@Northern_munkey @ilyn The demo has 2 modes - 30fps (who would use this on this type of game?) , and 60fps. Only other options are brightness, and motion blur toggle.
The 1st demo was horrible in terms of framerate, but I found the 2nd demo to be a vast improvement. There are minor dips playing on Pro, but they are limited enough, and usually just for big effects or the occasional loading dip.
There was nothing that troubled me, and you probably know how strict I am on things like this, hence why after reading the review I asked Liam the question if things get worse later on, but got no reply.
There are a few fps comparisons on Youtube, which are from later on in the game, and show only the types of dips I saw in the demo. I should note that the base PS5 can drop much harder and did drop out of VRR range on the odd occasion, so If I didn't have a Pro I would likely have found it too much. No idea how representative the areas the person was testing were.
There do seem to be big issues on PC, with Framerates, and maybe pacing, being problematic even on powerful PC's so I would steer clear here.
The game is not a looker, like Nioh 2, and does have the usual problems around pop in. There is also a really odd thing, where on occasion the whole screen seems to do some form image update. It sort of looks like a screen wide LOD update (maybe lighting), but its weird. The game really should be running much higher than 90fps looking like it does, but thats common with this developer. They did patch the demo yesterday but I didn't play it after.
@ilyn what you are probably seeing is that the Nioh engine, like others, can reduce the framerate of more distant moving objects like enemies. It used to do this a lot on Nioh 2. It can only do this in whole divisibles ie 30/20 etc as it renders it only every 2/3 etc frames, but I have no idea how low it can go.
@JalapenoSpiceLife Yes, its not a good practice - same as releasing a game in a bad state, then fixing it later - it punishes those that bought at launch at full price, and favours those who pick up on sale. And in the same breath you will hear how devs/publishers need games to be pre ordered or bought at launch.
@Oram77 Yeah, it was in a patch a couple of months ago. I took a quick look at the time, and just by eye (I don't have an fps count on my TV), the Pro RT mode seems to run around 80fps now, which in my opinion is a really nice boost. Some areas were definitely higher and nearer 90fps, others a bit lower and in the 70's.
It really is up there as one of the very best showpieces for Pro now (not that it wasn't before, but 80fps really makes a difference for me).
Will definitely replay later this year - but there seems to be a lot of games I have my eye on, including RE9 later this month Pre ordered.
I wasn't really impressed with GoT - it was a while ago so I can't remember all the specifics, but it just didn't 'click' with me. On the other hand I thought GoY was amazing, and easily my GOTY last year.
It helps that GoY is an incredibly good looking game (no idea if you own a Pro but it's a real showpiece for that), whereas I did not think the same of GoT. But, everything in this game seems to drive the story, characters, and world, as opposed to being busywork.
@Oram77 - Now I just have to find time for full NG+ run, now that they have uncapped to 120hz!
I just don't know how to feel about this game.
I wonder if it wasn't Bethesda if it wouldn't have been almost forgotten about by now. Plus, weren't they doing a big 2.0 update for it?
Will see how it reviews on PS5, and how good the Pro version is (it will have to be quite special, and Xbox studios don't have a good track record for PS5/Pro versions).
@KundaliniRising333 I haven't seen any issues like that on the 2nd demo - it all seems pretty good from a purely performance point of view. Its not perfect, and there are dips, but they are limited and the game runs quite smooth most of the time. Thats why I was questioning if things get worse later.
I'm not saying its well optimised at all - it visually looks very rough for only 60fps, and we have seen a number of far better looking games, that are more complex, and running at 80-90 fps on Pro.
Maybe this frame pacing issue is new, or only seriously affects PC (it certainly wouldn't be the first time games have, for whatever reason, run worse on even really powerful PC's over the last few years). Or, maybe it only comes into play in later areas than the demo shows?
@LiamCroft Really disappointed to hear you mention fps drops. The 1st demo was horrible in this regard, but the 2nd demo seemed to clean up all the main issues with performance - does it get worse further on?
Not getting excited over this one at all, yet. I really hope I'm wrong, but I just fear that it's performance (particularly on base PS5) will not be even close to acceptable.
I will wait for reviews of the Pro version before I think about buying.
@ShogunRok I just don't know what they are trying to achieve here - being realistic, and considering the differences to the Cyberpunk situation (which as far as I can remember, is the only real / successful redemption story in many years).
With the best of meaning, I hope someone independent sits them down and explains all this to them.
@carlos82 Sadly, I think they risk further damaging the studio and their individual careers continuing on this one. As per my last post, I think they should try something a bit more 'modest' with quality in mind.
@ShogunRok It certainly would be interesting to know, if only for curiosity, how many people BaRB still have working on this vs how many worked on Cyberpunk (ie fixing / patching).
They should move on and try something more 'modest', because continuing to work on Mindseye may just finish them off as a studio (and quite possibly further damage their careers individually too).
From all I've seen and heard, there is just too much to put right on this one to get it into any sort of reasonable state.
I'm sure they want comparisons with Cyberpunk, but whilst that launched in an appalling technical state, there was a good game there underneath all that; and they likely had far more resources to throw at it.
Build a Rocket Boy sound determined, I'll give them that, but it sounds self destructive to me.
I would leave the PS6 controller exactly the same as the PS5 controller in terms of layout and functionality. As others have said, too few use the features now, and adding / changing things would be a big mistake imo.
@OldGamer999 I would argue Nioh 3 is probably aimed at different players to a degree, as its a Soulslike - which as a genre I really enjoy. But, I also agree, as a game it is not on the same level as GoY.
