I'm really confused now, because you just told the SAME thing that I said "Previous" to my Last Post that you started the Covo with me about, that I essentially said that Sony WOULD Provide 60FPS only through a Lower Native Resolution because of the CPU and then Artificially Upscale to 4K by Using PSSR A.I and you told me IN No uncertain terms, NO that isn't the way that'll work?
Because I Never claimed anything would be a FULL Native 4K running at 60FPS on the PS5 PRO?
I Don't know how you could have, but maybe you did misunderstand something when you responded the very first time to my Original Post?
Again I'm Totally Dumbfounded, but we're Good, so no worries.
Wow...Info Overload...Sorry but I don't wanna get lost in the Weeds with you, because I'd have to Compete with the Holy Bible in its total page count to respond properly to everything you just threw at me, so to keep it Simple, I'LL just say this:
It's not my Hardware or Yours and
this forum is All speculation anyway, but it is Sony's Actual Hardware, and I'm sure Sony's gonna do it some how or some way, without breaking the Laws of Physics, and Mark Cerny will (I'm Sure) in greatest of Detail explain it Waaay Better than You or I ever could, and I'm going to Dare to say it AGAIN, that it could be some kind of "Outside of the Box thinking" that most people can't comprehend or see right in front of their faces, or at least some kind of "Secret Sauce" that Sony's cooked up that were missing, like maybe some specs or information that's hidden from sight.
But after all, it's Sony's Own Custom built Hardware, and Not Run of the mill Off the shelf P.C Hardware that we're all trying to speculate about, so I'm excited to see how their going to do it, because clearly too many people are Negative and think it can't be done solely because of CPU Constraints, even though some people think it'll be possible through the implementation of PSSR's Machine Learning, so it should be real interesting to see how they've confused so many other people into believing it can't be done, but yet have convinced themselves that they're right.
Happy Gaming ✌!
My understanding as an example is, If you go from Native 4K Image that's pushing 8 million pixels around Per Frame and Drop to Native 1080P which is pushing only 2 million pixels around Per Frame, that besides obviously dropping GPU Load, your also going to drop SOME of the CPU overhead as well, so that it could then can help provide that Extra Headroom and Resources to Push the Frame Rates Up, then couple that with the Increased 10% CPU Boost and then apply PSSR to bump the Visuals up to artificially upscaled 4K.
Naturally I would think that Sony would Target 60FPS with the Highest Possible Native Resolution without PSSR Turned On on the PS5 PRO, so only strictly as an "example", for Sony to find what that Starting Native Resolution should be, they start at Full Native 4K without PSSR Turned On and obviously you'll get Lower than 60FPS Frame Rates and then dial down the Resolution with PSSR turned on till a balance of 60FPS and until A.I upscaling 4K is still being maintained, which depending on how advanced PSSR already is, it may be able to do this process completely on its own, it definitely would be smoothest way to find the Highest Native Resolution possible and still achieve 60 FPS, while also helping to pick highest possible starting Resolution per game, with some games being higher or lower than just the 1080P starting point that the Leak suggests(Upscaling 1080P to 4K in 2ms using only 250MB).
I can't help but think if Sony says it'll make games run at 4K Visuals and 60 FPS that their going to use their usual Outside the Box thinking, and yet a lot of people as usual are stuck in the Classic "PC Bench Racing Mode" where your build is only as good as your slowest moving Part, which no one is saying isn't True, but instead people need to be asking "How are 4K Visuals (Not necessarily Native)& 60FPS actually achievable with the Parts and Specs that are on Display so far", but most people are holding onto that tried and true, but narrowly focused viewpoint, by saying it can't be done because of the paltry 10% CPU Increase is still going to be a major "Bottleneck Problem", yes that's the Norm, but that's with ALL Things being equal, they are not equal, when looking at Sony leveraging other sources that the Pro4 didn't have, like PSSR Machine Learning to achieve the specified results of 4K(Visuals) at 60FPS.
Think about it, Sony isn't pulling off a magic trick or breaking the laws of physics, it's gotta be here for us to see if we look hard enough, so unless there's some Mark Cerny "Secret Sauce" that we don't know about yet, or the Leaked Specs are wrong or incomplete, there's got to be a way.
What I'm most excited about for Sony's PSSR Machine Learning, is that since they outright own it, and PSSR works through their own Hardware System, and Plays through their own in House Developed Software for the whole world to see, I think we're going to see them Update PSSR at a Mad Pace when comparing it to the World Industry Leading Nvidia DLSS ML and especially when comparing it to AMD's casual & slow FSR update pace.
Because thinking about what separates Sony from Nvidia & AMD, is Sony's a Big First Party in House Software Developer with tons of 3rd Party Software running on the World's most popular console, so it should provide Sony with more than enough Maximum motivation to Update Often, not to mention that Everyone's naturally going to Constantly Judge and Critique how well their PSSR Machine Learning Actually Looks, Works & Plays on the Newly Launched PS5 PRO versus if it had the capability of having Nvidia's DLSS running in it, and so by Default I think they're going to naturally strive to put much More Effort & Energy into how Often they Update their versions of Machine Learning to make it more on parody with Nvidia's DLSS and if my speculation holds true, and it's updated quickly enough, maybe beyond DLSS in short order, but who really knows, but thinking about the possibilities are very exciting.
For People that think that PSSR will be as good as Nvidia's DLSS 3.5 from the start, No it won't, but from what the Leak states-(1080P to 4K in 2ms using 250MB Memory) its a Solid Starting Point at (V-1.0), but I don't think they'll stay behind for very long, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Happy Gaming ✌!
I think you're right about the Price of $549.99 U.S Dollars, but only as long as they do at least a $50 drop on the Base 5 model to $449.99 U.S, but if they keep the Base PS5 Price the same at $499.99, then I say that it's going to be $599.99 or about $100.00 more than what ever the Base PS5 is when they launch the PS5 PRO, and its mainly because of the current state of the world economy.
Your also right about backwards compatibility especially with the SDK's, because while everyone has been screaming needlessly about the Anemic 10% Speed Upgrade, and that the PRO is still using the Exact SAME RDNA 2 based CPU Chip that the Base PS5 has, they weren't factoring in that Sony has to make sure that the PS5 PRO is FULLY Backwards Compatible with all those modified SDK's that got created going from the PS4 to the PS5 for the backwards compatibility of Both the PS5 & PS5 PRO, and Sony wouldn't be able to do that with a completely different CPU chip, so they smartly used the same RDNA 2 Chip and simply Overclocked it for a 10% gain.
By the way, you might want to re-read my last post again, I was half asleep when I first wrote it, and had heavy brain fog, I re-edited it like 15 times to make it sound more logical and cohesive, it was a mess, like one Huge Rambling Run on Sentence...LOL
Yeah, all Sony would need to do is have the coding implemented into the PS5 PRO Firmware itself from the start, so PSSR would recognize "ALL" of the SDK's (old or new) so it would only need to have the PSSR Switched on through the settings.
I think Sony's development approach to the PRO Model is going to be unique as far as how they develop games for it.
I think Sony may tell developers make 2 versions of games for the Base & PRO Model like they normally would, but instead of Targeting the Higher Resolution version for the PRO Model like Normal, & the Lower Resolution for the BASE 5, I think it'll be the Reverse, because they can now create the necessary head room & Resources with PSSR that the Minor CPU Upgrade can't Provide, & use the Extra Headroom & Resources that PSSR has FREED up to increase the FRAME RATES to at least 60 FPS from that Lower Resolution.
With PSSR turned on you could have as an example, a PSSR Manufactured 4K Image at 60 FPS of GTA 6, & if you decide to turn OFF PSSR you then Revert to the Base PS5's Natively Higher Resolution running its own Upscaling Solution that's Running at Lower Frame Rates, but it'll still Run Smoother from "ALL" the other Extra Muscle that has been added to the PS5 PRO, & if they leave the Frame Rates uncapped for that Base PS5 version for the PRO Model, the PRO version could still run at over the 30 FPS, because of the Extra 10% Bump in CPU Speed & again the extra GPU Muscle.
Again people are to Focused on the CPU side of things & not looking at the Big Picture of how PSSR then the GPU with 3x Ray Tracing is the bigger advancement with how it'll ALL work together with the extra CPU bump, not complaining about the Weaker upgraded CPU that they look at as a typical "bottle neck", they are narrowly "Bench Racing" the Parts like a typical PC Build & not looking at Sony's "Outside the Box thinking" that everybody should be used to by now...Lol
I think it's also funny that people want to complain about the Price while at the same time not understanding that Sony is trying to make it more affordable.
Because they really would have broke the Bank with spending More on a CPU Upgrade, because the latest PS5's currently use 6nm Chips, and they would have had to decrease to a smaller nanometer size to make any significant Improvement in CPU Speed, without having over heating issues, & it can't be done without making the Price even MORE unreasonable, as an example the Base PS4 went from a Jaguar 28nm Chip and so Sony shrunk the PS4 PRO's Chip to the SEVERAL TIMES SMALLER Vega 16nm Chip size(Thats 12nm smaller), so it was stupid easy for them to increase the CPU to have 31% more Speed, because its NOW a Cooler Running & Less Power Hunger 16nm Chip(That's Probably Not even Overclocked being its 12nm smaller), where as the Base PS5 and the PS5 PRO is looking more & more like there still going to use the SAME 6nm Size Chips in Both, hence the anemic 10% Gain, which is most likely to keep it from having a melt down from Sony having it Overclocked from 3.5 to 3.85.
Even if they had spent more money which will certainly increase the Cost of the Console by even more, by dropping one size down to a 5nm chip, to be able to get better clock speeds, it still would only be a 1nm Chip Size Drop, that's tiny, especially when comparing it to the massive Drop in Size of 12nm between PS4 to the PS4 PRO Chips, but people keep comparing Apple's to Watermelons and saying its the same...Lol.
What's the cliche, "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you Can't please ALL the people ALL the Time".
So it's just more of those Mental Gymnastics we were talking about earlier...Lol
That totally makes sense, and after going back and re-reading it, it was all me confusing what you said, not you...Lol
I was trying to retain all the different points that you touched on while typing my answer to your post on my phone, and couldn't easily go back and check it, but again it was me, and not you, sorry about that...Lol
My mind was stuck, and locked in on all this PS5 PRO stuff and confused the two, but at least my brain acknowledged that it didn't make sense, and that it was probably wrong...Lol
By the way I think if Microsoft surprises everyone with an outrageously powerful handheld Game System that blows the competition out of the water feature wise, and they do it by throwing the Kitchen sink at its Specs, I think it'll do good, but it wouldn't hurt to undercut the competitions Price per Performance, to really help to maximize getting more people into their new ecosystem, even to the point of them loosing a little money on the actual cost of manufacturing the Handheld unit wouldn't hurt Micro$oft any...Lol
It'll be interesting to see what Microsoft actually does next.
That is a lot of stuff to chew on, as far as Microsoft, that rumour about a possible Handheld that their making, some people online are speculating the very thing you touched on by saying "they need to make something couch friendly like a Steam Deck" that's exactly what people are talking about online, so it wouldn't be Suprising if it turned out to be true, it would certainly coincide nicely with their vision of Game Pass and the Future of go anywhere and Play Everywhere Gaming!
By the way you mentioned that you or people in general, not wanting a New Sony console, because they'd have to start over with their Trophies from scratch, I'm confused because with the PS5 Pro and even the Next Gen PS6, it should all transfer over from your last console like it always has? Let me know if I read that incorrectly...Lol
As far as the Price of the PS5 PRO, it's a personal choice, I don't have a problem with selling my PS5 Privately and then Purchasing the PRO Model, I did it with the PS4 and bought the PS4 PRO day 1, I forgot to mention that I also sold the PS4 PRO and got the PS5 on Day 1, and I only managed to get one because my friend use be a Manager for GameStop at the time, and he told me to hurry up and get there as fast as I can to put money down on it, because it was when the Very first Pre-Orders opened up at GameStop, so I hopped in my Car and broke every traffic law trying to get there, including the Sound Barrier, and put a $100 Dollars down on it, and by the way I got there in time to get the very LAST Pre-Order available, so Day 1 PS5...lol.
