@BAMozzy If cost of entry to an ecosystem is the issue, there are many options to circumvent that. You could buy a second hand PS5 for example, and i’ve seen them go for as low as $150.
But that’s not the main issue people are discussing here. People are claiming the PS5 is too expensive. But in reality, the PS5 is the cheapest high end console on the market.
There aren’t any high end consoles that are cheaper than a PS5. It’s $50 cheaper than an Xbox and $50 more than the new Switch 2. I think thats a totally fair price. I think it’s unreasonable for people to expect Sony to make the PS5 cheaper than a Switch, especially since the PS5 has higher end hardware.
And as many have pointed out already, that baseline price point of $300 you mentioned, if you account for inflation, would still be between $500-$600 in todays money. So the pricing doesnt really seem out of line.
Unfortunately, due to inflation, the affordability of these consoles might start pricing people out. I’m not saying i agree with it, but that’s what he current situation is
Before the Switch 2 released the PS5 Digital was also at $450, but i can definitely understand that they couldn’t keep those prices, especially since the PS5 is a more powerful machine.
Even after the recent increase, i think Sony has priced their console competitively and fair compared to their competition in the console space. How would you price the PS5?
Actually, for everyone here saying the PS5 is priced too expensive. What do you think they should price it at? And should they totally ignore competitors pricing when determining that?
@Balosi You’re right! So they will really have to think carefully about how they’re going to approach next gen.
Next gen consoles will either be very expensive, and thereby alienating a large part of the userbase. Or they could go back to a loss leading strategy by heavily subsidizing the cost of their console, and having to rely on software sales to make up for those losses.
But component prices do go down eventually, but maybe not in the same way as in the past. So comparing console price decreases to previous generations is futile.
Just as we can’t compare high end smartphone prices of today to what they were 15-20 years ago, we also can’t compare console prices or decreases of today to what they were n the past.
Economic conditions change, technology sometimes reaches plateaus, which affects pricing. Things might change again in the future though, i’m not saying it will always stay like this
The real reason is that the industry is too bloated. Too many games constantly releasing, and they can’t all expect that their games will sell over 10M. There’s just not enough free time for people, and money to be spend for all these games releasing. The market is saturated
Just to clarify, consoles in the past used to lower their prices during a console generation because the cost of the components went down. Now that component prices didn’t really go down, and in some cases went up, how do people expect them to lower their prices?
Not only did their main competitor increase the pricing on their consoles, almost all consumer electronics that uses these parts have increased in price. Actually , consoles hardly even increased in price relative to other consumer electronics such as phones, pc parts etc.
I think people often reason too much with how they feel things should cost rather than understanding why they’re priced that way. Why should consoles be the only product immune to rising costs and inflation? (Which affect all industries today)
All this talk about PS5 being too expensive, i bet building a PC with the same specs still comes pretty close to the same costs as the PS5. Shouldnt console prices also be based on manufacturing costs?
Why is Sony criticized for their pricing, while again, they have the cheapest high end consoles on the market. If high end consoles could be made that much cheaper, then why aren’t competitors lowering their consoles prices?
It already only costs $50 more than the new Switch 2. Are people suggesting it should be priced the same, especially since the PS5 has better hardware?
Meanwhile PS5 is the cheapest high end console on the market 🤷🏻♂️
Didn’t MH:Worlds reach 10M sales already in march this year? Probably sold even more now. How high were their expectations in the first place?
Can’t really blame a platform for your games not selling up to your standard though. Why not lower the pricing of your own games in stead of complaining to other companies that they should lower theirs. When some of these CEO’s talk they make it seem like i can be a CEO 🤦🏻♂️
I think i’m one of a few who didnt think the trailer was appealing at all, but hey maybe this’ll change my mind, wont be watching it live though, just not interested. Hope they still do a proper SoP near Tokyo Game Show
They should just be upfront, show what build they currently have to the world, and ask people if its interesting enough or not? If not, just cancel it, many people will understand and already expect it at this moment
Serious respect to these guys! I havent been gaming a lot lately, but i am gonna pick this game up eventually! It just keeps getting better and better and this just looks frickin awesome! Good job HelloGames 👍🏼
Look at the piss poor performance we're getting in some games already and theres still a few years of the gen left. This gen was touted as 4K/60
What do you mean? Plenty of games run at 4k60, especially in the beginning of the consoles life cycle, but that can’t always be the case.
Graphics and engines keep progressing, engines are capable of more things and technologies emerge that require more and more graphics power. Do you expect games to not progress in fidelity? Games become more sophisticated, bigger, better textures, more complex AI and higher fidelity. Thats why new PC graphics cards keep releasing every year.
So ofcourse a ps5, with a graphics card equivalent of a rtx 2070, isnt going to be able to hit targets like 4k60 forever, because games get more demanding to run.
Heck, even a PC with a 4000 series rtx card can’t even play some of these new games on 4K60 anymore, and thats a newer card than what’s in a ps5.
It’s called progression, that’s just how technology works. We can’t expect the ps5 to just keep up indefinitely with increasingly demanding games
To all the people waiting for ps5 to be pushed to its limits: The limit has been reached a while ago. Right now we have 1440p60 with a little bit of ray tracing, 4k30 with full ray tracing or even 4k60 without ray tracing. Not really sure what some of you guys are waiting for.
Games like Death Stranding 2, Hellblade 2, Indiana Jones, GoW: Ragnarok, Horizon FW, Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora, Wukong, Alan Wake 2 and even Astro Bot are some of the best looking games we’re gonna see this generation.
Sure there’ll probably be some even prettier graphics coming like GTA6, Intergalactic and Forza 6. But people here act like there’s so much horsepower being left on the table or something. There’s not gonna be some revolutionary graphics upgrade. Thats not how this works, we’re already approaching photo realism and there’s only so much current tech can do.
