ButteredCrumpet

@Stwert It’s also important when pointing out that vinyl sales made less in some markets than games, games also usually cost a whole lot more to make than albums by artists.

An average artist of today is not costing the music label 200-300 million dollars to push out an album.

And the artists, labels and so on get a much higher portion of the revenue from CD/vinyl, whereas as developers/publishers and so conversely see a lot higher portion of revenue from digital sales.

I totally get people wanting physical games to stay, as do I, but comparing the markets is only a losing man’s game, as they really operate so very differently to one another.

Vinyl makes huge sums of money per vinyl sold, given both the sale price and the price it takes to produce and market an album.

Games, not so much. It takes huge numbers of games to be sold either digitally or physically to even come close to the figure some of these games cost.

The cost to make games needs to come down, physical games need to continue, more rights for those who want physical and digital and digital to be more competitively priced.

@McBurn Out of the two they offer, I’d go with the PS-LX5BT as it has a far superior needle, and still of the same auto play/pick up and stop options.

However, for the price they sell in the UK, technically, if you don’t need auto stop/play and so on, other brands like ProJect and the like offer cheaper pricing, and far better Ortofon or Audio Technica needles.

If of course none of that matters, it’s still a great turntable, it punches high, but still think the pricing is a little much.

I’ll be picking this DLC up during the discount, thanks for the heads up! I have some ShopTo credit to use so this will mean paying even less than the £8.99, awesome!

Their vinyl players aren’t bad, I have two ProJect ones myself, but after listening to Sony’s “premium” offering in Richer Sounds it was great.

Hope they keep pushing them out with iterative improvements like they have, the auto play and stop feature is nice to have, as many turn tables opt to exclude that.

@XenonKnight I think that’s great, as am I haha. I’m not participating in this. Hope you get some good games for your catalogue!

@GamingGod That would be the best mentality for anyone partaking in this. Take a break from it all. Any activity on a console when connected back will show the company all activity and log as usage.

So on a monthly report it won’t change anything.

But getting your backlog sorted will get you off to sleep with Marvel if nothing else! 😂

@XenonKnight Having your PS5 offline whilst playing, to then connect it back to the internet at any point then on, shows Sony you have played on the console. It tells them what you loaded, how long, what trophies you achieved, and so forth.

All unplugging from their servers do is prevent them from knowing in real time. They will still know and count it as time played for that week if someone connects their PS5 even next year.

Like I have advised others, if they wish to partake, the only way to tell Sony you’re not playing physical or digital games on a PS5 is to not play them, or never connect your PS5 to the internet again.

@Balaam_ It depends on the message you wish to send, the moment your console connects back, it tells Sony all you have been doing, so if you want to tell them you haven't played games, it's best to not play games.

Otherwise connecting will sync your data (for trophies, purchase "rights", PS Plus checks and checking your serial number against records). So playing a game during the down period, in a report by Sony will still show you played that week. It's just they won't know you played that week until you connect back.

@kyleforrester87 Agreed, that makes two of us! See you on another thread regarding something else much more enjoyable and less depressing to discuss!

@ShadowRJ Absolutely, and I think that's a question you'd have to ask people who use GoG and so on to find further answers. As Game Key Cards and some Xbox shipped discs prove, having a physical medium to buy a said game, doesn't mean there's any legal obligation to provide anything other than a license.

I think the future of gaming is digital, despite wanting everyone to have more options, and I personally want physical to stay for those that want it and use it. However, if digital really is the future, people are going to really have to decide what they like about gaming.

If it's not the game, but also the storage media, console is not going to be the option moving forwards. You raise some excellent points though, always love chatting away to you.

@GamingGod With joblots worth of games to go at, you'll be good for the rest of your life, never mind whatever companies do next gen haha. Have fun with them, that's going to be wild opening up all of those collections and deciding what to keep and where etc.

@ShadowRJ I will ask, as you posted a forum post on this site relating to how we need to not make this a civil war, how gamers on both sides, and even the middle should come together. Yet, in the same forum post you declare you "don't like digital games, end of!"

Now, the solutions you're proposing in this very thread seem to relate all to how to make a physical copy of a license/game, yet you're not really suggesting any way to actually improve the rights of gamers.

You've stated in the same post that we shouldn't be against one another, but then you're not seemingly thinking of any solution other than one Sony have stated they categorically don't support post 2028.

