News Article

PlayStation Hardware Sales Leave Xbox in the Dust

Posted by Sammy Barker

PS4 reverses firm's fortunes

It’s no real secret that the PlayStation 4 is a runaway success, and that’s been reflected by Sony’s latest hardware sales figures. In the platform holder’s most recent financial report, the company claims that its gaming business has seen a 95.7 per cent increase in revenue year-over-year, with the division pulling in ¥257.5 billion ($2.5 billion) for the first fiscal quarter of 2014 compared to ¥131.6 billion ($1.2 billion) in 2013.

Unsurprisingly, the chuffed manufacturer attributed the growth to its next-gen console, while also mentioning increased PlayStation Network sales prompted by the platform, which presumably means boosted PlayStation Plus subscriptions. With research and development on its new machine high last year, it actually made an operating loss of ¥16.4 billion ($164 million) for the period spanning April through June, but this time it managed an operating profit of ¥4.3 billion ($43 million).

It did mention, however, that decreasing PlayStation 3 software sales had impacted its earnings a little bit, though the news was wholly positive in the hardware space. Between the PS4 and PS3, the Japanese giant sold 3.5 million consoles through to consumers – an enormous increase on Microsoft’s tally of 1.1 million Xbox systems shipped to retailers during the same period. Handheld sales also improved slightly, up from 0.6 million units in 2013 to 0.75 million units.

Elsewhere, software sales surged year-over-year, with the firm’s various machines moving 85 million titles compared to just 68 million the year prior. All of this has put the platform holder in a bullish mood, as it expects to make a staggering ¥1,240 billion ($12 billion) in revenue for the fiscal year as a whole, with an operating profit of ¥25 billion ($243 million). Somewhere, deep in the recesses of Sony’s headquarters, gaffer Kaz Hirai is smiling for the first time in two years.

[via sony.net, gamesindustry.biz]

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User Comments (57)

THIS_SITE_SUCKS

#2

THIS_SITE_SUCKS said:

The PlayStation brand is the only thing Sony have going for them at the moment. Momentum is high but they need to watch out. I'm starting to really regret buying a PS4 and no longer see PS+ as a premium must have service. I find the EA - Microsoft pair up very interesting and can see me buying an Xbox One very soon.

Mrskinner

#3

Mrskinner said:

This is the reason why Sony won't change the way PS+ is run lol

Congrats to Kaz

Punished_Boss_84

#4

Punished_Boss_84 said:

PlayStation's Wonderbook of victories. Powers have increased compared to last quarter... Enough Sly puns. They have done well, back to profitable. Let's hope they can stay in that area and hope they invest in areas people on the net are complaining about.

I think Kaz's is doing more than smiling...
Untitled

Sanquine

#5

Sanquine said:

I don't care about the ps4 whooping X1 sales.. I do care about Sony being back in black ( profit baby!)

Mrskinner

#6

Mrskinner said:

@voodoo341 That's cool. I do not regret buying my PS4, I think the console is great, but I will be buying an XBone at some point as that has always been my plan anyway. I did the same with PS3 and 360. I like to have a choice of all exclusives

get2sammybAdmin

#8

get2sammyb said:

@voodoo341 Not 100 per cent true actually. Sony as a whole (not just PlayStation) did pretty well this quarter. Shame you're disappointed with your PS4, though. I really love mine, though can appreciate there are areas where Sony needs to improve the experience.

Carl-G

#10

Carl-G said:

Excellent News :P Happy about the PS4 kicking X1's ass :D but more happy for SONY being in the black now ;) KING KAZ i bow before you...

BertoFlyingFox

#12

BertoFlyingFox said:

Hmmm, I remember Sony projecting their next fiscal year will have operating losses that'll put the company back in the red. This Q1 report is showing a different picture, which is good. Hopefully that momentum holds and by end of this fiscal year there's nothing but profit earnings that Sony has to report.

I'm also hoping this helps them push the Vita library, PS4 library, and PS+ membership hard throughout 2015. While I enjoy my PS4, I feel it's capable of more. And the poor Vita could use some color, it's looking like it needs life-support.

get2sammybAdmin

#16

get2sammyb said:

@BertoFlyingFox This is specifically for the PlayStation business. I think they're projecting losses for the company as a whole, but I haven't looked too deeply into that yet. Will probably do a separate article on the full company's outlook.

