@Rich33 Agreed on all points! I think Sony have done a terrible job regarding their PR team delving into anything of note for years.
Also agreed, if I were them, I would have either focused on waiting to provide the news to then counter it with something else immediately, or provide all the news in one concise swoop.
This debating, speculation and what ifs and maybes from the community and journalists only serves to detract from both the points Sony may later wish to make, or the reality of the situation at hand.
All I know, is that they are well aware of wanting to keep people able to play PS5 titles and have a plan for that. That is all I know and I am aware they will of course have to reveal that at the latest with the PS6 official reveal.
However, by that time, we could be 6-12 or so months or more knee deep in all manner of rumours, speculation and people darting all around the place with ideas.
I’m exactly with you, on the fact that for me, until all the plan is public, I shall remain on the fence as to how I then react and what I next do. As it stands, if I buy a digital copy of CoD on PS5, my partner and I can still play it in multiplayer with more freedom than on Switch 2.
So immediately that’s one of the competitors that does physical media, yet is oddly both behind and ahead digital license usage wise. So for many reasons, including my game catalogue, exclusives and ease of the ecosystem I just can’t jump ship randomly.
So will decide how to react to this when I know all of the information. At the moment the only decider of my gaming fate is what Sony does next, not a comments section online.
@Rich33 * Maybe once some of the more 'extreme voices' have calmed, Sony might start talking about this.*
Indeed, it’s almost like a multibillion £/$/¥ company has a plan for its own future. (Sarcasm not aimed at yourself by the way of course)
Much needs to be revealed, however, I would also state it is a year and a half away and therefore one would expect all to be revealed closer to the solidification of plans that shall be executed.
A responsible adult waits until the children have stopped shouting to make their point, instead of shouting over them.
Though I don’t see us all as children, from a business perspective the public are definitely the children in this instance.
Sony will no doubt have a lot more to say on the matter in good time, much like Value didn’t have much if anything to say about the Steam Machine or even its existence at this time period away from its launch.
@PuppetMaster What an absolute pain in the backside!
Hmm, let me know if you ever want it physically instead, as I can get the Japanese one off my friend in the coming months when I visit him and mail it to you.
I know it would cost the mailing cost, but I don’t mind paying that nonsense. Anyway, I’ll be in Japan in September, so if you want the disc copy I’ll send it to you free of charge after then!
@PuppetMaster Have you at any point (from memory), deleted the account/user from the PS3 that purchased the game to begin with?
As in, am I correct in assuming you bought it under your PSN account back then, being the same account you use now to log into PS3, which hasn’t been removed from the console at any point, and you’re now trying to load it with the same account?
I only ask as there was an old workaround that worked ages ago for some, but all depends on what the user has done.
You know what, I’ll give it a go, as I love a good racing game as much as the next virtual petrol head. Will say though, seems quite a bold move from them!
@zebric21 Oh I completely understand. But as I stated to another commenter, those Steam numbers will carry on going up due to what Valve is doing to disrupt the PC space. They’re creating a console ecosystem and slowly weening the PC market that is willing to be swayed by it.
Look at Steam Deck and Steam Machine, both use Steam OS, basically UNIX with a Proton Layer slathered over it. Now whilst Valve try really, really hard to tell people it’s console-like, not a console, they’re marketing a product and belief system, they’re not in the market of selling truths.
Their systems make purchasing and playing in the Steam ecosystem lovely, all cozy and funnily enough, nothing remotely new to any of us familiar with a console.
They’re smart, they almost single-handedly got rid of physical PC games, then now won’t give up on creating a box that directs you to their storefront and their products with the same ease as a console.
They’re also smart because they know though many say, oh look, but it’s not a console as it can be used as a PC, they’re well aware most won’t do that.
If people really wanted to use Linux for a desktop they would already be doing so, I use Ubuntu daily, but trying to convince anyone else is sometimes like slamming my head in the car door.
So for the most part, they’re doing exactly what Sony is doing, but in reverse. Sony created the console first and then the games and now making them digital only.
Valve is doing exactly the same thing, just started by making it all digital to begin with.
Due to population increases Steam numbers will grow, but that can be said about many industries, it doesn’t mean many of those people loading up Steam ever intended to be a console purchaser though.
I get your complaints and frustration, I share it too, but after using a PC all day long, and after starting my journey in gaming on a PC, they’re not the answer; they just different.
And it is fool made of anyone who believes Valve and many others won’t gain as much of the market and create a locked down system the moment they can, Valve are even literally marketing it to people right now.
All Valve can offer you is a closed storefront that if you want to go and install and use GOG purchases you can, but many don’t, hence Steam numbers.
So if Sony say also allowed you to install say a game from another storefront, that immediately means they’re already ahead of PC in one fell swoop.
As Valve doesn’t offer physical, their ToS can and are changed, they offer another storefront not because they want to, but it’s good marketing and they can’t prevent it in an open PC system, and they now want you to have a console like experience.
This is what I’m telling people, use GOG and GOG only on PC, or be very careful about what you wish for.
What we need is better rights and values as consumers from all companies in the industry. All this talk of hopping from one system to another does nothing for saving anything we value, it just temporarily boosts the pockets of those that laugh down at us.
Mark my words, the moment Valve sees growth in a closed loop system (as they are beginning to), they will branch out as far as they can. They don’t like GOG anymore than they like Windows or Sony after all.
@Fabivito I don’t actually necessarily disagree, but 50 million consoles sold for a PS6, depending on the pricing structure of PS Plus and game sales at the time certainly don’t make it a failure.
The Switch 2 is considered a success already and it’s at around 20-21 million in sales as of May this year.
Sales of consoles matter less when the sales to people who buy second hand are the ones that have gone and upped sticks to another platform.
