Vertere

@get2sammyb I bought Slitterhead and didn’t bother finishing it.

I picked it up and finished the campaign. I know it’s a product of its time so should be judged through that lens to some extent. However I didn’t really think it was that interesting. Loved the Destiny series so decided to grab this but don’t think I’ll be reaching back into the Halo universe any time soon.

I’m confused as the purpose of this boycott? They want discs for PS5 and PS4 new releases to continue indefinitely? Or next gen to continue with physical releases?

@Divergent95 I mean you could just preorder prior or purchase after the dates if this boycott means something to you?
I won’t participate, but yes I hope the release gets good traction, the games are so underrated.

@IllusiveMan I completely agree the communication has been dreadful. It’s not always about dry press releases but engaging with people can go along way. It can also backfire, often at Microsoft when Phil tried to be approachable. That said, this predominantly affects the launch of the PS6 which hasn’t been announced. Publisher’s can still press older copies of discs even after the date. This really is about the PS6 and consumers will have their choice at launch. I’m unsure why they decided to announce so far in advance, perhaps so customers will lock in more digital purchases if given the choice after the news.

@bindiana Depends how you quantify risk. I’d say they are taking huge risks. Live service is notoriously expensive and risky. Naughty Dog committed hundreds of millions into an original IP.
We know we’ll get a few more original games from smaller studios and Saros wasn’t cheap. I think across the slate it’s pretty well balanced mix between older established franchises, spin offs like Wolverine and Laufaye and newer stuff like Intergalactic, Saros and Tokon etc.

Loved the early Metal Gear games and enjoyed Metal Gear Solid TPP and Delta the newer remake. However I remember bouncing off 4 pretty hard and not particularly enjoying it. Is it worth playing through it?

@species It’s as the review says a product of its time. Keep this in mind, the level structure and way it plays definitely is reflected in its time period even if it’s had a shiny new coat of paint. If you enjoy older linear shooters you’ll enjoy this.

@Wiceheid I think you trying to look for a correlation that is tenuous at best. Correlation isn’t causation. Live service games have around now for decades as have digital games. The shift to single games for a younger demographic didn’t really start until 2017. There are many more plausible explanations for the rise in live service model popularity and younger generation buying fewer game than the second hand market for physical discs which we still have and hasn’t encouraged them to widen their purchasing habits. Live service companies have gotten much better at player retention, psychological reward loops, commercialisation of user generated content and the rise of free to play games all have far more impact on user engagement hours than simply the rise of digital sales.

I’m not sure what you mean by Steam mimics the secondary market prices, Steam itself operates almost exactly as the PS storefront with a few major exceptions but those don’t relate to sales. Publishers who set prices on Steam do so exactly as they do on PSN. Steam manages sales and promotions and publishers can opt in and set discount rates. Steam has more selection especially cheaper games, allows early access, operates more sales and critically allows user to add games purchased from outside its ecosystem but its pricing outside of promotions is largely the same. You can find cheaper digital games on PSN during its sales than Steam equally sometimes.

I definitely think Sony can and should do more digital sales and promotions and that they have no excuses after moving everything to digital sales.

@Wiceheid I’m not sure the rise in popularity of live service is attributable to the rise in digital media. Steam has some of the most active indie communities and has had digital only for decades.
If publishers really want consumers to pay attention to its products then there is nothing stopping them from putting out digital demos to lower the cost barrier for consumers to try them.

@cainhurst94 All good points. I assume point one would be clarified prior to the PS6 launch. On point two, Steam certainly has more sales and promotions, hardly surprising when they have had the financial benefit of digital only sales for years and publishers further incentivised to participate. Outside of sales and promotions the prices are largely comparable. Sony will need to do a lot more if it wants to retain consumers who predominantly purchase from the secondary market.
Lastly you’re completely correct, digital rights should be the focus of consumers and regulators far more than they currently are. The entire industry is complicit, with Valve actively using its financial weight to litigate and lobby against greater control for consumers over their digital purchases. It shouldn’t take Chinese courts to establish precedent for inheritance of digital assets. There really needs to a comprehensive overhaul of consumer digital rights in the EU and US for the industry to make meaningful changes.

