@TDHorizon unfortunately though a big contributor IS over inflation and salaries and time. Because it takes time to find concepts, time to make those concepts into something tangible and time to develop it further, that time amounts into salaries being paid and other overheads to be managed. But an even somehow bigger contributor is strategic stupidity or just plain short sightedness.
Publishers have a delusion of scale. They assume that inflating a games scope, forcing 200 hours of bloated open world checklist padding and paying premium Hollywood salaries for celebrity led cutscenes somehow guarantees a mass market hit. When in reality, it leaves the core gameplay feeling hollow and drives the price tag to an unforgiving £70.
When it is applied to a franchise that has hype / mass appeal, budget inflation is dangerous (we see this with TLOU 2), but when applied to an inherently niche genre like the kinda sci-fi roguelike framework of Saros, it is such a gamble and almost even corporate suicide. Like Saros can only be made at PlayStation because they are one of the only corporations that can throw money at such a niche thing and keep it single player. They love Housemarque and they want to back them no matter what in my opinion (Housemarque have earned it though). But it is still financially a risk.
At £70 the casual crowd will go elsewhere and it just burdens the game with a financial expectation it cannot possibly meet based on its genre constraints. You cannot price a niche title like Saros identically to a generational hit like Elden Ring and expect the same results. FromSoftware spent over a decade getting global goodwill required to make a difficult, niche genre mainstream. Bumping a studio's budget into the tens of millions and adding celebrity voice talent does not grant a niche IP that level of prestige. What studio has done that and actually succeeded from it?
By ignoring audience fatigue and over scoping targeted, more niche and stylised games, publishers create their own financial failures and then they use those self inflicted failures to justify why they must abandon single-player games for the safety of live service monetisation.
In my opinion that is why single player games have stupid budgets attached to them. Not ONLY because of time and how long it takes to make games these days but because I guess in short, publishers don't know the place of their studios and chase things that most gamers don't want, don't care about or simply probably don't want to spend their money on.
@TDHorizon I agree, which is why it should also have been released on PC. Yet you see people praising Sony not releasing games on PC anymore and then being annoyed when some studios shut.
Ultimately games performing like this are literally why publishers seek live service games. If they fail, move on, maybe try again, maybe shut the studio.
If a single player game with years of development and millions in the budget fails, it sinks everything. As we know, publishers view live service as a portfolio where one massive hit like Helldivers 2 can subsidise ten rapid failures. Single-player games don't enjoy that safety net. They don't bring almost as much revenue even when successful, they are all or nothing gambles.
When a prestigious, first-party single-player game underperforms, it will hurt the developer and worse it will scare the publisher away from funding original, creative IPs and force them back into the cyclical safety of live service monetisation.
That is what this entire generation has been. Publishers are chasing that rainbow and while people get annoyed and wonder why there are less single player games, they fail to support the ones that come, only fueling the dive into live service more and more. Wonder why Guerrilla are pouring so much into the live service Horizon title, and if it fails, there will be another thing to take its place. Sad
Make gaming positive again! Don't be surprised if over the next few months and years there is a lot of reversing bad practices and good PR so people can be positive about gaming and subconsciously buy into the next generation.
I absolutely called this. Shame a lot of people on this site and in the gaming community are just fickle, sad and somewhat pathetic. All people want to do is hate and watch games crash and burn yet at the same time complain that the types of games they want aren't being made. They are, you just don't support them!
@AK4tywill yes!! These new portables are like tablets with gaming focus. Not a terrible thing but they all do look like rectangular slabs with controllers attached (quite literally describing the portal and switch).
I love the portal though, feels like a natural evolution for the Vita, as its pebble shape and lack of things to hold onto sucked for me growing up and any time I fire it up now. The portal is just more comfortable to hold.
Without consoles half the games that exist simply won't be made. Action adventure games, open world games are made and best played with a controller in mind. Fact. PC games and stats back it u[p. The games that perform best on console don't always perform well on PC. I guess with the inflating costs in production it just makes it not worth porting over for a measly few hundred thousand sales.
Ohhh so this is how they would do it. Fits the reports that it feels like a new IP, also relies on some amazingly deep existing lore and world building that can only make anyone interested in history and gaming excited. I guess GOW is Sony's Assassin's Creed now.
