@Frmknst there was stuntman so not strictly true but your sentiment about a lack of surprises and new stuff is fair and i echo that.
The thing is, that isn't really sonys fault, we don't want new announcements that are half a decade away for thr sake of having something new and in an industry now where absolutely everything gets leaked beforehand, it's near impossible to keep anything secret.
Without the leaks. We just saw the next previpusly unannounced mainline gow game, that is huge, regardless of personal opinions about the direction they're going with it.
Everything about this game seems great and well done it's just never, ever going to get the player base it requires just to survive nevermind thrive purely because of the genre. This was obvious to all when the game was announced. Insane decision to sink this much resources into it. Signed their own death certificate just a matter of time.
Regardless of your opinions on Laufey, it would have been a monumental moment if it hadn't been leaked previously. There needs to be an industry wide backlash towards these serial leakers who make a living out of spoiling things. They offer nothing and deprive us of memorable moments.
Stuntman Hollywood by a mile for me. Only thing that genuinely got a surprised reaction from me. Great to see that IP come back. Gow might have got that reaction if it hadn't previously been leaked. Schreier and his ilk are a stain on the industry, bringing nothing to the table themselves and ruining surprises for everyone.
Marathon is the only game already out, and even the new season they were showing is out, no need for anybody to go back and watch the trailer when they can literally go play it so should be no surprise those numbers are substantially down on the rest.
My prediction is that Kratos becomes playable midway through GOW: Laufey in a twist similar to GOW 2018 when we got the blades of chaos midway through.
Nothing more than okay for me. But not Sonys fault. I don't want to see a bunch of games that are many years away from release so they're limited to what is just around the corner and we've basically seen it all before meaning there are no surprises.
Stuntman Hollywood was the only surprise and best thing in the show. Gow: Laufey would have been a surprise were it not for scumbag leakers ruining it.
None of them are particularly strong offerings on their own but collectively they're even worse for the fact that they're all essentially multiplayer games. They do a poor job in general of offering variety within the monthly games. I'll play grounded in think, won't touch the others. Disappointing month.
Big fan of accessibility options but trophies are disabled if you use them. That is how to properly cater to people who want a challenge and like hard earned trophies and those who want to avoid getting stuck and want a quick skip.
Strongly dislike healing vials that take an eternity to use though. My biggest gripe with nine sols that I recently platinumed was that healing was pointless in boss battles, took too long to do and if you got hit, you're probably getting combo'd and are dead anyway. Essentially turned the boss fights into no hit runs. Healing in that should just be instant, the description here makes it sound like a similar issue.
@Stocksy it's by all accounts a fully complete title, there is no reason to think we are entitled to anything else for free. If you want proper, meaty dlc, it'll cost.
That isn't even what I want, it's very rare that I bother with any dlc, I typically play things, finish them then move on and never go back so I would prefer they simply moved on to a sequel but I appreciate that might not be for everybody, dlc can come faster and cheaper.
Literally the first time I've ever heard of it. Another example of a huge side of gaming I'm completely oblivious to even as somebody who considers themselves fairly switched on.
Is there a story/purpose to it or is it purely just "here's something technically impressive and pretty, you do the rest" kind of game?
Solid start i'd say. With it being a single player game, there's always more potential for better lifetime sales and a decent word of mouth boost. No idea what the targets will be but I suspect it will do well so long as they're realistic.
Great that they're supporting it but feels like a game/franchise where you just want to get straight on to the next one, either a direct sequel or big paid dlc and waste as little time with anything else.
Just move on and make the sequel. This is a game that should have a quick turn around from game to game. The dlc is great but if it sets the next game back 6 months. I'd sooner they simply moved on.
The surprise here is that they're only at iteration 4. Reached a stage where they're all indistinguishable to me anyway. Haven't touched COD with any significant playtime since the ps3 days and not at all on ps5 and have no interest in changing that.
Nice list of games. I'm sure they'll be of use to someone and hopefully some nice loght shined on games that might have gone under the radar. I've never bothered with a demo or trial though.
This has just reminded me that they do usually give extra stuff away for extra/premium members during the days of play, hopefully that's still to come and announced during the showcase and this isn't it.
Not saying this won't be great or is undeserving of the scores in any way but there is without doubt a heavy bias towards indie titles scoring exceptionally high in reviews that triple A titles simply never see regardless of how good they are and that trend does in turn devalue the scores somewhat.
