@PuppetMaster I do wonder how many people upset with Sony at the moment about this, pre ordered (or are intending to) GTA6.
(I will be 'outraged' if the game doesn't support 60fps - but if it doesn't have a strong 60fps, I will not buy it until it does, even if that is never.)
I also have big questions as to what people think has been announced. Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I can see it only pertains to games published by Sony, nothing more. It does not (again, as far as I can tell), mean that PS6 won't have a disc drive. (I think there is 0% chance of it coming with one and nobody should expect this, but it could still have an optional drive as per PS5 Pro).
@get2sammyb @LogicStrikesAgain
I think a lot of the timing for Sony's announcement of them ceasing Physical versions of their games (and only their games?) is how well GTA6 is selling right now, despite being digital only.
All those rushing to pre-order this game have sent Sony the message that this is OK, and Sony had the announcement 'ready to go'.
(NB I am only talking the digital announcement- the PS3/Vita store is likely a legal notification as Sammy said).
Edit: Xbox on a self destruct course probably helped with the timing too.
@UltimateOtaku91 I actually think it makes a lot of sense.
Stop discs during PS5, wait (nearly) a year, release PS6 - this distances PS6 from the decision to stop discs, any bad feeling will have died down as people have got used to it, and here is the shiny new PS6!
The alternative (launch 2027) means they would be promoting PS6 in the 6 months prior to stopping discs when people are likely talking about this decision (more and more up to the stop date). It also makes it look like PS6 is linked to said decision, and sours the mood at a time Sony want people to be celebrating PS6.
@Yor-sama I do totally agree with you, and have said similar in the past.
I'm actually very surprised Sony haven't created a minimum standard for performance at 60fps, including things like minimum average fps etc.
They (Sony) easily have the market position to do this (and Xbox may well join in with them in a project).
Mark Cerny and some of their dev teams have also spoken out in the past about how less than 60fps is unnecessary now on PS5. And you only need to look at how reliable their own AAA games are in terms of framerate. Like or loathe their games, technically they are always top tier here.
"Friends don't let friends play at 30fps" I think is what was said on one of the SoP's or Showcases etc by a lead Sony Dev (might have been a Horizon dev).
@Intr1n5ic No problem. And I'm not saying its right - I have very mixed feelings it would take me multiple paragraphs to list! Just that as I understand it, there is nothing for regulatory bodies to consider.
As I said in my previous reply, Sony are free to sell the games they publish any way they want - and are quite entitled to only sell on their storefront. But in relation to 3rd party games, this could get very messy.
I would still be surprised if there is not an option for adding a drive to the PS6 for other publishers physical games and back catalogues, but others aren't as sure. And you raise a good point, we could see more deals for wallet top ups or online stores could well start to get more into selling digital codes - which we don't really see that much of at the moment.
@Bizzy I'm not 100% sure - like you I have never done this. I suppose it depends on what mark up the store is willing to accept (and the same goes for Sony).
@Intr1n5ic I don't believe there is anything for regulatory bodies to even consider, providing Sony continue to cater to digital codes sold by retailers for 3rd party games.
(This is like for like what they offer via their storefront. ie If they only allowed retailers to sell digital codes, but they sold discs for 3rd party then thats a problem, but like for like (digital codes - digital storefront) is fine).
They do not need to allow digital code sales by retailers for the games they publish, as they are free to sell exclusively.
Retailers effectively "dug their own grave' by selling digital models I'm afraid to say.
@Bizzy As I understand it, as long as they cater to digital codes sold by retailers, then that is sufficient.
If Sony themselves were selling physical copies via an online store, but not allowing others to, that would be a problem. But a digital code is like for like with their digital storefront.
Personally, I would prefer the PS5 Pro solution over including a disc drive - why should 'all digital' customers have to pay for a disc drive, that's ridiculous.
@themightyant Unless I am wrong, I can only see that this applies to Sony's studios. Other devs are still able to supply on discs, plus PS5 and prior collections - I honestly can't see the PS6 not having an optional disc drive (so same as PS5 Pro).
@Yor-sama @Max_the_German To be fair (and I have added a like to both your comments), and if it is indeed not 60fps, this is in my opinion probably a case of R* just doing what they please, and adding far too many barely noticeable systems without caring, and without a target in mind. Then at the end of the day going "yay - it reaches 30fps; that will do".
Its not like there are 100+ million consoles that all use effectively the same CPU (with Pro a bit faster), and its not like 60fps has been the console expectation for 6 years. (Sarcasm)
It's still 100% their fault. Its like having a perfectly good car that will comfortably drive a family of 5, and then adding a trailer with a 100 piece band in for slightly better driving music (when the audio system works perfectly well), and expecting the engine to cope.
I wanted to play this (if it was in any fit state), but the state they released, and left it in was laughable at best. I wouldn't bother playing it if it were free.
@Nightcrawler71 As far as I can see (and take this with a pinch of salt as I don't own it so can't check it out to see what it is actually doing):
(Balanced mode on 60hz TV) Base PS5 - locks to 30fps. It may possibly be a more stable 30fps than quality mode). Pro - it appears this will target 48fps and above, but can drop below the 48fps VRR range at times. If you don't have VRR available at all, it may well lock to 30fps as well.