I'm still very much on the fence about Nioh 3 (even though I played and enjoyed Nioh 2). They seem to have added layers of unneeded complexity to a game they should have carefully refined; and I'm sorry, but whilst they have done a great job cleaning up framerate issues, it still looks really rough - it looks a full gen behind GoY (and 3rd party games like Hogwarts) played on a Pro.
Currently playing the Nioh 3 Demo to try and decide if I want to buy the full game - I'm still undecided, but giving it a chance. If not then I will probably replay some RE Remakes in readiness for Requiem.
@get2sammyb Its more or less dead already, I don't think 'sticking the knife in' will make much difference lol.
On a serious note. With a stagnant, and if not now then in the future shrinking userbase of regular games purchasers (ie not including those that use it as a purely GP machine), and with next gen Xbox reportedly using PC code, I wonder how long it is before 3rd parties actually stop supporting the series consoles. Particularly with games that expect to sell over a long period of time.
@Oram77
I agree, and disagree.
If PS5/Pro is the main development platform, the game will run better / look better on PS5/Pro, as it is a fairly custom built piece of hardware.
In fact, in certain ways, I suspect a large proportion of PC players would prefer the game built for consoles as when devs build for PC they can tend to (get 'excited' and) develop for very high power PCs which only a small proportion own.
Next gen, with what Sony are doing with AMD, who knows lol.
@SuperSilverback Did you get all 3 stages? By the time I fought him, I had been on quite the roll. Beating most of the bosses (including side mission) in the last 3rd of the game, 1st or 2nd go - except the dragon who gave me a bit of a challenge. There I was thinking I had really 'clicked' with the combat, only for the last boss to thoroughly crush me, a good few times.
Played through a good chunk of the demo, though no where near completed yet.
Performance has been improved A LOT, and has been nearly locked to 60fps.
On the visual side it still looks really rough, and dated, with lots of pop in and distant objects look blurry.
With graphics like this, the game should be running at approx 100fps in uncapped VRR mode.
The demo consists of a lot of the same areas as the previous one, but with some changes (not a complaint).
Most of my complaints gameplay wise remain from the previous demo, and centre around the fact that mechanics and moves etc are layered and layered on top of one another in an unsatisfying way. Nioh 2 was complex like this, but this goes far too far in this regard. They should have refined and improved what was there in Nioh 2, not layered on top of it.
As I said before, I played more than 200hrs on Nioh 2 - NG and NG+ including all DLC, and I am far from sold on 3.
Are these people so intent, and frankly desperate for views and clicks, that they resort to this sort of behaviour... its sad, illegal in certain cases, and dangerous in others.
@Slayer25c The previous demo ran horribly and looked very substandard to me. I played Nioh 2 on a PS5, and 3's demo on a Pro, and it still looked worse to me. I understand it was an early build - but it was only June of last year, which did not give them much time to overhaul to the degree it needed.
Starting your replies with "duh" does not put people in the right frame of mind of thinking they can have an intelligent conversation/debate with you.
@JB_Whiting That's what I'm hoping for. I get that the previous demo was meant to have been an earlish build, but it was still fairly late in the development cycle, and needed some serious work.
Nioh 2 was never a great 'looker' but it performed very nicely, which was enough for me in this regard - though I will add I played Nioh 2 on base PS5, and have a Pro now.
I might give this a brief try, but I was very disappointed with the last demo because it had massive performance issues, which is bad enough normally, but far worse for a Soulslike. It didn't even look better than Nioh 2, which I sunk more than 200hrs into, just performed much worse.
@themightyant @Ainu20 I'm sorry, I get what you are saying but I still think this is the only way forwards for Sony. Devs / publishers need reigning in to some form of standard, and it would be an excellent Pro-consumer move in my opinion (no pun intended).
PS6 is going to seem a bit of a joke if DF etc start finding sub 60fps in 3rd party games, and that will hurt uptake (or continued uptake if we start to see it a year or two in) - people may stick with PS5's longer, or start to look elsewhere.
In the meantime I will just continue my stance of not buying without a suitable review/analysis, without good reason eg demo, Sony 1st party.
It doesn't cause issues in Sony titles. Good PSSR use: 1st Party: GoY, Demon Souls, SM2, SMMM, GOWR, TLOU2 etc 3rd Party: KCD2, RE Village, RE4R, Stellar Blade, FF7Rebirth, Hogwarts etc Thats more fingers than most hands have.
I think there is a point here, but in the reverse of what he says ie that sometimes review scores just aren't harsh enough for serious issues.
It's also somewhat hard to believe all reviews are non-biased when just yesterday I checked on the metacritic score for Code Vein 2 and saw a 10/10 critic review listed...
@themightyant That's why it is very important that the standard is correctly set, and why I gave the food example because it generally works on averages and permitted deviations.
The target obviously is 60fps, but the average could be 58fps (for example), allowing for small infrequent drops, and very occasional larger drops (eg the unexpectedly large explosion). This could further be expanded by stating that 60fps should be achieved say 90% of the time (again an example).
A lot of games lock quite nicely to 60fps with minimal drops already, without overly downgrading visuals or gameplay etc. They could look at their own software, which is generally very good in this regard, when coming up with these standards. I don't see this as curtailing good dev teams, just reigning in poor ones / publishers who think they can release sub par or broken games.
What is the point of PS6 going to be if games are still going to have performance issues? Do we really want to see this gen out with an even larger number of games that have been released in a bad state? What message does that send when Sony are trying to get people to upgrade from PS4 to PS5 or Pro, or in the future to PS6.