So assume you are digital only, it's 2029, your GoG collection is maybe 5 games, because let's be realistic, you're not going to re-buy all your PS4/5 collection on GoG even if it's available.

Then to what, burn it to a CD from eBay, whereby you have to then have a printer to then print on ultra high quality paper something resembling a cheap knock off of a man in a pub or car boot selling DVD's and PlayStation games of yesteryear.

I get that you're trying to put forward ideas for physical to remain, but it's not remaining, so the only other option for us to discuss would then be what do we do with the rights pertaining to what does remain.

Now after some PC enthusiasts have eluded to GoG having more rights than PS5 games, you've focused on that, but then you're forgetting you're wanting to game on a closed loop system, you are choosing to game on a device that purposefully goes out of its way to block anything not Sony.

So if your desire is a GoG solution, wouldn't the logical step be to move to PC and use GoG? As you're wanting PlayStation to be GoG, but GoG already exists and you can use it right now, you don't have to wait.

I'm not trying to argue or troll, or bait, or whatever other words are ever so popular with the teenage community I no longer belong. However, I'm just trying to make sure we actually figure out what we all want. As currently you seem to be asking for a PC, so Sony's solution to that would be that's awesome, so go to PC.

@Dalamar I will never forgive you for that mental image. 😂

I really liked reading about Lazlow Jones speaking of his creative journey, in that creating a physical thing (the comic) and then seeing that come to fruition is a really satisfying journey to go on and end with.

I can certainly relate to that, same with musicians and any creative that's in the business of creating, there is something undeniably wonderful about saying "Wow, I helped to make that!"

For the time being though, how about we all go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for this all to blow over.

@TensuraFan7 Verbally attack and scream? Good gosh you sure do know how to escalate things quickly don’t you?

The only troll between them and I is clearly them, the fact all they’ve done in 6 years is post negative comments.

Honestly, what compels you to jump on and defend a stranger that is so clearly negative.

A troll, feeds off negativity, so go on, look at their comment history and tell me where they’ve tried to be anything but negative.

Think before you comment. You’ve literally just defended a troll by calling someone else a troll.

All you’ve achieved is to lower your apparent social score in this thread. Congratulations.

@Oram77 Oh, I just meant as in I don’t like him much myself, all he’s really publicly and internally done is voice how difficult he’s found anything creatively over the years. To the point most speculated he’d leave the industry.

Now I’m glad he’s clearly feeling better, hopefully not just staying silent for the sake of fear of ridicule. However, I wouldn’t have thought making him the Head of Creative would then be a great idea.

Head of Creative for a bloke who’s done nothing but moan about the creative process for years doesn’t instil any confidence in myself or his capability to lead a creative vision for the team.

However, I’m glad to hopefully be proven wrong in years to come, but for me as far as Kratos is concerned, it’s not more creativity that’s needed, it’s to move on from him.

However, as I said originally I totally get I’m in the minority. And of course wish Barlog all the best in his endeavours!

You’ll no doubt get to play your favourite GoW’s fully remastered in no time at all!

Then on the PS7 we can all play them again! 😂

Be very interesting to see where the franchise goes in years to come! I’m excited to play Laufey, though Ragnarok is proving to be a bit of a chore.

Not much for Barlog personally, but still interested to see where things go moving forwards.

I’m almost putting my hopes on it not focusing on Kratos moving forwards for a good few years, as he’s my least favourite part of the series.

However, yes, I am aware I’m likely in the minority.

Mainly bit of Warzone, BF and CoD multiplayer with the missus in-between work, and then maybe a scattering of Switch 2 gaming.

Other than that, a whole lot of work on the house renovation and gardens whilst trying to also do actual work.

Whatever you're all getting up to, have lots of fun doing it!

Really looking forward to Laufey, Wolverine I personally feel a little more concerned about, with regards the enjoyment I shall gain from it.

But I’ll buy both and no doubt enjoy looking at the artistry of them both no matter what, I won’t be rushing to purchase either, as unless it’s a multiplayer game I need to play with others in my group, I never do.

However, looking forward to them both at some point after release!

@8bitOG But I still was able to use many of my digital games yesterday when PSN was down.

That’s the issue, it’s an argument over semantics at this point.

What should be the one and only set of arguments that gamers use now, is removing physical removes choice for a range of demographics of consumer, and we all need better rights.

