The review doesn't really sound like a 10/10 for me. Hours in the middle where it's not much fun, and gameplay which seems to be reliant on others who've played before.
Would it be a mistake to wait with this? If you pick the game up a few months after release, would you find that there were safehouses every two minutes and safe routes everywhere?
I also take exception with the hyperbolic description of Res 4's inventory juggling. Maybe Liam thinks this was a highlight of that game, but it wasn't a huge draw personally. That and the mechanics of DS themselves don't sound much fun at all.
Don't get me wrong, it looks phenomenal and plot wise I'm definitely interested, but the lack of combat and the seemingly repetitive gameplay is really putting me off this.
I've got the original Nacon Revolution controller and I really like the layout. It's probably the best pad I've ever used. Honestly don't get the problem with the asymmetrical sticks. They're comfy!
"Bring the title back in all its glory, but it's a project that's perfect for the DLC model of today. Get a Battle Royale mode in there along with new tracks, characters, and skins and the jobs a good'un."
GOOD GOD NO. We've enough gouging, greedy, crap on current gen systems without adding more. One look at the backlash to CTR tells you all you need there.
@oldschool1987 ouch. So that's a hard no then. See I don't mind being PC and inclusive, it's a good thing. It's just when it's done so hamfistedly you can almost see the writers room where they all try and get their little virtue signals in to the detriment of the plot. It's at best distracting and at worst patronising.
@AdamNovice that's true, and most of my friends are big on soccer. However, these annual sports titles are like CoD. Fans buy them every year, and people who don't buy them usually don't want them.
Crap unless you like baseball and for some reason haven't played TLOU. Haven't they learned from the pes debacle that sports games should be left out of plus?
@tomassi there are a lot of people who don't like football. They're not usually "nerds" or "basement dwellers" either. There's quite a few on this site, come to think of it. As for boxing, my grandad used to box years ago in Liverpool so he taught me from a young age. Wouldn't say that most boxers are travellers either. Totally different thing, that. From your description I think that if you ever did meet me in person you'd probably be quite shocked. If you were going to make assumptions it would probably be more "that guy definitely drinks craft beer and collects vinyl". Yeah, I'll give you that it's popular across the board, but most people who want PES own it already. Those who don't usually just play FIFA instead. They're sort of their own industry as opposed to games now. Still, glad it got changed. PES is probably going to be about a quid in a month anyway.
@tomassi it's not really that ridiculous an argument. There was a huge backlash, Sony listened. There's obviously a lot of people who feel like I do. As for the bullied at school part, it's a bit of a generalisation to say that. I was actually quite into boxing and basketball at school, but I don't play boxing or sports games in general. FIFA sells to people who play mainly FIFA. It's a hobby for them, same as CoD or Battlefield. The only difference is that it's deemed acceptable to kick a ball about in your spare time. The comment about banning FPS games doesn't stand up, as the equivalent would be that it encourages players to join the army as opposed to indiscriminately murder people. Not everyone who likes football is an idiot, obviously. Most of my friends do. Thing is, all of the morons I've met are super into it as well, while everyone I've known who hates it tends to have done quite well for themselves.
@tomassi when was the last time you went for a quiet pint and had idiots screaming at the TV while someone played Borderlands? Ever been stuck in traffic for an hour because the police have stopped traffic for a parade honouring fictional androids? Nope. There's enough emphasis placed on football already. A lot of people don't like it, a huge proportion of whom are big on video games, and Sony listened to them
I'm not that keen on Detroit, but it's a vast improvement on that utter detritus. There's football EVERYWHERE, people. Go see or play it. Pick up an old football game for 50p from CeX or something. Quit your whining because people who hate this garbage have to put up with literally hundreds of hours per year of people talking, playing, shouting, or generally being idiots about it.
If Spurs win that means no parade tomorrow here in Liverpool. No parade means town won't be full of knobheads, and no knobheads means I can go for a nice roast dinner.
For the love of God, please let spurs win this. Love a nice roast dinner, me.
@ShogunRok I'm probably in the minority but I was underwhelmed by MW remastered (played the original to death and not interested in MP), and I just didn't like The Witness.
I've wanted the Surge for a while so I'll give that a go. Good month for me!
