Grindagger

@MJF You're right it's 1 game split into 3 parts.

You're wrong to try and masquerade it as one game costing 180 dollars. Learn to read. Thanks.

@MJF "I don't care about putting 180 bucks into a game I like.
But I'm not going to pretend it ISN'T 180 bucks for a game."

In your original statement you insinuated that because it's episodic that the combined episodes somehow is one game.

I suppose, if you get down to it, this is really a matter of what you actually consider to constitute one game?

Look, Episode 1 of this game is a full 60 hour JRPG in it's own right, so you're paying 60-70 bucks for a FULL GAME, as in, you're getting your moneys worth of experience for time spent experiencing playing a game.

So to say you're paying 180 bucks for a game is in honesty, disingenous, because you're implying that you're paying 180 bucks for one game, when realistically, it's for several. The game is just not condensed into one game anymore (for reasons already previously explained).

However, since you've clearly shown that the price point doesn't bother you, and you're buying it anyway, this makes your whole argument, and perspective seem lacking any reasoning whatsoever. So, what exactly are you making disingenous statements like that in the first place for?

@MJF That really says a lot about how ridiculously moot your point is. Hilarious, just doesnt cut it.

@beavis64 Cant argue with that

@MJF Because this isnt about right or wrong. Because the definition is subjective on whether it should be released as one game or as more than one game, but seeing as you're too dense to understand that, it's not any surprise to me that you keep harping on about the same point over and over like a broken record, due to your one track line of discourse being unable to fathom alternative opinion. It's still amusing nonetheless so please continue with your inane babbling

@beavis64 Not necessarily. By november 2005 the Ps2 had sold 100 million. That was nearly one full year before the ps4 shipped. When you consider this and that ps2 sales had peaked at 158 million by 2013. It took them 8 years to get 58 million, opposed to the 4 it took them to get 100 million. And that's with an extra years trading. PS4 is in a similar boat with a smaller window till ps5 releases though. It depends on the longevity of PS4 and how long Sony intends to support it, considering their new console is completely backwards compatible. Still a feat for them to reach the same amount, volumetrically speaking.

As amazing as that it (a true accomplishment), it is still a ways from PS2 behemoth sales of over 150 million units. No doubt PS4 will move closer to this, but I don't think it will beat it, PS5 will take hold and the steam will run out before it can get there I reckon.

Still one of the best performances by Sony, and total domination over the market.

@GodGamer I think it's not a huge deal because of who she is, but rather the decision thats been made.

So it's a big deal, probably for the wrong reasons.

Good luck, you're going to need it.

Stadia is definitely going to bomb.

Make sense....shrugs shoulders

Not much else to really say.

@BarefootBowser The point I was making was I'm not necessarily concerned by what they've pointed out, people get upset about a lot of things these days with games, and pick and prod at just about everything they can.

I believe the main reason this game has taken so long to come to fruitition is mainly because of expectation. It's just never going to hit that, because of the vastness of the original fanbase of the 97 classic. It's just not going to appeal to all of them, but for those that can overlook some of this, and appreciate it in its own context, it's still going to be one hell of an experience I believe.

This hasn't derailed any hype for me personally.

@BarefootBowser Pretty subjective. I mean, fine if that's your take, but depends on what you consider "poor, unsatisfactory filler". Also, bear in mind this is a demo, and should by no means be the expectation of the entire game.

@Matroska The whole argument for that does not consider the differences between 1997 and 2020, and how much more we can do with fleshing out the entire story of FFVII.

It's an argument that is grounded in just a fact of "Well it was one game in 1997, it should be one game in 2020". No, it shouldn't, because it would be watered down, simplified to hell, and rubbish, and with little to no decent production value.

This sounds fine to me. The Demo is probably based on older code, and probably nothing like the final product will be.

Secondly, how could you expect the bombing mission to not be linear? It was linear in the original, and also mostly it's a Mako Reactor factory, not something that is going to be multi-pathing, and I think that would be odd as well.

