LogicStrikesAgain

I like Bautista. I’m not quite sure he’s the one for this role, though. But somehow at the same time i also feel like he might do an amazing version of Kratos

He better! #NoBumNoBuy.

Well there you go. For the people that demanded some kind of statement from them, i hope this satisfies you. I never really understood on what kind of statement people were waiting for though, they weren’t gonna backtrack on their decision, so it was never really going to be any better than this

Sony might have a better chance at subsidizing though. If Microsoft is gonna put Steam on Helix, they’ll have a much harder time subsidizing it. But yeah, all in all console prices will be much higher than in the past. I guess inflation has finally caught up

Sony is just trolling at this point 😅

If people want it, companies should provide it

I mean, that’s a nice sentiment. If only people were also that quick to band together to put pressure on things like child labor in most fashion brands supply chains. It’s interesting to see how quick people band together for consumer products compared to things that really affect human lives.

#firstworldproblems

God of War: Laufey releasing soon. The original trilogy remake and a new Kratos game in development. Hell yeah Santa Monica!

@rjejr I do hope it’s shorter than the previous God of War games. I wouldnt mind a 15-20hr linear game, 30+ hours is too much for me personally. But I highly doubt this is anywhere near a 7 hour game. I will caveat that its been nearly impossible to predict anything in the game industry lately so i’m not sure of course, but i can’t see this being a very short game

So hyped for this game, glad to see it coming so soon!

Just awesome!

Anime Marvel is something i didnt know i needed 😍

Wait, Sony is ending physical releases!?

@nightcrawler2000 I was just quoting the article:

While Niikawa acknowledged the sound business logic behind the move, he acknowledged that physical releases often carry sentimental meaning for fans.

That’s fine. Xbox is perfectly in its right to do so in my opinion, as are Sony. Nothing wrong with paying for exclusivity. Much better than buying the studio so others cant do the same anymore. Now, can we finally get rid of the stupid term ‘money hatting’.

These are just business deals which benefit both publisher and studio, and adds some competition between platformholders

So he’s acknowledging the sound business logic but he still wants the company to keep things out of sentimentality?

Its either a good business move or its not. Maybe give them more incentive to keep physical besides being able to bring it to events to have it signed. We cant demand companies to run their business from a sense of nostalgia or sentimentality, if the numbers dont make sense anymore.

If people want change, vote with your wallets.

Edit: Its like the comeback Destiny 2 is having on Steam now. After Bungie announced stopping active development, people are coming back in droves to support the game. The game’s numbers are higher than it has been in years, and active player numbers are even higher than popular games such as Arc Raiders, Battlefield 6 and Overwatch. Now that’s how you get Sony to notice!

I see people here arguing that a products value depends on the person buying it, and that no one should be judged for buying something others think is overpriced.

And i agree. I just hope people keep the same energy when it comes to pricing of the next gen Playstation hardware.

I remember vividly when PS5 Pro was announced, that a lot of people were not able to distinguish between personal value and price

@get2sammyb Talking about Sony’s live service games. Destiny 2 seems to be having a bit of a comeback. According to Steam data they’re having monthly averages of around 65k players, and peaks of up to 167K.

I mean, i dont know how long this will last, but it sure is a big difference from the steady decline and all time lows of 7K players in March and April.

Their numbers havent been this high in years. For reference, those numbers are higher than popular games like Arc Raiders, Battlefield 6 and Overwatch.

I guess the fans are showing the game some love since they heard that Bungie was gonna end active development for the game

What’s crazy is how high Destiny 2 is ranked at #6, and #4 last week in US Steam active weekly players, that’s impressive.

Edit: Just checked it out on Steam and its been doing very good these last two months with an average of around 65K monthly players and peaks of up to 167K.