@cainhurst94 if Housemarque become a support studio or feel the need to pitch a live service game due to not moving enough units whilst sinking millions into their game development, let's circle back to this.
Returnal sold less than 2 million copies. Around 1.8 million on PS5. It earned around $9 million on Steam. I think losing that market may hurt but I will continue to support Housemarque with every release. They captured me since Dead Nation.
Edit: Numbers may be lower than that, with some reports of less than 1.1 million copies total, so around 900k copies on PS5.
Selling a few hundred thousand copies (if that) on PC is not worth Sony bastardizing their console in their eyes. It kind of makes sense to me. But console exclusivity isn't as beneficial to developers or publishers as it once was. Especially when everyone on console is playing Fifa and Fortnite. Wouldn't hurt for some more niche games (especially roguelites) to be on PC.
You can't really do what Xbox have done and then reverse it in such short time. It isn't like PS putting a few games onto PC after they've been out for a few years. It would be like Sony buying 25 Bungie's and then putting all the games on all platforms then deciding to halt and cancel all future multi platform releases, wasting money and time to then make them exclusive again. Not possible.
I disagree that Saros should be priced lower than the "premium" £70. Because this is a "AAA" game in all sense of the term and if you played Returnal you know that!
This looks amazing. Looks so much more polished and clean than Returnal does. Returnal is literally one of the best looking games of this gen. Can't wait
Never really understood the hate with this game or its visuals. Breath of fresh air, like Helldivers 2 and Horizon is looking.
As an aside, Horizon Hunters Gathering better get an extra year or so in the tank to iron out some of the issues I am seeing with it. I do think the NCSOFT game should've been the more arcadey one and Guerrilla make the realistic looking one but oh well.
@Orpheus79V if they can somehow get a native handheld that can play PS4, PS5 & PS6 games, use streaming as well as have access to older platforms due to the extensive PS library AND have it at a price between £200 - £300 then Sony have produced probably one of the greatest consoles ever made.
I see it being £300 - £450 though. But yes I agree with you here it cannot be online connection only.
@roe Returnal was definitely unfair. I can remember when I beat the second boss. Got to the third biome and just endlessly being killed by some crawling robot or the drones. Having to go back to the start sucked because coming back to the third biome, your gun either sucks or you haven't picked up anything which leaves you under prepared. So you have to do a bit of each biome to get some equipment and guns and proficiency. Making sure you don't take up too much damage just to get killed 5 minutes into biome three. Probably a skill issue but whatever.
It is just punishing by design but it is one of my favourite games ever. I can't understand being disappointed by these changes. I genuinely feel like Saros might top Returnal. If it does, might be my game of the generation.
@MrMajeeny I just thought it was weird that people were complaining about an optional feature made to reduce power consumption. I think it is helpful as well
@Nep-Nep-Freak oh I see your point. I only slightly agree because the government are very short sighted and can't be trusted.
We should push the technology further because it is helpful and can be used for good. We should also push it because there are use cases that we probably haven't come up with yet. We shouldn't use it now to replace any jobs because it isn't very good. We shouldn't develop the technology in the aims of taking over jobs.
The issue with it is just that when companies figure out AI can do things 30 people were doing, the people will get sacked. The technology is cool but honestly the more productivity use cases for AI that are found, the worse off humanity will be. AI doesn't even need to be 40% as good as a human equivalent for these companies to be satisfied with laying them off.
@Nep-Nep-Freak but isn't the point of the research team to create a process where AI does the checking?
Generative AI in its current form is truly flawed and likes to mislead the user in order to 'achieve' its goal. It always takes the shortest path to 'victory'. This won't be good and would take probably longer than 2027 to be actually useful.
I'm not going to lie, I'm ready for next gen. I like new technologies. This gen was a good step forward compared to what has come before in the technological aspect.
On the flip side, something about the world, the negativity and in terms of games, how long they take to come out has hampered the excitement I had in 2019/20 for this gen. I just don't think gaming in general has that spark anymore (aside from a few niche cases) and seeing how mostly the same generation of adults are the biggest audience in gaming (it is not flowing easily to younger generations), I don't think console gaming as it is will have too many more generations.
