Congrats to ND. I personally disagree that it's the best game this year, but it's undoubtedly a peculiar experience that tries a few new things, and clearly it resonated with a lot of people.
Funny though that everyone is talking about those pesky moaners but there's none to be found π
@get2sammyb so let me get this straight: my comment where I call the obvious troll literally "trash", not even a cuss word, for calling another user "poor" and shaming him gets deleted, but the obvious troll is still here spouting nonsense and bothering everyone?! The ****?!
I applaud you for being so collected. Every time I see this crap I get mad, then I see people defending it and start to fume. How people can be so stupid is beyond me. Thanks for explaining it in a clearer, more collected way.
@jmac1686 see, it's people like you who don't consider the consequences who make it worse for everyone else.
Just because you have 10$ to burn, doesn't mean you have to encourage companies to make games with broken economies in order to make people buy experience or grind endlessly.
"But it's optional!" NO, FOR PETE'S SAKE, IT'S NOT! Do you not realize that you have to throw all the game's economies put of whack to make this work? Basically you're encouraging companies to make it a grind for everyone else just because you have an extra 10$ and don't recognize good design from a scam.
Go on, encourage companies to suck your balance dry. I'm pretty sure that if we as a community were told 10 years ago that single player progression would be dictated by microtransactions we wouldn't have believed it. And yet here we are.
At this point, if you still buy these games at launch and get suckered by these practices, you're just part of the problem, you're just helping spread this toxin even further.
@Jayofmaya I see, awesome! To be honest at the moment I haven't had too much time to write melodies for it, so what I sent you is basically only the first 45 to 60 seconds lol
As soon as I have other ideas for the other sections I'll let you know! Also, if you have preferences on where to sing clean/unclean, or if you have vocal melodies in your head don't hesitate to tell me π
By the way, I was super hyped for this game but I feared it wouldn't be ready at launch.
I watched SkillUp's 52-minutes review and that pretty much answered all the questions I had, so yeah I'll be waiting for it to be patches and playable.
This game is something special, I don't wanna experience a half-assed version of it, so I'll jump in when the bugs are squished, the loot game and crafting are reworked, and the economy isn't completely broken.
@dark_knightmare2 dude I get defending the game if you like it, but saying it isn't divisive is pure BS and makes you look like an idiot. For Christ's sake, even ND themselves acknowledged that before release!
There's a difference between being ignorant and being willfully misleading, and I'm still on the fence on whether it's stupidity or malevolence, but I'd vouch for the former seeing how quickly you jump to dangerous conclusions about the political affiliations of people who may or may not like the game.
@Andy653 oh don't get me wrong, I know that and I absolutely agree! I was not talking about their financial side, I was talking about the players' perspective! I absolutely don't blame them for shifting to this kind of business as it makes sense financially, but I can't help but feel that they could do more with the resources they have. Hope it's clearer now π
@BowTiesAreCool well if you really ignored for such a little "debate", you must be pretty frail π― I had no ill will at all towards, I don't know why you had to blow it out of proportion.
By the way, if you really think I was talking about you in particular enjoying 2 games per decade without understanding I was talking in general, still think so after my explanation and even go on to use ignore for so little, well, I'm glad you did cause I don't want anything to do with such a thin-skinned crybaby who's only good at mocking others instead of getting their points π€·πΌββοΈ Some people really are incredible lol
@Nepp67 agreed! In general I personally prefer smaller, more dense handcrafted worlds than huge stretches of window dressing interspersed with copied and pasted outposts, like most Ubi games are for example.
@BowTiesAreCool dude maybe don't take everything so personally?
Point is: I'd rather see more than 2 games every 10 years from such a high-profile and once prolific dev/publisher. I mean, it's not exactly unreasonable to expect such a huge company to put out more than 2 games in a decade, especially looking at their track record.
In any case, why you had to make this about you in particular is beyond me, as if I made knew your gaming habits π
@BowTiesAreCool no need to mock. If you're ok with having only 2 games every 10 years, with basically only one receiving post-launch support, I'm genuinely glad for you. I for one, though, would very much like to be able to play more different games, instead of the same game for 7 years. Everything gets stale after a while.
Also, don't know why feel the need to defend a mega corporation resting on its laurels, when at its peak it was able to put out a game a year while keeping the quality bar pretty high.
@GodOfNothing indeed. It's embarrassing to think they're still updating this 2013 game 7 years later to be honest, especially considering they have only put out one game since and have barely supported that at all post-launch.
@ShogunRok hey Robert, sorry to bother you but I saw that the Other button is broken. What I mean by that is that I enter PC in the space given and when I submit it says my answer isn't valid. I also tried computer but it seems it just won't work.
@Arnna I totally agree on that! π That's why I'm not really fond of ND games and other similar titles, I prefer the story to be more organic even if that means being handled weirdly: see BOTW for example, they couldn't have implemented story and gameplay better, but of course those who sought a more traditional story were left disappointed. Not that I blame them, mind you! I personally liked the approach, but I get why another wouldn't. What is indisputable, though, is that it works perfectly for the game it wants to be.