If you two are named after Rollo Tomassi and Circa Survive, then congratulations on your stellar music tastes. See? You've got good things in common. Live the dream, lads. Now, on topic: this Titanfall abomination which we're getting instead of another excellent campaign and sequel to Titanfall 2 is a complete let down.
@Weegee71 depending on how big a fan of the series you are, you can pick up a PS3 and a copy of the game for about the same price as a new AAA release. For a souls fan it's totally worth it, but just be aware (if you weren't already) that the servers are off now so it may feel a little empty. Personally, I like not having the online element sometimes. It reinforces the whole "staggering odds" deal, but if you want the true experience then it's sadly long gone.
While I'd love to see this happen, there are a few things that do stick out. Has anyone else played it lately? If you've played any other souls game it's immediately apparent that they were finding their feet with this one. It's good, don't get me wrong, but the systems and combat aren't a patch on DS1 onwards. The world tendencies in particular are obtuse to the point of being unnoticeable, and some of the areas are a bit of a slog. While it could be cleaned up graphically and have some gameplay elements easily changed, would that not run the risk of alienating the initial fans of the game completely? Change too much and it'll feel too different. Too little and it'll feel too dated. If bluepoint are working on this- and I really hope they are- then they face a really difficult task here. Still, if anyone can pull it off it's them!
@ApostateMage needs to be cooked properly. Done right it's damn good. I use it in curries, sandwiches, stir fry... Long as you remove any excess water it'll absorb any flavour you throw at it, and go nice and crispy if you fry it.
@JJ2 yeah my reply to you was a bit unpleasant there. Apologies.
What I mean is that I work with a lot of people who are really big on gaming, and most of my friends are as well. Nobody is talking about this game. To me that says that there's not much interest.
@Cordeceps as I said, I would like this to be another hit for Sony. However, I can't see it selling as well as they'd hope due to there being zero interest from anyone I've met. It'll be more of an order 1886 than a God of War, sales wise. Not Game Wise, but sales wise.
Good to hear, but I still don't think this is going to sell as well as Sony hoped. Not because it doesn't look well made, just that aside from on this site I haven't met one person who's bothered about it. It's like I instantly forget it exists the moment I leave the page. It's just so cliche and has nothing to make it stand out.
It's played too straight to be campy, and too cheesy to have that "cool" factor.
I mean, it's even got Sam "Pouty Mac Charmless" Witwer as Town Bike or whatever his name is. It's the very definition of bland.
I mean I'd love to be proven wrong, and if it turns out to be the next Last of Us then great! However, it just seems like SoA meets Walking Dead. Two franchises which need to just be put out of their misery completely and-even as of about five years ago- are more stale than the shambling wazzocks trying to eat your brains.
I don't want this to go free to play. I want this to fail so spectacularly that it makes Bethesda think twice about releasing garbage like this ever again.
I enjoyed FC5, but I'm not sold on this. Looks like DLC and has a sort of "design by committee" feel to it. Are the twins the protagonists? If so that's a huge issue. I like my player characters quiet in these kind of games.
Since the site forced me to think of something else, I was coming home from work yesterday and there was this lovely old German Shepherd on the train with his owner. He was obviously very excited to be around so many people, but my fellow commuters seemed annoyed at his exuberance.
He could barely balance himself due to his tail wagging so much and the movement of the train, but the look of sheer joy on his little face was incredibly heartwarming, and after a long day at work really lifted my spirits.
He was looking at me so I gave him a pat on the head and said I was pleased to meet him, and his owner grinned, acknowledging that I was seemingly the only person who looked pleased to have this bundle of fuzzy happiness on the train at this time.
It was a short interaction, but I know that it made both this dog and his owner that little more comfortable in the glare of disapproval from grumpy passengers.
This hasn't sold then! Good. I'm absolutely made up that this failed as hard as it did. A nasty little cash in which insulted player's intelligence by simply existing.
What a staggering display of mediocrity. It's no surprise that the AAA games were the most downloaded, but I miss the days when Plus gave away stuff like Vanquish, Demon's Souls, Spec Ops: The Line etc. Games which didn't sell amazingly well, but we're still relatively big titles which deserved a bigger audience.
With that said, I was very pleasantly surprised at Yakuza Kiwami. What with @shogunrok and @MC_noisy raving about the series I thought I'd give it a try. I'm about 20 hours in now, and it's bonkers but very addictive. I'm aware it isn't a great entry in the series, but it's still a lot of fun, even if those first few hours were a bit of a slog.