@JayJ dude let it go. You got some likes, people agreed with you. I didn’t. That doesn’t mean I’m gonna suddenly agree with you just because others did. I’m past making jokey comments going back and forth with you and I’m worrying for your wellbeing now. Let’s move on 👍🏾
I'll be honest, in some scenes, the visuals look flat and lacking any atmosphere. With the graphical advancements of today, this remake should look a little better IMO.
@JayJ at least I haven’t written essays about power saving features that I don’t have to turn on. I’ve got 1 up on you. I guess I haven’t gotten over myself yet.
@Andy22385 actually any game can consume less power. Even if it is just adjusting the level of detail, resolution, render distance, refresh rate, etc, it can be done. Even for Everybodys Golf.
Look at any game that runs on lets say a Steam Deck. Running at between 3-15 watts, if you compare what the game looks like on that vs on PS5, you will see the differences. Even for Everybodys Golf.
For people it is for. Let's say you have kids + energy bills have gone up + it is the end of the month before pay day. It wouldn't hurt to save some pennies and help the engineers at Sony test their low power functionality for the PS6 portable.
Comments 1,919
Re: Saros PS5 Sales Estimates at 300k, Selling Slower Than Returnal on a Bigger Install Base
@TDHorizon unfortunately though a big contributor IS over inflation and salaries and time. Because it takes time to find concepts, time to make those concepts into something tangible and time to develop it further, that time amounts into salaries being paid and other overheads to be managed. But an even somehow bigger contributor is strategic stupidity or just plain short sightedness.
Publishers have a delusion of scale. They assume that inflating a games scope, forcing 200 hours of bloated open world checklist padding and paying premium Hollywood salaries for celebrity led cutscenes somehow guarantees a mass market hit. When in reality, it leaves the core gameplay feeling hollow and drives the price tag to an unforgiving £70.
When it is applied to a franchise that has hype / mass appeal, budget inflation is dangerous (we see this with TLOU 2), but when applied to an inherently niche genre like the kinda sci-fi roguelike framework of Saros, it is such a gamble and almost even corporate suicide. Like Saros can only be made at PlayStation because they are one of the only corporations that can throw money at such a niche thing and keep it single player. They love Housemarque and they want to back them no matter what in my opinion (Housemarque have earned it though). But it is still financially a risk.
At £70 the casual crowd will go elsewhere and it just burdens the game with a financial expectation it cannot possibly meet based on its genre constraints. You cannot price a niche title like Saros identically to a generational hit like Elden Ring and expect the same results. FromSoftware spent over a decade getting global goodwill required to make a difficult, niche genre mainstream. Bumping a studio's budget into the tens of millions and adding celebrity voice talent does not grant a niche IP that level of prestige. What studio has done that and actually succeeded from it?
By ignoring audience fatigue and over scoping targeted, more niche and stylised games, publishers create their own financial failures and then they use those self inflicted failures to justify why they must abandon single-player games for the safety of live service monetisation.
In my opinion that is why single player games have stupid budgets attached to them. Not ONLY because of time and how long it takes to make games these days but because I guess in short, publishers don't know the place of their studios and chase things that most gamers don't want, don't care about or simply probably don't want to spend their money on.
Re: Saros PS5 Sales Estimates at 300k, Selling Slower Than Returnal on a Bigger Install Base
@TDHorizon I agree, which is why it should also have been released on PC. Yet you see people praising Sony not releasing games on PC anymore and then being annoyed when some studios shut.
Ultimately games performing like this are literally why publishers seek live service games. If they fail, move on, maybe try again, maybe shut the studio.
If a single player game with years of development and millions in the budget fails, it sinks everything. As we know, publishers view live service as a portfolio where one massive hit like Helldivers 2 can subsidise ten rapid failures. Single-player games don't enjoy that safety net. They don't bring almost as much revenue even when successful, they are all or nothing gambles.
When a prestigious, first-party single-player game underperforms, it will hurt the developer and worse it will scare the publisher away from funding original, creative IPs and force them back into the cyclical safety of live service monetisation.
That is what this entire generation has been. Publishers are chasing that rainbow and while people get annoyed and wonder why there are less single player games, they fail to support the ones that come, only fueling the dive into live service more and more. Wonder why Guerrilla are pouring so much into the live service Horizon title, and if it fails, there will be another thing to take its place. Sad
Re: PS5 Boss Says He's Seen the Future of Gaming, and It's 'Unbelievably Positive'
Make gaming positive again! Don't be surprised if over the next few months and years there is a lot of reversing bad practices and good PR so people can be positive about gaming and subconsciously buy into the next generation.