But as far as the Tech inside of the PS5 PRO Model, mark my words, people are sadly mistaken about its full capabilities by only looking at the Paltry CPU upgade without looking at the whole architecture as a whole and how it'll work together, specially for making new games, and so without me sounding like a Parrot and going into more detail, we'll just have to wait until Sony and Mark Cerny explain it all out in finer detail.
By the way, I'm also waiting for the Switch 2 to release, because Nintendo has and probably always will make some of the best software games on the market, despite not having the most cutting edge console, Games are always Number 1, hardware always 2nd!
DF Video is a realistic look at the PS5 PRO upgrades, but they break it down accurately for each individual upgraded component in the PS5 PRO, but they don't summarize what it means with ALL Components working together, and what improvements people will see when playing games on the PS5 PRO with all those upgraded components working together in unison, and so it paints a duller picture of what the PS5 PRO Model can actually do.
I personally think if they reversed the order they took, which they were going from worst improvement(CPU) to best improvement(PSSR), and instead if they started with PSSR First, it would paint a MUCH Better Picture of what the PS5 PRO will be able to do with the other components working WITH PSSR, and what it'll do for Past and Present and Future Titles, and I think people watching would understand better that the Real Game Changer that Sonys centering around with the PS5 PRO is the A.I Machine Learning itsef, followed by its Massive GPU upgrade with 2x to 3x Ray Tracing Capability, then the slightly added overhead gained by up-clocking the CPU 10%.
I think Mark Cerny is definitely going to better clarify how everything works in unison to get the best possible performance out of the PS5 Pro, which again I'm betting it will be centered around PSSR and it's Machine Learning Capabilities, but again I think digital Foundry was just spec-ing out the individual components like you do with a typical off the shelf computer build before it's all put together, and Sony doesn't do typical computer builds with it's custom chips and structural architecture, so we'll have to see if Mark Cerny has any Specs or "Secret Sauce" to add that may be hidden from sight.
On Microsoft, yeah their not selling enough Current Gen Hardware as it is, so their focusing on maybe a Handheld System, at least that's the Rumor going around lately. What do you think their cooking up?
@Ainu20
I totally agree with your statement about DLSS, and what I would like to add is, what people aren't thinking about, is that with PSSR being Sony's own upscaling solution, they can implement improvements and upgrades at will, and do so without having to wait for updates from AMD for FS2 or any other third party with their type of upscaling solution, makes me excited to see what Sony can do with it!
But it's a shame that not enough people know about machine learning and what it can do now for games, and what it could possibly do in the future for gaming, because if they knew, they'd know exactly how much of a game changer it can be, IF it's implemented correctly!
Sony's already saying that currently PSSR can take a 1080p resolution and upscale it to 4K in 2ms with only using 250 MB of memory.
But proof is in the pudding, so we'll have to wait and see how really good it is, but I doubt Sony is going to release the PS5 Pro with broken machine learning installed from the go, but again we'll have to see.
But if what they are saying is fully true, then it looks to be an awesome upscaling solution!
@GamingFan4Lyf
Yeah when I watched the recent Video on the PS5 PRO from DF, they mentioned how disappointed they were with Microsoft not utilizing the machine learning aspect of the Series X except for HDR, which they mention isn't chip based Hardware like the PS5 PRO is, and I can't remember if they said it was 40 or 70 TOPS capable in performance when comparing it to the PS5 Pro's actual Hardware based PSSR with its 300 TOPS Capable Performance, and that their absolutely shocked that Sony beat Microsoft to the Punch with Full silicon based machine learning, considering that they had at least some software based Machine Learning already in the Series X and didn't really try to use it for anything else except for HDR.
Watch the Video and skip towards the end, because they discuss the Machine Learning aspect of the Pro5 as being the real game changer, not the 10% Upgraded CPU, which they basically describe as anemic.
They start with what their least impressed with, then move on to what their most impressed with. 1st-CPU 2nd-GPU 3rd PSSR's A.I Machine Learning.
Happy Gaming ✌!
EDIT': Sorry, I only glanced at your message, I NOW see that you already watched the DF Video...lol...my bad...I need to quit trying to speed read stuff...again my bad...lol.
Your absolutely right! The fact that Sony went ALL IN on A.I Machine Learning with the PSSR able to do a massive 300 TOPS, and with it being their own proprietary property that they control they can then continuously upgrade it on their own time to make it better without waiting for AMD to improve their FSR Upscaling or any other outside companies upscaling technology, they can now also unify the Developers into using their upscaling as the standard, so all games will look and play better without different Developers using different methods or standards of upscaling!
And as a Result everything will look and play phenomenally better and be more efficient when doing it, but not everybody knows about machine learning and what it can do, so that's why I think a lot of people don't understand how much of Game Changer this really is!
I read the same thing, the leak said no "per title training", so I took it as the firmware in the PS5 PRO itself would be already programmed to recognize the older SDK's and implement the PSSR Machine Learning to ALL of the older titles, so again no Per Game Patching Requirements (aka "per title training").
I watched the DF Video and they did critique the 10% increase in CPU Clock speed as being too little of an improvement, because with all things being equal, it wouldn't do much to improve Frame Rates, maybe 5 Frames a second at most, but that was with them focusing ONLY on the slightly upgraded CPU, if you move on to them talking about the PSSR Machine Learning that does a massive 300 TOPS then that changes things, because ALL things are NOT equal any more, because the PSSR on the PS5 PRO can take a 1080P resolution image an kick it up to a full 4K resolution in 2ms, so by starting out at a Lower Native 1080P Resolution it now gives the PS5 PRO a lot MORE resources for increasing that Frame Speed while still giving the Player a Flawlessly upgraded 4K image with the PSSR A.I managing the upgraded images, and does it all with only 250MB of memory use, and that's minimal considering they increased the overall useable memory of the available (and now upclocked) 16 GB's on the PS5 PRO by 1.2 GB's.
And DF was definitely most excited about the Machine Learning aspect for the PS5 PRO, they went from least impressive to most impressive feature in their discussion.
On a side note, I can't shake the feeling that Mark Cerny has more Specs or some kind of "Secret Sauce" that HASN'T been leaked yet, but we'll see, because the custom graphics chip seems to be overkill at 33.5 Teraflops, yet only gives a 45% increase in Graphical Rendering, and not only DF but others online are speculating that the Custom Chip appears to have some RDNA 4 aspects thrown in it with its 2x to 3x increase in Ray Tracing, so we'll have to wait and see. Happy Gaming✌!
The PSSR is what I'm most excited about, because at 300 TOPS it's going to be a Powerful Machine Learning solution that will help push lower resolutions to a higher fidelity 4K resolution and since it's starting out at lower a resolution it'll leave more head room for smoother higher frame rates, and as long as the A.I is implemented effectively, you shouldn't be able to tell if the Images started out at 1080P and look like fully Generated 4K images.
The weak point is Sony only giving the CPU a 10% increase, but the Graphics Chip appears to be a Custom solution that may use some aspects of AMD's RDNA 4 mixed in it, so it'll be interesting to see if this Monster Chip has something going for it besides the obvious 33.5 TeraFlop capability ( I'm looking at you Mark Cerny)...because we don't have ALL of the complete Specs.
But the 2x to 3x times Ray Tracing Capability is also exciting, and I'LL be interested in how they'll implement that effectively without it affecting the overall system too heavily, again I'm looking at you Mark Cerny!
But, for me I'm still pumped up about the release of the PS5 PRO!
I have to chime in here, because I'm personally going to buy the PS5 PRO just like I purchased the PS4 PRO when it came out, and I think ultimately it'll do great even in the current economic climate, do to the fact that when things get rough people tend to continue to spend money (that they probably shouldn't or don't have) on entertainment or gaming to ease and forget their financial pain, and that's in spite of everything else that may be going on with their finances, and without getting into depth on my personal finances (and No I don't have Johnny Got Rox Money), or how bad inflation and the overall economy is, I think its a personal choice and how people go about making that decision is also personal, like in my case, I'LL sell my PS5 to help mitigate some of the price that the PS5 Pro model will cost, I did the same thing with the PS4 to get the PS4 Pro, so if the PS5 PRO is under $700 U.S Dollars TOP's (Prefer $600...lol), it'll be a no brainer for me, but that's me.
But I Personally think Sony knows what their doing by releasing a Mid-Generation Refresh, especially considering that out of 117,600,000 PS4 Consoles Sold to date (according to STATISTA Feb. 2024) that 23,520,000(20%) of them were PS4 PRO's, and without having a Crystal Ball that tells me the Economic Future for the Next 4 Years and how well the PS5 Pro will do, it seems to be a safe bet that's going to be Profitable enough for Sony to do so, and I'm sure that's what their counting on, after all the Previous Track Record speaks for itself, and let's face its not the Vita or PSVR 2, it's attached to their Mainstream Gaming Climate, and their Crystal Ball is probably waaay better than mine is...Lol...Happy Gaming✌!
Lol😂...that's so True...the mental gymnastics that goes on these forums is hilarious, I watch people comparing Apples to Watermelons, and losing sight that the only thing in common is that they're both fruit, so it becomes a race for the Olympic Gold in the Arena of Mental Gymnastics...again your right, it's hilarious😂!
Yeah your right, and I don't understand all the Negativity, because if they hadn't added the PSSR "A.I" Machine Learning capability, I probably would have waited to purchase the Pro Model, but when they added PSSR A.I Machine Learning, along with a massive GPU Upgrade along with 2x to 3x the Ray Tracing Capability, that easily puts this Mid Generation upgrade well above what they did with the PS4 Pro vs. Base PS4, so again I don't understand all the hate?
Evidently all the Doom sayers aren't reflecting on comparing the past PS4 Pro upgrade to the Base Model, and then realizing that it DIDN'T hurt the original base model in any way when making games, let alone the fact that with A.I built into this Pro5 model, it makes it even easier on any impact "if any at all" on the Base PS5 Model because the PSSR aspect is Automatically implemented through A.I.
In fact I think it bodes well when pointing towards the Future Power of Sony's Next Gen PS6, especially with Microsoft Already bragging about their Proper Next Gen Console, by stating and telling the World it'll be the Most Powerful Console ever built, yet people on here are worried and acting like Sony is going to sit back on their laurels, and rely on the Power of PS5 Pro and NOT Push Heavily enough to Upgrade the PS6 as much...What?... because of the existence of the PS5 PRO....Again What?...I'm confused...where is this coming from, because ALL the History shows the opposite effect....Lol...I guess you have to let the haters hate...Lol✌
I think (IF) the leaked Specs and Info are accurate, buying the PS5 PRO seems like a no brainer, especially when the Leak says that the PSSR isn't tied to "Per title training", meaning Sony doesn't have to implement a patch per game to get the benefits out of it, my take from this Info is that it'll automatically apply stability to higher resolutions and higher frame rates through its built in A.I Machine Learning for ALL the titles that exists already, that already pays for the Price of Admission for me, let alone the 45% Speed increase in Graphical capabilities, along with 2x to 3x times the Ray Tracing capabilities, and 4 extra GT/s or 128 Gbs per second of Faster Ram, and a 10% Faster CPU, and only if you wanted to get the Maximum Benifits of the Pro 5 (you would then) require the patches or added coding for Past or Future titles in order to get the FULL Potential that the PRO has to offer!
I'LL be pulling my 2 Terabyte SSD from my PS5 to put in the Pro, and then sell my Base PS5 to mitigate the High price of the Pro and not look back!