@NicolausCamp And thats fine. It sounds like you fit into the group he was referring to - You wouldn't switch to PS, and are only interested in Sony games if on PC.
My point though was that its just as, if not more important to use exclusives to KEEP customers, as opposed to just gaining them. Sony has, over many years, attracted a lot of people to their system with a certain type of single player game. Allowing those games onto PC, removes 1 incentive for those gamers to stay.
Sony's exclusives are a major draw to keep me on PlayStation - Sony would need to screw up quite badly, for me to seriously consider an alternative at this time. PC also needs to take a major leap forwards in ease of use / simplicity too - in fact, I know a number of people in the last couple of years who have made the leap from PC to PS5 (Pro in most cases) for just that reason.
@OwenOtter Not having a 60fps option is now something from 6 years in the past!
Assuming that DF are correct. It is ridiculous that any developer would even consider doing this now - and it is a choice, no matter what rubbish anyone says about CPU's - they chose to make a game that can't work at 60fps on 100+ million consoles, by letting ambition exceed their ability.
And (again if DF is correct) there WILL be people who don't know they won't be able to play at 30fps, including those who don't know what 30fps is, and those who think they still can tolerate 30fps, but can't. I knew nothing about framerates before I started having problems (which happened very quickly).
Less than 60fps (or bad 60fps) is completely unacceptable, no matter what the reason, in 2026.
The price issue is a bit of an odd one. It feels like they are just trying to push a £90 price, but hiding it behind a £70 incomplete option. I'm hoping reviews look at this further, and downscore accordingly. I'm not dead against £80 games - but they need to be honest, justify it, and launch in an excellent state. £90 is excessive though and I do not like how they appear to have gone about this.
I'm mostly digital now, but the 'code in a box' is an awful, and wasteful practice. There are better ways round preventing spoilers (eg Physical launch 2 weeks late), and I think most would accept a minor mark-up for a complete disc.
You are very right in saying that people who accept these sort of bad practices for a game are just giving a green light for others to do it, and maybe push things even further.
@PuppetMaster Yes, sadly some do just give companies like R* a free pass on things like this. Personally, I would hold them to a higher standard because of their budget / sales expectations.
If this news is true, I feel very sorry for those who have issues with lower framerates but just don't know enough on the subject to avoid this game. They use Performance modes, and thats about as much as they know.
I can only think of a few rare titles that don't have a 60fps mode this gen (none on Pro) - 60fps is now simply normal.
They buy this game, not really knowing the difference and then feel uncomfortable playing it, all because the developer decided to make a game that is unsuitable for current hardware.
Of course you will also have those that think they can still play 30fps, but can't. Or those who buy a new TV, and the display tech is just different enough that they can't tolerate 30fps anymore.
There will be a lot of unsatisfied people at launch.
@Luigia I can't have any fun at less than 60fps. Unless you consider a bad headache and feeling sick being fun. I know and have spoken to lots of others in the same situation.
@Andy22385 Whilst VRR does make things better, it still won't stop me getting sick / headaches. I can see very small fps drops below 60fps, even with VRR on, and frequent 55fps with VRR is still a complete no go for me.
40fps modes don't work correctly using 60hz TV modes as VRR doesn't operate below 48fps (or more accurately down to a 48hz refresh rate).
What VRR actually does is try to match the TV refresh rate to your console fps rate, but as I said this only works down to 48hz refresh rate on your TV, and even then is not perfect.
Without VRR operating, your TV is refreshing 60 times per second. If your console is only outputting a new frame 40 times per second, sometimes when your TV refreshes it will see a new frame, other times it will not (20 out 60 times). Leading to inconsistent frame timing, which will look juddery (more often than not your TV sees a new frame, but other times sees the old frame).
However, you can get a smooth running 40fps by using a 120hz TV mode without VRR. This is too low a framerate for me to use but I will explain the principle. The console outputs 40 new frames a second, but the TV refreshes 120 times per second. This means that a very consistent patten is reached with the TV seeing a new frame every 3 times it refreshes (the refresh pattern is New, old, old, New, old, old etc).
This method (without VRR) can work and only can work smoothly where the framerate is the refresh rate divisable by a whole number. So at 120hz - 120fps, 60fps, 40fps, 30fps; and at 60hz - 60fps, 30fps.
You can apply VRR to this, providing the TV is running >48hz. So for a 40fps mode at 120hz if the fps dropped to 39, it could instruct the TV to refresh at (3 x 39 =) 117hz, and if it dropped to 38fps it can instruct the TV to refresh at 114hz etc etc. This is generally referred to as Low framerate compensation.
I don't really know what specific games are attempting on their balanced modes if your TV is only 60hz, and it's certainly possible they will default to 30fps.
@Balaam_ Thats a good point about the Pro's CPU, and I can remember Mark Cerny discussing this a while back.
My view though is that this just makes it even more unacceptable when a developer can't keep their ambitions in check, within their own ability levels, and makes a game that is not 60fps. There are over 100 million console CPU's out there that are basically the same with a modest speed improvement for Pro.
@Vaako007 Some 'average gamers' will care - they just wont know why they have an issue with the game.
Someone I know who you would class as an average, or even casual gamer, and who had no idea what a framerate was, mentioned to me about feelings of nausea/ headaches while playing games. He was ready to stop playing games entirely, and had much reduced his gaming time.