One of the other methods to help matters is more graphics options in line with what we see on PC - still have your performance / quality profiles, but have further advanced options behind those that you can tweak. The game that broke me from ever pre-ordering 3rd party games again without a demo was SWJS - the performance was trash, and took 6 months to fix. The solution was to disable RT which was barely visible. PC versions already had a toggle, so it wasn't that difficult to implement. I have recently broke my rule and pre-ordered REReq after reading their Pro details.
@Ainu20 @themightyant
Its the only way the industry can pull away from the wave of unoptimised / rushed / etc games we see - this is fast becoming the 'launch broken, maybe fix later" generation.
If the games sell themselves as having "performance modes" or as 60fps, it is not unreasonable to expect a high level of compliance to 60fps.
Standards like this exist in multiple industries. If you buy a TV that says 4k on the box / advertising you expect it to be capable of that. If you buy a food product which states a certain amount of an ingredient in or a certain number of units, you expect to get that. If you buy a movie that states HD you expect to get that quality.*
(NB I'm not saying that games can't have 30fps modes, that would just be silly.)
Sony are in a fairly unique position here and could champion this. If the game doesn't meet the standard, people who have bought it can ask for their money back, which Sony can charge back to the publisher. Its no different to how other industries work.
Edit: I will add that actually stating the info the customer should expect in the paragraph marked with a star, is mostly (if not always) a legal requirement, and certainly an industry standard.
@get2sammyb Sammy, you have a quotation error in this article - in your quote box it states (at the end) "upgrade your PS5 console", on the source it states "upgrade to a PS5 console".
@Theamazing1
While I don't agree with some of what @LifeGirl has said, they are quite correct in stating that a lot of games struggle to consistently hit 60fps.
Most games, with very very few exceptions, have 60fps modes, but a significant % do not lock anywhere near close enough.
Sony really ****ed up here, and as the leading console brand should have mandated a technical standard for 60fps, ideally from the start of the gen, including minimum avrg fps, and time at 60fps.
I agree with this in principle, but this is only going to get MUCH worse next gen.
As others have discussed, 60fps over 30fps is a standard expected difference between PS5 and PS4.
What is going to be a standard expected difference between PS6 and PS5?
It looks better???
Is PS6 powerful enough to run all games at 120fps, and can Sony mandate this and a tech standard games have to achieve (They can, and should have done this for 60fps this gen, but didn't).
Also, we are definitely looking at a more complete, longer cross gen period next gen - my opinion is we will see very few games run on PS6 that can't on PS5.
Lastly, if Sony wanted to push people to upgrade, they really needed to get this message out whilst the PS5 was on really good sale last year!
@themightyant Very true. And I'm not debating that a sub par remake / game should be cancelled.
I am just thinking that there are times where decisions like this are going to be questioned more than others (I mean if you have a game with mostly negative opinions on a trailer, or very little is known about a new IP, few are going to question its cancellation).
This is one of those occasions though where questions are being asked, and were always likely to be.
I understand that the industry standard is to say very little - and as I have just read @ilyn writes that too much info can be a bad thing too. I have also re-read what Ubisoft said, and it reads like a very standard corporate line. But, just because something is the norm, doesn't make it the best course of action for every situation; and maybe, just maybe, they could have come out of this one sounding much better than they do now, if they had of handled it a bit differently. I'm also sure we will get to hear more of how they were hoping to turn it into some sort of Live service golden goose before long.
I have very little interest in Ubisoft these days, or any of their games (maybe Rayman). In fact, given their recent track record and recent statements, I wonder if much will be left of them in a few years time.
@themightyant I'm not saying it wasn't bad, it was probably in a crap state, that might have dented their credibility further if they had released it. Just that with their track record, and the timing with restructuring, and the narrative (whether true or not) that this was ready for launch, and the fact that it was a remake of a well liked game etc - that the info they have given is clearly not enough, or we wouldn't be seeing so much info/articles like this.
@MrPeanutbutterz Having seen Reviews, particularly technical, for Redfall, I agree. That's sort of my point though - we just don't have a gauge on where this game was, and headlines / articles etc like this, along with the whole 'nearly ready for launch', make it sound like it was a bad decision, even if it wasn't.
@Oram77 Interesting. I'm just really glad Capcom are seemingly all in on their own engine. I AM NOT a fan of UE5 lol. A number of these proprietary engines are far superior imo, with Decima right at the top. But as we have discussed, RE Engine when used well, and particularly on Pro, is really good. To be fair though, UE4 can still give excellent results when used properly.
@MrPeanutbutterz It probably was - but it hurts their credibility in decision making every time people read articles like this, questioning why they cancelled this game.
UE4 is a far better engine than UE5 for this current gen of consoles (maybe PS6 gen too) - UE5 is just too resource hungry to be taken seriously in my opinion, and I genuinely think UE4 games look better, as well as performing much better.
Considering PS6 handheld specs, and possible Switch 2 ports, there would be no way whatsoever that if I were a dev I would even consider using UE5 unless it received a major overhaul.
Saying all this I do know that some devs are partly to blame when it comes to adding 'additional features' of the engine.
@JB_Whiting I use a Sony 4k 120hz TV and don't see any real difference in colours / blacks when switching between 60hz and 120hz modes. The only thing I can see is if the image is naturally washed out, there can be an incredibly mild almost banding type effect in 120hz mode. Not doing the 'my TV is better' thing - just giving context that I doubt it is the console output.
@Oram77 I can't say I have heard anything about a REX engine - I thought Capcom were happy with what they have, but if timed with PS6 gen i'm curious too.