Not sure we will ever find out some of this information but it will be very Interesting to see how this does in both numbers and ROI and how happy they are with those figures. Always good to see new approaches and releasing fully fleshed out dlc for a game well over a decade old is a new approach. Hope it does what they need it to do purely for the fact that they've taken a new, risky approach.
An incentive for the new subs they're looking to attract during days of play sale presumably? Can't knock it, just one of those things where I'm sure it's perfect for a handful of people that benefit from it but completely useless for the rest.
Thanks for the online multiplayer ps+ game we get to keep for as long as our subscription remains active that now doesn't exist. Joins the dozens of others.
First thought is "yeah that sounds brilliant" but upon closer thought, what is the Lego bit actually adding to it? Feels like more of a dlc add-on to cities skylines than a standalone game. Very interested though.
It is taking a dump on loyalty however it's nothing unique to Sony. It's a common widespread consumer tactic across absolutely everything in life. Amy kind of subscription service, TV, internet etc you'll find the exact same new customers only offers to get you in.
Don't want to play with randomers, can't play solo and wouldn't be able to get a party together often enough to play darktide so that's an instant skip. No interest in the cartoon brawler. Grounded is supposed to be pretty decent so I may dip into that so long as everything is doable solo.
Not a great month, weakest in a while for me. Why the random change in announcement times? This is usually done Wednesday 4.30pm
Extra is phenomenal value, I get more than enough content to last the entire year without spending any more money on anything else for the price of 1 new release game a year. However, I'm not telling them that. These surveys are just data points to use to justify constant increases. "X% of people think ps+ extra is great value so let's increase the price, increase the revenue and we'll only take a x% dip in satisfaction and minimal cancellations." No thanks. Downplay your satisfaction and hope they don't see opportunity to rinse consumers.
Whatever it is, they need a hit and even then they're not safe. Seems almost inevitable they'll be closed down after this next game unless it's an unprecedented success that demands a sequel.
If they aren't willing to Greenlight Destiny 3 and get rolling on it, they may aswell just close the whole thing down now and cut loses. Buying a studio for its 1 signficant IP and expertise and then not have them working on that 1 IP is disastrous and an ominous sign of a slow, bleak death for Bungie. Marathon isn't going to save them, that simply prolongs the inevitable ever so slightly.
I'll be honest, the trophy support or lack of it, influences my decision to play a game or not. It's not that i outright won't play anything without trophies, simply that it's just one way of narrowing down the abundance of choice we have.
I know this isn't always the case or even neccesarily often so but I look at it as this, if they aren't adding trophies, I treated it as unfinished and it suggests a lack of care and quality for the product as there really is no reason not to have them other than a minimal amount of time and cost implementing it.
Don't think it really matters. The crossover is miniscule. Pc gamers that care, most likely have a Playstation too, if they don't they're most improbably unlikely to consider it, can't see many console players making any purchasing decisions based on whether there are pc ports so it really just boils down to the sales numbers which are seemingly not high enough for it to be worthwhile.
I'd love a sequel to precursor legacy in the same manor although it feels like astrobot has taken up that mantle now as somys collectathon mascot game, but Jak 2 and 3 weren't the direction I wanted. Still enjoyed them but wouldn't be excited by a new game in that mould. Give me a new resistance.
Sounds like i was bang on with my prediction of the combat being nothing but a simple button mash with flashy responses. Was never, ever going to be genuine arkham combat in a game that has to be accessible to kids.
Depressingly predictable. Hopefully they can add a Seperate list for single player stuff, otherwise it'll just be the same list of garbage every week. Needs filters if it's to be of any real use or interest.
Reminds me of a somehow worse version of a Netflix top 10 list where it's filled with reality tv garbage and kids shows.
It's a free mode that really should be a paid add on. Absolutely nothing to moan about, be grateful for the freebee. You also don't want sucker punch wasting time supporting that mode for however long and delaying working on whatever is next. Only the most braindead of the terminally thick could ever find anything to be angry about here.
A simple Meh sums it up perfectly. It's not a bad month, it's an acceptable, run of the mill month without anything genuinely exciting.