I changed the game he was playing from 30fps to 60fps, and no more issues.
Obviously, I taught him about the settings he needs, but before this he had no clue what framerate was.
@helloim_anthony I used to be able to tolerate under 60fps, but I can't now, and this change happened very fast.
Anything other than more or less locked 60fps means I feel sick and get headaches within about 10mins. I do not adjust, and just get worse.
There are a number of factors why this has changed for people over the years, and is FAR more common these days. Principally, TV display tech has changed. People are also more used to 60fps, and there may even be links with personal experience, age, etc. Even the level of detail in games, and how they render motion can have a big effect - eg PSSR2 on Pro looks a lot smoother, even if the framerate is unchanged (I get the same level of 'comfort' from PSSR at 60fps, as non PSSR at about 75fps).
@Andy22385 Not everyone can. 55fps consistently is too low for my 'eyes to adjust'. I just get sick and get headaches, and all playing longer does is make it worse. I have known / spoken to a lot of people who are similar.
There is no excuse for designing a game which cannot acheive 60fps on current gen consoles, particularly Pro. There are over 100 million consoles with similar CPU's out there (including PS5/Pro, Series S/X).
If a game cannot achieve 60fps, the developers have let their ambition exceed their ability, which is VERY POOR work.
@Psofo It is not entitled of customers to WANT whats best for them, but it is entitled of customers to EXPECT what is best for them.
Sony has to look at how much actual profit they can realistically expect, on average, from a customer who buys at this stage in the generation. That's profit from store mark up (not the money that goes to studios), and net profit (not gross income) from subscription services.
Should they subsidise each unit for example £400 to get the price low, if they can only realistically expect an average of say £200?
Maybe they should just give the consoles away, because thats whats 'best' for customers?
Price increases i'm sure have led to a drop off in demand - it certainly doesn't look like the natural demand reduction you see over a generation.
Unfortunately, I think that Sony just can't do more in this area. We already see that they raise their prices significantly after Xbox raise theirs.
It is very entitled of customers to expect Sony to keep increasing the subsidised amount to keep prices down - particularly this late in the generation, where they may see a much reduced return (through games, subs, etc) per unit.
@Leeg Quite the opposite for me. I played GoT when it first launched and was fairly underwhelmed by it, and was very hesitant to buy GoY. In the end, reviews won me over and I'm glad they did, as I found GoY a massive improvement on GoT in every single aspect.
One thing some people are not considering is that Sony will not want to subsidise as much as time goes on after launch.
We could easily be looking at a PS6 launching at £1000 (fairly heavily subsidised), and gaining in price for a few years - even if parts come down in price, Sony will want to subsidise less and less.
They are well aware that the return from subsidising reduces from customers who buy later, even if thats only a year or 2 after launch.
@nomither6 You see I think the opposite. I believe cross gen keeps developers in check, and helps prevent them from getting too ambitious for their ability. I still replay games released in the cross gen period now, particularly those with excellent Pro enhancements.
@Orpheus79V I think that sounds like a decent plan. I'm not sure about 2037 for PS7, but it could work for me if they release a highly capable Pro half way through.
On price, I think any subsidising will be offset with further price rises unfortunately, and that it may well launch (subsidised) at around $1000, or maybe a touch more, but I am guessing.
@nomither6 Some people want it - particularly given the rumoured launch of 2027 / 2028. I'm sorry if you can't / don't want to afford it, but cross gen will last quite some time, and I'm all for Sony mandating PS5/Pro/PS6 versions of all games until they can get the price down.
If you want them to delay until prices come down, you may be talking years, and its unlikely Sony will be able to upgrade the hardware much during a delay.
Personally, I like the idea of a long cross gen period next gen.
At £1000 it certainly won't keep pace with PS5, launch aligned sales, but I think it will sell a bit better than some think it will.
As long as the hardware is good enough, sorry, yes, I would buy at that price.
Particularly as I expect that around 6 months after launch PS5 will effectively become a 30fps machine.
They should release as an optional upgrade though with PS5/Pro & PS6 versions of every game, until they can get the price down - then remove the PS5 requirement.
Its not Sony's fault, and all hardware is extremely expensive.
My suggestion would be that sites like Pushsquare take this into account when scoring:
If the base game feels lacking due to the removed content, then low score the game.
If the Ultimate edition feels too expensive for what is included, then low score the game.
(I'm not saying Pushsquare do a bad job but) Poor practices, including bugs, performance issues, egregious microtransactions etc need to be penalised far more heavily in reviews (by everyone) or it is just accepting these practices.
Even if you are sceptical of the 8:1 ratio, 6:1 is a bad enough indicator of game sales on Xbox (even compensating for the userbase difference). 8:1 would be a disaster in my opinion.
The fact that Xbox made the statement they did, suggests to me at least that there is some accuracy here, and it is something they didn't want out there.
@Skinny-Pete Yes, thats what I have been saying - the PS userbase is approx 3x the size, but according to the info here, the pre order difference is much larger, in fact twice this, with 6x as many on PS. Indicating the current per user purchase rate of PS users is twice that of Xbox users.
