They should just swallow the bitter pill and pay whatever it costs to acquire Square Enix, it makes sense and would serve them well in the end, if they don't, they might loose Square Enix to Microsoft and then there probably won't be any more Final Fantasy on Playstation and that would be a huge loss.
Since Microsoft is playing that kind of game, Sony has to play the same game to stay competitive. It's a shame that it has come down to: "who can spend the most money".
Back in the day, it was more about marketing and hardware.
Now it's about subscription services and who can acquire the best studios. Hardware and marketing wise it's very similar.
@Mythologue Final Fantasy games used to do side quests right, they were often lengthy quest chains that starter in a humble way but often rewarded you with some of the best items and equipments in the game.
@awaltzforvenus Oh you say that but to that I ask you this..
Do you only ever get far in Final Fantasy games?
They made a good game, great even.
But is it really a game befitting of the Final Fantasy title?
For me it's in instant "no". Sure there's Summons, crystals, chocobo's and moogles.
But the real Final Fantasy gameplay is not there, also the feel is not there.
If I imagined a darker take on Final Fantasy, then I imagine something similar to Majoras Mask compared to Ocarina of time. Darker but still full of charm.
This does not have that special Final Fantasy "spice".
Even Final Fantasy XIV (also a good game) was better at delivering that and it didn't really deliver the good for me either
Much as I expected, This is a huge departure from the Final Fantasy tradition.
Almost all RPG elements are removed to the point where it feels more like a pure action game than even an action RPG.
This is a shame as it goes against the origins of the franchise. Square used to make action games and that was because they played it safe. Hironobu Sakaguchi however wanted to make an RPG after seeing western RPG's and the success of Dragon Quest. However he was denied over and over again, until Square management finally gave in as a result of poor sales. It was his dream project to make a Fantasy style RPG.
Final Fantasy took a lot of inspiration from D&D (Almost to the point where you could call it a ripoff)
It's a shame then that Square Enix forgot the identity of this beloved franchise.
It was not until Final Fantasy II where they introduced Chocobos, And Moogles were first introduced in Final Fantasy III.
There was not summons in the first game. Sure you had a story about Crystals, I guess that's the only thing you have left from the original. But what about the gameplay?
And please don't get me wrong, I do recognise that Final Fantasy XVI is a good game, impressive even.
But it's not the game I will play when I get the urge to play a Final Fantasy game, it does not tickle that particular itch.
I had a feeling this was going to be the case, but yeah now I confirmed it for myself.
I truly hope Dragon Quest XII won't meet the same fate and also become an action game.
And it's not that I don't enjoy action games, but sometimes I feel like playing a good RPG game. Would be nice to know that there's still some big franchises delivering the goods. And not be limited to lower budget titles only.
@tallythwack No I don't contradict myself. I never said that Final Fantasy didn't have good graphics.
You misunderstood what I said about Final Fantasy VII. It's not very technically impressive. But it still looked good thanks to the art direction. Just look up that other games released in 1997 for the playstation. Crash Bandicoot 2 for example or Gran Turismo. Full on 3D games that pushed what the playstation was capable of at the time. And it sort of always been like this. Just l compare Final Fantasy XIII with The Last of Us on the PS3 for example.
Yes Final Fantasy XIII looks very nice, but it's not that impressive compared to some other games on the system.
Final Fantasy VII looked good thanks to nice looking pre-rendered backgrounds and good art direction.
Final Fantasy VI had great graphics for being on the SNES, but that was also more of an artistic thing rather than technical.
However I am not saying that it's not one of the better looking games on the system.
But then again, you have games like Starfox and Donkey Kong Country for example.
They always made games that looked nice, but mostly from an artistic perspective rather than a technical one.
About the Metallica reference, again you fail to understand my point of view. I don't say that you need to have heard all their albums to call yourself a Metallica fan. Heck you can even dislike some albums but still call yourself a fan. (I'm not a big fan of Final Fantasy II) But if you don't like the genre of music that they are most known for or only listen to the song Nothing Else Matters then I don't think you should call yourself a fan. To be a fan I would say that you should understand what sort of music they play and enjoy listening to it, you don't need to love every album, but you should probably enjoy listening to Thrash metal.
You're right, I am not a true fan of the franchise anymore. Despite playing and beating all games to date (Except XI and XV, played both but never stuck with them to the end, I also never bothered with all the mobile games). I played all the Final Fantasy games in their original forms and also their remakes and remasters. Many of these games I have beaten so many times that I lost count.
Unfortunately the franchise lost its magic with Final Fantasy XII and have never quite recovered it.
And now they have also changed the genre. I am not saying that XV was a bad game or that XVI is not going to be a great game.
But to me it has lost the Final Fantasy magic, and the change to action RPG only makes it less Final Fantasy.
I am a fan of what Final Fantasy used to be and what Square used to be before they became this big corporate money sucking machine.
@tallythwack Not as many perhaps, but plenty enough.
Most Final Fantasy games have sold well. And games such as Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default sold decently right.
I never said it needs to go LOW budget. It doesn't always have to be one extreme or another, There's an "in-between" as well..
But the way they have been focusing on like the best graphics in the last 20 years har been a huge time-sink, and time is money.
The graphics needs to be good sure, but does it have to be THAT good?
Final Fantasy graphics has always been nice, But it has mostly come down to artistic reasons rather than technical.
And back in the day they were able to release a new game every other year. I understand that dev time is longer today and that's ok.
But just look at Final Fantasy XV what an expensive mess that was.
There's been rumours of a FFIX remake, You don't think it would sell well if it retained it's original combat system?
Just look at DragonQuest XI and Pokemon Scarlet And Violet they sold well.
People even called DragonQuest XI the best DQ game ever and the graphics was not bad. But also not really industry leading.
Final Fantasy VII for example was not so beloved due to it's technically advanced graphics.
But it did a good job painting a picture and setting a mood with its pre-rendered backgrounds paired with Uematsu's iconic music.
@tallythwack they don't need to make Final Fantasy mainstream to make tons of money. And they don't need to pour so much money into developing a single game to make it good.
@themightyant I think we have a different opinion on that a turn based system is. For me it's "turn based" if you have to wait for your turn, before you can make a move. It can be done in many different ways. And Square has experimented with many different turn based system for Final Fantasy.