The ps5 has an equivalent of a rtx2070, so i dont know what more everyone expects from this machine
People here sound like grandpa’s talking about the good old days of past generations. Yeah houses used to cost a years salary. But times change. The world is changing fast. The PS6 generation might be even more different than any generation before it.
Heck, consoles might be a thing of the past sooner than we think. We might even have flying cars everywhere in a few decades. Things are progressing exponentially and people need to adjust to things changing faster than ever, and not compare everything to how things was done 15, 10 or even 5 years ago
I love the contrast of how some are complaining about new consoles coming up while others say ps5 already has old hardware.
I wonder if there’s another industry where it’s userbase constantly complain about new hardware being released? Do people get mad when new cars, laptops or furniture comes out? Probably they just let other people buy what they want and decide for themselves if they want to upgrade or not
That simply is not true. Consoles upon release are already old tech. That is how they (in theory) make them cheap. The PS5 is a dinosaur compared to even a basic gaming PC.
I was talking about PCs that match the specs of the console, because ofcourse you can buy PC’s with far better specs than the current generation consoles, but it’ll cost an appropriate amount more.
If you buy a PC thats similarly specced at the launch of a console it will cost you more. Yes maybe if you wait to buy it towards the end of a consoles life cycle it might be a different story, but that then begs the question, why would you even buy a PC with such old specs?
The reason console manufacturers can make them cheap is because they buy components in bulk, and they subsidize them in hopes of future software sales, thats why its usually a closed system. They do whats called loss leading.
Its not just because of older specs. Because even though consoles have older or mid range specs at the time of release, you still cant buy the same specced PC for the same price.
Many tried finding PCs with similar specs as the PS5 Pro when that launched and the cheapest was around $1000-$1200, while the PS5 Pro went for $699.
If the PS6 costs $799, i am a 100% certain that you won’t be able to build a PC for the same price. You know why? Because that would totally destroy Sony’s business model and make their product obsolete. No, PC will always be more expensive at the launch of a console. When that stops being true, it will probably be the end of consoles anyway, as one of their main reason for existince is their subsidized pricing
Personally i thought they’d extend it to end of 2028, and i would have preffered that. But hearing all this rumours of next gen Xbox i’m sure Playstation wouldnt want a repeat of x360 era where they released a year later.
I agree with the first post saying we don’t need yearly updates of phone and all types of electronics, but people like to have it.
And also saying it’ll be better to switch to PC if consoles get more expensive isn’t really accounting for the fact that same specced PC’s will always stay more expensive relative to consoles 👀
”Consider" and "focus on" are two different things, though.
But there's obviously a wink wink nudge nudge "understanding" that if you're not considering cross-media potential, you're likely doomed these days.
Hate to be so pedantic, but now you’re using the word consider.
understanding how a new concept can turn into an iconic franchise for PlayStation that can then again become a franchise for people beyond gaming
Again, what i understand from that quote is just that they’re trying to understand how to turn concepts in to iconic franchises and those iconic franchises can then become franchises beyond gaming.
We already see that push beyong gaming through Playstation Productions like Twisted Metal and TLoU tv show, Uncharted, Gran Turismo, Until Dawn movies and the upcoming Helldivers movie, God of War tv show, Ghost of Thushima anime etc.
It’s something many other studios and publishers did as well, almost every publisher looked at which IP they can make a franchise of and expand beyond gaming like Devil May Cry anime, Witcher tv show, Borderlands movie, Minecraft movie, Halo tv show, Mario movie, Mortal Kombat movies, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Angry Bird, Street Fighter, Warcraft etc.
I’m aware that some of those were already established gaming franchises, but they still expanded it beyond gaming, which is something Sony wants to do as well to reach greater audiences.
And i’m very sure other studios and publishers are considering cross media potential when brainstorming new IP as well, and personally i don't think that necessarily has to be a bad thing. It could be though, i agree with you there
@RBMango This is going to be a brief response after such a well thoughout response, because i pretty much agree with everything you said. For the record, i also think their approach to live service was horrible. I also think their approach to Helldivers 2 and Marvel Tokon is more sustainable and more in line of what i expect and would like to see more of from Sony
"Consider" and "focus on" are two different things, though. And they seem to want to REQUIRE most properties be cross-media capable. That just puts a ton of undue pressure on their developers.
I completely agree with you on that. But lets look at the quote Push Square highlighted:
“We take a very intentional approach to IP creation […] understanding how a new concept can turn into an iconic franchise for PlayStation that can then again become a franchise for people beyond gaming.”
It doesnt actually say that theres a requirement though, they’re just looking at understanding how new concept can be developed in to iconic franchises and reach audiences outside of gaming.
There also seems to be a part missing, where two different sentences seem to be placed after another. So we’re missing a bit of context, it seems. Sometimes these quotes are taken way out of context.
But hey, if there is such a requirement, yeah that would be pretty stupid
@TrollOfWar LOL! Sony’s diversification strategy is getting out of hand.
Wait you dont know about their service where you can hire someone to dress up as your favourite character and…. Never mind, i’d better stop before this joke gets flagged 😆
@MFTWrecks I do agree that typically you’d want a games success to organically grow to other media forms. And not every IP can be designed to be iconic from the get go. But i don’t think its that unrrasonable to consider cross media potential during the IP creation process
@Robocod Good points about Hulst appointing and surrounding himself with former employees and thereby possibly creating a environment that might have difficulties pushing back on his decisions
Sometimes, the average person who wants more fun in their games definitely knows better and
You might be right. I, like many here, like to speculate and strategize what Sony needs to do. However, while i agree that they’ve made some stupid decisions, i think you might underestimate the complexity of making such big corporate decisions.
Sure, some of us might have good ideas, but which of those ideas would you follow?
Some of us want sequels, some only want new IPs. Some want IPs to be remade, some hate Remakes. Most only play live service, some of us despise live service. Some want them to focus on AAA exclusives, some want them to focus on indie and AA. There are so many conflicting opinions about everything here, how would you know which decisions to push for?