@themightyant 😳- Whoa, slow your roll, I never implied that you were some kind of Xbox fanboy nor am I a Sony Fanboy?
Now evidently you somehow gleaned that from my nuanced point of view, seeing as most people think if you say anything negative about one side that you must be for the other, without having the capability of having a nuanced point of view about both sides.
In this case it just so happens to be my nuanced point of view about Microsoft and their direction they're taking Xbox with grooming us with Game Pass and then comparing it to them, when they tried to Ram X-Cloud down our throats last generation. The only difference NOW is instead tactically there trying to sweetly GROOM everyone with absurdly cheap subscriptions to Game Pass, and expecting everyone to believe that there's nothing to see or to worry about. It's feels like that cliche about the Frog in boiling water, that there isn't any boiling water yet( being groomed), but yet later(in the future)there will be, but only after gradually adjusting(grooming) the Heat up slowly, then were all dead frogs in that Boiling Pot of water. Then it's too late.
Look, I don't care if it's Sony Microsoft, Google or whoever the corporate Lackey is, I'm not going to blindly take anybody's corporate word for what they think there vision is, when it's their actual job to further execute their Financial agenda in the smoothest possible way, but after taking into account Microsoft's horrendously aggressive anti-consumer screw up, at the very beginning of the last generation of Xbox console, I'm not buying a word they say.
All corporations have short-term and long-term profit agendas, which is completely normal, but I think Microsoft is still heading in this (eventual) All Streaming direction that evidently some people believe that they aren't , because of all the corporate speak- (AKA synergy) hence my comment about buying into Microsoft's synergy, and in my honest opinion, I think is very short-sighted. Just my opinion, nothing else. And again, Instead of us being force-fed xcloud, and receiving such bad PR and backlash, yet now instead we're being slowly and smartly groomed into thinking everything is fine, just because this time there not trying to Ram it down my throat? But instead are giving me sweet sub pricing and little kisses and nibbles? Just smacks of someone being suckered.
While I didn't buy an Xbox console until the Xbox One X came out last gen, because in my opinion they seemed to have changed their tune long before then about X-Cloud, but this Generation after seeing Game Pass pricing and all the hardcore grooming, there's no way I'm going back to the Xbox ecosystem. I sold the One X and my Pro right before the PS5 came out and got it day one. But just because I now only have a Sony Console, doesn't mean that if they screw up in some way that I won't blast them, because unlike other people I can have a nuanced point of view about many things, not just the "your side" against "my side" point of view, lol 😕-Do what you wanna do, say what you wanna say, but understand no one's putting you down. Happy Gaming 😁✌!
@themightyant 😶- I get that your feeling the corporate synergy from Phil Spencer, but just like any drug dealer pushing their product, I'm not going to trust, nor do I think anyone should take their word for(the dealer) about the price and quality and future of Gaming being this harmoniously equally shared ecosystem in The Gaming Community, with both models at play of Streaming and Physical Hardware, when obviously it's just the start and in its infancy of them pushing for a streaming future, and once firmly established, will be waaaay more profitable than digital or physical media combined, especially when comparing playing that media off of expensive hardware that they have to design and create and ship and then lose money off of. 😕-I don't know what people expect him to say, but I'm sorry he's not going to put on a black hat and twist his mustache, and forcast their true intentions, especially when it's STILL at the beginning of them(Microsoft) trying to further implement and establish their streaming service, when obviously there currently still is physical hardware to further overcome and counter and possibly slow their intentions of that streaming future, and what they really want that streaming future to be?
For them to State anything otherwise about Gamepass, would only be the second biggest mistake barring the start of last Generation of Xbox one with the power of Xcloud, when they had to do an about face, but I get it, their the good guys now and their intentions are pure, unlike last gen? Even though this is a obvious reach around maneuver, to compensate for the bad PR and backlash from last Gen, while accomplishing the same goal?
I personally don't buy it, nor do I think anyone else should, but it's your choice. But personally I'd feel like a sucker if I did. To each his own.
😶-As far as "Gamepass being a Thorn in Sony's side", people thinking long term should realise it'll eventually end up being a Thorn in everyone's side. Gaming and Games themselves have always been about the evolution of the technology of the HARDWARE that pushes the medium further into the future in the aspect of how the players experience the visuals of the game itself. While everyone can agree that visually an awesome looking game doesn't mean a good game, people can agree that a great playing game that ALSO uses GREAT visuals will pull you into it that much deeper, I mean isn't that why we all get stoked for Next Gen consoles. Well if we get sucked into streaming models of gaming like Gamepass, and allow Physical Hardware to become useless and extinct, what do you think gaming is going to look like? Without developers being pushed to use the latest hardware anymore, how much further out do you see game's using better visuals than we already do wait for, when we switch to New next Gen hardware now? I mean without that push for visual improvements from actual physical hardware, why would developers push any improvements visually when it would become more expensive than necessary to their bottom line. Innovation would become more stagnant than it already is, and along with the data caps that we are already experiencing, will also limit the Developers reasons for getting ever increasing visual improvements in gaming through streaming without physical systems handling "All" of the games data throughput. Because on the Server side of streaming it won't allow the 5 to 7 year turn arounds on MAJOR graphical and technological improvements that Console gaming does. It will become a profiteering race to the bottom, with ever increasing subscription rates, along with visual quality stagnation, due to the lack of specific hardware requirements. An ALL Streaming Future is the beginning of the end of gaming as we know it. All the people who buy into it now, like someone who gets a Free or Cheap sample of an addicting drug, then only to find out much later that they now have to pay through the nose, and aren't getting the quality stuff that they use to, it emphasizes how short-sighted it is. While I try to personally only buy physical media, because I still believe that digital is the greedy gateway drug to the ever greedier games only streaming future, at least for now, digital still requires a physical piece of Graphical Hardware and is still preferable to a laggy, visually downgraded, data capped, and overly profiteering, streaming future that I see beginning with Microsoft!
@get2sammyb 😶-I think your more right about there being more variety than you know.
I say if if you use a template for a truly successful game and you use it for say a Trilogy like(HZD) and don't let the IP get stale or too stagnant, then it's MORE of what people are wanting and expecting, unlike UBISOFT using a (Template) for the same IP as well as multiple different IP's, which is a cookie cutter template approach like @Milt was referencing. So IMO it's a totally different situation in comparison. Again I think your right, and @Milt is a little off base with his comparison Imho...lol.
😄- Excellent article Sammy!👍
Putting nostalgia aside for past games that the Studio has made, the writing was on the wall and people tend to have a hard time with change, even despite the hardcore facts staring them in the face.
I too hope the talented people affected by this land on their feet, and that we'll see their talent in other future projects, even if it's with another studio!✌
😄-I Platinumed this game on the PS5, it was the FIRST game I downloaded from the PlayStation+ collection on PS5 after Platinuming Astro's Playroom.
I wanted to purchase it back when it released but I kept hearing that it had problems running smoothly even on the PS4 Pro, so I held off purchasing it and glad I did, because it ran smooth and beautifully at 4k 60fps on the PS5 in backwards compatibility mode, so I'm looking forward to a FULL on PS5 Version of Days Gone Part 2!
I don't understand why people Rag-On and complain about the game in any way, it's character's and story are solid enough and the actual gameplay is a blast to play!
I say bring on more SAWMILL HOARDS! (500+ Freakers) + PS5= Butter smooth 60fps gaming!
"SEVERE SOFTWARE MEMORY LEAK ISSUE" 😶-From what I have read about, the game is crashing across ALL platforms, it seems like the Software has a "Severe Memory Leak" issue embedded in it, and it would explain the different amounts of play times people are getting before it crashes, and the reason some people's games aren't crashing at ALL, and it's because in their case the Ram isn't critically used up...(yet). "Memory Leak" issues can be difficult to track down and fix. Try to Google"Memory Leak Issues" for "Games" and check out the process that happens as a result of having it. It sounds dead on point to me.(IMO)
Edit: Here's a link to the "Steam Community" with people tracking the problem, and even people with cutting edge graphics cards and tons of RAM are experiencing framerate drops after playing for short and long play sessions with RAM getting chewed up, so after they save and reboot the game on PC, the FPS goes back up as well as the RAM, and then it cycles back down all over again the longer you play. Acting just like a "MEMORY LEAK". Your play style can determine how long you play. An example- "fast traveling" more often uses less RAM than "Driving around" inside the game. Also playing for short enough sessions won't crash it, because your not depleting the RAM down to the critical point of crashing it. So in that scenario you could end up with "0" crashes and tons of ("accumulated" play time.) The "MEMORY LEAK" in the Software is not allowing the game to PROPERLY dump ALL of the OLD outdated memory files in the RAM to allow for all NEW memory files to fill up the RAM, till it builds (and improperly stores it up) with too many old files, and starts to slow down the FPS and or just outright💥crashes, and it's ultimately because of the lack of enough space left over in the available RAM's memory pool for NEW data files to be input and output correctly because of the now DEPLETED SPACE inside the RAM from the OLD non-deleted files, so as a result it can't run the game properly! https://steamcommunity.com/app/1091500/discussions/0/2988665684343723477/
@oldschool1987 😶-I agree with you totally. Like Larry Flint said when he won with the U.S Supreme Court's decision.
If the Constitution protects a scumbag like me, then we're ALL protected. These other people are well intended, but they don't grasp the slippery slope there on, that's why the saying "The Road to Hell is Paved with good Intentions".
Like Larry Flint also said, if you don't like my magazines, don't buy or Condone it, it's YOUR CHOICE.
Tyranny isn't allowed to survive in a civilized Society that doesn't allow censorship, especially because of different people's feelings and interpretations of what is right and wrong.
😶-My buddy is a GameStop store manager, and he had only 2 Bundled Standard disc PS5's and 4 XBOX's, 2 digital S and 2 series X consoles for Black Friday. His store is in a Large Mall and security had a hard time keeping a hopeful future PS5 owning crowd of people from entering the Mall before it opened at 7am, so 2 of them bum rushed the security guards and got by them, and ran to my buddy's store and starting beating the sh*t outta the closed GLASS doors and asking him how many PS5's he had for sale right before the security guards caught up and chased after them again. Needless to say they didn't get anything after pulling such a futile stunt, except for being ejected completely from the property of the Mall. People are at a complete non-thinking frenzy when it comes to getting Sony's New next Gen Hardware.
😶- Bought the PS4 Disc version at Amazon for $49.94 U.S dollars to play on my PS5. Besides digital prices stay stagnantly high for far too long before permanently dropping price, PS sale prices aren't competitive within the SAME timeframe as the Physical Disc versions of the game. If MS and Sony weren't greedy and followed price reductions at the SAME speed as STEAM for digital then maybe, but they don't, so physical disc's for any consoles that I own.
😶-Nope pure physical copies for me, barring some add-ons, and digital only indie stuff, and if I really want to collect something I'll repurchase a GOTY Edition. In the future physical media and systems are going to be super collectable, because non-ownership of games will be an issue for everyone in the future, along with forced pricing(IMO). To each their own, happy gaming everyone😄👍!
@carlos82 😕-I was literally going to post something based on the subject of the header, and after reading all of your comments, I can't.
Because ALL of your comments are spot on, with my views as well...lol😂.
So all I can say is Ditto to the very well articulated comments you made...lol😂
@Yaycandy 😶-I totally agree! It's amazingly silent and it stays pretty frosty considering after hours and hours of gameplay, with only slightly warm air pumping outta the back exhaust vent.(At least in my experience so far) I'm ready for the games to really start pushing it.