Let's also not forget that FFVII was a linear game up until you left Midgar, so maybe this is what square are emulating for it's initial episode, which may also be the reason why the first episode ends at the end of the midgar section....

This all adds up for me, don't be concerned FFVII fans, this sounds promising to me.

@MJF It was meant to be adult discourse, but apparently you're a child. So, nothing else to say at this point.

I severely dislike people who act like petulent children.

There is no suffering. This is a console announcement we're talking about, get some perspective.

Sony are playing the long game, and waiting for Microsoft to make their move.

They're hoping that they can make a counter PR stunt like they did in the last generation that literally won them the console war from the beginning.

This is important stuff guys, this uncertainty stuff is petty. Sony aren't uncertain, they're the opposite, they know exactly what they're doing.

@MJF Your simplemindedness is not allowing you to understand the detailed points I was making, because of the closed narrative you can't seem to broaden.

I already agreed that technically speaking you were correct, but your pomposity, and complete lack of understanding anything other than your single minded viewpoint is seriously making any sort of discourse with you extremely limiting.

Frankly, I don't have anything more to say to you, because it wouldn't be worth discussing further with you. You're probably trolling at this point, and I have better things to do with my time, so
feel free to have the last word, and have a nice day.

@MJF Yeaaaah, ok. I think we'll just leave that where it lies, this is clearly not something you're able to get a handle on here, as my points have either gone over your head, or you're too obtuse to understand them, either way it's a waste of my time trying to explain them.

@MJF Is Gears Of War 1, 2, 3 etc one game?

You have to consider it the same when a story is being retold on a much larger, and wider scale with higher production values.

Your perspective is literally a straw man semantics point and nothing more. It's technically true, and that's where the reality of it ends.

@Porco I actually agree with some of your points though. Extended DLC being one of them. I dont see episodic full blown rpgs as that though, that is where I cant agree with you. I didnt play the FFXV dlc either and it bothered me it came out after the initial game too. FfVII remake was never going to be able to fit into one game, never, it's not possible with today's graphical standards.

I was thinking of buying this, but I saw some negative reviews saying it was too simplistic and repetitive, and not very in depth when you compared it to the likes of theme hospital.

Interesting take though, I'll have a think, but might still be a purchase.

@Katuo This just makes sense though. It's pretty much what I was pointing out, with the addition of more contextualized views of Japanese cultural work ethic.

But, yeah, couldn't agree more.

I do also agree, that, of course SE are going to milk this game, it's one of their biggest flagship games. They'd be complete idiots not to, from a business standpoint.

It's not like they're going to just do minimal business from it, when they know it's going to sell like hotcakes. No one is forced to buy what they don't want. I have a problem with DLC's when they're paywalls or some nonsense like that(cough cough EA).

@TheFatPonyo I think it's fine to make your opinion known, just be aware of the fact that if it's on a forum, it's open to being commented on. And that can include scrutinizing your point of view, from people who don't agree. Although, people should generally stay away from personal insults, as it doesn't really do a lot for anyones argument, I agree.

@Porco This is a pointless discussion, because this is just perspective, of which we have differing takes.

Your perspective is that the game being released episodically is SE taking you for a ride, and trying to drain you dry of cash. I've already explained my argument for why they've decided to do that, and to be fair, my perspective makes a lot of sense, just from a development point of view. And having actually worked for a triple A studio for several years in the development team, I can attest that the work required in todays capacity, in terms of storytelling and subsequent creation of assets like modeling, physics, coding etc takes a lot lot longer than it did in 1997.

What could be accomplished in 1997, where storytelling was still very much the main stepping stone for making an accomplished game, as graphic were still infantile (certainly when compared to todays standards), FFVII was an expansive, and deep story, and that was over 3 discs, THREE, back in '97.

To try and pack that all into one game now, and deliver it with stunning visual effects AND develop back story AND enhance character story arcs AND faithfully recreate all the areas from the original game, but again in amazing quality, and polish, and to do all this, and expect the ENTIRITY of FFVII in one game is, to be frank, absurb, and devoid of any critical thinking, or logic.