If the ones that stay are indeed as you say the loyalists shall we say, well then they’re exactly who Sony needs to stay.
A random household buying a console (sometimes sold at a loss), and only buying second hand games for their three kids at a store doesn’t support Sony. So there’s no loss to them.
So I totally agree, but I also know you can have things like a Steam Machine be around £1,000 and still sell all stock despite being twice the price of a PS5. It’s an odd market to be in.
@zebric21 I totally get your point about you preferring PC, and yes it can be used for work.
However, I would just like to point out that you wouldn’t need to sell someone on the benefits of a PC being for work too, as if they need a PC for work they will already have one.
Then those that do have one for work will likely not want to spend the rest of their free time in front of said PC.
There are many benefits to a console ecosystem, to many a person, the fact PC has what it’s always had (choice, options, power), don’t invalidate the favourable aspects of a console over those PC features.
It’s just I’m not going to sell my mother in-law, or a paramedic, or someone who works a physical in person job of any kind on the benefits of a PC because you can make money from it.
Working from home and building a gaming rig are two very different attitudes to the PC ecosystem, and they don’t always play well together.
Just wanted to state, despite yes all of these three main companies being absolutely dreadful at times, that doesn’t suddenly delete many of the reasons people want a console over a PC.
Take what Valve are trying to do with their Steam OS, yes they say on the Steam Machine and Steam Deck you have “choice” where to buy your games. They’re correct, not a lie!
However, they’re doing their damn best to make anything but purchasing on those devices from anything other than Steam more tiresome.
And don’t get me started on Windows 11, it’s like asking an ex to repeatedly punch you in the face whilst they occasionally tickle you.
@Fabivito I personally like to imagine he counts them via hand one by one, whilst listening to Venga Boys on repeat.
And as for your point, I guess that’s just it, we have limited data, the data we do have represents both arguments for and against physical and neither the business or the consumer are willing to bend.
My one and only real thought on this that has remained in its entirety is that physical (if wanting to be cut by Sony), should have been announced to be ending when support for the PS5 does.
Though I would prefer physical options remain, what actually shocks me far, far more than the fact it’s being stamped out by the industry, is the fact they’re rushing to get to it needlessly.
Forgetting second hand, because of course that’s never going to be a good argument for a business to keep producing a medium from a business perspective. If say they’ve done this to “save money”, surely the money gained from the 77m discs sold makes at least evens, if not of course one would assume a sustained profit of sorts.
After of course manufacturing, distribution, sales channels percentages and so on are accounted for. Because if physical never made them a profit, they wouldn’t have done it in the first place.
So whilst I agree with your point it’s a large chunk to dismiss from the books, the counter argument for it also seems weak. As in, they would counter to save money, but then they make a profit from it as a whole, surely. I can’t imagine producing 77m of any mass marketed product and failing to make a profit unless I’m literally inept in every way shape and form at accounting for the costs involved.
So that then leaves us one only true reason, second hand/trading. Just like VHS, DVD burners, second hand music and the like, the one thing that all the industry hates is a buyer who lines the (no doubt incredibly corrupt) pockets of CEX more than their own.
That’s why I’ve told people time and time again, even if someone’s argument is that they too don’t buy second hand, the industries argument will always be, but many still can and do.
It’s happened to so much of the mediums available and that’s the true crux in all of this. They’re yet to create a physical item at a price mass markets purchase, that goes on a shelf but also can’t be legally traded.
Physical would stay if they could figure out a way to prevent people from supporting trading of said physical.
@ShadowRJ I agree fully! You’ve got some really great ideas. Now if only you had a few billion laying around and we could actually get this all in order. 😂
@Flaming_Kaiser Exactly! Couldn’t agree more. Then they also know (as many threads on here showcase), consumers at large don’t even know what their point is. This cause would be so much impactful if we could at large mobilise with a structured set of points and approach.
I adore physical, but even I read through a lot of people’s points and go “yeah, I wouldn’t struggle to counter that with a business perspective”.
I think I’m just looking for unity and strength in a place that isn’t ready to show it as a whole.
Couldn’t agree more though, options to trade, to sell and to share don’t ever last for the most part. It’s why now options for me to share a TV show I watched on TV are limited. They don’t want me passing a copy of “insert TV show name here” to my sister, they want me to tell my sister to stream it and watch product placements for “insert useless product here”, and then count as an additional viewer.
@ShadowRJ Argos are even selling GTA 6 code in a box for £67.99.
Then if people used ShopTo and Loaded for their PSN credit they’d also never buy at PSN prices again.
No developer in their right mind is looking at Rockstar and thinking “we can emulate that utter egotistical nonsense of an attitude as a developer”
EA as a publisher tried it and got levelled very quickly with that sort of attitude.
Literally, no PSN price is the actual price if you simply top up your wallet with companies that have been going for in some cases over half of the PlayStations lifetime.
I think we all just need to be careful with the what ifs and maybes, there’s a lot of people using points to their arguments that are based on what ifs.
That’s no different to my saying what if your physical collection is burgled, what if you have a house fire or flood, what if you go broke one year and need to sell everything you have including physical games to even eat.
All we know right now for a fact is that IP holds within media and entertainment hate us having the ability to reproduce or hold on to their works.
VHS taken away, MiniDisc, BetaMax, Freeview TV recorders in decline, less films and TV going to physical media. Even music was attempted to go all streaming, and it’s only because the artists made next to nothing off streaming it even went back to physical.
So we know that is the stance of the industry at large, trading a game, and then them not profiting even a little off it is not good for their business. That’s common sense.
We also know game stores selling second hand games are in dramatic decline compared to mine, and many other peoples childhoods. Again, we know this a fact.