To be honest I think (or at least hope) that this problem will fade away with time, as video games are still in their infancy now, compared to any other medium. It's natural for any medium to take time before everyone gets its full potential, let's hope it happens someday π
I think the reason is pretty clear: usually AAA games are not hyped around their stories and storytelling, while this game clearly was, being made by ND and being the sequel to what is unanimously accepted as one of the most well-realized narratives in gaming history. It's really as simple as that π
On the topic pf David Cage games, I've never played any because nothing about that style of game appeals to me personally, and yes, the few examples I've seen does not exactly inspire confidence in the writing π In any case, I obviously can't comment about those.
And lastly, I strongly disagree with your conclusion that the medium is to blame. The medium never is to blame. It's about how you use and for what, and that's the reason why adapting any one medium into another is a very tall order to pull off well.
If you wanna experience a story that really can only be told in video game form, play Nier: Automata. That's one of the very few games I know that couldn't be transposed to any other medium, and it's all better for it! Actually, it's definitely one of the best games ever created, simply on the basis that every single one of the multitudes of moving parts is interwoven in an incredibly masterful way that I've rarely seen elsewhere, in any medium. But hey, if it looks like it's not for you at a quick glance I totally get it, it's very good at masking how deep it actually is ahahahah
@Sam-Bridges you're more than welcome mate, thank you for the constructive discussion π
On the topic of the analyses, yeah, I do get the frustration with many thinkpieces on the subject because it being so divisive made it very easy for people to villainize things, as you rightly pointed out. Thus, recognizing the level-headed critiques among the shouting contest that was going on at the time was certainly difficult. Luckily for me, though, I've found several creators I trust to make well-balanced and nuanced content, and thus I already know where to look when I want a second opinion.
That said, have a good one! Hope to see you around soon π
-last but not the least, the dreaded words: LUDONARRATIVE DISSONANCE lol I said it so dramatically cause I know how hard is to be taken seriously nowadays with that subject ahahahha
No but seriously: the first game was about protecting Ellie due to the almost paternal bond that forms between Joel (the player) and Ellie, and it followed through as a linear 3rd person shooter where you have to survive in terrible comditions and taking hard choices to protect your life and that of those you love. Perfect fit.
Part 2, on the other hand, wants do bad to be a w***ing session on the gravitas of killing innocent, named NPC's and how wrong vengeance is. Was Part 1's ending not enough moral ambiguity for all this? I mean, who killed those doctors and didn't feel remorse for that? Of course Ellie is a huge motivation, but that's exactly why doing horrible stuff to protect her is so powerful in that game. Part 2 is a hollow husk, it's got nothing to say. It's the edgiest thing I've ever seen, which is why I'm so disappointed it is considered even close to the first game, when it basically squandered all the potential and power that that game had.
I'm gonna conclude here cause I've been typing for 20 minutes straight ahahahah
If you're interested in this discussion, though, I would asvise you to look for analyses on YT; I've found a lot good videos in there, both agreeing and disagreeing with my points. I've listened to both sides of the argument and came away with this opinion, but of course it might be different for you. That why I'd advise you to look those videos up, because you shouldn't trust only one source, and those people are way more knowledgeable than me on the matter π Have a good one, my friend, hope I satisfied your curiosity π
@Sam-Bridges yes, of course! I'd love to discuss the subject, since you were very kind and respectful π
I of course don't wanna put myself on a pedestal as some kind of authority, I just wanted to give my 2 cents as someone who's passionate about writing and, as such, has a basic knowledge that the vast majority of people don't, but that of course doesn't make me a professor lol I've only been studying for 5 years or so, so I definitely have a loooot left to learn and practice.
That said, I never wanted to mean this as "I'm a better writer than Druckmann" or whatever, absolutely. It's just that my formation lets me see flaws where an uneducated person probably wouldn't, just like I will miss the photography, lighting and blocking of a movie, while a crew member sees right through that. So, disclaimers aside (and I guess you understand why I'm so cautious with this subject lol), I'll sum up my major problems with it, although I might forget some:
-on the topic of Abby: it's clear that she was meant to create conflict inside the players, but the execution in my opinion is just terrible. You can't have one half where she's the devil incarnate and then a second half where we're menat to empathize for her "because dog". Seriously, that dog thing is one of the worst and most manipulative sequences I've ever seen in a game. It's really low in writing terms, and that is one thing I've never seen anyone defend cause it's just poor writing.
-the characters I find all incredibly unlikely or just uninteresting. I never got attached to anyone in Part 2, and I guess that was hard to fudge seeing as it was the biggest strength of the first game. Their motivations also are not really strong to be honest, but I don't wanna delve into each of them cause it's already a long-a** post (lol), and months have passed, so my memory's not gonna keep everything at the ready.
@Col_McCafferty you're kidding right?
You wrote this, not me:
"First ND game without a straight white male as the lead and they can now go to hell or something."
I just called you out for that and for explicitly saying that anyone who doesn't like the game is either "nuts", or has "terrible taste", and I'm the arrogant one? π
Thanks for the laugh π
I even went as far as to show that I could've taken the higher ground and shown you that my opinion is more nuanced than yours through my knowledge of narrative writing, but no, I simply told you that I accept your opinion.