Re: Saros PS5 Sales Estimates at 300k, Selling Slower Than Returnal on a Bigger Install Base
I absolutely called this. Shame a lot of people on this site and in the gaming community are just fickle, sad and somewhat pathetic. All people want to do is hate and watch games crash and burn yet at the same time complain that the types of games they want aren't being made. They are, you just don't support them!
Re: Random: Liverpool Footballer Virgil van Dijk Prefers PS Vita to Steam Deck, Switch 2
@AK4tywill yes!! These new portables are like tablets with gaming focus. Not a terrible thing but they all do look like rectangular slabs with controllers attached (quite literally describing the portal and switch).
I love the portal though, feels like a natural evolution for the Vita, as its pebble shape and lack of things to hold onto sucked for me growing up and any time I fire it up now. The portal is just more comfortable to hold.
Re: These Numbers Explain Why Sony Is Stopping Porting PS5 Games to PC
Without consoles half the games that exist simply won't be made. Action adventure games, open world games are made and best played with a controller in mind. Fact. PC games and stats back it u[p. The games that perform best on console don't always perform well on PC. I guess with the inflating costs in production it just makes it not worth porting over for a measly few hundred thousand sales.
Re: Rumour: A God of War PS5 Prequel Not Starring Kratos Will Take Us to Multiple Mythologies
Ohhh so this is how they would do it. Fits the reports that it feels like a new IP, also relies on some amazingly deep existing lore and world building that can only make anyone interested in history and gaming excited. I guess GOW is Sony's Assassin's Creed now.
Re: Saros Looks Like Pure Chaotic Bullet Hell Madness in Latest PS5 Gameplay Clip
Traversal looks great. Hopefully grappling hook is an early unlock like with Returnal
Re: Sony to Drop PSN Branding Later This Year, New Report Claims
Will it just become PlayStation? PlayStation Online Services? Ew
Re: Frantic Shooter Saros Is Shaping Up to Be a Real Showpiece for PS5, PS5 Pro
Boy Rahul Kohli has come a long way from iZombie
Re: 'It's a Laughable Notion': AI Can't Generate Hit Games Like GTA 6, Says Take-Two CEO
In other news, water is wet!!
Re: Starfield Finally Lands on PS5 in April with New DLC and Huge Updates
Unfortunately this game is just flawed on a foundational level. Hope they learn from this
Re: 'No One Is Buying This on PS5': PC Port Begging Already Unbearable as Sony Switches Strategy
@cainhurst94 if Housemarque become a support studio or feel the need to pitch a live service game due to not moving enough units whilst sinking millions into their game development, let's circle back to this.
Returnal sold less than 2 million copies. Around 1.8 million on PS5. It earned around $9 million on Steam. I think losing that market may hurt but I will continue to support Housemarque with every release. They captured me since Dead Nation.
Edit: Numbers may be lower than that, with some reports of less than 1.1 million copies total, so around 900k copies on PS5.
Re: 'No One Is Buying This on PS5': PC Port Begging Already Unbearable as Sony Switches Strategy
Selling a few hundred thousand copies (if that) on PC is not worth Sony bastardizing their console in their eyes. It kind of makes sense to me. But console exclusivity isn't as beneficial to developers or publishers as it once was. Especially when everyone on console is playing Fifa and Fortnite. Wouldn't hurt for some more niche games (especially roguelites) to be on PC.
Re: 'Exclusives Are Absolutely Not Happening': Xbox Helix Will Share Library with PS6
You can't really do what Xbox have done and then reverse it in such short time. It isn't like PS putting a few games onto PC after they've been out for a few years. It would be like Sony buying 25 Bungie's and then putting all the games on all platforms then deciding to halt and cancel all future multi platform releases, wasting money and time to then make them exclusive again. Not possible.
Re: Out Today: Marathon's PS5 Launch Puts Sony's $3B Live Service Gamble to the Test
@nomither6 making a poster for games you want to flop is really some strange online activity. The world needs healing
Re: Out Today: Marathon's PS5 Launch Puts Sony's $3B Live Service Gamble to the Test
Some of you need to look in the mirror and love yourselves
Re: Saros Offers Up Another Crumb of Delicious PS5 Gameplay Footage
@Bob_Tempura Sorry but I disagree.