So we know the trend for the consumer and the desire of the industry are well established facts. They’ve proven they will remove media to make sure we divert to a stream of purchasing that cuts out trading, and we know on the whole consumers are declining in their purchasing of physical games.
What we don’t know is the plan of future developer and publisher pricing models, we don’t know if the PS6 will have an external drive and we don’t know it’s backwards capability.
So everyone could do with being frustrated by Sony at what is happening, but the moment we use what ifs we’ve sort of stopped talking about the here and now and what’s happening.
I like your ideas of more boutique printers, and that no doubt would mean increasing pricing (see vinyl), but it keeps the medium alive.
No one, I repeat no one should be paying for full price of games on PSN if they simply too up their wallet before hand, and no one should be unaware of how industry wants physical and tradable dead, and consumer trends at large show (other than a bit on the music side), most are okay with that.
But I don’t think arguing about the future of a potential game released in 2037 from a publisher inspired by Rockstar will help further any physical discs being produced.
We all need to stick to our opinions of physical staying, or going for and against, but without using anything else to prop those ideas up other than known facts.
We can’t have people in this thread accusing analysts of using conjecture and guess work with figures for us to then counter it with guesswork, otherwise it’s just a race and circle of mistrusts and misinformation to the bottom.
@ShadowRJ Very good point on needing to buy them, but I think Ghost is trying to point out not a counter to your point, but a counter to the fact that people are saying if purchased their “digital library” will be unable to be accessed years down the line.
If you don’t purchase a game, it won’t be available, but many have stated in the run up to this news their purchased digital games they fear losing. Which as of yet Ghost is stating that will likely not be the case.
@Almost_Ghostly Oh gosh, no worries at all! There’s a lot here misunderstanding an awful lot of things, you misunderstanding my being sarcastic and my failing to convey sarcasm is the least of our worries if much of this thread is to be believed.
I fear for the populace far more than I fear for physical, that’s for sure.
@Almost_Ghostly Ah yes, that’s sarcasm to counter the point of the commenter I was replying to. If you read the comment in its entirety it shows I agree with you and not them. Haha.
@Almost_Ghostly I’m confused by your comment, what never happened? I’ve not stated anything to the contrary to what you have just stated. In fact, I agree with your comment, hence why I wouldn’t have stated something to the contrary.
@SEVENTEENSOILS Both my parents have sadly passed, but I just wanted to pop by and say that I completely get that feeling of wanting nothing more than to have a parent back.
That PC will go on to mean the world to you long after it’s ceased being a viable gaming/functional option in your home.
Your dad now gets to live on in your memories, so never stop sharing anything you have to say about his life and what he meant to you.
One day, just like with myself now, there will reach a time where the smells, sights and sounds of that person fade and recalling it is harder than you’d ever want. Remembering them and telling the world about them means those moments never get as hard as they could be.
Game where you want, none of this realistically matters to any of us as much as those we love, love conquers all, even gaming.
Just be loyal to yourself and your father’s memories, when we are all on our death beds I hope to God we barely remember any of this online chatter and only remember the good times we shared with great people.
So if none of this thread matters on your deathbed, go load up that PC, put on some music and know tomorrow you can talk about your dad and a person worth responding to will stop, listen and care.
@RoomWithaMoose Absolutely, and with that I can completely agree. I wish I could say everyone would get what they want from this. Who doesn’t love a happy ending?!
I think what I wish is more could describe things more like how you and a few others have. I don’t expect it to be all void of emotion, but I think when it loses all reasoning arguments start to become about the person not the cause.
That’s what I like about the long conversations I have here, more often than not I’m agreeing with the person, I’m just not wishing to phrase it or see it as black and white. I guess I just prefer nuance to a total void.
@RoomWithaMoose I would say irrational, but not unaware of their actions and indeed as adults (one would hope), not void of responsibility.
I think that’s where I get irked about all this, I actually support physical in all forms staying for this and all forms of media, but then it’s when people go out of their way as grown adults to not show constraint and responsibility over their actions.
It’s like the excuse of when people say “oh but they’re grieving”, when a person commits a terrible crime, but then it doesn’t warrant excusing an adult losing their ability to control their own actions.
But I totally agree with you in spirit, it’s just an adult should be able to spot themselves being irrational and correct it. Irrational thoughts are normal for us all, refusing to correct them is not.
I just think as a Dev that’s had a threat made to his daughter about this, resulting in someone alluding to have found my work details via literally guesswork from here (I changed my user here and now they’ve been arrested on other crimes), this really can get serious very quickly.
I laugh a lot of it off, but you’d be surprised what an uprising this has from a very dark place.
All it takes is for one person to be told their anger, vitriol and pain is warranted and those seen to be associated need to “pay”.
But yes, I hope more people get what they want, but I also hope some of the irrationality seen online calms a little, as no one listens to a person being irrational, including businesses.
@get2sammyb Serious question, are they even “good” memes?
Okay that’s besides the point I know, but at this point I’m not really sure what to say, other than I get the disgruntlement, but think it is indeed misdirected massively.
@PanFriedSoup Thank you for the reminder! Good grief you’re bloody good!
I’m lurking online for the physical of all the X-Files but may have to get them when I go Stateside again, as they’re going up in price for the boxset here.
@PanFriedSoup Haha, thank you! Wait until my partner gets to the spontaneous combustion episode! She’s absolutely (and admits not logically), terrified of it happening to her.
I should delve into the why behind that, but I’ll save that for after the episode.
@get2sammyb You seem to suggest a very logical set of ideals as a proposal of what could be, I'd support and encourage that. I'd actually purchase more on disc if I knew it would be more of the "game" so to speak, so after patches, maybe with booklets and so on.
@somnambulance Oh, I can assure you, this is almost entirely a beg and pleading mission from both companies that sell second hand games (the original Change.org Petition Creator), Cex, GAME and the like ... then those who buy second hand.