Don't get me wrong - I'm very excited for this one now, and thought the Pro enhancements of their RE games were really excellent. I saw a few things in one of the trailers for this, which I will not describe as I know you don't want spoilers, that really made me sit up and take notice. And, whilst I have various complaints about the recent RE games (B scenarios in 2, cut content in 3, last 3rd of 7, etc) this does not mean I think these games are not incredible games (well, maybe 7). In fact my complaints surrounding 2R B scenarios are only because this was such an amazing game, which I still replay frequently, but I can clearly see how it could have been even better.
Me pre-ordering a non-Sony game early, just does not happen anymore, unless I have a demo to see the technical state of it. I would also add I think I am still a bit nervous of Capcom after the technical quality of MHW using RE Engine, but in fairness I don't think RE engine fits open world games. I will add that DF said in one of their videos a short while back that they had seen a number of Capcom's upcoming games running - on Pro I think. The only game they didn't think was on track was the new Onimusha game, so fingers crossed on this, but Capcom do seem to be in a really good place right now.
Why can't Ubisoft just do the sensible thing here and explain this one? The fact that the project was apparently so near completion suggests that there were issues that they weren't prepared to spend more money fixing - but if this is the case, it begs the question - why? I would be tempted to show the current build to a few review outlets, with an explanation, before 'sweeping it under the rug' of a company reset.
@Oram77 My thoughts exactly. The trouble is that companies generally use a 'hard reset' to try and boost faith in them after a troubling, low confidence era. But, in an age where info like this is going to surface, it just makes them look more incompetent and uncaring.
@Oram77
(No spoilers, I promise)
RE4R had several drops on base PS5 - not bad, but not ideal. The village centre at night was starting to test my tolerance.
Then they added the Pro enhancements, and to this day I think it remains one of the best uses of Pro to date. RE4R went from 50-60fps to 80-100fps, with very slightly increased visual stability.
NB I haven't mentioned Village because I haven't tested it out myself, but I know that is similarly excellent.
I will admit to having been a bit hesitant with Requiem - hoping that they had used a similar profile as RE4R, and it would appear from the details in the article that they have done just that.
At the very least, a 90fps average mode is just my cup of tea (as the phrase goes), and given how excellent their Pro enhancements of 4R and Village are, I have been confident enough to pre-order.
@Atreus97
I don't know exactly what they are doing here, but with RE4R what they did (IIRC) was to use PSSR to drop the pre upscale resolution somewhat without reducing the actual image quality - I actually slightly prefer the PSSR version as the image in motion is better, but its close. They used the power saved, and the additional horsepower the Pro has to increase the framerate by a very significant amount.
My amateur guess (from all the things I have read) would be that PSSR2 will have a similar frame time cost (ie it takes a little time each frame to use it so you need a little additional power to compensate), so the framerate will be approx the same (*as the currently enhanced version), but with a hopefully significantly better image quality and stability - in which case games that use the Pro in this way will benefit very nicely.
Or they could use a better PSSR to reduce the pre upscale pixel count even further, keeping the image quality the same, but increasing framerate even further, but 90fps on consoles does seem about the sweet spot.
Comments 3,101
Re: Nioh 3 (PS5) - Superb Action Fronts a New Team Ninja Gem
@Northern_munkey @ilyn
The demo has 2 modes - 30fps (who would use this on this type of game?) , and 60fps. Only other options are brightness, and motion blur toggle.
The 1st demo was horrible in terms of framerate, but I found the 2nd demo to be a vast improvement. There are minor dips playing on Pro, but they are limited enough, and usually just for big effects or the occasional loading dip.
There was nothing that troubled me, and you probably know how strict I am on things like this, hence why after reading the review I asked Liam the question if things get worse later on, but got no reply.
There are a few fps comparisons on Youtube, which are from later on in the game, and show only the types of dips I saw in the demo.
I should note that the base PS5 can drop much harder and did drop out of VRR range on the odd occasion, so If I didn't have a Pro I would likely have found it too much.
No idea how representative the areas the person was testing were.
There do seem to be big issues on PC, with Framerates, and maybe pacing, being problematic even on powerful PC's so I would steer clear here.
The game is not a looker, like Nioh 2, and does have the usual problems around pop in. There is also a really odd thing, where on occasion the whole screen seems to do some form image update. It sort of looks like a screen wide LOD update (maybe lighting), but its weird.
The game really should be running much higher than 90fps looking like it does, but thats common with this developer.
They did patch the demo yesterday but I didn't play it after.
@ilyn what you are probably seeing is that the Nioh engine, like others, can reduce the framerate of more distant moving objects like enemies. It used to do this a lot on Nioh 2. It can only do this in whole divisibles ie 30/20 etc as it renders it only every 2/3 etc frames, but I have no idea how low it can go.
Re: Digimon Story Time Stranger Confirms 60FPS Performance Mode Coming to PS5
@JalapenoSpiceLife
Yes, its not a good practice - same as releasing a game in a bad state, then fixing it later - it punishes those that bought at launch at full price, and favours those who pick up on sale. And in the same breath you will hear how devs/publishers need games to be pre ordered or bought at launch.
Re: Digimon Story Time Stranger Confirms 60FPS Performance Mode Coming to PS5
No game should launch without 60fps.
Re: Launch-Aligned, Ghost of Yotei PS5 Is Selling Better Than Tsushima
@Oram77
Yeah, it was in a patch a couple of months ago.
I took a quick look at the time, and just by eye (I don't have an fps count on my TV), the Pro RT mode seems to run around 80fps now, which in my opinion is a really nice boost.
Some areas were definitely higher and nearer 90fps, others a bit lower and in the 70's.
It really is up there as one of the very best showpieces for Pro now (not that it wasn't before, but 80fps really makes a difference for me).