I only gave Gamepass as 1 reason, amongst others, for this disparity in buying liklihood between PS users and Xbox users - whatever you want to believe, it is likely to have an effect.
Of course some Xbox users will still buy the game - a lot in fact; but (according to the data so far) only half as many as should be expected to, based on sales on PS. Hence why I said that this info shows a much bigger story.
@Skinny-Pete Sorry, but I just do not see how this is Pushsquare attempting to "fan the console war flame which is always the main point of the site." They have been very fair in their reporting imo.
I also don't think a simple bit of data analysis and reasoning creates any need to "get a grip". I just believe that the 2x comparative difference between units and game sales, if this data is in any way representative, and whatever the cause (I have listed all the ones I can think of), makes for grim reading for Xbox as a sustainable platform.
In regards your point about pre orders - of course they are only an indication of sales, and total sales will be higher, but they will still likely be a good indication of relative sales, and that is all we are talking here.
@Skinny-Pete
The figures (if accurate) are telling a much bigger story though.
PS : Xbox units are approx 3:1, however sales are 6:1.
That means that an individual PS owner is twice as likely to be buying the game as an individual Xbox owner.
If the figures are accurate, it is a fairly quantifiable indication of the belief that Xbox owners do not buy as many games as PS owners - in this case Xbox owners are only half as likely to buy the game.
Now whether you put this large difference down to:
the effect of Gamepass,
or, a lot of Xbox owners also owning PS5 consoles and that prefer to play on PS5,
or to the strength of marketing on PS5 is better,
or a combination of all of this.
It is still a fairly depressing figure for actual game sales on Xbox consoles.
@PsBoxSwitchOwner I think what you have said is far more likely than a lot of the alternatives.
The retailers have been seeing the lower unit sales since the prices went up, and are trying to counter that with a 'get in quick because we may not have PS5/Pro's later in the year'. GTA6 sounds like a convenient excuse.
Its actually quite clever if Sony are limiting units, because a shortage in the next few months will seem like Sony's fault. Whereas a shortage later in the year can be blamed on retailers 'not being ready for / underestimating GTA6'.
@Neither_scene Same here. For me, 60fps (with a very small tolerance) is my 1 red line when buying games. Anything below and I will have headaches / feel sick within 10 minutes of play.
Comments 3,883
Re: Sony Takes Social Media Time Out After Controversially Killing Physical Games
@PuppetMaster
I do wonder how many people upset with Sony at the moment about this, pre ordered (or are intending to) GTA6.
(I will be 'outraged' if the game doesn't support 60fps - but if it doesn't have a strong 60fps, I will not buy it until it does, even if that is never.)
I also have big questions as to what people think has been announced. Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I can see it only pertains to games published by Sony, nothing more.
It does not (again, as far as I can tell), mean that PS6 won't have a disc drive. (I think there is 0% chance of it coming with one and nobody should expect this, but it could still have an optional drive as per PS5 Pro).
Re: Sony Takes Social Media Time Out After Controversially Killing Physical Games
@get2sammyb @LogicStrikesAgain
I think a lot of the timing for Sony's announcement of them ceasing Physical versions of their games (and only their games?) is how well GTA6 is selling right now, despite being digital only.
All those rushing to pre-order this game have sent Sony the message that this is OK, and Sony had the announcement 'ready to go'.
(NB I am only talking the digital announcement- the PS3/Vita store is likely a legal notification as Sammy said).
Edit: Xbox on a self destruct course probably helped with the timing too.
Re: PS6 Release Now Expected End of 2028, According to Analyst
I've always thought PS6 would be 4 years after PS5 Pro, so 2028, but I do think the timing of yesterday's news adds extra credence to this.
Re: PS6 Release Now Expected End of 2028, According to Analyst
@UltimateOtaku91
I actually think it makes a lot of sense.
Stop discs during PS5, wait (nearly) a year, release PS6 - this distances PS6 from the decision to stop discs, any bad feeling will have died down as people have got used to it, and here is the shiny new PS6!
The alternative (launch 2027) means they would be promoting PS6 in the 6 months prior to stopping discs when people are likely talking about this decision (more and more up to the stop date). It also makes it look like PS6 is linked to said decision, and sours the mood at a time Sony want people to be celebrating PS6.
Re: Now Even Rockstar Says GTA 6 Plays Best on PS5
@Yor-sama
I do totally agree with you, and have said similar in the past.
I'm actually very surprised Sony haven't created a minimum standard for performance at 60fps, including things like minimum average fps etc.
They (Sony) easily have the market position to do this (and Xbox may well join in with them in a project).
Mark Cerny and some of their dev teams have also spoken out in the past about how less than 60fps is unnecessary now on PS5. And you only need to look at how reliable their own AAA games are in terms of framerate. Like or loathe their games, technically they are always top tier here.
"Friends don't let friends play at 30fps" I think is what was said on one of the SoP's or Showcases etc by a lead Sony Dev (might have been a Horizon dev).
Re: Just 15% of All PS5 Software Was Purchased Physically Last Quarter
@Intr1n5ic
No problem.
And I'm not saying its right - I have very mixed feelings it would take me multiple paragraphs to list! Just that as I understand it, there is nothing for regulatory bodies to consider.
As I said in my previous reply, Sony are free to sell the games they publish any way they want - and are quite entitled to only sell on their storefront.