Even gamers on this site have wildly different expectstions of what they think Sony should do.
Not too mention having to grow financially and keep stockholders happy in an industry that is highly unpredictable. There’s a lot more to it than people clamoring for more “fun” games, especially if those “fun” games don’t sell well. Fun sadly, doesnt always correlate with succesfull. That’s why i referred to Astro Bot in my original post, an undeniably fun game, but it didnt exactly light the world on fire commercialy.
I think Sony is doing their best to diversify their content by focusing on single player, live service, indie (through their many hero projects) while also trying to create IP that they can utilize through the rest of their businesses like Sony Pictures and Music.
Don’t get me wrong, they’ve made some pretty stupid decisions, which i’m not a fan of. But the fact that so many studios everywhere are closing and games fail to deliver commercialy, tells us that its really not that easy to know what gamers want. It’s not only Sony who is struggling with finding the right answers
“They just need to understand gamers and bring the fun back in games!” - Average Push Square commenter
Meanwhile statistics show most gamers play everything from Fortnite, FIFA and CoD to other F2P crap. Deciphering what gamers want is so easy to do for us armchair anaylists, but hardly ever correlates with reality. Saying they need to just bring back the fun in games is so easy when you don’t have a clue which type of games will be succesful anymore nowadays.
Sony made arguably one of the funnest games in their repertoire, which was lauded by critics and users, and even won more than a hundred GOTY awards, but hardly moved the needle commercialy speaking.
But yeah, people here know all the answers 😎
Edit: Also, taking an intentional approach to IP creation doesnt mean it can’t be fun games, as always people here are taking a statement and use elaborate ways to make it mean anything their imagination wants it to mean
Adjusted my expectations accordingly, so it was just fine for me. These shows usually just focus on game updates and release dates anyway, rather than new announcements. I’ll give it an “Okay”
The games i liked: Ghost of Yotei (Legends!), Chronos, Silent Hill F, Onimusha, KCD2 Blacksmith expansion, Batman Lego, project Spectrum
Sony makes such dumb decisions sometimes, in stead of creating IP for themselves they only produce them for other companies.
But yeah Sony Animation was probably just payed to make a movie for Netflix in this case, so it’s only logical and fair that they own the IP.
All in all, it’s still good marketing for Sony Animation. I’ve been very impressed with their movies and the art styles used like Spiderman, Mitchell vs the machines and K-pop Demon Hunters.
Just a shame they don’t produce these kinds of IP for themselves (except for the Mitchell one i think).
But I think being easily pleased and accepting any old slop is the real problem
Sword of the Sea is a Day 1 game. And most of these games (besides Spiderman) are around 1 to 2 years old. How many Day 1 games should they add this month in your opinion, for you to not consider this “old slop”?
People expect so much from a service that costs as low as $13/month.
Personally, considering there’s even a Day 1 game on it, some of the best retro titles of the PS1 generation and 12 games with a msrp worth that far exceeds the $13/month the service asks for, i think this is great value. Sure, the titles offered will always be subjective. But where you might find people are “easily pleased and accepting”, i find people who think this month is crap a bit too negative.
I’m genuinely curious, if you were to be honest (and reasonable), what type of games do you expect for $13/month?
Who the f**k thought Blue Point making GoW live service was a good idea!?
I’m pretty sure Blue Point proposed this to Sony themselves, rather than it being assigned to them. So Blue Point also must have thought it was a good idea
Personally, while i agree their live service strategy isn't going smoothly (because of it being a stupid strategy to begin with), i think having 4 relatively succesful live service titles is a pretty solid outcome, at least if you think about it reasonably. It’s very hard to be the next Fortnite in this space, that’s just not gonna happen. But having a few titles that do reasonably well is a pretty good outcome.
Most people understood that the 12 live service titles they had in development weren’t all going to succeed. The live service space is just too risky and competitive. Even Sony themselves likely understood that the majority of those titles would either fail or get cancelled. They were just hoping that a few were gonna stick.
Thats just the reality of game development today, having 6 or so games get cancelled this gen sounds like a lot, but is actually pretty normal and happens pretty much all the time with every publisher behind the scenes.
By my count they have 4 relatively succesful live service titles, namely GT7, MLB, Destiny 2 and Helldivers 2.
I think Fairgames will get cancelled.
But they will still release Marvel Tokon, Marathon, Horizon Online, that TeamLFG game and that FPS from Dark Outlaw studios.
Honestly, if even 1 or 2 of those game is succesful, i’d say their live service effort has been pretty solid overall. Again, if we were to be reasonable, we can’t expect them all the be winners, but having 4 or 5 succesful live service titles seems pretty solid, at least to me
Sony would rather throw money at an extraction shooter based on a dead Mac fps...
They have no idea what currently works in the online space, and even less an idea of what the future holds. They just throw money out and pull the lever. It's maddening.
To be fair, I’m pretty sure Marathon was in development at Bungie years before Sony even acquired them. It’s not necessarily Sony pursuing this title, but Bungie.
Not too mention Sony acquired Bungie under the condition that Bungie would stay in control, so Sony probably didn't have much say in it until recently.
I do agree however, that they seem pretty clueless as to what works in the live service space. But to be fair again, most titles seem to fail anyway nowadays. It’s hard to tell what might work or what wouldn’t
I don’t think you can judge current Sony management by historic success. Just look at the live service dreck they’ve been cooking up this generation.
It’s not just historic succes though. Even this generation, Sony has had several critically acclaimed releases, one even winning GOTY. Just last month they released Death Stranding 2, which was also well received by critics.
Some people like to judge Sony based solely on their live service efforts (because of the catastrophic failure of Concord and the cancellations). But personally, i think having 4 successful live service titles so far (there are still a few live service titles coming) isn't necessarily that bad of a result.
