Comments 1,611

Re: Narrative Thriller Arctic Awakening Finally Reemerges with PS5 Release Date

Fiendish-Beaver

I have not heard of this game before, and thought I'd watch the above video to confirm that it was not a game I would want to play. The first 10 seconds or so, and I was of the opinion that I was right, and I would not buy it. However, having now watched the entire video, I am really interested to play the game. The story looks like it could be very intriguing. I await for the reviews with interest...

Re: Action RPG Lords of the Fallen 2 Reveal Confirmed for Next Week

Fiendish-Beaver

I own the first game, but haven't played it yet, @aethermath. It's good to know you can disable the multiplayer bit as I never use that anyway. I always beat any Souls game I play entirely solo. The idea of being invaded though does not sound like fun to me. I played New World: Aternum, and they have one area that is entirely PvP, meaning I never went there...😂

Re: Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 Enhanced (PS5) - Cinematic Spectacle Offers Little Else

Fiendish-Beaver

The game (and I use the term loosely!) is absolutely beautiful to look at, and you will struggle to find a comparable visual experience. Personally, I enjoyed the first game more, and I replayed it prior to playing the second. I will never replay the second because it does not offer enough beyond being beautiful to warrant replaying. I don't regret having played it, I just wouldn't want to do so again.

Honestly, if you have time, and the patience to walk through some stunning vistas, then it is worth playing. If you like some action in your games, and it looking pretty is not enough, then this game is not for you...

Re: 'It'll Be Worth It': Baldur's Gate 3 Boss Shares High Hopes for Studio's Next Big Game

Fiendish-Beaver

I did Early Access for both Divinity Original Sin 2, which I kick-started, and also for BG3 on the PC, and assuming that Larian do Early Access for their next game (probably on the PC again) then I shall be there for that too. I pre-ordered the EA for BG3, and then when they released it I sat for 5 hours waiting to download it because there were so many of us trying to do so at the same time. 😂

Anyway, I am very keen to see what Larian do next, I am hoping it will be Divinity Original Sin 3, but I would be delighted if they tried their hand at Science Fiction too. All I really want from them is a CRPG with turn-based combat, and hopefully fully voiced and superbly acted cutscenes. In Larian I have great faith because they are simply the best developer out there.

What I will say though is that with an Overwhelmingly Positive score, with 682,428 reviews, must surely tell everyone that BG3 was something very special indeed...

Re: Darksiders 4 May Finally Be PS5's Answer to Classic Zelda

Fiendish-Beaver

As much as I like the sound of this game, and it will be a definite pre-order for me, I would much have preferred to have had a solo outing for Strife, and not a game that involved them all. I'm happy to have this game, but I'm at a loss at why they didn't let Strife go it alone before this game came out...

Re: Rumour: Leaked PS6 Specs Reveal Affordable, Power Efficient Next-Gen Console

Fiendish-Beaver

So does this mean it is more powerful than the Pro, yet cheaper? As powerful as the Pro, yet cheaper? Or does it sit between the PS5 and the Pro in both power and price?

One thing I will say though is that if these specs are right, and it is indeed more powerful than the Pro (which I would expect), and yet it is also cheaper, then the need to own a Pro right now takes a backseat as far as I am concerned, and I'll just wait for the PS6 instead...

Re: Rumour: Sony to Put More First-Party PS5 Games on Xbox

Fiendish-Beaver

I think it will just be Live Service games and also licenced games, so MLB and maybe Lego Horizon. As for games such as The Last of Us and God of War, both have television series linked to them, so there is interest on the Xbox in these games, but I struggle to see Sony taking them to the Xbox because that interest may be enough to lure your Xbox gamer over to the Blue side.

What I will say is that Sony will be absolutely aware of how many copies of the likes of Gears of War or Forza sell on the PlayStation, and the numbers maybe tempting to some extent for games such as Uncharted, which are pretty old at this point.

However, I personally believe that Microsoft are only porting games because they have reached desperation point in that their games are not selling particularly well where Game Pass is available, and thus they see the PlayStation as a place they can earn good money. Sony is not in the same position.

I also believe that Microsoft have effectively destroyed the Xbox brand and the need to own an Xbox now, and that the next generation will be their last as a consequence. Sony need to be very mindful of this, although I do believe that people are pretty much imbedded in their chosen platform now, although I do feel that many Xbox gamers are pretty disillusioned and so may choose to go Blue, whereas I don't think your average PlayStation gamer feels the same way about Sony.

