@GADG3Tx87 " a proper one though, not a fake one that's also on PC" when will people get it through their heads that Microsoft no longer considers pc and console to separate devices? It's the same thing to them and you can play it in either place you're still playing it in their ecosystem and that's all they care about now.
Console exclusive is an archaic mindset. Platform exclusive is the right way to think about users.
Why limit yourself to only those that can and will buy a specific box when you can sell the same game to anyone and make just as much?
10 years from now I'm sure the rest of you will have caught on. Just like all those idiots still investing in blockbuster when redbox/Netflix showed up.
@MarcG420 one word blu-ray many many many systems were sold as a cheap alternative for a Blu ray player 1st and a game console second.
Microsoft biggest mistake was not having a next gen disc format ready to go with their launch if they did we all might be using HD-DVD instead of Bluray
@JJ2 so they editing comments now? Is it really come to this level of defensiveness? Just because Microsoft has really stepped up their game and are actually coming to fight this time?
I don't think anyone on MS side has said anything but that Microsoft is really going to deliver a next gen powerful console with real performance.
And in comparison to what Sony has done they are not wrong they have the power upper hand.
4k/30 on Xbox series x OK not best but better than 1440(or less) /30.
I personally never thought in a million years that Xbox will outsell Sony full stop. It won't happen its never happened.
But what I do think will be true is them delivering the real performance people are looking for in a next gen system (at least in regards to being the most powerful of the 2).
I won't be buying an Xbox (as I don't have to I have a pc that outperforms both today and still I'm set to install a 10900k this week and a next gen ampere gpu (3080 ti) by the time these systems launch.
The ps5 MAY get a buy but I still think between the two ecosystems Microsoft is doing way more that's positive for the consumer. And again because they give me the freedom I'll support them (and have been) using my pc that they let me use to play games within their platforms.
All while having much higher performance than either of these fixed boxes can.
Sony fanboys are upset and lashing out not because Microsoft is going to "beat them" it's because Microsoft is making their blind faith in Sony make them look foolish.
It's a hard pill to swallow. Sony should do better for their clients and offer much more of what Microsoft is doing for them.
Microsofts moves make everything better for the industry as a whole and hopefully they can put enough pressure on Sony to keep pushing them to tear down their walls and outdated models.
@Zach_99 Zach my boy I'm afraid to tell you this hit you "own" nothing when it comes to your games and your ability to access use them is directly tied to services that they can for any reason deny you at any time your false comfort in "owning" a game is just a scam to make you comfortable in giving over your money.
I myself rather take my gut punch from someone who just straight up tells me instead of trying to hide it behind some false idea of ownership.
I said before I WISH I COULD HAVE PAID A FRACTION OF THE COST AND ONLY HAD ACCESS TO THE GAMES FOR THE WEEKEND OR SO I WAS ACTUALLY PLAYING IT!
$1 to play forza horizon 3 sure! $2 dollars to learn sea of thieves isn't for me? Better than paying $60! Getting all the games I mentioned before plus a dozen or so more I've played all for the flat $180 I paid for game pass for 3 years (not to mention I get every upcoming Xbox series x game included in that til October 2022)
Um hell yea! Best deal ever!
I don't own my games you don't own your games at this point I'm all passed the idea of trying to pretend like I do.
It why I refuse to buy digital on Playstation now it's a waste of money for something I could still lose in a moment of Sony denies my access to my account (which is probably now almost as old as you and has 100+ games from over 15 years)
It's not mine it's Sonys and they let me have access. That's it!
I'd rather give 10% of the same money to Microsoft and get just as much (if not more out of their games) because again Sonys games are basically 1 weekend or so games where at least with Microsoft titles I've been hooked on it was more like a month or 2 with friends (depending on how long their trial was for).
Microsofts services "users" isn't limited to just their console owners and soon enough the measure of success won't be with how many consoles youve sold but how many people are part of your ecosystem.