Now I see nothing wrong with that, I do find myself getting a slight bit of personal frustration from how disingenuous some people/companies have been with their motives.
However, I support second hand anything, I just of course also understand, as Sammy has pointed out and we all know, IP holders get no money from second hand trading, so all industries try to find ways to monopolise on it.
@The-punishr I do remember when the PS4 came out, everyone moved to PC and other consoles then too, due to a lack of backwards compatibility with all three previous consoles, didn't they? Oh, wait ...
I'm all for PC gaming, but let's not all of a sudden pretend that any other console is going to be cheap the tail end of this decade, or that PC parts are going to be well priced.
@somnambulance Resale is something all platform holders try to gain information on, in a rather unscrupulous way or two. However, no, second hand trading does not account for any sale with a platform to the platform holder and benefits them in no way directly.
@Oram77 Haha, I totally get that, for me after owning the Portal, I'm down for giving it a go on the Switch 2. I love the idea of relaxing a bit on the sofa or something to a quick game or two. For me more than anything it's the jumping between the logos for the buttons on the devices that throws me!
I just wish Marathon was on the Switch 2, as if I hop into it again and mesh with it I could actually have it portable, which is appealing for the garden and sofa etc.
And just to add, my dad used to say “You want your Japanese cartoons on now, Josh?”
So, in the Western world I think we all quietly moved to more Asian descriptors out of a wish to not potentially be mistaken for being racist etc. I mean my dad even used to call them Asian comics, but I guess now I wouldn’t go around telling people I’m into Asian comics instead of manga, as it sounds a little odd to some.
Even though many from said countries would say British cartoon, or Western Cartoon or American cartoon and so forth and think nothing of it.
@rjejr So, Donghua is sort of understood to refer to specifically not just Chinese cartoons, but ones that are heavily influenced by their culture too, one could argue we in the Western world use anime in exactly the same way.
But it can also refer to 2D and 3D. But yes, as @IntrepidWombat rightly says, it’s all just nonsense and a bit of a much of muchness using them all separately.
From the Asian’s I have known in both territories, none of them care for if we call it a cartoon, animation, anime and so on. Mainly just so long as we appreciate it!
Just so fascinating to see it all be used and changed about depending on the country. Much like IntrepidWombat states, I was sort of being cheeky myself, as I know of no one in those counties that will care.
Fantastic to think of many of the stunt performers playing the games and taking inspiration from them.
The games in the main are really great in short bursts for me, I completed the first, got platinum and enjoyed it quite a bit. However, Miles is a tough slog for me (simply due to it feeling more of the same), and I’m yet to do anything other than load up the newest one.
I look forward to completing them all fully, but I think I did myself a disservice by playing them one after another, or at least trying to.
Excited to see the film in the theatre though, so that’s something to look forward to from the franchise in an immediate sense.
@IntrepidWombat Good point regarding anime vs donghua.
Always found it interesting how in the Western world we stick to naming it an anime or donghua, yet we would more normally say Japanese or Chinese cartoon many moons ago.
Like how my Japanese friend sometimes uses anime to describe all animation, as it’s technically just a shortening of animation.
Then sometimes my friend would use a phrase to describe the country of origin and then that it’s an anime.
Fascinating though how Westerners seem to get a lot more hung up on the naming of animation than many in said countries do for ours.
@Swirly Haha, same! Yet unfortunately having gone outside and been scanned by facial recognition cameras in the street, or in shops and whatnot, I figured it's the least of the worries we all have.
However, you take some time to think it through, and hopefully it all pans out where you feel comfortable enough in the end.
You're a stronger man than I! I truly hit my mental capacity to process what I needed to do with this game, I couldn't keep hitting my head against that wall.
Now Resogun, every day I worked on that sucker, but this, it's a whole new breed of determination that's required!
Comments 553
Re: Blacks Ops Fans Sure Showed Up for PS5's Overpriced Call of Duty Ports
@Rambo-kind Did your grandpa also register that fun for some is not fun for all? Or was he too busy playing CoD to comment further?
I jest of course, haha.
It's like Rambo really, utter gutter trash to me, but I'm sure someone likes it!
Re: Blacks Ops Fans Sure Showed Up for PS5's Overpriced Call of Duty Ports
I adore CoD, but I refunded mine prior to playing based on many saying do not bother (who actually played).
However, I shall support CoD indefinitely, and I am happy to sucketh on that teeteth forever more. You're welcome.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Rich33 Agreed on all points! I think Sony have done a terrible job regarding their PR team delving into anything of note for years.
Also agreed, if I were them, I would have either focused on waiting to provide the news to then counter it with something else immediately, or provide all the news in one concise swoop.
This debating, speculation and what ifs and maybes from the community and journalists only serves to detract from both the points Sony may later wish to make, or the reality of the situation at hand.
All I know, is that they are well aware of wanting to keep people able to play PS5 titles and have a plan for that. That is all I know and I am aware they will of course have to reveal that at the latest with the PS6 official reveal.
However, by that time, we could be 6-12 or so months or more knee deep in all manner of rumours, speculation and people darting all around the place with ideas.
I’m exactly with you, on the fact that for me, until all the plan is public, I shall remain on the fence as to how I then react and what I next do. As it stands, if I buy a digital copy of CoD on PS5, my partner and I can still play it in multiplayer with more freedom than on Switch 2.
So immediately that’s one of the competitors that does physical media, yet is oddly both behind and ahead digital license usage wise. So for many reasons, including my game catalogue, exclusives and ease of the ecosystem I just can’t jump ship randomly.