Ultimately, I sceptical about Sony aggressively pursuing this path, particularly with new or more recent games, but I suppose that Sony may see this as an opportunity worth exploring for older games in particular. What I can definitely see though is many Xbox gamers jumping up and down with joy in the belief that just because Microsoft is doing this it is inevitable that Sony will (which it isn't!), but regardless they will try and will this into existence...

Re: Xbox's Phil Spencer 'Not Retiring' After Dark Day of Cancellations and Job Cuts

Fiendish-Beaver

And you are simply too cynical for your own good, @Flaming_Kaiser. You clearly have no idea of how management works, nor how when an order comes from on high, you have no choice but to follow it.

Spencer was hung out to dry by Nadella, as he had a vision for Xbox's future, which he told the Xbox community about, and then Nadella moved not just the goal posts but also the pitch and the city the match was to be held in. Why else do you think Spencer disappeared for so long?

You have simply decided that Spencer is bad, what he says is bad, Xbox are bad, and Microsoft are bad, and that's clearly the mantra you live by, so no matter what I say to you in a reasonable manner, all you can do is retort with childish insults.

Good luck to you, matey. Let's leave it there...

Re: Xbox's Gears of War: E-Day Seemingly in Development for PS5

Fiendish-Beaver

I'm not so sure about that, @Questionable_Duck. Gears of War usually has a 3-4 year development cycle, and we still don't know with any certainty that it is coming out in 2026.

The decision to put Xbox games on to the PlayStation will have been taken well before last year, so I think it entirely feasible that E-Day was only made because they wanted to branch out to the PlayStation. I mean, why the sudden change? Why didn't they make Gears 6 and finish off that particular story? It is, after all, the same studio making E-Day as would have been making Gears 6, and there is no other reasonable motive for making E-Day instead of Gears 6 other than wanting to put the game on the PlayStation, and having a fresh start in the process...

Re: Xbox's Gears of War: E-Day Seemingly in Development for PS5

Fiendish-Beaver

The whole reason E-Day exists, and not Gears 6, @nomither6, is because they want to bring E-Day to the PlayStation. Making Gears 6 first (and thus finishing that particular trilogy for the loyal Gears of War fans on the Xbox) would have meant that much more work was required if they had wanted to bring it to the PlayStation, as they would have needed to port 4 and 5 first as just bringing over 6 would have made no sense to the PlayStation gamer.

Thus, starting with a game that is a prequel is the easiest thing for Microsoft to do. It matters not that they are shafting the Xbox gamer in the process because it is on the PlayStation where they will get the most sales...

Re: Xbox's Phil Spencer 'Not Retiring' After Dark Day of Cancellations and Job Cuts

Fiendish-Beaver

Absolutely wrong, @Flaming_Kaiser!

Here is the scenario for you:

You do an interview and you are asked is Starfield being released on the PlayStation. At that time, you know with certainty that there are no plans to release it because you are the boss at Xbox, so you say no, which is the truth.

A week later, your boss at Microsoft tells you to release Starfield on the PlayStation, and so you do as you have been instructed because that is how management works; form top down.

That does not mean that you lied, because you didn't, you told the truth. What it means is that circumstances beyond your control change. When someone like Spencer is asked a question where he is uncertain, or where he has a suspicion that something will happen but is as yet unsure, or, of course, he simply doesn't want to reveal the answer just yet, we get these non-answers that really don't answer the question. It's something we politicians do all the time. Thus, when Spencer says, no, when asked if Starfield is going to release on the PlayStation, it's because he knows that it isn't going to. If he knew it was, or suspected that it would, or did not want to tell us, he would have dodged the question.

If we all resigned the moment when our bosses told us to do something that we disagreed with, or which countermanded what we had told others, then no one would be in post for very long!

Re: PS5 Horror Cronos Could Be the Next Dead Space, New Footage Reveals

Fiendish-Beaver

Am I the only one to find the way the writers use the word PS5 in the title of their articles in a way that makes it seem as if it is an exclusive? It's obvious that it's coming to the PS5 by virtue of there being an article at all, the inclusion of PS5 is completely unnecessary. To be fair, it's not just Push that does it, as Pure does it sometimes too. It just feels really unnecessary...