ATB is one way. Cooldowns are a different way. Static turn based like chess or Final Fantasy X is not the only way to make a turn based game. Final Fantasy tactics was also turn-based.
Now if you push a button for an immediate attack that's not turn based.
I argue that Final Fantasy 11 and 14 do not belong in the mainline franchise because they are MMO's. Much like how Blizzard didn't name WoW "Warcraft 4". At least they had the brain to figure out that hey this is a different type of game based of the Warcraft franchise.
But it's typical of SquareEnix to make these weird decisions that don't make sense, they could have called them Final Fantasy Online or World of Final Fantasy or something else.
"But it would all still be Metal" - Correct, but it would be a different subgenre, And anyone who listens to metal know that there's subgenres that are vastly different from one another and there might be some subgenres that you don't even like.
This can be directly translated into video game subgenres as well. Like imagine if a new Ridge Racer game was announced, The fans would go crazy over it, and then it turns out that they turned the arcade racer into a racing simulator. Of course the fans would be disappointed.
Imagine you go and order a pizza and they give you a flippin hamburger and the when you complain the chef says "Well it's all just bread and meat anyway!" hahah
@awaltzforvenus XI, XII, Lightning Returns and XIV was not purely action based, none of them were.
Maybe it was classified as such by some, but you still have cooldowns ATB meters and such making sure that you have to wait your turn.
There's not the attack button and roll/dodge button which seems to be the new direction.
@themightyant Final fantasy XII just gave the illusion of real-time because you were able to move your characters during the battle. but you still had to wait for your turn before you had attack and use spells and stuff.
And like you said it had the gambit system that worked in a similar manner to how "auto-battle" works in DragonQuest. Only with Final Fantasy XII being even more tactical and customisable.
But it was still turn based as your party members had their cooldown before they could do anything.
It's very different from Final Fantasy XV which barely have any cooldowns and most of the time you just attack, dodge and parry attacks.
"It’s spent as long not being turn based as turn based. "
I don't think the time matters much..
How many mainline Final Fantasy games have been released that are action based in that time?
Well that would be Final Fantasy XV and Final Fantasy VII Remake (If you even should count that one as a mainline entry), Final Fantasy XVI being released next week.
So that makes what? 3 games... so far.. Against like 15 turn-based titles. Oh and yeah I do not count Final Fantasy XI and XIV as these should never have been main line anyway, even if they could be regarded as turn based to some extent and would even strengthen my point.
"Pre-FF7 characters features were exaggerated due to turning these into small pixel sprites and it was common for the heads, hair and weapons (when shown) to be disproportionately larger than they should be. e.g. FF1-6 often the head and hair is about two-thirds the size of the rest of the body and when swords appeared on screen for them to be as tall as the character."
yeah it's called chibi. It was done that way mostly for practical reasons, how many 8-16-bit rpg games have you played when character sprites have realistic proportions?
You can see in the FMV sequences and the Amano artwork what the characters were actually supposed to look like.
"It hasn’t changed genre. It’s still an RPG."
It's now what is referred to as an ARPG, yes it's a thing, there's even a wikipedia page if you look up Action RPG.
Final Fantasy did not use to be an action RPG franchise.
It's very similar to is Metallica would stop making thrash metal and all their new album would be power metal albums. Their iconic sound would be lost and fans would be upset about that for sure, and rightly so.
Now please realise that for every argument you throw at me I will have a counter argument because I have ADHD and Final Fantasy has been my entire life, I know my stuff about this franchise.
@awaltzforvenus yeah, how many Final Fantasy games have they released in those 20 years that are not turn based? two I guess with a 3rd one being released next week.
How many games have been turn-based jpgs? 15 I think...
So they released 15 turn based jpgs (Excluding XI and XIV since they are online), Building a solid fanbase.
Then they just went and completely changed the genre. Is it strange that fans take offence? I don't think so.
The move to action "rpg" is clearly a move to appeal more to the mainstream. That a good thing if you don't care about your fans and just want to make more money. Sure it's the sole purpose of a company to make money.
However I don't think they should treat that franchise with such disrespect, Final Fantasy 1 literally saved Square from bankruptcy.
Anyone who defend such a move (that disrespect the games roots, DNA, and the fanbase) is clearly guided selfish gain.
Similar to defending child labour because it means that you might be able to buy something for a lower price.
Only in this case, YOU enjoy action games more so from your perspective it's good because you have more games that appeal to you. And you don't care if an entire fanbase was betrayed, as long as you get your action game.
As if you didn't have plenty of action games already? Great jRPG that doesn't feel like a cringe worthy anime (Like the Tales games for example) are few and far between.
@themightyant "A sweeping story with a wide range of engaging characters in a fantasy setting? A story based around crystals and eikons/eidolons/espers etc that is really just a thinly veiled commentary on the state of aspects in our world? Equipment and skill trees? Big swords, big hair and epic music? The FF prelude theme or victory music? Elemental based magic? Chocobos, Moogles and Cid? A wide world to explore? Giant budget for the genre? A game that pushes boundaries and tries to push the genre forward? I could go on…"
I disagree.
That is what Final Fantasy seemingly has become in the later years, but that is not what the franchise was known for in the golden era of the franchise. Some of it yes, but not all.
Final Fantasy VII introduced big hair and big swords.
All games up until 13 (Excluding 11) has been turn based jpgs, That's most of the franchise.
Most game studios don't change the genre of the mainline games in a franchise. World of Warcraft is not called Warcraft 4 and the Mario&Luigi games are not classed as mainline Mario games.
SquareEnix has messed this up, most people knows it.
Had they not made this game into a numbered entry (Same really with XI, XIV and XV), then no-one would have complained.
Because they are all great games.
But they do not belong in the numbered mainline.
Final Fantasy XIII belongs in the mainline though (Because it's still a turn based jRPG), even if it is one of the worst.
Most companies have the decency and brains not to change the genre of a franchise.
And if they do, then it'll be like a spin-off or like a spin-off series.
And this used to be the case with SquareSoft as well, just thinking about the Mana, Saga, Final Fantasy Tactics and Kingdom Hearts series.
