@Vaako007 I would say people in this thread are arguing about all manner of things. To say no one is disputing something related to IP, or discs themselves or licenses would be disingenuous.
You aren’t, but that doesn’t mean all aren’t. What you claim publicly you’re annoyed with and want from Sony, I have too.
My explaining the terms and laws surrounding licenses on a disc, and yes also stating the benefits of them too doesn’t mean I disagree with you.
What is at the core of this though people tend to be not acknowledging.
The benefits of discs on a Sony platform don’t matter anymore do they? Sony have stated they’re getting rid of them.
So, if anyone is remaining on a Sony platform following 2028, it will matter to them a whole lot more.
If of course someone like yourself maybe or anyone else doesn’t wish to remain on the Sony platform, then of course the terms and legalities of disc based ownership will be of no consequence or concern.
So if you don’t plan to remain with Sony. Don’t worry. If you do, then we should all help to make it a better place to be. Simple.
@Crecca Genuinely, who is showing support for this? I must have them on ignore. I’ve seen people explain their opinions for how crap it is, or how the law works, but no one agreeing with Sony on this.
@FreasurePlanten Agreed, I think choice is a wonderful thing, and the last thing I want is less choice as a consumer, or hobbyist or fan of anything. The fact I get choice means I'm actually more willing to spend my money, something a lot of companies seem to actually really not understand.
Same with GTA, using that as a current example, just knowing that the "full" version is the premium version, and that version can't also at the same time be bought from say Steam, GoG, on a disc for PS5 makes me less likely to actually purchase it at all.
Choice matters to us all and should be encouraged and laws should be protective of choice, but sadly, more often than not they protect those who rather ironically wish to evade paying more tax to the lawmakers in the first place.
Ah well, at least we can enjoy the games as they are allowed to be enjoyed under a dystopian future, for now.
Of course you can, like I've said, spitting out truth bombs on this site seems to need the disclaimer that it's not personal opinion, much like how Sammy reporting on this doesn't mean his opinion matches that of the terms or laws.
We can be called the naysayers to physical by many no doubt, but the truth is the future is all digital, so we better get accustomed to the laws and terms and learn to fight for better ones quick.
Accepting the future doesn't mean you or I agree with all of it.
Awards another Buttered Crumpet because it's Sunday and F it.
@Dannz What @Bizzy says, sadly stores as in physical brick and mortar stores or online ones selling physical games know that it would cause an uproar directed towards them, not the platform holder they’re selling a game for.
That and long established terminology has been accepted, simply by not being challenged for years.
Like how I can go on Prime or Sky now and “buy” a film, but I sure as hell don’t get to decide how long I have access to it, I don’t get to burn a copy of it and I don’t get to trade it.
Buying and the surrounding legality of it with regards to wording does need to change, I completely agree. As this is where a lot of the misunderstanding stems from.
People keep repeating “but I bought the game on disc”, not realising the “buying” of a physical disc isn’t the actual game, it’s the license to use the disc as a physical key to access the game for a time period the platform holder sees fit.
All of this needs to change and is vile as far as how it treats we the consumers/buyers/purchasers, but as I have stated before, until physical media begins to be taken away, people have been happy at large to not challenge the laws or terms.
If I could change the laws buying would be a term that should only be used when owning something. And the buying of any license, be it on a disc, paper, thumb drive, cassette tape or mini disc, should all state it’s a license you are buying.
No store wants to point this out as it makes them the target and laws don’t enforce the need to point it out.
@zebric21 Oh I know we agree and are only jibing at one another because it's a bit of fun here and there.
I think that's the point with it all, it's all futile, physical in music only stays for myself due to artists and their labels realising there was a LOT of missed money on the table compared to streaming.
Nothing is being done for my benefit as a consumer. I do think you're right, both digital and physical as far as rights are concerned are sort of doomed, as in these companies didn't care years ago, a few people on a random site aren't going to make them care anymore.
Resistance is indeed futile, good bit of fun every once and a while resisting the great dystopian future they've sold for years in film though, am I right? Hahaha.
And with regards to your disc being physically taken away, gosh no, to my knowledge Sony do not have a department that is like the American ICE, where they conduct raids and take people/items/lives/rights away.
So, if we disregard fires, floods, other natural disasters for your home, accidents or burglaries, then of course consoles failing and needing to buy a replacement or disc degradation over time, no your license on a disc should hold up just fine!
However, the law and terms relating to that license still state at any point Sony can revoke it, so due to not having an ICE-like group, that would likely come in the way of bricking the game install file, your console, closing your account etc.
Yet, as we can all agree, the liklihood of those things being actionable from Sony are very small, so yes, I would say physical is the more preferable option for many.
The only reason it's not preferred on a PS5 for myself is due to a lot of travel (so loading into another PS5), share games with my partner and child that we play simultaneously and use a Portals.
On every other platform I use and fully support physical, whether that be music, film, TV, Switch and so on. Most of the media I consume in my life comes from a physical format in some way shape or form.
'The best option is dead (within gaming for distribution media).'
And this right here is the issue, you assume I don't agree.
Yet, I shall say this once more in lots of tiny words so people understand and can skim read ...
... I agree with you fully, the best option is dying and I am angry about it and I do think physical should remain along with second hand markets/buying and selling.
At no point during all my writing on this article comments section have I said I do not agree that physical should remain, or that I think it's terrible, or that I don't like it.
You're literally conversing with a bloke that has spent thousands of pounds on CD's, vinyl, Switch 1 and 2 games (playing catch up on a missed Nintendo generation).
So I love physical and think Sony is so, very, very naive and silly for jumping the gun on this. Something I have also stated before on this site.
See my point, how we all likely have a lot more we'd agree on if we didn't make assumptions?
@Wiceheid Oh I absolutely agree. Again, I as I stated to Mr Cage, stating facts isn't something that should be equivalent to my stating my opinion unless I have stated it is indeed my opinion.
You've just stated everything I previously pointed out is correct, but then allude to the fact I am missing a point that makes your point stand upright.
The thing is, I didn't disagree with your point previously, nor do I disagree with your point now. I fully agree with your point.
The free market of capitalism for which many of us are located within does allow more freedoms over physical items, whether the original IP owner wishes for that to be the case or not.
However, that isn't the future we need to be discussing. If digital rights are soon to become everyone's only rights, as in once physical on PlayStation ends, Xbox and Nintendo (in time), then the only rights worth discussing are those which relate to both and that will apply to all moving forwards, as in all available purchases (being solely digital).
Like how a commenter just above this states 'I own my physical games though'
That is both a truth in the eyes of trading the physical disc, and not true in relation to the 'games'.
I just think people really need to understand that my stating the laws and terms we've all happily agreed to, doesn't mean I am stating any personal opinion in doing so. If someone wants my opinion, all they need to is ask, as they'll only make a fool of themselves upon assuming.
See, this is the issue with online discourse nowadays. Look at the comments here, people are more concerned with getting people out on technicalities, or arguing with one another, rather than actually discussing the matter at hand.
All I have done is state what the terms and conditions and the law surrounding the licensing of media such as this is.
These are the same terms and conditions one agrees to upon booting up a PS5, creating an account and using it, and the same ones we agree to in a non-verbal, non-written state by using a disc inserted into the drive, or a downloaded game from a data centre.
Yet, as you can see here, a lot get up in arms about their opinions of those laws, their values as a gamer in this hobby and so on, directing it at other users, yet they should be directing it at Sony.
It's important to note, and I shouldn't have to note, but my stating terms and conditions we've agreed to and the laws surrounding them is not equivalent to my agreeing with them.
I don't agree with Sony and their refund policies, their digital/physical ownership terms, their customer service is worse than Waitrose but better than Xbox in my experience, so somewhere between tolerable and utter crap.
The list of issues I have for their gaming division is actually quite considerable, yet people wouldn't know, because they don't ask, and they only care to come online for 5 minutes, bring people down to make their own life feel better and then ultimately do nothing about the disc issue and move on.