@UltimateOtaku91 Not exactly sure what was inferred. Always hard with translation but yes sounded like corporate double speak for we support physical here is your retail physical copy special edition, digital code included. Wouldn’t think it would satisfy collectors as that’s exactly what Sony is doing.

The data may provide insight into Sony’s decision but at the end of day Sony doesn’t need excuses for going all digital next gen. They will put out a product and it’s completely up to consumers to decide if they see something worth buying.

“Then again, the reviews featured in the above trailer are impossible to deny, so who knows?”

Facts. I’m convinced.

It seems Nippon Ichi Software delisted the game from sale in early 2015 on the PS3 store as there was a newer version of the game they wanted to sell. Apologies I’m not very familiar with the series. The amount of games that have actually been removed from customers libraries is actually very few so I’m surprised there isn’t more documentation on this. Cases like Ubisoft The Crew are usually well documented, and can’t see this game listed in the usual databases.

Sammy actually had an article on something similar but it wasn’t intended. https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2022/04/classic-games-including-ps1-curiously-expiring-on-ps3-ps-vita

@Rhaoulos You can’t even put Sony in same category as Microsoft. Microsoft had some S tier deals. Sony could have a Bungie every year and still not touch the masters. Every few years some executive at Microsoft touts they’ll revolutionise the sector. I still remember when they told us Windows Mobile will be the future of mobile OS. Acquired Nokia for $7 billion then less than two years later sold it for $350m.

Explains why Microsoft needed to buy two of the largest publishers in the industry if they are paying these rates to make games exclusive. My excel spreadsheet says Gamepass just needs 100m paid subscribers and it will all make sense.

@Zuljaras Also you misunderstand what a Monopoly actually is in business. Having choice does not automatically exclude a monopolistic position. In some cases having a 50% market share or greater could qualify.

https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined

@PuppetMaster I might regret asking this. You said Sony deleted your game from your download list? Delisting usually means removed from sale but can nearly always be redownloaded? So you are saying a paid digital game has been permanently removed from your download list?

@Zuljaras “On console you do not have that option, you will pay what the owner lets you”. No you will pay what the publisher of that game sets the price at. Sony as with Steam acts as the merchant of record for its own storefront and along with its platform fees equals what customers pay.
More choice for consumers is always better but it’s disingenuous to suggest Sony isn’t as susceptible to market competition by virtue of operating its own storefront.

@Zuljaras come on, GoG has what a single digit market share? 2 to 4% would a fair guess. Steam has like 80%+. So when we discuss Monopolies or DRM free games we shouldn’t be disingenuous about it. Competition is the market overall, Sony controlling its own storefront is no different from Apple or Google. The competition comes from pricing across the entire sector and it’s set by publishers not storefront operators.

@Max_the_German PC gaming is decreasing in popularity in Japan. People keep quoting Japan as an example of physical games importance when the most popular games and gaming is done by far on mobile phones. Sony launching an affordable handheld will do far more for its market share and popularity in Japan than the format of how its games are distributed.

Charging extra for dlc on a 15 year old game is taking the piss.

I was hopeful for an optional accessory drive so people could play PS1 to PS5 physical games on the PS6. Would have been really nice to have a device where all legacy physical media could be taken forwards. However these numbers are so miserable it seems more unlikely unfortunately. Seems pointless arguing about percentage of physical sales accuracy as if these numbers are even remotely close to being correct it’s very dire situation for physical.

Might have to pick this up. It looked well up my street but then I looked up gameplay and passed. I didn’t realise that was only part of the package.

@SoulsBourne128 I don’t know about lack of support for Marathon. The support has been pretty good, devs are prompt, respond quickly to issues and feedback. In over 150 hours I’ve not had the game crash or disconnect during a match. Dedicated servers with excellent tick rates. Just launched into an environment where there were headwinds and generally negative sentiment about it not being more Destiny which was struggling itself. Such is the roulette wheel of live service.