😶-My PS5 is in the Horizontal position and is completely silent when playing games on it, the fan can only be heard after I was playing Days Gone at 4K at 60fps and there were a horde of Freakers (about 200 of them) on the screen and I jumped up and went over to the PS5 to see if I could actually hear the fan, and instead of it being completely silent, I could actually hear the fan with my head about 6 inches from the console and it was whisper quite instead of it normally being completely silent, I then checked the exhaust vent and after 4 hours of gameplay and the horde still frantically killing some bikers on the screen, the air coming out was only slightly warm and not even remotely close to hot. No complaints, I definitely would say that I got a solidly built first run PS5.
😶-No coil whine on my Nov.12th launch PS5 Console. I had to check to see if the fan was even running after putting my ear practically against the console and still couldn't hear it, so I put my hand at the back of the exhaust vent(Many Times) and felt a slightly warm breeze coming from it. I think people are going to get slightly different results from their consoles, seeing as there coming off an assembly line, and these are first run products, so Quality Control is going to vary. That's why I ALWAYS buy Extended Warranties on first run products just in case, but after putting my PS5 through it's paces so far, I might have wasted that warranty money, because it seems mine is solidly built.
@Flowright 😄-Sounds like we might have the same TV's, mine is a 2017 4K Sony XBR-X930E with Dolby Vision and native 120 Htz panel, when I bought it in 2017 it was like $3200 not including tax! What's funny is Sony said they could easily add 1440p resolution to the PS5 if there's enough demand, but our Sony TV's actually already support 1440p as well as 1080p at 120fps and 4K at 60fps, so since clearly they've already made TV's that support the resolution why not have the PS5 support the resolution too.
It's cool that it runs 120fps in 1080p on my PS5. My Sony 4K TV only has a 2.0b HDMI, but it's native screen is 120Htz and it has 1080p at 120fps compatibility all other resolutions including 4K run at 60fps because of the limitation of having an HDMI 2.0b connection.
@get2sammyb 😶-I thought that I read somewhere, that with the SSD in the PS5 that the downloads wouldn't have to go through the copying process before installing which would also make the overall download an install process quicker as well, unlike when downloading to the PS4 or Pro with an HDD?
😶-Is that part true as well, or not?
😶- I think once the systems and devs get better game engines to work with, and more middleware becomes available, as well as the compression tech getting tightened and refined further in this new gen, we'll see better resolutions with higher frame rate increases with ray tracing turned on.(Full 4k-60fps-RT)
But if not... there's always a possibility of a PS5 Pro or Xbox-(insert name) in 3 or 4 years being able to hit those higher marks consistently...lol.
😕- My guess is that it's going to be pre-installed and built into the PS5 and linked as part of the function of the "Create Button" itself with maybe some other added functionality not yet mentioned, just a guess on my part, because why not leave it as the "Share Button" instead of renaming it the Create Button in the first place.
But who knows with Sony? It could have something totally different...😕?
@zekepliskin 😕-Ok let me get this straight, I'm minding my own business and all of a sudden I have you correcting me like a little child would be corrected, and I should eat your out of nowhere Sh*t attitude for telling me how I should write in forums and not be a little miffed about it, and then you want to say that I over reacted and I'm booty hurt...Lmao. Your a funny little man.😂🤣
😂-I don't know where your from but if you tried that Sh*t in a face to face situation, there would be more than just words exchanged, your a flaming coward and Pu**y for even starting this Sh*t first in a forum in the first place. Bye,Bye🐱 keep trolling!
@graysoncharles 😕-I'm confused? I didn't imply that you made that article? "I did imply that you posted it(the link), and Then asked why". Because it had "No Direct bearing" on this forum posting (by Sammy) of the Firmware updates on the Fan Speed on a game by game basis?
The only thing someone can glean from your linked article, is conjecture based on "actual or possible heat issues" at any given time with the PS5, NOT that they(Sony) were implementing (these specific) firmware updates to the fan to eliminate any heat issues in your article. Again we could assume(make a guess) that, but they didn't actually mention a thing about the Firmware update on the fans and because of that, be the source for Sammy's article. I mean I can't speak for him, but maybe you can, but that article has no direct bearing on this discussion other than talking(Implying) about heat issues on the PS5.✌
Edited:(the link)
@graysoncharles 😕-That link doesn't actually mention that the firmware updates to the fan speed are because of the subject of heat issues in this actual article? You posting that is an assumption (Not a DIRECT IMPLICATION) that (Sony) is doing firmware fan adjustments for that reason in that article, so why post it? Why? Because of it referencing heat issues and then associating the two together as the reason for it?😕 That doesn't mean that's why their(Sony) is doing this Specific fan adjustment via firmware update, it could be that it's an "Extra Measure" to making it cooler AFTER Already Fully addressing the cooling issues in the first place, we don't know? But that article doesn't shine a light on it either way? The Only true way without debating it, is when we(gaming community) all get our hands on Both of the Next Gen systems.✌
@get2sammyb 😕-I wonder(assume) that it's based off the recommended Average operating temperature parameters(in lab temperature Ranges), that ALL electronic devices recommend, and THEN what the temperature is running on a game by game basis?
I only mention this because data collection with "Outside real world temps"(customer based averages) running those games could vary wildly if not within that (Recommended) range, (Not knowing what the Range will be) but example I keep my house at 66°F ambient room temperature in the summer, my 2 other friends keep their temps at different ranges like one's 72°F on average and the more bill conscious friend at 80°F average, would produce different results on the same game by game basis.
So I would venture to guess it would be the former(Lab based recommended Op Temps) then testing different games within that Full range of Temps (Probably and safely going with the HIGHEST end of the recommended Range, then making the adjustment for the fan.)
EDITED: adjustment for the fan...lol.
@God_of_Nowt 😃-While I appreciate your "more neutral" opinion on this subject and wish for it to be true, I'm truly worried it's not. Seeing with the past year and these (Recent)purchases from MS as well as the deals being made, the harder core mantra being pushed more aggressively (than ever before) have started to paint a picture that's contrary to the (business as usual model). 😶- I'm starting to wonder if we're "fooling ourselves" into that " Boiling frog conundrum". "Put the Frog into boiling water it'll immediately jump out.(Like MS making it obvious Xbox one gen, an apologized) Put the same Frog into water and SLOWLY(MS reach around tactics this new gen) turn the heat up gradually and the Frog will stay in the Pot until it boils to death" I again, HOPE your right, but I really think that we(gaming community) are going to wake up to late to realize that we're boiled(F'd). "And collectively We'll All be at blame for it."
😄-(I'm an Optimistically Pessimistic person, the glass is ALWAYS half full, but I still want to know where the other f'n half went) I call it Positive critical thinking! ....lol😄✌
@God_of_Nowt 😄- This is the (basic conclusion) of that previous conversation that I had on the subject. -"The 2nd Analyst doesn't see how it could happen any sooner without it severely downgrading the gaming quality, along with the gaming communities experience that they expect with (FUTURE)Next Gen games.
(That is our future, but WE keep buying into "That Future is Close" mantra, when that's ALL of the gaming companies holy grail for Profitability, that also includes Sony as well, but MS are in the best position inside the market to push that downgraded but high profitability streaming future on (the gaming community) way faster than it should, and unfortunately that's what MS is doing right now, and people are repeating that mantra and other people are gobbling it up as fact and in doing so, helping (MS) Groom us and allow themselves(MS) to quickly enact that future too quickly, like they tried to do with Xbox one! We( the Gaming Community) should be the Ones who steer the ship, because if we don't, Well?... We ALL think people are whining now, I can't even Imagine it, especially if this is enacted to Fast."
EDITED: We need to Fear that Massive wallet that MS has "all to often" been whipping out in preparation of this new generation, their not taking losses for "No Reason" the pay off is staring "all of us" in the face, there just being sneakier this time, so we don't notice the NEAR(to happen too soon) long term goal.
@God_of_Nowt 😶- By the way I copied this from a previous conversation I had on another topic, just to show where I'm coming from- 👉 "I want you to think about the logic in this online discussion between 2 Analysts being asked the same question and glean what you can as far as what's more likely true and not true, but actually (Groomed Marketing). I was reading an online article and they asked both analysts if they thought this New Generation was going to be the last gen for Physical Hardware? (Paraphrasing)- the first Analyst Response: Yes it'll be the last gen for physical hardware, because the future is going to be All about easy access, go anywhere and play on Anything gaming, through those services, and it'll be faster more accessible and cheaper for people to do so. The 2nd Analyst Responded: While moving to soon to that model would definitely be a boon in profitability for the providers of the streaming services, without having any physical Next Gen console of any sort to deliver it. No I think there will be at least 2 MORE generations beyond this one before that should happen, for the simple fact that gamers expect improvements each and every generation and with full 4k gaming this gen and with the possibility of full 8k gaming with the following gen coupled with all the bandwidth and server load that those future demanding specs would require of internet & servers it wouldn't be possible. Because gaming strictly on servers wouldn't be capable of handling the bandwidth load without sacrificing something along the way, and even with factoring in costly NEAR foreseeable server technologies, it wouldn't be possible to deliver that experience that gamers typically require with each and every New Generation without a physical console. He goes on to say: When looking at having a Streaming only future we have to take into account that massively increased bandwidth coupled with current restrictive internet Data caps, and the current internet instability issues that people have locally and around the world, as well as all those other underdeveloped markets without internet that would be untapped without Physical Next Gen hardware.
@God_of_Nowt 😶-I feel pride in one's product, can be self serving in its own right, and I believe that the Japanese culture reflects that in many ways, and in turn (that way) serves both themselves and the customers because of it, all the while being a company seeking profit. 😶-On the other hand MS has gotten scorched-earth fed to them for NOT listening to Gamers for the business model they tried to go with at the beginning of this gen, and not only apologized for doing it, but reversed course. 😳But yet now thet(MS) are pulling a (reach around) tactic to achieve the exact same thing they tried at the beginning of this gen by using their wallet to shape that vision(by their purchases,deals,services) instead of letting it happen organically through the gaming community. Their grooming us this time to make that future happen faster than it should, because it more profitable than letting it happen with natural consumer demand steering it, and we'll(gaming community) will ultimately suffer for it in the Long Term. I personally find them "to cut throat and disingenuous" of a more typical company for me.
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Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@BAMozzy
I'm really confused now, because you just told the SAME thing that I said "Previous" to my Last Post that you started the Covo with me about, that I essentially said that Sony WOULD Provide 60FPS only through a Lower Native Resolution because of the CPU and then Artificially Upscale to 4K by Using PSSR A.I and you told me IN No uncertain terms, NO that isn't the way that'll work?
Because I Never claimed anything would be a FULL Native 4K running at 60FPS on the PS5 PRO?
I Don't know how you could have, but maybe you did misunderstand something when you responded the very first time to my Original Post?
Again I'm Totally Dumbfounded, but we're Good, so no worries.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@BAMozzy
Wow...Info Overload...Sorry but I don't wanna get lost in the Weeds with you, because I'd have to Compete with the Holy Bible in its total page count to respond properly to everything you just threw at me, so to keep it Simple, I'LL just say this:
It's not my Hardware or Yours and
this forum is All speculation anyway, but it is Sony's Actual Hardware, and I'm sure Sony's gonna do it some how or some way, without breaking the Laws of Physics, and Mark Cerny will (I'm Sure) in greatest of Detail explain it Waaay Better than You or I ever could, and I'm going to Dare to say it AGAIN, that it could be some kind of "Outside of the Box thinking" that most people can't comprehend or see right in front of their faces, or at least some kind of "Secret Sauce" that Sony's cooked up that were missing, like maybe some specs or information that's hidden from sight.