Will definitely replay later this year - but there seems to be a lot of games I have my eye on, including RE9 later this month Pre ordered.
Re: Launch-Aligned, Ghost of Yotei PS5 Is Selling Better Than Tsushima
@Scottyy
Just to echo @Oram77 's message.
I wasn't really impressed with GoT - it was a while ago so I can't remember all the specifics, but it just didn't 'click' with me.
On the other hand I thought GoY was amazing, and easily my GOTY last year.
It helps that GoY is an incredibly good looking game (no idea if you own a Pro but it's a real showpiece for that), whereas I did not think the same of GoT.
But, everything in this game seems to drive the story, characters, and world, as opposed to being busywork.
@Oram77 - Now I just have to find time for full NG+ run, now that they have uncapped to 120hz!
Re: Want a Head Start on Forza Horizon 6 PS5? Cross-Save Lets You Begin on PC and Xbox
At this point if I were into racing games my FOMO would have gone, and I might even just wait for a sale on PS5.
Re: Pure Pool Pro Brings the Glossiest Balls You've Ever Seen to PS5 Next Week
Dropped frames a plenty here then lol
Re: Rumour: Starfield PS5 Release Date Is Set for 7th April
I just don't know how to feel about this game.
I wonder if it wasn't Bethesda if it wouldn't have been almost forgotten about by now. Plus, weren't they doing a big 2.0 update for it?
Will see how it reviews on PS5, and how good the Pro version is (it will have to be quite special, and Xbox studios don't have a good track record for PS5/Pro versions).
Re: Nioh 3 (PS5) - Superb Action Fronts a New Team Ninja Gem
@KundaliniRising333
I haven't seen any issues like that on the 2nd demo - it all seems pretty good from a purely performance point of view. Its not perfect, and there are dips, but they are limited and the game runs quite smooth most of the time.
Thats why I was questioning if things get worse later.
I'm not saying its well optimised at all - it visually looks very rough for only 60fps, and we have seen a number of far better looking games, that are more complex, and running at 80-90 fps on Pro.
Maybe this frame pacing issue is new, or only seriously affects PC (it certainly wouldn't be the first time games have, for whatever reason, run worse on even really powerful PC's over the last few years). Or, maybe it only comes into play in later areas than the demo shows?
Re: Nioh 3 (PS5) - Superb Action Fronts a New Team Ninja Gem
@LiamCroft
Really disappointed to hear you mention fps drops.
The 1st demo was horrible in this regard, but the 2nd demo seemed to clean up all the main issues with performance - does it get worse further on?
Re: Xbox's Obsidian Seemingly Kills The Outer Worlds, Third Game Not Planned
Hopefully they are learning how to make their PS5 versions (by far their biggest console market) NOT be performance nightmares.
I might have picked up OW2 until I saw the DF review.
Re: Today in Weird Sony Patents: AI-Generated Podcasts Hosted by PlayStation Characters
Not interested in this at all - I want to listen to actual human beings, not AI.
However, I seriously wonder if Sony have requested the patent ONLY to prevent others from doing it, ie protecting their interests.
Re: The Division: Definitive Edition Out Now, But Not on PS5
Not really definitive is it then?
More like Legacy these days.
Re: You'll Want to Play Crimson Desert on PS5 Pro for Dedicated Enhancements
Not getting excited over this one at all, yet.
I really hope I'm wrong, but I just fear that it's performance (particularly on base PS5) will not be even close to acceptable.
I will wait for reviews of the Pro version before I think about buying.
Re: Rumour: MindsEye Dev Splits From Hitman Publisher, Seeks to Fix 2025's Biggest Flop
@ShogunRok
I just don't know what they are trying to achieve here - being realistic, and considering the differences to the Cyberpunk situation (which as far as I can remember, is the only real / successful redemption story in many years).
With the best of meaning, I hope someone independent sits them down and explains all this to them.
Re: Rumour: MindsEye Dev Splits From Hitman Publisher, Seeks to Fix 2025's Biggest Flop
@carlos82
Sadly, I think they risk further damaging the studio and their individual careers continuing on this one. As per my last post, I think they should try something a bit more 'modest' with quality in mind.
Re: Rumour: MindsEye Dev Splits From Hitman Publisher, Seeks to Fix 2025's Biggest Flop
@ShogunRok
It certainly would be interesting to know, if only for curiosity, how many people BaRB still have working on this vs how many worked on Cyberpunk (ie fixing / patching).
They should move on and try something more 'modest', because continuing to work on Mindseye may just finish them off as a studio (and quite possibly further damage their careers individually too).
Re: Rumour: MindsEye Dev Splits From Hitman Publisher, Seeks to Fix 2025's Biggest Flop
From all I've seen and heard, there is just too much to put right on this one to get it into any sort of reasonable state.
I'm sure they want comparisons with Cyberpunk, but whilst that launched in an appalling technical state, there was a good game there underneath all that; and they likely had far more resources to throw at it.
Build a Rocket Boy sound determined, I'll give them that, but it sounds self destructive to me.
Re: New PlayStation Patent Could Let You Put Controller Buttons Where You Want
I would leave the PS6 controller exactly the same as the PS5 controller in terms of layout and functionality.
As others have said, too few use the features now, and adding / changing things would be a big mistake imo.
Re: God of War TV Casting Continues with Mimir, Brok, and Sindri Actors
Mimir being the same voice actor as 2018/Ragnarok has just put it a little bit a-HEAD of my previous expectations lol.
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 618
@OldGamer999
I would argue Nioh 3 is probably aimed at different players to a degree, as its a Soulslike - which as a genre I really enjoy. But, I also agree, as a game it is not on the same level as GoY.