The 12 live service titles Sony had in development weren’t all meant to be successful. I think most of the gaming public who know how risky and competitive the live service space is understood very well that most of those games would either fail or get cancelled. Having 4 or 5 relatively succesful live service titles out of 12 is actually a pretty solid outcome. They can’t all be winners.
I don’t think people realize how many games get cancelled all the time behind the scenes. Having 6 or so games cancelled is actually pretty normal, people just like to put extra heat on Sony because they’re one of the largest players in the game and expectations are higher.
So personally i wouldn’t judge current Sony management solely on their live service effort, because they also still make outstanding non live service games, and even some of their live service titles are pretty good like GT7, MLB, Destiny 2 and Helldivers 2. However, i will say that their approach to live service game was extremely bad
Sony should fix their pr and marketing department before releasing any live service game. I’m convinced public perception weighs heavier than most other variables when determining a live service title’s succes
Of course Microsoft making money on PS5, they’re one of the biggest publishers around. If not the biggest?
All i see is more games going to PS. And while we’re celebrating Microsofts financials, i guess. We can safely assume Playstation is making bank as well, seeing as they get a 30% cut as well on all those games, but without the investments.
Also curious to see what revenue Sony gets from PS+, since PS+ has more subscribers and active users that buy things through PS+ than Game Pass
People are right when they say Sony’s equivalent to GamePass is not Essential but Extra/Premium. But what they forget is that Extra/Premium is also way cheaper, so it’s not a 1 on 1 comparison to GamePass.
PS+ Extra&Premium costs $11.25 and $13.30/month respectively, compared to GamePass’s $20/month.
So when comparing the services the prices should be taken in to consideration.
Personally, i think every PS+ tier offers amazing value at each price point. Even Premium, what many consider to be the least worth it service, i’d argue offers great value.
And as a thought exercise, i’d like anyone to explain what they think the service(Premium) should offer more at it’s price point of $13.30/month (without being unreasonable like suggesting Day 1 games which would be impossible at this price point considering the competition asks $20/month for that service)
As a reminder what the service currently offers at $13.30/month:
Catalogue of 700+ PS4 and PS5 games (hundreds more than GamePass)
Including Ubisoft+ Classics
Monthly addition of 10-15 games usually worth in excess of $100+ msrp
Classic games going back through all Playstation generations including PS1, PS2, PS3 and PSP
Ocassional Day 1 games
Online Multiplayer
Exclusive discounts
Share Play
Sony Pictures catalogue (rotating selection of movies)
VR games catalogue
Cloud Streaming up to 4K (better video quality than Game Pass)
For $13.30/month i think thats amazing value objectively. And even when compared to GamePass it holds up when considering it’s much cheaper price point. Now what do people think they should offer more at this price point?
@TrollOfWar I don't think there’s anything wrong with a little bit of brand identity. That’s why some of us are here. We like Playstation. Not all people who prefer a brand are automatically fanboys. If people all over the world can go crazy over their favorite sports teams then i’m fine with a little bit of harmless brand support.
I agree though, some fanboys (from both sides) can be very immature and annoying. But i just tend to focus on the people here who do have well thought out opinions on the industry, in stead of focusing on fanboys’ biased takes and truncated views.
@lacerz I’m really weirded out by this narrative that Xbox is somehow “helping Sony out” by releasing these games on Playstation, when literally all of these games (except for Forza) would have released on Playstation anyway.
Edit: Never mind, i read it wrong, my bad. You were talking about former Xbox exclusives(Forza) and not these cross platform games
@Fartingale Exactly! The list would look exactly the same even if MS didn’t acquire Zenimax+Activision. Don’t quite understand why this chart is supposed to be so eye opening.
People act like Xbox are bringing these IPs over to Playstation for the first time or something, when all of these titles, except for Forza, have released on Playstation for decades lol
Comments 1,542
Re: PS5's High Price Becoming a Serious Headache for Publishers
@BAMozzy If cost of entry to an ecosystem is the issue, there are many options to circumvent that. You could buy a second hand PS5 for example, and i’ve seen them go for as low as $150.
But that’s not the main issue people are discussing here. People are claiming the PS5 is too expensive. But in reality, the PS5 is the cheapest high end console on the market.
There aren’t any high end consoles that are cheaper than a PS5. It’s $50 cheaper than an Xbox and $50 more than the new Switch 2. I think thats a totally fair price. I think it’s unreasonable for people to expect Sony to make the PS5 cheaper than a Switch, especially since the PS5 has higher end hardware.
And as many have pointed out already, that baseline price point of $300 you mentioned, if you account for inflation, would still be between $500-$600 in todays money. So the pricing doesnt really seem out of line.
Unfortunately, due to inflation, the affordability of these consoles might start pricing people out. I’m not saying i agree with it, but that’s what he current situation is
Re: PS5's High Price Becoming a Serious Headache for Publishers
@Porco
Current prices:
Before the Switch 2 released the PS5 Digital was also at $450, but i can definitely understand that they couldn’t keep those prices, especially since the PS5 is a more powerful machine.
Even after the recent increase, i think Sony has priced their console competitively and fair compared to their competition in the console space. How would you price the PS5?
Actually, for everyone here saying the PS5 is priced too expensive. What do you think they should price it at? And should they totally ignore competitors pricing when determining that?
Re: PS5's High Price Becoming a Serious Headache for Publishers
@Balosi You’re right! So they will really have to think carefully about how they’re going to approach next gen.
Next gen consoles will either be very expensive, and thereby alienating a large part of the userbase. Or they could go back to a loss leading strategy by heavily subsidizing the cost of their console, and having to rely on software sales to make up for those losses.
But component prices do go down eventually, but maybe not in the same way as in the past. So comparing console price decreases to previous generations is futile.
Just as we can’t compare high end smartphone prices of today to what they were 15-20 years ago, we also can’t compare console prices or decreases of today to what they were n the past.