Re: Xbox Backtracks on $80 Price Tag for The Outer Worlds 2 Following Public Outcry

Fiendish-Beaver

Quite right too. Of all the games to try and charge £80 for, this was not it, and I say that as someone that really enjoyed the first game and is really looking forward to its sequel.

I think that Microsoft attempted to hide behind 'Market Conditions', and all the tariff rises, but now the dust has settled on that a bit, and after what has probably been lacklustre pre-orders, they have seen that £80 won't fly (at least not for this particular title). And of course, another factor will have been that their main competitor (Sony) have not followed suit in pricing games at £80, meaning Microsoft look terrible in comparison.....

Re: 'I Much Prefer PS Plus' Lifecycle Management Strategy': Devs Chime in on Xbox Game Pass Impact

Fiendish-Beaver

As for Game Pass, @EfYI, there is a service on the PlayStation too, you know! Yes, Game Pass is better value than the PlayStation version, but that is just a matter of opinion. Of course, Game Pass is not an exclusive club, and you are free to join it if you wish. The decision not too is yours and yours alone, just as it is mine to have Game Pass (albeit I don't ever use it, but that is another matter). Add to this that most of the third-party games on Game Pass are also on the Sony service, and the only difference between the two is the addition of Xbox first-party games.

What I will say though, and I have said this a number of times elsewhere, I do not believe that Game Pass will continue in its current guise beyond 2030. By then I think that Game Pass will become a first-party only service much like EA's or Ubisoft's. When it does that, you can expect it to be on the PlayStation too because it is only the addition of third-party games that Sony objects to.

It is my belief that Game Pass (and the ABK acquisition) has killed Xbox because Nadella is chasing the money and doing so by putting what should be exclusives on the PlayStation. This act of self-harm means that fewer and fewer people are buying an Xbox, and come the next generation that will become ever more stark, and I believe that Microsoft will withdraw from the console market at around 2030.

So, as much as you maybe envious of Game Pass, for some reason, it will almost certainly contribute to the death of Xbox as a competitor console, although I have no doubt that Microsoft will have a very successful future when they go the full publisher route...

Re: 'I Much Prefer PS Plus' Lifecycle Management Strategy': Devs Chime in on Xbox Game Pass Impact

Fiendish-Beaver

I would put money on it that there will be plenty of games on the PlayStation Store that are 90% or more off, @EfYI. I just don't have the time or willingness to go through every single game that is currently on sale.

And just for the record, in that list you linked, there was only ONE game that was 95% off, and only ONE game that was 92% off. All the others were 90% off, so not the 50 that are 95% off as you claim.

What you are doing is just accepting that no games are more than 80% off on the PlayStation Store because Push Square hasn't told you there are, and that is despite the fact that I have already shown you that some games are 90% off on the PlayStation Store, and that the one game that is 92% off on the Xbox is exactly the same price on the PS Store.

Lastly, you do realise that we are talking pennies difference, for the most part, a couple of quid at the most where games have different prices. The one game that is 95% off on the Xbox is only £3 cheaper than on the PlayStation.

I will bet my mortgage that you will save more than £3 on a number of the additional 1000 games that are on sale on the PlayStation, but NOT on sale on the Xbox. For some reason, you seem to be ignoring that far more games are on sale on the PlayStation than on the Xbox. 1000+ more. You keep talking about evidence as if you have found something significant, yet are ignoring the evidence that does not suit your claim...

Re: 'I Much Prefer PS Plus' Lifecycle Management Strategy': Devs Chime in on Xbox Game Pass Impact

Fiendish-Beaver

So, you're right, @EfYI, and I'm wrong. Is that it...? It doesn't matter that we can see games being 92% off, or that they cost exactly the same on both the Xbox or the PlayStation, somehow Xbox has it better? What about the 1000+ games that are being sold more cheaply on the PlayStation right now, than they can be found on the Xbox? Is it still the case that Xbox gets it better somehow? I don't understand what you are getting at...

Re: 'I Much Prefer PS Plus' Lifecycle Management Strategy': Devs Chime in on Xbox Game Pass Impact

Fiendish-Beaver

95 per cent is much more than PS' maximum of 80 per cent.