@ShadowRJ It’s a very well made game and Joseph Ziegler should be commended for taking over a difficult project and getting such a polished final result. it’s not a game that has wide appeal. Bungie wanted to make a game that captured a wider audience but in the end there is a reason Tarkov and Hunt have small dedicated communities.

@mvhess It’s ridiculous, I’m picking the game up on PS5. Looks fun. When people annoyingly start being pushy or obnoxious about things it generally has the opposite effect on a lot of people.

Never played BE, but any new turn based FF. How can you say no especially with those graphics.

@Runex2121 Tbh not sure, it says “ The new store captures the excitement of convention-exclusive merchandise—collectibles, curated drops, and limited-release products”. Subscribers who pay to watch this stuff getting offered more plastic anime tat, does anyone care. Genuinely. It feels like people are looking for any excuse to moan and complain.

Limited edition merch offered first to the customers that spent the most. Seems like what most companies in the planet do. Are we really at a point where we need to complain about everything and anything for clicks. I’m sure there’s a tweet somewhere that saw a Sony employee smoking and headline reported the company is polluting the planet.

They have talented artists and programmers in China, so why are people in positions that approve projects telling the team to play X then copy and paste it with a few changes. It’s not inspiration it’s a pale imitation.

@Rich33 The communication has been dreadful. They should have known an announcement like this shouldn’t be all stick no carrot. Leaving the question open of physical legacy interoperability should not have been left to speculation. Providing a few answers made have made bad news a little easier to swallow.
I completely agree that Sony has serious work to do with its digital policies including refunds. If it wants retain customers it should be a market leader in digital rights not just dragging their heels doing the minimum.
I imagine digital is a core part of its next platform and integral component of its next hardware ecosystem. That said Sony are a hardware business, their engineers basically invented Bluray. If they want to provide a solution I’m confident the lads in the hardware department can figure it out. Even if they are open about it, let customers know physicals potential limitations in the new ecosystem it’s still may be a preferred option for some.

@HonestHick Ha join the rest of us. The academic definition of Monopoly may or may not neatly fit. To be honest it also largely doesn’t matter. It’s whether the FTC, CMA or other large market regulators see a competitive market disrupted by a dominant company and that company is using its position to the detriment of consumers or suppliers.

@HonestHick So regarding pricing on PSN, Sony doesn’t set pricing. The prices on PSN and almost all similar storefronts are set by the publishers. The only exception to this in Sony’s case are the games it produces and publishes. For PSN Sony is the merchant of record, handles payment, processing, refunds, regional currency exchanges it also arranges marketing and sales etc. The publishers set prices, opt into sales and set discount rates. Variations between say Steam or Xbox and PSN for 3rd party games are usually attributable to timed sales, promotions or minor changes in FX rates, processing fees etc. Dropping physical discs won’t affect digital pricing as largely publisher pricing is fairly uniform across the industry including platforms that haven’t had physical in some time or a secondary market.

Sony controlling its own storefront isn’t inherently a monopoly. Practically all companies in the sector do this. Google, Apple, Microsoft etc. The problems occur when any company has a dominant market share within the entire industry or sector. This could be content (FTC Microsoft case acquisition of several large publishers) or marketplace access. Sony has a decent market share of the console space but far less for example than Steam has over the PC space. There is obviously a lot more detail and depth, more than possibly a comment could satisfactorily explain.

Without getting into the weeds people are rightly concerned about digital ownership rights and the loss of physical games is disappointing mostly because PlayStation was one of the last major players accomodating and servicing this part of the market. However the fearmongering that without physical games somehow Sony is now free to price gouge its customers just isn’t how the market works or even in Sony’s interest. Yes Sony earns much more from digital sales but importantly its customers aren’t paying more.