But in relation to 3rd party games, this could get very messy.
I would still be surprised if there is not an option for adding a drive to the PS6 for other publishers physical games and back catalogues, but others aren't as sure.
And you raise a good point, we could see more deals for wallet top ups or online stores could well start to get more into selling digital codes - which we don't really see that much of at the moment.
Re: Just 15% of All PS5 Software Was Purchased Physically Last Quarter
@Bizzy
I'm not 100% sure - like you I have never done this. I suppose it depends on what mark up the store is willing to accept (and the same goes for Sony).
Re: Just 15% of All PS5 Software Was Purchased Physically Last Quarter
@Intr1n5ic
I don't believe there is anything for regulatory bodies to even consider, providing Sony continue to cater to digital codes sold by retailers for 3rd party games.
(This is like for like what they offer via their storefront. ie If they only allowed retailers to sell digital codes, but they sold discs for 3rd party then thats a problem, but like for like (digital codes - digital storefront) is fine).
They do not need to allow digital code sales by retailers for the games they publish, as they are free to sell exclusively.
Retailers effectively "dug their own grave' by selling digital models I'm afraid to say.
Re: Just 15% of All PS5 Software Was Purchased Physically Last Quarter
@Bizzy
As I understand it, as long as they cater to digital codes sold by retailers, then that is sufficient.
If Sony themselves were selling physical copies via an online store, but not allowing others to, that would be a problem. But a digital code is like for like with their digital storefront.
Re: PS6 Will Be a Digital Console, And Sony Has Huge Questions to Answer About Backwards Compatibility
Personally, I would prefer the PS5 Pro solution over including a disc drive - why should 'all digital' customers have to pay for a disc drive, that's ridiculous.
An add on option is still required though.
Re: Just 15% of All PS5 Software Was Purchased Physically Last Quarter
@themightyant
Unless I am wrong, I can only see that this applies to Sony's studios. Other devs are still able to supply on discs, plus PS5 and prior collections - I honestly can't see the PS6 not having an optional disc drive (so same as PS5 Pro).
Re: Just 15% of All PS5 Software Was Purchased Physically Last Quarter
@get2sammyb
Am I correct in saying that this applies to Sony Studios games only?
Re: The Latest PS5 Firmware Update Is Available Now, Here's What It Does
The industry (and world) could do with a bit more stability, so I will take any I can get.
Re: Now Even Rockstar Says GTA 6 Plays Best on PS5
@Yor-sama @Max_the_German
To be fair (and I have added a like to both your comments), and if it is indeed not 60fps, this is in my opinion probably a case of R* just doing what they please, and adding far too many barely noticeable systems without caring, and without a target in mind. Then at the end of the day going "yay - it reaches 30fps; that will do".
Its not like there are 100+ million consoles that all use effectively the same CPU (with Pro a bit faster), and its not like 60fps has been the console expectation for 6 years. (Sarcasm)
It's still 100% their fault. Its like having a perfectly good car that will comfortably drive a family of 5, and then adding a trailer with a 100 piece band in for slightly better driving music (when the audio system works perfectly well), and expecting the engine to cope.
Re: Now Even Rockstar Says GTA 6 Plays Best on PS5
Sorry, but its meaningless if it isn't 60fps
Re: Oblivion Remastered's Switch 2 News Is a Sad Reminder That the Game's Still a Mess on PS5
I wanted to play this (if it was in any fit state), but the state they released, and left it in was laughable at best. I wouldn't bother playing it if it were free.
Re: PS5 Pro Adds Extra Shine to Your Assassin's Creed: Black Flag Remake
@Nightcrawler71
As far as I can see (and take this with a pinch of salt as I don't own it so can't check it out to see what it is actually doing):
(Balanced mode on 60hz TV)
Base PS5 - locks to 30fps. It may possibly be a more stable 30fps than quality mode).
Pro - it appears this will target 48fps and above, but can drop below the 48fps VRR range at times. If you don't have VRR available at all, it may well lock to 30fps as well.
Re: 'I Don't Know What They're Thinking': Ex-PlayStation Boss Weighs in on Sony's PC Port Backtracking
@NicolausCamp
And thats fine. It sounds like you fit into the group he was referring to - You wouldn't switch to PS, and are only interested in Sony games if on PC.
My point though was that its just as, if not more important to use exclusives to KEEP customers, as opposed to just gaining them.
Sony has, over many years, attracted a lot of people to their system with a certain type of single player game. Allowing those games onto PC, removes 1 incentive for those gamers to stay.
Sony's exclusives are a major draw to keep me on PlayStation - Sony would need to screw up quite badly, for me to seriously consider an alternative at this time.
PC also needs to take a major leap forwards in ease of use / simplicity too - in fact, I know a number of people in the last couple of years who have made the leap from PC to PS5 (Pro in most cases) for just that reason.
Re: 'I Don't Know What They're Thinking': Ex-PlayStation Boss Weighs in on Sony's PC Port Backtracking
"I think if someone's waiting 18 months for something to come on PC, we didn't lose a sale to them. They weren't going to buy the hardware anyway."
Thats all well and good, but the main issue is that Sony don't want to lose brand value, then customers to PC.