Rdr2 will no doubt be super popular but I am developing a genuine hatred now for the constant re-addition of Rockstar games between this and gta5 for 3-4 months. Can always tell where the budget for the month went when they're put back on, and they're just not what I have the service for. I'm probably the outlier in that though.
Antiquated in your opinion, big distinction. I don't feel like it's antiquated to insist on only offering full releases. It's a praiseworthy stance in my view. It's bad enough when the full release is a buggy unfinished mess without us getting stuff that isn't even remotely complete.
I'm perfectly fine waiting for a full release of anything, I wouldn't bother touching anything early access even if it was allowed on console.
Repeatedly said in the build up to launch that I was fearful their desire to make it more accessible and tone down the difficulty would backfire and I think for a lot of people, that has proven to be the case. Housemarque is built on making challenging games, that has to be at the core of every housemarque game. I know there are modifiers, but that's just not the same thing as the base game, how housemarque intend for the majority of it's players to play the game being challenging.
Just hope they're allowed to go back to making whatever is next as difficult as they want, if they want to and Sony aren't forcing accessibility requirements onto them.
Why? A remake isn't neccesary, just don't a sequel to it, or is it the fact that would involve some creativity that's the stumbling block.use the template to make new things not shine up something that already exists. Stinks of a lack of ability to choose a remake of something that doesn't need it over a new iteration.
Comments 623
Re: 'One of the Best Showcases I've Seen': 70% of PS5 Fans Loved State of Play
@Frmknst there was stuntman so not strictly true but your sentiment about a lack of surprises and new stuff is fair and i echo that.
The thing is, that isn't really sonys fault, we don't want new announcements that are half a decade away for thr sake of having something new and in an industry now where absolutely everything gets leaked beforehand, it's near impossible to keep anything secret.
Without the leaks. We just saw the next previpusly unannounced mainline gow game, that is huge, regardless of personal opinions about the direction they're going with it.
Re: Hands On: Marathon's New Season Is Impressive, But Probably Not Enough
Everything about this game seems great and well done it's just never, ever going to get the player base it requires just to survive nevermind thrive purely because of the genre. This was obvious to all when the game was announced. Insane decision to sink this much resources into it. Signed their own death certificate just a matter of time.
Re: Reaction: Leaks Robbed State of Play of Its Biggest Surprise, But Show Still Spotlighted Many PS5 Games I'll Buy
Regardless of your opinions on Laufey, it would have been a monumental moment if it hadn't been leaked previously. There needs to be an industry wide backlash towards these serial leakers who make a living out of spoiling things. They offer nothing and deprive us of memorable moments.
Re: Poll: What Was the Best PS5 Game at State of Play?
Stuntman Hollywood by a mile for me. Only thing that genuinely got a surprised reaction from me. Great to see that IP come back. Gow might have got that reaction if it hadn't previously been leaked. Schreier and his ilk are a stain on the industry, bringing nothing to the table themselves and ruining surprises for everyone.
Re: 'That Looks Like Sh*t': God of War Creator Predictably Tears New PS5 Game to Shreds
The man who created something huge doesn't like the big directional change others have taken with his creation. What's the issue?
So many comments dumping on him because he doesn't like it, he is perfectly entitled to feel as he does without no marks berating him for doing so.
Re: When Is Summer Game Fest 2026?
One last thing, highguard relaunch.
Re: The Most Viewed Trailers from PS5's Latest State of Play
Marathon is the only game already out, and even the new season they were showing is out, no need for anybody to go back and watch the trailer when they can literally go play it so should be no surprise those numbers are substantially down on the rest.
Re: God of War Laufey Is the Next Main Entry in the Saga, 'Coming Soon' to PS5
My prediction is that Kratos becomes playable midway through GOW: Laufey in a twist similar to GOW 2018 when we got the blades of chaos midway through.
Re: These 3 Classic PS2 Games Are Coming to PS5 via PS Plus Premium Soon
Psi-ops is an absolute banger, delighted to see that added. Just hope they give it the full treatment and add trophies.
Re: Poll: How Would You Rate State of Play for June 2026?
Nothing more than okay for me. But not Sonys fault. I don't want to see a bunch of games that are many years away from release so they're limited to what is just around the corner and we've basically seen it all before meaning there are no surprises.
Stuntman Hollywood was the only surprise and best thing in the show. Gow: Laufey would have been a surprise were it not for scumbag leakers ruining it.