I agree that all games should be cheaper.
I disagree that Saros should be priced lower than the "premium" £70. Because this is a "AAA" game in all sense of the term and if you played Returnal you know that!
Re: Saros Offers Up Another Crumb of Delicious PS5 Gameplay Footage
@Carnage the post launch update is amazing. Play the tower and do a co-op run with someone. Such fun!
Re: Saros Offers Up Another Crumb of Delicious PS5 Gameplay Footage
This looks amazing. Looks so much more polished and clean than Returnal does. Returnal is literally one of the best looking games of this gen. Can't wait
Re: Sony Returns to PlayStation Exclusivity and Stops Single Player PC Ports, New Report Says
This isn't the good news people think it is sadly lmao
Re: Marathon Server Slam Gets Underway Today - Here's Everything You Need to Know
Never really understood the hate with this game or its visuals. Breath of fresh air, like Helldivers 2 and Horizon is looking.
As an aside, Horizon Hunters Gathering better get an extra year or so in the tank to iron out some of the issues I am seeing with it. I do think the NCSOFT game should've been the more arcadey one and Guerrilla make the realistic looking one but oh well.
Re: Sony Considering PS6 Delay to 2028 or Even 2029, New Report Says
@Orpheus79V if they can somehow get a native handheld that can play PS4, PS5 & PS6 games, use streaming as well as have access to older platforms due to the extensive PS library AND have it at a price between £200 - £300 then Sony have produced probably one of the greatest consoles ever made.
I see it being £300 - £450 though. But yes I agree with you here it cannot be online connection only.
Re: Sony Considering PS6 Delay to 2028 or Even 2029, New Reports Says
By the way, the first paragraph reads: "Sony is considering delaying the launch of the PS5 ..."
Should say PS6.
Either way this is good but I really want the portable console now.
Re: Saros Shaves Off Returnal's Rough Edges for a More Universally Appealing PS5 Roguelite
@roe Returnal was definitely unfair. I can remember when I beat the second boss. Got to the third biome and just endlessly being killed by some crawling robot or the drones. Having to go back to the start sucked because coming back to the third biome, your gun either sucks or you haven't picked up anything which leaves you under prepared. So you have to do a bit of each biome to get some equipment and guns and proficiency. Making sure you don't take up too much damage just to get killed 5 minutes into biome three. Probably a skill issue but whatever.
It is just punishing by design but it is one of my favourite games ever. I can't understand being disappointed by these changes. I genuinely feel like Saros might top Returnal. If it does, might be my game of the generation.
Re: All PS5 Games with Power Saver Support
@MrMajeeny I just thought it was weird that people were complaining about an optional feature made to reduce power consumption. I think it is helpful as well
Re: PS5 Exclusive Saros Delayed, But Pre-Orders Are Live Right Now
Returnal released on the same day in 2021 I believe!
Re: We'll Soon See Whether Heavy Rain Dev's Live Service Multiplayer Gamble Pays Off
Is David Cage gone? What happened to star wars?
Re: PS5 Welcome Hub Update Adds New Stat Tracking, Backgrounds
@nomither6 XMB comeback for PS6 would be stellar
Re: Superhero Adventure Dispatch Projected to Hit Three-Year Sales Target in Three Months
I pray this studio learns from Telltale and doesn't just make the same game over and over again.
Re: GTA 6 Delayed Again, Pushed Back to November 2026
@Dan12836666 you see that as a 2027 release?
Re: GTA 6 Delayed Again, Pushed Back to November 2026
ND's Intergalactic is in big trouble!!!
Re: Square Enix Wants 70% of Its QA and Debugging Work Done by Gen AI
@Nep-Nep-Freak oh I see your point. I only slightly agree because the government are very short sighted and can't be trusted.
We should push the technology further because it is helpful and can be used for good. We should also push it because there are use cases that we probably haven't come up with yet. We shouldn't use it now to replace any jobs because it isn't very good. We shouldn't develop the technology in the aims of taking over jobs.