That's simply incorrect, @EfYI. First off, not all the games are currently on sale on both platforms, meaning it is impossible to do direct comparisons for all titles. Secondly, whilst I haven't checked all the games on the list, of those I have, the pricing is the same on both the Xbox and the PlayStation. This Destiny Lightfall is 92% off on both platforms, and Back4 Blood: Ultimate Edition is 90% off on both platforms. So your premise of games not being reduced by more that 80% is completely untrue, it's more likely the case that they just point it out more effectively on Pure Xbox than they do on Push Square.

I will accept the Battlefield 2042 is currently cheaper on the Xbox than on the PlayStation in that it is £2.99 on the Xbox, and £5.99 on the PlayStation right now, but that is only right now. It may well be (or have been) cheaper on the PlayStation at some other point in time.

Indeed, there are a few games on the Xbox that are on sale right now, but that are not on sale right now on the PlayStation. However, that is not evidence of any Xbox bias. It is simply a case of a game being on sale on one platform, but not on the other. That could be reversed next week, for all we know.

Also, there are currently 1856 games on sale on the Xbox Store, and more that 2800 games on sale on the PlayStation RIGHT NOW!

So tell me again how Xbox has it better...

Re: The Last of Us TV Show Team Split on One More Season or Two

Fiendish-Beaver

If they went with 2 more seasons, the producers might hope that Bella Ramsey might look slightly older come the end!

I've said it a number of times, but Bella was miscast, and it should have been realised from the outset. Bella has one of those perpetually young faces. She'll look like she's in her 20s when she's in her 40s! I also don't think she has much range in her acting either, but that's another matter.

Also Kaitlyn Dever is wrong for Abby. Abby gains a whole lot of muscle come the time jump. In the series, there was no change, which for me changes how things play out. Now you're just going to see two petite, slightly built ladies knocking ten bells out of one another.

Ironically, I think Dever would have made a superb Ellie, but who they could have had for Abby post time jump, I don't know, because there are probably few actresses who would have wanted to put on a significant amount of muscle for the role...

Re: Xbox's Phil Spencer 'Not Retiring' After Dark Day of Cancellations and Job Cuts

Fiendish-Beaver

I don't agree about Spencer, @Flaming_Kaiser. People keep saying he is lying because he says one thing and then does another, without taking into consideration that he may say what is initially the plan only for Nadella to change the plan and therefore Spencer has to do something other than he initially said.

I don't agree that Spencer should resign. Why should the messenger be the one that has to lose his job? I'm sure that Spencer is unhappy. He looks miserable. However, he may also feel that he is the best one to deliver this new directive. He may feel that it is better that he takes the heat rather than take the cowards way out and quit.

We don't know the truth of it, and maybe never will as I am sure that Spencer has had to sign a few NDA's in his time. However, just as we don't know the truth of it, we also do not know with any certainty that he is lying. He may well be doing so, but I suspect that Nadella keeps pulling the rug from beneath him, which is why we didn't see Spencer for months, and why we so rarely see him now...

Re: 'I Much Prefer PS Plus' Lifecycle Management Strategy': Devs Chime in on Xbox Game Pass Impact

Fiendish-Beaver

I don't think it was a hostile statement, @Questionable_Duck. Just a statement of fact. If you do not buy games, and only play via Game Pass, then the developers are not getting a great deal of money out of you, and thus when their profits are down, studios suffer.

I even said that Game Pass is a great deal, right now. So I was not blaming anyone for only partaking in Game Pass, just saying that it does not help the industry.

As for Steam, I view Steam sales and sales on the PlayStation and Xbox is the same light; it is better that a game is sold cheaply, than not at all, though it is still better to pay full price in order that a studio can maximise their profits.

Do I say the same to Steam users? Not yet. However, once Microsoft make the foolhardy decision to include Steam on their console, then, if Pure Xbox becomes a Steam associate, then maybe I will have chance to speak with them, but right now I have no need.

Lastly, Dring didn't fully retract what he said, he said it was profitable once the sales of first-party games were included. The key part there is 'sales', as clearly that means people actually buying the games, which makes no sense whatsoever, because either the Service is profitable on it's own, or it is being propped up by sales outside the Service. What Dring has just said contradicts itself. He is basically saying without those outside sales, the Service would not be profitable. Go figure!