They all started as Final Fantasy off-shoots/spin-off titles that eventually got their own identities.
But after the Square+Enix merge, then they lost their sense and have ever since made a countless of strange decisions.
@KaijuKaiser You're missing the point..
It's not about "gate-keeping". It feel like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
You think you can say that you're a fan of Indian cuisine after only trying a Butter Chicken?
You can say that you're a fan of butter chicken.
But that alone is a poor representation of Indian cuisine as a whole.
I think of it the same way with a video game franchise, just playing one game, and especially a game that many agree on is like a black sheep of the franchise is not going to give you a very good understanding of what the franchise is all about.
And then I don't think you can really call yourself a fan of the franchise.
If you only played Final Fantasy XIV then you can be a Final Fantasy XIV fan, you would probably also enjoy Final Fantasy XI. But you're not really a Final Fantasy franchise fan.
Just as playing World of Warcraft doesn't make you a Warcraft fan without even trying the actual Warcraft games
If there is one Final Fantasy game that best represents what Final Fantasy is about then it would be Final Fantasy IX.
It was made as a celebration of the entire franchise as a whole and succeeds in that. It's also one of the most beloved by the fans.
So I would recommend anyone who want to know what Final Fantasy is.
@tallythwack No you don't need to, but playing the black sheep of the franchise and calling yourself a fan of the entire franchise is maybe not the smartest
@Lmaooo 100%, But you can absolutely become a new fan of the Franchise, My first Final Fantasy was FFVII back in the 90s I loved it so much that I had to get hold of all the games that came before it, after playing 1-7 I new I could call myself a fan of the franchise, and I have played every Final Fantasy game since, except some spin-off titles and Final Fantasy 11.
but that year when I played Final Fantasy 1-7 I considered myself a new fan of the franchise. Now I am an old bitter fan of the franchise hahaha
None of those are game related necessarily. So could be any media, any genre, could be a book, a tv show, a movie.
Again I am not saying that Final Fantasy XVI is gonna be a bad game, from what I played so far in the demo it's great.
But it doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy game to me.
And when they show summons and chocobo's it almost as if they are trying to convince me that it is.
You play a bit and be like "This feels sort of like The Witcher 3" then the game goes "No look here you have a chocobo, IT IS FINAL FANTASY!", and I'll be like "yeah nice try.."
@KaijuKaiser So maybe Final Fantasy 17 will be a high budget movie then.. as long as it has "Crystals, summons , dragoons, world building, iconic enemies, epic music, Cid, etc"
@KaijuKaiser So with your logic it would be completely fine to make final fantasy mainline any genre as long as it has "Crystals, summons , dragoons, world building, iconic enemies, epic music, Cid, etc"
perhaps a final fantasy first person western RPG like the elder scroll? Or even better a real time strategy? Or a Doom like shooter with Firaga flamethrowers and blizzaga machine guns?
Hey I am not saying they can't do stuff like that but better to do that as spine-off games, like they used to with Final Fantasy tactics, Final Fantasy VII - crisis core, final fantasy VII - Dirge of Cerberus, Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles just to name a few
@KaijuKaiser What roots is it that it didn't forget? The Chocobos and Moogles? Because they sure forgot all the gameplay that made Final Fantasy great.
@KaijuKaiser It's weird that Final Fantasy 11 and 14 are named as if they were Main line titles though. To me it would make more sense if they were named Final Fantasy Online or World of Final Fantasy, but they decided to name another spin-off that...
All Final Fantasy mainline games up until Final Fantasy 10 has been turn based jRPG's. Their highest rated games belongs to this group. And generally most fan agrees that they have been going downhill since 10. (Even if many still praise Final Fantasy XII)
@NEStalgia To me, Final Fantasy is and will forever be turn based jRPG with seriously good stories and interesting worlds to explore, accompanied by great music and art direction.
Sure you can expect chocobos, moogles and other Final Fantasy creatures to appear but ultimately it's was always the turn based combat and story telling that did it for me.
Square used to experiment a bit within the borders of the genre, but it always felt familiar starting a new Final Fantasy game.
Things started going south with Final Fantasy XIII.
And Final Fantasy XV was originally supposed to be a spin-off game called Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Renaming it XV and taking the entire franchise in that direction will make them money as they will appeal more to mainstream gamers, but they are abandoning their loyal fanbase. It's a shame.
Final Fantasy is dead for me, Final Fantasy XVI is nothing more than a Final Fantasy spin-off in my eyes.
Maybe one day SquareEnix will cast a phoenix down on the franchise and do a FFIX again. "A game that returns to the roots"
Congratulations SquareEnix you successfully converted the Final Fantasy franchise to a mainstream action game.
All the comments like "I never liked Final Fantasy before but I really liked this demo" prove it.
I played the demo as well, and yeah it seems like a damn good Final Fantasy "spin-off" game. It got arrangements of classic Final Fantasy tunes including the prelude theme, it got Moogles and Chocobos and it got summons. But it doesn't have the gameplay.
I never really loved the action RPG direction of Final Fantasy XV and VII Remake, but this game is even less RPG and more action from what I can tell.
It's not that I don't like action games, but there's plenty of action games out there. But there's not that many great turn based jRPG franchises anymore, I sure hope they won't mess up the Dragon Quest franchise as well.
This looks like a very high budget Final Fantasy spin-off Just like Final Fantasy XV.
From what I've seen so far this is an even bigger departure from the traditional Final Fantasy gameplay than Final Fantasy XV in that now you no longer have any party, you run around alone.
Hey I am not saying this won't be a good or even great game, but is it really a Final Fantasy mainline game just because you put a number in the title?
I never met a fan of the Final Fantasy franchise who complained about turn based battles.
Going from turn based RPG to action RPG (Is it even an RPG still?) is like turning chess into bowling.
Hey bowling is fun.. But if I buy a chess game I expect tactical turn based gameplay, not winning by throwing my chess pieces at my opponents.
I really wish Square Enix would understand this. Creating more traditional Final Fantasy titles would not mean that they could not also create action based spin off titles or new IP's that are pure action games.
And hey, They already have Kingdom Hearts which is really successful.
I would say that it really depends on the games being released for it from here on out.