But after all, it's Sony's Own Custom built Hardware, and Not Run of the mill Off the shelf P.C Hardware that we're all trying to speculate about, so I'm excited to see how their going to do it, because clearly too many people are Negative and think it can't be done solely because of CPU Constraints, even though some people think it'll be possible through the implementation of PSSR's Machine Learning, so it should be real interesting to see how they've confused so many other people into believing it can't be done, but yet have convinced themselves that they're right.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@BAMozzy
My understanding as an example is, If you go from Native 4K Image that's pushing 8 million pixels around Per Frame and Drop to Native 1080P which is pushing only 2 million pixels around Per Frame, that besides obviously dropping GPU Load, your also going to drop SOME of the CPU overhead as well, so that it could then can help provide that Extra Headroom and Resources to Push the Frame Rates Up, then couple that with the Increased 10% CPU Boost and then apply PSSR to bump the Visuals up to artificially upscaled 4K.
Naturally I would think that Sony would Target 60FPS with the Highest Possible Native Resolution without PSSR Turned On on the PS5 PRO, so only strictly as an "example", for Sony to find what that Starting Native Resolution should be, they start at Full Native 4K without PSSR Turned On and obviously you'll get Lower than 60FPS Frame Rates and then dial down the Resolution with PSSR turned on till a balance of 60FPS and until A.I upscaling 4K is still being maintained, which depending on how advanced PSSR already is, it may be able to do this process completely on its own, it definitely would be smoothest way to find the Highest Native Resolution possible and still achieve 60 FPS, while also helping to pick highest possible starting Resolution per game, with some games being higher or lower than just the 1080P starting point that the Leak suggests(Upscaling 1080P to 4K in 2ms using only 250MB).
I can't help but think if Sony says it'll make games run at 4K Visuals and 60 FPS that their going to use their usual Outside the Box thinking, and yet a lot of people as usual are stuck in the Classic "PC Bench Racing Mode" where your build is only as good as your slowest moving Part, which no one is saying isn't True, but instead people need to be asking "How are 4K Visuals (Not necessarily Native)& 60FPS actually achievable with the Parts and Specs that are on Display so far", but most people are holding onto that tried and true, but narrowly focused viewpoint, by saying it can't be done because of the paltry 10% CPU Increase is still going to be a major "Bottleneck Problem", yes that's the Norm, but that's with ALL Things being equal, they are not equal, when looking at Sony leveraging other sources that the Pro4 didn't have, like PSSR Machine Learning to achieve the specified results of 4K(Visuals) at 60FPS.
Think about it, Sony isn't pulling off a magic trick or breaking the laws of physics, it's gotta be here for us to see if we look hard enough, so unless there's some Mark Cerny "Secret Sauce" that we don't know about yet, or the Leaked Specs are wrong or incomplete, there's got to be a way.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
What I'm most excited about for Sony's PSSR Machine Learning, is that since they outright own it, and PSSR works through their own Hardware System, and Plays through their own in House Developed Software for the whole world to see, I think we're going to see them Update PSSR at a Mad Pace when comparing it to the World Industry Leading Nvidia DLSS ML and especially when comparing it to AMD's casual & slow FSR update pace.
Because thinking about what separates Sony from Nvidia & AMD, is Sony's a Big First Party in House Software Developer with tons of 3rd Party Software running on the World's most popular console, so it should provide Sony with more than enough Maximum motivation to Update Often, not to mention that Everyone's naturally going to Constantly Judge and Critique how well their PSSR Machine Learning Actually Looks, Works & Plays on the Newly Launched PS5 PRO versus if it had the capability of having Nvidia's DLSS running in it, and so by Default I think they're going to naturally strive to put much More Effort & Energy into how Often they Update their versions of Machine Learning to make it more on parody with Nvidia's DLSS and if my speculation holds true, and it's updated quickly enough, maybe beyond DLSS in short order, but who really knows, but thinking about the possibilities are very exciting.
For People that think that PSSR will be as good as Nvidia's DLSS 3.5 from the start, No it won't, but from what the Leak states-(1080P to 4K in 2ms using 250MB Memory) its a Solid Starting Point at (V-1.0), but I don't think they'll stay behind for very long, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@Professor_Niggle
I think you're right about the Price of $549.99 U.S Dollars, but only as long as they do at least a $50 drop on the Base 5 model to $449.99 U.S, but if they keep the Base PS5 Price the same at $499.99, then I say that it's going to be $599.99 or about $100.00 more than what ever the Base PS5 is when they launch the PS5 PRO, and its mainly because of the current state of the world economy.
Your also right about backwards compatibility especially with the SDK's, because while everyone has been screaming needlessly about the Anemic 10% Speed Upgrade, and that the PRO is still using the Exact SAME RDNA 2 based CPU Chip that the Base PS5 has, they weren't factoring in that Sony has to make sure that the PS5 PRO is FULLY Backwards Compatible with all those modified SDK's that got created going from the PS4 to the PS5 for the backwards compatibility of Both the PS5 & PS5 PRO, and Sony wouldn't be able to do that with a completely different CPU chip, so they smartly used the same RDNA 2 Chip and simply Overclocked it for a 10% gain.
By the way, you might want to re-read my last post again, I was half asleep when I first wrote it, and had heavy brain fog, I re-edited it like 15 times to make it sound more logical and cohesive, it was a mess, like one Huge Rambling Run on Sentence...LOL
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@Professor_Niggle
Yeah, all Sony would need to do is have the coding implemented into the PS5 PRO Firmware itself from the start, so PSSR would recognize "ALL" of the SDK's (old or new) so it would only need to have the PSSR Switched on through the settings.
I think Sony's development approach to the PRO Model is going to be unique as far as how they develop games for it.
I think Sony may tell developers make 2 versions of games for the Base & PRO Model like they normally would, but instead of Targeting the Higher Resolution version for the PRO Model like Normal, & the Lower Resolution for the BASE 5, I think it'll be the Reverse, because they can now create the necessary head room & Resources with PSSR that the Minor CPU Upgrade can't Provide, & use the Extra Headroom & Resources that PSSR has FREED up to increase the FRAME RATES to at least 60 FPS from that Lower Resolution.
With PSSR turned on you could have as an example, a PSSR Manufactured 4K Image at 60 FPS of GTA 6, & if you decide to turn OFF PSSR you then Revert to the Base PS5's Natively Higher Resolution running its own Upscaling Solution that's Running at Lower Frame Rates, but it'll still Run Smoother from "ALL" the other Extra Muscle that has been added to the PS5 PRO, & if they leave the Frame Rates uncapped for that Base PS5 version for the PRO Model, the PRO version could still run at over the 30 FPS, because of the Extra 10% Bump in CPU Speed & again the extra GPU Muscle.
Again people are to Focused on the CPU side of things & not looking at the Big Picture of how PSSR then the GPU with 3x Ray Tracing is the bigger advancement with how it'll ALL work together with the extra CPU bump, not complaining about the Weaker upgraded CPU that they look at as a typical "bottle neck", they are narrowly "Bench Racing" the Parts like a typical PC Build & not looking at Sony's "Outside the Box thinking" that everybody should be used to by now...Lol
I think it's also funny that people want to complain about the Price while at the same time not understanding that Sony is trying to make it more affordable.
Because they really would have broke the Bank with spending More on a CPU Upgrade, because the latest PS5's currently use 6nm Chips, and they would have had to decrease to a smaller nanometer size to make any significant Improvement in CPU Speed, without having over heating issues, & it can't be done without making the Price even MORE unreasonable, as an example the Base PS4 went from a Jaguar 28nm Chip and so Sony shrunk the PS4 PRO's Chip to the SEVERAL TIMES SMALLER Vega 16nm Chip size(Thats 12nm smaller), so it was stupid easy for them to increase the CPU to have 31% more Speed, because its NOW a Cooler Running & Less Power Hunger 16nm Chip(That's Probably Not even Overclocked being its 12nm smaller), where as the Base PS5 and the PS5 PRO is looking more & more like there still going to use the SAME 6nm Size Chips in Both, hence the anemic 10% Gain, which is most likely to keep it from having a melt down from Sony having it Overclocked from 3.5 to 3.85.
Even if they had spent more money which will certainly increase the Cost of the Console by even more, by dropping one size down to a 5nm chip, to be able to get better clock speeds, it still would only be a 1nm Chip Size Drop, that's tiny, especially when comparing it to the massive Drop in Size of 12nm between PS4 to the PS4 PRO Chips, but people keep comparing Apple's to Watermelons and saying its the same...Lol.
What's the cliche, "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you Can't please ALL the people ALL the Time".
So it's just more of those Mental Gymnastics we were talking about earlier...Lol
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@GamingFan4Lyf
That totally makes sense, and after going back and re-reading it, it was all me confusing what you said, not you...Lol
I was trying to retain all the different points that you touched on while typing my answer to your post on my phone, and couldn't easily go back and check it, but again it was me, and not you, sorry about that...Lol
My mind was stuck, and locked in on all this PS5 PRO stuff and confused the two, but at least my brain acknowledged that it didn't make sense, and that it was probably wrong...Lol
By the way I think if Microsoft surprises everyone with an outrageously powerful handheld Game System that blows the competition out of the water feature wise, and they do it by throwing the Kitchen sink at its Specs, I think it'll do good, but it wouldn't hurt to undercut the competitions Price per Performance, to really help to maximize getting more people into their new ecosystem, even to the point of them loosing a little money on the actual cost of manufacturing the Handheld unit wouldn't hurt Micro$oft any...Lol
It'll be interesting to see what Microsoft actually does next.
Happy Gaming my friend✌!
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@GamingFan4Lyf
That is a lot of stuff to chew on, as far as Microsoft, that rumour about a possible Handheld that their making, some people online are speculating the very thing you touched on by saying "they need to make something couch friendly like a Steam Deck" that's exactly what people are talking about online, so it wouldn't be Suprising if it turned out to be true, it would certainly coincide nicely with their vision of Game Pass and the Future of go anywhere and Play Everywhere Gaming!
By the way you mentioned that you or people in general, not wanting a New Sony console, because they'd have to start over with their Trophies from scratch, I'm confused because with the PS5 Pro and even the Next Gen PS6, it should all transfer over from your last console like it always has? Let me know if I read that incorrectly...Lol
As far as the Price of the PS5 PRO, it's a personal choice, I don't have a problem with selling my PS5 Privately and then Purchasing the PRO Model, I did it with the PS4 and bought the PS4 PRO day 1, I forgot to mention that I also sold the PS4 PRO and got the PS5 on Day 1, and I only managed to get one because my friend use be a Manager for GameStop at the time, and he told me to hurry up and get there as fast as I can to put money down on it, because it was when the Very first Pre-Orders opened up at GameStop, so I hopped in my Car and broke every traffic law trying to get there, including the Sound Barrier, and put a $100 Dollars down on it, and by the way I got there in time to get the very LAST Pre-Order available, so Day 1 PS5...lol.
But as far as the Tech inside of the PS5 PRO Model, mark my words, people are sadly mistaken about its full capabilities by only looking at the Paltry CPU upgade without looking at the whole architecture as a whole and how it'll work together, specially for making new games, and so without me sounding like a Parrot and going into more detail, we'll just have to wait until Sony and Mark Cerny explain it all out in finer detail.
By the way, I'm also waiting for the Switch 2 to release, because Nintendo has and probably always will make some of the best software games on the market, despite not having the most cutting edge console, Games are always Number 1, hardware always 2nd!
So Anyway, Happy Gaming my friend✌!
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@GamingFan4Lyf
DF Video is a realistic look at the PS5 PRO upgrades, but they break it down accurately for each individual upgraded component in the PS5 PRO, but they don't summarize what it means with ALL Components working together, and what improvements people will see when playing games on the PS5 PRO with all those upgraded components working together in unison, and so it paints a duller picture of what the PS5 PRO Model can actually do.
I personally think if they reversed the order they took, which they were going from worst improvement(CPU) to best improvement(PSSR), and instead if they started with PSSR First, it would paint a MUCH Better Picture of what the PS5 PRO will be able to do with the other components working WITH PSSR, and what it'll do for Past and Present and Future Titles, and I think people watching would understand better that the Real Game Changer that Sonys centering around with the PS5 PRO is the A.I Machine Learning itsef, followed by its Massive GPU upgrade with 2x to 3x Ray Tracing Capability, then the slightly added overhead gained by up-clocking the CPU 10%.