I did that in order to avoid this whole thing, but ok, I'm the arrogant one.
God people never cease to amaze me π
@starbuck2212 thanks π @kyleforrester87 dude c'mon already, the world is in shambles while we're waiting for you to give us the worldwide ultimate universally unanimous verdict! π
@Col_McCafferty lol, it's funny how you came in as a defender of the game only to then discredit anyone who might not like the game π I mean, they're obviously wrong and have terrible taste, right? I mean, I could tell you that you obviously don't know the first thing about writing if you can't see the glaring issues in the story, but no, I'll just accept the fact that you like the story and I don't.
Your comment is honestly very disgusting and dangerous. By putting yourself on a pedestal and implying that those who don't like the game are "nuts", or even mysoginistic, you're distorting reality to suit your narrative, which is always dangerous. Be careful with the words that you choose, buddy, you're just making things worse.
@naruball I see you haven't lost that fantastic habit you have of always and only attacking people, instead of their opinions. Are you gonna speak your mind too someday, or will you just keep cowering behind your personal attacks? It's very easy to attack others but never offer an opinion that could be attacked, isn't it?
@Juanalf I wanted to stay out of this, but since you're curious, I'll give you my take π
Personally I'm incredibly baffled by the praise that the game has received because, from a writing standpoint, it's just absurd.
-The structure doesn't make any sense;
-the flashbacks are meaningless to the plot and confusing at best, and manipulative at worst;
-the themes are as heavy handed and poorly managed as they can get;
-the overarching plot is incredibly contrived and held together by tape, and (probably worst of all) it drags endlessly.
Honestly I think a good way to discern who is just b***hurt from Joel's death from who is genuinely criticizing the writing is seeing how much emphasis they put on that event.
I was never a ND fanboy so I didn't take that as personally as many others: to be honest, Joel's death may be a bit contrived, but I think it's the best thing in the whole story.
It works wonders as an inciting incident, and since it's meant as the beginning, you can handwave a little bit of contrivance to get the plot started.
When you realize the contrivances haven't ended there, the story's already off the rails.
It has good ideas and themes, but to me the fact that the first game tackled those same themes much better without even trying is indicative of the overall quality of the writing of this sequel.
I mean, I'm not even a big fan of TLOU personally, but noone can deny that that game was well-written and had a pretty much perfect ending.
I've been passionate about writing, reading about it and studying it for years now, and trust me that I was in utter disbelief when it was confirmed that the leaks were right.
I honestly believed there wouldn't be a chance in hell they would structure the story like that, and that it was a stunt to hinder the game's success.
@Gremio108 especially if, like me, the one you have is 0. I almost don't want to enjoy it cause I don't know if I'll ever have the time and strength to power through 7/8 mammoth games like it π
I really hate this kind of cross promotion, but unfortunately that's not only the future, but the present too. From huge ads disguised as movies (e.g. the Transformers cinematic franchise), to every song being a collab cause "why do it alone when more people can get visibility from that one song?", to trendy trappers dictating fashion and lifestyle.
This is just another example of the homogenized, bland future we're heading in, where everyone likes the same four things cause they're the only things advertised, and advertising each other.
Heard from SkillUp that it's way more organic, dense, compact and plain fun than Valhalla in any way possible, which positively surprised me. The lack of features such as level gating, and the focus on organic exploration definitely caught me by surprise. I guess I'll get it used or on sale later next year if I have a fantasy open world itch to scratch.
Not that I had any interest, but I had totally forgot about this game! And while I do agree that the first impression is nothing to write home about, I mean, it's Swery π The man eats jank for breakfast, so I don't think it's gonna be more polished than that when it releases lol
@Jayofmaya dude Achromatic Minds is sick! Definitely very metal for my taste, but I like it nonetheless!
I got some vocal melodies (clean and unclean) in my head that I think would work well, I might record them and send them to you in the next few days if you'd like!
Just know that my timbre is way more post-hardcore high than death metal gravelly so maybe that's not to your liking lol π
Edit: Silent Vale is also interesting, I'd like to hear a full instrumental version if you happen to rerecord it one day π
@TG16_IS_BAE that's great, I like eclectic people π
Also I really like the saxophone, might hit you up for a future collaboration π
I've grown up listening mainly to pop punk and the likes, and then I grew more into prog rock, experimental rock, math rock jazz fusion, post-punk, post-hardcore, punk hardcore and some other heavier things, but unfortunately I've never been able to get into metal π
I like me some really heavy post-hardcore (something like Do It Again by Secret Band, for example), but for some reason I haven't found any of the myriad types of metal to do it for me βΉοΈ
Don't worry though, I get the feeling you and Jay will go along very well seeing your tastes π
In any case, I've also tried to broaden my taste as much as possible; for example, lately I've been trying to get into hip hop and so I started listening to Aesop Rock, since I found his lyrics to be several cuts above anything else I've encountered yet. I like him but I wouldn't consider myself a fan as of now, but maybe it'll change π
Edit: on the topic of Japanese music, I don't really like J-pop and J-rock, but I've found a treasure trove of jazz and funk artists over there! Some really amazing music!