For reference Arc Raiders has an monthly average of 29K and a peak of 55K

@RoomWithaMoose I actually agree with your whole comment. I bet Sony did actually think this would blow away sooner than it did. Sucks to be them right now lol

@ButteredCrumpet I agree, if people want change, they will have to look at it from both a consumer and business perspective. Complaining about it when a company doesnt see the financial incentive to keep it anymore isn’t really going to move stones. If they have proper incentive they might keep it. I’m afraid companies make decisions mostly based on what financially makes sense, not on the basis of nostalgia or emotional reasoning. Some companies might, but even then the incentive has to outweigh the alternative

@RoomWithaMoose I hear ya, i agree that damage control should probably be done. However I don't know if it would even be possible to convince an angry anti-digital crowd that going all digital is the right decision tbh, it might make the backlash even worse. And maybe there aren’t any concessions willing to be made from Sony. I’m just speculating here of course.

For all we know Sony is trying to come up with a statement that they hope will go down well. But if they’re not going to reassess or concede anything, thats a difficult statement to come up with right now. I hardly think companies care about being seen as cowardice or weak etc.

Are you kidding me? Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora and Rise of the Ronin. These are exactly the type of games i don’t buy, but wait till they come to PS+. Yeah, it’s good month for me

@ShadowRJ that means you want them to reassess their plans, but what if they’re not going to? Would a “sorry, but we’re not reassessing” be better? And would revealing it at later date be much better? Would people then somehow be ok with it? They already gave 1,5 year notice.

But fair enough you brought up some good points as well! It’s not even that i’m against what your doing, I hate to be such a contrarian to you, cause you’ve been very levelheaded this whole discussion, so props to you on making solid arguments for your cause 👍🏼

@ShadowRJ But what do people want them to post about it? There’s not much to say right now, and they’re not going to backtrack. So do people expect like an apology post or something? And would people then somehow be fine if Sony said “sorry we’re taking away physical”. I honestly don’t really understand what people expect them to post on the matter. People should just vote with their wallets. I’m all for people not buying their next gen console or whatever, if that’s their prerogative

Right now the second hand market is good for the consumer, but doesnt really help the industry that much.

Remember, 1 game can be sold multiple times through Gamestop or CEX or passed around to 5 friends without developers getting any compensation for it

I really don’t see the point in people expecting Sony to address anything. They already explained what they are going to do. There’s probably not really much more to say at this moment. I’m sure long before 2028 they will have explained how everything will work in detail

Whats good for the consumer, and whats good for the industry? The industry is burning, studio closures everywhere, component cost through the roof with no end in sight, development cost have skyrocketed, rvery publisher is trying to find ways to cut costs because they’re squeezed.

But at same time the public resists higher prices, layoffs are critized, they wont allow for the use of AI, they hate live service, they demand games to come out faster, they want cheaper games and riot when console prices are raised. So whats left to do then?

Why arent any of the studios and publishers complaining about this? I suspect most support this decision. The second hand market of games is different from movies, because movies show in theaters first and them come to blu ray, so the second hand market starts when they have made some money already. But with games, their “theater release” if you will, is the release of the game, so used copies immediately competes with new sales right from launch. It just doesnt work the same way unfortunayely.

I’m not saying this is the only solution to the problems in the industry, but this might one of them. Developers more than ever need to be compensated for their games, because these are harsh times for video game development.
People are understandably upset, but like Valve who turned its back on physical media two decades ago, people will get over it. And as stated before, being digital-only might be why prices are so cheap on Steam in the first place.

For the people that fear a less competitive PS store. Sony knows it will have to abide to anti monopoly rules and regulations by the time this starts in 2028, so i think it’s likely that they will reintroduce things like third party key sellers back again. They will have to, or else it’ll be monopoly practices, which is illegal and without physical media it makes them an even easier target for lawsuits than today. I’m sure Sony knows this, and everything that needs to change will probably be in place before the time comes

@datamonkey I think you’re right about that. And while i wont pretend that i understand all the financials that goes on in a business, i think that their current revenue margins aren’t necessarily indicative for the future.

Because today they bear fruits of a successful console business model where they managed to sell almost 100M units. The problem is that the landscape has changed so much that their next console might not be able to follow that business model anymore.

