
Video games have never been more diverse than they are today, but at the top end, risk-averse publishers tend to get a glint in their eye whenever they spot a trend.
It leads to periods of time dominated by very similar titles; just look at the rise of Souls-likes, or how many free-to-play shooters are chasing the Fortnite money.
It's something that seems to concern Josef Fares, top dog at Hazelight Studios and director of co-op hits It Takes Two and Split Fiction.
Speaking in an interview with The Game Business, Fares talks about the need for diverse games at every level of production, in light of how well Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 has done on its relatively modest budget.
"You do hear, after the success of things like Clair Obscur: Expedition 33, that the AA games are taking over. But I would not be able to live without a AAA title," Fares says.
"I really want to play the blockbuster games. You can't do GTA for $10 million. We need both. It's important not to get stuck in ideas, like AA is a new thing, or indie is a new thing, or 'blah, blah, blah' is a new thing. We need the diversity. I hope that publishers don’t just look at a game like Expedition, which has been super successful, and think, 'oh, AA is a new thing. Let’s only do that.' I don't believe in that. You had a huge amount of AA games that came this year, which nobody cared about. Let's remember that."
Interviewer Christopher Dring responds that it's more difficult to take creative risks in the AAA space, but Fares says otherwise.
"I would argue that, actually, Naughty Dog is pushing the envelope of innovation with a AAA budget," he says. "I would argue Rockstar is doing it. Nintendo is, most of the time, doing it. So you can do a big AAA title but also take innovative risks."
Fares concedes that once you get into the hundreds of millions of dollars, it becomes a scarier proposition, but that creative ideas in AAA can find success. "People are more scared. It's understandable. But it's proven that you can do it."
Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 is said to have been made on a budget of around $10 million, and it went on to find huge sales success, unanimous praise in reviews, and countless awards. It proves you don't need to spend outrageous sums of money to make something successful.
However, Fares is arguing that one success story doesn't guarantee the same for other games following in its footsteps.
What do you think? Do you agree with Fares? Tell us in the comments section below.
[source thegamebusiness.com]





Comments 31
If only PlayStation could embrace AA again.
"It proves you don't need to spend outrageous sums of money to make something successful." I'm glad £10 million isn't an outrageous amount of money. Maybe today that sum of money isn't an outrageous amount but to me it's a ludicrous sum of money. I don't know maybe I'm just getting old.
He does make a lot of sense in the full interview. But no, let’s keep handing hundreds of millions to ex-Riot/Infinity Ward/Bungie devs to make an extraction shooter that doesn’t even last a year.
I’m not a saint gamer so i couldn’t care less about indie crap, i halfway agree with him - but i want diversity in AAA games again and AA. Indies can kick rocks, never really liked them but a small few & i don’t buy next gen consoles or tech to play some cheap indies
One of the key points he seems to be making is that trends don't guarantee success. Not every shooter is Fortnite, not every AA game is Clair Obscur, not every AAA is GTA.
Make the game that makes sense, with the budget that makes sense, given the specific circumstances. Developers need to focus on doing whatever it is THEY do well, as well as they can, and not try to chase whatever the latest trend is and shoehorn it into whatever they're doing.
Aaa devs are very worried about this trend to indie and aa games. Also most aaa devs don’t make anything anywhere near the level of gta! In fact no one in the entire industry makes a game close to rock* level. I would consider them the only aaaa dev
Some of the greatest games of all time were born out of extremely tight budget constraints and looming deadlines. Other times hundreds of millions of dollars and years of polish are just what the doctor ordered. Either method (and everything in between) can produce fantastic results, if the developer(s) are passionate and skilled. And that’s a big IF
It just depends on the vision and passion of the developers. I've had great times with some AAA titles, although my favorite games are usually the smaller "I can finish them in a couple hours instead of months repeating the same mission types over and over" formulaic games. (Still looking at you Ubisoft). I find smaller studios typically take more risks. Unfortunately, corporate politics and shareholders almost always play it safe and try to repeat past successes.
So big budgets don’t necessarily mean great games. Lessons learnt?
Absolutely agree with him. If sites like Eurogamer had its way, the games industry would only make indie games.
Someone makes a weird albeit cool looking 5hr game.
Eurogamer: 10/10 masterpiece, Game of the Year.
@RoomWithaMoose After all their AA efforts from the PS4 era were trashed and didn't sell?
@ButterySmooth30FPS Yes. Why would I care how their AA efforts from the past went? I want AA games from Sony. Sony can still figure out how to sell AA games. As referenced in this very article, there are successful AA games; Sony can also make successful AA games. So they should do that.
Your weird justification of current circumstances doesn't prove anything. What, would you rather we only get 3 games from PlayStation a year that are mostly derivative of established IP or gameplay formulas?
In comparison Balatro was done with thousands of dollars (although the figure wasn't made public, it wasn't millions) and became profitable within one hour of release.