Not being able to play Sony 1st party games on PC is 1 of a few big reasons I have no interest in moving to PC next gen.
Re: 'Likely the Largest Single Layoff Event in Gaming History': Ominous Words as Xbox 'Bloodbath' Looms
@ShadowRJ
I think if I worked for an Xbox studio, I would absolutely dread being asked to supply a video for a showcase...
If some of these videos were designed to act as sales pitches, well thats just awful.
Re: 'Likely the Largest Single Layoff Event in Gaming History': Ominous Words as Xbox 'Bloodbath' Looms
"Xbox is going to be supremely unpopular for a very long time"
I don't see them as hugely popular now.
"and the devastation is going to reverberate like the meteor that took out the dinosaurs."
Okay, that may be going a bit far (well, unless they announce they are bringing an AI called Skynet online), and doesn't really help anyone.
Re: GTA 6 Not Expected to Run at 60fps on Any PS5 Console
@helloim_anthony
I think you misunderstand, I don't get headaches and feel sick BECAUSE I don't play poorly made games that don't keep to 60fps.
I gave you a number of reasons why people who used to be able to tolerate 30fps, no longer can.
Re: GTA 6 Not Expected to Run at 60fps on Any PS5 Console
@OwenOtter
Not having a 60fps option is now something from 6 years in the past!
Assuming that DF are correct.
It is ridiculous that any developer would even consider doing this now - and it is a choice, no matter what rubbish anyone says about CPU's - they chose to make a game that can't work at 60fps on 100+ million consoles, by letting ambition exceed their ability.
And (again if DF is correct) there WILL be people who don't know they won't be able to play at 30fps, including those who don't know what 30fps is, and those who think they still can tolerate 30fps, but can't.
I knew nothing about framerates before I started having problems (which happened very quickly).
Less than 60fps (or bad 60fps) is completely unacceptable, no matter what the reason, in 2026.
The price issue is a bit of an odd one. It feels like they are just trying to push a £90 price, but hiding it behind a £70 incomplete option. I'm hoping reviews look at this further, and downscore accordingly.
I'm not dead against £80 games - but they need to be honest, justify it, and launch in an excellent state.
£90 is excessive though and I do not like how they appear to have gone about this.
I'm mostly digital now, but the 'code in a box' is an awful, and wasteful practice. There are better ways round preventing spoilers (eg Physical launch 2 weeks late), and I think most would accept a minor mark-up for a complete disc.
You are very right in saying that people who accept these sort of bad practices for a game are just giving a green light for others to do it, and maybe push things even further.
Re: GTA 6 Not Expected to Run at 60fps on Any PS5 Console
@PuppetMaster
Yes, sadly some do just give companies like R* a free pass on things like this. Personally, I would hold them to a higher standard because of their budget / sales expectations.
If this news is true, I feel very sorry for those who have issues with lower framerates but just don't know enough on the subject to avoid this game.
They use Performance modes, and thats about as much as they know.
I can only think of a few rare titles that don't have a 60fps mode this gen (none on Pro) - 60fps is now simply normal.
They buy this game, not really knowing the difference and then feel uncomfortable playing it, all because the developer decided to make a game that is unsuitable for current hardware.
Of course you will also have those that think they can still play 30fps, but can't.
Or those who buy a new TV, and the display tech is just different enough that they can't tolerate 30fps anymore.
There will be a lot of unsatisfied people at launch.
Re: GTA 6 Not Expected to Run at 60fps on Any PS5 Console
@Luigia
I can't have any fun at less than 60fps. Unless you consider a bad headache and feeling sick being fun.
I know and have spoken to lots of others in the same situation.
Re: GTA 6 Not Expected to Run at 60fps on Any PS5 Console
@Andy22385
Whilst VRR does make things better, it still won't stop me getting sick / headaches. I can see very small fps drops below 60fps, even with VRR on, and frequent 55fps with VRR is still a complete no go for me.
Re: PS5 Pro Adds Extra Shine to Your Assassin's Creed: Black Flag Remake
@Nightcrawler71
As simply as I can:
40fps modes don't work correctly using 60hz TV modes as VRR doesn't operate below 48fps (or more accurately down to a 48hz refresh rate).
What VRR actually does is try to match the TV refresh rate to your console fps rate, but as I said this only works down to 48hz refresh rate on your TV, and even then is not perfect.
Without VRR operating, your TV is refreshing 60 times per second. If your console is only outputting a new frame 40 times per second, sometimes when your TV refreshes it will see a new frame, other times it will not (20 out 60 times). Leading to inconsistent frame timing, which will look juddery (more often than not your TV sees a new frame, but other times sees the old frame).
However, you can get a smooth running 40fps by using a 120hz TV mode without VRR. This is too low a framerate for me to use but I will explain the principle.
The console outputs 40 new frames a second, but the TV refreshes 120 times per second. This means that a very consistent patten is reached with the TV seeing a new frame every 3 times it refreshes (the refresh pattern is New, old, old, New, old, old etc).
This method (without VRR) can work and only can work smoothly where the framerate is the refresh rate divisable by a whole number. So at 120hz - 120fps, 60fps, 40fps, 30fps; and at 60hz - 60fps, 30fps.