You saw the article I linked you over 10 million xbox game pass members and growing that's at least 50 million a month or 1.2 billion a year and it's just going to keep going up and the more that join the more they make.
It's like a gym membership many pay only some use and gym gets to keep the money. The people who go benefit just fine and the people who don't well they at least know they have the option and to many that's enough to make or worth paying for.
Same with Netflix and I can still remember the day when they had just hit 1 million users and Microsoft and game pass is already at 10 million.
Imagine where they'll be in a decade.
2010 Netflix 7.7 million
2020 Netflix 167 million
There's also almost 1 billion windows 10 users and each and everyone is just a couple clicks from being a paid Xbox services member.
Also I'm not going to continue going back and forth with a kid like yourself who has only grown up in a world where Sony is and has always been THE console (you know nothing of the real "console wars" that happened before you left your daddy's... Ahm)
Like they say those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.
And Darwin tells us those who fail to adapt are made irrelevant and eventually extinct.
Ask commodore atari 3DO and Sega is (what's left of them) plus many many more or what's left of them.
But no you keep being a blind fanboy and walk right off that ledge with em we know you'd never dare question when they tell you to.
@Zach_99 as far as power talk? It was Sony who started throwing tflops around and talking about "real" HD gaming and such during the early days of ps4/Xbox one. It's funny to see how NOW they as well as fanboys like yourselves want to act like a it doesn't get you real butt hurt to keep hearing about how you're not the most powerful next gen console.
I had avoided even discussing these numbers because I know it's really arbitrary but to hear some fan boy start throwing around claims of xbox trying to claim some "superiority" title when it was you and your company who started the talk of such things to begin with... It's easy to brag about something that doesn't really matter THAT much when you know you'll come out on top anyway but it stings when it's the other way around and why so many of you are determined to try and dispell the thought completely (what?before it ACTUALLY has an influence?) lol
@Zach_99 Their are a lot more I can't think of but I know I spent more time with these titles than the one and done nature of many of the Sony games I played.
They were literally a weekend or 3 day affair amd then it was over I might as well have sold the game off (if I actually could being digital makes that impossible).
I started to wisen up towards the of this gen and stopped buying digital because of this and now I have actually played the last couple games (death stranding final fantasy vii) on disc just so I could sell em off when I was done.
Sony does amazing single player one and done stories but other than that I can't find any reason to use them (like I literally don't even use their controller when playing ps4, I use an Xbox elite) and unlike Microsoft who has found ways to make a pc focused guy like me pay attention Sony has been stubborn the whole time (and only most recently have they started to open up some which is great).
I just need them to do more and until they do ill always vote Microsoft.
Once I can happily support both platforms through their respective platforms but play my games on my much better hardware I'll keep singing the praises of Microsoft. . Once they do actually turn it around and deliver top notch game of the year type games that no one can deny well.... It's gonna be a bad day to be stuck in the past Sony.
@Zach_99 is right and what you're too thick to get is both brands have "coasted" on franchises plenty and though halo has been down the last couple times it was up for a while too and just like with your God of War mention games that start high and fall can have a resurgence and which after they can and do fall again sometimes.
It's all uos and downs for decades now. But I know you were probably still suckling on your mom (born in 99?) when the Xbox came to be but for the better part of a decade from there the games that were making the news and crushing records were typically on Xbox or Xbox focused. Sony obviously was the one people were talking about before that and they became the one people talked about after...
Again maybe a little slower.....
Success comes in waves and if you think that just because you did in the past you'll Co tin to do so in the future....
You will fail to live up to your potential!
I'm no fortune teller I can't see the future but what I can do is judge where platforms are focused and where they are headed Sony is marching down that same worn down road Microsoft is flying a freaking spaceship in comparison.
I want to support the company that is forward thinking and the one focused on ME, the gamer!
Everything Microsoft does is for us Sony only joins in if forced.