@Jayofmaya thanks a lot mate! Looking forward to listening, this weekend I'll make sure to check everything out! I copied your contact, so if you feel more comfortable editing it out, by all means go ahead! To be fair I'm only just at the beginning and I'm quite confused lol Though luckily I already have a couple decent mics and also have access to some other material belonging to people close to me, so at least I don't have to spend unholy amounts of money right away and postpone some purchases to when I have more expertise in the field.
I'll make sure to check out your stuff tomorrow or the day after and I'll let you know! Have a good one π
@Jayofmaya hey mate, always a pleasure seeing you around π Well, if you don't mind, I'll gladly listen to any and all songs you have in store, link away! π It's unfortunate there's no DM'ing here, otherwise I'd give you my email account or something.
By the way I've decided to dedicate some of my spare time going forward trying to learn how to mix and master stuff, since I've always relied on others for that and I'd like to be able to manage my projects more independently, which means we could very well exchange recordings, and I could even contribute some vocals if need be π
@TG16_IS_BAE ah I see, thanks for the explanation! What instruments do you play? And what kind of music do you enjoy the most? π
I'm very passionate about music and also play a couple instruments (not really that well though ahahah), but unfortunately I've never received any musical education, aside from a period of studying singing privately with a classically trained singer. I've studied some theory in my free time over the course of the years, but I wouldn't absolutely regard myself as an expert on theory and such π
Comments 1,225
Re: The Last of Us 2 Dominates Biggest Ever PS Blog Game of the Year Poll
Congrats to ND.
I personally disagree that it's the best game this year, but it's undoubtedly a peculiar experience that tries a few new things, and clearly it resonated with a lot of people.
Funny though that everyone is talking about those pesky moaners but there's none to be found π
Re: Ubisoft Shoves XP Boosting Microtransaction into Assassin's Creed Valhalla a Month After Launch
@get2sammyb so let me get this straight: my comment where I call the obvious troll literally "trash", not even a cuss word, for calling another user "poor" and shaming him gets deleted, but the obvious troll is still here spouting nonsense and bothering everyone?! The ****?!
Re: Ubisoft Shoves XP Boosting Microtransaction into Assassin's Creed Valhalla a Month After Launch
@johncalmc ππ»ππ»ππ»
I applaud you for being so collected.
Every time I see this crap I get mad, then I see people defending it and start to fume. How people can be so stupid is beyond me.
Thanks for explaining it in a clearer, more collected way.
Re: Ubisoft Shoves XP Boosting Microtransaction into Assassin's Creed Valhalla a Month After Launch
@jmac1686 see, it's people like you who don't consider the consequences who make it worse for everyone else.
Just because you have 10$ to burn, doesn't mean you have to encourage companies to make games with broken economies in order to make people buy experience or grind endlessly.
"But it's optional!"
NO, FOR PETE'S SAKE, IT'S NOT!
Do you not realize that you have to throw all the game's economies put of whack to make this work?
Basically you're encouraging companies to make it a grind for everyone else just because you have an extra 10$ and don't recognize good design from a scam.
Go on, encourage companies to suck your balance dry.
I'm pretty sure that if we as a community were told 10 years ago that single player progression would be dictated by microtransactions we wouldn't have believed it.
And yet here we are.
Re: Ubisoft Shoves XP Boosting Microtransaction into Assassin's Creed Valhalla a Month After Launch
QuΓ©lle surprise.
It's not like the huge grind of the game was indicative of this, no of course.
At this point, if you still buy these games at launch and get suckered by these practices, you're just part of the problem, you're just helping spread this toxin even further.
No, scratch that - if you buy these games at all.
Re: Humanity Has Been Delayed to 2021
Best headline ever ππ»
Re: Deal: Immortals Fenyx Rising Discounted in UK Two Weeks After Launch
Why they even bother with full price at this point is beyond me lol
Re: NieR Replicant Gets Short But Sweet PS4 Gameplay Trailer
@Jayofmaya I see, awesome! To be honest at the moment I haven't had too much time to write melodies for it, so what I sent you is basically only the first 45 to 60 seconds lol
As soon as I have other ideas for the other sections I'll let you know!
Also, if you have preferences on where to sing clean/unclean, or if you have vocal melodies in your head don't hesitate to tell me π
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4) - The Potential of a Masterpiece, Totally and Utterly Unrealised
By the way, I was super hyped for this game but I feared it wouldn't be ready at launch.
I watched SkillUp's 52-minutes review and that pretty much answered all the questions I had, so yeah I'll be waiting for it to be patches and playable.
This game is something special, I don't wanna experience a half-assed version of it, so I'll jump in when the bugs are squished, the loot game and crafting are reworked, and the economy isn't completely broken.
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4) - The Potential of a Masterpiece, Totally and Utterly Unrealised
Very fair and balanced review.
Hats off, @ShogunRok, it must've been soul-crushingly hard to review this game and properly explain the state it's in!
Re: All the Winners at The Game Awards 2020
Why did Among Us win? Wasn't it released in 2018?