RidingMower

#18

RidingMower said:

I am loving my PS4 and want to get another one. Getting the white destiny bundle. Going to soup it up.

N711

#19

N711 said:

3 sold to 1 shipped. Its started to look really bad for the console that 'everyone says they got the best exclusives' tbh

Shaolin

#20

Shaolin said:

Ahh man, Sammy did you have to go and mention Xbox? Those are fantastic PS4 sales figures for Sony and they are totally impressive in their own right.

I'm a PlayStation only gamer and that's why I come to this site but I keep hearing about Xbox this and Xbox that. I'd rather hear more about Sony this and PlayStation that.

If you must insist on bringing Xbox into the conversation (and clearly I'd rather you didn't) then at least give Xbox the kudos they deserve for selling the most software and seeing as the real money in this industry is made from games rather than loss-leading console hardware sales then technically Xbox is the real winner? But that's a conversation I'd rather we didn't have #StopComparingJustEnjoyPS4

N711

#21

N711 said:

@Shaolin if I may I find the sales comparison absolutely relevant in an article about sales.. I dont know why you find it embarrassing. I mean if Xbox sold 3 x more than PS Im sure Sammy would mention it and that would be relevant too

Cyrso

#23

Cyrso said:

@voodoo341

Not sure if serious, but if you actually looked up the quarterly report, then you'd realize the 'gaming & network services' division was actually the second worst performing segment. (in terms of profit)

The profit margins of console hardware industry are known to be extremely low, notice the huge revenue, but the comparatively low profit.

Sorry to hear that you regretted your PS4 purchase by the way. Personally I have absolutely no desire for a PS4 (yet), just bought a Vita and like it a lot and apart from that I'm satisfied with PS3 & PC, so I can understand that if you're coming from platforms like those, saturated with software, and buying a new platform that is only starting to build up a library of games. But that's how it goes as an early adopter.

LDXD

#24

LDXD said:

@voodoo341 that's actually the opposite of how I see it
After what Microsoft tried to do making the x1 a huge drm machine then trying to advertise it like some kinda cable box with a stupid camera and voice activation for $100 more really killed it for me and everyone else I know in my personal life including three very close people I know who were huge Xbox fan boys before all this and the fact that EA now has a strong relationship with them is just icing on the cake and i cant help but feel that alot of people feel this way it kinda shows this is what happends when you try and screw people over they made their bed now they can sleep in it both of them together

Dohv

#25

Dohv said:

@voodoo341 I have both and every time I actually use my XB1 I realize just how much better the PS4.

-PS4 has a way better and faster UI
-XB1 games take 40 minutes to install while the same game on PS4 takes 1 minute at the most to install
-The XB1 controller feels like a huge step back from the 360 controller, while the dualshock 4 feels like heaven.

Just to name a few, but I do think it's best to own both consoles, it's just the PS4 is overall better for me. But both are great consoles and have a lot of potential, I don't regret buying them at all a console is a long term investment not a short term one.

I think when it's all said and done the PS4 will end up replacing the PS2 as the best console of all time.

Really glad to see Sony doing good. They make the best products in my opinion with Playstation, Bravia TV's, and Xperia Z phones. Now get us more exclusives Sony.

GameAce

#26

GameAce said:

This is good news for Sony. There's been a lot of it since the release of the PS4. Sony's stock is still stuck in "junk" status as I'm sure they wish they could transfer their success with the PS4over to the rest of their conglomerate. But let's not forget that MS pretty much forked over this console generation, at least the beginning of it, with their shenanigans about digital games, always online, and pumping the price up $100 to include the Kinect no one liked last cycle. Those decisions really turned me off of the idea of purchasing a Xbox One at launch. My PS4, Vita, Wii U, and PC is enough to keep me more than occupied for now.

THIS_SITE_SUCKS

#27

THIS_SITE_SUCKS said:

@Cyrso Actually at you look at their report they owe as much to the weak Japanese exchange rate and selling off assets for their profits as do they to anything they make. Sony now only lead the market in gaming. I had a Vita and sold it. It's poorly supported and Sony. The number of remakes and indies on the PS4 is becoming an issue for many owners. Sony are far from out of the woods so don't believe the hype from reports on sites like this.

eLarkos

#28

eLarkos said:

@Shaolin Sammy mentioned Xbox statistics which directly related to the topic, a Sony centred article - Sony currently selling the most consoles in the industry.