Sony doesn't put you first or me first or anyone but Sony. Microsoft just wants us all the have the best experiences we can wherever that is. And I'm all about that.
I'll probably never own and Xbox series x... You know why? Cause Microsoft won't force me to buy one to participate. They'll let me take my much more powerful pc and use that to basically do anything some locked down box could ever do. And because of this I'm all paid up for 3 YEARS ($180) for their game pass ultimate service. I'd be willing to give Sony something similar but sadly they arent going to do that they are going to force me to spend another $500+ this year on a box I'll play maybe 2-3 games a year on. For the life of my ps4/pro it's been about the same (or even less) and at the end of my time with the generation I'm not sure if it was worth it. The games were good but is it worth (2) console purchases plus them dragging me on to psn when I actually wanted to play the 1 or 2 titles I'd play that year?
Ive played maybe what 6 or 7 "exclusives" that were even worth playing in the whole generation. Say 10 games over 7 years at $60 a game ($600)+ they got atleast 2 years of psn out of me ($100)+ the consoles themselves ($400)+($500)
$1600+ to play 10 games
Even if they were really good (and some definitely were) I don't know if it's really justified.
Off my "investment" in game pass ultimate I've had the chance to play as many games (maybe more) and truth be told I had as much fun or more with many of them...
Forza horizon 3 and 4 both great fun with my friends (they also got to jump on and play for like $1 trials) Gears of War 4 (good) for and 5 (great) Outerworlds (very solid) Metro exodus (excellent entry) Cuphead (way different than my normal tough as nails but a lot of fun)
@Zach_99 and again it's stuff like this that I'm talking about. Who's got the most outdated / expensive boxes growing more and more outdated isn't the future.
I bet blockbuster and others like it didn't think it was a big deal either when Netflix started shipping dvds at a flat monthly fee or when they started streaming some real "basic and boring" streaming content.
Like I've been saying TIMES CHANGE and what maybe your weren't around for is the top dawg doesn't ALWAYS stay on top.
If you've only been gaming since Sony you might not understand that but I've been around a long time and I've seen the "new hotness" come and go. The one thing I'm always about is what's coming up next...
I stay out in front it's why I been ray tracing since 2018 and Netflix user long before they even had an ad to entice you to join.
I watch the world and I know when something game changing is mounting.
@cali_kush70 a bunch of those "exclusives" and are or have already coming to pc so I wouldn't call them "exclusives" maybe "Sony console exclusives" but just like with Xbox they aren't a reason in and of themselves that you must own a ps4.
@Zach_99 But any day im giving the choice of where to play a game if it's not 100% exclusive to ps4 I AIN'T PLAYING IT THERE. I'll take a game on Xbox live and Microsoft OS any day over the same on Sony and psn.
It's why I an owner of a ps4 pro and 0 Xbox currently have 3 years of Xbox game pass ultimate paid for through 2022 and don't even subscribe to psn+. Microsoft is killing it in the software and services and that's where the real money is made not in having 5je #1 worldwide hardware sales (remember hardware barely has profits if not actual losses in some cases).
At the end of the day I don't care who "wins" I've never been that type of fanboy. I typically and historically have owned ALL major gaming consoles going back to snes and genesis (I've in fact owned all of them since) I also game on a pc that blows all of them including these new consoles out of the water so I don't need to justify my stance because it's the only position I can speak from.
I come from a middle ground owner of everything and supporter of just "greatness" and to me ever since Sony has been taking the stick to Microsoft in 2013 they've done nothing but make Microsoft become my favorite gaming company putting the gamer 1st and delivering a stellar service today.
The games haven't fully come (but there were still plenty to justify my game pass ultimate sub) and I'm sure more and better are to follow (I hope) but I can call it fair and unbiased as someone who plays (and pays) for all of em.
Microsoft is the one doing things that put us gamers 1st and with the best services out there today.
And yes I know I wrote a book too so thanks for getting me so worked up lol!