Also, Best Narrative and Best Direction are incredibly ironic lol π
Re: Talking Point: Did The Game Awards 2020 Meet Your Expectations?
@dark_knightmare2 dude I get defending the game if you like it, but saying it isn't divisive is pure BS and makes you look like an idiot.
For Christ's sake, even ND themselves acknowledged that before release!
There's a difference between being ignorant and being willfully misleading, and I'm still on the fence on whether it's stupidity or malevolence, but I'd vouch for the former seeing how quickly you jump to dangerous conclusions about the political affiliations of people who may or may not like the game.
Re: NieR Replicant Gets Short But Sweet PS4 Gameplay Trailer
@Jayofmaya hey Jay, how are you?
I sent you an email with some tentative, unrehearsed ideas for you to check out, let me know! π
Re: NieR Replicant Gets Short But Sweet PS4 Gameplay Trailer
Yeah I'll join the choir π
Automata has jumped to the top of my favorite games ever after completing it, so I'm looking forward to this one!
Re: GTA Online Teases Biggest Ever Update in New Trailer, Designed for One to Four Players
@Andy653 oh don't get me wrong, I know that and I absolutely agree!
I was not talking about their financial side, I was talking about the players' perspective!
I absolutely don't blame them for shifting to this kind of business as it makes sense financially, but I can't help but feel that they could do more with the resources they have.
Hope it's clearer now π
Re: GTA Online Teases Biggest Ever Update in New Trailer, Designed for One to Four Players
@BowTiesAreCool well if you really ignored for such a little "debate", you must be pretty frail π―
I had no ill will at all towards, I don't know why you had to blow it out of proportion.
By the way, if you really think I was talking about you in particular enjoying 2 games per decade without understanding I was talking in general, still think so after my explanation and even go on to use ignore for so little, well, I'm glad you did cause I don't want anything to do with such a thin-skinned crybaby who's only good at mocking others instead of getting their points π€·πΌββοΈ
Some people really are incredible lol
Re: GTA Online Teases Biggest Ever Update in New Trailer, Designed for One to Four Players
@Nepp67 agreed!
In general I personally prefer smaller, more dense handcrafted worlds than huge stretches of window dressing interspersed with copied and pasted outposts, like most Ubi games are for example.
Re: GTA Online Teases Biggest Ever Update in New Trailer, Designed for One to Four Players
@BowTiesAreCool dude maybe don't take everything so personally?
Point is: I'd rather see more than 2 games every 10 years from such a high-profile and once prolific dev/publisher.
I mean, it's not exactly unreasonable to expect such a huge company to put out more than 2 games in a decade, especially looking at their track record.
In any case, why you had to make this about you in particular is beyond me, as if I made knew your gaming habits π
Re: Poll: Are You Buying Cyberpunk 2077?
@ShogunRok I didn't know who to refer to so I thought I'd ask you, since you wrote the article π
Thank you!
Re: GTA Online Teases Biggest Ever Update in New Trailer, Designed for One to Four Players
@BowTiesAreCool no need to mock.
If you're ok with having only 2 games every 10 years, with basically only one receiving post-launch support, I'm genuinely glad for you.
I for one, though, would very much like to be able to play more different games, instead of the same game for 7 years. Everything gets stale after a while.
Also, don't know why feel the need to defend a mega corporation resting on its laurels, when at its peak it was able to put out a game a year while keeping the quality bar pretty high.
Re: GTA Online Teases Biggest Ever Update in New Trailer, Designed for One to Four Players
@GodOfNothing indeed. It's embarrassing to think they're still updating this 2013 game 7 years later to be honest, especially considering they have only put out one game since and have barely supported that at all post-launch.
Re: Poll: Are You Buying Cyberpunk 2077?
@ShogunRok hey Robert, sorry to bother you but I saw that the Other button is broken. What I mean by that is that I enter PC in the space given and when I submit it says my answer isn't valid. I also tried computer but it seems it just won't work.
Re: Soapbox: Help! I Spent Money on Ultimate Team, and I'm Afraid I'll Do It Again
@Stocksy @thefourfoldroot @get2sammyb plus the album didn't cost 70β¬.
Re: Soapbox: Help! I Spent Money on Ultimate Team, and I'm Afraid I'll Do It Again
Spending 20β¬ on a digital sticker pack in a scummy mode of a 60/70β¬ game is just insane.
I didn't even know prices were that high. Urgh.
Re: GTA Online Is Getting an Underground Nightclub You Can Party At
So is it becoming Fortnite 2 with the concerts and all?
Re: Neil Druckmann to Continue Writing and Directing at Naughty Dog as Co-President
@Arnna I totally agree on that! π
That's why I'm not really fond of ND games and other similar titles, I prefer the story to be more organic even if that means being handled weirdly: see BOTW for example, they couldn't have implemented story and gameplay better, but of course those who sought a more traditional story were left disappointed. Not that I blame them, mind you! I personally liked the approach, but I get why another wouldn't. What is indisputable, though, is that it works perfectly for the game it wants to be.
To be honest I think (or at least hope) that this problem will fade away with time, as video games are still in their infancy now, compared to any other medium.