Many reviewers have pointed out that the tech is very good and the comfort is great but that the headset expensive and has a weak launch line-up of games. And as a PSVR2 owner I would have to agree with that.
It's really very similar criticism that we saw with the 3DS when it was first launched.
But in the case of the 3DS, Nintendo were able to turn it around with more games and a decent price drop.
I don't think it will be as easy for the PSVR2 due to the fact that it's VR, It's just not as popular as traditional gaming.
But we'll see, I doubt Sony will just sit on their asses and do nothing while sales are continuing to decline.
@Fight_Teza_Fight Again? FFVI has been remade twice already. haha oh, but perhaps you want them to remake VI in 3D? Oh god, they would totally screw that one up big time.
I imagine them turning the battles into Tekken Tag tournament and removing the Esper growth system to make it more "accessible" for non-rpg gamers
They probably change the story so that the world of ruin is prevented and explain the the story of the original FFVI is a conveniently different timeline.
That would be very Square Enix. They have totally lost their touch when it comes to Final Fantasy. Yes Final Fantasy XVI looks good, and so did Final Fantasy XV as XIII, people were excited for these games as well. But it turned out to be mostly disappointment.
The management needs the franchise to grow, so they are butchering it's identity in order for it to appeal more to the mainstream. It's quite sad to see
my biggest enemy so far har been chromatic aberration. I know how I should adjust the vertical tilt to fix it, but the headset just don't want to stay in position. I wish Sony would have implemented a way to dial this in like how you can adjust the spacing between the lenses.
I get to a point where it's almost fixed and in game it really doesn't look bad at all, it's definitely the worst on white text in the PS5 menus (it sort of look like the top half of a letter is red and the lower half is blue or vice versa). but maybe I am too sensitive to these things..
Why is it so terribly difficult for Square Enix to deliver what the fans want? I mean look at Nintendo, they manage to do it over and over.
A game like Final Fantasy VII didn't "Need" any change to the story for people to play it and stay interested, it also didn't "need" the change in game genre...
All the fans ever expect from a remake is
A) better graphics
B) QOL changes
No one, I repeat NO ONE! Will expect a remake to change the story or genre of the game.
Even Square Enix have to understand that fans have not been pestering them for decades about a FFVII remake because they want a new story..
I think most people was happy with the story until they started changing it too much towards the end.
Like you can add to the story to make it richer and stuff, like giving Jessie some more backstory for example, that's not the same as changing the story, you're just adding to it.
They should have focused on just adding to the story instead of changing it.
Sure I would be interested in an external disc drive for my PS5 digital edition.
extra plus if it can be used as a bluray player on PC and Mac as well.
It's not like I NEED it, but having the option to pop in a disc is nice. It's also nice to not have it built into the console.
The laser heads was always the first thing to die in my Playstation consoles.
having that weak link externally connected put me at ease a bit, since it's easily replaced.
I hope to see a future where 60fps is the lowest option. For me framerate is more important than graphics and 30fps is something I wish for to go away for good.
Options is always nice, but remove the bad options. no-one want their game to be a pretty "slideshow". the option should be between 60fps (fidelity mode) vs 120fps (performance mode)
I can only accept 30fps in like a photo mode or something like that.
weird question, that depends entirely on the game.
Some games are completely fine being just a few hours long while others can be almost never ending. MMORpgs are usually very long, but that works for these games because they are social and you interact with other people. Also there is so much to do in these types of games.
Then you have games like 1st person singel player games that usually are possible to complete in one long session (If you are good and have the patience). these games usually are built to be replayed on multiple difficulties as well as finding secrets.
It all comes down to the type of game.
But then comes the question on pricing, do I think a game that you can finish in 1-2 hours and has little to no replay value should ever be sold for the same price as games that give you +30 hours of gameplay and has replay value? No not really. Unless it's doing something very special that makes it worth it.
Pricing needs to be set based on the amount of enjoyment you are getting out of the game.
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Re: Twitter Wants to Dramatically Improve PS5, PS4's Integration
@Cycologist you only read the title?
Re: PlayStation Allegedly Under Pressure to Make Major Gaming Acquisitions
They should just swallow the bitter pill and pay whatever it costs to acquire Square Enix, it makes sense and would serve them well in the end, if they don't, they might loose Square Enix to Microsoft and then there probably won't be any more Final Fantasy on Playstation and that would be a huge loss.
Since Microsoft is playing that kind of game, Sony has to play the same game to stay competitive. It's a shame that it has come down to: "who can spend the most money".
Back in the day, it was more about marketing and hardware.
Now it's about subscription services and who can acquire the best studios. Hardware and marketing wise it's very similar.
Re: Poll: Are You Playing Final Fantasy 16?
@Mythologue Final Fantasy games used to do side quests right, they were often lengthy quest chains that starter in a humble way but often rewarded you with some of the best items and equipments in the game.
Re: Poll: Are You Playing Final Fantasy 16?
@awaltzforvenus Oh you say that but to that I ask you this..
Do you only ever get far in Final Fantasy games?
They made a good game, great even.
But is it really a game befitting of the Final Fantasy title?
For me it's in instant "no". Sure there's Summons, crystals, chocobo's and moogles.
But the real Final Fantasy gameplay is not there, also the feel is not there.
If I imagined a darker take on Final Fantasy, then I imagine something similar to Majoras Mask compared to Ocarina of time. Darker but still full of charm.
This does not have that special Final Fantasy "spice".
Even Final Fantasy XIV (also a good game) was better at delivering that and it didn't really deliver the good for me either
Re: Poll: Are You Playing Final Fantasy 16?
Much as I expected, This is a huge departure from the Final Fantasy tradition.
Almost all RPG elements are removed to the point where it feels more like a pure action game than even an action RPG.
This is a shame as it goes against the origins of the franchise.
Square used to make action games and that was because they played it safe. Hironobu Sakaguchi however wanted to make an RPG after seeing western RPG's and the success of Dragon Quest. However he was denied over and over again, until Square management finally gave in as a result of poor sales.
It was his dream project to make a Fantasy style RPG.
Final Fantasy took a lot of inspiration from D&D (Almost to the point where you could call it a ripoff)
It's a shame then that Square Enix forgot the identity of this beloved franchise.