Humans are like this, we could all learn the world is ending in 10 minutes, and we'd all still jump online and argue with one another that the mushroom cloud is actually not real and it's all a simulation and that we won't die but instead it's a projection or a reptilian agenda.
My stating facts doesn't mean I agree with them. We all need to stop taking cheap shots and sink a big win for the community at large instead.
So I fully agree with you, but then I always have, it's just I always encounter in real life people who actually realise you're stating a fact not an opinion without constantly having to preface everything with a disclaimer.
In short: I agree. I state laws and facts on this matter and people hate that due to it not going with their opinion, not realising their opinion may match mine, but neither opinion changes the laws and terms. We should all do better and change the crappy ecosystems not try to change one another.
@zebric21 Even now you still say “maybe” all of that is true. It literally is true, it’s not my debating, it’s the laws and the terms you agree to.
It’s a tangible, proven fact. Yet the fact you put maybe indicates you’re not sure yourself, which again means you’re pushing the agenda of a license on a disc and not knowing what that actually means.
If you care not for the restrictions of a disc or digital and yet use it, there’s nothing wrong with that. But seeing as the entire world is transitioning to digital formats in gaming, even if in years to come for some other brands, maybe just maybe we should care.
@BinaryBoss Yep, no matter how much I say it, then tell people to not reply to me, but read what’s in the terms first, and they just don’t. I’m just at a true loss for how people think because CEX/GameStop allow trading it’s their legal right and is a benefit legally over a digital file.
Firstly, digital or physical, they’re both digital. Minor pet peeve that means nothing, but makes me wish we’d come up with new terminology.
Secondly, the fact an independent third party accepts a file on a disc in exchange for money isn’t in Sony’s terms nor is it protected under the terms of the license.
If by law, and the terms, discs meant ownership, it would mean I could pop the disc into a burner and there would be no DRM, it would mean Xbox couldn’t legally ship some games with no game data on them, and it would mean Nintendo couldn’t publish Game Key Cards.
It is either owned and has to be present on the medium, or it’s a license. We can’t be out here saying discs and cartridges are owned as in the game and then having the same laws allowing nothing of the game to be present.
The laws allowing nothing to be present but a license means the law states you’re buying a use of the license.
You get this, I get this. Now if everyone could get that this is and has been an issue, otherwise GoG wouldn’t exist, then we could all actually make progress.
@Kz_Eikon For the most part yes, and for the most part has made up the terms for years. People just only read what’s here and don’t actually read the terms regarding licensing and ownership independent of this site.
You can tell by what they say about digital/physical.
@AlexPorto Absolutely, agreed. But they can legally at any time decide to not allow that game to load up if connected to the internet, they can legally brick your console, they can legally even encourage you to download a patch that then only allows you to play the intro of the game for 5 minutes.
Honestly, though all I mention is silly, it’s entirely legal, and that should be something people think about.
If you want freedom of ownership, which I support too of course, we on PlayStation don’t have that. We have the illusion of it. The only thing that’s happening now is Sony is taking away one of the illusions they’ve used.
@Mr-Cage They don’t let you own the games when purchased physically either. Only GoG allows you to do this. As in you can literally do anything with it following purchase, burn it to disc, plop it on a hard drive, trade it with a mate etc.
Like with physical, say you and I buy Silent Hill on PS5 physically, but one of us also buys it on GoG (naming random game I haven’t checked what’s is available on what service).
Now if your PS5 disc gets scratched, burnt in fire, stolen, you aren’t legally able to make a copy of that PS5 disc. Because you don’t own the rights to that, you own a right to use the license (and of course any files of the game) on the disc, by putting the disc in a PS5.
Now if we had a GoG copy of the license, we could burn a new disc for one another, legally, and could trade it on a thumb stick, legally.
That’s the sort of freedoms people should be clambering for.
@PaperAlien You also don’t own physical games, you own the disc itself, as in the literal case and disc, and the freedom to use the license on it.
Due to it being a physical and tangible item you can trade/resell it. However, the rights of the license on said medium are the same as the digital alternative.
This is something outlined both in the article and by myself, but people still aren’t having that penny drop.
As stated in the article, and as I have stated far more times than most here care to read, physical games also have very similar terms attached.
Ignoring the fact a physical item can be traded, the actual licensing terms surrounding both a cloud file and the one on the disc remain the same.
This, and only this is what people should be discussing. The fact that saving physical media doesn’t improve laws and terms surrounding games.
That if we want better ownership rights, as in legal rights to ownership, currently only GoG provides that. Literally no disc based game offers it.
So if people want to discuss ownership, as I have said multiple times, licensing rights and laws for both cloud keys and disc keys are similar and almost identical other than some wording relating to disc/digital purchasing.
I look forward to January 2028, when more may realise this and actually want a conversation that brings about change when it’s too late.
Cloud/disc, they are both being licensed to you, and no matter the format the license is on, that should be the point that bothers you.
@djlard No crimes against physical ownership have been committed.
If you truly are suffering from the intense levels of paranoid delusions you seem to display, genuinely, seek help.
And if not truly suffering, but instead are being hyperbolic for the sake of it, look up laws regarding the licensing of media on the physical distribution medium, and ease off on selling yourself short on the internet so freely.
It will then provide you with another code for your chosen platform.
Saves someone needing to pre-order to gain access this weekend or watch a Live Streamer in the hopes of a drop etc.
See, having a bloke on the inside is useful for something, even if it's just to irritate commenters here and provide the odd code for a game most of the website claims to hate.
See you on the Beta Battlefield, I promise not to cheat ...
Me and my partner are going to jump on tonight, should be a good bit of fun to get a feel of it before release.
Looking forward to it, now just need to finish up some work emails before 7pm when the Beta opens its warm embrace of a mind-numbing battering to the senses it provides.
Copyrighted material has been stolen, there is no other conversation to be had other than that of this being a crime.
No one here would likely take kindly to their creative endeavours, be it photo of their child, writing they did, book, album or game being stolen and used against them.
A hacker, who is blackmailing using stolen assets, along with rinsing money through a crypto pump and dump is indefensible.
The fact Take Two ain't no saint doesn't justify stealing years worth of peoples work and using it against them whilst also trying to push a cryptocurrency.
If we wished terrible things upon those who we think have skewed views of the world and don't have great actions, we'd likely be destroying a whole lot of lives from this very website.
Get a grip, and realise that stating it's not okay to steal, blackmail and pump and dump a crypto is not equivalent to justifying the fact that Take Two can be a bit of a poor employer and company.
False equivalence is a thing, look it up, then learn from it.
@Carnage Right okay, not really sure how your point is any different, other than adding staff with a business are also treated poorly. However, I'm glad we agree, even though you seem to think we don't.
@Th3solution Having worked for Sony, and other's of the same ilk, both smaller and larger ... I can't name a company that I have worked for where internally they treat consumers with understanding, graciousness and a discerning nature.
Now have I known of a lot of companies that pretend to be those things to consumers successfully? Yes, many. But it's always an illusion.
You don't get to be a multi-billion dollar corporation and put consumers first, you get to be that by telling consumers what they want and then appealing to it.
Think Pepsi, Coke, Nestle, Apple, Microsoft. Not one cares for rights, environmental impacts, people.
@RoomWithaMoose Oh, it's tough for me too, people just mistake it for not being because I see objectively all sides of a box just not constantly screaming about a corner of it.
The moment I am not entertained, I stop buying, simple.
I must admit, people have claimed they desire Sony and their PlayStation brand to be a lot more transparent of late, well, here we are now, realising why many companies prefer to either be fake or silent.
The truth is always the case that consumers are cash cows, but there is very rarely a consumer happy with hearing it.
@GoatFace04 Okay, £/$1,000 is 16% the value of your car.