The medium of holding a license is the focus in all these comments, when it should be the laws surrounding the license that’s the issue.

This, and this alone is why these companies win, as they’re literally out there changing and lobbying for destructive laws and changes to our hobby, and people in these comments want to go “okay well my just as pointless license as cloud is on disc so I’m superior”.

We are all in the same boat, no one in the gaming community is winning right now. So I do agree with you, I really do, I think more choice and rights as a consumer is needed.

But that sure hell isn’t what people choose to discuss at large in these threads.

@SpaceGhostC2C That’s exactly it. I really do love so many physical mediums for all the media I love. However, I don’t come to a room full of strangers and declare it legally above their rights knowing for well it isn’t and use that as a basis for my points.

If people fear losing what they value, they need to state that, stick to it and not turn this into some righteous crusade of legal rights, because they’re not fighting for better consumer rights in wanting discs to stay. Not from a legal perspective.

They’re focusing on keeping something they love for numerous reasons, which is amazing and I love that. I just dislike the disingenuous nature of many of the points that get raised.

It divides people so easily when realistically the same laws apply to us all. So we then start arguing over the division we’ve created instead of again, the laws that impact us all.

@ElPenitente I genuinely don’t know why I try, the amount of people who just glaze over what a disc is, the moment they first bring up ownership and legal rights, then it always hours into the debate later turns out they don’t care about all that and just use it as a straw man to prop up second hand and looking at it on a shelf.

Which is why I tell people repeatedly, use these things you will miss about physical to declare why you love it. I adore nice things on shelves too, but I’m not going to sit here and pretend my Switch 2 game cartridge is any more useful in a post apocalyptic future than a cloud based file. Or that my legal rights are so much different.

@8bitOG But @ElPenitente isn’t saying a disc doesn’t always require PSN to use it, they were putting across a rebuttal to you first stating in a reply to an argument based on ownership, but you don’t own anything other than the license on the disc. It literally is the same license and the same laws protecting it as a digital copy in a cloud.

So we can all agree we want better ownership rights, fighting for a license on a disc is valid for many, but not remotely legally anything to do with having more rights from a literal, legal only argument.

We can’t keep moving the goal posts. People either want better rights, which means they have to admit they have the same rights as digital using a disc, and get past the bull marketing that’s said otherwise for the sake of selling plastic, or we shall keep going in circles.

@TheSingularity Always clapping back with common sense, love to see it!

@dodgykebaab So just to confirm for all the ladies and gentlemen joining this thread later, this is an issue with the Japanese laws that someone would take issue with, and both Rockstar and Sony are following said laws?

Also, thanks for all of that information, you should run a PlayStation site, clearly got the knack for a bit of investigative journalism instead of sensationalism.

It’s between Halo and Paw Patrol: Dino World for me, it’s going to be a hard choice of which to play first!

Paw Patrol, it’s obviously going to be Paw Patrol, I mean it’s dinosaurs! Rawwwwrrrr!

@Leonm I’ve looked at your comment history since 2020, it would appear you’re not even wanting to be a part of PlayStation. In fact spending 6 years not really showing any interest at all.

Therefore my best advice would be to leave the brand, leave this site and get on with other wonderful things you enjoy in your life.

I mean your entire history since 2020 is negative. No thanks.

@johnedwin Now why doesn’t that surprise me, must base their next video ideas on the comments section of this site.

I doubt many are focusing on this being a fault of Amazon Web Services and the fact Amazon Firesticks have also been dodgy lately haha.

I need a YouTube channel, apparently it’s easy to create content, you just think of how to misinform in the most dramatic fashion, and the rest takes care of itself.

@Zuljaras Yeah, I see there’s no use in discussing this matter further. You’re not even addressing the fact of anything I have raised, the article raises or what the Japanese laws raise.

The actual logical elements to this.

You clearly don’t wish to actually discuss anything and just want to vent anger. I hope it gets you those physical discs.

What an utter waste of time.

@Zuljaras All my original point was, you are angry at Sony and Rockstar for following the law in a country, whereby the only current solution would be to not sell the code at all (even less choice to the consumer), or to break the law.

Again, that’s the original point of both this article and my comment. You can move the goalpost as much as you want, but the crux to this is that you’re trying to declare hatred for this situation towards a company that has quite literally no say in the matter.