Then you say that you don't want him to mention Xbox at all, clearly not understanding that statistics without context are simply numbers. The article would be pointless without the relevant xbox sales.
Then you go and say 'well if you are going to mention xbox you may as well mention software sales'. - as you stated, Xbox sold the most software. This article has nothing to do about software because Sony isn't leading that category.

Would you like the author to write articles about categories that Sony is winning in and only focus on Sony products? (I think you do because you clearly stated that) or would you like the author of a Sony centric site (unintended alliteration FTW) to include additional information about Xbox where Sony isn't winning?

Your comment was completely contradictory.

Kohaku

#29

Kohaku said:

@Dohv

That the PS4 controller feels like heaven is not that strange. Ever tried to game with your PS3 after playing some hours with a PS4? I like the controller of the Xbox One as much as the controller from the PS4. And at the moment I love the Xbox One itself also more then the PS4 beacuase the Xbox has Forza 5 and the PS4 has uhmmmm, no racing game at all.

HulkSmash34

#30

HulkSmash34 said:

@tulaib_100 And you know whats even crazier, is that 1.1 million number is the number of Xbox Ones that were shipped to stores to sell not sold. So imagine how much less Xbox One only sold to consumers because their have been reports many times that the Xbox One could not sell off the shelves from their retailers, and Sony did so imagine how many systems Sony shipped to their retailers.

molee94

#31

molee94 said:

@voodoo341 i really now believe sony knew all the launch titles wouldn't be ready for launch just to get us to buy the ps4. All the day titles were delayed till this year and iv'e regretted buying a ps4 so soon id have waited till this year november to buy one if i knew there would be no games.

Cyrso

#32

Cyrso said:

@voodoo341

  • You're right, but you aren't really refuting my point either. Exchange rate is applicable for every division that has international branches, so I don't know how that relates to my point. Movies, semiconductors, imaging and especially financial services are all higher than gaming. So I don't see how your comment "PlayStation brand is the only thing Sony have going for them at the moment" makes any sense.
  • About PSVita/PS4. I can judge for myself, thank you. And I have zero problems with indies... They aren't really competing with AAA, especially on consoles. So if they're only complementary to AAA games on console then what's the issue..? Do you think that just because there are thousands of indie games on Steam, that it means that I'm mad because they're coming at the expense of AAA games?? No. The economics of game development and publishing don't work like that. Indies and AAA games are only complementary to each other in my opinion, so I'd say keep 'em coming, especially if they're good.. I love me some good indie games..

And personally I'm enjoying my Vita just fine (so far at least, I'll see how it goes with longevity), and I'm kinda impressed with some of its features. Seemed like a much better purchase than PS4 at this point if you were still gaming on PC & PS3 anyway. With that said, I have to say there are some very interesting PS4 games coming in 2015 that might sway me, but for now I don't need one at all.

And I don't get your point about remakes becoming "an issue" either.. There's only one remake on PS4 as far as I can tell which is TLOU Remastered. (which is a game I still haven't bought on PS3 despite all the hype :c). What's the issue if Naughty Dog was making that alongside developing a new Uncharted game? Is it coming at the expense of Naughty Dog's Uncharted 4 or something? No, it seems to be only complementary alongside new games as far as I can tell, so what's the issue? Do the people who complain about remakes think game developers should only make games that cater specifically to them.? Well, the industry doesn't work like that As a consumer you have the choice to buy whatever you want so "vote with your wallet" and move along, that would be my advice to the complainers. But complaining just because some people enjoy things you don't like is a stupid thing to do imo.

Just my two cents. :)

Edit: re-reading last paragraph, it might sound a bit bitter and douchey, I apologize for that, but I just wanted to say that I don't really get the issue. Maybe it's because I haven't personally invested in getting a PS4. It seemed obvious to me that as an early adopter you can't expect to have a big library right at your disposal during the first months.

HulkSmash34

#33

HulkSmash34 said:

I agree on everything that Cyrso said. I haven't played any indie games, but I can't wait to try them. And we should all be very patient on our PS4 system because the good games will arrive very soon to us. We just have to be patient though as some of us are becoming frustrated with the amount of time that's taking for games to come out for the PS4. And like the guy above said TLOU is the only remake for the PS4. Though I still don't have TLOU for the PS4 and I should because it also has an extra DLC for us compared to the TLOU that I bought last year for the PS3. And by the Cyrso TLOU is an awesome game try to get it first before getting another game.