I'm still very much on the fence about Nioh 3 (even though I played and enjoyed Nioh 2).
They seem to have added layers of unneeded complexity to a game they should have carefully refined; and I'm sorry, but whilst they have done a great job cleaning up framerate issues, it still looks really rough - it looks a full gen behind GoY (and 3rd party games like Hogwarts) played on a Pro.
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 618
Currently playing the Nioh 3 Demo to try and decide if I want to buy the full game - I'm still undecided, but giving it a chance.
If not then I will probably replay some RE Remakes in readiness for Requiem.
Re: GDC Survey Reveals Developers Are Twice as Interested in Making Games for PS5 Than Xbox
@get2sammyb
Its more or less dead already, I don't think 'sticking the knife in' will make much difference lol.
On a serious note. With a stagnant, and if not now then in the future shrinking userbase of regular games purchasers (ie not including those that use it as a purely GP machine), and with next gen Xbox reportedly using PC code, I wonder how long it is before 3rd parties actually stop supporting the series consoles. Particularly with games that expect to sell over a long period of time.
Re: GDC Survey Reveals Developers Are Twice as Interested in Making Games for PS5 Than Xbox
@Oram77
I agree, and disagree.
If PS5/Pro is the main development platform, the game will run better / look better on PS5/Pro, as it is a fairly custom built piece of hardware.
In fact, in certain ways, I suspect a large proportion of PC players would prefer the game built for consoles as when devs build for PC they can tend to (get 'excited' and) develop for very high power PCs which only a small proportion own.
Next gen, with what Sony are doing with AMD, who knows lol.
Re: Promising Chinese God of War Game Will Be 'Optimised for PS5 in Collaboration with Sony'
@SuperSilverback
A real underrated gem of last year, but that last fight was... a lot.
@Northern_munkey
Hope u get it finished soon. Digital copies have the advantage of being far more mad puppy proof! Lol
Re: Promising Chinese God of War Game Will Be 'Optimised for PS5 in Collaboration with Sony'
@SuperSilverback
Did you get all 3 stages?
By the time I fought him, I had been on quite the roll. Beating most of the bosses (including side mission) in the last 3rd of the game, 1st or 2nd go - except the dragon who gave me a bit of a challenge.
There I was thinking I had really 'clicked' with the combat, only for the last boss to thoroughly crush me, a good few times.
Re: Play Nioh 3 Now in Free PS5 Demo
Played through a good chunk of the demo, though no where near completed yet.
Re: GTA 6 Fans Reportedly Attempted Using Drones, Fake IDs to Get a Glimpse at Rockstar's Game
Are these people so intent, and frankly desperate for views and clicks, that they resort to this sort of behaviour... its sad, illegal in certain cases, and dangerous in others.
Re: Play Nioh 3 Now in Free PS5 Demo
@Slayer25c
The previous demo ran horribly and looked very substandard to me. I played Nioh 2 on a PS5, and 3's demo on a Pro, and it still looked worse to me.
I understand it was an early build - but it was only June of last year, which did not give them much time to overhaul to the degree it needed.
Starting your replies with "duh" does not put people in the right frame of mind of thinking they can have an intelligent conversation/debate with you.
Re: Play Nioh 3 Now in Free PS5 Demo
@JB_Whiting
That's what I'm hoping for. I get that the previous demo was meant to have been an earlish build, but it was still fairly late in the development cycle, and needed some serious work.
Nioh 2 was never a great 'looker' but it performed very nicely, which was enough for me in this regard - though I will add I played Nioh 2 on base PS5, and have a Pro now.
Re: Play Nioh 3 Now in Free PS5 Demo
I might give this a brief try, but I was very disappointed with the last demo because it had massive performance issues, which is bad enough normally, but far worse for a Soulslike.
It didn't even look better than Nioh 2, which I sunk more than 200hrs into, just performed much worse.
Re: Sony's Sending Messages to PS4 Players Encouraging Them to Upgrade to PS5
@themightyant @Ainu20
I'm sorry, I get what you are saying but I still think this is the only way forwards for Sony.
Devs / publishers need reigning in to some form of standard, and it would be an excellent Pro-consumer move in my opinion (no pun intended).
PS6 is going to seem a bit of a joke if DF etc start finding sub 60fps in 3rd party games, and that will hurt uptake (or continued uptake if we start to see it a year or two in) - people may stick with PS5's longer, or start to look elsewhere.
In the meantime I will just continue my stance of not buying without a suitable review/analysis, without good reason eg demo, Sony 1st party.
Re: Despite Its Price, PS5 Pro Enjoyed a Very Respectable 2025 in USA
It doesn't cause issues in Sony titles.
Good PSSR use:
1st Party: GoY, Demon Souls, SM2, SMMM, GOWR, TLOU2 etc
3rd Party: KCD2, RE Village, RE4R, Stellar Blade, FF7Rebirth, Hogwarts etc
Thats more fingers than most hands have.
Re: Larian CEO Swen Vincke Sticks His Foot in It Again, Thinks Game Reviewers Should Also Be Reviewed
I think there is a point here, but in the reverse of what he says ie that sometimes review scores just aren't harsh enough for serious issues.
It's also somewhat hard to believe all reviews are non-biased when just yesterday I checked on the metacritic score for Code Vein 2 and saw a 10/10 critic review listed...
Re: Sony's Sending Messages to PS4 Players Encouraging Them to Upgrade to PS5
@themightyant
That's why it is very important that the standard is correctly set, and why I gave the food example because it generally works on averages and permitted deviations.