It was not until Final Fantasy II where they introduced Chocobos, And Moogles were first introduced in Final Fantasy III.
There was not summons in the first game.
Sure you had a story about Crystals, I guess that's the only thing you have left from the original. But what about the gameplay?
And please don't get me wrong, I do recognise that Final Fantasy XVI is a good game, impressive even.
But it's not the game I will play when I get the urge to play a Final Fantasy game, it does not tickle that particular itch.
I had a feeling this was going to be the case, but yeah now I confirmed it for myself.
I truly hope Dragon Quest XII won't meet the same fate and also become an action game.
And it's not that I don't enjoy action games, but sometimes I feel like playing a good RPG game. Would be nice to know that there's still some big franchises delivering the goods.
And not be limited to lower budget titles only.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Painterly Japanese Commercial Is Epic
@awp69 The Pope does not have copyright on art-styles as far as I am aware. Nothing sacrilegious about this.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Painterly Japanese Commercial Is Epic
I am starting to associate this game with two things:
Choir and gore
I hope the choir is not going to be overused in the game.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@tallythwack No I don't contradict myself. I never said that Final Fantasy didn't have good graphics.
You misunderstood what I said about Final Fantasy VII. It's not very technically impressive. But it still looked good thanks to the art direction. Just look up that other games released in 1997 for the playstation. Crash Bandicoot 2 for example or Gran Turismo. Full on 3D games that pushed what the playstation was capable of at the time. And it sort of always been like this. Just l compare Final Fantasy XIII with The Last of Us on the PS3 for example.
Yes Final Fantasy XIII looks very nice, but it's not that impressive compared to some other games on the system.
Final Fantasy VII looked good thanks to nice looking pre-rendered backgrounds and good art direction.
Final Fantasy VI had great graphics for being on the SNES, but that was also more of an artistic thing rather than technical.
However I am not saying that it's not one of the better looking games on the system.
But then again, you have games like Starfox and Donkey Kong Country for example.
They always made games that looked nice, but mostly from an artistic perspective rather than a technical one.
About the Metallica reference, again you fail to understand my point of view. I don't say that you need to have heard all their albums to call yourself a Metallica fan. Heck you can even dislike some albums but still call yourself a fan. (I'm not a big fan of Final Fantasy II) But if you don't like the genre of music that they are most known for or only listen to the song Nothing Else Matters then I don't think you should call yourself a fan. To be a fan I would say that you should understand what sort of music they play and enjoy listening to it, you don't need to love every album, but you should probably enjoy listening to Thrash metal.
You're right, I am not a true fan of the franchise anymore. Despite playing and beating all games to date (Except XI and XV, played both but never stuck with them to the end, I also never bothered with all the mobile games). I played all the Final Fantasy games in their original forms and also their remakes and remasters. Many of these games I have beaten so many times that I lost count.
Unfortunately the franchise lost its magic with Final Fantasy XII and have never quite recovered it.
And now they have also changed the genre. I am not saying that XV was a bad game or that XVI is not going to be a great game.
But to me it has lost the Final Fantasy magic, and the change to action RPG only makes it less Final Fantasy.
I am a fan of what Final Fantasy used to be and what Square used to be before they became this big corporate money sucking machine.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@tallythwack Not as many perhaps, but plenty enough.
Most Final Fantasy games have sold well. And games such as Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default sold decently right.
I never said it needs to go LOW budget. It doesn't always have to be one extreme or another, There's an "in-between" as well..
But the way they have been focusing on like the best graphics in the last 20 years har been a huge time-sink, and time is money.
The graphics needs to be good sure, but does it have to be THAT good?
Final Fantasy graphics has always been nice, But it has mostly come down to artistic reasons rather than technical.
And back in the day they were able to release a new game every other year. I understand that dev time is longer today and that's ok.
But just look at Final Fantasy XV what an expensive mess that was.
There's been rumours of a FFIX remake, You don't think it would sell well if it retained it's original combat system?
Just look at DragonQuest XI and Pokemon Scarlet And Violet they sold well.
People even called DragonQuest XI the best DQ game ever and the graphics was not bad. But also not really industry leading.
Final Fantasy VII for example was not so beloved due to it's technically advanced graphics.
But it did a good job painting a picture and setting a mood with its pre-rendered backgrounds paired with Uematsu's iconic music.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@tallythwack they don't need to make Final Fantasy mainstream to make tons of money. And they don't need to pour so much money into developing a single game to make it good.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@themightyant I think we have a different opinion on that a turn based system is. For me it's "turn based" if you have to wait for your turn, before you can make a move. It can be done in many different ways. And Square has experimented with many different turn based system for Final Fantasy.
ATB is one way. Cooldowns are a different way. Static turn based like chess or Final Fantasy X is not the only way to make a turn based game. Final Fantasy tactics was also turn-based.
Now if you push a button for an immediate attack that's not turn based.
I argue that Final Fantasy 11 and 14 do not belong in the mainline franchise because they are MMO's. Much like how Blizzard didn't name WoW "Warcraft 4". At least they had the brain to figure out that hey this is a different type of game based of the Warcraft franchise.
But it's typical of SquareEnix to make these weird decisions that don't make sense, they could have called them Final Fantasy Online or World of Final Fantasy or something else.
"But it would all still be Metal" - Correct, but it would be a different subgenre, And anyone who listens to metal know that there's subgenres that are vastly different from one another and there might be some subgenres that you don't even like.
This can be directly translated into video game subgenres as well. Like imagine if a new Ridge Racer game was announced, The fans would go crazy over it, and then it turns out that they turned the arcade racer into a racing simulator. Of course the fans would be disappointed.
Imagine you go and order a pizza and they give you a flippin hamburger and the when you complain the chef says "Well it's all just bread and meat anyway!" hahah
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@awaltzforvenus XI, XII, Lightning Returns and XIV was not purely action based, none of them were.
Maybe it was classified as such by some, but you still have cooldowns ATB meters and such making sure that you have to wait your turn.
There's not the attack button and roll/dodge button which seems to be the new direction.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@tallythwack You're smart, I'm sure you can figure it out yourself
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@themightyant Final fantasy XII just gave the illusion of real-time because you were able to move your characters during the battle. but you still had to wait for your turn before you had attack and use spells and stuff.