Though I do believe that we should all pressure Sony to give us more features and the ones that they especially promised us.

ReigningSemtex

#34

ReigningSemtex said:

Good on them I think they have been impressive lately reassuring people they are for gamers and fairly regular sales on Ps store i like sony's image recently. I could have a few moans here and there but when all is said and done the second I get in from work I am powering up my ps4 and playing The last of us all night tonight. I am glad I got ps4 before xbox one.

THIS_SITE_SUCKS

#35

THIS_SITE_SUCKS said:

@Cyrso How did I not refute your point? Sony returned to profit based on the Japanese exchange rate and selling off assets. The Playstation is the only product that has shown any degree of growth. Sony are no longer market leaders in any other sector. Their TV's are nothing special, they've already dropped out of the PC market and their mobile phones failed to have any impact on market share. They're struggling to find a new cash cow.

If you're happy with a Vita then good for you but many others were not. You're lucky if you're happy with indies. Sony will serve you well. As for remakes there's a lot more than just TLOU! And with other games like Journey and Unfinished Swan incoming I'd have kept my PS3 if I wanted to play PS3 games. At least I bought a PS4 before giving an opinion on it. If you don't like it you're more than welcome not to read it. I wouldn't want you to look stupid complaining about people complaining.

Cyrso

#36

Cyrso said:

@voodoo341

Because your original comment "PlayStation is the only thing Sony have going for them" is still factually wrong when you look at the revenue and profit of each division?

Or were you just talking about having highest marketshare in a certain sector when you said that? In that case you could be right, but of course, a company doesn't need to be market leader just to have a sustainable and profitable business, (there wouldn't be many companies on earth if that would be the case..).

I have no idea about which Sony divisions have shown growth and what not and I don't care, it's none of my business, it's Sony's business.

I just briefly took a look at that quarterly report to see if what you said was true (because it sounded surprising), and it turned out that when you look at revenue and profit, it's factually wrong. Marketshare doesn't necessarily translate 1:1 with revenue and profit.

And I have absolutely no experience with Sony TV's and I don't care. (All I know is that from a Dutch tech site I follow, is that the Sony TV's are generally praised for low input lag and good picture quality, but again zero experience with Sony TV's myself). But what's the point you're trying to make here?

By the way, isn't Sony market leader in the camera sensors business? Not that I care, I just come here on this site to see some PlayStation stuff every now and then..

See my previous reply for the stuff about indies and remakes, I stand by my point that there's nothing wrong with complementary stuff like that.

Anyway, have a good day, hope we can put this discussion rest, I don't really disagree with what you said, but it just seems like you're talking to wrong guy. I was just pointing out that the some other divisions clearly show substantially more profit than PlayStation which I disagreed with your comment about PlayStation being the only thing that Sony has going for them.

:)

THIS_SITE_SUCKS

#37

THIS_SITE_SUCKS said:

@Cyrso Look if you think a company is healthy because it made a profit selling off assets and a bit of luck in the Yen exchange rate despite having only one product showing any meaningful real growth then fair play to you. All other sectors for Sony are in decline. If you don't see the problem with that then fair enough. As for your last point, if you owned a PS4 and knew something about it you'd know indies and remakes are not complementary to AAA games on the PS4. It's the other way about.

Shaolin

#38

Shaolin said:

@N711 Please tell me that you realise an article about PS4 sales doesn't have to be about Xbox sales. The two are not necessarily mutually inclusive.

Shaolin

#39

Shaolin said:

@XFsWorld Well Sony is competing with WiiU, Ouya, etc. so you think that just because they're competing that it's relevant? Sony's figures would still be good whether Xbox existed or not - that's relevant too.

N711

#40

N711 said:

@Shaolin I know what your trying to say and I understand that but it would be naive to think people dont want that kind of information which completely makes sense to me.
I agree there was a few debatable posts like the sniper Elite looking bad on Xbone. but this one post would not give the real news which is PS sells 3 to 1 xbox not hiding from the fact people want to know

Shaolin

#41

Shaolin said:

@eLarkos What are you wittering on about??

I merely put forward the notion that it's entirely possible to celebrate Sony's figures without having to always bring Xbox into it. In fact, it can actually portray Sony as only doing well when Xbox isn't like as if it's some sort of zero sum game. PlayStation is great on it's own terms, nothing to do with Xbox sales.