So will decide how to react to this when I know all of the information. At the moment the only decider of my gaming fate is what Sony does next, not a comments section online.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Rich33 * Maybe once some of the more 'extreme voices' have calmed, Sony might start talking about this.*
Indeed, it’s almost like a multibillion £/$/¥ company has a plan for its own future. (Sarcasm not aimed at yourself by the way of course)
Much needs to be revealed, however, I would also state it is a year and a half away and therefore one would expect all to be revealed closer to the solidification of plans that shall be executed.
A responsible adult waits until the children have stopped shouting to make their point, instead of shouting over them.
Though I don’t see us all as children, from a business perspective the public are definitely the children in this instance.
Sony will no doubt have a lot more to say on the matter in good time, much like Value didn’t have much if anything to say about the Steam Machine or even its existence at this time period away from its launch.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@PuppetMaster What an absolute pain in the backside!
Hmm, let me know if you ever want it physically instead, as I can get the Japanese one off my friend in the coming months when I visit him and mail it to you.
I know it would cost the mailing cost, but I don’t mind paying that nonsense. Anyway, I’ll be in Japan in September, so if you want the disc copy I’ll send it to you free of charge after then!
Shame that is, what a pain.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@PuppetMaster Have you at any point (from memory), deleted the account/user from the PS3 that purchased the game to begin with?
As in, am I correct in assuming you bought it under your PSN account back then, being the same account you use now to log into PS3, which hasn’t been removed from the console at any point, and you’re now trying to load it with the same account?
I only ask as there was an old workaround that worked ages ago for some, but all depends on what the user has done.
Re: Against All Odds, Disappointing Arcade Racer Wreckreation Is Getting a PS5 Sequel
You know what, I’ll give it a go, as I love a good racing game as much as the next virtual petrol head. Will say though, seems quite a bold move from them!
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@zebric21 Oh I completely understand. But as I stated to another commenter, those Steam numbers will carry on going up due to what Valve is doing to disrupt the PC space. They’re creating a console ecosystem and slowly weening the PC market that is willing to be swayed by it.
Look at Steam Deck and Steam Machine, both use Steam OS, basically UNIX with a Proton Layer slathered over it. Now whilst Valve try really, really hard to tell people it’s console-like, not a console, they’re marketing a product and belief system, they’re not in the market of selling truths.
Their systems make purchasing and playing in the Steam ecosystem lovely, all cozy and funnily enough, nothing remotely new to any of us familiar with a console.
They’re smart, they almost single-handedly got rid of physical PC games, then now won’t give up on creating a box that directs you to their storefront and their products with the same ease as a console.
They’re also smart because they know though many say, oh look, but it’s not a console as it can be used as a PC, they’re well aware most won’t do that.
If people really wanted to use Linux for a desktop they would already be doing so, I use Ubuntu daily, but trying to convince anyone else is sometimes like slamming my head in the car door.
So for the most part, they’re doing exactly what Sony is doing, but in reverse. Sony created the console first and then the games and now making them digital only.
Valve is doing exactly the same thing, just started by making it all digital to begin with.
Due to population increases Steam numbers will grow, but that can be said about many industries, it doesn’t mean many of those people loading up Steam ever intended to be a console purchaser though.
I get your complaints and frustration, I share it too, but after using a PC all day long, and after starting my journey in gaming on a PC, they’re not the answer; they just different.
And it is fool made of anyone who believes Valve and many others won’t gain as much of the market and create a locked down system the moment they can, Valve are even literally marketing it to people right now.
All Valve can offer you is a closed storefront that if you want to go and install and use GOG purchases you can, but many don’t, hence Steam numbers.
So if Sony say also allowed you to install say a game from another storefront, that immediately means they’re already ahead of PC in one fell swoop.
As Valve doesn’t offer physical, their ToS can and are changed, they offer another storefront not because they want to, but it’s good marketing and they can’t prevent it in an open PC system, and they now want you to have a console like experience.
This is what I’m telling people, use GOG and GOG only on PC, or be very careful about what you wish for.
What we need is better rights and values as consumers from all companies in the industry. All this talk of hopping from one system to another does nothing for saving anything we value, it just temporarily boosts the pockets of those that laugh down at us.
Mark my words, the moment Valve sees growth in a closed loop system (as they are beginning to), they will branch out as far as they can. They don’t like GOG anymore than they like Windows or Sony after all.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Fabivito I don’t actually necessarily disagree, but 50 million consoles sold for a PS6, depending on the pricing structure of PS Plus and game sales at the time certainly don’t make it a failure.
The Switch 2 is considered a success already and it’s at around 20-21 million in sales as of May this year.
Sales of consoles matter less when the sales to people who buy second hand are the ones that have gone and upped sticks to another platform.
If the ones that stay are indeed as you say the loyalists shall we say, well then they’re exactly who Sony needs to stay.
A random household buying a console (sometimes sold at a loss), and only buying second hand games for their three kids at a store doesn’t support Sony. So there’s no loss to them.
So I totally agree, but I also know you can have things like a Steam Machine be around £1,000 and still sell all stock despite being twice the price of a PS5. It’s an odd market to be in.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@zebric21 I totally get your point about you preferring PC, and yes it can be used for work.
However, I would just like to point out that you wouldn’t need to sell someone on the benefits of a PC being for work too, as if they need a PC for work they will already have one.
Then those that do have one for work will likely not want to spend the rest of their free time in front of said PC.
There are many benefits to a console ecosystem, to many a person, the fact PC has what it’s always had (choice, options, power), don’t invalidate the favourable aspects of a console over those PC features.
It’s just I’m not going to sell my mother in-law, or a paramedic, or someone who works a physical in person job of any kind on the benefits of a PC because you can make money from it.
Working from home and building a gaming rig are two very different attitudes to the PC ecosystem, and they don’t always play well together.
