Spiders

@spcspc That is the comment of the decade.

@FatalBubbles I guess that’s how it is haha. That’s what’s always been funny to me about Souls games and the “git gud” memes - I think I suck at games in general, but I think in Souls games it’s made a lot more clear what the player is doing wrong that I can push through. Like I said I quit Yakuza Zero I was so frustrated getting knocked down and stun locked to death by random dudes in the street, but I never got frustrated playing Sekiro until the last boss, and then started over immediately and got there in half the time.

@Stragen8 Open in the sense that you can go to any of the five zones after you pass Boletaria 1-1. This sounds like Demon’s Souls’ progression projected onto Dark Souls’ interconnected environment.

@ViolentEntity Honestly, I got more stressed and frustrated during some combat encounters in Control, Final Fantasy 7-R, Yakuza and God of War (as examples) than anything in any Souls games. Some of those encounters I feel like I’m just mashing and hoping for good RNG on the enemy spawns or behavior or whatever BS and never really get good at the systems.

Souls can feel like your losing more but it’s a parlor trick, while most games, like the ones I mentioned, you literally lose all the progress you made since your last save as if the time you just spent never happened.

The singing / music was my favorite part! Very rough trailer and notable lack of sound effects, but I’ll reserve judgement. Everything Square showed was a different shade of soul-less from the “we have Marvel universe at home” Guardians of the Galaxy to the odd looking Souls game, but ultimately these games are meant to be played and not watched in trailers, so I give the benefit of the doubt to bad editors and await hands-on impressions.

@BloodNinja Like that first item pop-up? I don’t even remember that, but if anything that reminds me of how Ninja Gaiden and Bayonetta do that so I might not have found it so offensive.

Totally valid gripe though. Ocarina of Time’s equipment pop-ups and item explanations tarnished the game for me.

@Uromastryx The clip in the cathedral looked you rolled in with straight up squad, not the summoned blue phantoms from earlier. We’ll see!

@BloodNinja I thought the Sekiro tutorial area was a huge improvement over the previous games. It was woven into the story and sets up some great moments for the end of the game. I don’t remember any pop-ups past that except when you get a certain charm (that was in unnecessary), and one where they show you how to deal with lightning.

I think what @kyleforrester87 is referring to is the quest logs, objective markers, maps, mini maps, compasses and icons that most open-world games rely on to ensure players can GPS their way through the game and never get lost. That stuff is antithetical to From’s design philosophy so I doubt it. Can’t wait for the ‘GIT GUD at orienteering’ memes haha

@xRetrox I’ve notice it too and I wonder why. Comments are filled with people so obviously not interested in the games, and the tone just gets nasty. Here and NL used to be a refuge from GAF/resetera, but it’s getting as bad and for certain kinds of games and articles much worse.

I wonder if there’s an underlying cause like the PS5 shortages or things like the Cyberpunk debacle, Microsoft gobbling up studios and gamepass deals, or something like that.

Or maybe after this last year, people are just more comfortable being their worst selves on the internet.

@KundaliniRising333 It very funny that the contrast here is Demon’s Souls is lauded as the next-gen game and Elden Ring is literally the 6th generation of Demon’s Souls.

I think we’re all being “held back” by this graphical specs = innovation mentality. Elden Ring is a PS4/XB1 game and PS5 will probably be the best place to play it. It’s not being held back, it’s being accelerated by next-gen hardware. This cross-gen meme is embarrassing.

@HunkyJunk I have a lot more patience for it than you, but yeah I agree. Sekiro felt like a burden was lifted from the formula.

I have a feeling the stats and weapons will be very much a part of the game, but combat so far looks like an evolution of all their games. It looks like there’s a jump button like Sekiro, some crazy dashing, and a horse-ox mount you can summon that has some crazy maneuverability as well. They also didn’t show any shields, although the leaked footage did that might have either changed since then or they wanted to highlight the more modern combat styles.

I’m hoping there’s something for you!

@bbauer36 Well, I’m glad they’re making a game and not a tech demo.

@HunkyJunk It depends why you hate one series and love the other two games... Bloodborne and Sekiro are my favorite From Software games, but the caveat is I love the Souls games as well (save DS2).
As far as the aesthetic goes, this game is obviously going to be more like the Souls series - enough that people are claiming it is "just Dark Souls with horses", but this is exactly the kind of stuff people said about Sekiro and BB. We have no idea how the systems or structure of the game is, what the primary loop is like, what new mechanics are in or what has been dropped.