Playing this has me excited to get hold of Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise.
I remember being a kid and having this video with Spiderman and Fantastic Four on it, with Stan Lee doing the narration at the beginning and end of the episodes. I must have worn that tape out from watching it so much. He made such an indelible imprint on my childhood, and millions of others, and it's just not right to be cynical about something so pure and good. RIP.
I'm not getting my hopes up since that shadows die twice bobbins. We could have a sequel to one of the best games of all time, but nope. Bionic nioh and whatever the hell this nonsense is. Such a shame.
Stick to what you're good at, Bethesda. There are precious few publishers churning out AAA single player releases as it is. Don't go chasing that live service dollar.
it's not often I say this, but I really want this game to fail. It should never have been made, and it reeks of a needless cash grab. Bethesda should be better than this.
Comments 2,070
Re: Death Stranding - Hideo Kojima's Next Revolutionary Masterpiece
The review doesn't really sound like a 10/10 for me. Hours in the middle where it's not much fun, and gameplay which seems to be reliant on others who've played before.
Would it be a mistake to wait with this? If you pick the game up a few months after release, would you find that there were safehouses every two minutes and safe routes everywhere?
I also take exception with the hyperbolic description of Res 4's inventory juggling. Maybe Liam thinks this was a highlight of that game, but it wasn't a huge draw personally. That and the mechanics of DS themselves don't sound much fun at all.
Don't get me wrong, it looks phenomenal and plot wise I'm definitely interested, but the lack of combat and the seemingly repetitive gameplay is really putting me off this.
Think I'm gonna hold off on this one.
Re: PS4 Procures an Upgraded Officially Licensed Pro Controller
I've got the original Nacon Revolution controller and I really like the layout. It's probably the best pad I've ever used. Honestly don't get the problem with the asymmetrical sticks. They're comfy!
Re: Talking Point: If Bluepoint Games Isn't Working on Demon's Souls, What's Your Dream Sony Remake?
"Bring the title back in all its glory, but it's a project that's perfect for the DLC model of today. Get a Battle Royale mode in there along with new tracks, characters, and skins and the jobs a good'un."
GOOD GOD NO. We've enough gouging, greedy, crap on current gen systems without adding more. One look at the backlash to CTR tells you all you need there.
Re: Doctor Who: The Edge of Time Brings a Dalek Invasion to PSVR This November
@oldschool1987 ouch. So that's a hard no then. See I don't mind being PC and inclusive, it's a good thing. It's just when it's done so hamfistedly you can almost see the writers room where they all try and get their little virtue signals in to the detriment of the plot. It's at best distracting and at worst patronising.
Re: Doctor Who: The Edge of Time Brings a Dalek Invasion to PSVR This November
Haven't watched it since they had Matt Smith running around telling people it's ok to cry. Is it still terrible?
Re: PS Plus October 2019 PS4 Games Announced
@AdamNovice that's true, and most of my friends are big on soccer. However, these annual sports titles are like CoD. Fans buy them every year, and people who don't buy them usually don't want them.
Re: Talking Point: Did Sony Bring State of Play Back With a Bang?
Nope. Humanity I didn't see, that hohokum looking thing and the Viking one have flop written all over them, civilization is not the type of game I play, after-party looks boring, cod looks ok, TLOU 2 looks amazing but then it's a day one anyway. I don't care for the special edition death stranding console, and the plus lineup is a total s%©¥show.
Re: PS Plus October 2019 PS4 Games Announced
Crap unless you like baseball and for some reason haven't played TLOU. Haven't they learned from the pes debacle that sports games should be left out of plus?
Re: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare's Campaign Trailer Lives Up to Its Gritty Potential
Looks good but captain price's face looks a bit weird. Like his eyes are too small and his nose is too big.
Re: PS Plus July 2019 PS4 Games Changed After Fan Backlash
@tomassi there are a lot of people who don't like football. They're not usually "nerds" or "basement dwellers" either. There's quite a few on this site, come to think of it.