PS - VR
I'm currently playing half life alyx (the first game I've ever said was a must play for vr) on a Microsoft headset whether you realize it or not Microsoft is waist deep in vr fine tuning it where it's meant to be tuned on pc. And when it's finally fully ready and some thing most should be looking at its only a software update away from being fully compatible with their gaming console.
They know it's something to being pursuing and they are just in a (again) much more consumer friendly (read not half baked) way.
@Zach_99 also read a little more of you manifesto and 1. Multiple games throughout Sonys history were marketed as "halo killers" for over a decade Sony had 0 fps worth playing that wasnt multiplat. 2. Microsoft isn't even playing the "game" most of you Sony fanboys think it's still all about. They're a "service first" company moving towards a all access /streaming future with their hands in all the important tech of tomorrow (why do you think Sony has to partner with them for cloud?) and making "the #1 selling hardware worldwide" isn't even the play for them anymore they were never going to win that battle amd honestly I never cared if they did.
Microsoft is a US company and JP doesn't go for outside JP gaming never have and never will. But what micorosft can and has done in the past is pay attention to their target audience (and again not as of now but in the past) delivered them the best games for them in the best experience with the best infrastructure. I could care less if the rest of the world hates us US gamers and our way of gaming but I DON'T and that's all that matters. It just so happens that this gen Sony really delivered the games I wanted to play but I still find their software and networking to be abhorrent and would take a xbox live enabled Xbox one s over a ps4 and it's terrible outdated laggy software. I try to do one thing with a game running and the whole system can freeze for seconds at a time. And I have a pro even not a base I'd hate to see that.
What again I think your missing is that many of us gamers couldn't care less about a popularity contest and only care about 2 things - the games (obviously) and the experience delivered around those games by the hardware/software delivering them.
I give you 100% that Sony had the better games over the last 5 to 7 years hands down. I'll even give you that their upcoming games have a much better chance to be good (a chance remember they can still screw them up).
@Zach_99 judging by your massive tirade above theres little no point in even saying this but you missed the point of my original reply completely. I only got about half way through your walk down Sonys hall of fame before I finally gave up and saw you had no real point.
I never said anything about the dozen or more other games you mentioned here because they're weren't part nod your original post. I spoke to the ones you listed and pointed out that only one of those (horizon zero dawn) was new ip. You also then supposedly called me out by saying "what about herizon zero dawn?" like did you even read what I said?
Again I don't want to go back and forth with your and your encyclopedia of Sony highlights but the point I was making there was a time when Microsofts titles were the hottest in the planet and barely anyone cared about something like uncharted 1 or a failed "halo killer" like resistance fall of man.
The WHOLE point was TIMES CHANGE and even I partook of Sony and their great games this gen but I also wanted nothing to do with them a decade or so ago when it was (at the time) all about Microsoft and their games for me and many others. I don't hate Sony or their games amd think they've made plenty of classics this gen but it's also a lot of rereading (just like Microsoft) and it only take a few small mistakes to take the titles from "the new hotness" to "tired and played out".
Sony needs to not get comfortable (something Microsoft definitely did) and if the word on the street about last of us 2 is anything to go by they may already be slipping.
It's a quick slide from greatest to mediocre (heck Sony has done that multiple times in their life already) and Microsoft is taking extra care to watch where they step right now.
@Zach_99 is of all the games you named only one is original new ip. Several are just literally remakes of ps3 or PS2 games and another is just ANOTHER in a long line of licensed games.
Sony isnt really just blowing up with new original ip either is all I'm saying.
They're games have been great but many of them are based on games that in the past I gave 0 thought or if I did try them they were mediocre at best (uncharted).
At the end of the day someone HAS to have the games that are more popular t and I can remember a time when every franchise Microsoft was putting out DOMINATED and anything Sony did was just felt as a rip off that did it way worse.