And again, if we even include your last comment, Rockstar and TakeTwo have decided to not release a physical GTA copy at the same time as digital.

Again, not related to a decision Sony have made.

Be angry for things Sony has done you don’t like. Being angry at Sony for a decision they haven’t made weakens this whole debate not strengthens it.

But then many here don’t seem to want to discuss the actual matter at hand, they just want to shout from the rooftops about their anger and solving nothing.

@Zuljaras So even when blaming Sony for this publicly makes the person look like a fool, you encourage it in yourself and others?

I mean I get not liking Sony's decision on physical, it’s pants, I agree.

But that’s like me not liking McDonald’s and then going on to a McDonald’s fan site to complain about a decision Burger King have made and yet blaming McDonald’s.

As one would expect, I’d get laughed out of the forum. Surely.

@Zuljaras Because if say someone writes something as fact, or a really generally held belief that is verging on stupidity, it shouldn’t be applauded. We should want to discuss things that are factual and that matter.

From my understanding, this appears to be a Japanese law, as such, why aren’t people stating their dismay for the Japanese government relating to this stupid law?

Because to recap, we have a lot of people in the comments who don’t reside in Japan, stating they are angry at Sony for abiding by the laws of Japan, but no one seems to be angry at the actual government that has formed and/or not amended the law.

Be angry at Sony for many things, being angry at Sony for doing what they legally need to do, and not being angry at the lawmakers is a whole different element.

@The-punishr Oh I agree, it should be.

@Zuljaras I think a lot of what Sony do is dogsh*t to be honest, I just like pointing out weak arguments for consumer rights when I see them. I don’t exactly see anyone here mentioning any crusade of hiring a legal team that they’re going on in helping any of us consumers at all.

Sony, as are all companies of that scale utterly terrible and a waste of space at times, it doesn’t mean everyone stating something against them is in the right.

@The-punishr It’s not your legal right to download it whenever you like at all, otherwise there wouldn’t be laws to the contrary.

It is common sense and our desire to want to download it whenever we like, it’s not written into law.

Same as it’s not my legal right in 30 years time to be able to play any of the games I have.

Rights, desires, wants, needs and what should be common sense are not all the same.

Maybe, just maybe they know something about the end of times that we don’t, maybe we won’t need to worry about gaming after that point, we shall all have collectively witnessed the end of times!

Anyway, enough of any potential positives … this is odd and sort of sucks, but I’m sure there’s a legal obligation as stated they have to follow. Never heard of it myself, but I’ve never seen a pigeon carry a Nintendo Switch cartridge, doesn’t mean it can’t.

For what’s it’s worth, Amazon Web Services (yes the actual company at fault), appears to be bringing things back online, on behalf of PlayStation.

As whilst I was working my missus appears to have downloaded and started playing Fall Guys.

Which is both a positive and a negative.

@ProfessorNiggle Absolutely! It will be so much better when there are other retailers selling the codes, for those of course happy with digital games.

Still, doesn't solve the physical game debate, but just wanted to let you know in all the noise of all this, very much what you are asking for is coming.

As for anything further on physical, well, that ship is sailing away into the night for PlayStation, sadly.

@ProfessorNiggle In Sony's statement they said exactly that, that following 2028 there will indeed be other retailers selling their games (likely even just codes as you mention).

So, think how used to happen (as you mentioned), and what still happens with Nintendo and Xbox now.

If that is what you are asking for, just wanted to point out Sony agrees and already stated as such.

@SteveButler2210 Now “Friend Activity” is back up on the Welcome part of the UI for the PS5.

Trophies are gone from both mine and my partners accounts (my work PSN account won’t even load into my user).

And some other bits now seem to be failing. But I can still purchase a game (tested buying a cheap game off my wishlist).

But then I can’t access the same stuff online.

Ah well, I’m sure it’ll be fixed soon. Like I said earlier on this site, Xbox Network was down yesterday too.

So, to update:

My PS App on iPhone works fine, other than “Game Library”.

Booted up PS5 in household, PS Plus section doesn’t load, and Friend Acitivuty doesn’t load on the Welcome UI menu either.

However, like my PS App, the store is working.

Just booted up Fortnite as a quick multiplayer server and ID check with Sony servers, and it’s failing to load.