As for boxing, my grandad used to box years ago in Liverpool so he taught me from a young age. Wouldn't say that most boxers are travellers either. Totally different thing, that. From your description I think that if you ever did meet me in person you'd probably be quite shocked. If you were going to make assumptions it would probably be more "that guy definitely drinks craft beer and collects vinyl".
Yeah, I'll give you that it's popular across the board, but most people who want PES own it already. Those who don't usually just play FIFA instead. They're sort of their own industry as opposed to games now.
Still, glad it got changed. PES is probably going to be about a quid in a month anyway.
Re: PS Plus July 2019 PS4 Games Changed After Fan Backlash
@tomassi it's not really that ridiculous an argument. There was a huge backlash, Sony listened. There's obviously a lot of people who feel like I do.
As for the bullied at school part, it's a bit of a generalisation to say that. I was actually quite into boxing and basketball at school, but I don't play boxing or sports games in general.
FIFA sells to people who play mainly FIFA. It's a hobby for them, same as CoD or Battlefield. The only difference is that it's deemed acceptable to kick a ball about in your spare time. The comment about banning FPS games doesn't stand up, as the equivalent would be that it encourages players to join the army as opposed to indiscriminately murder people.
Not everyone who likes football is an idiot, obviously. Most of my friends do.
Thing is, all of the morons I've met are super into it as well, while everyone I've known who hates it tends to have done quite well for themselves.
Re: PS Plus July 2019 PS4 Games Changed After Fan Backlash
@tomassi when was the last time you went for a quiet pint and had idiots screaming at the TV while someone played Borderlands? Ever been stuck in traffic for an hour because the police have stopped traffic for a parade honouring fictional androids?
Nope. There's enough emphasis placed on football already. A lot of people don't like it, a huge proportion of whom are big on video games, and Sony listened to them
Re: PS Plus July 2019 PS4 Games Changed After Fan Backlash
I'm not that keen on Detroit, but it's a vast improvement on that utter detritus. There's football EVERYWHERE, people. Go see or play it. Pick up an old football game for 50p from CeX or something. Quit your whining because people who hate this garbage have to put up with literally hundreds of hours per year of people talking, playing, shouting, or generally being idiots about it.
Re: Soapbox: You Should Check Out Horizon Chase Turbo When it Drifts onto PS Plus This Month
Yeah I'll likely give this a go. I used to like outrun years ago, and god knows I won't be playing f@&!ing PESant.
Re: PS Plus July 2019 PS4 Games Announced
This is actually the worst month ever for me. I'm not bothered about racing but I actively despise football.
Re: The Famous Cross-Dressing Mission in Final Fantasy VII Is 'More Modern' in the Remake
I was just hoping to see a load of buff lads. 🤷♂️
Re: E3 2019: Contra: Rogue Corps May Not Be the Reboot You Wanted
WE'RE NOT GONNA PLAY IT. NO, WE AIN'T GONNA PLAY IT.
Re: BT Sport App Arrives on PS4 Just in Time for the Champions League Final
@RogerRoger bugger.
Guess I'll have to go to a better restaurant.
Re: BT Sport App Arrives on PS4 Just in Time for the Champions League Final
If Spurs win that means no parade tomorrow here in Liverpool. No parade means town won't be full of knobheads, and no knobheads means I can go for a nice roast dinner.
For the love of God, please let spurs win this. Love a nice roast dinner, me.
Re: Talking Point: What Free June 2019 PS Plus Games Do You Want?
@BridgeToClarity nice to see a fellow Yob fan on here. Amazing band.
I'd like to see a decent blockbuster title and a smaller indie. Something like Ghost Recon Wildlands and Hyper Light Drifter.
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 265
Ikaruga. I'm seriously addicted!
Re: PS Plus April 2019 PS4 Games Announced
@ShogunRok I'm probably in the minority but I was underwhelmed by MW remastered (played the original to death and not interested in MP), and I just didn't like The Witness.
I've wanted the Surge for a while so I'll give that a go. Good month for me!
Re: Senran Kagura 7EVEN Impossible to Release After Sony Censorship Row
"right now I'm really worried about what to do"
I mean, I'm not an expert or anything, but stop making games which sexualise kids? Might be a good shout.
Re: Titanfall Battle Royale Game Confirmed, Info Blowout Incoming
@tomassi @circasurviver
If you two are named after Rollo Tomassi and Circa Survive, then congratulations on your stellar music tastes. See? You've got good things in common. Live the dream, lads. Now, on topic: this Titanfall abomination which we're getting instead of another excellent campaign and sequel to Titanfall 2 is a complete let down.