It's more than the value of my car, which is a second hand Freelander 2.
It's also more than what I paid for my two cats.
I'm just not sure what your statement is meant to portray, if a console being priced at 16% the value of your car is not appealing and something you don't want, then surely just don't buy it.
Just to be clear, rather obviously, as I have stated previously;
Everyone values different things in life, everyone is on a different income to one another, everyone justifies how they spend their own money, and none of this I take personal issue with.
If you don't wish to buy a PS6, then it doesn't matter what price it costs. Why concern yourself with the percentage of cost when compared to your car if you don't want it?
Then if you do want it, we've all had years to save.
Then if you've had a life whereby you can't save for it, then you have to wait.
I grew up in a home whereby I had one game, maximum two, to play all year, until Christmas/Birthday. I grew up eating crap food because that's all I could be given by my parents.
But I know they did their best at the time, and thankfully I am not in that position. But remember, I come from a household where one game a year is all I had, so I'm a bit confused now people expect the gaming hobby to provide them with a new game a day.
@dskatter Oh for sure, so then surely buy the games one can afford, no? This isn't Pokemon, people don't need to play every game ever before they die, and there will be always games people want and can't afford too, unless millionaires.
This can be applied to anything, I can buy a 4K bluray player, it's a good deal, but I know realistically I could spend hundreds and thousands on discs. But then I just save and use self control.
Just PS Plus Premium (to get games to play if that's all someone can budget for), and the price for the PS6 (rumoured), is still cheaper each month than if I were to try and have all of the streaming services, Sky TV etc.
I mean a PC for £3,000, lovely, amazing, but then the more games I buy the more it costs in the long run, as I say, it can apply to everything like this.
If someone has their only argument be "I can't buy as many luxury entertainment items as I want", that's not really something that's going to get much sympathy anywhere but here.
Don't many of us want more than what we have for the most part in life?
@Mythologue Of course it's trivial by its very nature, no? It's a hobby, revolving around gaming. One whereby if you are not happy with the price of a companies wares you can simply buy elsewhere.
The fact you consider my breaking down saving for a luxury item as trivialising is frightening. Saving £2.74 for a UK resident with a full time job and wishing to have a hobby should be trivial. Otherwise the hobby is not for them. And as I pointed out, nor is Netflix, Sky TV and so on.
This is what adults do, they save for the items they want in life.
The ones of us in the world that can't then save, or afford to save for some items in our life we get over and move on from. I can't afford a Ferrari, it doesn't mean I go on to the Ferrari fan forums, complain that it's a car hobby and I should be able to afford it and how unfair it is.
@Mr-Cage Exactly mate, that's the angle I think all should take.
If, like you, a console in general is not worth a speculated £1,000 price tag, then I highly encourage all of those thinking that to not buy it.
If, however, like me you have friends that buy the latest cars, pay more on their mortgage due to getting a bigger home than they need in an area they don't need, buy Rolex's, Tag's and so on, it's a fools game in my opinion for them to be spending that money on things to prop up their personality.
However, my purchase of a £1,000 console that gives me on average 7 years of fun is going to be a whole lot better of an investment than my mates Rolex, which what, tells the time if he's lucky enough to not walk around certain areas of London with it for too long.
It all comes down to personal entertainment, affordability and priorities.
The only thing I don't understand is as you now know, I think paying large sums for a timepiece on my wrist is silly, yet for that reason you won't see me on a "luxury" timepiece forum complaining about the price.
If I don't want a fancy watch, I don't worry about the price of what it shall be, or how much the next watch shall cost, I simply don't engage with the forums, the groups surrounding them and quite literally know nothing about their releases.
So I guess I just find it confusing that gamers are one of the only hobbyists that purposefully go on to a group, about an item they don't want, to say they don't want it at that price.
Imagine if we swarmed a Coach, Prada, Rolex or something of that ilk forum and kept copy and pasting how much we hated their prices and won't buy their products. It would do nothing to worsen the brand and it would only highlight how silly we are.
If someone doesn't want to buy a product due to all manner of reasons, of course that's brilliant they are exercising their free will, but then why do gamers feel the need to be upset over the price of a product they don't wish to purchase?
I ain't sitting in my Land Rover Freelander 2 that's hanging on by a thread and complaining at the price of a Lambo. Surely people understand it sounds silly to say, I'm not interested in the PS6, to then go on a forum post they won't buy it and complain about the price, no?
The price of any product in the world is inconsequential if you do not intend to buy it.
Then, let's assume that console has a lifecycle of around 7 years, again, for arguments sake.
That's £2.74 a week (if saved for 7 years prior, or even paid for out of savings during the lifecycle of the device) for a whole lot of family entertainment in my house.
It's cheaper than Sky TV, Netflix 4K, it's even cheaper than YouTube Premium.
£10.96 a month is still cheaper than my mobile phone plan, which gives me a whole lot less too.
If I were personally worried about an item costing £2.74 in savings per week, over the course of 7 years to acquire, I would be worrying about a whole lot more in my life than gaming.
So, save £2.74 a week from when the PS5 released to when the PS6 will and you have the money needed.
There's people who spend more on vinyl players, phones (to then barely use the actual phone feature), PC's for gaming, and the list goes on.
Is there money in the economy for people on a mass scale to spend this on a frivolous item for entertainment? Yes. The items people purchase at large shows this.
Will there be a demand based on what the product itself offers? That remains to be seen.
All I know is I am happy to be on the side of making games not deciding the entire global financial structuring of R&D, manufacture, marketing, shipping and contracts etc.
I guess all there is now to do is wait, they say patience is a virtue don't they? Yet the only virtue gamers seem to be good at is signaling.
@Slideaway1983 Honestly, it’ll be worth a watch even if via other means! Well, I’m saying this, if they do a good job, which to be fair, their shows are really smashing it of late.
But same, regarding Apple. You’re talking to a bloke who uses VPN’s from countries I prefer to the main few, use Ubuntu as a daily, my email isn’t even with a main provider and is paid for and actually private.
My Windows PC only exists for work, goes through my home lab and is stripped of connecting to anything other than the studio HQ server and software updates, then gets turned off.
Take Team A, that doesn’t want to work on the flailing fart in the wind of a live service idea … wait, this bit is crazy deep so hold on …
Then combine them with the ‘Tiny’ Team B who is working on the next tentpole of an already established idea with a proven track record financially …
… then we end up with a studio working on an idea that keeps them afloat, keeps Sony pumping out IP people associate with PlayStation, helps to sell the brand and blah blah blah.
One could argue combining at this stage would be a substantial waste of corporate funds. To that I would say, Hermen, my little sausage, when this releases it’s going to squander a whole lot more funds than cutting your loses now.
I think fresh ideas should be experimented with, and they always are behind the scenes by us lot at studios. Yet, there should only be approval for them when they test well internally and with focus groups … and, when the studio is already proving themselves capable of pumping out what funds said experimentation.
Basing an idea on let’s take characters from established IP, let’s remove what makes their IP beloved, and then add live service and micros transactions, yeah no.
Now Hermen, you delightful little bean, you didn’t listen to me or my colleagues when I was working there, and you sure as hell won’t read this. Yet if you could somehow psychically pick up what I’m putting down that would be much appreciated.
I honestly feel like CERN with the LHC have put me in an alternate timeline at times. If ever there is a choice, can I be in the timeline where Killzone is still a thing and just because it’s a thing we don’t have Sony suits thinking we should let one of the blokes there call many of the shots for PlayStation. Okay cheers!
I’m off to have a cigar, pint, sit in the garden and ponder what life would be like with more Killzone and less floundering of wealth on ‘hot takes’ by a bloke who only has limp, cold and lifeless ideas.
@Ken_Kaniff Just don't buy their products and services and stop interacting with their fan sites, mate.
Surely the adult thing for us all to do is not support a company or its fan sites instead of wishing for a group of socially inept but computer literate people to bring down the man so to speak.