I think Mark Cerny is definitely going to better clarify how everything works in unison to get the best possible performance out of the PS5 Pro, which again I'm betting it will be centered around PSSR and it's Machine Learning Capabilities, but again I think digital Foundry was just spec-ing out the individual components like you do with a typical off the shelf computer build before it's all put together, and Sony doesn't do typical computer builds with it's custom chips and structural architecture, so we'll have to see if Mark Cerny has any Specs or "Secret Sauce" to add that may be hidden from sight.
On Microsoft, yeah their not selling enough Current Gen Hardware as it is, so their focusing on maybe a Handheld System, at least that's the Rumor going around lately.
What do you think their cooking up?
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@Ainu20
I totally agree with your statement about DLSS, and what I would like to add is, what people aren't thinking about, is that with PSSR being Sony's own upscaling solution, they can implement improvements and upgrades at will, and do so without having to wait for updates from AMD for FS2 or any other third party with their type of upscaling solution, makes me excited to see what Sony can do with it!
But it's a shame that not enough people know about machine learning and what it can do now for games, and what it could possibly do in the future for gaming, because if they knew, they'd know exactly how much of a game changer it can be, IF it's implemented correctly!
Sony's already saying that currently PSSR can take a 1080p resolution and upscale it to 4K in 2ms with only using 250 MB of memory.
But proof is in the pudding, so we'll have to wait and see how really good it is, but I doubt Sony is going to release the PS5 Pro with broken machine learning installed from the go, but again we'll have to see.
But if what they are saying is fully true, then it looks to be an awesome upscaling solution!
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@GamingFan4Lyf
Yeah when I watched the recent Video on the PS5 PRO from DF, they mentioned how disappointed they were with Microsoft not utilizing the machine learning aspect of the Series X except for HDR, which they mention isn't chip based Hardware like the PS5 PRO is, and I can't remember if they said it was 40 or 70 TOPS capable in performance when comparing it to the PS5 Pro's actual Hardware based PSSR with its 300 TOPS Capable Performance, and that their absolutely shocked that Sony beat Microsoft to the Punch with Full silicon based machine learning, considering that they had at least some software based Machine Learning already in the Series X and didn't really try to use it for anything else except for HDR.
Watch the Video and skip towards the end, because they discuss the Machine Learning aspect of the Pro5 as being the real game changer, not the 10% Upgraded CPU, which they basically describe as anemic.
They start with what their least impressed with, then move on to what their most impressed with. 1st-CPU 2nd-GPU 3rd PSSR's A.I Machine Learning.
Happy Gaming ✌!
EDIT': Sorry, I only glanced at your message, I NOW see that you already watched the DF Video...lol...my bad...I need to quit trying to speed read stuff...again my bad...lol.
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@MomsSpaghetti
Your absolutely right! The fact that Sony went ALL IN on A.I Machine Learning with the PSSR able to do a massive 300 TOPS, and with it being their own proprietary property that they control they can then continuously upgrade it on their own time to make it better without waiting for AMD to improve their FSR Upscaling or any other outside companies upscaling technology, they can now also unify the Developers into using their upscaling as the standard, so all games will look and play better without different Developers using different methods or standards of upscaling!
And as a Result everything will look and play phenomenally better and be more efficient when doing it, but not everybody knows about machine learning and what it can do, so that's why I think a lot of people don't understand how much of Game Changer this really is!
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@Professor_Niggle
I read the same thing, the leak said no "per title training", so I took it as the firmware in the PS5 PRO itself would be already programmed to recognize the older SDK's and implement the PSSR Machine Learning to ALL of the older titles, so again no Per Game Patching Requirements (aka "per title training").
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@Sakai
I watched the DF Video and they did critique the 10% increase in CPU Clock speed as being too little of an improvement, because with all things being equal, it wouldn't do much to improve Frame Rates, maybe 5 Frames a second at most, but that was with them focusing ONLY on the slightly upgraded CPU, if you move on to them talking about the PSSR Machine Learning that does a massive 300 TOPS then that changes things, because ALL things are NOT equal any more, because the PSSR on the PS5 PRO can take a 1080P resolution image an kick it up to a full 4K resolution in 2ms, so by starting out at a Lower Native 1080P Resolution it now gives the PS5 PRO a lot MORE resources for increasing that Frame Speed while still giving the Player a Flawlessly upgraded 4K image with the PSSR A.I managing the upgraded images, and does it all with only 250MB of memory use, and that's minimal considering they increased the overall useable memory of the available (and now upclocked) 16 GB's on the PS5 PRO by 1.2 GB's.
And DF was definitely most excited about the Machine Learning aspect for the PS5 PRO, they went from least impressive to most impressive feature in their discussion.
On a side note, I can't shake the feeling that Mark Cerny has more Specs or some kind of "Secret Sauce" that HASN'T been leaked yet, but we'll see, because the custom graphics chip seems to be overkill at 33.5 Teraflops, yet only gives a 45% increase in Graphical Rendering, and not only DF but others online are speculating that the Custom Chip appears to have some RDNA 4 aspects thrown in it with its 2x to 3x increase in Ray Tracing, so we'll have to wait and see. Happy Gaming✌!
Re: PS5 Pro's Rumoured Spectral Super Resolution Tech Could Be Transformative
The PSSR is what I'm most excited about, because at 300 TOPS it's going to be a Powerful Machine Learning solution that will help push lower resolutions to a higher fidelity 4K resolution and since it's starting out at lower a resolution it'll leave more head room for smoother higher frame rates, and as long as the A.I is implemented effectively, you shouldn't be able to tell if the Images started out at 1080P and look like fully Generated 4K images.
The weak point is Sony only giving the CPU a 10% increase, but the Graphics Chip appears to be a Custom solution that may use some aspects of AMD's RDNA 4 mixed in it, so it'll be interesting to see if this Monster Chip has something going for it besides the obvious 33.5 TeraFlop capability ( I'm looking at you Mark Cerny)...because we don't have ALL of the complete Specs.
But the 2x to 3x times Ray Tracing Capability is also exciting, and I'LL be interested in how they'll implement that effectively without it affecting the overall system too heavily, again I'm looking at you Mark Cerny!
But, for me I'm still pumped up about the release of the PS5 PRO!
Re: PS5 Pro's Rumoured Spectral Super Resolution Tech Could Be Transformative
@Neither_scene
I have to chime in here, because I'm personally going to buy the PS5 PRO just like I purchased the PS4 PRO when it came out, and I think ultimately it'll do great even in the current economic climate, do to the fact that when things get rough people tend to continue to spend money (that they probably shouldn't or don't have) on entertainment or gaming to ease and forget their financial pain, and that's in spite of everything else that may be going on with their finances, and without getting into depth on my personal finances (and No I don't have Johnny Got Rox Money), or how bad inflation and the overall economy is, I think its a personal choice and how people go about making that decision is also personal, like in my case, I'LL sell my PS5 to help mitigate some of the price that the PS5 Pro model will cost, I did the same thing with the PS4 to get the PS4 Pro, so if the PS5 PRO is under $700 U.S Dollars TOP's (Prefer $600...lol), it'll be a no brainer for me, but that's me.
But I Personally think Sony knows what their doing by releasing a Mid-Generation Refresh, especially considering that out of 117,600,000 PS4 Consoles Sold to date (according to STATISTA Feb. 2024) that 23,520,000(20%) of them were PS4 PRO's, and without having a Crystal Ball that tells me the Economic Future for the Next 4 Years and how well the PS5 Pro will do, it seems to be a safe bet that's going to be Profitable enough for Sony to do so, and I'm sure that's what their counting on, after all the Previous Track Record speaks for itself, and let's face its not the Vita or PSVR 2, it's attached to their Mainstream Gaming Climate, and their Crystal Ball is probably waaay better than mine is...Lol...Happy Gaming✌!
Re: PS5 Pro's Rumoured Spectral Super Resolution Tech Could Be Transformative
@MomsSpaghetti
Lol😂...that's so True...the mental gymnastics that goes on these forums is hilarious, I watch people comparing Apples to Watermelons, and losing sight that the only thing in common is that they're both fruit, so it becomes a race for the Olympic Gold in the Arena of Mental Gymnastics...again your right, it's hilarious😂!
Re: PS5 Pro's Rumoured Spectral Super Resolution Tech Could Be Transformative
@MikeOrator
I'm not particularly religious, but I felt compelled to respond to your comment with an "Amen Brother" and a Like❤!👍
Re: PS5 Pro's Rumoured Spectral Super Resolution Tech Could Be Transformative
@MomsSpaghetti
Yeah your right, and I don't understand all the Negativity, because if they hadn't added the PSSR "A.I" Machine Learning capability, I probably would have waited to purchase the Pro Model, but when they added PSSR A.I Machine Learning, along with a massive GPU Upgrade along with 2x to 3x the Ray Tracing Capability, that easily puts this Mid Generation upgrade well above what they did with the PS4 Pro vs. Base PS4, so again I don't understand all the hate?
Evidently all the Doom sayers aren't reflecting on comparing the past PS4 Pro upgrade to the Base Model, and then realizing that it DIDN'T hurt the original base model in any way when making games, let alone the fact that with A.I built into this Pro5 model, it makes it even easier on any impact "if any at all" on the Base PS5 Model because the PSSR aspect is Automatically implemented through A.I.
In fact I think it bodes well when pointing towards the Future Power of Sony's Next Gen PS6, especially with Microsoft Already bragging about their Proper Next Gen Console, by stating and telling the World it'll be the Most Powerful Console ever built, yet people on here are worried and acting like Sony is going to sit back on their laurels, and rely on the Power of PS5 Pro and NOT Push Heavily enough to Upgrade the PS6 as much...What?... because of the existence of the PS5 PRO....Again What?...I'm confused...where is this coming from, because ALL the History shows the opposite effect....Lol...I guess you have to let the haters hate...Lol✌
Re: PS5 Pro's Rumoured Spectral Super Resolution Tech Could Be Transformative
I think (IF) the leaked Specs and Info are accurate, buying the PS5 PRO seems like a no brainer, especially when the Leak says that the PSSR isn't tied to "Per title training", meaning Sony doesn't have to implement a patch per game to get the benefits out of it, my take from this Info is that it'll automatically apply stability to higher resolutions and higher frame rates through its built in A.I Machine Learning for ALL the titles that exists already, that already pays for the Price of Admission for me, let alone the 45% Speed increase in Graphical capabilities, along with 2x to 3x times the Ray Tracing capabilities, and 4 extra GT/s or 128 Gbs per second of Faster Ram, and a 10% Faster CPU, and only if you wanted to get the Maximum Benifits of the Pro 5 (you would then) require the patches or added coding for Past or Future titles in order to get the FULL Potential that the PRO has to offer!
I'LL be pulling my 2 Terabyte SSD from my PS5 to put in the Pro, and then sell my Base PS5 to mitigate the High price of the Pro and not look back!
Re: Reaction: Xbox Game Pass Is the Thorn in PS5's Side
@themightyant
😳- Whoa, slow your roll, I never implied that you were some kind of Xbox fanboy nor am I a Sony Fanboy?
Now evidently you somehow gleaned that from my nuanced point of view, seeing as most people think if you say anything negative about one side that you must be for the other, without having the capability of having a nuanced point of view about both sides.
In this case it just so happens to be my nuanced point of view about Microsoft and their direction they're taking Xbox with grooming us with Game Pass and then comparing it to them, when they tried to Ram X-Cloud down our throats last generation. The only difference NOW is instead tactically there trying to sweetly GROOM everyone with absurdly cheap subscriptions to Game Pass, and expecting everyone to believe that there's nothing to see or to worry about.