Re: FromSoftware's Hidetaka Miyazaki Not Opposed to Demon's Souls Remaster
@Weegee71 depending on how big a fan of the series you are, you can pick up a PS3 and a copy of the game for about the same price as a new AAA release. For a souls fan it's totally worth it, but just be aware (if you weren't already) that the servers are off now so it may feel a little empty.
Personally, I like not having the online element sometimes. It reinforces the whole "staggering odds" deal, but if you want the true experience then it's sadly long gone.
Re: FromSoftware's Hidetaka Miyazaki Not Opposed to Demon's Souls Remaster
While I'd love to see this happen, there are a few things that do stick out.
Has anyone else played it lately? If you've played any other souls game it's immediately apparent that they were finding their feet with this one.
It's good, don't get me wrong, but the systems and combat aren't a patch on DS1 onwards. The world tendencies in particular are obtuse to the point of being unnoticeable, and some of the areas are a bit of a slog.
While it could be cleaned up graphically and have some gameplay elements easily changed, would that not run the risk of alienating the initial fans of the game completely? Change too much and it'll feel too different. Too little and it'll feel too dated.
If bluepoint are working on this- and I really hope they are- then they face a really difficult task here. Still, if anyone can pull it off it's them!
Re: Yes, Resident Evil 2 Will Feature Tofu and Those Classic Unlockable Modes on PS4
@ApostateMage needs to be cooked properly. Done right it's damn good. I use it in curries, sandwiches, stir fry... Long as you remove any excess water it'll absorb any flavour you throw at it, and go nice and crispy if you fry it.
Re: Yes, Resident Evil 2 Will Feature Tofu and Those Classic Unlockable Modes on PS4
@Nickolaidas yeah man. I meant I was hungry. Made a crispy chili tofu, sriracha, and violife cheese toasted sandwich. It was the damn nuts!
Re: Yes, Resident Evil 2 Will Feature Tofu and Those Classic Unlockable Modes on PS4
Dammit now I want tofu.
Re: Days Gone Multiplayer Was Pitched, But Sony Said No
@JJ2 yeah my reply to you was a bit unpleasant there. Apologies.
What I mean is that I work with a lot of people who are really big on gaming, and most of my friends are as well. Nobody is talking about this game. To me that says that there's not much interest.
Re: Days Gone Multiplayer Was Pitched, But Sony Said No
@Cordeceps as I said, I would like this to be another hit for Sony. However, I can't see it selling as well as they'd hope due to there being zero interest from anyone I've met. It'll be more of an order 1886 than a God of War, sales wise. Not Game Wise, but sales wise.
Re: Days Gone Multiplayer Was Pitched, But Sony Said No
Good to hear, but I still don't think this is going to sell as well as Sony hoped. Not because it doesn't look well made, just that aside from on this site I haven't met one person who's bothered about it.
It's like I instantly forget it exists the moment I leave the page. It's just so cliche and has nothing to make it stand out.
It's played too straight to be campy, and too cheesy to have that "cool" factor.
I mean, it's even got Sam "Pouty Mac Charmless" Witwer as Town Bike or whatever his name is. It's the very definition of bland.
I mean I'd love to be proven wrong, and if it turns out to be the next Last of Us then great! However, it just seems like SoA meets Walking Dead. Two franchises which need to just be put out of their misery completely and-even as of about five years ago- are more stale than the shambling wazzocks trying to eat your brains.
Re: Talking Point: What Free January 2019 PS Plus Games Do You Want?
They just got announced.
They suck.
Re: Fans Aren't Happy About Fallout 76 Microtransactions, PC Version Hints at Pay-to-Win
I don't want this to go free to play. I want this to fail so spectacularly that it makes Bethesda think twice about releasing garbage like this ever again.
Re: The Game Awards 2018: Far Cry: New Dawn Drops the Bomb in February 2019
I enjoyed FC5, but I'm not sold on this. Looks like DLC and has a sort of "design by committee" feel to it. Are the twins the protagonists? If so that's a huge issue. I like my player characters quiet in these kind of games.