Re: PS Plus Extra Confirms Classic RPG Property for the First Time Ever on Consoles
Servers closed within 24 months.
Re: Poll: Are You Happy with Your PS Plus Essential Games for June 2026?
None of them are particularly strong offerings on their own but collectively they're even worse for the fact that they're all essentially multiplayer games. They do a poor job in general of offering variety within the monthly games. I'll play grounded in think, won't touch the others. Disappointing month.
Re: Mina the Hollower (PS5) - Masterpiece for Many, But Not for Me
Big fan of accessibility options but trophies are disabled if you use them. That is how to properly cater to people who want a challenge and like hard earned trophies and those who want to avoid getting stuck and want a quick skip.
Strongly dislike healing vials that take an eternity to use though. My biggest gripe with nine sols that I recently platinumed was that healing was pointless in boss battles, took too long to do and if you got hit, you're probably getting combo'd and are dead anyway. Essentially turned the boss fights into no hit runs. Healing in that should just be instant, the description here makes it sound like a similar issue.
Re: 'Launching the Game Is Just the Beginning': Don't Trade in 007 First Light for PS5
@Stocksy it's by all accounts a fully complete title, there is no reason to think we are entitled to anything else for free. If you want proper, meaty dlc, it'll cost.
That isn't even what I want, it's very rare that I bother with any dlc, I typically play things, finish them then move on and never go back so I would prefer they simply moved on to a sequel but I appreciate that might not be for everybody, dlc can come faster and cheaper.
Re: PS5 Is Finally Getting One of PC's Biggest Cult Racing Games
Literally the first time I've ever heard of it. Another example of a huge side of gaming I'm completely oblivious to even as somebody who considers themselves fairly switched on.
Is there a story/purpose to it or is it purely just "here's something technically impressive and pretty, you do the rest" kind of game?
Re: 007 First Light Debuts to 1.5 Million Sales in Just 24 Hours
Solid start i'd say. With it being a single player game, there's always more potential for better lifetime sales and a decent word of mouth boost. No idea what the targets will be but I suspect it will do well so long as they're realistic.
Re: 'Launching the Game Is Just the Beginning': Don't Trade in 007 First Light for PS5
Great that they're supporting it but feels like a game/franchise where you just want to get straight on to the next one, either a direct sequel or big paid dlc and waste as little time with anything else.
Re: Sorry, Astro Bot's New PS5 Update Doesn't Have Anything to Do with State of Play
Just move on and make the sequel. This is a game that should have a quick turn around from game to game. The dlc is great but if it sets the next game back 6 months. I'd sooner they simply moved on.
Re: Leaks Suggest This Year's Call of Duty Is Modern Warfare 4
The surprise here is that they're only at iteration 4. Reached a stage where they're all indistinguishable to me anyway. Haven't touched COD with any significant playtime since the ps3 days and not at all on ps5 and have no interest in changing that.
Re: PS Plus Premium Users Get 40+ New PS5 Demo Trials from Today
Nice list of games. I'm sure they'll be of use to someone and hopefully some nice loght shined on games that might have gone under the radar. I've never bothered with a demo or trial though.
This has just reminded me that they do usually give extra stuff away for extra/premium members during the days of play, hopefully that's still to come and announced during the showcase and this isn't it.
Re: Round Up: Mina the Hollower Earns Critical Acclaim, Best-Rated Game of 2026 in First Reviews
Not saying this won't be great or is undeserving of the scores in any way but there is without doubt a heavy bias towards indie titles scoring exceptionally high in reviews that triple A titles simply never see regardless of how good they are and that trend does in turn devalue the scores somewhat.
Re: Third Witcher 3 DLC Is Real! Songs of the Past Comes to PS5 in 2027
Not sure we will ever find out some of this information but it will be very Interesting to see how this does in both numbers and ROI and how happy they are with those figures. Always good to see new approaches and releasing fully fleshed out dlc for a game well over a decade old is a new approach. Hope it does what they need it to do purely for the fact that they've taken a new, risky approach.
Re: PS Plus Is Doing Something I've Never Seen Before with June's Games
An incentive for the new subs they're looking to attract during days of play sale presumably? Can't knock it, just one of those things where I'm sure it's perfect for a handful of people that benefit from it but completely useless for the rest.
Re: Capcom Is Sitting on a Goldmine of PS5 Announcements - But When Are They Coming?