And like you said it had the gambit system that worked in a similar manner to how "auto-battle" works in DragonQuest. Only with Final Fantasy XII being even more tactical and customisable.
But it was still turn based as your party members had their cooldown before they could do anything.
It's very different from Final Fantasy XV which barely have any cooldowns and most of the time you just attack, dodge and parry attacks.
"It’s spent as long not being turn based as turn based. "
I don't think the time matters much..
How many mainline Final Fantasy games have been released that are action based in that time?
Well that would be Final Fantasy XV and Final Fantasy VII Remake (If you even should count that one as a mainline entry), Final Fantasy XVI being released next week.
So that makes what? 3 games... so far.. Against like 15 turn-based titles. Oh and yeah I do not count Final Fantasy XI and XIV as these should never have been main line anyway, even if they could be regarded as turn based to some extent and would even strengthen my point.
"Pre-FF7 characters features were exaggerated due to turning these into small pixel sprites and it was common for the heads, hair and weapons (when shown) to be disproportionately larger than they should be. e.g. FF1-6 often the head and hair is about two-thirds the size of the rest of the body and when swords appeared on screen for them to be as tall as the character."
yeah it's called chibi. It was done that way mostly for practical reasons, how many 8-16-bit rpg games have you played when character sprites have realistic proportions?
You can see in the FMV sequences and the Amano artwork what the characters were actually supposed to look like.
"It hasn’t changed genre. It’s still an RPG."
It's now what is referred to as an ARPG, yes it's a thing, there's even a wikipedia page if you look up Action RPG.
Final Fantasy did not use to be an action RPG franchise.
It's very similar to is Metallica would stop making thrash metal and all their new album would be power metal albums. Their iconic sound would be lost and fans would be upset about that for sure, and rightly so.
Now please realise that for every argument you throw at me I will have a counter argument because I have ADHD and Final Fantasy has been my entire life, I know my stuff about this franchise.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@awaltzforvenus yeah, how many Final Fantasy games have they released in those 20 years that are not turn based? two I guess with a 3rd one being released next week.
How many games have been turn-based jpgs? 15 I think...
So they released 15 turn based jpgs (Excluding XI and XIV since they are online), Building a solid fanbase.
Then they just went and completely changed the genre.
Is it strange that fans take offence? I don't think so.
The move to action "rpg" is clearly a move to appeal more to the mainstream. That a good thing if you don't care about your fans and just want to make more money.
Sure it's the sole purpose of a company to make money.
However I don't think they should treat that franchise with such disrespect, Final Fantasy 1 literally saved Square from bankruptcy.
Anyone who defend such a move (that disrespect the games roots, DNA, and the fanbase) is clearly guided selfish gain.
Similar to defending child labour because it means that you might be able to buy something for a lower price.
Only in this case, YOU enjoy action games more so from your perspective it's good because you have more games that appeal to you.
And you don't care if an entire fanbase was betrayed, as long as you get your action game.
As if you didn't have plenty of action games already?
Great jRPG that doesn't feel like a cringe worthy anime (Like the Tales games for example) are few and far between.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@themightyant "A sweeping story with a wide range of engaging characters in a fantasy setting? A story based around crystals and eikons/eidolons/espers etc that is really just a thinly veiled commentary on the state of aspects in our world? Equipment and skill trees? Big swords, big hair and epic music? The FF prelude theme or victory music? Elemental based magic? Chocobos, Moogles and Cid? A wide world to explore? Giant budget for the genre? A game that pushes boundaries and tries to push the genre forward? I could go on…"
I disagree.
That is what Final Fantasy seemingly has become in the later years, but that is not what the franchise was known for in the golden era of the franchise. Some of it yes, but not all.
Final Fantasy VII introduced big hair and big swords.
All games up until 13 (Excluding 11) has been turn based jpgs, That's most of the franchise.
Most game studios don't change the genre of the mainline games in a franchise. World of Warcraft is not called Warcraft 4 and the Mario&Luigi games are not classed as mainline Mario games.
SquareEnix has messed this up, most people knows it.
Had they not made this game into a numbered entry (Same really with XI, XIV and XV), then no-one would have complained.
Because they are all great games.
But they do not belong in the numbered mainline.
Final Fantasy XIII belongs in the mainline though (Because it's still a turn based jRPG), even if it is one of the worst.
Most companies have the decency and brains not to change the genre of a franchise.
And if they do, then it'll be like a spin-off or like a spin-off series.
And this used to be the case with SquareSoft as well, just thinking about the Mana, Saga, Final Fantasy Tactics and Kingdom Hearts series.
They all started as Final Fantasy off-shoots/spin-off titles that eventually got their own identities.
But after the Square+Enix merge, then they lost their sense and have ever since made a countless of strange decisions.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@KaijuKaiser You're missing the point..
It's not about "gate-keeping". It feel like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
You think you can say that you're a fan of Indian cuisine after only trying a Butter Chicken?
You can say that you're a fan of butter chicken.
But that alone is a poor representation of Indian cuisine as a whole.
I think of it the same way with a video game franchise, just playing one game, and especially a game that many agree on is like a black sheep of the franchise is not going to give you a very good understanding of what the franchise is all about.
And then I don't think you can really call yourself a fan of the franchise.
If you only played Final Fantasy XIV then you can be a Final Fantasy XIV fan, you would probably also enjoy Final Fantasy XI. But you're not really a Final Fantasy franchise fan.
Just as playing World of Warcraft doesn't make you a Warcraft fan without even trying the actual Warcraft games
If there is one Final Fantasy game that best represents what Final Fantasy is about then it would be Final Fantasy IX.
It was made as a celebration of the entire franchise as a whole and succeeds in that. It's also one of the most beloved by the fans.
So I would recommend anyone who want to know what Final Fantasy is.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@tallythwack No you don't need to, but playing the black sheep of the franchise and calling yourself a fan of the entire franchise is maybe not the smartest
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
Removed
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@KaijuKaiser that asmondgold sure seems impressive...
Too bad he didn't promote a proper main line Final Fantasy title instead.