Halo 1, 2, 3 or Gears of War 1,2,3 / Killzone 1 or resistance fall of man?
Anyone's "new hotness" can easily become "old and tired" it just remember that!
If Microsoft has done any of this right we have 0 clue what amazing games they are brining and won't even be able to call them that to long after we've been playing them.
Everyone's problem with these mock up articles isn't that they exist (well yes at this point its this too to some degree) but it's because of the clickbait and the fact that now for like the 10th time an article has fooled me into clicking on an article by not exactly telling me it's just some mock up by some fanboy.
If you maybe spelled it out up front instead of after the rss break maybe as many wouldn't be pissed when they end up here to see yet another let's go digital crappy render.
I did re-read the title of your article and now see you used "mockup" in the title bitbi guess it's just now after the 10th one your brain goes on autopilot hoping it's actually something useful (and sorta knowing it won't be).
Just maybe cut back on them or just spell it out VERY CLEARLY.
@soy I personally always turn mine off this way as I find the menus in the Playstation 4 to be a lag fest almost to the point it feels locked up. I leave my system on for media and other such things and this battery already needs to get charged 4x as often as my rechargeables in the elite so I keep it off as much as possible.
@JohnKarnes the idea of needing a whole nother controller when your battery is drained is why the Xbox is sticking with AA compatible setup where a set of 6.99 LADDA rechargeable AA gives you 2x sets of 5000mAh+ (which is 5x as much as the DS4 and its 1000mAh capacity).
So for 7 bucks you get 10x as much usage as the PS4 controller and when they finally wear out you're not buying another nother controller just a new set of $7 rechargeables.
@No_Cartridge and why xbox is still sticking with AA setup nothing beats a set of 5000mAh+ batteries that provide 500% of the power that's built in to the DS4.
And when they won't hold a charge (years later) you just swap em out with another $5.00 set in a 20 second process.
@Splat and this is why xbox owners were laughing when Sony fans were making fun of their consoles design.
Oh yea? Yalls stupid xbox looks like a trash can! My ps4 is plenty quiet... I got this big a** box fan attached and it's just fine and I can't even hear it anymore (cause you know the box fan going right next to it) lol
@GamingFan4Lyf well atleast with Microsoft and Dolby you have the OPTION to use Dolby Atmos for Headphones OR Dolby Atmos for Home Theater. You can also do that in windows or Xbox TODAY.
This is Sony trying to save a buck and reinvent the wheel (and act like it's the first wheel as well)
@Zachary_98 @Zachary_98 yea I'm sorry but Sony is doing what others have already brought to the masses and leaving out support for the stuff many have already invested in. For what? Open access? At the end of the day does open access really help when everyone has equipment designed for the long time leader in 3d audio tech?
Im much happier with Microsofts approach and the fact that we ALREADY have 3d positional audio today in both xbox one and windows 10.
It's great tech, that also happens to work great for not only my headphones which are not Dolby atmos branded, but also my very nice 7.1.4 home theater which IS Dolby ATMOS branded (along with many other technologies like dts:x)
Sony is basically trying to reinvent the wheel here and at the same time saying all you guys with wheel already yea you can't run them with our stuff.
@zebric21 because every single cross release ran better on ps4 than xbox one and every video or article in 2013 pointed this out. It most definitely along with the price pushed many including previous long term xbox fans over to ps4 in the early days and those early adopter friends influenced their other friends who came on later to go with the platform they already had bought into.
Trust me in the beginning it was not for exclusives (knack / ruse son of Rome??? Lol)
It was because of performance and all the reporting on it.
The sane comparisons are coming again and it's going to look quite different this time.
@TheNewButler they're not talking about VRS and such BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE IT.
Didn't you hear the news? These features are all part of dx12 ultimate which not only will the Xbox support but also BOTH Nvidia and AMD future GPU'S.
The only one left out is Sony and this is going to make game development across pc and Xbox even more seamless and titles will have major advantage when using dx12.