Not seeing the alleged goldmine here. Onimusha is somewhat interesting given it's the revival of an all but dead franchise.
Re: PS5's Destruction AllStars Delisted, Servers Officially Disabled Without Notice
Thanks for the online multiplayer ps+ game we get to keep for as long as our subscription remains active that now doesn't exist. Joins the dozens of others.
Re: Unannounced City Builder LEGO Skylines Could Be Something Special
First thought is "yeah that sounds brilliant" but upon closer thought, what is the Lego bit actually adding to it? Feels like more of a dlc add-on to cities skylines than a standalone game. Very interested though.
Re: Current PS Plus Subscribers Screwed Again by Days of Play Discounts
It is taking a dump on loyalty however it's nothing unique to Sony. It's a common widespread consumer tactic across absolutely everything in life. Amy kind of subscription service, TV, internet etc you'll find the exact same new customers only offers to get you in.
Re: PS Plus Essential, Extra Games for June 2026 Announced
Don't want to play with randomers, can't play solo and wouldn't be able to get a party together often enough to play darktide so that's an instant skip. No interest in the cartoon brawler. Grounded is supposed to be pretty decent so I may dip into that so long as everything is doable solo.
Not a great month, weakest in a while for me. Why the random change in announcement times? This is usually done Wednesday 4.30pm
Re: Now It's Raised the Price, PlayStation Wants Your Thoughts on PS Plus
Extra is phenomenal value, I get more than enough content to last the entire year without spending any more money on anything else for the price of 1 new release game a year. However, I'm not telling them that. These surveys are just data points to use to justify constant increases. "X% of people think ps+ extra is great value so let's increase the price, increase the revenue and we'll only take a x% dip in satisfaction and minimal cancellations." No thanks. Downplay your satisfaction and hope they don't see opportunity to rinse consumers.
If
Re: LittleBigPlanet Dev's Next PS5 Game Could Have Open World Aspects
Whatever it is, they need a hit and even then they're not safe. Seems almost inevitable they'll be closed down after this next game unless it's an unprecedented success that demands a sequel.
Re: This Viral App Turns Your PlayStation History into a Scrollable Timeline
Not supported on mobile. Crazy stuff.
Edit. It works on mobile if you use something other than chrome. Worked fine on brave.
Re: Bungie Is Not Making Destiny 3, Dev to Be Rocked by 'Significant' Layoffs
If they aren't willing to Greenlight Destiny 3 and get rolling on it, they may aswell just close the whole thing down now and cut loses. Buying a studio for its 1 signficant IP and expertise and then not have them working on that 1 IP is disastrous and an ominous sign of a slow, bleak death for Bungie. Marathon isn't going to save them, that simply prolongs the inevitable ever so slightly.
Re: State of Play Confirmed for 2nd June, 60+ Minutes of Wolverine and PS5 Games
Very early announcement. Wonder why.
Re: 'PS5 Is for the Payers': Just 18% Think PS Plus Essential Is Good Value for Money in 2026
Removed
Re: No PS5, PS4 Trophies for Time Crisis as Bandai Namco Continues Its Classics Losing Streak
I'll be honest, the trophy support or lack of it, influences my decision to play a game or not. It's not that i outright won't play anything without trophies, simply that it's just one way of narrowing down the abundance of choice we have.
I know this isn't always the case or even neccesarily often so but I look at it as this, if they aren't adding trophies, I treated it as unfinished and it suggests a lack of care and quality for the product as there really is no reason not to have them other than a minimal amount of time and cost implementing it.
Re: Sony Reportedly Confirms Shift Back to PS5 Single Player Exclusive Games
Don't think it really matters. The crossover is miniscule. Pc gamers that care, most likely have a Playstation too, if they don't they're most improbably unlikely to consider it, can't see many console players making any purchasing decisions based on whether there are pc ports so it really just boils down to the sales numbers which are seemingly not high enough for it to be worthwhile.
Re: PS Plus Price Increase Announced by Sony for New Members
@MrPeanutbutterz same here. I basically don't use premium, but it would actually cost me money to downgrade.
Re: PS5 Fans Vote Jak & Daxter As Their Most Wanted PlayStation Revival
I'd love a sequel to precursor legacy in the same manor although it feels like astrobot has taken up that mantle now as somys collectathon mascot game, but Jak 2 and 3 weren't the direction I wanted. Still enjoyed them but wouldn't be excited by a new game in that mould. Give me a new resistance.