Becoming a fan of Final Fantasy XIV-XVI doesn't make you a fan of the franchise alone. Those games are not representative enough of the franchise.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@Lmaooo 100%, But you can absolutely become a new fan of the Franchise, My first Final Fantasy was FFVII back in the 90s I loved it so much that I had to get hold of all the games that came before it, after playing 1-7 I new I could call myself a fan of the franchise, and I have played every Final Fantasy game since, except some spin-off titles and Final Fantasy 11.
but that year when I played Final Fantasy 1-7 I considered myself a new fan of the franchise. Now I am an old bitter fan of the franchise hahaha
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@KaijuKaiser I guess you didn't get my point then
"Crystals, summons , dragoons, world building, iconic enemies, epic music, Cid, etc"
None of those are game related necessarily. So could be any media, any genre, could be a book, a tv show, a movie.
Again I am not saying that Final Fantasy XVI is gonna be a bad game, from what I played so far in the demo it's great.
But it doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy game to me.
And when they show summons and chocobo's it almost as if they are trying to convince me that it is.
You play a bit and be like "This feels sort of like The Witcher 3" then the game goes "No look here you have a chocobo, IT IS FINAL FANTASY!", and I'll be like "yeah nice try.."
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@KaijuKaiser So maybe Final Fantasy 17 will be a high budget movie then.. as long as it has "Crystals, summons , dragoons, world building, iconic enemies, epic music, Cid, etc"
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@KaijuKaiser So with your logic it would be completely fine to make final fantasy mainline any genre as long as it has "Crystals, summons , dragoons, world building, iconic enemies, epic music, Cid, etc"
perhaps a final fantasy first person western RPG like the elder scroll? Or even better a real time strategy? Or a Doom like shooter with Firaga flamethrowers and blizzaga machine guns?
Hey I am not saying they can't do stuff like that but better to do that as spine-off games, like they used to with Final Fantasy tactics, Final Fantasy VII - crisis core, final fantasy VII - Dirge of Cerberus, Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles just to name a few
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@KaijuKaiser What roots is it that it didn't forget? The Chocobos and Moogles? Because they sure forgot all the gameplay that made Final Fantasy great.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@KaijuKaiser It's weird that Final Fantasy 11 and 14 are named as if they were Main line titles though. To me it would make more sense if they were named Final Fantasy Online or World of Final Fantasy, but they decided to name another spin-off that...
All Final Fantasy mainline games up until Final Fantasy 10 has been turn based jRPG's. Their highest rated games belongs to this group. And generally most fan agrees that they have been going downhill since 10. (Even if many still praise Final Fantasy XII)
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
@NEStalgia To me, Final Fantasy is and will forever be turn based jRPG with seriously good stories and interesting worlds to explore, accompanied by great music and art direction.
Sure you can expect chocobos, moogles and other Final Fantasy creatures to appear but ultimately it's was always the turn based combat and story telling that did it for me.
Square used to experiment a bit within the borders of the genre, but it always felt familiar starting a new Final Fantasy game.
Things started going south with Final Fantasy XIII.
And Final Fantasy XV was originally supposed to be a spin-off game called Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Renaming it XV and taking the entire franchise in that direction will make them money as they will appeal more to mainstream gamers, but they are abandoning their loyal fanbase. It's a shame.
Final Fantasy is dead for me, Final Fantasy XVI is nothing more than a Final Fantasy spin-off in my eyes.
Maybe one day SquareEnix will cast a phoenix down on the franchise and do a FFIX again. "A game that returns to the roots"
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players
Congratulations SquareEnix you successfully converted the Final Fantasy franchise to a mainstream action game.
All the comments like "I never liked Final Fantasy before but I really liked this demo" prove it.
I played the demo as well, and yeah it seems like a damn good Final Fantasy "spin-off" game. It got arrangements of classic Final Fantasy tunes including the prelude theme, it got Moogles and Chocobos and it got summons. But it doesn't have the gameplay.
I never really loved the action RPG direction of Final Fantasy XV and VII Remake, but this game is even less RPG and more action from what I can tell.
It's not that I don't like action games, but there's plenty of action games out there. But there's not that many great turn based jRPG franchises anymore, I sure hope they won't mess up the Dragon Quest franchise as well.
Re: Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth Will Offer a 'High Degree of Freedom' on PS5
"traversal and navigation across Midgar"??
As far as I know this game takes place on the planet of Gaia, after you leave Midgar city. I haven't heard anything about going back to Midgar.
Re: Final Fantasy 16's Liquid Flame Boss Battle on PS5 Will Melt Your Eyes
This looks like a very high budget Final Fantasy spin-off Just like Final Fantasy XV.
From what I've seen so far this is an even bigger departure from the traditional Final Fantasy gameplay than Final Fantasy XV in that now you no longer have any party, you run around alone.
Hey I am not saying this won't be a good or even great game, but is it really a Final Fantasy mainline game just because you put a number in the title?
I never met a fan of the Final Fantasy franchise who complained about turn based battles.
Going from turn based RPG to action RPG (Is it even an RPG still?) is like turning chess into bowling.
Hey bowling is fun.. But if I buy a chess game I expect tactical turn based gameplay, not winning by throwing my chess pieces at my opponents.
I really wish Square Enix would understand this. Creating more traditional Final Fantasy titles would not mean that they could not also create action based spin off titles or new IP's that are pure action games.
And hey, They already have Kingdom Hearts which is really successful.
Re: Final Fantasy Could Ditch Numbers for Future Instalments
Yes very smart Square Enix, Kill what little you still have to differentiate the spin-off titles with the main line series...
Wow they really need new leadership, it's just one stupid decision after another.
Re: Rumour: PS Vita 2 Dreams Killed But Sony Might Have a Handheld for PS5 Remote Play in the Works
Are they planning to release a Wii U gamepad for the PS5?
Sounds interesting but not for me
Re: Final Fantasy 16 Goes Gold Well Ahead of June Release Date
Too bad gold these days still means "in beta", well at least they have some time to make that day 1 patch...
Re: Soapbox: PSVR2 Already Feels Like It's on Course for Failure
I would say that it really depends on the games being released for it from here on out.
Many reviewers have pointed out that the tech is very good and the comfort is great but that the headset expensive and has a weak launch line-up of games. And as a PSVR2 owner I would have to agree with that.