I mean I don't like your comments, and therefore your actions, I'm not wishing for hackers to come after you and your family. I just don't wish to support you in any way.
If you truly care so little of what happens to Sony, their branding, their corporation, I take no issue with that.
It's that you then waste your own life, energy, time by coming on to a website, focused on said brand, to then insult them.
A neighbour I don't like is a neighbour I don't acknowledge. It's the equivalent to my standing outside their house randomly in the day and evenings to just shout a random insult and walk off.
You dislike Sony, I agree in many ways with the insults they have received, doesn't really make sense to stick around throwing stones after you've made your point though.
@SEVENTEENSOILS 'I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make here'
Welcome to my world. 😂
I think a lot of energy is misdirected on a societal and governmental level, and when seen in the gaming landscape it sheds light on just how damaged the world is.
We have hackers who seem to be trying to pump and dump a fictitious asset, that can in fact become a real asset, but then as you say likely avoid repercussions due to their home countries, then claiming to care about a game studios morals and ethics.
Then we have police trying to arrest Bob down the road because he's getting into a row with his neighbour and "incited violence".
I don't know if it was my naivety, or the way the world was, but I just didn't feel like it had this much anger, pain and frustration in it, especially emotional heat that seems to be misdirected so frequently.
It's like this hacker group is angry at what exactly? They don't earn enough in a respectable job they need to then try to commit cryptocurrency scam/crime that would no doubt gain interest from the FBI, base it on caring about a game they will likely pirate anyway, you know ... as a downloaded file not on disc.
Yet they could always have just you know, directed their frustration at Sony, for announcing not one game, but all games will cease to be shipped on disc.
I just don't understand how the gaming landscape has become less about gaming, on websites, social media and so on and more of the corporate strategising and attacking.
Remember when we all used to game, get gaming magazines and just talk about games we love with our mates? What happened? Why are we going on a gaming website to read of hackers shifting a form of currency, claiming to care about discs, and then having comments even defending it.
Genuinely, did we all just grow up and become more interested in the politics of gaming more than actually, gaming?!
I'm with you, it would seem everyone from those in authority to all of us below them need to align more with what brings us joy and entertainment, as sadly I no longer believe gaming equals entertainment to a lot of people who are vocal online.
And it's usually down to discussing things that either they have no control over, have no knowledge of, or impacts them on a personal level little compared to if they just picked up a controller/keyboard and mouse and gamed.
I just think both the people as in society at large and those who claim to protect us are very disillusioned over what is actually important in life.
It's like how I saw a person claim how important these hacker groups are as they can help fight against the abuses online and so on. What a bunch of untrustworthy people can help to protect children online?
How about parents parent, keep their kids away from crap like mine did and actually take responsibility. The next solution to bad parenting shouldn't be to jump on board with a hacker group of strangers holding your daughters hand through the sea of online activity.
Anyway, I'm ranting, much like yourself I have no idea what my point is. I just agree, and yet even by agreeing I don't really know what comes from it all.
@rjejr I like your humour, you get a buttered crumpet! 'Od'ing on Adderall' is going to be a line I use in some way shape or form, giving you forewarning of royalties owed in due course.
Internally the last I heard is what Jason has stated. Honestly, I know this sounds sort of odd to say as someone with a circle of people in that fold, but none of us really expected executive approval to remain for this project anyway.
Personally, I'll be far more shocked if this gets a release, than if it gets cancelled.
The last I worked for Sony it ended with a heated discussion about upper management (Hulst was in his new role for about just under two years).
I would only go back after he's left, he pushed a lot of people I know and really good teams into a direction that's either ruined their morale, ruined their reputation with the user base, or in part ruined the trajectory of their careers. Not single-handedly of course, but he's played a part, and at no point was his part respected internally.
Guerilla have a great engine, they have a great team of people that know how to get astounding results from said engine, they have never, nor do they currently ... have great management.
Hulst proved himself to be capable if Sony executives wanted failed Killzone attempts and a great engine, at no point did he ever prove capable of fitting the role he was provided.
Good luck to them I say, they really, really need it. Hulst better be gone in time for PS6 shipments to be hitting the ground, because I don't know of an insider that wants to work with that mess of a mind palace.
I mean he's more than welcome to prove me wrong, but in the court of public opinion right now, all he's doing is proving every naysayer to be correct. So again, good luck, move on to PepsiCo or whatever he desires next and get this entertainment train moving again please.
More pointless hacktivist bull, pretending to have the agenda of cleaning up the gaming industry, but also surprise, surprise having an alternative agenda.
And of course, the usual suspect defending hackers as usual. Christ on a cracker, couldn't make it up. Defend Sony, loser, shill and Lord knows what else, defend a Hacker group, North Korea, Russia and more and you're apparently encouraged on here.
And what exactly are the hackers trying to leak? A dev build from an office in Scotland from years ago, yeah, don't worry lads that'll scare Rockstar into submission.
One thing is for sure, these hackers clearly don't know many Scottish people. Let's hit a Scottish person with a wet flannel and see how they bend to our every whim.
Comments 553
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@TheSingularity Really enjoy what you write buddy and not on my ignore list, I guess have at it if you add me to yours.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@Vaako007 I would say people in this thread are arguing about all manner of things. To say no one is disputing something related to IP, or discs themselves or licenses would be disingenuous.
You aren’t, but that doesn’t mean all aren’t. What you claim publicly you’re annoyed with and want from Sony, I have too.
My explaining the terms and laws surrounding licenses on a disc, and yes also stating the benefits of them too doesn’t mean I disagree with you.
What is at the core of this though people tend to be not acknowledging.
The benefits of discs on a Sony platform don’t matter anymore do they? Sony have stated they’re getting rid of them.
So, if anyone is remaining on a Sony platform following 2028, it will matter to them a whole lot more.
If of course someone like yourself maybe or anyone else doesn’t wish to remain on the Sony platform, then of course the terms and legalities of disc based ownership will be of no consequence or concern.
So if you don’t plan to remain with Sony. Don’t worry. If you do, then we should all help to make it a better place to be. Simple.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@Crecca Genuinely, who is showing support for this? I must have them on ignore. I’ve seen people explain their opinions for how crap it is, or how the law works, but no one agreeing with Sony on this.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@FreasurePlanten Agreed, I think choice is a wonderful thing, and the last thing I want is less choice as a consumer, or hobbyist or fan of anything. The fact I get choice means I'm actually more willing to spend my money, something a lot of companies seem to actually really not understand.
Same with GTA, using that as a current example, just knowing that the "full" version is the premium version, and that version can't also at the same time be bought from say Steam, GoG, on a disc for PS5 makes me less likely to actually purchase it at all.
Choice matters to us all and should be encouraged and laws should be protective of choice, but sadly, more often than not they protect those who rather ironically wish to evade paying more tax to the lawmakers in the first place.
Ah well, at least we can enjoy the games as they are allowed to be enjoyed under a dystopian future, for now.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@CielloArc Yep, agreed, Sony therefore has a lot in common with this sites comment threads.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@Bizzy Awards a Buttered Crumpet
Of course you can, like I've said, spitting out truth bombs on this site seems to need the disclaimer that it's not personal opinion, much like how Sammy reporting on this doesn't mean his opinion matches that of the terms or laws.
We can be called the naysayers to physical by many no doubt, but the truth is the future is all digital, so we better get accustomed to the laws and terms and learn to fight for better ones quick.
Accepting the future doesn't mean you or I agree with all of it.
Awards another Buttered Crumpet because it's Sunday and F it.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@Dannz What @Bizzy says, sadly stores as in physical brick and mortar stores or online ones selling physical games know that it would cause an uproar directed towards them, not the platform holder they’re selling a game for.
That and long established terminology has been accepted, simply by not being challenged for years.
Like how I can go on Prime or Sky now and “buy” a film, but I sure as hell don’t get to decide how long I have access to it, I don’t get to burn a copy of it and I don’t get to trade it.