Re: LEGO Batman: Legacy of the Dark Knight (PS5) - Brick Gaming at Its Joyful Best
Sounds like i was bang on with my prediction of the combat being nothing but a simple button mash with flashy responses. Was never, ever going to be genuine arkham combat in a game that has to be accessible to kids.
Re: PS5's New Weekly Player Tracker Has Revealed Some Brutal Truths for Fans
Depressingly predictable. Hopefully they can add a Seperate list for single player stuff, otherwise it'll just be the same list of garbage every week. Needs filters if it's to be of any real use or interest.
Reminds me of a somehow worse version of a Netflix top 10 list where it's filled with reality tv garbage and kids shows.
Re: 'Looks Like We Got Sucker Punched': Ghost of Yotei Fans Gutted Support Has Ended for Free Co-Op Mode
It's a free mode that really should be a paid add on. Absolutely nothing to moan about, be grateful for the freebee. You also don't want sucker punch wasting time supporting that mode for however long and delaying working on whatever is next. Only the most braindead of the terminally thick could ever find anything to be angry about here.
Re: Poll: Would You Buy an inFAMOUS Collection for PS5?
Enjoyed infamous a lot, would love to see it return but I want a new game, zero interest in a re-release of an existing one.
Re: Poll: Are You Happy with Your PS Plus Extra, Premium Games for May 2026?
A simple Meh sums it up perfectly. It's not a bad month, it's an acceptable, run of the mill month without anything genuinely exciting.
Rdr2 will no doubt be super popular but I am developing a genuine hatred now for the constant re-addition of Rockstar games between this and gta5 for 3-4 months. Can always tell where the budget for the month went when they're put back on, and they're just not what I have the service for. I'm probably the outlier in that though.
Re: Subnautica 2 Is the Biggest Game Around Right Now, But When Is It Coming to PS5?
Antiquated in your opinion, big distinction. I don't feel like it's antiquated to insist on only offering full releases. It's a praiseworthy stance in my view. It's bad enough when the full release is a buggy unfinished mess without us getting stuff that isn't even remotely complete.
I'm perfectly fine waiting for a full release of anything, I wouldn't bother touching anything early access even if it was allowed on console.
Re: 8 PS Plus Extra, Premium Games for May 2026 Announced
@LifeGirl you can say the same about literally any Ubisoft game. They all come to ps+ via ubisoft+
Re: 8 PS Plus Extra, Premium Games for May 2026 Announced
Sick to the back teeth of them repeatedly re-adding gta/rdr for 3-4 months every year.
Outlaws was inevitable and a decent addition (Fully expect that ubisoft Avatar game to come in the next couple of months, if not June)
The rest feels like a lot of souls-like mediocrity at best, willing to give a few of them a go but not exactly setting the world alight.
Enough there to be content with this months offering but not a strong showing.
Re: This New PS5 Controller May Solve DualSense's Stick Drift Issues, But It Comes with a $220 Cost
The madcatz edge without the cost savings. You're alright.
Re: Poll: Is Saros Better Than Returnal?
Repeatedly said in the build up to launch that I was fearful their desire to make it more accessible and tone down the difficulty would backfire and I think for a lot of people, that has proven to be the case. Housemarque is built on making challenging games, that has to be at the core of every housemarque game. I know there are modifiers, but that's just not the same thing as the base game, how housemarque intend for the majority of it's players to play the game being challenging.
Just hope they're allowed to go back to making whatever is next as difficult as they want, if they want to and Sony aren't forcing accessibility requirements onto them.
Re: Lies of P Dev Is Making Headlines, But Not for Reasons Anyone Wants to Hear
"We want games to be cheaper and quicker to make" "but we don't want you to use any new technology that would enable that to be possible"
Let them use AI if they want, it is their choice, if it's dogshit and AI is part of the reason why, then they'll pay the consequences.
Re: Rumour: Rayman Legends Remake May Be Announced This Summer
Why? A remake isn't neccesary, just don't a sequel to it, or is it the fact that would involve some creativity that's the stumbling block.use the template to make new things not shine up something that already exists. Stinks of a lack of ability to choose a remake of something that doesn't need it over a new iteration.