It's natural for any medium to take time before everyone gets its full potential, let's hope it happens someday π
Re: Neil Druckmann to Continue Writing and Directing at Naughty Dog as Co-President
@Arnna yes, of course I do π
I think the reason is pretty clear: usually AAA games are not hyped around their stories and storytelling, while this game clearly was, being made by ND and being the sequel to what is unanimously accepted as one of the most well-realized narratives in gaming history.
It's really as simple as that π
On the topic pf David Cage games, I've never played any because nothing about that style of game appeals to me personally, and yes, the few examples I've seen does not exactly inspire confidence in the writing π
In any case, I obviously can't comment about those.
And lastly, I strongly disagree with your conclusion that the medium is to blame.
The medium never is to blame.
It's about how you use and for what, and that's the reason why adapting any one medium into another is a very tall order to pull off well.
If you wanna experience a story that really can only be told in video game form, play Nier: Automata. That's one of the very few games I know that couldn't be transposed to any other medium, and it's all better for it!
Actually, it's definitely one of the best games ever created, simply on the basis that every single one of the multitudes of moving parts is interwoven in an incredibly masterful way that I've rarely seen elsewhere, in any medium.
But hey, if it looks like it's not for you at a quick glance I totally get it, it's very good at masking how deep it actually is ahahahah
Re: Neil Druckmann to Continue Writing and Directing at Naughty Dog as Co-President
@Sam-Bridges you're more than welcome mate, thank you for the constructive discussion π
On the topic of the analyses, yeah, I do get the frustration with many thinkpieces on the subject because it being so divisive made it very easy for people to villainize things, as you rightly pointed out.
Thus, recognizing the level-headed critiques among the shouting contest that was going on at the time was certainly difficult.
Luckily for me, though, I've found several creators I trust to make well-balanced and nuanced content, and thus I already know where to look when I want a second opinion.
That said, have a good one! Hope to see you around soon π
Re: Neil Druckmann to Continue Writing and Directing at Naughty Dog as Co-President
@Sam-Bridges PART 2
-last but not the least, the dreaded words: LUDONARRATIVE DISSONANCE lol
I said it so dramatically cause I know how hard is to be taken seriously nowadays with that subject ahahahha
No but seriously: the first game was about protecting Ellie due to the almost paternal bond that forms between Joel (the player) and Ellie, and it followed through as a linear 3rd person shooter where you have to survive in terrible comditions and taking hard choices to protect your life and that of those you love. Perfect fit.
Part 2, on the other hand, wants do bad to be a w***ing session on the gravitas of killing innocent, named NPC's and how wrong vengeance is.
Was Part 1's ending not enough moral ambiguity for all this? I mean, who killed those doctors and didn't feel remorse for that?
Of course Ellie is a huge motivation, but that's exactly why doing horrible stuff to protect her is so powerful in that game.
Part 2 is a hollow husk, it's got nothing to say. It's the edgiest thing I've ever seen, which is why I'm so disappointed it is considered even close to the first game, when it basically squandered all the potential and power that that game had.
I'm gonna conclude here cause I've been typing for 20 minutes straight ahahahah
If you're interested in this discussion, though, I would asvise you to look for analyses on YT; I've found a lot good videos in there, both agreeing and disagreeing with my points. I've listened to both sides of the argument and came away with this opinion, but of course it might be different for you.
That why I'd advise you to look those videos up, because you shouldn't trust only one source, and those people are way more knowledgeable than me on the matter π
Have a good one, my friend, hope I satisfied your curiosity π
Re: Neil Druckmann to Continue Writing and Directing at Naughty Dog as Co-President
@Sam-Bridges yes, of course! I'd love to discuss the subject, since you were very kind and respectful π
I of course don't wanna put myself on a pedestal as some kind of authority, I just wanted to give my 2 cents as someone who's passionate about writing and, as such, has a basic knowledge that the vast majority of people don't, but that of course doesn't make me a professor lol
I've only been studying for 5 years or so, so I definitely have a loooot left to learn and practice.
That said, I never wanted to mean this as "I'm a better writer than Druckmann" or whatever, absolutely.
It's just that my formation lets me see flaws where an uneducated person probably wouldn't, just like I will miss the photography, lighting and blocking of a movie, while a crew member sees right through that.
So, disclaimers aside (and I guess you understand why I'm so cautious with this subject lol), I'll sum up my major problems with it, although I might forget some:
-the structure. Boy is it awful. It has a lot of problems if you ask me, but the biggest is certainly how the pacing of the whole story collapses under the weight of this two-part structure.
Maybe you'll disagree, but I think that the pacing is all over the place during this game. Try to graph the rising and falling action, it's literally all over the place.
Aside from the fact that the plot is just point A to point B with little to no motivation or progression, the most glaring example of how the structure cripples the pacing is the midpoint (when Ellie and Abby meet). Problem is, that should've been the dΓ©nouement, not the midpoint.
So basically at that point in the story you've worked your way through it all, you're staring the final boss in the eye, and the game goes "oops, let's go back to the start and do this whole thing again, but this time with Abby! Yeeeeee!".