Economic conditions change, technology sometimes reaches plateaus, which affects pricing. Things might change again in the future though, i’m not saying it will always stay like this
Re: PS5's High Price Becoming a Serious Headache for Publishers
The real reason is that the industry is too bloated. Too many games constantly releasing, and they can’t all expect that their games will sell over 10M. There’s just not enough free time for people, and money to be spend for all these games releasing. The market is saturated
Re: PS5's High Price Becoming a Serious Headache for Publishers
Just to clarify, consoles in the past used to lower their prices during a console generation because the cost of the components went down. Now that component prices didn’t really go down, and in some cases went up, how do people expect them to lower their prices?
Not only did their main competitor increase the pricing on their consoles, almost all consumer electronics that uses these parts have increased in price. Actually , consoles hardly even increased in price relative to other consumer electronics such as phones, pc parts etc.
I think people often reason too much with how they feel things should cost rather than understanding why they’re priced that way. Why should consoles be the only product immune to rising costs and inflation? (Which affect all industries today)
Re: PS5's High Price Becoming a Serious Headache for Publishers
All this talk about PS5 being too expensive, i bet building a PC with the same specs still comes pretty close to the same costs as the PS5. Shouldnt console prices also be based on manufacturing costs?
Why is Sony criticized for their pricing, while again, they have the cheapest high end consoles on the market. If high end consoles could be made that much cheaper, then why aren’t competitors lowering their consoles prices?
It already only costs $50 more than the new Switch 2. Are people suggesting it should be priced the same, especially since the PS5 has better hardware?
Re: PS5's High Price Becoming a Serious Headache for Publishers
Meanwhile PS5 is the cheapest high end console on the market 🤷🏻♂️
Didn’t MH:Worlds reach 10M sales already in march this year? Probably sold even more now. How high were their expectations in the first place?
Can’t really blame a platform for your games not selling up to your standard though. Why not lower the pricing of your own games in stead of complaining to other companies that they should lower theirs. When some of these CEO’s talk they make it seem like i can be a CEO 🤦🏻♂️
Re: State of Play Confirmed for 3rd September, Deep Dive on 007 First Light
I think i’m one of a few who didnt think the trailer was appealing at all, but hey maybe this’ll change my mind, wont be watching it live though, just not interested. Hope they still do a proper SoP near Tokyo Game Show
Re: Sony's Troubled Live Service Game Fairgames Just Can't Catch a Break
They should just be upfront, show what build they currently have to the world, and ask people if its interesting enough or not? If not, just cancel it, many people will understand and already expect it at this moment
Re: Ghost of Yotei Focuses on Firearms in Latest PS5 Gameplay Video
Combat looks sick! But i have to say, those ground textures are buggin me. How can they make the decision to leave it like that?
Re: No Man's Sky Voyagers Reinvents Player Ships in Latest Free Mega-Update on PS5, PS4
Serious respect to these guys! I havent been gaming a lot lately, but i am gonna pick this game up eventually! It just keeps getting better and better and this just looks frickin awesome! Good job HelloGames 👍🏼
Re: 'There's No Real Need for a PS6': Industry Veteran Weighs in on Next-Gen Debate
@Andy22385
What do you mean? Plenty of games run at 4k60, especially in the beginning of the consoles life cycle, but that can’t always be the case.
Graphics and engines keep progressing, engines are capable of more things and technologies emerge that require more and more graphics power. Do you expect games to not progress in fidelity? Games become more sophisticated, bigger, better textures, more complex AI and higher fidelity. Thats why new PC graphics cards keep releasing every year.
So ofcourse a ps5, with a graphics card equivalent of a rtx 2070, isnt going to be able to hit targets like 4k60 forever, because games get more demanding to run.
Heck, even a PC with a 4000 series rtx card can’t even play some of these new games on 4K60 anymore, and thats a newer card than what’s in a ps5.
It’s called progression, that’s just how technology works. We can’t expect the ps5 to just keep up indefinitely with increasingly demanding games
Re: 'There's No Real Need for a PS6': Industry Veteran Weighs in on Next-Gen Debate
To all the people waiting for ps5 to be pushed to its limits: The limit has been reached a while ago. Right now we have 1440p60 with a little bit of ray tracing, 4k30 with full ray tracing or even 4k60 without ray tracing. Not really sure what some of you guys are waiting for.
Games like Death Stranding 2, Hellblade 2, Indiana Jones, GoW: Ragnarok, Horizon FW, Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora, Wukong, Alan Wake 2 and even Astro Bot are some of the best looking games we’re gonna see this generation.
Sure there’ll probably be some even prettier graphics coming like GTA6, Intergalactic and Forza 6. But people here act like there’s so much horsepower being left on the table or something. There’s not gonna be some revolutionary graphics upgrade. Thats not how this works, we’re already approaching photo realism and there’s only so much current tech can do.
The ps5 has an equivalent of a rtx2070, so i dont know what more everyone expects from this machine
Re: 'There's No Real Need for a PS6': Industry Veteran Weighs in on Next-Gen Debate
People here sound like grandpa’s talking about the good old days of past generations. Yeah houses used to cost a years salary. But times change. The world is changing fast. The PS6 generation might be even more different than any generation before it.
Heck, consoles might be a thing of the past sooner than we think. We might even have flying cars everywhere in a few decades. Things are progressing exponentially and people need to adjust to things changing faster than ever, and not compare everything to how things was done 15, 10 or even 5 years ago
Re: 'There's No Real Need for a PS6': Industry Veteran Weighs in on Next-Gen Debate
I love the contrast of how some are complaining about new consoles coming up while others say ps5 already has old hardware.