Buying and the surrounding legality of it with regards to wording does need to change, I completely agree. As this is where a lot of the misunderstanding stems from.
People keep repeating “but I bought the game on disc”, not realising the “buying” of a physical disc isn’t the actual game, it’s the license to use the disc as a physical key to access the game for a time period the platform holder sees fit.
All of this needs to change and is vile as far as how it treats we the consumers/buyers/purchasers, but as I have stated before, until physical media begins to be taken away, people have been happy at large to not challenge the laws or terms.
If I could change the laws buying would be a term that should only be used when owning something. And the buying of any license, be it on a disc, paper, thumb drive, cassette tape or mini disc, should all state it’s a license you are buying.
No store wants to point this out as it makes them the target and laws don’t enforce the need to point it out.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@zebric21 Oh I know we agree and are only jibing at one another because it's a bit of fun here and there.
I think that's the point with it all, it's all futile, physical in music only stays for myself due to artists and their labels realising there was a LOT of missed money on the table compared to streaming.
Nothing is being done for my benefit as a consumer. I do think you're right, both digital and physical as far as rights are concerned are sort of doomed, as in these companies didn't care years ago, a few people on a random site aren't going to make them care anymore.
Resistance is indeed futile, good bit of fun every once and a while resisting the great dystopian future they've sold for years in film though, am I right? Hahaha.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@chatbot Absolutely agreed!
And with regards to your disc being physically taken away, gosh no, to my knowledge Sony do not have a department that is like the American ICE, where they conduct raids and take people/items/lives/rights away.
So, if we disregard fires, floods, other natural disasters for your home, accidents or burglaries, then of course consoles failing and needing to buy a replacement or disc degradation over time, no your license on a disc should hold up just fine!
However, the law and terms relating to that license still state at any point Sony can revoke it, so due to not having an ICE-like group, that would likely come in the way of bricking the game install file, your console, closing your account etc.
Yet, as we can all agree, the liklihood of those things being actionable from Sony are very small, so yes, I would say physical is the more preferable option for many.
The only reason it's not preferred on a PS5 for myself is due to a lot of travel (so loading into another PS5), share games with my partner and child that we play simultaneously and use a Portals.
On every other platform I use and fully support physical, whether that be music, film, TV, Switch and so on. Most of the media I consume in my life comes from a physical format in some way shape or form.
So yes, I agree with you.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@zebric21 See, but therein lies the issue.
You stated, I'll paraphrase;
'The best option is dead (within gaming for distribution media).'
And this right here is the issue, you assume I don't agree.
Yet, I shall say this once more in lots of tiny words so people understand and can skim read ...
... I agree with you fully, the best option is dying and I am angry about it and I do think physical should remain along with second hand markets/buying and selling.
At no point during all my writing on this article comments section have I said I do not agree that physical should remain, or that I think it's terrible, or that I don't like it.
You're literally conversing with a bloke that has spent thousands of pounds on CD's, vinyl, Switch 1 and 2 games (playing catch up on a missed Nintendo generation).
So I love physical and think Sony is so, very, very naive and silly for jumping the gun on this. Something I have also stated before on this site.
See my point, how we all likely have a lot more we'd agree on if we didn't make assumptions?
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
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Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@Wiceheid Oh I absolutely agree. Again, I as I stated to Mr Cage, stating facts isn't something that should be equivalent to my stating my opinion unless I have stated it is indeed my opinion.
You've just stated everything I previously pointed out is correct, but then allude to the fact I am missing a point that makes your point stand upright.
The thing is, I didn't disagree with your point previously, nor do I disagree with your point now. I fully agree with your point.
The free market of capitalism for which many of us are located within does allow more freedoms over physical items, whether the original IP owner wishes for that to be the case or not.
However, that isn't the future we need to be discussing. If digital rights are soon to become everyone's only rights, as in once physical on PlayStation ends, Xbox and Nintendo (in time), then the only rights worth discussing are those which relate to both and that will apply to all moving forwards, as in all available purchases (being solely digital).
Like how a commenter just above this states 'I own my physical games though'
That is both a truth in the eyes of trading the physical disc, and not true in relation to the 'games'.
I just think people really need to understand that my stating the laws and terms we've all happily agreed to, doesn't mean I am stating any personal opinion in doing so. If someone wants my opinion, all they need to is ask, as they'll only make a fool of themselves upon assuming.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@Mr-Cage I completely agree with you.
See, this is the issue with online discourse nowadays. Look at the comments here, people are more concerned with getting people out on technicalities, or arguing with one another, rather than actually discussing the matter at hand.
All I have done is state what the terms and conditions and the law surrounding the licensing of media such as this is.
These are the same terms and conditions one agrees to upon booting up a PS5, creating an account and using it, and the same ones we agree to in a non-verbal, non-written state by using a disc inserted into the drive, or a downloaded game from a data centre.
Yet, as you can see here, a lot get up in arms about their opinions of those laws, their values as a gamer in this hobby and so on, directing it at other users, yet they should be directing it at Sony.
It's important to note, and I shouldn't have to note, but my stating terms and conditions we've agreed to and the laws surrounding them is not equivalent to my agreeing with them.
I don't agree with Sony and their refund policies, their digital/physical ownership terms, their customer service is worse than Waitrose but better than Xbox in my experience, so somewhere between tolerable and utter crap.
The list of issues I have for their gaming division is actually quite considerable, yet people wouldn't know, because they don't ask, and they only care to come online for 5 minutes, bring people down to make their own life feel better and then ultimately do nothing about the disc issue and move on.
Humans are like this, we could all learn the world is ending in 10 minutes, and we'd all still jump online and argue with one another that the mushroom cloud is actually not real and it's all a simulation and that we won't die but instead it's a projection or a reptilian agenda.
My stating facts doesn't mean I agree with them. We all need to stop taking cheap shots and sink a big win for the community at large instead.
So I fully agree with you, but then I always have, it's just I always encounter in real life people who actually realise you're stating a fact not an opinion without constantly having to preface everything with a disclaimer.
In short: I agree. I state laws and facts on this matter and people hate that due to it not going with their opinion, not realising their opinion may match mine, but neither opinion changes the laws and terms. We should all do better and change the crappy ecosystems not try to change one another.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@zebric21 Even now you still say “maybe” all of that is true. It literally is true, it’s not my debating, it’s the laws and the terms you agree to.
It’s a tangible, proven fact. Yet the fact you put maybe indicates you’re not sure yourself, which again means you’re pushing the agenda of a license on a disc and not knowing what that actually means.
If you care not for the restrictions of a disc or digital and yet use it, there’s nothing wrong with that. But seeing as the entire world is transitioning to digital formats in gaming, even if in years to come for some other brands, maybe just maybe we should care.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@BinaryBoss Yep, no matter how much I say it, then tell people to not reply to me, but read what’s in the terms first, and they just don’t. I’m just at a true loss for how people think because CEX/GameStop allow trading it’s their legal right and is a benefit legally over a digital file.
Firstly, digital or physical, they’re both digital. Minor pet peeve that means nothing, but makes me wish we’d come up with new terminology.
Secondly, the fact an independent third party accepts a file on a disc in exchange for money isn’t in Sony’s terms nor is it protected under the terms of the license.
If by law, and the terms, discs meant ownership, it would mean I could pop the disc into a burner and there would be no DRM, it would mean Xbox couldn’t legally ship some games with no game data on them, and it would mean Nintendo couldn’t publish Game Key Cards.
It is either owned and has to be present on the medium, or it’s a license. We can’t be out here saying discs and cartridges are owned as in the game and then having the same laws allowing nothing of the game to be present.
The laws allowing nothing to be present but a license means the law states you’re buying a use of the license.