Seeing as the Bill Of Materials on the rumoured PS6 is already $1000, that means if they can’t subsidize their hardware, a large majority of the people will already be priced out. So how can they try to subsidize it to a price that might still be attainable for most? Well, its obviously not a popular decision, but things like phasing out physical media so that the industry (not just Sony, but all studios and publishers) might benefit from higher revenue margins is one thing they can do. Again, not necesarily arguing for or against, i’m not making a case for Sony, i’m just adding the perspective as to what i think their thinking might be behind the decision

@TheArt Yes, exactly! And i do think they will have to reintroduce third party key sellers again like they did before, if they dont want to face any more monopoly suits. But i’m sure Sony also knows this and will probably implement whats needed to abide anti monopoly rules and regulation by the time this goes in effect in 2028

@datamonkey

You can build a case for Sony as much as you like but if buyers aren’t happy it’s irrelevant, Sony don’t exist without them. To what extent we don’t know but I guess we’ll find out come January 2028.

Well, Playstation might not exist without these choices as well, so it goes both ways. If Playstation can’t afford to subsidize to atleast a somewhat reasonable price, then we’re all F-ed, and then it doesnt matter whether your’re digital or physical, because the majority simply wont be able to afford console gaming anymore

Honestly, its understandable that a retailers association is going to be against this decision, because they have the interest of the retailers in mind, and its the retailers that really profit from the second hand market. CEX or GameStop can earn multiple sales from the same game, but the developer themselves will receive no royalties whatsoever from those second hand sales.

That’s probably why you dont any see studios and publishers complaining about this. I bet most are probably actually pretty happy with this decision

And i hope you dont mind @TheArt, but i’m also gonna quote your reply on my comment on here, because i think it expands very well on the points i made and brings a good nuance to the discussion:

Studios getting shut down, devs getting laid off, games getting too expensive to make but people want to buy and sell...and expect the industry to survive. Any dev would prefer 5 people buying a game at sale prices rather than 1 person buying at full price and selling or just passing it around to 4 more people. No wonder games keep increasing in price. They say PC has cheaper prices, what if it's that way because it's all digital.

I’m just gonna copy my comment from the other thread on here:

I respect people seeing things from a consumer point of view. But Sony, like any other company, also needs to think about the sustainability of its business long term. The whole landscape is changing, prices of hardware are skyrocketing, long used business models might need to change. Especially for Sony, which isnt a trillion dollar company who can easily afford to make financially unsustainable decisions.

They have to think about future console generations like PS6, that already has a rumoured $1000 BOM. This means that the console business model of selling tens of millions units of subsidized hardware might need to change, since the mass market isnt going to easily be able to buy at these prices.

One way for them to cut costs is offering digital only, because that ensures higher revenue margins from sales. Remember, they don’t see any revenue from the second hand physical market after the initial sale.

People understandablely want them to hang on to physical media, even if there’s little to no profit for them to be made. But people also want them to be able to release a PS6 for under $800. This is just not reasonable. If we want them to keep cost low, they will need to have higer revenue margins to be sustainable long term. We cant have our cake and eat it too.

And i’m sure some here will immediately call me a shill, but i dont care. I respect people fighting for physical media, but there’s a bigger picture to be looked at for a company to be sustainable, which unfortunately does have to include looking at it from the business point of view as well, not just the consumers points of view.

Just to be clear, i’m in no way saying Sony should or should not do this. I’m merely trying to bring a little awareness to the discussion as to what the business side of these decisions sometimes include

@TheArt Honestly, you made even better points. I’m sure most studios and publishers are indeed very happy with this decision for exactly the reasons you mentioned. This industry unfortunately probably cannot afford having a thriving second hand market anymore to be sustainable long term. These are likely all ways for them to at least try and keep console gaming affordable in the long run

I respect people seeing things from a consumer point of view. But Sony, like any other company, also needs to think about the sustainability of its business long term. The whole landscape is changing, prices of hardware are skyrocketing, long used business models might need to change. Especially for Sony, which isnt a trillion dollar company who can easily afford to make financially unsustainable decisions.

They have to think about future console generations like PS6, that already has a rumoured $1000 BOM. This means that the console business model of selling tens of millions units of subsidized hardware might need to change, since the mass market isnt going to easily be able to buy at these prices.