I'm still confused as to where the line is drawn between AA and AAA these days, so whilst I tend towards games that have been very well made on a technical front - with good framerates a priority, nice graphics, and that use the hardware well - I couldn't care less whether a game is classed as AA or AAA!
In fact, I'm not even convinced a classification of AA or AAA is relevant these days - its just a sliding scale.
@RoomWithaMoose I'm just pointing that people say this here all the time yet didn't buy or play these kinds of games when Sony DID make them.
Personally? I find a bunch of indie games really boring. Oh another roguelike, cozy game with light metroidvania elements and just a ton of meta commentary regarding the genre. Obviously you get the Undertales, Blue Prince, Balatros, Hollow Knight but it isn't a surprise when 5000 new games on Steam last year didn't even earn their 100usd fee back.
In terms of AA? EA really did give it a shot these last few years.. Immortals of Aveum, the monster hunter-like from KT which EA published. Games are risky and sadly sometimes things just don't click. Look at Kunitsu-Gami from Capcom a experimental, well rated AA game. Outside of the hardcore how many actually heard of it? Clair Obscur was a genuine anomaly and the big credit goes to Microsoft for the placement of that trailer in the first reveal. It built hype in a way we hadn't seen since E3.
With AAA, when you take risks with the narrative you get death threats. You are ridiculed for re-using the same animation from the previous game. You are told to put third-person modes in first-person game designs because the 10000 Rockstar employees did it and "first person sucks". How do you take risks when the audience wants Uncharted (which ended beautifully) to come back or something?
This became a rant but I find the indies are the future people and journalists tiring. A healthy gaming environment is one where we see a top 10 chart without GTA 5, FORTNITE, Minecraft and instead see new games Single and Multiplayer doing well.
I agreed with him 🤝
@RoomWithaMoose You mean just like Sony developed / published / funded AA games such as Astro Bot, Lost Soul Aside, Helldivers 2, Lego Horizon, F.I.S.T, Anno: Muttationem, Sifu, Kena: Bridge of Spirits, or Sword of the Sea?
Heck, the whole China/India/MENA Hero Projects are AA games which i bet most people in this site didn't buy / not interested.
@ButterySmooth30FPS Yup it's a fact that people always ask for Sony AA games but a lot of them didn't buy the games.
@ButterySmooth30FPS Cool. Thanks for pointing that out.
@PuppetMaster I'm glad you considered HD2 the AA game it is. Which kinda kills this whole "people don't buy AA" narrative, don't ya think? Half of those games really don't count as Sony embracing AA, just them supporting small developers. Which is nice, but not what I'm talking about. I want Sony and their affiliate teams to develop AA. Astro Bot is a fantastic example of the kinds of games we could be getting from them; don't you want more stuff like Astro Bot?
And, for what it's worth, I bought Astro, LEGO Horizon, and Sword of the Sea at launch. I own Sifu, and plan on buying Kena and Helldivers 2 at some point. I'm also interested in their Hero Project initiative, but none of the actual games have looked particularly interesting to me — not because of AA-ness, they just seem boring. If we're counting Stellar Blade as a AA Hero, then I can confirm my intent to buy that one too.
Which is to say, I will buy AA games if they put them out and they're good. Sony getting other gamers to buy them is not my problem.
@Northern_munkey It does sound like a lot, but it would actually only pay a team of 50 people an average of £40k a year for... 5 years, which seems like reasonable dev time for a game these days. And that's before you factor in physical premises, hardware, other overheads, marketing, expenses etc... Money just doesn't go as far these days!
@RoomWithaMoose "I'm glad you considered HD2 the AA game it is. Which kinda kills this whole "people don't buy AA" narrative, don't ya think?"
Are the other Sony AA games sold as much as Helldivers 2? Nope. The game isn't the norm so it didn't kill "people didn't buy AA games" narrative.
You can look at plenty of Sony AA games like Lost Soul Aside, Lego Horizon, Forbidden Siren, Gravity Rush, Tokyo Jungle, White Knight Chronicles, Puppeteer, Medievil remake etc etc which was a flop.
Even Astro Bot with 2024 GotY on it sleeve only sold 1.5 million copies, which is a far cry compare to Helldivers 2 numbers.
"Half of those games really don't count as Sony embracing AA, just them supporting small developers"
That's like saying Nintendo or MS didn't embrace AA games just because they support / funded / published small devs works. No matter how you spin it, those games are a solid proof of Sony embracing AA games. It pretty much killed your "Sony didn't embrace AA games" narrative.
"don't you want more stuff like Astro Bot?"
I want to see Sony devs makes whatever games they want and do whatever they do best, AA or AAA.
@TheArt Eurogamer stopped being a credible website long ago when it chose ideology over journalism.
@PuppetMaster i thought Ember Lab published kenya? and Kepler Interactive / Microïds publishing Sifu?
@Toot1st Sony didn't published Kena but according to Ember Lab devs, Sony greatly helped with the fund, development assistance, and marketing plus they also got early PS5 devs kit.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-10-22/sony-s-hit-video-game-for-the-playstation5-almost-never-happened-in-covid
It's the same for Sifu but i can't find the devs interview.