-on the topic of Abby: it's clear that she was meant to create conflict inside the players, but the execution in my opinion is just terrible.
You can't have one half where she's the devil incarnate and then a second half where we're menat to empathize for her "because dog".
Seriously, that dog thing is one of the worst and most manipulative sequences I've ever seen in a game. It's really low in writing terms, and that is one thing I've never seen anyone defend cause it's just poor writing.
-the characters I find all incredibly unlikely or just uninteresting. I never got attached to anyone in Part 2, and I guess that was hard to fudge seeing as it was the biggest strength of the first game.
Their motivations also are not really strong to be honest, but I don't wanna delve into each of them cause it's already a long-a** post (lol), and months have passed, so my memory's not gonna keep everything at the ready.
Re: Neil Druckmann to Continue Writing and Directing at Naughty Dog as Co-President
@kyleforrester87 πππ
Re: Neil Druckmann to Continue Writing and Directing at Naughty Dog as Co-President
@Col_McCafferty you're kidding right?
You wrote this, not me:
"First ND game without a straight white male as the lead and they can now go to hell or something."
I just called you out for that and for explicitly saying that anyone who doesn't like the game is either "nuts", or has "terrible taste", and I'm the arrogant one? π
Thanks for the laugh π
I even went as far as to show that I could've taken the higher ground and shown you that my opinion is more nuanced than yours through my knowledge of narrative writing, but no, I simply told you that I accept your opinion.
I did that in order to avoid this whole thing, but ok, I'm the arrogant one.
God people never cease to amaze me π
Re: Neil Druckmann to Continue Writing and Directing at Naughty Dog as Co-President
@starbuck2212 thanks π @kyleforrester87 dude c'mon already, the world is in shambles while we're waiting for you to give us the worldwide ultimate universally unanimous verdict! π
Re: Neil Druckmann to Continue Writing and Directing at Naughty Dog as Co-President
@nessisonett @SilentHunter382 these are both immaculate points ππ»
Edit: #78 & #80
Re: Naughty Dog Promotes Neil Druckmann, The Last of Us Creator Now Co-President
@Col_McCafferty lol, it's funny how you came in as a defender of the game only to then discredit anyone who might not like the game π
I mean, they're obviously wrong and have terrible taste, right?
I mean, I could tell you that you obviously don't know the first thing about writing if you can't see the glaring issues in the story, but no, I'll just accept the fact that you like the story and I don't.
Your comment is honestly very disgusting and dangerous.
By putting yourself on a pedestal and implying that those who don't like the game are "nuts", or even mysoginistic, you're distorting reality to suit your narrative, which is always dangerous. Be careful with the words that you choose, buddy, you're just making things worse.
Re: Naughty Dog Promotes Neil Druckmann, The Last of Us Creator Now Co-President
@naruball I see you haven't lost that fantastic habit you have of always and only attacking people, instead of their opinions.
Are you gonna speak your mind too someday, or will you just keep cowering behind your personal attacks?
It's very easy to attack others but never offer an opinion that could be attacked, isn't it?
Re: Naughty Dog Promotes Neil Druckmann, The Last of Us Creator Now Co-President
@Juanalf I wanted to stay out of this, but since you're curious, I'll give you my take π
Personally I'm incredibly baffled by the praise that the game has received because, from a writing standpoint, it's just absurd.
-The structure doesn't make any sense;
-the flashbacks are meaningless to the plot and confusing at best, and manipulative at worst;
-the themes are as heavy handed and poorly managed as they can get;
-the overarching plot is incredibly contrived and held together by tape, and (probably worst of all) it drags endlessly.
Honestly I think a good way to discern who is just b***hurt from Joel's death from who is genuinely criticizing the writing is seeing how much emphasis they put on that event.
I was never a ND fanboy so I didn't take that as personally as many others: to be honest, Joel's death may be a bit contrived, but I think it's the best thing in the whole story.
It works wonders as an inciting incident, and since it's meant as the beginning, you can handwave a little bit of contrivance to get the plot started.
When you realize the contrivances haven't ended there, the story's already off the rails.
It has good ideas and themes, but to me the fact that the first game tackled those same themes much better without even trying is indicative of the overall quality of the writing of this sequel.
I mean, I'm not even a big fan of TLOU personally, but noone can deny that that game was well-written and had a pretty much perfect ending.
I've been passionate about writing, reading about it and studying it for years now, and trust me that I was in utter disbelief when it was confirmed that the leaks were right.
I honestly believed there wouldn't be a chance in hell they would structure the story like that, and that it was a stunt to hinder the game's success.
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Map Size Estimate Suggests It's Twice as Big as GTA 5
Let's hope at least this time we won't talk about this game for another 7 years.
Re: Not Even PGA Tour 2K21 Can Escape the Battle Pass
I've had these doubts for a long time so I guess I'll ask here.
How do these Battle or whatever Passes work precisely?
Basically you normally grind levels for stuff, but if you pay you don't, and unlock everything right away?
Is it like XP Boosters, in that you pay NOT to play the game?
Re: Soapbox: I've Missed the Feeling of Having a Backlog
@Gremio108 especially if, like me, the one you have is 0.