You get this, I get this. Now if everyone could get that this is and has been an issue, otherwise GoG wouldn’t exist, then we could all actually make progress.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@Kz_Eikon For the most part yes, and for the most part has made up the terms for years. People just only read what’s here and don’t actually read the terms regarding licensing and ownership independent of this site.
You can tell by what they say about digital/physical.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@AlexPorto Absolutely, agreed. But they can legally at any time decide to not allow that game to load up if connected to the internet, they can legally brick your console, they can legally even encourage you to download a patch that then only allows you to play the intro of the game for 5 minutes.
Honestly, though all I mention is silly, it’s entirely legal, and that should be something people think about.
If you want freedom of ownership, which I support too of course, we on PlayStation don’t have that. We have the illusion of it. The only thing that’s happening now is Sony is taking away one of the illusions they’ve used.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@Mr-Cage They don’t let you own the games when purchased physically either. Only GoG allows you to do this. As in you can literally do anything with it following purchase, burn it to disc, plop it on a hard drive, trade it with a mate etc.
Like with physical, say you and I buy Silent Hill on PS5 physically, but one of us also buys it on GoG (naming random game I haven’t checked what’s is available on what service).
Now if your PS5 disc gets scratched, burnt in fire, stolen, you aren’t legally able to make a copy of that PS5 disc. Because you don’t own the rights to that, you own a right to use the license (and of course any files of the game) on the disc, by putting the disc in a PS5.
Now if we had a GoG copy of the license, we could burn a new disc for one another, legally, and could trade it on a thumb stick, legally.
That’s the sort of freedoms people should be clambering for.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
@PaperAlien You also don’t own physical games, you own the disc itself, as in the literal case and disc, and the freedom to use the license on it.
Due to it being a physical and tangible item you can trade/resell it. However, the rights of the license on said medium are the same as the digital alternative.
This is something outlined both in the article and by myself, but people still aren’t having that penny drop.
Re: Sony Reminds PS5 Owners Their Digital Games Are Licensed, Not Sold
As stated in the article, and as I have stated far more times than most here care to read, physical games also have very similar terms attached.
Ignoring the fact a physical item can be traded, the actual licensing terms surrounding both a cloud file and the one on the disc remain the same.
This, and only this is what people should be discussing. The fact that saving physical media doesn’t improve laws and terms surrounding games.
That if we want better ownership rights, as in legal rights to ownership, currently only GoG provides that. Literally no disc based game offers it.
So if people want to discuss ownership, as I have said multiple times, licensing rights and laws for both cloud keys and disc keys are similar and almost identical other than some wording relating to disc/digital purchasing.
I look forward to January 2028, when more may realise this and actually want a conversation that brings about change when it’s too late.
Cloud/disc, they are both being licensed to you, and no matter the format the license is on, that should be the point that bothers you.
Re: I Travelled 8,000km, from the UK to China, to Play a PS5 Game Set in London
Love this! I have visions of you just saying you’re popping out for milk, and then swept up in a whirlwind visit to a studio like this!
I may just pop Chengdu on my map, and I look forward to your merch run musings in the future!
Also jealous of the panda visit! Keep up lots of stories like this when you can.
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 647
Playing the latest CoD Beta, finishing up the game Stray, and then getting some swimming done, plastering and gardening.
So a mixed bag for me, no work for a change and just chilled out really.
Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!
Re: Take-Two Aims to Bring the Hammer Down on GTA 6 Leaker, Requests Help from Microsoft, Discord
@djlard No crimes against physical ownership have been committed.
If you truly are suffering from the intense levels of paranoid delusions you seem to display, genuinely, seek help.
And if not truly suffering, but instead are being hyperbolic for the sake of it, look up laws regarding the licensing of media on the physical distribution medium, and ease off on selling yourself short on the internet so freely.
Re: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 4 Beta: Start Times, How to Get Early Access, and What's Included
@BonezKnowz You’re welcome buddy, have fun!
Re: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 4 Beta: Start Times, How to Get Early Access, and What's Included
Also, as a little treat for the first person interested reading this.
Through my work I have another code left for the closed Beta this weekend.
If you go to http://callofduty.com/betaredeem then enter your PlayStation/chosen device login, it will ask you to enter a code.
Enter this code: 1ZV9-MH4L0-64RD
It will then provide you with another code for your chosen platform.
Saves someone needing to pre-order to gain access this weekend or watch a Live Streamer in the hopes of a drop etc.
See, having a bloke on the inside is useful for something, even if it's just to irritate commenters here and provide the odd code for a game most of the website claims to hate.
See you on the Beta Battlefield, I promise not to cheat ...
Re: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 4 Beta: Start Times, How to Get Early Access, and What's Included
Me and my partner are going to jump on tonight, should be a good bit of fun to get a feel of it before release.
Looking forward to it, now just need to finish up some work emails before 7pm when the Beta opens its warm embrace of a mind-numbing battering to the senses it provides.
Re: Take-Two Aims to Bring the Hammer Down on GTA 6 Leaker, Requests Help from Microsoft, Discord
Copyrighted material has been stolen, there is no other conversation to be had other than that of this being a crime.
No one here would likely take kindly to their creative endeavours, be it photo of their child, writing they did, book, album or game being stolen and used against them.
A hacker, who is blackmailing using stolen assets, along with rinsing money through a crypto pump and dump is indefensible.
The fact Take Two ain't no saint doesn't justify stealing years worth of peoples work and using it against them whilst also trying to push a cryptocurrency.
If we wished terrible things upon those who we think have skewed views of the world and don't have great actions, we'd likely be destroying a whole lot of lives from this very website.
Get a grip, and realise that stating it's not okay to steal, blackmail and pump and dump a crypto is not equivalent to justifying the fact that Take Two can be a bit of a poor employer and company.
False equivalence is a thing, look it up, then learn from it.
Re: 'We Don't Need to Aggressively Sell the Console': Sony CEO Says Timing of Memory Crisis Is 'Lucky' for PS5
@Carnage Right okay, not really sure how your point is any different, other than adding staff with a business are also treated poorly. However, I'm glad we agree, even though you seem to think we don't.
Re: 'We Don't Need to Aggressively Sell the Console': Sony CEO Says Timing of Memory Crisis Is 'Lucky' for PS5
@Th3solution Having worked for Sony, and other's of the same ilk, both smaller and larger ... I can't name a company that I have worked for where internally they treat consumers with understanding, graciousness and a discerning nature.
Now have I known of a lot of companies that pretend to be those things to consumers successfully? Yes, many. But it's always an illusion.
You don't get to be a multi-billion dollar corporation and put consumers first, you get to be that by telling consumers what they want and then appealing to it.
Think Pepsi, Coke, Nestle, Apple, Microsoft. Not one cares for rights, environmental impacts, people.
Re: 'We Don't Need to Aggressively Sell the Console': Sony CEO Says Timing of Memory Crisis Is 'Lucky' for PS5
@RoomWithaMoose Oh, it's tough for me too, people just mistake it for not being because I see objectively all sides of a box just not constantly screaming about a corner of it.
The moment I am not entertained, I stop buying, simple.
Re: 'We Don't Need to Aggressively Sell the Console': Sony CEO Says Timing of Memory Crisis Is 'Lucky' for PS5
I must admit, people have claimed they desire Sony and their PlayStation brand to be a lot more transparent of late, well, here we are now, realising why many companies prefer to either be fake or silent.
The truth is always the case that consumers are cash cows, but there is very rarely a consumer happy with hearing it.
Re: 'We Don't Need to Aggressively Sell the Console': Sony CEO Says Timing of Memory Crisis Is 'Lucky' for PS5
@AhmadSumadi How deep can the hole get?!
It would seem that's what their financial team ask of our pockets.
Re: 'We Don't Need to Aggressively Sell the Console': Sony CEO Says Timing of Memory Crisis Is 'Lucky' for PS5
I would say milk me dry Sony, but it would seem that's already the plan.