The target obviously is 60fps, but the average could be 58fps (for example), allowing for small infrequent drops, and very occasional larger drops (eg the unexpectedly large explosion).
This could further be expanded by stating that 60fps should be achieved say 90% of the time (again an example).
A lot of games lock quite nicely to 60fps with minimal drops already, without overly downgrading visuals or gameplay etc. They could look at their own software, which is generally very good in this regard, when coming up with these standards.
I don't see this as curtailing good dev teams, just reigning in poor ones / publishers who think they can release sub par or broken games.
What is the point of PS6 going to be if games are still going to have performance issues?
Do we really want to see this gen out with an even larger number of games that have been released in a bad state?
What message does that send when Sony are trying to get people to upgrade from PS4 to PS5 or Pro, or in the future to PS6.
One of the other methods to help matters is more graphics options in line with what we see on PC - still have your performance / quality profiles, but have further advanced options behind those that you can tweak.
The game that broke me from ever pre-ordering 3rd party games again without a demo was SWJS - the performance was trash, and took 6 months to fix. The solution was to disable RT which was barely visible. PC versions already had a toggle, so it wasn't that difficult to implement.
I have recently broke my rule and pre-ordered REReq after reading their Pro details.
Re: Sony's Sending Messages to PS4 Players Encouraging Them to Upgrade to PS5
@Ainu20 @themightyant
Its the only way the industry can pull away from the wave of unoptimised / rushed / etc games we see - this is fast becoming the 'launch broken, maybe fix later" generation.
If the games sell themselves as having "performance modes" or as 60fps, it is not unreasonable to expect a high level of compliance to 60fps.
Standards like this exist in multiple industries. If you buy a TV that says 4k on the box / advertising you expect it to be capable of that. If you buy a food product which states a certain amount of an ingredient in or a certain number of units, you expect to get that. If you buy a movie that states HD you expect to get that quality.*
(NB I'm not saying that games can't have 30fps modes, that would just be silly.)
Sony are in a fairly unique position here and could champion this. If the game doesn't meet the standard, people who have bought it can ask for their money back, which Sony can charge back to the publisher. Its no different to how other industries work.
Edit: I will add that actually stating the info the customer should expect in the paragraph marked with a star, is mostly (if not always) a legal requirement, and certainly an industry standard.
Re: Sony's Sending Messages to PS4 Players Encouraging Them to Upgrade to PS5
@get2sammyb
Sammy, you have a quotation error in this article - in your quote box it states (at the end) "upgrade your PS5 console", on the source it states "upgrade to a PS5 console".
Re: Sony's Sending Messages to PS4 Players Encouraging Them to Upgrade to PS5
@Theamazing1
While I don't agree with some of what @LifeGirl has said, they are quite correct in stating that a lot of games struggle to consistently hit 60fps.
Most games, with very very few exceptions, have 60fps modes, but a significant % do not lock anywhere near close enough.
Sony really ****ed up here, and as the leading console brand should have mandated a technical standard for 60fps, ideally from the start of the gen, including minimum avrg fps, and time at 60fps.
Re: Sony's Sending Messages to PS4 Players Encouraging Them to Upgrade to PS5
I agree with this in principle, but this is only going to get MUCH worse next gen.
As others have discussed, 60fps over 30fps is a standard expected difference between PS5 and PS4.
What is going to be a standard expected difference between PS6 and PS5?
It looks better???
Is PS6 powerful enough to run all games at 120fps, and can Sony mandate this and a tech standard games have to achieve (They can, and should have done this for 60fps this gen, but didn't).
Also, we are definitely looking at a more complete, longer cross gen period next gen - my opinion is we will see very few games run on PS6 that can't on PS5.
Lastly, if Sony wanted to push people to upgrade, they really needed to get this message out whilst the PS5 was on really good sale last year!
Re: Poll: Are You Playing Highguard?
Its doomed! Doomed, I say! Doomed!!
(In a Scottish accent)
Re: 'Everything Had Been Going Smoothly': Prince of Persia PS5 Remake Actress Found Out About Cancellation from Family
@themightyant
Very true. And I'm not debating that a sub par remake / game should be cancelled.
I am just thinking that there are times where decisions like this are going to be questioned more than others (I mean if you have a game with mostly negative opinions on a trailer, or very little is known about a new IP, few are going to question its cancellation).
This is one of those occasions though where questions are being asked, and were always likely to be.
I understand that the industry standard is to say very little - and as I have just read @ilyn writes that too much info can be a bad thing too. I have also re-read what Ubisoft said, and it reads like a very standard corporate line.
But, just because something is the norm, doesn't make it the best course of action for every situation; and maybe, just maybe, they could have come out of this one sounding much better than they do now, if they had of handled it a bit differently.
I'm also sure we will get to hear more of how they were hoping to turn it into some sort of Live service golden goose before long.
I have very little interest in Ubisoft these days, or any of their games (maybe Rayman). In fact, given their recent track record and recent statements, I wonder if much will be left of them in a few years time.
Re: 'Everything Had Been Going Smoothly': Prince of Persia PS5 Remake Actress Found Out About Cancellation from Family
@themightyant
I'm not saying it wasn't bad, it was probably in a crap state, that might have dented their credibility further if they had released it.
Just that with their track record, and the timing with restructuring, and the narrative (whether true or not) that this was ready for launch, and the fact that it was a remake of a well liked game etc - that the info they have given is clearly not enough, or we wouldn't be seeing so much info/articles like this.