I think the combat is going to be more in line with BB/Sekiro. If nothing else, ending the Dark Souls series meant they can drop as much baggage as they like.

Personally all the From games have the elements I love - exploration, mystery, discovery, consequences, and astonishment - but Bloodborne, and more so Sekiro, drop a lot of the RPG elements I'm not really into.

Why do you prefer one to the other?

@Oz_Momotaro I don't really think of the Souls games as RPGs but rather as adventure games, but for people who do it's the ability to create a character and build their stats for different weapons and playstyles. There are also quests and side-quest chains, but they are not explicit or given a checklist.

There is plenty of player agency, and meaningful choice in Souls games but again, it's not explicit. It's not done in dialogue trees or binary morality or anything like that. For example, you can anger and even kill every NPC in the game which can affect how other NPCs treat you, what quests are and are not available to you, and even the environment in some cases. The game will let you fail and miss just about every event in the game, which I think is a very true, if brutal form of player agency. Demon's Souls had a World Tendency system which alters the map and enemies based on your choices in the area. Dark Souls has covenants which a player can enter that have different motivations that are tasked to hunt real players or can be summoned to defend an area.

There is no character development or anything like that. The story in Souls is really always about the world, not the player, with the exception of Sekiro.

Like I said, I don't think of them as RPGs, but as an adventure game. My first experience with Demon's Souls reminded me of the first Zelda game - Dark Souls moreso. Bloodborne feels almost like a 3D version of Castlevania: SotN, and Sekiro drops most of the RPG conventions for a more "pure" adventure aesthetic.

In short, as far as RPG qualities in Souls games, I think you get out what you put in. There's plenty of elements that can scratch those itches even if they are not made explicit, and probably more so than a lot of games billed as RPGs.

I don't know why you're asking me - I don't think I ever said they were RPGs - but I'm always happy to talk about some of my favorite games:)

@playstation1995 Star and Buckwild!?!? I haven’t heard those names in 20 years... listen to them all time back in the day... WORD UP SON!!!

@Col_McCafferty I think that was the idea from the beginning- GRRM is writing the lore and world-building, but the story will still be relayed in the esoteric Miyazaki style... what I’m assuming anyway.

@Icey664 We get it, you don’t like Elden Ring. Any game can look like “just another...” if you don’t care for the material.

Evil Dead looks like “just another generic co-op horror game...”. Sable looks like “just another generic Journey clone...” New Battlefield “just another futuristic shooter...“. New Horizon “just another generic open world adventure game...”

If you can’t see all the ways Elden Ring is not “just another...” anything, it’s not your kind of game - that’s fine. You sure love being in it’s comment sections though.

@Col_McCafferty From Software games are the scaffolding of my GOAT list, so I expect I’ll enjoy it, and The Witcher 3 was a revelation for me - I never cared for Western RPGs before I played it and now I’m opened up to the genre.
I’m not exactly sure where the vin diagram is for Witcher/Souls, but for me it’s the rewarding exploration.

Elden Ring might literally be my Game Of The Year 2022- as in the only - after I pay for a PS5 and a new TV haha.

@Col_McCafferty Depends what you want from the game. We were only just steeped in aesthetics and call-outs to Souls fans.

If you want a deep open world RPG with consequence, we still don’t know anything about the structure and systems of the game- you might yet get it. If you mean a quest list with point A to point B objectives, I doubt it.

So much weirdness! I was afraid the GRRM collaboration was going to bring the game in line with Western fantasy aesthetics. Glad that wasn’t the case and the game is a full-on Berserk-esque fever dream.

Nobody can capture that sense of sublime horror, mystery, and wonder like From Software. I hope the final game can do that magic of playing Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls for the first time again.

@nessisonett Remains to be seen... there’s obviously a lot of Souls in this game, but we still have no idea how any of the systems work, how story and lore is presented, how the open world works, and what deviations to the “formula” ala Sekiro and Bloodborne are being made to distinguish this title. Notice there were no shields in the trailer. Might be aesthetic, but might be game design.

@Icey664 Generic? That’s hilarious. This is among the most unique looking open world games on the merits of the trailer alone.