Re: PS6's Purported $1,000 Price Point Could Lead to a 40% Slump in Sales
@DartLOD My daughter bought Taylor S tickets on my card for her and a friend and I never checked that account I gave her the card for.
You, have just done a better job than my accountant at reminding me to check what I now very much do not wish to! Haha.
Re: PS6's Purported $1,000 Price Point Could Lead to a 40% Slump in Sales
@Joel_Lives Same for me with regards to the handheld, since getting a Switch 2, and owning a Portal, a true portable is my main focus moving forwards.
It just fits better with my hectic in and out of the house life.
Re: PS6's Purported $1,000 Price Point Could Lead to a 40% Slump in Sales
@GoatFace04 Okay, £/$1,000 is 16% the value of your car.
It's more than the value of my car, which is a second hand Freelander 2.
It's also more than what I paid for my two cats.
I'm just not sure what your statement is meant to portray, if a console being priced at 16% the value of your car is not appealing and something you don't want, then surely just don't buy it.
Just to be clear, rather obviously, as I have stated previously;
Everyone values different things in life, everyone is on a different income to one another, everyone justifies how they spend their own money, and none of this I take personal issue with.
If you don't wish to buy a PS6, then it doesn't matter what price it costs. Why concern yourself with the percentage of cost when compared to your car if you don't want it?
Then if you do want it, we've all had years to save.
Then if you've had a life whereby you can't save for it, then you have to wait.
I grew up in a home whereby I had one game, maximum two, to play all year, until Christmas/Birthday. I grew up eating crap food because that's all I could be given by my parents.
But I know they did their best at the time, and thankfully I am not in that position. But remember, I come from a household where one game a year is all I had, so I'm a bit confused now people expect the gaming hobby to provide them with a new game a day.
Re: PS6's Purported $1,000 Price Point Could Lead to a 40% Slump in Sales
@dskatter Oh for sure, so then surely buy the games one can afford, no? This isn't Pokemon, people don't need to play every game ever before they die, and there will be always games people want and can't afford too, unless millionaires.
This can be applied to anything, I can buy a 4K bluray player, it's a good deal, but I know realistically I could spend hundreds and thousands on discs. But then I just save and use self control.
Just PS Plus Premium (to get games to play if that's all someone can budget for), and the price for the PS6 (rumoured), is still cheaper each month than if I were to try and have all of the streaming services, Sky TV etc.
I mean a PC for £3,000, lovely, amazing, but then the more games I buy the more it costs in the long run, as I say, it can apply to everything like this.
If someone has their only argument be "I can't buy as many luxury entertainment items as I want", that's not really something that's going to get much sympathy anywhere but here.
Don't many of us want more than what we have for the most part in life?
Re: PS6's Purported $1,000 Price Point Could Lead to a 40% Slump in Sales
@Mythologue Of course it's trivial by its very nature, no? It's a hobby, revolving around gaming. One whereby if you are not happy with the price of a companies wares you can simply buy elsewhere.
The fact you consider my breaking down saving for a luxury item as trivialising is frightening. Saving £2.74 for a UK resident with a full time job and wishing to have a hobby should be trivial. Otherwise the hobby is not for them. And as I pointed out, nor is Netflix, Sky TV and so on.
This is what adults do, they save for the items they want in life.
The ones of us in the world that can't then save, or afford to save for some items in our life we get over and move on from. I can't afford a Ferrari, it doesn't mean I go on to the Ferrari fan forums, complain that it's a car hobby and I should be able to afford it and how unfair it is.
Re: PS6's Purported $1,000 Price Point Could Lead to a 40% Slump in Sales
@Mr-Cage Exactly mate, that's the angle I think all should take.
If, like you, a console in general is not worth a speculated £1,000 price tag, then I highly encourage all of those thinking that to not buy it.
If, however, like me you have friends that buy the latest cars, pay more on their mortgage due to getting a bigger home than they need in an area they don't need, buy Rolex's, Tag's and so on, it's a fools game in my opinion for them to be spending that money on things to prop up their personality.
However, my purchase of a £1,000 console that gives me on average 7 years of fun is going to be a whole lot better of an investment than my mates Rolex, which what, tells the time if he's lucky enough to not walk around certain areas of London with it for too long.
It all comes down to personal entertainment, affordability and priorities.
The only thing I don't understand is as you now know, I think paying large sums for a timepiece on my wrist is silly, yet for that reason you won't see me on a "luxury" timepiece forum complaining about the price.
If I don't want a fancy watch, I don't worry about the price of what it shall be, or how much the next watch shall cost, I simply don't engage with the forums, the groups surrounding them and quite literally know nothing about their releases.
So I guess I just find it confusing that gamers are one of the only hobbyists that purposefully go on to a group, about an item they don't want, to say they don't want it at that price.
Imagine if we swarmed a Coach, Prada, Rolex or something of that ilk forum and kept copy and pasting how much we hated their prices and won't buy their products. It would do nothing to worsen the brand and it would only highlight how silly we are.
If someone doesn't want to buy a product due to all manner of reasons, of course that's brilliant they are exercising their free will, but then why do gamers feel the need to be upset over the price of a product they don't wish to purchase?
I ain't sitting in my Land Rover Freelander 2 that's hanging on by a thread and complaining at the price of a Lambo. Surely people understand it sounds silly to say, I'm not interested in the PS6, to then go on a forum post they won't buy it and complain about the price, no?
The price of any product in the world is inconsequential if you do not intend to buy it.
Re: PS6's Purported $1,000 Price Point Could Lead to a 40% Slump in Sales
Say, for arguments sake, the £1,000 is correct.
Then, let's assume that console has a lifecycle of around 7 years, again, for arguments sake.
That's £2.74 a week (if saved for 7 years prior, or even paid for out of savings during the lifecycle of the device) for a whole lot of family entertainment in my house.
It's cheaper than Sky TV, Netflix 4K, it's even cheaper than YouTube Premium.
£10.96 a month is still cheaper than my mobile phone plan, which gives me a whole lot less too.
If I were personally worried about an item costing £2.74 in savings per week, over the course of 7 years to acquire, I would be worrying about a whole lot more in my life than gaming.
So, save £2.74 a week from when the PS5 released to when the PS6 will and you have the money needed.
There's people who spend more on vinyl players, phones (to then barely use the actual phone feature), PC's for gaming, and the list goes on.
Is there money in the economy for people on a mass scale to spend this on a frivolous item for entertainment? Yes. The items people purchase at large shows this.
Will there be a demand based on what the product itself offers? That remains to be seen.
All I know is I am happy to be on the side of making games not deciding the entire global financial structuring of R&D, manufacture, marketing, shipping and contracts etc.
I guess all there is now to do is wait, they say patience is a virtue don't they? Yet the only virtue gamers seem to be good at is signaling.
Re: This Is Your Best, Most In-Depth Look at Silent Hill: Townfall Yet
Really excited for this, really loving that some horror game franchises are having their moment again from my childhood.
Will be picking this up around release no doubt if I get time, even if not I’ll be getting it soon on just so I can play a tiny bit at a time haha.
So yeah, looks great and can’t wait!
Re: GTA 6 Gameplay Leaks Continue as Group Makes Demands of Rockstar
@Slideaway1983 Honestly, it’ll be worth a watch even if via other means! Well, I’m saying this, if they do a good job, which to be fair, their shows are really smashing it of late.
But same, regarding Apple. You’re talking to a bloke who uses VPN’s from countries I prefer to the main few, use Ubuntu as a daily, my email isn’t even with a main provider and is paid for and actually private.
My Windows PC only exists for work, goes through my home lab and is stripped of connecting to anything other than the studio HQ server and software updates, then gets turned off.