You saying I'm fawning over FFVII remake with nostalgia, and losing my logic is ironical, when in fact I'm producing reasoned arguments, based in logic, rather than ranting and raving over SE's malpractices, and bitterness about previous titles.

Sure, I get that you don't trust them with this game, because previous games weren't up to standard for you. But, it's again important to understand perspective that, whilst this may be the case for you, there are a lot of people who feel quite the opposite. For me, the only truly bad main FF titles recently created were FFXIII (I'll agree, an absolute disaster, however, there are still people who like even that title), and FFXIV (pre a realm reborn) which when it first came out in 2010 was a piece of excrement.

Should I therefore hate anything that comes out because of those two games? No. Should I judge everything they do because of those two games? No. SE is not EA, so no is the answer, and clearly the company still has a faithful following, and is loved by many. My recent trip to Japan showed me just how much their own culture loved Square, so much of their cultural heritage for modern video games is grounded heavily by SE influence these days.

In regards to your final comments. I (And likely many others) do not feel that Square are treating their fans disrespectfully, and sure some of us are going into this blindly, but not with trepidation, but hope. So far, i've not seen anything that would deter me from absolutely loving the remake of one of my favourite games of all time, I see no time to start scrutinizing a game, that has given me very little to scrutinize thus far. The DLC summons is such a minor point of contention, that only people who are looking to create an argument for the sake of it will do so.

Anyway, i digress. I understand you have your views, and nothing I'm going to say will change them, and that's fine. Just understand, and appreciate that your views (which may also be shared by many) are just another opinion, much like my own, and these perspectives won't change, whether you want them to, or not.

@Porco Maybe if you've heard it all before, it's because people are talking sense.

Listen, I understand that we are not going to see eye to eye on this subject, but in my view this is primarily to do with your embitterment towards SE due to past disappointments. I didnt like FF XIII either for the record, I thought it was trash, but I still love most SE releases, and sure I'm a fanboy, but not blindly...

You're passing judgement with nothing but speculations. How can anyone take you seriously when you're trying to build an argument off the back off literal embittered ranting?

The irony here is they're not taking me for a ride, they're taking you for one, seeing as I'm the one who is happy and excited about the product, and you're rage-filled, and upset that some people dont agree with your perspective.

Mine is grounded in current observations of what we have been shown so far, and I'll attest, a certain degree of optimism, but that's still a heap ton better than speculated ranting.

@MJF Using your same logic, that's like saying the "Gears Of War" games are collectively X amount of dollars.

We are not in 1997 anymore, the company cannot create an epic game with graphic quality that is currently expected out of a AAA studio in one iteration.

Instead, they have to create it into a meandering story, fleshed out, modernized, and updated for the current era.

If you want to be smug about it, fine, yes, it's one game, as in it's "Final Fantasy VII", but it's been dissected into chapters, so as to give players a fuller, more meaningful experience of the world of Final Fantasy VII.

An attempt to try and disingenously hookline it as Square Enix using it as a tool to squeeze cash out of people is petty, and childish, because it's clearly just not true by looking at the production value alone, and the fact that the first chapter of the game is 100gb.

Either (a) grow up and form an opinion that's not grounded in childish perspective or (b) at least create a logical, and sound reasoning to your arguments.

The actual correct phrase would be (without being disingenous). The collection of fully fleshed out episodic games that make up the entire story of Final Fantasy VII now each include a full 60-80 hour experience per episode, each episode costing $60, with a potential of 3 episodes to cover the entire story will amount to a total of $180.

@Porco Dude, each game is a full experience. How can you label it "one game" for 180 dollars, when each iteration is a fully fleshed out, full JRPG...

I mean, I'm not going to say you're an idiot, because I don't know you, but the comment does come across as a bit clueless, particularly so since we don't have any of the concrete facts at this time.

At least wait to see, before passing judgement on Square Enix.