The issue with it is just that when companies figure out AI can do things 30 people were doing, the people will get sacked. The technology is cool but honestly the more productivity use cases for AI that are found, the worse off humanity will be. AI doesn't even need to be 40% as good as a human equivalent for these companies to be satisfied with laying them off.
Re: Square Enix Wants 70% of Its QA and Debugging Work Done by Gen AI
@Nep-Nep-Freak but isn't the point of the research team to create a process where AI does the checking?
Generative AI in its current form is truly flawed and likes to mislead the user in order to 'achieve' its goal. It always takes the shortest path to 'victory'. This won't be good and would take probably longer than 2027 to be actually useful.
Re: Saints Row Prequel Could Be on the Cards as Original Dev Is Asked for Pitch
Kill it with fire. Just move on to something new. SR was always a smaller scope game. Not an AAA.
In this day and age, Embracer won't greenlight it unless it is AAA scope with inflated budgets, length and nonsense.
Re: 'It Happens on PS5': New PlayStation Adverts Mark Five Years of PS5
I'm not going to lie, I'm ready for next gen. I like new technologies. This gen was a good step forward compared to what has come before in the technological aspect.
On the flip side, something about the world, the negativity and in terms of games, how long they take to come out has hampered the excitement I had in 2019/20 for this gen. I just don't think gaming in general has that spark anymore (aside from a few niche cases) and seeing how mostly the same generation of adults are the biggest audience in gaming (it is not flowing easily to younger generations), I don't think console gaming as it is will have too many more generations.
Re: Talking Point: Is PS5 Really in Competition with TikTok?
@Deljo I'm not proud to admit but sometimes I'm the same. Such a shame I don't hop on my PS5 more than I used to.
Re: All PS5 Games with Power Saver Support
@JayJ dude let it go. You got some likes, people agreed with you. I didn’t. That doesn’t mean I’m gonna suddenly agree with you just because others did. I’m past making jokey comments going back and forth with you and I’m worrying for your wellbeing now. Let’s move on 👍🏾
Re: Millions Tune in for Halo PS5's Reveal on PlayStation's Social Media Accounts
I'll be honest, in some scenes, the visuals look flat and lacking any atmosphere. With the graphical advancements of today, this remake should look a little better IMO.
Re: All PS5 Games with Power Saver Support
@JayJ yes, how very antisocial of me to comment about a pointless comment you made 🫡
Re: All PS5 Games with Power Saver Support
@JayJ at least I haven’t written essays about power saving features that I don’t have to turn on. I’ve got 1 up on you. I guess I haven’t gotten over myself yet.
Re: All PS5 Games with Power Saver Support
@JayJ I got ratio'd??? Oh no 😱😱. My life has come to an end!..
Can you imagine being JayJ and writing essays about power saving features that you don't have to turn on and ratioing people. I bet he's so cool!
Re: Bethesda Is Working on New Fallout Games, Todd Howard Confirms
Work hard on a better, more modern engine that isn't trying to render things far away from the player leading to constant resource drain first please.
Re: All PS5 Games with Power Saver Support
@JohntheRaptor it was a pointless comment. Simple. Move on. Thanks
Re: All PS5 Games with Power Saver Support
@JayJ by writing exams and essays on things that actually mattered. Not about using a power saving function that is optional.
Re: All PS5 Games with Power Saver Support
@Andy22385 yea. Weak or not, we can always push lower
Re: All PS5 Games with Power Saver Support
@Papasears1982 that’s where the pro comes in 😂
Re: All PS5 Games with Power Saver Support
@Andy22385 actually any game can consume less power. Even if it is just adjusting the level of detail, resolution, render distance, refresh rate, etc, it can be done. Even for Everybodys Golf.
Look at any game that runs on lets say a Steam Deck. Running at between 3-15 watts, if you compare what the game looks like on that vs on PS5, you will see the differences. Even for Everybodys Golf.
For people it is for. Let's say you have kids + energy bills have gone up + it is the end of the month before pay day. It wouldn't hurt to save some pennies and help the engineers at Sony test their low power functionality for the PS6 portable.
Re: All PS5 Games with Power Saver Support
@JayJ if it's such a pointless feature why write an essay about it when you don't have to turn it on lmao
Re: New PS5 Firmware Update Is Available to Download Now
@zekepliskin you must be new because they've been doing PS update articles since PS3 days