If you knew how to read my comment properly then you'd know it wasn't contradictory because I was just saying I'd rather not read about Xbox but if I must, if I absolutely must read about it then some balanced reporting would be good. Let's not make out that this silly 3-1 sales ratio is worth putting forward at the exclusion of other (perhaps more) important indicators such as the afore mentioned software sales. Where's the contradiction in that?

Shaolin

#42

Shaolin said:

@N711 Yes you are right, there definitely are people who want to hear it like that. But I don't and so I was making my voice heard on it.

As I say, I'm a longtime PlayStation only gamer and I'm passionate about our community and I've watched over time as more and more smack-talking fanboys have joined our once chilled-out ranks. Some of those guys are more obsessed with Xbox sales figures than they are about the gaming and I just would rather not always have to read articles written in a way that fans those flames. My own opinion is that this article didn't need to make the mention of Xbox and perhaps would have even made it a cut above.

N711

#43

N711 said:

@Shaolin The thing is this kind of news is everywhere else so I dont find it weird to see mentions of the competition on Pushsquare and tbh I am one of those who want to know.. well because why not XD
While Im here Im surprised nobody mentioned that those sells include the Xbox kineckt less launch where M$ was bragging they sells went double and I find the result here a bit baffling.
yea being a bit not fanboy cos I dont like that term but something like that atm ;)

Mrskinner

#44

Mrskinner said:

@voodoo341 I really think you have the wrong console. All I have seen you do on the boards is complain about sony which is cool if that's your thing. But maybe you would be better off with an xbone if you dislike sony so much?

Shaolin

#46

Shaolin said:

@N711 Yes it certainly is everywhere else. No worries, I don't consider you to be one of the fanboys I was talking about.

AD-80

#47

AD-80 said:

@voodoo341 The PS4 just came out - you can't expect a slew of AAA titles when the system isn't even 1 year old yet. If the PS3 had PS Plus when it first came out - it would be much around the same situation. 2015 will show you wealth for your money spent - mark my words.

eLarkos

#48

eLarkos said:

@Shaolin That they are reporting on Playstation success! Just like you asked. Its not necessarily balanced reporting at all. You are the one not wanting xbox mentioned. To then go and say they should mention other xbox results to make it balanced reporting is completely contradictory. Either its one sided sony talk or its balanced reporting. Which one do you want?

Oh and by the way, its absolutely necessary to include the competitions results to provide context. Pretty hard to celebrate something if you have no idea if its good or not.

Heres a really cool statistic for you: Im really good at this game I just downloaded. Im at level 13!!! Super amazing huh?

You're the only one wittering on here.

Gamer83

#49

Gamer83 said:

@Shaolin

To be fair, the Xbox community isn't much better. I'm still an Xbox fan eventhough I haven't bought the Xbox One yet, but the 'Xbots' that currently fill youtube with their bullsh*t lies and propaganda, and frankly downright stupidity is utterly embarrassing. Unfortunately because you have dipsh*ts like that, you're going to get the same thing on the Sony side because people want to defend their brand of choice. I also don't think the PlayStation fanbase was ever chill. Like every fanbase, you have the normal people who enjoy what the product offers while still not being idiotic enough to pledge allegiance to a giant corporation, but then you have the morons who are the complete opposite and will go out of their way to defend their corporate mother even when it clearly f's up like with what happened to PSN back in 2011. There were actually idiots defending Sony over how that whole thing was handled.

FullbringIchigo

#50

FullbringIchigo said:

@Mrskinner yeah same here got my ps4 at launch and not regretted it and not long picked up an xbox one ( I had to after seeing the Halo Master Chief Collection) I got the kinect version with Titanfall and Forza 5 for £300 off my brother, and he only used it once so it's basicaly brand new :-)

bbq_boy

#52

bbq_boy said:

@voodoo341 check out this guys comment history. Does this person seriously own a playstation product? Cos 99% of his comments are anti-playstation. Why not just get a Xbox and be happy with it?! The playstation brand is successful. Fact. The ps+ service is winning the hearts of gamers. Fact. If playstation or ps+ really suck then why is it doing profitably well and consumers flocking to buy the machines? You want to talk failure? Try nvidia shield. Microsoft surface. Xbox kinnect. Xbox 'The ultimate so-called all it can do entertainment hub'. Try why can't Xbox one do 1080p 60fps comfortably. Try why is Xbox one same price as ps4 but is weaker in DDR ram and graphical power. Want a moan? Try them instead cos they are proper moans/disappointment. Bet you that ps4 will be most sort after console at Xmas. Expect huge ps4 growth in 2015 when the BIG triple AAAs come out. Fact. It's only been 10 months since ps4 launched.... that's not even a full year! If you don't like positive facts/momentum/good news about playstation i highly suggest you get a Xbox one. You'd do well in that camp matey. Plenty to moan about there :)

THIS_SITE_SUCKS

#53

THIS_SITE_SUCKS said:

@bbq_boy get your facts right... I'm anti Sony. The Playstation brand almost destroyed Sony with it's third console launch. PS+ service isn't winning anything these days. Want to talk failure... try PS Vita.. PS Move.. Bluray.. 3D.. secure online etc. Run along child.

Shaolin

#54

Shaolin said:

@eLarkos Umm I think I'm going to have to give up now on explaining it to you any more because either you can't grasp the concept or you're attempting a deliberate wind up.

Okay, I'll try one last time - you rightly picked up on the fact that I don't want to hear about Xbox BUT IF I HAVE TO (that bit in caps seems to be the bit that you can't compute) in that case I want a fair and balanced comparison. In this example, if we must hear about Xbox (and I would rather not) then why focus on one aspect such as hardware sales as some sort of smug win? Why not include software sales in the comparison and I suspect that's because you'd find that Sony wasn't getting such an easy win on that one. It's all pointless to me because I'm interested in the games but just out of curiosity in your fanboyish console winning-losing dichotomy who is it that wins, the one who sells more loss-leading hardware or the one who makes more money overall?

By the way, that's a bad analogy you're using when you say, "Im really good at this game I just downloaded. Im at level 13!!! Super amazing huh?" because you haven't said what the game is. If you had said what game it is then no I wouldn't necessarily need to compare it with another player in order to determine whether you're any good or not.

In short, if you struggle to assess that Sony has done really well for selling multiple millions of PS4s without having to know how many Xboxes have sold, well then there's no hope for you because you're dumber than you sound.

And you're right, I am wittering but you seem to need to use my words to say so ;) Wittering over from me.

eLarkos

#55

eLarkos said:

@Shaolin. You repeated yourself. Read my comment again (and again).

My analogy is spot on. You want to know the game? How would knowing the game help you? Because now you know what other scores are? - Yea thought so. Context. Its required.

Im so far from a console fan boy its not funny. Dont know why you said that. I haven't been defending Sony or anything.

You just continue to Wittradict yourself. (It's a new word ;) )

Shaolin

#56

Shaolin said:

@Gamer83 Yes you're right about the Xbox fanboys being no better. I haven't really ever participated in that community but if I did I'd be sure to call out anything out of whack. I'll always call out unfairness or bias whenever and wherever I see it - I'd feel like I was a willing participant to the fakery if I didn't.

I've come to the conclusion that there are decent chilled out gamers and there are silly fanboy gamers, and it really is just as simple as that. Most of the time those fanboys are so misguided that whichever camp they claim to be in (Xbox, PS, etc.) they undoubtedly fell into it totally by accident although they'd swear blind it was because of this or that intellectual reason - yeah right!

Therefore I can't speak for any other gaming communities but all I know is that in the run up to and ever since these latest-gen console have been released there have been a hell of a lot of trained chimpanzee fanboys with some kind of little-guy-syndrome poisoning the PlayStation community much worse than before. Articles like this that claim a very selective win over Xbox and only tell one part of the story seem to bring them all gleefully out of the woodwork and that's why I personally don't approve.

Shaolin

#57

Shaolin said:

@eLarkos Ooooh looks like I touched a raw nerve there lol! Look, nobody says that context isn't required but you seem to think it's required every single time you play your game. Historical context is good enough, we don't need to know Xbox figures every single time just in order to determine whether Sony has done well and THAT is my point.

Okay now I'm done because you're just spouting words and some of them are mine (you even had to copy-repeat my smiley for goodness sake) and in general I call time when it feels like I'm talking to myself because it's pretty much as pointless as conversing with you right now. I really am rooting for you though to bring something better than that to the debate next time.

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