I wonder if there’s another industry where it’s userbase constantly complain about new hardware being released? Do people get mad when new cars, laptops or furniture comes out? Probably they just let other people buy what they want and decide for themselves if they want to upgrade or not
Re: 'There's No Real Need for a PS6': Industry Veteran Weighs in on Next-Gen Debate
@LifeGirl
I was talking about PCs that match the specs of the console, because ofcourse you can buy PC’s with far better specs than the current generation consoles, but it’ll cost an appropriate amount more.
If you buy a PC thats similarly specced at the launch of a console it will cost you more. Yes maybe if you wait to buy it towards the end of a consoles life cycle it might be a different story, but that then begs the question, why would you even buy a PC with such old specs?
The reason console manufacturers can make them cheap is because they buy components in bulk, and they subsidize them in hopes of future software sales, thats why its usually a closed system. They do whats called loss leading.
Its not just because of older specs. Because even though consoles have older or mid range specs at the time of release, you still cant buy the same specced PC for the same price.
Many tried finding PCs with similar specs as the PS5 Pro when that launched and the cheapest was around $1000-$1200, while the PS5 Pro went for $699.
If the PS6 costs $799, i am a 100% certain that you won’t be able to build a PC for the same price. You know why? Because that would totally destroy Sony’s business model and make their product obsolete. No, PC will always be more expensive at the launch of a console. When that stops being true, it will probably be the end of consoles anyway, as one of their main reason for existince is their subsidized pricing
Re: 'There's No Real Need for a PS6': Industry Veteran Weighs in on Next-Gen Debate
Personally i thought they’d extend it to end of 2028, and i would have preffered that. But hearing all this rumours of next gen Xbox i’m sure Playstation wouldnt want a repeat of x360 era where they released a year later.
I agree with the first post saying we don’t need yearly updates of phone and all types of electronics, but people like to have it.
And also saying it’ll be better to switch to PC if consoles get more expensive isn’t really accounting for the fact that same specced PC’s will always stay more expensive relative to consoles 👀
Re: 'The Number of Live Service Games Is Not Important': PS5 Boss Gives Rare Insight into Strategy
@MFTWrecks
Hate to be so pedantic, but now you’re using the word consider.
Again, what i understand from that quote is just that they’re trying to understand how to turn concepts in to iconic franchises and those iconic franchises can then become franchises beyond gaming.
We already see that push beyong gaming through Playstation Productions like Twisted Metal and TLoU tv show, Uncharted, Gran Turismo, Until Dawn movies and the upcoming Helldivers movie, God of War tv show, Ghost of Thushima anime etc.
It’s something many other studios and publishers did as well, almost every publisher looked at which IP they can make a franchise of and expand beyond gaming like Devil May Cry anime, Witcher tv show, Borderlands movie, Minecraft movie, Halo tv show, Mario movie, Mortal Kombat movies, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Angry Bird, Street Fighter, Warcraft etc.
I’m aware that some of those were already established gaming franchises, but they still expanded it beyond gaming, which is something Sony wants to do as well to reach greater audiences.
And i’m very sure other studios and publishers are considering cross media potential when brainstorming new IP as well, and personally i don't think that necessarily has to be a bad thing. It could be though, i agree with you there
Re: 'The Number of Live Service Games Is Not Important': PS5 Boss Gives Rare Insight into Strategy
@RBMango This is going to be a brief response after such a well thoughout response, because i pretty much agree with everything you said. For the record, i also think their approach to live service was horrible. I also think their approach to Helldivers 2 and Marvel Tokon is more sustainable and more in line of what i expect and would like to see more of from Sony
Re: 'The Number of Live Service Games Is Not Important': PS5 Boss Gives Rare Insight into Strategy
@MFTWrecks
I completely agree with you on that. But lets look at the quote Push Square highlighted:
It doesnt actually say that theres a requirement though, they’re just looking at understanding how new concept can be developed in to iconic franchises and reach audiences outside of gaming.
There also seems to be a part missing, where two different sentences seem to be placed after another. So we’re missing a bit of context, it seems. Sometimes these quotes are taken way out of context.
But hey, if there is such a requirement, yeah that would be pretty stupid
Re: 'The Number of Live Service Games Is Not Important': PS5 Boss Gives Rare Insight into Strategy
@TrollOfWar LOL! Sony’s diversification strategy is getting out of hand.
Wait you dont know about their service where you can hire someone to dress up as your favourite character and…. Never mind, i’d better stop before this joke gets flagged 😆
Re: 'The Number of Live Service Games Is Not Important': PS5 Boss Gives Rare Insight into Strategy
@MFTWrecks I do agree that typically you’d want a games success to organically grow to other media forms. And not every IP can be designed to be iconic from the get go. But i don’t think its that unrrasonable to consider cross media potential during the IP creation process
Re: 'The Number of Live Service Games Is Not Important': PS5 Boss Gives Rare Insight into Strategy
@Robocod Good points about Hulst appointing and surrounding himself with former employees and thereby possibly creating a environment that might have difficulties pushing back on his decisions
Re: 'The Number of Live Service Games Is Not Important': PS5 Boss Gives Rare Insight into Strategy
@RBMango
You might be right. I, like many here, like to speculate and strategize what Sony needs to do. However, while i agree that they’ve made some stupid decisions, i think you might underestimate the complexity of making such big corporate decisions.
Sure, some of us might have good ideas, but which of those ideas would you follow?
Some of us want sequels, some only want new IPs. Some want IPs to be remade, some hate Remakes. Most only play live service, some of us despise live service. Some want them to focus on AAA exclusives, some want them to focus on indie and AA. There are so many conflicting opinions about everything here, how would you know which decisions to push for?
Even gamers on this site have wildly different expectstions of what they think Sony should do.
Not too mention having to grow financially and keep stockholders happy in an industry that is highly unpredictable. There’s a lot more to it than people clamoring for more “fun” games, especially if those “fun” games don’t sell well. Fun sadly, doesnt always correlate with succesfull. That’s why i referred to Astro Bot in my original post, an undeniably fun game, but it didnt exactly light the world on fire commercialy.
