and removing some of the manufacturing/ shipping costs associated with discs.
I take your point: " but I can't imagine any business not going "hey, Rockstar are charging £80 for GTA 6. Why aren't we doing that." ".
But I'm sorry, I cannot see how Physical discs sold by retailers reduces the risk of this over Digital codes sold by retailers.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@ShadowRJ
There will be an alternative market - Sony have already said about digital codes sold by retailers (they need to detail this better though). If there wasn't an alternative there would be a monopoly, and Sony wouldn't be allowed that, and they are well aware of this.
If games can't be resold, it means that those gamers will likely be more careful when purchasing - which is the enemy of devs looking to fix after launch.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Zuljaras
In regards your comment about "release now, fix later"
You get that problem at the moment with physical games as well. The version on the disc still needs a day 1 patch / future patches.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Ristar24
I'm still on the fence about this overall, but (to me) a big positive of physical games disappearing is the loss of the 2nd hand / resale market.
It's not just Sony who miss out when games are resold rather than purchased new, its the dev teams, and a lot of developers are struggling at the moment.
Removing this 2nd hand market may potentially help delay the rise to £80 for full price games.
It might also help persuade devs to ensure their games launch in a complete / polished state - as I'm sure more customers will be being careful when buying games they can't resell.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@DennisReynolds
"People forget Sony have the data of every single PS account"
It would not surprise me in the slightest if Sony knew exactly what % of those who normally buy Physical, will make exceptions, and for example pre-order GTA6.
Re: Insomniac's Spider-Man Games 'a Great Inspiration' for Brand New Day, Says Director
Both SM MM and SM2 rank in my top 10 games this gen.
Can't wait to see what they make of Wolverine.
Re: 'It Isn't Something Carved in Stone': Xbox Still Unclear on Future PS5 Ports
@Swirly
Fair enough - it was worth a try as I think there are a lot of people who have mobile on contract who don't realise nearly all the fuss can easily be bypassed.
Re: 'It Isn't Something Carved in Stone': Xbox Still Unclear on Future PS5 Ports
@ButteredCrumpet @Swirly
When I did my age verification I did it differently.
I did it through a new setting on the console itself (which has now disappeared after I did it - I think it was in the account section).
I chose to go the phone route, and after checking my number (which they already had), they sent a number via txt to my mobile to confirm on screen on the PS5, and that was it - no face scan or anything else.
I'm in the UK, and have a monthly contract for txt/msg/data only (not device). I assume/guess it works by them checking with the mobile operator - bearing in mind to have a contract in your name (matching the PSN account) you have to be 18+ by law.
Re: 'It Isn't Something Carved in Stone': Xbox Still Unclear on Future PS5 Ports
@LowDefAl
Taking your analogy, I think they are changing their minds each time after the stone mason has already begun.
They started off with a decent block of stone - now they are down to a pebble!
Re: 'It Isn't Something Carved in Stone': Xbox Still Unclear on Future PS5 Ports
I have a cunning plan!
(And it sounds like they are using one of Baldricks plans)
Re: Indie Devs Unfairly Attacked Over Sony Decision to Stop Making Discs
I'm all for people voting with their wallet - if physical supporters want Sony to take notice, and there are indeed enough of them, they need to not buy any AAA / AA game except full physical (without exception), and see if this affects sales enough to give Sony something to think about.
But this ridiculous harassment online is going too far, and its 'scartershot' approach, which now seems to accept collateral damage is not doing this 'cause' any favours. I'm no longer convinced a large proportion complaining aren't just other systems fanboys.
If this carries on, I wonder if Sony will bring forwards their plans and stop physical copies (much) earlier than planned.
Re: God of War Show's Kratos to Be Recast After Ryan Hurst Suffers Injury During Filming
@Mostik
"With arms that big it must have been some accident!"
Actually, in my experience, its perfectly normal to see what looks like very little, cause a major injury like this.
Flexibility in the muscles can help, but larger muscles don't always help.
One of the biggest concerns - and I am certainly not saying it is the case here - is if someone only works on limited muscles in order to improve looks etc, as other muscles / joints can be put under greater strain if not equally developed.
Re: 'It's Totally, Totally Irrelevant': GameStop Boss Unfazed by Sony's Physical Discs Decision
Just as an odd anecdote, when I used to buy disc based games, it was usually from dedicated games stores.
The reason I stopped buying from these stores was because (with the exception of Pre-orders) they started taking the discs out of the boxes, and storing them in cupboards / draws.
Some of them were so badly stored the discs looked like they were 2nd hand so I refused to buy them at full price.
Re: Irate PlayStation Fans Want You to Buy Games Anywhere But PS5
@get2sammyb
Scattershot hate is wrong, but a sad consequence of things like social media. I do not even have a twitter(X) account.
You guys have been very much creating articles in support of Physical (if I am being honest, maybe a tiny bit too much - but that is just an opinion). There is no way this 'protest' should be taking aim at yourselves in any way.
I am all for (legal & moral obviously) targeted action ie not buying digital only games (AAA or AA), including those where only part of the code on the disc.
However this scattershot hate by some is not appropriate, and they are doing their 'cause' no favours.
Re: Irate PlayStation Fans Want You to Buy Games Anywhere But PS5
Sorry, this feels a bit pathetic to me.
Targeting (by not buying) digital only games, or games which cannot be played from the disc because they need a massive download - that seems fair, and the right way to protest - voting with your wallet.
Though indies and very small devs who never release physical versions (because of their size) should not be targeted.
But the messaging has got to be correct...
If the message amounts to little more than 'buy digital on PC etc, but not on PS5', then they are going to lose support very quickly. The message has to be "No Physical, No buy" or similar.
Similarly, if Sony post about a game that has proper physical versions, then the users should buy and promote the physical version.
Re: Halo's Physical PS5 Disc Won't Play without a Download
@DennisReynolds
"and people think MS will stay physical"
100% agree with you.
This just seems like another example of Xbox's wish to go full digital.
For as much as I am on the fence about Sony stopping supporting Physical, I am fully against what Xbox have done here. At least Sony have been honest - a disk without the full game on it feels just wrong to me, and it feels like we see this a lot from Xbox.
Then you have the Series S which I don't think has an option to add a drive, Gamepass, and even the XBox One announcement (yes, they back peddled but that doesn't mean it is not relevant). I'm sure there are more that I can't remember too.