@Fath Ahhh, ok, well from that perspective I can agree with you on.

But, in the event that these are given off the bat, at the start, before really getting into the story, I don't personally feel it detracts too much from the game as a whole.

Sure they're not located, or acquired naturally throughout the game, but in honesty they weren't part of the original FFVII game anyway, so them not appearing, or not being used is still arbitrary.

In regards to the immersion side, I do get your perspective, and I'm sure it's one shared by others, because getting sent an in game "mail" or something to that effect breaking the immersion of the story and/or world you're engaged in can definitely detract from the enjoyment of the experience.

What if they were unlocked at the title screen, and were just in your inventory, or better still were introduced into the game with a more immersive method (even if they're given to you), would you then have less of a problem with it if that were the case?

@Fath This is subjective. I like 2 of them, the carbie, not so much, but it doesn't bother me. It's nice I'll be getting them as an extra for ordering the soldier 1st class edition.

I get your point, but I think it's a little on the pedantic side. These additions wouldn't have taken a great deal of development to manage and bring to fruition , and would of been done only as an addition to compliment purchases.

I can't see how it's anti-immersive. You don't need to use them if you get them, and if you don't pre order, or get the deluxe editions you won't see them, I don't really see how that gets in the way of you being able to enjoy the game? These summons are arbitrary at best, and nothing more than an incentive for fans.

Why can't people look at this as these being offered as an ADDITIONAL gift for those that wish to pre order, purchase deluxe edition or the Soldier 1st Class edition?

These are definitely not paramount, or necessary for the game, just some fun extras for the people who pledge for the game.

These people who think it's just people overreacting really angers me.

COVID-19 is a serious health concern for our planet, and humanity as a whole. Yes, right now the mortality rate is low, but the more it spreads the more chance it has of mutating into something far more deadly, and a pandemic on our hands, with a deadly mutagen is a recipe for mass deaths, into tens of millions.

Safety first, always, ignore the whiners.

Nice, signed up. This was unknown to me, good journalism and information right here.

Would probably of missed this.

The suspense is killing me, but realistically, all we can do is wait, and try not to think about it constantly, it's just going to prolong the suffering.

@ellsworth004 It's nice to hear I'm not the only one, because it's does bother me with Persona, I genuinely really want to like it.

I feel though, that this caters 100% to the young market only, and the narrative felt condescending at times to someone who is maybe a bit older, and wiser (I.E each of the baddies felt like it was a life lesson on what not to do, or behave, and were just things that came across as obvious, and slightly insulting to my intelligence).

Like I said, I'm sure it wasn't intentional, and was probably designed to appeal to a younger audience, and in that respect I can see why its so highly praised for not just great production value, but good moral standards, interesting gameplay mechanics and a sprawling interactive environment to explore.

Meh, I'm just getting old and grumpy probably... haha

Bring it on!

The bigger the better. I believe they already said it was going to be multidisc, so I expected as much, although that is literally 2 fully maxed out dual layer bluray discs, which is pretty awesome.

I think Red Dead did the same though If I recall.

Like the article writer put, I imagine a large chunk of that is going to be animated FMV sequences, as there is probably a lot of dialogue and story to unfold inbetween action scenes, so whilst I think it's going to be big, I don't think it will be as big as people think it will be.

60 hours to complete the game (80 for completionist maybe).

I'm sorry, i'm going to be that guy.

I just couldn't get with Persona. I know it's well respected, and objectively I completely appreciate the astounding game that it is in its own right.

Personally as a guy in my late 30's, I think I couldn't really relate to the lifestyle of a teenager, and the narrative pushed very hard to try to make the player engage, and engross themselves in that.

I play a lot of JRPGs, including ones that include schools, such as Trails Of Cold Steel, i love all of the Trails series, and that's because there is an adult overtone to the overall journey.

With Persona, I felt that I was having to literally throw myself into a childs persona, and play along with the narrative of the underlying school life. I found this particularly, well, unsettling for me on a personal level, so I just couldn't stomach it. A shame, because, as a premise it sure does tick a whole lot of boxes.