Re: The Game Awards 2018: Obsidian's Making a Space RPG Called The Outer Worlds Coming to PS4
I'm in. This looks like the game Fallout 4 should have been.
Re: PS Now Subscriptions Discounted for the Holidays
@Vegetto yeah you can. I've been playing crimsonland and got a bunch of them.
This is good, I've got a weeks trial on at the moment and there's some good stuff on it
Re: The Game Awards Will Play Host to Your Next Glimpse of ANTHEM
Nah I don't think anyone gives a toss tbh.
Re: Talking Point: What Free December 2018 PS Plus Games Do You Want?
MOAR YAKUZA.
Since the site forced me to think of something else, I was coming home from work yesterday and there was this lovely old German Shepherd on the train with his owner. He was obviously very excited to be around so many people, but my fellow commuters seemed annoyed at his exuberance.
He could barely balance himself due to his tail wagging so much and the movement of the train, but the look of sheer joy on his little face was incredibly heartwarming, and after a long day at work really lifted my spirits.
He was looking at me so I gave him a pat on the head and said I was pleased to meet him, and his owner grinned, acknowledging that I was seemingly the only person who looked pleased to have this bundle of fuzzy happiness on the train at this time.
It was a short interaction, but I know that it made both this dog and his owner that little more comfortable in the glare of disapproval from grumpy passengers.
Re: Black Friday 2018: The Broken, Buggy Fallout 76 Discounted After a Week
This hasn't sold then! Good. I'm absolutely made up that this failed as hard as it did. A nasty little cash in which insulted player's intelligence by simply existing.
Re: Black Friday 2018: Spider-Man PS4 Swings to Its Lowest Price Yet
Yeah my excuse is that I think my gf got me it for Xmas so dammit I can't! Ah well, back to Yakuza.
Re: Sony Reveals PS Plus' Most Downloaded Games on PS4
@ShogunRok so I heard! I'm looking forward to the rest in the series if I can tear myself away from battering Rina at pool!
Re: Sony Reveals PS Plus' Most Downloaded Games on PS4
What a staggering display of mediocrity. It's no surprise that the AAA games were the most downloaded, but I miss the days when Plus gave away stuff like Vanquish, Demon's Souls, Spec Ops: The Line etc. Games which didn't sell amazingly well, but we're still relatively big titles which deserved a bigger audience.
With that said, I was very pleasantly surprised at Yakuza Kiwami. What with @shogunrok and @MC_noisy raving about the series I thought I'd give it a try. I'm about 20 hours in now, and it's bonkers but very addictive. I'm aware it isn't a great entry in the series, but it's still a lot of fun, even if those first few hours were a bit of a slog.
Playing this has me excited to get hold of Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise.
Re: Comicbook Legend and Co-Creator of Spider-Man Stan Lee Dies Age 95
@Enuo I love this comment.
I remember being a kid and having this video with Spiderman and Fantastic Four on it, with Stan Lee doing the narration at the beginning and end of the episodes. I must have worn that tape out from watching it so much.
He made such an indelible imprint on my childhood, and millions of others, and it's just not right to be cynical about something so pure and good. RIP.
Re: Déraciné Easter Egg Has People Talking About Bloodborne 2
I'm not getting my hopes up since that shadows die twice bobbins. We could have a sequel to one of the best games of all time, but nope. Bionic nioh and whatever the hell this nonsense is. Such a shame.
Re: Hands On: Fallout 76 PS4 Beta Has Us Worried for the Full Game
I'm glad it's terrible and I hope it fails.
Stick to what you're good at, Bethesda. There are precious few publishers churning out AAA single player releases as it is. Don't go chasing that live service dollar.
Re: Undertale Follow-Up Deltarune Gets Free Playable Chapter on PC
Oh I'm definitely into this! Undertale is one of my all time favourite games.
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 - Rockstar's Best Ever Game
@ShogunRok so no mention of microtransactions. Does that mean the single player doesn't have them?
Re: Midgard Mishaps Is an Official God of War PS4 Glitch Video, and It's Great
ATREUS! TO ME!
That end bit got me. Amazing.
Re: Bethesda Warns of 'Spectacular' Fallout 76 Issues, Promises to Fix Them
it's not often I say this, but I really want this game to fail.
It should never have been made, and it reeks of a needless cash grab. Bethesda should be better than this.