Just wanted to state, despite yes all of these three main companies being absolutely dreadful at times, that doesn’t suddenly delete many of the reasons people want a console over a PC.
Take what Valve are trying to do with their Steam OS, yes they say on the Steam Machine and Steam Deck you have “choice” where to buy your games. They’re correct, not a lie!
However, they’re doing their damn best to make anything but purchasing on those devices from anything other than Steam more tiresome.
And don’t get me started on Windows 11, it’s like asking an ex to repeatedly punch you in the face whilst they occasionally tickle you.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Fabivito I personally like to imagine he counts them via hand one by one, whilst listening to Venga Boys on repeat.
And as for your point, I guess that’s just it, we have limited data, the data we do have represents both arguments for and against physical and neither the business or the consumer are willing to bend.
My one and only real thought on this that has remained in its entirety is that physical (if wanting to be cut by Sony), should have been announced to be ending when support for the PS5 does.
Though I would prefer physical options remain, what actually shocks me far, far more than the fact it’s being stamped out by the industry, is the fact they’re rushing to get to it needlessly.
Forgetting second hand, because of course that’s never going to be a good argument for a business to keep producing a medium from a business perspective. If say they’ve done this to “save money”, surely the money gained from the 77m discs sold makes at least evens, if not of course one would assume a sustained profit of sorts.
After of course manufacturing, distribution, sales channels percentages and so on are accounted for. Because if physical never made them a profit, they wouldn’t have done it in the first place.
So whilst I agree with your point it’s a large chunk to dismiss from the books, the counter argument for it also seems weak. As in, they would counter to save money, but then they make a profit from it as a whole, surely. I can’t imagine producing 77m of any mass marketed product and failing to make a profit unless I’m literally inept in every way shape and form at accounting for the costs involved.
So that then leaves us one only true reason, second hand/trading. Just like VHS, DVD burners, second hand music and the like, the one thing that all the industry hates is a buyer who lines the (no doubt incredibly corrupt) pockets of CEX more than their own.
That’s why I’ve told people time and time again, even if someone’s argument is that they too don’t buy second hand, the industries argument will always be, but many still can and do.
It’s happened to so much of the mediums available and that’s the true crux in all of this. They’re yet to create a physical item at a price mass markets purchase, that goes on a shelf but also can’t be legally traded.
Physical would stay if they could figure out a way to prevent people from supporting trading of said physical.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@ShadowRJ I agree fully! You’ve got some really great ideas. Now if only you had a few billion laying around and we could actually get this all in order. 😂
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Flaming_Kaiser Exactly! Couldn’t agree more. Then they also know (as many threads on here showcase), consumers at large don’t even know what their point is. This cause would be so much impactful if we could at large mobilise with a structured set of points and approach.
I adore physical, but even I read through a lot of people’s points and go “yeah, I wouldn’t struggle to counter that with a business perspective”.
I think I’m just looking for unity and strength in a place that isn’t ready to show it as a whole.
Couldn’t agree more though, options to trade, to sell and to share don’t ever last for the most part. It’s why now options for me to share a TV show I watched on TV are limited. They don’t want me passing a copy of “insert TV show name here” to my sister, they want me to tell my sister to stream it and watch product placements for “insert useless product here”, and then count as an additional viewer.
Oh how times do change.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@ShadowRJ Argos are even selling GTA 6 code in a box for £67.99.
Then if people used ShopTo and Loaded for their PSN credit they’d also never buy at PSN prices again.
No developer in their right mind is looking at Rockstar and thinking “we can emulate that utter egotistical nonsense of an attitude as a developer”
EA as a publisher tried it and got levelled very quickly with that sort of attitude.
Literally, no PSN price is the actual price if you simply top up your wallet with companies that have been going for in some cases over half of the PlayStations lifetime.
I think we all just need to be careful with the what ifs and maybes, there’s a lot of people using points to their arguments that are based on what ifs.
That’s no different to my saying what if your physical collection is burgled, what if you have a house fire or flood, what if you go broke one year and need to sell everything you have including physical games to even eat.
All we know right now for a fact is that IP holds within media and entertainment hate us having the ability to reproduce or hold on to their works.
VHS taken away, MiniDisc, BetaMax, Freeview TV recorders in decline, less films and TV going to physical media. Even music was attempted to go all streaming, and it’s only because the artists made next to nothing off streaming it even went back to physical.
So we know that is the stance of the industry at large, trading a game, and then them not profiting even a little off it is not good for their business. That’s common sense.
We also know game stores selling second hand games are in dramatic decline compared to mine, and many other peoples childhoods. Again, we know this a fact.
So we know the trend for the consumer and the desire of the industry are well established facts. They’ve proven they will remove media to make sure we divert to a stream of purchasing that cuts out trading, and we know on the whole consumers are declining in their purchasing of physical games.
What we don’t know is the plan of future developer and publisher pricing models, we don’t know if the PS6 will have an external drive and we don’t know it’s backwards capability.
So everyone could do with being frustrated by Sony at what is happening, but the moment we use what ifs we’ve sort of stopped talking about the here and now and what’s happening.
I like your ideas of more boutique printers, and that no doubt would mean increasing pricing (see vinyl), but it keeps the medium alive.
No one, I repeat no one should be paying for full price of games on PSN if they simply too up their wallet before hand, and no one should be unaware of how industry wants physical and tradable dead, and consumer trends at large show (other than a bit on the music side), most are okay with that.
But I don’t think arguing about the future of a potential game released in 2037 from a publisher inspired by Rockstar will help further any physical discs being produced.
We all need to stick to our opinions of physical staying, or going for and against, but without using anything else to prop those ideas up other than known facts.