Regardless, profitability, and sustainability are two difference things. Just because the Service makes a profit one year, does not mean it is enough to keep going, and if the Service is shedding subscribers then it becomes increasingly difficult to sustain without either raising prices (which in turn leads to people quitting the Service) or changes, such as we saw last year with the creation of the top tier. Maybe the next thing we will see is 12 months before a first-party game enters the Service, who knows, but I cannot see it continuing as is.

Do I believe Dring? No idea. My opinions are my own derived from various sources, and indeed speculation. However, if I am wrong, then the Service will thrive, unchanged into the 2030's. If I am right, then Game Pass as is will be nowt but a memory by 2030...

Re: 'I Much Prefer PS Plus' Lifecycle Management Strategy': Devs Chime in on Xbox Game Pass Impact

Fiendish-Beaver

Let me start off by saying that I do not think Game Pass is sustainable, @EfYI, and I think it is killing Xbox, which means, I think, that we essentially agree with one another on that.

However, where I do completely disagree with you, and indeed, I would suggest you are flat out incorrect, is that the deals are better on the Xbox Store than on the PlayStation Store, or that the deals offered on Pure Xbox are any better than those on Push Square. Show me the proof of that, please?

I'd also argue, regarding you 'babied' comment, that Xbox is not behaving particularly well towards those that game on an Xbox when you take into consideration that they have risen the prices of consoles, peripherals, and games (albeit the games have risen everywhere). That's hardly Xbox treating their consumers like babies, is it?

I'm sorry to tell you, but your comment smacks heavily of fanboyism...

Re: 'I Much Prefer PS Plus' Lifecycle Management Strategy': Devs Weigh in on Crippling Xbox Game Pass Impact

Fiendish-Beaver

That's how I think they will do it, @OldGamer999. Much like the Series consoles, which Microsoft no longer seem to be stocking in many parts of the world, I think that Microsoft will cease to sell Game Pass, and that they will allow each subscriber to see out their remaining subscription.

I do think they will keep putting their first-party games on the service because people signed up to Game Pass, partly to play those day one releases on the Service, and so to suddenly say they won't be doing that would open them up to a Class Action case, which they would likely lose, and would cost them billions.

If Microsoft are to end the service within the next 5 years, then I think the next one or two years will be the telling ones, because for Microsoft to go about ending Game Pass in this manner, and with people having stacked up to 3 years then they need to be ending it in the relatively near future.

The problem with this idea though, is that how are Microsoft going to attract third-party developers to the service over the last few years, if they have publicly said they are ending it? This is why I think it is such a conundrum from Microsoft. It is all well and good saying that they are going to selling Game Pass, and stop people from signing up, but once they do that, and the subscriber numbers start to dwindle, what developer is going to want to put their game on the service then?

It's a real problem, and truthfully, I'm not sure Microsoft know how to solve it...

Re: 'I Much Prefer PS Plus' Lifecycle Management Strategy': Devs Weigh in on Crippling Xbox Game Pass Impact

Fiendish-Beaver

I agree with you, @Ricky-Spanish, that if you are a heavy Game Pass consumer, then you are absolutely having a blast right now. However, if that is all you do, and you do not support the game industry in any other way, then you are part of the problem. Effectively, you are directly responsible for the studio closures and job losses.

Saying I don't care because I am having the time of my life on Game Pass is the equivalent of throwing as many plastic bottles into the sea as you possibly can whilst saying you don't care about the environment, and then standing back to watch the world around you burn! Ultimately, you will be affected by your actions at some point... 😉

Re: 'I Much Prefer PS Plus' Lifecycle Management Strategy': Devs Weigh in on Crippling Xbox Game Pass Impact

Fiendish-Beaver

I've been saying for years that I don't think that Game Pass is sustainable. The only reason that Microsoft are releasing their games on PlayStation is because they are not making enough money on their own platform (and PC, where of course Game Pass is available and growing). If Game Pass was not canalising sales, then Xbox would still have exclusive games.

I have said many times that within the next 5 years that Game Pass will be gone, or at the very least fundamentally changed to a first-party only service (which may then allow it to be made available on the PlayStation).

Personally, I think Microsoft want to stop the service now, but are uncertain how to navigate the issue of people having stacked years of the service. I mean, if Microsoft decide to stop the service, they would likely have to refund all those stacked months, which would probably cost them billions.