It's feels like that cliche about the Frog in boiling water, that there isn't any boiling water yet( being groomed), but yet later(in the future)there will be, but only after gradually adjusting(grooming) the Heat up slowly, then were all dead frogs in that Boiling Pot of water. Then it's too late.
Look, I don't care if it's Sony Microsoft, Google or whoever the corporate Lackey is, I'm not going to blindly take anybody's corporate word for what they think there vision is, when it's their actual job to further execute their Financial agenda in the smoothest possible way, but after taking into account Microsoft's horrendously aggressive anti-consumer screw up, at the very beginning of the last generation of Xbox console, I'm not buying a word they say.
All corporations have short-term and long-term profit agendas, which is completely normal, but I think Microsoft is still heading in this (eventual) All Streaming direction that evidently some people believe that they aren't , because of all the corporate speak- (AKA synergy) hence my comment about buying into Microsoft's synergy, and in my honest opinion, I think is very short-sighted. Just my opinion, nothing else.
And again, Instead of us being force-fed xcloud, and receiving such bad PR and backlash, yet now instead we're being slowly and smartly groomed into thinking everything is fine, just because this time there not trying to Ram it down my throat? But instead are giving me sweet sub pricing and little kisses and nibbles?
Just smacks of someone being suckered.
While I didn't buy an Xbox console until the Xbox One X came out last gen, because in my opinion they seemed to have changed their tune long before then about X-Cloud, but this Generation after seeing Game Pass pricing and all the hardcore grooming, there's no way I'm going back to the Xbox ecosystem. I sold the One X and my Pro right before the PS5 came out and got it day one. But just because I now only have a Sony Console, doesn't mean that if they screw up in some way that I won't blast them, because unlike other people I can have a nuanced point of view about many things, not just the "your side" against "my side" point of view, lol
😕-Do what you wanna do, say what you wanna say, but understand no one's putting you down. Happy Gaming 😁✌!
Re: Reaction: Xbox Game Pass Is the Thorn in PS5's Side
@themightyant
😶- I get that your feeling the corporate synergy from Phil Spencer, but just like any drug dealer pushing their product, I'm not going to trust, nor do I think anyone should take their word for(the dealer) about the price and quality and future of Gaming being this harmoniously equally shared ecosystem in The Gaming Community, with both models at play of Streaming and Physical Hardware, when obviously it's just the start and in its infancy of them pushing for a streaming future, and once firmly established, will be waaaay more profitable than digital or physical media combined, especially when comparing playing that media off of expensive hardware that they have to design and create and ship and then lose money off of.
😕-I don't know what people expect him to say, but I'm sorry he's not going to put on a black hat and twist his mustache, and forcast their true intentions, especially when it's STILL at the beginning of them(Microsoft) trying to further implement and establish their streaming service, when obviously there currently still is physical hardware to further overcome and counter and possibly slow their intentions of that streaming future, and what they really want that streaming future to be?
For them to State anything otherwise about Gamepass, would only be the second biggest mistake barring the start of last Generation of Xbox one with the power of Xcloud, when they had to do an about face, but I get it, their the good guys now and their intentions are pure, unlike last gen? Even though this is a obvious reach around maneuver, to compensate for the bad PR and backlash from last Gen, while accomplishing the same goal?
I personally don't buy it, nor do I think anyone else should, but it's your choice.
But personally I'd feel like a sucker if I did. To each his own.
Re: Reaction: Xbox Game Pass Is the Thorn in PS5's Side
😶-As far as "Gamepass being a Thorn in Sony's side", people thinking long term should realise it'll eventually end up being a Thorn in everyone's side.
Gaming and Games themselves have always been about the evolution of the technology of the HARDWARE that pushes the medium further into the future in the aspect of how the players experience the visuals of the game itself.
While everyone can agree that visually an awesome looking game doesn't mean a good game, people can agree that a great playing game that ALSO uses GREAT visuals will pull you into it that much deeper, I mean isn't that why we all get stoked for Next Gen consoles.
Well if we get sucked into streaming models of gaming like Gamepass, and allow Physical Hardware to become useless and extinct, what do you think gaming is going to look like?
Without developers being pushed to use the latest hardware anymore, how much further out do you see game's using better visuals than we already do wait for, when we switch to New next Gen hardware now?
I mean without that push for visual improvements from actual physical hardware, why would developers push any improvements visually when it would become more expensive than necessary to their bottom line.
Innovation would become more stagnant than it already is, and along with the data caps that we are already experiencing, will also limit the Developers reasons for getting ever increasing visual improvements in gaming through streaming without physical systems handling "All" of the games data throughput.
Because on the Server side of streaming it won't allow the 5 to 7 year turn arounds on MAJOR graphical and technological improvements that Console gaming does.
It will become a profiteering race to the bottom, with ever increasing subscription rates, along with visual quality stagnation, due to the lack of specific hardware requirements.
An ALL Streaming Future is the beginning of the end of gaming as we know it. All the people who buy into it now, like someone who gets a Free or Cheap sample of an addicting drug, then only to find out much later that they now have to pay through the nose, and aren't getting the quality stuff that they use to, it emphasizes how short-sighted it is.
While I try to personally only buy physical media, because I still believe that digital is the greedy gateway drug to the ever greedier games only streaming future, at least for now, digital still requires a physical piece of Graphical Hardware and is still preferable to a laggy, visually downgraded, data capped, and overly profiteering, streaming future that I see beginning with Microsoft!
Re: Reaction: Japan Studio's Disbandment Is Disappointing, But Not Surprising
@get2sammyb 😶-I think your more right about there being more variety than you know.
I say if if you use a template for a truly successful game and you use it for say a Trilogy like(HZD) and don't let the IP get stale or too stagnant, then it's MORE of what people are wanting and expecting, unlike UBISOFT using a (Template) for the same IP as well as multiple different IP's, which is a cookie cutter template approach like @Milt was referencing. So IMO it's a totally different situation in comparison. Again I think your right, and @Milt is a little off base with his comparison Imho...lol.
Re: Reaction: Japan Studio's Disbandment Is Disappointing, But Not Surprising
😄- Excellent article Sammy!👍
Putting nostalgia aside for past games that the Studio has made, the writing was on the wall and people tend to have a hard time with change, even despite the hardcore facts staring them in the face.
I too hope the talented people affected by this land on their feet, and that we'll see their talent in other future projects, even if it's with another studio!✌
Re: Days Gone PC Packs Ultra-Wide Monitor Support, Improved Visuals, More
😄-I Platinumed this game on the PS5, it was the FIRST game I downloaded from the PlayStation+ collection on PS5 after Platinuming Astro's Playroom.
I wanted to purchase it back when it released but I kept hearing that it had problems running smoothly even on the PS4 Pro, so I held off purchasing it and glad I did, because it ran smooth and beautifully at 4k 60fps on the PS5 in backwards compatibility mode, so I'm looking forward to a FULL on PS5 Version of Days Gone Part 2!
I don't understand why people Rag-On and complain about the game in any way, it's character's and story are solid enough and the actual gameplay is a blast to play!
I say bring on more SAWMILL HOARDS! (500+ Freakers) + PS5= Butter smooth 60fps gaming!
PC gamers will have a blast playing it!
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Consistent Crashing Issue Still Not Fixed on PS5, PS4 After Patch 1.05
@Jimmer-jammer No problem 😃👍!
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Consistent Crashing Issue Still Not Fixed on PS5, PS4 After Patch 1.05
"SEVERE SOFTWARE MEMORY LEAK ISSUE" 😶-From what I have read about, the game is crashing across ALL platforms, it seems like the Software has a "Severe Memory Leak" issue embedded in it, and it would explain the different amounts of play times people are getting before it crashes, and the reason some people's games aren't crashing at ALL, and it's because in their case the Ram isn't critically used up...(yet). "Memory Leak" issues can be difficult to track down and fix. Try to Google"Memory Leak Issues" for "Games" and check out the process that happens as a result of having it. It sounds dead on point to me.(IMO)
Edit: Here's a link to the "Steam Community" with people tracking the problem, and even people with cutting edge graphics cards and tons of RAM are experiencing framerate drops after playing for short and long play sessions with RAM getting chewed up, so after they save and reboot the game on PC, the FPS goes back up as well as the RAM, and then it cycles back down all over again the longer you play. Acting just like a "MEMORY LEAK". Your play style can determine how long you play. An example- "fast traveling" more often uses less RAM than "Driving around" inside the game. Also playing for short enough sessions won't crash it, because your not depleting the RAM down to the critical point of crashing it. So in that scenario you could end up with "0" crashes and tons of ("accumulated" play time.) The "MEMORY LEAK" in the Software is not allowing the game to PROPERLY dump ALL of the OLD outdated memory files in the RAM to allow for all NEW memory files to fill up the RAM, till it builds (and improperly stores it up) with too many old files, and starts to slow down the FPS and or just outright💥crashes, and it's ultimately because of the lack of enough space left over in the available RAM's memory pool for NEW data files to be input and output correctly because of the now DEPLETED SPACE inside the RAM from the OLD non-deleted files, so as a result it can't run the game properly!
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1091500/discussions/0/2988665684343723477/
Re: Sony Commits to Safer Gaming Environments Alongside Xbox and Nintendo
@oldschool1987 😶-I agree with you totally. Like Larry Flint said when he won with the U.S Supreme Court's decision.
If the Constitution protects a scumbag like me, then we're ALL protected. These other people are well intended, but they don't grasp the slippery slope there on, that's why the saying "The Road to Hell is Paved with good Intentions".
Like Larry Flint also said, if you don't like my magazines, don't buy or Condone it, it's YOUR CHOICE.
Tyranny isn't allowed to survive in a civilized Society that doesn't allow censorship, especially because of different people's feelings and interpretations of what is right and wrong.
Re: PlayStation Fans So Desperate for PS5 Stock They Brought Their Beds to GameStop
😶-My buddy is a GameStop store manager, and he had only 2 Bundled Standard disc PS5's and 4 XBOX's, 2 digital S and 2 series X consoles for Black Friday.
His store is in a Large Mall and security had a hard time keeping a hopeful future PS5 owning crowd of people from entering the Mall before it opened at 7am, so 2 of them bum rushed the security guards and got by them, and ran to my buddy's store and starting beating the sh*t outta the closed GLASS doors and asking him how many PS5's he had for sale right before the security guards caught up and chased after them again.
Needless to say they didn't get anything after pulling such a futile stunt, except for being ejected completely from the property of the Mall.
People are at a complete non-thinking frenzy when it comes to getting Sony's New next Gen Hardware.
Re: Sony Reduces Cyberpunk 2077's UK PS Store Price
😶- Bought the PS4 Disc version at Amazon for $49.94 U.S dollars to play on my PS5.
Besides digital prices stay stagnantly high for far too long before permanently dropping price, PS sale prices aren't competitive within the SAME timeframe as the Physical Disc versions of the game.
If MS and Sony weren't greedy and followed price reductions at the SAME speed as STEAM for digital then maybe, but they don't, so physical disc's for any consoles that I own.
Re: Soapbox: PS5 Is Pushing Me Ever Closer to All-Digital
😶-Nope pure physical copies for me, barring some add-ons, and digital only indie stuff, and if I really want to collect something I'll repurchase a GOTY Edition. In the future physical media and systems are going to be super collectable, because non-ownership of games will be an issue for everyone in the future, along with forced pricing(IMO). To each their own, happy gaming everyone😄👍!
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Will Let You Turn Off Nudity
@carlos82 😕-I was literally going to post something based on the subject of the header, and after reading all of your comments, I can't.
Because ALL of your comments are spot on, with my views as well...lol😂.
So all I can say is Ditto to the very well articulated comments you made...lol😂
Re: Poll: Have You Experienced PS5 Coil Whine?