We can’t have people in this thread accusing analysts of using conjecture and guess work with figures for us to then counter it with guesswork, otherwise it’s just a race and circle of mistrusts and misinformation to the bottom.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@ShadowRJ Very good point on needing to buy them, but I think Ghost is trying to point out not a counter to your point, but a counter to the fact that people are saying if purchased their “digital library” will be unable to be accessed years down the line.
If you don’t purchase a game, it won’t be available, but many have stated in the run up to this news their purchased digital games they fear losing. Which as of yet Ghost is stating that will likely not be the case.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Almost_Ghostly Oh gosh, no worries at all! There’s a lot here misunderstanding an awful lot of things, you misunderstanding my being sarcastic and my failing to convey sarcasm is the least of our worries if much of this thread is to be believed.
I fear for the populace far more than I fear for physical, that’s for sure.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Almost_Ghostly Ah yes, that’s sarcasm to counter the point of the commenter I was replying to. If you read the comment in its entirety it shows I agree with you and not them. Haha.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA, UK
@Almost_Ghostly I’m confused by your comment, what never happened? I’ve not stated anything to the contrary to what you have just stated. In fact, I agree with your comment, hence why I wouldn’t have stated something to the contrary.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@SEVENTEENSOILS Both my parents have sadly passed, but I just wanted to pop by and say that I completely get that feeling of wanting nothing more than to have a parent back.
That PC will go on to mean the world to you long after it’s ceased being a viable gaming/functional option in your home.
Your dad now gets to live on in your memories, so never stop sharing anything you have to say about his life and what he meant to you.
One day, just like with myself now, there will reach a time where the smells, sights and sounds of that person fade and recalling it is harder than you’d ever want. Remembering them and telling the world about them means those moments never get as hard as they could be.
Game where you want, none of this realistically matters to any of us as much as those we love, love conquers all, even gaming.
Just be loyal to yourself and your father’s memories, when we are all on our death beds I hope to God we barely remember any of this online chatter and only remember the good times we shared with great people.
So if none of this thread matters on your deathbed, go load up that PC, put on some music and know tomorrow you can talk about your dad and a person worth responding to will stop, listen and care.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@johnedwin Dreamcast Guy, oof, now that’s a guy that tosses a coin as to what his opinion will be each day!
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@RoomWithaMoose Absolutely, and with that I can completely agree. I wish I could say everyone would get what they want from this. Who doesn’t love a happy ending?!
I think what I wish is more could describe things more like how you and a few others have. I don’t expect it to be all void of emotion, but I think when it loses all reasoning arguments start to become about the person not the cause.
That’s what I like about the long conversations I have here, more often than not I’m agreeing with the person, I’m just not wishing to phrase it or see it as black and white. I guess I just prefer nuance to a total void.
Anyway, I’m rambling as usual!
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@RoomWithaMoose I would say irrational, but not unaware of their actions and indeed as adults (one would hope), not void of responsibility.
I think that’s where I get irked about all this, I actually support physical in all forms staying for this and all forms of media, but then it’s when people go out of their way as grown adults to not show constraint and responsibility over their actions.
It’s like the excuse of when people say “oh but they’re grieving”, when a person commits a terrible crime, but then it doesn’t warrant excusing an adult losing their ability to control their own actions.
But I totally agree with you in spirit, it’s just an adult should be able to spot themselves being irrational and correct it. Irrational thoughts are normal for us all, refusing to correct them is not.
I just think as a Dev that’s had a threat made to his daughter about this, resulting in someone alluding to have found my work details via literally guesswork from here (I changed my user here and now they’ve been arrested on other crimes), this really can get serious very quickly.
I laugh a lot of it off, but you’d be surprised what an uprising this has from a very dark place.
All it takes is for one person to be told their anger, vitriol and pain is warranted and those seen to be associated need to “pay”.
But yes, I hope more people get what they want, but I also hope some of the irrationality seen online calms a little, as no one listens to a person being irrational, including businesses.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@get2sammyb Serious question, are they even “good” memes?
Okay that’s besides the point I know, but at this point I’m not really sure what to say, other than I get the disgruntlement, but think it is indeed misdirected massively.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@RoomWithaMoose One of my dad’s favourites! You’ve got me tempted. Too tempted actually. Don’t say anything else haha.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@EVIL-C I think with your example it would be more like my buying say a Lenovo laptop, then say Windows 11.
I could then do anything I wish with the laptop (disc), but then the software (Windows 11), can be bricked, not updated by the developer, etc.
Not agreeing or disagreeing, just think that makes it clearer.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@PanFriedSoup Thank you for the reminder! Good grief you’re bloody good!
I’m lurking online for the physical of all the X-Files but may have to get them when I go Stateside again, as they’re going up in price for the boxset here.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@PanFriedSoup Haha, thank you! Wait until my partner gets to the spontaneous combustion episode! She’s absolutely (and admits not logically), terrified of it happening to her.
I should delve into the why behind that, but I’ll save that for after the episode.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@DennisReynolds Very accurate, however, it’s actually X-Files from the beginning and Disney Plus. 😂
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@Bizzy Buttered Crumpet - Steam Achievement Unlocked
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@Bizzy Fellow Half Life box and CD owner too! What a time it was playing that for the first time!
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@get2sammyb You seem to suggest a very logical set of ideals as a proposal of what could be, I'd support and encourage that. I'd actually purchase more on disc if I knew it would be more of the "game" so to speak, so after patches, maybe with booklets and so on.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@Balaam_ "Intellectual elite"
Can we not all have a discussion without this yet again becoming some self-righteous parade of appendage sizing.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@somnambulance Oh, I can assure you, this is almost entirely a beg and pleading mission from both companies that sell second hand games (the original Change.org Petition Creator), Cex, GAME and the like ... then those who buy second hand.