So yeah, no Apple fan either! 😂
Re: 'Tiny Team' Working on Next Horizon Single Player Game, Years Away from Release
Right, so crazy idea I know;
Take Team A, that doesn’t want to work on the flailing fart in the wind of a live service idea … wait, this bit is crazy deep so hold on …
Then combine them with the ‘Tiny’ Team B who is working on the next tentpole of an already established idea with a proven track record financially …
… then we end up with a studio working on an idea that keeps them afloat, keeps Sony pumping out IP people associate with PlayStation, helps to sell the brand and blah blah blah.
One could argue combining at this stage would be a substantial waste of corporate funds. To that I would say, Hermen, my little sausage, when this releases it’s going to squander a whole lot more funds than cutting your loses now.
I think fresh ideas should be experimented with, and they always are behind the scenes by us lot at studios. Yet, there should only be approval for them when they test well internally and with focus groups … and, when the studio is already proving themselves capable of pumping out what funds said experimentation.
Basing an idea on let’s take characters from established IP, let’s remove what makes their IP beloved, and then add live service and micros transactions, yeah no.
Now Hermen, you delightful little bean, you didn’t listen to me or my colleagues when I was working there, and you sure as hell won’t read this. Yet if you could somehow psychically pick up what I’m putting down that would be much appreciated.
I honestly feel like CERN with the LHC have put me in an alternate timeline at times. If ever there is a choice, can I be in the timeline where Killzone is still a thing and just because it’s a thing we don’t have Sony suits thinking we should let one of the blokes there call many of the shots for PlayStation. Okay cheers!
I’m off to have a cigar, pint, sit in the garden and ponder what life would be like with more Killzone and less floundering of wealth on ‘hot takes’ by a bloke who only has limp, cold and lifeless ideas.
Re: GTA 6 Gameplay Leaks Continue as Group Makes Demands of Rockstar
@rjejr Wait, I’m finding out on this thread here that Apple is making Neuromancer?!
Now I’m going to have to bloody DuckDuckGo it and see what in the world I’ve missed, if this is a joke you’re a cruel individual. 😂
EDIT: It is real. Thank you for inadvertently bringing this to my attention!
Re: Opinion: Hermen Hulst Has Failed and PS Studios Needs a Change
‘ Hermen Hulst Has Failed and PS Studios Needs a Change’
Agreed, big time. I won’t hold my breath, but I’ll wait with anticipation for the day it changes internally.
Re: GTA 6 Gameplay Leaks Continue as Group Makes Demands of Rockstar
@Ken_Kaniff Just don't buy their products and services and stop interacting with their fan sites, mate.
Surely the adult thing for us all to do is not support a company or its fan sites instead of wishing for a group of socially inept but computer literate people to bring down the man so to speak.
I mean I don't like your comments, and therefore your actions, I'm not wishing for hackers to come after you and your family. I just don't wish to support you in any way.
If you truly care so little of what happens to Sony, their branding, their corporation, I take no issue with that.
It's that you then waste your own life, energy, time by coming on to a website, focused on said brand, to then insult them.
A neighbour I don't like is a neighbour I don't acknowledge. It's the equivalent to my standing outside their house randomly in the day and evenings to just shout a random insult and walk off.
You dislike Sony, I agree in many ways with the insults they have received, doesn't really make sense to stick around throwing stones after you've made your point though.
Re: GTA 6 Gameplay Leaks Continue as Group Makes Demands of Rockstar
@SEVENTEENSOILS 'I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make here'
Welcome to my world. 😂
I think a lot of energy is misdirected on a societal and governmental level, and when seen in the gaming landscape it sheds light on just how damaged the world is.
We have hackers who seem to be trying to pump and dump a fictitious asset, that can in fact become a real asset, but then as you say likely avoid repercussions due to their home countries, then claiming to care about a game studios morals and ethics.
Then we have police trying to arrest Bob down the road because he's getting into a row with his neighbour and "incited violence".
I don't know if it was my naivety, or the way the world was, but I just didn't feel like it had this much anger, pain and frustration in it, especially emotional heat that seems to be misdirected so frequently.
It's like this hacker group is angry at what exactly? They don't earn enough in a respectable job they need to then try to commit cryptocurrency scam/crime that would no doubt gain interest from the FBI, base it on caring about a game they will likely pirate anyway, you know ... as a downloaded file not on disc.
Yet they could always have just you know, directed their frustration at Sony, for announcing not one game, but all games will cease to be shipped on disc.
I just don't understand how the gaming landscape has become less about gaming, on websites, social media and so on and more of the corporate strategising and attacking.
Remember when we all used to game, get gaming magazines and just talk about games we love with our mates? What happened? Why are we going on a gaming website to read of hackers shifting a form of currency, claiming to care about discs, and then having comments even defending it.
Genuinely, did we all just grow up and become more interested in the politics of gaming more than actually, gaming?!
I'm with you, it would seem everyone from those in authority to all of us below them need to align more with what brings us joy and entertainment, as sadly I no longer believe gaming equals entertainment to a lot of people who are vocal online.
And it's usually down to discussing things that either they have no control over, have no knowledge of, or impacts them on a personal level little compared to if they just picked up a controller/keyboard and mouse and gamed.
I just think both the people as in society at large and those who claim to protect us are very disillusioned over what is actually important in life.
It's like how I saw a person claim how important these hacker groups are as they can help fight against the abuses online and so on. What a bunch of untrustworthy people can help to protect children online?
How about parents parent, keep their kids away from crap like mine did and actually take responsibility. The next solution to bad parenting shouldn't be to jump on board with a hacker group of strangers holding your daughters hand through the sea of online activity.
Anyway, I'm ranting, much like yourself I have no idea what my point is. I just agree, and yet even by agreeing I don't really know what comes from it all.
Re: GTA 6 Gameplay Leaks Continue as Group Makes Demands of Rockstar
@rjejr I like your humour, you get a buttered crumpet! 'Od'ing on Adderall' is going to be a line I use in some way shape or form, giving you forewarning of royalties owed in due course.
Re: PlayStation Scaling Back Horizon Live Service PS5 Game as Sony Failures Continue
Internally the last I heard is what Jason has stated. Honestly, I know this sounds sort of odd to say as someone with a circle of people in that fold, but none of us really expected executive approval to remain for this project anyway.
Personally, I'll be far more shocked if this gets a release, than if it gets cancelled.
The last I worked for Sony it ended with a heated discussion about upper management (Hulst was in his new role for about just under two years).
I would only go back after he's left, he pushed a lot of people I know and really good teams into a direction that's either ruined their morale, ruined their reputation with the user base, or in part ruined the trajectory of their careers. Not single-handedly of course, but he's played a part, and at no point was his part respected internally.
Guerilla have a great engine, they have a great team of people that know how to get astounding results from said engine, they have never, nor do they currently ... have great management.
Hulst proved himself to be capable if Sony executives wanted failed Killzone attempts and a great engine, at no point did he ever prove capable of fitting the role he was provided.
Good luck to them I say, they really, really need it. Hulst better be gone in time for PS6 shipments to be hitting the ground, because I don't know of an insider that wants to work with that mess of a mind palace.
I mean he's more than welcome to prove me wrong, but in the court of public opinion right now, all he's doing is proving every naysayer to be correct. So again, good luck, move on to PepsiCo or whatever he desires next and get this entertainment train moving again please.
Re: GTA 6 Gameplay Leaks Continue as Group Makes Demands of Rockstar
More pointless hacktivist bull, pretending to have the agenda of cleaning up the gaming industry, but also surprise, surprise having an alternative agenda.
And of course, the usual suspect defending hackers as usual. Christ on a cracker, couldn't make it up. Defend Sony, loser, shill and Lord knows what else, defend a Hacker group, North Korea, Russia and more and you're apparently encouraged on here.
And what exactly are the hackers trying to leak? A dev build from an office in Scotland from years ago, yeah, don't worry lads that'll scare Rockstar into submission.
One thing is for sure, these hackers clearly don't know many Scottish people. Let's hit a Scottish person with a wet flannel and see how they bend to our every whim.