@RoomWithaMoose “I want the corporation to cater to me exclusively!!”
Good luck 🤣
@ButterySmooth30FPS It's not like my desire for Sony to develop cheaper, more original games at a higher release cadence than their current strategy allows is some insane, impossible ask. Nor am I alone in asking for it.
This is like a Nintendo fan being shot down by a Nintendo fanboy for suggesting it would be nice if Nintendo made new IP more often.
@PuppetMaster Jesus, guys, what part of, "Why would I care how their AA efforts from the past went?" do you not understand? Again, this is literally an article about how AA games like Split/Fiction and Expedition 33 might be an inflection point for the industry. AA games can be successful — many are. So why can't Sony put out more successful AA games? Precedent doesn't mean future success is impossible, and HD2 is proof of that. And yes, Astro Bot as well. Which was fantastic and, as far as we know, more than exceeded Sony's expectations given its budget. Notice how Sony didn't go out of business for putting out a relatively cheap game that just sold decently.
I don't count Cadence of Hyrule as Nintendo's AA output. I explicitly told you what I meant by 'embrace AA,' so you trying to redefine that phrase is irrelevant. I also wouldn't count your indie examples as AA in the first place, but that's likewise irrelevant to what I'm saying. I want Sony's internal teams to make riskier games with 1-2 year development cycles. Lost Soul Aside is decidedly NOT that.
If every single developer at Sucker Punch, for instance, really was singularly focused on developing Ghosts of Tsushima and Yotei, then good for them. More than likely, there are more ideas being passed around in the studio that either don't get approved by SP higher ups or get vetoed by Sony. I'm just saying, maybe approve some of those ideas every once and a while. Get a fraction of the team together, give them a modest budget, and see what they can do. I think that would be really cool, and would easily remedy some of my pet peeves with Sony's contemporary output. Is there really anything wrong with that?
@RoomWithaMoose Not at all! I’m just saying it’s very unlikely because they already tried it and those games pretty much all flopped. A common fate for smaller games that people demand but never play.
@ButterySmooth30FPS Shrugs
I don't think they have to fail. That's more an issue with Sony's marketing and/or budgeting than anything. And, more importantly, I just think it would be nice if they made more original games that aren't drowning in AAA polish, made-by-committee design, and risk-adverse decision making.
I'm not talking about how likely it might be. Nor am I really saying it would be a good business decision (even though I think it would be, but it's certainly not necessary for business). I'm just saying it's a thing I want, that I know plenty of other people want, that should be modestly profitable and yield more quality games at worst.
@RoomWithaMoose "Why would I care how their AA efforts from the past went?" do you not understand?"
You here can say you don't care because you're not the one who lost millions of money. But Sony care, they're the one who make these games and lost their money if these games doesn't sell. This isn't charity or high school project you know? 🤷♂️
"AA games can be successful — many are"
And many many more has failed, including the good ones that produced by Sony 🤷♂️
"So why can't Sony put out more successful AA games?"
Last time i check, there's no recipe that can guaranteed 9 from 10 AA games can be successful. Heck, there's no recipe that can guaranteed a game can sold well even after they check all the list.
If you have the ultimate recipe to do better than Sony then why not just do it yourself? Go make 10 AA games and see how many of them can sold the same as Helldivers 2. I will salute you if you can produce 9 from 10 games that made Helldivers 2 numbers! 🫡
"Notice how Sony didn't go out of business for putting out a relatively cheap game that just sold decently"
Oh, so you're just gonna ignore Sony AA studios like Japan Studio, Pixel Opus, BigBig Studio, and London Studio who got closed down because their AA games was a flop?
You also gonna ignore one of the biggest reason why Sony not yet bankrupt is because most of their AAA games sold really well and contribute to massive revenue that important for Sony to stay afloat and compensate the lost?
Sure Astro Bot or Helldivers 2 sold well but their revenue alone are not enough to keep Sony afloat.
But i guess you want Sony to make less AAA games and just keep pumping out more AA game after AA game that most people doesn't buy until they goes bankrupt. Wow, what a great idea you got there 😂
@PuppetMaster "Why not just do it yourself? Go make 10 AA games and see how many of them can sold the same as Helldivers 2."
Wow. Fantastic comeback. Literally ridiculing me for wanting more games I might consider interesting from a game developer. You sure have your priorities straight.
"Last time i check, there's no recipe that can guaranteed 9 from 10 AA games can be successful. Heck, there's no recipe that can guaranteed a game can sold well even after they check all the list."
Exactly. There's no guarantee that any game will be successful. Not every Sony AAA is a guaranteed success, and not every Sony AA should be expected to be an uber-success. So, ya know, why not make both?
He is absolutely right. Look at frightening example of Sony's PS5 launch portfolio. They sacrificed almost whole generation on live services that eaten billions of dollars for nothing except disregarded Helldivers2. And now it's rushing to make at least something worthy to play, but it takes years.
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