That's gotta hurt Sony development to miss out on the massive technologies.
And now we know why both Microsoft and AMD have talked about this tech but somehow Sony was not.
@beavis64 7 games in 7 years of owning ps4 or ps4 pro that's all the games I cared to play on the system as an owner of all platforms Sony is the inferior choice except for in the games you can only play on it.
I just don't know if 1 game a year is worth the cost of 2 different systems across that generation.
@S1ayeR74 I dont think it will be a cooling issue honestly I think it's going to be fine if still a louder but smaller box.
No what I think will end up being the problem is power like literally juice the amd smart shift tech is here because they have a limited amount of juice and need to stretch it further than it should go so it's going to be a see saw all day with which chip needs the juice and you'll never see both chips performing at the quoted specs never at the same time for sure.
@Psychoticjp frequency only wins out in performance over cores when a game is usually using outdated technology that focused on maximum chip speed and couldn't scale across slightly slower but more cores.
It's the reason Intel chips have been faster in games for a long time they have higher frequency but as games have moved to using more cores year after year they are starting to run better and better on the amd's slower but more core chips. . The future is in more cores and having less with more frequency is the think g of the past and WILL age worse.
@shortmaneighty2 90% of games released during the first 2 years are titles that were either redeveloped from the old console or are literally cross gen games.
Even on Sony side besides a couple marquee games they focus on their won't be anything truly next gen for a few years on both.
@panzermesiter74 well I mean did you see the explanation of amd smart shift tech?
It's like a see saw between the gpu and cpu and when one needs the power it's pulled away from the other.
You'll never see both of these chips running at those paper max numbers they are touting.
The ps5 is a 9.2tflop chip that they will let go up to 10.2 when things aren't too intense.
To me you need the more power when things are at their worst not when they're at their best.
That's why Microsoft solution just makes more sense AND it's faster while also being locked.
All this spin will come falling down when the direct comparison videos start dropping at launch.
Sony might be able to do SOME more interesting things with loading but outside of these 1st party situations things will always look worse on Sonys limited power hardware.
@GamingFan4Lyf is do people think that this 3d audio tech they are talking about is anything more than them doing what Dolby atmos ALREADY provides? It's just a decimated sound card with 3 dimensional audio positioning with Ray tracing possibly helping.
@carlos82 they started working on b/c before yesterday maybe? Lol I kid but for real they been at it much longer before Sony even started attempting not to mention they are trying to do it in hardware as Microsoft just made it happen through emulation.
This may come back to bite them in the butt since it's already limiting their hardware to match previous hardware.
@leucocyte yes and Microsoft has promoted their velocity architecture with access to up to 100gb of game data instantly.
At this point neither is tested and shown to have any more or less of an impact.
The fact is i/o speed is almost always the last thing to be effective against or for your games level of detail fps or resolution.
At the end of the day that's all that really matters and though ps5 1st party titles will be designed with the extra i/o in mind the cross platform titles will not.
@Exlee300p I watch df guys religiously and I've seen all their coverage even they have said the ssd performance won't matter in cross plats and only first party will put in the extra work to make that little bit faster i/o actually useful.
They also plain out said the Xbox is more powerful but they are interested in what Sony can do with the higher frequency vs the lower cu.
More power does not equal more better but it it does mean more power and the Xbox has more power and the last time the two original consoles launched the PS4 was more powerful and it mattered and it showed.
Every other news video or comparison was ps4 runs such and such at 1080p xbox one at 900p (or worse) this type of direct comparison dominated the coverage of the new consoles at the time and I'm sure led to many of those die hard xbox fans to jump ship when it was clear their games were going to be better on the other side.
People aren't goi g to switch mid generation when people have already been on a platform that long the Xbox one x or ps4 prop isn't going to get them to switch. . That usually happens at the beginning of a generation when people are much less invested.