One way for them to cut costs is offering digital only, because that ensures higher revenue margins from sales. Remember, they don’t see any revenue from the second hand physical market after the initial sale.

People understandablely want them to hang on to physical media, even if there’s little to no profit for them to be made. But people also want them to be able to release a PS6 for under $800. This is just not reasonable, prices have exploded. If we want them to keep cost low, they will need to have higer revenue margins to be sustainable long term. We cant have our cake and eat it too.

And i’m sure some here will immediately call me a shill, but i dont care. I respect people fighting for physical media, but there’s a bigger picture to be looked at for a company to be sustainable, which unfortunately does have to include looking at it from the business point of view as well, not just the consumers points of view.

Just to be clear, i’m in no way saying Sony should or should not do this. I’m merely trying to bring a little awareness to the discussion as to what the business side of these decisions sometimes include

I dont think they can be sued for something thats not happening until 2028. By that time Sony will have probably put the necessary steps in place to mitigate all these points and adhere to all rules and laws regarding anti monopoly practices. Like allowing third party key sellers again, like they’ve done up until 2019

@kuu_nousee I get what you’re saying. All i’m saying is we can’t automatically define that group as being hardcore gamers. Sure, i’d also consider someone that buys tens or hundreds games a year a hardcore gamer. But the fact is, many in that group also just buy 1 or 2 physical games a year. So we can’t automatically define the whole group as being Sony’s most loyal and hardcore userbase. These people simply prefer physical, and some might be a hardcore gamer, but definitely not everyone. Heck, there are even some digital only gamers in there that just protest out of principle (which is fine btw)

I disagree with many here saying that people who buy physical are by definition hardcore gamers.

Some people that buy physical are casuals, and plenty of hardcore users buy digital

Damn, hard to imagine which studios will be affected by the upcoming 1600? Especially since some are already reduced to almost nothing after these first cuts

@11001100110zero

@$1000 est. For PS6, you might as well just get a PC. That's the issue now.

If the current console business model stays the same, than the $1000 PS6 would still be a subsidized price, and an unsubsidized PC with similar specs would still be more expensive relative to console. So the trade off would still be the same.

You’re totally right about those two cancelling each other out though, it’s just up to people what they prefer

I love how some people are criticizing Sony’s move to end support for physical media, while simultaneously praising digital PC stores. Do they care about physical media or do they just want better digital stores? 🤔

So some people hate Sony for giving up on physical, and therefore they are switching to Steam which turned its back on physical 2 decades ago?

Personally, as long as Sony can subsidize the cost of their console, i’m not going to pay unsubsidized PC prices for next gen gaming. Looking at you Steam Machine 👀

For me, physical has never really been the reason why i game on console, but i respect that it might be for some

So iD Software is now a studio of 50 people? I guess Doom isn’t one of the games MS is going to focus on, then

@Lavishturtle

Actually destroyed my PS5 instead of giving it away.

lol, you drama queen ✌🏼😜 /jk

If $1000 is too much for people, why would they go to PC? I hope people understand that PC will still be more expensive relative to console.

Personally, i’m not considering switching to PC. The only thing that can make me switch is Sony giving up their exclusives

@LowDefAl Oh, i did not know that. Well, there you go, it was inevitable anyway. They wouldnt get away with not doing that, because that would automatically make their store a monopoly. But this will effectively create the competition for prices to be kept in check

@colt45z I’m not sure to which part of my comment you’re reacting to tbh. But to answer your comment, i believe Sony will reintroduce third party key sellers to keep prices in check. They have to, since they’re already slammed with monopoly lawsuits as it is

@ShadowRJ I respect that. And while i am a bit saturated when it comes to these articles, you should always be able to say your piece. If anyone is getting tired of it, that’s their problem

But this decision has hit its most vocal, enthusiast players the hardest

I’ve been here since the PS1 days. I guess i’m not considered an enthusiast since i’m fully digital now

#NoDiscNoBuy

So next gen, everyone is going Nintendo? 🤔 Until Switch 3 (or whatever they come up with) releases which will likely be digital only as well