I think Sony is doing their best to diversify their content by focusing on single player, live service, indie (through their many hero projects) while also trying to create IP that they can utilize through the rest of their businesses like Sony Pictures and Music.
Don’t get me wrong, they’ve made some pretty stupid decisions, which i’m not a fan of. But the fact that so many studios everywhere are closing and games fail to deliver commercialy, tells us that its really not that easy to know what gamers want. It’s not only Sony who is struggling with finding the right answers
Edit: live service 😇
Re: 'The Number of Live Service Games Is Not Important': PS5 Boss Gives Rare Insight into Strategy
@Intr1n5ic Haha, Love this! 😂👍🏼
Re: 'The Number of Live Service Games Is Not Important': PS5 Boss Gives Rare Insight into Strategy
“They just need to understand gamers and bring the fun back in games!” - Average Push Square commenter
Meanwhile statistics show most gamers play everything from Fortnite, FIFA and CoD to other F2P crap. Deciphering what gamers want is so easy to do for us armchair anaylists, but hardly ever correlates with reality. Saying they need to just bring back the fun in games is so easy when you don’t have a clue which type of games will be succesful anymore nowadays.
Sony made arguably one of the funnest games in their repertoire, which was lauded by critics and users, and even won more than a hundred GOTY awards, but hardly moved the needle commercialy speaking.
But yeah, people here know all the answers 😎
Edit: Also, taking an intentional approach to IP creation doesnt mean it can’t be fun games, as always people here are taking a statement and use elaborate ways to make it mean anything their imagination wants it to mean
Re: Ghost of Yotei Legends Multiplayer Drops as Free DLC in 2026, New Story Trailer Is a Stunner
Legends!!! Awesome trailer, best game of the show, for me
Re: Poll: How Would You Rate Gamescom Opening Night Live 2025?
Adjusted my expectations accordingly, so it was just fine for me. These shows usually just focus on game updates and release dates anyway, rather than new announcements. I’ll give it an “Okay”
The games i liked: Ghost of Yotei (Legends!), Chronos, Silent Hill F, Onimusha, KCD2 Blacksmith expansion, Batman Lego, project Spectrum
Re: Halo: ODST Content Officially on PS5 in Next Week's Helldivers 2 Update
What a time to be alive
Re: Konami 'Forgiven' for Dropping Metal Gear Solid Voice Lead in Fifth Game
Took him 10 years to get over that? 🥲
Re: PS5 Stunner Phantom Blade Zero Looks Out of This World in New Gameplay Trailer
@tselliot This game looks more Devil May Cry/Ninja Gaiden than a souls like. Definitely more action hack n slash than souls combat mechanics
Re: PS5 Stunner Phantom Blade Zero Looks Out of This World in New Gameplay Trailer
Yes, they are kidding. This looks too sick. Hope we get a release date soon
Re: Sword of the Sea (PS5) - Stunning Journey-Like Is a PS Plus Extra Hall of Famer
This looks great! 👍🏼 Time to sub PS+ again
Re: 'Maybe a PS Showcase, Probably a State of Play': Sony Plotting PS5 Livestream for Late September
Looks at sub title 👀
Couldnt have said it better myself
Re: Meltdowns on Social Media As Sony Markets Its Upcoming Xbox Port
Somehow the twitter comment sounds like something a console warrior himself would say.
Looks at username: Ah yeah, that makes sense 🤓
Re: Sony Made a Massive Mistake with Movie Sensation K-Pop Demon Hunters
Sony makes such dumb decisions sometimes, in stead of creating IP for themselves they only produce them for other companies.
But yeah Sony Animation was probably just payed to make a movie for Netflix in this case, so it’s only logical and fair that they own the IP.
All in all, it’s still good marketing for Sony Animation. I’ve been very impressed with their movies and the art styles used like Spiderman, Mitchell vs the machines and K-pop Demon Hunters.
Just a shame they don’t produce these kinds of IP for themselves (except for the Mitchell one i think).
Re: 12 PS Plus Extra, Premium Games for August 2025 Announced
@CaptainWow
Sword of the Sea is a Day 1 game. And most of these games (besides Spiderman) are around 1 to 2 years old. How many Day 1 games should they add this month in your opinion, for you to not consider this “old slop”?
People expect so much from a service that costs as low as $13/month.
Personally, considering there’s even a Day 1 game on it, some of the best retro titles of the PS1 generation and 12 games with a msrp worth that far exceeds the $13/month the service asks for, i think this is great value. Sure, the titles offered will always be subjective. But where you might find people are “easily pleased and accepting”, i find people who think this month is crap a bit too negative.
I’m genuinely curious, if you were to be honest (and reasonable), what type of games do you expect for $13/month?
Re: 12 PS Plus Extra, Premium Games for August 2025 Announced
23 comments and just one mention of Sword of the Sea?! This month is a banger!
Re: A Quote from a Sony Exec Is Causing a Hubbub Among PS5 Fans Again
@PuppetMaster At least someone here gets it! 👍🏼
Re: Sony Admits PS5 Live Service Push Is Not Going Smoothly
I’m pretty sure Blue Point proposed this to Sony themselves, rather than it being assigned to them. So Blue Point also must have thought it was a good idea
Re: Sony Admits PS5 Live Service Push Is Not Going Smoothly
Personally, while i agree their live service strategy isn't going smoothly (because of it being a stupid strategy to begin with), i think having 4 relatively succesful live service titles is a pretty solid outcome, at least if you think about it reasonably. It’s very hard to be the next Fortnite in this space, that’s just not gonna happen. But having a few titles that do reasonably well is a pretty good outcome.
Most people understood that the 12 live service titles they had in development weren’t all going to succeed. The live service space is just too risky and competitive. Even Sony themselves likely understood that the majority of those titles would either fail or get cancelled. They were just hoping that a few were gonna stick.