You can apply VRR to this, providing the TV is running >48hz. So for a 40fps mode at 120hz if the fps dropped to 39, it could instruct the TV to refresh at (3 x 39 =) 117hz, and if it dropped to 38fps it can instruct the TV to refresh at 114hz etc etc. This is generally referred to as Low framerate compensation.
I don't really know what specific games are attempting on their balanced modes if your TV is only 60hz, and it's certainly possible they will default to 30fps.
Re: GTA 6 Not Expected to Run at 60fps on Any PS5 Console
@Balaam_
Thats a good point about the Pro's CPU, and I can remember Mark Cerny discussing this a while back.
My view though is that this just makes it even more unacceptable when a developer can't keep their ambitions in check, within their own ability levels, and makes a game that is not 60fps. There are over 100 million console CPU's out there that are basically the same with a modest speed improvement for Pro.
Re: GTA 6 Not Expected to Run at 60fps on Any PS5 Console
@Vaako007
Some 'average gamers' will care - they just wont know why they have an issue with the game.
Someone I know who you would class as an average, or even casual gamer, and who had no idea what a framerate was, mentioned to me about feelings of nausea/ headaches while playing games. He was ready to stop playing games entirely, and had much reduced his gaming time.
I changed the game he was playing from 30fps to 60fps, and no more issues.
Obviously, I taught him about the settings he needs, but before this he had no clue what framerate was.
Re: GTA 6 Not Expected to Run at 60fps on Any PS5 Console
@helloim_anthony
I used to be able to tolerate under 60fps, but I can't now, and this change happened very fast.
Anything other than more or less locked 60fps means I feel sick and get headaches within about 10mins. I do not adjust, and just get worse.
There are a number of factors why this has changed for people over the years, and is FAR more common these days.
Principally, TV display tech has changed. People are also more used to 60fps, and there may even be links with personal experience, age, etc. Even the level of detail in games, and how they render motion can have a big effect - eg PSSR2 on Pro looks a lot smoother, even if the framerate is unchanged (I get the same level of 'comfort' from PSSR at 60fps, as non PSSR at about 75fps).
Re: GTA 6 Not Expected to Run at 60fps on Any PS5 Console
@Andy22385
Not everyone can. 55fps consistently is too low for my 'eyes to adjust'.
I just get sick and get headaches, and all playing longer does is make it worse.
I have known / spoken to a lot of people who are similar.
Re: GTA 6 Not Expected to Run at 60fps on Any PS5 Console
There is no excuse for designing a game which cannot acheive 60fps on current gen consoles, particularly Pro.
There are over 100 million consoles with similar CPU's out there (including PS5/Pro, Series S/X).
If a game cannot achieve 60fps, the developers have let their ambition exceed their ability, which is VERY POOR work.
Re: No Drop-Off in PS5 Demand Despite Price Increases, Says Sony
@Psofo
It is not entitled of customers to WANT whats best for them, but it is entitled of customers to EXPECT what is best for them.
Sony has to look at how much actual profit they can realistically expect, on average, from a customer who buys at this stage in the generation. That's profit from store mark up (not the money that goes to studios), and net profit (not gross income) from subscription services.
Should they subsidise each unit for example £400 to get the price low, if they can only realistically expect an average of say £200?
Maybe they should just give the consoles away, because thats whats 'best' for customers?
Re: No Drop-Off in PS5 Demand Despite Price Increases, Says Sony
Price increases i'm sure have led to a drop off in demand - it certainly doesn't look like the natural demand reduction you see over a generation.
Unfortunately, I think that Sony just can't do more in this area. We already see that they raise their prices significantly after Xbox raise theirs.
It is very entitled of customers to expect Sony to keep increasing the subsidised amount to keep prices down - particularly this late in the generation, where they may see a much reduced return (through games, subs, etc) per unit.
Re: Ghost of Yotei Fronts New Japanese Tourism Push with Tours and Merch
@Leeg
Quite the opposite for me. I played GoT when it first launched and was fairly underwhelmed by it, and was very hesitant to buy GoY.
In the end, reviews won me over and I'm glad they did, as I found GoY a massive improvement on GoT in every single aspect.
Re: Rumour: PS6 Costs Sony Almost $1,000 to Make Right Now
One thing some people are not considering is that Sony will not want to subsidise as much as time goes on after launch.
We could easily be looking at a PS6 launching at £1000 (fairly heavily subsidised), and gaining in price for a few years - even if parts come down in price, Sony will want to subsidise less and less.
They are well aware that the return from subsidising reduces from customers who buy later, even if thats only a year or 2 after launch.
Re: Rumour: PS6 Costs Sony Almost $1,000 to Make Right Now
@nomither6
You see I think the opposite. I believe cross gen keeps developers in check, and helps prevent them from getting too ambitious for their ability.
I still replay games released in the cross gen period now, particularly those with excellent Pro enhancements.
Re: Rumour: PS6 Costs Sony Almost $1,000 to Make Right Now
@Orpheus79V
I think that sounds like a decent plan.
I'm not sure about 2037 for PS7, but it could work for me if they release a highly capable Pro half way through.
On price, I think any subsidising will be offset with further price rises unfortunately, and that it may well launch (subsidised) at around $1000, or maybe a touch more, but I am guessing.