@Yaycandy 😶-I totally agree!
It's amazingly silent and it stays pretty frosty considering after hours and hours of gameplay, with only slightly warm air pumping outta the back exhaust vent.(At least in my experience so far)
I'm ready for the games to really start pushing it.
Re: Poll: Have You Experienced PS5 Coil Whine?
😶-My PS5 is in the Horizontal position and is completely silent when playing games on it, the fan can only be heard after I was playing Days Gone at 4K at 60fps and there were a horde of Freakers (about 200 of them) on the screen and I jumped up and went over to the PS5 to see if I could actually hear the fan, and instead of it being completely silent, I could actually hear the fan with my head about 6 inches from the console and it was whisper quite instead of it normally being completely silent, I then checked the exhaust vent and after 4 hours of gameplay and the horde still frantically killing some bikers on the screen, the air coming out was only slightly warm and not even remotely close to hot. No complaints, I definitely would say that I got a solidly built first run PS5.
Re: PS5 Coil Whine Complaints Intensify as System Launches in Europe
😶-No coil whine on my Nov.12th launch PS5 Console.
I had to check to see if the fan was even running after putting my ear practically against the console and still couldn't hear it, so I put my hand at the back of the exhaust vent(Many Times) and felt a slightly warm breeze coming from it.
I think people are going to get slightly different results from their consoles, seeing as there coming off an assembly line, and these are first run products, so Quality Control is going to vary. That's why I ALWAYS buy Extended Warranties on first run products just in case, but after putting my PS5 through it's paces so far, I might have wasted that warranty money, because it seems mine is solidly built.
Re: Borderlands 3 Runs at Up to 120 Frames-Per-Second on PS5
@Flowright 😄-Sounds like we might have the same TV's, mine is a 2017 4K Sony XBR-X930E with Dolby Vision and native 120 Htz panel, when I bought it in 2017 it was like $3200 not including tax!
What's funny is Sony said they could easily add 1440p resolution to the PS5 if there's enough demand, but our Sony TV's actually already support 1440p as well as 1080p at 120fps and 4K at 60fps, so since clearly they've already made TV's that support the resolution why not have the PS5 support the resolution too.
Re: Borderlands 3 Runs at Up to 120 Frames-Per-Second on PS5
It's cool that it runs 120fps in 1080p on my PS5. My Sony 4K TV only has a 2.0b HDMI, but it's native screen is 120Htz and it has 1080p at 120fps compatibility all other resolutions including 4K run at 60fps because of the limitation of having an HDMI 2.0b connection.
Re: PS5 Download Speeds Are Definitely Faster Than PS4
@get2sammyb 😶-I thought that I read somewhere, that with the SSD in the PS5 that the downloads wouldn't have to go through the copying process before installing which would also make the overall download an install process quicker as well, unlike when downloading to the PS4 or Pro with an HDD?
😶-Is that part true as well, or not?
Re: PS5 Could Add 1440p Support if There Is Enough Demand
What's even funnier is that my Sony XBR930E 4K TV says it already supports 1440p resolution...lmao🤣
Re: Devil May Cry 5 Special Edition Has Multiple Performance Modes on PS5, Including 4K at 60FPS
😶- I think once the systems and devs get better game engines to work with, and more middleware becomes available, as well as the compression tech getting tightened and refined further in this new gen, we'll see better resolutions with higher frame rate increases with ray tracing turned on.(Full 4k-60fps-RT)
But if not... there's always a possibility of a PS5 Pro or Xbox-(insert name) in 3 or 4 years being able to hit those higher marks consistently...lol.
Re: Rumour: Share Factory Studio Coming to PS5
😕- My guess is that it's going to be pre-installed and built into the PS5 and linked as part of the function of the "Create Button" itself with maybe some other added functionality not yet mentioned, just a guess on my part, because why not leave it as the "Share Button" instead of renaming it the Create Button in the first place.
But who knows with Sony? It could have something totally different...😕?
Re: PS5's Fan Will Be Adjusted with Firmware Updates
@zekepliskin 😕-Ok let me get this straight, I'm minding my own business and all of a sudden I have you correcting me like a little child would be corrected, and I should eat your out of nowhere Sh*t attitude for telling me how I should write in forums and not be a little miffed about it, and then you want to say that I over reacted and I'm booty hurt...Lmao. Your a funny little man.😂🤣
😂-I don't know where your from but if you tried that Sh*t in a face to face situation, there would be more than just words exchanged, your a flaming coward and Pu**y for even starting this Sh*t first in a forum in the first place. Bye,Bye🐱 keep trolling!
Re: PS5's Fan Will Be Adjusted with Firmware Updates
@graysoncharles 😕-I'm confused? I didn't imply that you made that article? "I did imply that you posted it(the link), and Then asked why". Because it had "No Direct bearing" on this forum posting (by Sammy) of the Firmware updates on the Fan Speed on a game by game basis?
The only thing someone can glean from your linked article, is conjecture based on "actual or possible heat issues" at any given time with the PS5, NOT that they(Sony) were implementing (these specific) firmware updates to the fan to eliminate any heat issues in your article. Again we could assume(make a guess) that, but they didn't actually mention a thing about the Firmware update on the fans and because of that, be the source for Sammy's article. I mean I can't speak for him, but maybe you can, but that article has no direct bearing on this discussion other than talking(Implying) about heat issues on the PS5.✌
Edited:(the link)
Re: PS5's Fan Will Be Adjusted with Firmware Updates
@graysoncharles 😕-That link doesn't actually mention that the firmware updates to the fan speed are because of the subject of heat issues in this actual article?
You posting that is an assumption (Not a DIRECT IMPLICATION) that (Sony) is doing firmware fan adjustments for that reason in that article, so why post it? Why? Because of it referencing heat issues and then associating the two together as the reason for it?😕 That doesn't mean that's why their(Sony) is doing this Specific fan adjustment via firmware update, it could be that it's an "Extra Measure" to making it cooler AFTER Already Fully addressing the cooling issues in the first place, we don't know? But that article doesn't shine a light on it either way? The Only true way without debating it, is when we(gaming community) all get our hands on Both of the Next Gen systems.✌
Re: PS5's Fan Will Be Adjusted with Firmware Updates
@get2sammyb 😕-I wonder(assume) that it's based off the recommended Average operating temperature parameters(in lab temperature Ranges), that ALL electronic devices recommend, and THEN what the temperature is running on a game by game basis?
I only mention this because data collection with "Outside real world temps"(customer based averages) running those games could vary wildly if not within that (Recommended) range, (Not knowing what the Range will be) but example I keep my house at 66°F ambient room temperature in the summer, my 2 other friends keep their temps at different ranges like one's 72°F on average and the more bill conscious friend at 80°F average, would produce different results on the same game by game basis.
So I would venture to guess it would be the former(Lab based recommended Op Temps) then testing different games within that Full range of Temps (Probably and safely going with the HIGHEST end of the recommended Range, then making the adjustment for the fan.)
EDITED: adjustment for the fan...lol.
Re: Bethesda Games Are Looking Increasingly Unlikely on PS5
@God_of_Nowt 😃-While I appreciate your "more neutral" opinion on this subject and wish for it to be true, I'm truly worried it's not. Seeing with the past year and these (Recent)purchases from MS as well as the deals being made, the harder core mantra being pushed more aggressively (than ever before) have started to paint a picture that's contrary to the (business as usual model).
😶- I'm starting to wonder if we're "fooling ourselves" into that " Boiling frog conundrum".
"Put the Frog into boiling water it'll immediately jump out.(Like MS making it obvious Xbox one gen, an apologized)
Put the same Frog into water and SLOWLY(MS reach around tactics this new gen) turn the heat up gradually and the Frog will stay in the Pot until it boils to death"
I again, HOPE your right, but I really think that we(gaming community) are going to wake up to late to realize that we're boiled(F'd). "And collectively We'll All be at blame for it."
😄-(I'm an Optimistically Pessimistic person, the glass is ALWAYS half full, but I still want to know where the other f'n half went) I call it Positive
critical thinking! ....lol😄✌
Re: Bethesda Games Are Looking Increasingly Unlikely on PS5
@God_of_Nowt 😄- This is the (basic conclusion) of that previous conversation that I had on the subject. -"The 2nd Analyst doesn't see how it could happen any sooner without it severely downgrading the gaming quality, along with the gaming communities experience that they expect with (FUTURE)Next Gen games.
(That is our future, but WE keep buying into "That Future is Close" mantra, when that's ALL of the gaming companies holy grail for Profitability, that also includes Sony as well, but MS are in the best position inside the market to push that downgraded but high profitability streaming future on (the gaming community) way faster than it should, and unfortunately that's what MS is doing right now, and people are repeating that mantra and other people are gobbling it up as fact and in doing so, helping (MS) Groom us and allow themselves(MS) to quickly enact that future too quickly, like they tried to do with Xbox one! We( the Gaming Community) should be the Ones who steer the ship, because if we don't, Well?... We ALL think people are whining now, I can't even Imagine it, especially if this is enacted to Fast."
EDITED: We need to Fear that Massive wallet that MS has "all to often" been whipping out in preparation of this new generation, their not taking losses for "No Reason" the pay off is staring "all of us" in the face, there just being sneakier this time, so we don't notice the NEAR(to happen too soon) long term goal.
Re: Bethesda Games Are Looking Increasingly Unlikely on PS5
@God_of_Nowt 😶- By the way I copied this from a previous conversation I had on another topic, just to show where I'm coming from- 👉 "I want you to think about the logic in this online discussion between 2 Analysts being asked the same question and glean what you can as far as what's more likely true and not true, but actually (Groomed Marketing).
I was reading an online article and they asked both analysts if they thought this New Generation was going to be the last gen for Physical Hardware? (Paraphrasing)- the first Analyst Response: Yes it'll be the last gen for physical hardware, because the future is going to be All about easy access, go anywhere and play on Anything gaming, through those services, and it'll be faster more accessible and cheaper for people to do so.
The 2nd Analyst Responded: While moving to soon to that model would definitely be a boon in profitability for the providers of the streaming services, without having any physical Next Gen console of any sort to deliver it. No I think there will be at least 2 MORE generations beyond this one before that should happen, for the simple fact that gamers expect improvements each and every generation and with full 4k gaming this gen and with the possibility of full 8k gaming with the following gen coupled with all the bandwidth and server load that those future demanding specs would require of internet & servers it wouldn't be possible. Because gaming strictly on servers wouldn't be capable of handling the bandwidth load without sacrificing something along the way, and even with factoring in costly NEAR foreseeable server technologies, it wouldn't be possible to deliver that experience that gamers typically require with each and every New Generation without a physical console. He goes on to say: When looking at having a Streaming only future we have to take into account that massively increased bandwidth coupled with current restrictive internet Data caps, and the current internet instability issues that people have locally and around the world, as well as all those other underdeveloped markets without internet that would be untapped without Physical Next Gen hardware.
Re: Bethesda Games Are Looking Increasingly Unlikely on PS5
@God_of_Nowt 😶-I feel pride in one's product, can be self serving in its own right, and I believe that the Japanese culture reflects that in many ways, and in turn (that way) serves both themselves and the customers because of it, all the while being a company seeking profit.
😶-On the other hand MS has gotten scorched-earth fed to them for NOT listening to Gamers for the business model they tried to go with at the beginning of this gen, and not only apologized for doing it, but reversed course. 😳But yet now thet(MS) are pulling a (reach around) tactic to achieve the exact same thing they tried at the beginning of this gen by using their wallet to shape that vision(by their purchases,deals,services) instead of letting it happen organically through the gaming community. Their grooming us this time to make that future happen faster than it should, because it more profitable than letting it happen with natural consumer demand steering it, and we'll(gaming community) will ultimately suffer for it in the Long Term. I personally find them "to cut throat and disingenuous" of a more typical company for me.