Thats just the reality of game development today, having 6 or so games get cancelled this gen sounds like a lot, but is actually pretty normal and happens pretty much all the time with every publisher behind the scenes.
By my count they have 4 relatively succesful live service titles, namely GT7, MLB, Destiny 2 and Helldivers 2.
I think Fairgames will get cancelled.
But they will still release Marvel Tokon, Marathon, Horizon Online, that TeamLFG game and that FPS from Dark Outlaw studios.
Honestly, if even 1 or 2 of those game is succesful, i’d say their live service effort has been pretty solid overall. Again, if we were to be reasonable, we can’t expect them all the be winners, but having 4 or 5 succesful live service titles seems pretty solid, at least to me
Re: Sony Admits PS5 Live Service Push Is Not Going Smoothly
@LikelySatan
To be fair, I’m pretty sure Marathon was in development at Bungie years before Sony even acquired them. It’s not necessarily Sony pursuing this title, but Bungie.
Not too mention Sony acquired Bungie under the condition that Bungie would stay in control, so Sony probably didn't have much say in it until recently.
I do agree however, that they seem pretty clueless as to what works in the live service space. But to be fair again, most titles seem to fail anyway nowadays. It’s hard to tell what might work or what wouldn’t
Re: Sony Controlling More of Marathon Dev Bungie, Will Be Integrated into PS Studios
@nessisonett
It’s not just historic succes though. Even this generation, Sony has had several critically acclaimed releases, one even winning GOTY. Just last month they released Death Stranding 2, which was also well received by critics.
Some people like to judge Sony based solely on their live service efforts (because of the catastrophic failure of Concord and the cancellations). But personally, i think having 4 successful live service titles so far (there are still a few live service titles coming) isn't necessarily that bad of a result.
The 12 live service titles Sony had in development weren’t all meant to be successful. I think most of the gaming public who know how risky and competitive the live service space is understood very well that most of those games would either fail or get cancelled. Having 4 or 5 relatively succesful live service titles out of 12 is actually a pretty solid outcome. They can’t all be winners.
I don’t think people realize how many games get cancelled all the time behind the scenes. Having 6 or so games cancelled is actually pretty normal, people just like to put extra heat on Sony because they’re one of the largest players in the game and expectations are higher.
So personally i wouldn’t judge current Sony management solely on their live service effort, because they also still make outstanding non live service games, and even some of their live service titles are pretty good like GT7, MLB, Destiny 2 and Helldivers 2. However, i will say that their approach to live service game was extremely bad
Re: Sony Controlling More of Marathon Dev Bungie, Will Be Integrated into PS Studios
Sony should fix their pr and marketing department before releasing any live service game. I’m convinced public perception weighs heavier than most other variables when determining a live service title’s succes
Re: We're Not Entirely Sold on Sony Funded PS5 Shooter EXILEDGE Yet
Having read the article first, and the emphasis of the title, i was expecting something way worse. I think it actually looks kinda cool! 😄
Re: Watch Pro Players Get to Grips with Marvel Tokon in Unedited PS5 Gameplay
Looks like it has the potential to become the go to fighting game
Re: Microsoft Reiterates It's the Top Publisher on PS5 in Earnings Call
Of course Microsoft making money on PS5, they’re one of the biggest publishers around. If not the biggest?
All i see is more games going to PS. And while we’re celebrating Microsofts financials, i guess. We can safely assume Playstation is making bank as well, seeing as they get a 30% cut as well on all those games, but without the investments.
Also curious to see what revenue Sony gets from PS+, since PS+ has more subscribers and active users that buy things through PS+ than Game Pass
Re: Reaction: PS Plus Essential Deserves Much More Credit for Its Free PS5, PS4 Games in 2025
People are right when they say Sony’s equivalent to GamePass is not Essential but Extra/Premium. But what they forget is that Extra/Premium is also way cheaper, so it’s not a 1 on 1 comparison to GamePass.
PS+ Extra&Premium costs $11.25 and $13.30/month respectively, compared to GamePass’s $20/month.
So when comparing the services the prices should be taken in to consideration.
Personally, i think every PS+ tier offers amazing value at each price point. Even Premium, what many consider to be the least worth it service, i’d argue offers great value.
And as a thought exercise, i’d like anyone to explain what they think the service(Premium) should offer more at it’s price point of $13.30/month (without being unreasonable like suggesting Day 1 games which would be impossible at this price point considering the competition asks $20/month for that service)
As a reminder what the service currently offers at $13.30/month:
For $13.30/month i think thats amazing value objectively. And even when compared to GamePass it holds up when considering it’s much cheaper price point. Now what do people think they should offer more at this price point?
Re: Eye-Opening PS5 Sales Data Reveals Why Microsoft Is Porting Xbox Games
@TrollOfWar I don't think there’s anything wrong with a little bit of brand identity. That’s why some of us are here. We like Playstation. Not all people who prefer a brand are automatically fanboys. If people all over the world can go crazy over their favorite sports teams then i’m fine with a little bit of harmless brand support.
I agree though, some fanboys (from both sides) can be very immature and annoying. But i just tend to focus on the people here who do have well thought out opinions on the industry, in stead of focusing on fanboys’ biased takes and truncated views.
Re: Eye-Opening PS5 Sales Data Reveals Why Microsoft Is Porting Xbox Games
@lacerz I’m really weirded out by this narrative that Xbox is somehow “helping Sony out” by releasing these games on Playstation, when literally all of these games (except for Forza) would have released on Playstation anyway.
Edit: Never mind, i read it wrong, my bad. You were talking about former Xbox exclusives(Forza) and not these cross platform games
@Fartingale Exactly! The list would look exactly the same even if MS didn’t acquire Zenimax+Activision. Don’t quite understand why this chart is supposed to be so eye opening.
People act like Xbox are bringing these IPs over to Playstation for the first time or something, when all of these titles, except for Forza, have released on Playstation for decades lol