My partners PS App logged her out, she then requested text/email 2 Factor code and it took 10 minutes or just under.

Midlands UK - LilaConnect BB.

PS App on my iPhone in the Midlands UK working fine. Haven’t booted up PS5 yet in the household though, will try in a jiffy!

@Nalim Aahhh, that makes more sense! Thanks for clarifying!

@Frmknst Xbox Network was down yesterday for a period of time in the afternoon and evening here in the UK, so me and the missus jumped on PSN (as she originally planned to go on some Xbox stuff), and PSN wasn’t down for us in the UK.

Was it the entire network in some country in particular?

@Acquiescence Sadly, though still impressively, SEGA is worth around 3 billion dollars, ish.

Now that isn’t money they even have in the bank, but let’s assume it is to inflate the numbers in their favour even more.

Sony spent over 2 billion just in R&D alone for their hardware, which included for the PS5. That’s not counting manufacturing, distribution, and so on.

To enter the hardware market again now would be incredibly tough, though yes, I also would love to see a successor to the Dreamcast. Arguably my favourite console of all time, and the reason I don’t place bets, because my gosh did I believe in that console haha.

But yes, for them to create and launch a console, it would need to be almost so cheap and terribly lacking in anything competitive, they’d have to go very niche with a compelling selling point.

It’s a shame, I really would love to see another venture in the market though.

Loving the visuals, I’ll be of course picking this up! Hoping it feels quite a bit different to Spider-Man. But if doesn’t, I’m happy to look at the pretty pixels. Haha.

@PS_No_Games You joined an hour ago just to say that? That’s literally it? Surely you have more in you than that … surely!

Imagine waiting to join, then the best insult you can do is to call people here a male chicken.

@UltraPunk But then do you mean a customer like you who buys second hand, or new? Because if a second hand consumer it’s less valuable as a statistic than someone who buys PS6, no physical and spends £7.99 every 6 months on Fortnite.

I’m not having a go at you by the way, but I think the loss of the physical buyers (not counting second hand), loses Sony a lot more publicly perceived consumer love than it loses them financially.

So, in that I agree with you.

@themightyant It is indeed true that everyone can cherry pick data. I would also put to the community (maybe due to the journalism they’re consuming instead of the reports Mat produces for the industry), that Mat actually agrees with many a point that the community has made as of late.

In fact, not so long ago in some of his detailing, he wrote he believes the industry is becoming far more unstable and focused/weighted far too heavily on factors that don’t promote long term growth (evergreen titles such as Fortnite/CoD).

Much like a consumer chowing down on a McDonald’s won’t tend to look at the financial reports, survey findings and analytics of McDonald’s Corp, I don’t expect gamers to read everything Mat produces.

However, using your comments (well made that I agree with), as a launch pad, what many don’t actually know is Mat agrees with much of what is said here (by that I mean the reasoned comments not the more emotionally charged ones).

Having said all this though, I understand journalists can’t just repeat 130 odd pages of report and expect gamers to read it as an article at a glance, that’s not how modern day journalism works.

But I would encourage anyone interested to reads as much of Mat’s reports as they can, as it actually supports a wide range of options and ideas, far more so than many would assume.

@UltraPunk I think your new username should be “UltraHyperbole”.

There will not be a “billion” lost in digital sales from any projection and modelling, based on a PS6 not selling as well as say a PS5.

No, physical buyers do not prop up a platform anywhere near as much as the community likes to tell itself with false egocentric claims of pandering to themselves.

No, second hand gaming isn’t beneficial at all, so we can’t include those numbers either (though they are a large part of the physical market), and yes some people buy DLC, but due to the fact platform holders know the numbers of DLC sold, and they’d even know if the original game file came from a disc, they’d then be able to match DLC upsell in relation to second hand discs.

No, there is nothing to suggest Sony will become the new Atari, not even Microsoft is going to allow Xbox to become the next Atari, the next SEGA at most (with regards to Xbox).

I support your desire and argument for physical, I adore it on many a platform too, but using hyperbolic language and logic to put forward a point loses the point entirely.

Just saying “I support physical as it means a lot to me, my childhood, my ability to fund my hobby reasonably and because I value the physicality of it.”

That alone speaks volumes more than all you typed. You don’t have to use hyperbole to make a good point, the good point is you like physical, the ability to buy second hand and value the medium. That alone is the good point.