It's really very similar criticism that we saw with the 3DS when it was first launched.
But in the case of the 3DS, Nintendo were able to turn it around with more games and a decent price drop.
I don't think it will be as easy for the PSVR2 due to the fact that it's VR, It's just not as popular as traditional gaming.
But we'll see, I doubt Sony will just sit on their asses and do nothing while sales are continuing to decline.
Re: Random: Pop Star Rina Sawayama Is a PlayStation Fangirl, and Wants a Final Fantasy 9 Remake
@Fight_Teza_Fight Again? FFVI has been remade twice already. haha oh, but perhaps you want them to remake VI in 3D?
Oh god, they would totally screw that one up big time.
I imagine them turning the battles into Tekken Tag tournament and removing the Esper growth system to make it more "accessible" for non-rpg gamers
They probably change the story so that the world of ruin is prevented and explain the the story of the original FFVI is a conveniently different timeline.
That would be very Square Enix. They have totally lost their touch when it comes to Final Fantasy.
Yes Final Fantasy XVI looks good, and so did Final Fantasy XV as XIII, people were excited for these games as well.
But it turned out to be mostly disappointment.
The management needs the franchise to grow, so they are butchering it's identity in order for it to appeal more to the mainstream.
It's quite sad to see
Re: Preview: Final Fantasy 16 Is Shaping Up to Be a PS5 Game of the Year Contender
@Fath Yeah anime characters in their 30s are OLD xD
Re: Preview: Final Fantasy 16 Is Shaping Up to Be a PS5 Game of the Year Contender
@ShogunRok The hype was real for Final Fantasy XV as well...
Re: Horizon Fans Can't Believe How Short Aloy Is in PSVR2
I just wanted to grab her by the hip and lift her up for some strange reason
Re: PSVR2 Early Adopters Are Struggling to Find the Sweet Spot
my biggest enemy so far har been chromatic aberration. I know how I should adjust the vertical tilt to fix it, but the headset just don't want to stay in position. I wish Sony would have implemented a way to dial this in like how you can adjust the spacing between the lenses.
I get to a point where it's almost fixed and in game it really doesn't look bad at all, it's definitely the worst on white text in the PS5 menus (it sort of look like the top half of a letter is red and the lower half is blue or vice versa).
but maybe I am too sensitive to these things..
Re: New PS5 Games Release Dates in 2023
Where are the Final Fantasy Pixel Remasters?
Re: Final Fantasy 7 Remake Producer Says Narrative Changes 'Necessary' to Keep Players Interested
Why is it so terribly difficult for Square Enix to deliver what the fans want? I mean look at Nintendo, they manage to do it over and over.
A game like Final Fantasy VII didn't "Need" any change to the story for people to play it and stay interested, it also didn't "need" the change in game genre...
All the fans ever expect from a remake is
A) better graphics
B) QOL changes
No one, I repeat NO ONE! Will expect a remake to change the story or genre of the game.
Even Square Enix have to understand that fans have not been pestering them for decades about a FFVII remake because they want a new story..
I think most people was happy with the story until they started changing it too much towards the end.
Like you can add to the story to make it richer and stuff, like giving Jessie some more backstory for example, that's not the same as changing the story, you're just adding to it.
They should have focused on just adding to the story instead of changing it.
Re: Poll: Would You Be Interested in a Detachable PS5 Disc Drive?
Sure I would be interested in an external disc drive for my PS5 digital edition.
extra plus if it can be used as a bluray player on PC and Mac as well.
It's not like I NEED it, but having the option to pop in a disc is nice. It's also nice to not have it built into the console.
The laser heads was always the first thing to die in my Playstation consoles.
having that weak link externally connected put me at ease a bit, since it's easily replaced.
Re: Phew, Moogles Look Like Classic Moogles in Final Fantasy 16
Yeah I am really happy that they are not saying kupo..
Back in the day I always imagined "Kupo" as a sound rather than a word. Similar to "Roar".
I really couldn't stand the Moogle in XIII-2 saying Kupo all the time. And they continued that stupid trend.
I am pleased to hear that this Moogle now make a better sound.
However I think the proper way to do it would be a mix of the Kupo (Sound not word) and voice acting.
Re: PS5 Players Don't Want to See 60fps Die Out
I hope to see a future where 60fps is the lowest option.
For me framerate is more important than graphics and 30fps is something I wish for to go away for good.
Options is always nice, but remove the bad options. no-one want their game to be a pretty "slideshow". the option should be between 60fps (fidelity mode) vs 120fps (performance mode)
I can only accept 30fps in like a photo mode or something like that.
It's time to make the jump
Re: New Final Fantasy 16 Trailer Is Over 4 Minutes of World Building Goodness
People people people, calm down.
The amount of gameplay they have been showing has been very sparse.
What you have been impressed by is mostly cutscenes.
Final Fantasy XIII also had awesome cutscenes and so did Final Fantasy XV.
Re: All VRR Optimised Games for PS5
@thefourfoldroot
well that depends on what you mean by "improve performance".
VRR does not limit the fps like it does otherwise.
So it actually can improve performance if the game is allowing unlocked fps.
Normally the games would apply something like V-Sync to limit the fps to something like 30 or 60 fps.
but with VRR the the game can run at 58fps without the game pushed all the way back to 30fps by v-sync.
And that jump between 60fps and 30fps will be way more noticeable than the change from 60fps to 58fps.
So is you ask me then VRR certainly improves the performance.
Re: Poll: How Long Should Games Be?
weird question, that depends entirely on the game.
Some games are completely fine being just a few hours long while others can be almost never ending. MMORpgs are usually very long, but that works for these games because they are social and you interact with other people. Also there is so much to do in these types of games.
Then you have games like 1st person singel player games that usually are possible to complete in one long session (If you are good and have the patience). these games usually are built to be replayed on multiple difficulties as well as finding secrets.
It all comes down to the type of game.
But then comes the question on pricing, do I think a game that you can finish in 1-2 hours and has little to no replay value should ever be sold for the same price as games that give you +30 hours of gameplay and has replay value? No not really.
Unless it's doing something very special that makes it worth it.
Pricing needs to be set based on the amount of enjoyment you are getting out of the game.