Re: Rumour: PS6 Costs Sony Almost $1,000 to Make Right Now
@nomither6
Some people want it - particularly given the rumoured launch of 2027 / 2028.
I'm sorry if you can't / don't want to afford it, but cross gen will last quite some time, and I'm all for Sony mandating PS5/Pro/PS6 versions of all games until they can get the price down.
If you want them to delay until prices come down, you may be talking years, and its unlikely Sony will be able to upgrade the hardware much during a delay.
Personally, I like the idea of a long cross gen period next gen.
At £1000 it certainly won't keep pace with PS5, launch aligned sales, but I think it will sell a bit better than some think it will.
Re: Rumour: PS6 Costs Sony Almost $1,000 to Make Right Now
As long as the hardware is good enough, sorry, yes, I would buy at that price.
Particularly as I expect that around 6 months after launch PS5 will effectively become a 30fps machine.
They should release as an optional upgrade though with PS5/Pro & PS6 versions of every game, until they can get the price down - then remove the PS5 requirement.
Its not Sony's fault, and all hardware is extremely expensive.
Re: Talking Point: Is GTA 6's Dodgy Ultimate Edition a Deal-Breaker?
@PuppetMaster
At the time, I just laughed incredulously at that Horse armour.
If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have been laughing...
Re: Talking Point: Is GTA 6's Dodgy Ultimate Edition a Deal-Breaker?
My suggestion would be that sites like Pushsquare take this into account when scoring:
(I'm not saying Pushsquare do a bad job but) Poor practices, including bugs, performance issues, egregious microtransactions etc need to be penalised far more heavily in reviews (by everyone) or it is just accepting these practices.
Re: Microsoft Responds to Reports of GTA 6 PS5 Pre-Orders Trouncing Xbox
Even if you are sceptical of the 8:1 ratio, 6:1 is a bad enough indicator of game sales on Xbox (even compensating for the userbase difference).
8:1 would be a disaster in my opinion.
The fact that Xbox made the statement they did, suggests to me at least that there is some accuracy here, and it is something they didn't want out there.
Re: PS5 Pre-Orders of GTA 6 Apparently Outpacing Xbox by 6:1
@Skinny-Pete
Yes, thats what I have been saying - the PS userbase is approx 3x the size, but according to the info here, the pre order difference is much larger, in fact twice this, with 6x as many on PS. Indicating the current per user purchase rate of PS users is twice that of Xbox users.
I only gave Gamepass as 1 reason, amongst others, for this disparity in buying liklihood between PS users and Xbox users - whatever you want to believe, it is likely to have an effect.
Of course some Xbox users will still buy the game - a lot in fact; but (according to the data so far) only half as many as should be expected to, based on sales on PS.
Hence why I said that this info shows a much bigger story.
Re: PS5 Pre-Orders of GTA 6 Apparently Outpacing Xbox by 6:1
@Skinny-Pete
Sorry, but I just do not see how this is Pushsquare attempting to "fan the console war flame which is always the main point of the site." They have been very fair in their reporting imo.
I also don't think a simple bit of data analysis and reasoning creates any need to "get a grip".
I just believe that the 2x comparative difference between units and game sales, if this data is in any way representative, and whatever the cause (I have listed all the ones I can think of), makes for grim reading for Xbox as a sustainable platform.
In regards your point about pre orders - of course they are only an indication of sales, and total sales will be higher, but they will still likely be a good indication of relative sales, and that is all we are talking here.
Re: PS5 Pre-Orders of GTA 6 Apparently Outpacing Xbox by 6:1
@Skinny-Pete
The figures (if accurate) are telling a much bigger story though.
PS : Xbox units are approx 3:1, however sales are 6:1.
That means that an individual PS owner is twice as likely to be buying the game as an individual Xbox owner.
If the figures are accurate, it is a fairly quantifiable indication of the belief that Xbox owners do not buy as many games as PS owners - in this case Xbox owners are only half as likely to buy the game.
Now whether you put this large difference down to:
It is still a fairly depressing figure for actual game sales on Xbox consoles.
Re: Major Retailer Warns of PS5 Console Shortages in Light of GTA 6
@PsBoxSwitchOwner
I think what you have said is far more likely than a lot of the alternatives.
The retailers have been seeing the lower unit sales since the prices went up, and are trying to counter that with a 'get in quick because we may not have PS5/Pro's later in the year'. GTA6 sounds like a convenient excuse.
Its actually quite clever if Sony are limiting units, because a shortage in the next few months will seem like Sony's fault. Whereas a shortage later in the year can be blamed on retailers 'not being ready for / underestimating GTA6'.
Re: PS5 Pre-Orders of GTA 6 Apparently Outpacing Xbox by 6:1
@Neither_scene
Same here.
For me, 60fps (with a very small tolerance) is my 1 red line when buying games. Anything below and I will have headaches / feel sick within 10 minutes of play.
Re: Price Hiked PS5 Endures Sony's Worst May in Over 25 Years
@Dogbreath
Game prices are now MUCH cheaper (inflation adjusted) than back in the 16bit and in some cases beyond cartridge era.
Re: Price Hiked PS5 Endures Sony's Worst May in Over 25 Years
@LogicStrikesAgain
Are you filling in for Mr Khastik, who I havent seen as often recently?
(Who I hope is all good if reading this)