@Agramonte Totally agree about the double standards, but I think there are a lot more examples of shooters (generally) that have free ongoing content updates at the original price like Splatoon 1/2, Overwatch, Battlefront II (for a few years), and I’m sure there’s more. No fighter has really done that I can think of.

Best comment I read on the subject from I don’t remember where: this is something to get angry about ten years ago. Can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube, and if the value isn’t there for you, just don’t buy it and cry in your pie, not the internet.

Since when!? DLC has been part of the business model for a long time. Yes, I remember when.... I remember expansion packs on floppy discs and horse armor and DLC on disc controversies. Nowadays, if you think DLC isn't being planned and worked on alongside the base game your being naïve.

I think there's places to agree with you on a case by case basis, but you're attributing intentions you have no evidence for, just what you think is a complete game. Smash Ultimate is a "complete game" at 70+ characters, but it "held back" Piranha Plant and announced DLC from the jump. Why is that not a problem for you?

I think it's fair to judge the value however you want, but it's not fair to say devs are intentionally cutting content when they've been clear about the starting roster and available modes for over a year.

@nomither6 OK, where’s the evidence for missing content? Without that, it seems like “missing” is your opinion. Mine is “extra” based on communication the developers have given over the last year over what would be included in the price tag.

@GKO900 I’d agree with you in principle, but I don’t see it being obvious there is cut content. The final roster was announced a long time ago, and reviews so far are calling the game fully-featured and loaded with quality content.
If you mean DLC being ready, bear in mind this game has been delayed multiple times, so it makes sense the DLC development would catch up to the main branch.

@GKO900 Who likes getting less content? It’s just the reality of gaming today that most games are coming with a little I.O.U. in the box for what you get.

The difference with fighting games and other competitive games aren’t about “content”, they are about the experience. If you want to wait 4 years to play Guilty Gear Strive or any other fighter be my guest. I and many will have logged 1,000+ hours by that point - value is in the eye of the beholder here. Plus you’ll miss out on the discovery phase, which is the most fun period of a fighting game.

@nomither6 What’s the difference between “missing” content and “extra” content here? By your reasoning, every game with DLC is sticking it to consumers by releasing unfinished products. That’s some 2006 logic that doesn’t map on to the reality of game development and publishing today.

Super Shoot Bros: Uni Edition. Everyone is here!!! Sam Fisher! Military Guy! Paramilitary Guy!

@Flaming_Kaiser @NinjaWaddleDee OK boomers! Joking aside, the alternative model to this is CE, Super, Turbo, Ultra, Ultimate, etc. editions selling at premium prices annually. The drip feed DLC model works really well for fighters, and nearly EVERY MULTIPLAYER GAME is doing this.

You could argue it could be F2P and you buy what you want like KI or FEXL:AD, but they have their problems too.

I guess it’s perspective - I’m hype about a new characters being only a months away, not disappointed a primarily multliplayer online game is not “content complete” on disc. If your a casual fan, wait a few years for the complete edition I guess.

@ralphdibny Can’t knock your preference, but the Switch eShop is objectively a faster loading storefront than the PSN store - I’m literally doing both right now haha. The loading gap is closer on than it used to be since Switch added the hover over previews, but game pages are still way faster on Switch.

We both agree PS3 store can kick rocks.

@Subsided Mario x Rabbids is a pretty good blueprint for how to “dumb-down” the XCOM formula, so I think it’s possible to make an accessible game with some depth.

@ralphdibny Switch store is so much faster than PS4, plus it has wishlists. You cray! The PS Store app is pretty quick though.

@Octane It’s running at 720p if that’s what you mean, but it still beats many PS4 titles in terms of detail, scope, variety, and insanely layered vertical exploration - and that all before you get a mech and FLY. A lazy 1080p port and this game would smoke many PS4 open worlds - just look at a CEMU emulation running. Please let’s not pretend PS4 is holding back something like flying mounts. It’s obviously a design choice and not a technical limitation of last-gen hardware.

@Texan_Survivor That should be true, but remains to be seen. There’s examples of games with better AI in the PS2 era than anything going forward - it comes down to what publishers want to do, and maybe I’m just being cynical but so don’t believe any AAA game is going to prioritize anything over graphics, no matter what opportunities they have. So sure they could have, but doesn’t mean they would. Single-strand moss seems to be the priority.

@Octane Xenoblade Chonicles X does this in a highly detailed open world (larger and more varied than Horizon’s) and on a WiiU. You’re probably right that these decisions have to be made very early on in development to do well.