Now I see nothing wrong with that, I do find myself getting a slight bit of personal frustration from how disingenuous some people/companies have been with their motives.
However, I support second hand anything, I just of course also understand, as Sammy has pointed out and we all know, IP holders get no money from second hand trading, so all industries try to find ways to monopolise on it.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@The-punishr I do remember when the PS4 came out, everyone moved to PC and other consoles then too, due to a lack of backwards compatibility with all three previous consoles, didn't they? Oh, wait ...
I'm all for PC gaming, but let's not all of a sudden pretend that any other console is going to be cheap the tail end of this decade, or that PC parts are going to be well priced.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@somnambulance Resale is something all platform holders try to gain information on, in a rather unscrupulous way or two. However, no, second hand trading does not account for any sale with a platform to the platform holder and benefits them in no way directly.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
@get2sammyb Indeed.
Re: Sales Data Paints a Very Grim Picture for Physical PS5 Games in the USA
Thank you for that information.
Re: Give Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 4 a Go in Its PS5 Beta Next Month
@Oram77 Haha, I totally get that, for me after owning the Portal, I'm down for giving it a go on the Switch 2. I love the idea of relaxing a bit on the sofa or something to a quick game or two. For me more than anything it's the jumping between the logos for the buttons on the devices that throws me!
I just wish Marathon was on the Switch 2, as if I hop into it again and mesh with it I could actually have it portable, which is appealing for the garden and sofa etc.
Totally agree though, not the prime way to play!
Re: Give Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 4 a Go in Its PS5 Beta Next Month
Funny how you hop on to NL and they are all over this compared to here.
Re: This PS5 RPG Will Expand 'Beyond the Game' with an Official Anime
@rjejr Exactly! It's what we do in our home too! Haha
Re: Marathon's Rescue Mission Begins with This New Roguelite Mode, Playable Solo or Co-Op on PS5
Really looking forward to giving this a good ol' college try again!
Re: Give Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 4 a Go in Its PS5 Beta Next Month
I’ll be making sure to get a little taster of it with the partner, and then no doubt playing it like I always do each year haha.
Hope all those want to play it go on to have a blast!
Re: PSVR2 Fans Are Having a Good Day as New Game Announced for the Headset
I mean, I could see this game being useful for many after getting into debates on this website, myself included haha.
On a serious note though, it’s not quite what I’d like to see from PSVR2 at this point, no.
Re: This PS5 RPG Will Expand 'Beyond the Game' with an Official Anime
And just to add, my dad used to say “You want your Japanese cartoons on now, Josh?”
So, in the Western world I think we all quietly moved to more Asian descriptors out of a wish to not potentially be mistaken for being racist etc. I mean my dad even used to call them Asian comics, but I guess now I wouldn’t go around telling people I’m into Asian comics instead of manga, as it sounds a little odd to some.
Even though many from said countries would say British cartoon, or Western Cartoon or American cartoon and so forth and think nothing of it.
Re: This PS5 RPG Will Expand 'Beyond the Game' with an Official Anime
@rjejr So, Donghua is sort of understood to refer to specifically not just Chinese cartoons, but ones that are heavily influenced by their culture too, one could argue we in the Western world use anime in exactly the same way.
But it can also refer to 2D and 3D. But yes, as @IntrepidWombat rightly says, it’s all just nonsense and a bit of a much of muchness using them all separately.
From the Asian’s I have known in both territories, none of them care for if we call it a cartoon, animation, anime and so on. Mainly just so long as we appreciate it!
Just so fascinating to see it all be used and changed about depending on the country. Much like IntrepidWombat states, I was sort of being cheeky myself, as I know of no one in those counties that will care.
Re: PS5's Once Upon a Katamari Is Getting Bigger with Paid DLC Based on the Mobile Game
I’m happy to dive in and have a reroll of the game when fresh content arrives! Get it, reroll, Katamari …
I’ll see myself out! 😂
Re: Insomniac's Spider-Man Games 'a Great Inspiration' for Brand New Day, Says Director
Fantastic to think of many of the stunt performers playing the games and taking inspiration from them.
The games in the main are really great in short bursts for me, I completed the first, got platinum and enjoyed it quite a bit. However, Miles is a tough slog for me (simply due to it feeling more of the same), and I’m yet to do anything other than load up the newest one.
I look forward to completing them all fully, but I think I did myself a disservice by playing them one after another, or at least trying to.
Excited to see the film in the theatre though, so that’s something to look forward to from the franchise in an immediate sense.
Re: This PS5 RPG Will Expand 'Beyond the Game' with an Official Anime
@IntrepidWombat Good point regarding anime vs donghua.
Always found it interesting how in the Western world we stick to naming it an anime or donghua, yet we would more normally say Japanese or Chinese cartoon many moons ago.
Like how my Japanese friend sometimes uses anime to describe all animation, as it’s technically just a shortening of animation.
Then sometimes my friend would use a phrase to describe the country of origin and then that it’s an anime.
Fascinating though how Westerners seem to get a lot more hung up on the naming of animation than many in said countries do for ours.
Re: 'It Isn't Something Carved in Stone': Xbox Still Unclear on Future PS5 Ports
@Swirly Haha, same! Yet unfortunately having gone outside and been scanned by facial recognition cameras in the street, or in shops and whatnot, I figured it's the least of the worries we all have.
However, you take some time to think it through, and hopefully it all pans out where you feel comfortable enough in the end.
Have a great time gaming though in the meantime!
Re: Going Platinum: It Was a Pleasure to Grind Returnal for That RNG Trophy
You're a stronger man than I! I truly hit my mental capacity to process what I needed to do with this game, I couldn't keep hitting my head against that wall.
Now Resogun, every day I worked on that sucker, but this, it's a whole new breed of determination that's required!
Well done, seriously well done!