I almost don't want to enjoy it cause I don't know if I'll ever have the time and strength to power through 7/8 mammoth games like it π
Re: Could Travis Scott Get His Own PS5 Game and Limited Edition Console?
I really hate this kind of cross promotion, but unfortunately that's not only the future, but the present too.
From huge ads disguised as movies (e.g. the Transformers cinematic franchise), to every song being a collab cause "why do it alone when more people can get visibility from that one song?", to trendy trappers dictating fashion and lifestyle.
This is just another example of the homogenized, bland future we're heading in, where everyone likes the same four things cause they're the only things advertised, and advertising each other.
Re: Immortals Fenyx Rising (PS5) - Formulaic Fun Takes Ancient Greece by Storm
Heard from SkillUp that it's way more organic, dense, compact and plain fun than Valhalla in any way possible, which positively surprised me.
The lack of features such as level gating, and the focus on organic exploration definitely caught me by surprise. I guess I'll get it used or on sale later next year if I have a fantasy open world itch to scratch.
Re: Swery's The Good Life Grabs Summer 2021 Release Window
Not that I had any interest, but I had totally forgot about this game!
And while I do agree that the first impression is nothing to write home about, I mean, it's Swery π
The man eats jank for breakfast, so I don't think it's gonna be more polished than that when it releases lol
Re: Mini Review: Maneater (PS5) β Some New Shiny Bits and Bobs Make for a Fun Time
@gbanas92 hey but surely it's so time consuming and painful to look for the PS4 review, you're a monster for doing this to your readers!
/s π
Re: Demon-Slaying Rhythm Game Metal: Hellsinger Gets New Gameplay in Music Video
@Jayofmaya dude Achromatic Minds is sick! Definitely very metal for my taste, but I like it nonetheless!
I got some vocal melodies (clean and unclean) in my head that I think would work well, I might record them and send them to you in the next few days if you'd like!
Just know that my timbre is way more post-hardcore high than death metal gravelly so maybe that's not to your liking lol π
Edit: Silent Vale is also interesting, I'd like to hear a full instrumental version if you happen to rerecord it one day π
Re: Demon-Slaying Rhythm Game Metal: Hellsinger Gets New Gameplay in Music Video
@TG16_IS_BAE Ah I see, no worries!
Re: Demon-Slaying Rhythm Game Metal: Hellsinger Gets New Gameplay in Music Video
@TG16_IS_BAE that's great, I like eclectic people π
Also I really like the saxophone, might hit you up for a future collaboration π
I've grown up listening mainly to pop punk and the likes, and then I grew more into prog rock, experimental rock, math rock jazz fusion, post-punk, post-hardcore, punk hardcore and some other heavier things, but unfortunately I've never been able to get into metal π
I like me some really heavy post-hardcore (something like Do It Again by Secret Band, for example), but for some reason I haven't found any of the myriad types of metal to do it for me βΉοΈ
Don't worry though, I get the feeling you and Jay will go along very well seeing your tastes π
In any case, I've also tried to broaden my taste as much as possible; for example, lately I've been trying to get into hip hop and so I started listening to Aesop Rock, since I found his lyrics to be several cuts above anything else I've encountered yet. I like him but I wouldn't consider myself a fan as of now, but maybe it'll change π
Edit: on the topic of Japanese music, I don't really like J-pop and J-rock, but I've found a treasure trove of jazz and funk artists over there! Some really amazing music!
Re: Demon-Slaying Rhythm Game Metal: Hellsinger Gets New Gameplay in Music Video
@Jayofmaya thanks a lot mate!
Looking forward to listening, this weekend I'll make sure to check everything out!
I copied your contact, so if you feel more comfortable editing it out, by all means go ahead!
To be fair I'm only just at the beginning and I'm quite confused lol
Though luckily I already have a couple decent mics and also have access to some other material belonging to people close to me, so at least I don't have to spend unholy amounts of money right away and postpone some purchases to when I have more expertise in the field.
I'll make sure to check out your stuff tomorrow or the day after and I'll let you know! Have a good one π
Re: Demon-Slaying Rhythm Game Metal: Hellsinger Gets New Gameplay in Music Video
@Jayofmaya hey mate, always a pleasure seeing you around π
Well, if you don't mind, I'll gladly listen to any and all songs you have in store, link away! π
It's unfortunate there's no DM'ing here, otherwise I'd give you my email account or something.
By the way I've decided to dedicate some of my spare time going forward trying to learn how to mix and master stuff, since I've always relied on others for that and I'd like to be able to manage my projects more independently, which means we could very well exchange recordings, and I could even contribute some vocals if need be π
Re: Demon-Slaying Rhythm Game Metal: Hellsinger Gets New Gameplay in Music Video
@TG16_IS_BAE ah I see, thanks for the explanation!
What instruments do you play? And what kind of music do you enjoy the most? π
I'm very passionate about music and also play a couple instruments (not really that well though ahahah), but unfortunately I've never received any musical education, aside from a period of studying singing privately with a classically trained singer.
I've studied some theory in my free time over the course of the years, but I wouldn't absolutely regard myself as an expert on theory and such π