Ultimately, I think that Game Pass will cease within the next 5 years, and Microsoft will withdraw from the console market around the same time...

Re: PS5 Fans Divided Over Helldivers 2 on Xbox Pivot

Fiendish-Beaver

Ultimately, unless we honestly think that no third-party game sells on the Xbox, then Helldivers 2 should still sell pretty well. The vast, vast majority of third-party games do not go on to the Game Pass, and are instead purchased, so Helldivers 2 should be no different. Obviously, out of the three platforms that it will have released on (PC/PS5 and Xbox), Xbox will be a distant third partly due to Game Pass, but mainly because it has the smallest install-base, and there being many, many more people that game on PC (estimated to be around 1.86 billion) and the PS5 (around 60 million). The Xbox Series consoles only has around 27 million users, so if a similar percentage of gamers buy it on each of the three platforms, then Xbox is always going to come in third.

All that said, there will also be an element of 'that ship has sailed' coming into effect when it releases on the Xbox because the hype has died down for Helldivers 2. The truth is that for the game to have had the utmost chance, it should have released everywhere that it was ever going to release everywhere at the same time. Staggered releases never do as well, and so when everyone looks at how Helldivers 2 performs on the Xbox, this is something that should be taken into account...

Re: Xbox's Promising MMORPG Sounds Like the Most Baffling Cancellation

Fiendish-Beaver

I get what you are saying, @Medic_alert. I really do. And I agree! However, it isn't just Microsoft that are doing this. Remember that Sony are also cancelling games left and right. There have been many just this generation, including 10 different live-service games. It's a problem right across the industry, just look at Ubisoft, for example. It comes down to the lengthy development times we are seeing these days, and also the often unreasonable expectations of just how much profits a game should make...

Re: Xbox's Promising MMORPG Sounds Like the Most Baffling Cancellation

Fiendish-Beaver

The problem with each of the games that were cancelled is the time they have already had in development. So if a game has already had 7 years in the oven, and won't be out for another 3, we're talking 10 years in development. That's way, way too long. Remember, for each of those years, the staff are being paid, the energy bills are being paid, the office space is costing money.

It needs to be remembered that we used to get 2 or even 3 games from a developer in a single generation, we are sometimes not even getting one. In the case of this particular game, it started development during the Xbox One era, and was going to entirely skip the Series generation. It would have released on the next platform in 2028.

Ultimately what has happened here is that Microsoft Gaming have told Spencer that these, and other games also long in development such as State of Decay 3 and Fable, are taking much too long to develop, and costing way too much money. The bean-counters at Microsoft have, via Nadella, told Spencer that he needs to make cuts. He has to choose what goes, but games have to be cancelled. Thus likely as not, Spencer has cancelled those games deemed most risky, most unlikely to recoup the cost of development, and those that are the furthest from releasing. Some of the games cancelled may have fallen foul of each of those potential reasons. I think given the choice, Spencer would not have cancelled any of these projects because he has often spoken about given developers the time that they need. Unfortunately for him, the oversight from Nadella is such that that is not a luxury he can afford those that develop games at Xbox any longer...

Re: Romero Games Appears to Have Closed as Xbox Layoffs Cast Dark Shadow Over Industry

Fiendish-Beaver

We can only go by what the media and other sources are saying, @DonkeyFantasy, because like you, I am privy to the full details. However, the fact that Nadella has taken a keen interest in what is happening is well documented. And, of course, you only need to look at Nadella's previous history and the way he has behaved, to see that he has splashed his DNA all over this...

Re: Romero Games Appears to Have Closed as Xbox Layoffs Cast Dark Shadow Over Industry

Fiendish-Beaver

And what if he was totally blind-sided, @Titntin? And what if he truly believes that he is the only person capable of standing between Nadella and Xbox? How does him resigning help Xbox if that is the case?

I've had bosses make totally nonsensical decision in the past, and tell me to get on with it, even though I have known that they won't work, or won't work and will make things worse. Was I supposed to resign then, or just do my job, which meant doing as I was told regardless of how much worse the position was made?

I'd argue it takes more guts and integrity to remain in post and attempt to right the sinking ship than it would to take the easy option and resign. It takes a lot to remain in post where everyone is blaming you, even when it's not your fault, and attempt to set that ship afloat even as your boss is doing everything in his power to scuttle it...