@Texan_Survivor All that stuff is likely true, but it begs the question - how? How was Horizon 2 supposed to be better than it is now? And please don’t say flying mounts.

@BrainHacker The loading in Ratchet & Clank could definitely lead to some innovate gameplay, but in that title it looks very scripted and not really impacting gameplay.

I imagine a 3D The Messenger or the Titanfall 2 stage (you know the one) kind of something really utilizing it, or having the jump-cuts in Virginia being possible in a high-fidelity interactive environment.

Truly having entire game worlds as create/destructible as physics objects are today should lead to something that could be as significant a jump as disc streaming technologies allowing open-worlds over zones that might only be achievable with Sony’s SSD tech currently, but it’s going to take a lot more imagination than AAA tends to have.

The new PS5 Master Race, being held back by console and PC peasants.

Flying mounts? Really? Play Xenoblade Chronicles X on WiiU if you want to see what is and isn’t possible in an open-world game on older technology.

Innovation happens in design and is enabled by technology, not the other way around. As we recently learned, Portal’s innovation was technically achievable on an N64.

tl;dr the lowest common denominator is not the technology, but the audience.

@Boldfoxrd (FF7R) It’s not a very good RPG and shouldn’t even be that high on a genre list. It does a lot of things very well - some people think the battle system is the best ever. Fact is it’s a decent game with FF7 characters and locations in it - it’s always going to have an adoring fan base regardless of its many, many, many flaws.

Horizon has no business being on an RPG list, and certainly so high. May as well add God Of War because “levels”. AAA raided the RPG pantry for padding and “numbers go up” progression, but those elements do not an RPG make, just like a jump button doesn’t make Dragon Quest XI a platformer.

Depends on how much the publishers are paying me

Love that artwork, but where is Fat Princess? Shameful!

@MidnightDragonDX I’m willing to try something new, but yeah - very good news.

@Akurusu Horii said “command battle” will still be available for fans. Every time they tried to alter the combat system there’s a riot, so it will definitely be optional.

How many games can make that kind of an impact with a simple logo reveal? It’s very bold for one of - if not the most - conservative series in gaming. DQIII HD-2D was a wonderful surprise as well.

This looks rad. I read an article (posted below) that got me really interested in Chinese RPGs, but I have yet to take the plunge. Hope to see this and more coming to consoles with proper English support.

https://felipepepe.medium.com/before-genshin-impact-a-brief-history-of-chinese-rpgs-bc962fc29908

I don’t think we’ll have that kind of decadent press conference with a GOW orchestra and a TLOUII cabin for a very long time, but a digital event is essentially the same thing for a majority of the fans and I don’t see why Sony would be silent through the peak of the gaming press season unless they really had nothing to show.
Plus, the industry component of E3 needs to be replaced with something - a lot of buying and selling goes on in meetings, and it’s going to be hard to keep the lid on stuff with tons of digital assets flying around anyway- may as well show product on your own terms if you can.

Psyched about the new-ish Virtua Fighter if true. Something I could play for years at best, and at worst an appetizer for Guilty Gear Strive. Squadrons is definitely something I’ll give some hard drive space to check out.
Last month was a dud for me so I’m glad to get the value this go around.

@MFTWrecks No idea if it’s worth it in this game but Splatoon on WiiU proved there is absolutely a place for off-screen feedback. Plus, this is a literally a light so you should be able to point it into your FOV and not have to take your eyes off of anything. You’re right that it’s probably a throwaway feature but I think you’re too harsh on the concept.

Final Fantasy Nioh? Definitely something I never would have thought I wanted until I heard of it.

@MFTWrecks A constant option while in combat. It’s easy to bring the controller into view or glance down if the feedback is worthwhile.

@djlard It feels like that at first - I thought the first level was impossible solo - but once you get the hang of it it’s a (relatively) slow and methodical shooter. Cleared normal solo and most of hard... saving play through for when the expansions go on sale next.

@TheFrenchiestFry It does, and it would be interesting if NRS could manage it. A big reason MvC:I failed was Disney/Marvel’s restrictions on the roster and focus on the MCU, and rumors of just meddling with the project from beginning to end. The “deepest cut“ was Nova.

In a perfect world, NRS will get and be allowed to go ham with the license, and the up the potential for Capcom vs. DC with a bonkers MvC2 style roster.