@neoxmahi I tend to agree, the dots are certainly connecting. Either Xbox is spun off for sale and Asha is charged with bringing some semblance of sustainability to the subsidiary prior to divestment. Xbox are transitioning out of hardware or both.
We know they’ve committed to a generation 10 hardware model. We can assume it’s digital only, has functionality that enables its users to access from PC with stronger PC integration and shares a storefront in some way. A program in place for transitioning previous generations physical games into a digital library. It feels like Xbox is transitioning to a software and services platform, they may work with 3rd party hardware manufacturers in the future for hardware and just provide an customised windows OS.

If this the plan, it may work for them as whatever they’ve been doing recently clearly isn’t. The only part I’m concerned about is where do studios producing entertainment that by nature is creative and artistic now stand within this new structure. At the heart of the games industry are games. Not just ‘content’ designed to reach a billion people per day.

It’s only 24 times more than the peak population of Steam. So you’re saying there’s a chance.

@CheesyOatcake Steam has a different version for China. It’s run in partnership with another company. PSN for years didn’t have an offical store or service so everyone just used Hong Kong. Really wasn’t a big deal.

@Oram77 I don’t know about the complete list but certain country’s obviously appear and Steam doesn’t even allow some. North Korea, Russia, Belarus Iran etc.
In PSN case Imagine it’s more to do with having a lack of in country presence. Most people who live in these countries that aren’t supported just use the US or UK, it’s never been that much of a big deal.

I really don’t know why Sony doesn’t do more of these. They have such extensive infrastructure to develop these projects. Not to mention one of the best Animation studios in the world currently doing films.

@beltmenot You tube.

@themightyant I don't know, when they say not closing it could be a technicality in a few cases. We need to see exactly what the managed disposals or ‘divestment’ actually looks like. If most of the staff are laid off and management are buying a shell or assets and keep a skeleton crew on. A couple of the studios seem close to launching a game so may be able to raise financing. Fingers crossed.

@Toot1st It’s as good as. Microsoft is laying off thousands and the rest at these studios rather than taking full severance will try to cling onto jobs if the management buy out can raise any funds. For those 5 studios it’s not far off worse case honestly.

@AdamNovice Potentially, in Arkane’s case French labour laws are quite stringent. If you can offload the studio for $1 all the liabilities go with it. As with most things the devils in the details.

@Old-Red I think people that say jumping to steam is a no brainer are the ones least likely to make consciousness led choices about consumption involving physical media.

@ozkrmz GoG are top tier. Epic are decent to devs. I don’t know about humble bundle tbh.
Nine Sol is tough as……I’m slowly getting through it.

@Dogbreath I don’t know. Vinyl records aren’t any more expensive inflation adjusted than the 70s. We all know physical media sales are a minority and decreasing, doesn’t mean they are zero. Markets find a way to satisfy consumers demands.

@ozkrmz So where do you buy and play games?

@Robocod You’re comparing two different eras and then prescribing competency whilst ignoring current market conditions and consumer trends.
Shuhei originally greenlit Concord, he’s said as much himself. The guy is great but you can’t directly compare executives decisions decades apart in the technology sector and with inherent bias. Those were the same group that launched the PS3. Decisions made by executives that align with your personal preferences may not be objectively better.

@TimeDelayedGamer Valve come on, really? I use Steam, but I’m under absolutely zero illusions who they are. They aren’t some benevolent private company. You’re angry Sony have ceased physical media which is understandable. However writing I’ll take my business to Valve is deeply ironic as they pioneered digital only sales decades ago. In fact Valve are more insidious than most in this regard as they have fundamental lobbied against more digital rights and consumer protections.
No one can tell anyone else where to spend their money but if you feel PC is a better fit for you please consider GoG.
My personal feelings are mixed, I’m deeply disappointed with this decision by Sony, I hope a compromise will be found. At the same time I recognise Sony’s contribution to physical. Pioneering Blu-ray and making an effort to ensure most physical products to date have been actually on the disc unlike Microsoft that for a long time have offered a code or empty disc in a box.

Source: https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2024/12/french-supreme-court-rules-on-resale-of-digital-video-games