Still, well deserving of the praise it receives.

I don't see why we should have to buy a game we already own (particularly so if they force a shut down of the PS4 servers to migrate people to the new platform). Because this in essence makes it redundant to have backwards compatibility in the first place.

If I want to play Siege, I'm going to play my PS4 version, if they want to charge me 60 bucks for the pleasure of having it on PS5.

Now, if they do some sort of half way house, where, if you have the original, you can get the upgrade for 10 bucks, then.... well, that's something more reasonable and open for discourse.

The real question is will we be charged to rebuy the game on the new console if we already own the PS4 version?

This is the REAL question that needs answering here.

@Bliquid Not really, he's 35 I believe in the original FFVII, which is probably just pre grey hair period, so he looks about on target for his looks.

He's got that rugged marginal aged look to him when you compare him against the likes of Cloud for example.

Carbie in FFVII....

**Raises Eyebrow**

@TheBuzz Dude, what you said totally resonates with me.

Particularly the idea of coming home after work, and then spending my entire evening working again (even if it would be a labour of love). I just don't have the energy, since that is expended on my actual career.

I think this will resonate with artistic types, with a lot of creativity and time. And whilst that might encompass a lot of people on individual traits, having all 3 of these at the same time is a very small percentage, likely college people who are aspiring video game developers, and as you said, eventually this game will likely be a collection of a few very good titles made over several years, by this time people will already be on PS5 enjoying whatever there is to be offered there....

It's a bit too little, too late, and too niche imo.

@fabisputza00 I think this game does appeal to certain types of people who want to play a lot of indie type games.

It's not for me personally, and I don't have the time or the inclination to build a game from scratch.

@leucocyte Don't underestimate the value of a loyal consumer base, and the value of the brand that's brought from that.

It's actually a viable business model to sell the consoles at a loss, particularly so if they're taking a significant portion of the market consumer with them.

They'll make that back in subscriptions and rev share percentages on their 3rd party game sales, and exclusivity deals they'll be able to get with that much interest.

It's taking an initial hit, in order to make a killing in the long run. I'm sure the loss won't be as much as $200, but $100 would still be doable.

Edit: Not to mention, mid generation, they'll find a cheaper way to get the same output, and rerelease it as the "slim" or whatever, and then sell it at parity or a marginal profit.

@BearsEatBeets Yes, I fear you're right on that. I think it's ok to be shrewd here.

Next generational reveals are extremely pivotal in terms of where the sales end up at the end of the line. This is dangerous ground for these companies whilst they play strategic financial battleships so to speak.

You don't want your figurative air craft carrier sunk before the battles even begun. If you're going to strike first, you better make it such an impression that your competitor can't come back with something more impressive, and if you're going to wait, you better ensure your reveal will blow the socks off your competitors pitch.

Not sure how it will pan out, but I'm confident that Sony have it well in hand, and know how to play this game, and more importantly better than Microsoft can play it.

Time will tell though...

@BearsEatBeets The problem with that tit-for-tat approach, is that Xbox is likely doing the exact same. Which means we'll be in the long haul for an actual reveal for pricing. Might not be till last minute.

I know this is actually a very key point for a lot of people, so I'm not going to make light of the fact that an expensive console is not a non-issue.

However, from a personal standpoint I wouldn't mind if the console was $1,000, not because it's expensive, but because I'm investing for the future, a long future.

When you look at it, even at $1k for up to probably at least 7 years worth of entertainment, that's a pretty good deal.

This would also be on the proviso that the console was made out of decent materials, and had the right parts to amount to that sort of money.

Anyway, I digress, as it's not going to be anywhere near that, but I'd still be happy with $600, even that as a stretch. This is the future of gaming, and modern equipment costs money to manafacture.

That beautiful wallpaper is sullied by that small blue box with the writing "EA Access" on it.

I've never even rated this guy, he's a shill...

Oh hello last generation players from the past....