Re: 'Everything Had Been Going Smoothly': Prince of Persia PS5 Remake Actress Found Out About Cancellation from Family
@MrPeanutbutterz
Having seen Reviews, particularly technical, for Redfall, I agree. That's sort of my point though - we just don't have a gauge on where this game was, and headlines / articles etc like this, along with the whole 'nearly ready for launch', make it sound like it was a bad decision, even if it wasn't.
Re: Resident Evil Requiem Sounds Like a Proper PS5 Pro Showpiece
@Oram77
Interesting. I'm just really glad Capcom are seemingly all in on their own engine. I AM NOT a fan of UE5 lol.
A number of these proprietary engines are far superior imo, with Decima right at the top. But as we have discussed, RE Engine when used well, and particularly on Pro, is really good.
To be fair though, UE4 can still give excellent results when used properly.
Re: 'Everything Had Been Going Smoothly': Prince of Persia PS5 Remake Actress Found Out About Cancellation from Family
@MrPeanutbutterz
It probably was - but it hurts their credibility in decision making every time people read articles like this, questioning why they cancelled this game.
Re: Final Fantasy 7 Remake Dev Explains Why It's Not Upgrading to Unreal Engine 5 for Third Chapter
UE4 is a far better engine than UE5 for this current gen of consoles (maybe PS6 gen too) - UE5 is just too resource hungry to be taken seriously in my opinion, and I genuinely think UE4 games look better, as well as performing much better.
Considering PS6 handheld specs, and possible Switch 2 ports, there would be no way whatsoever that if I were a dev I would even consider using UE5 unless it received a major overhaul.
Saying all this I do know that some devs are partly to blame when it comes to adding 'additional features' of the engine.
Re: Resident Evil Requiem Sounds Like a Proper PS5 Pro Showpiece
@JB_Whiting
I use a Sony 4k 120hz TV and don't see any real difference in colours / blacks when switching between 60hz and 120hz modes. The only thing I can see is if the image is naturally washed out, there can be an incredibly mild almost banding type effect in 120hz mode.
Not doing the 'my TV is better' thing - just giving context that I doubt it is the console output.
Re: Resident Evil Requiem Sounds Like a Proper PS5 Pro Showpiece
@Oram77
I can't say I have heard anything about a REX engine - I thought Capcom were happy with what they have, but if timed with PS6 gen i'm curious too.
Don't get me wrong - I'm very excited for this one now, and thought the Pro enhancements of their RE games were really excellent. I saw a few things in one of the trailers for this, which I will not describe as I know you don't want spoilers, that really made me sit up and take notice.
And, whilst I have various complaints about the recent RE games (B scenarios in 2, cut content in 3, last 3rd of 7, etc) this does not mean I think these games are not incredible games (well, maybe 7).
In fact my complaints surrounding 2R B scenarios are only because this was such an amazing game, which I still replay frequently, but I can clearly see how it could have been even better.
Me pre-ordering a non-Sony game early, just does not happen anymore, unless I have a demo to see the technical state of it. I would also add I think I am still a bit nervous of Capcom after the technical quality of MHW using RE Engine, but in fairness I don't think RE engine fits open world games.
I will add that DF said in one of their videos a short while back that they had seen a number of Capcom's upcoming games running - on Pro I think. The only game they didn't think was on track was the new Onimusha game, so fingers crossed on this, but Capcom do seem to be in a really good place right now.
Re: 'Everything Had Been Going Smoothly': Prince of Persia PS5 Remake Actress Found Out About Cancellation from Family
Why can't Ubisoft just do the sensible thing here and explain this one?
The fact that the project was apparently so near completion suggests that there were issues that they weren't prepared to spend more money fixing - but if this is the case, it begs the question - why?
I would be tempted to show the current build to a few review outlets, with an explanation, before 'sweeping it under the rug' of a company reset.
@Oram77
My thoughts exactly.
The trouble is that companies generally use a 'hard reset' to try and boost faith in them after a troubling, low confidence era.
But, in an age where info like this is going to surface, it just makes them look more incompetent and uncaring.
Re: Resident Evil Requiem Sounds Like a Proper PS5 Pro Showpiece
@Oram77
(No spoilers, I promise)
RE4R had several drops on base PS5 - not bad, but not ideal. The village centre at night was starting to test my tolerance.
Then they added the Pro enhancements, and to this day I think it remains one of the best uses of Pro to date. RE4R went from 50-60fps to 80-100fps, with very slightly increased visual stability.
NB I haven't mentioned Village because I haven't tested it out myself, but I know that is similarly excellent.
I will admit to having been a bit hesitant with Requiem - hoping that they had used a similar profile as RE4R, and it would appear from the details in the article that they have done just that.
At the very least, a 90fps average mode is just my cup of tea (as the phrase goes), and given how excellent their Pro enhancements of 4R and Village are, I have been confident enough to pre-order.
@Atreus97
I don't know exactly what they are doing here, but with RE4R what they did (IIRC) was to use PSSR to drop the pre upscale resolution somewhat without reducing the actual image quality - I actually slightly prefer the PSSR version as the image in motion is better, but its close. They used the power saved, and the additional horsepower the Pro has to increase the framerate by a very significant amount.
My amateur guess (from all the things I have read) would be that PSSR2 will have a similar frame time cost (ie it takes a little time each frame to use it so you need a little additional power to compensate), so the framerate will be approx the same (*as the currently enhanced version), but with a hopefully significantly better image quality and stability - in which case games that use the Pro in this way will benefit very nicely.
Or they could use a better PSSR to reduce the pre upscale pixel count even further, keeping the image quality the same, but increasing framerate even further, but 90fps on consoles does seem about the sweet spot.
Edit: added ( ) with star in.