With many long time xbox players seeing Microsoft providing great backwards compatibility all the way back to the original Xbox it may be tempting to just go back home and have access to all that old content they've been missing out on.
@Exlee300p dude we've had 3d audio for a LONG time and you can currently use Dolby atmos in many games and experience 3 dimensional sound stage and presence of audio not only around but above or below you.
The fact that this thing has dedicated audio isn't that different from what microsoft has in its dedicated audio hardware and with both sporting ray tracing they can use that in audio design to make it even more realistic.
The point is the both can do this Microsoft is just not pushing something they've basically been doing for a long while now.
@Nickolaidas it absolutely will and people who sit around trying to down play the performance difference and compare things like old consoles that were slower but had better games.
Back then their architecture were so different and required a lot of work to get working on other platforms than originally designed led to many games not being optimized when running on more powerful but more difficult to work with systems..
The situation is here is very different these consoles are literally using the same parts just out together in slightly different way they will be running a lot of the same api and code and will see games brought over between platforms a much lore straightforward thing.
It's true like cerny said that comparing things like tflops of ps4 or pro or Xbox one x to ps5 or Xbox series x or anything that came before is foolish as the change in architecture means those flops were all able to have more or less efficiency based on their designs. Again as cerny said GCN DOES NOT EQUAL RDNA2.
These consoles on the other hand are the exact same architecture and a direct comparison between them using information such as tflops is a very useful tool.
It was the same with Xbox one and ps4 and with the PS4 being the more powerful Console it led to almost every single cross plat running best on ps4.
The same will most likely apply here wlas well they are too similar for the difference in "performance" numbers not to have a direct correlation into either lower fps lower res or lower detail settings possibly all three or some combination of them.
Games run looking either better or faster playing on a 2080s vs a 2070 and that roughly the power difference we are looking at.
@NevG is I took have been a Playstation user since the very beginning and was outside best buys toys r us or Walmart all night for days sometimes to get the new consoles so in not against Sony but neither am i against Xbox or really anyone. I like powerful hardware and good games and I play them wherever I can at the best quality I can for the majority of games that's been my super high end pc (even with Microsoft titles which I still love to ogears 5 was great) but
But calling it what it is and that Sony is coming up short with the performance is the only fair opinion ti have to try and spin that this some how won't show up in cross platform titles is irresponsible but as you've said we won't know for SURE til we do. . I just prefer not to bury my head in the sand and feel I must call a spade a spade.
The fact is storage speeds though needing a massive boost over what the previous consoles had is NOT going to be a big differential in the performance of a game across the two platforms.
Cross titles will obviously take advantage of the speed on a very low level but the Xbox performance will be the target as it just illogical to try and make a game somehow benefit MORE on ps5 while still being supported on XSX.
1ST party titles designed exclusively for ps5 may in fact put the extra i/o speed to good use and may lead to some interesting ideas but at the end of the day the Xbox velocity architecture is aiming to provide very similar instant access to game data at any time.
The jump from hdd to ssd is what will makes the biggest benefit and they'll both blow you away on their new speed in lauding and streaming assets. The speed difference between the two though will be much less noticeable and again on cross plat titles they won't be designed in anyway that would take advantage of the extra i/o speed on ps5.
I've been using a very fast gen nvme for some time now and though it is lighting fast and I load into games 1st every time my fellow players pop up behind not long after I barely get loving before I hear the porting in. That is unless they're still using hard drive for storage then it's sometimes up to a whole minute or more later before they show up.
@hoffa007 I'm sorry but the fact that they didn't even provide 1tb of storage something that's been standard on this generation for sometime now is just crazy and really left a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of the presentation.
There's just no excuse and having the ability to MAYBE at launch maybe have an option to go spend another couple hundred bucks to have some actual storage.
@badbob001 well we all know single treaded high frequency developmt is the thinking of old and today's programmers are working to maximize the use of asanu cores as possible. Clocks can only ever go so high before you have a frying pan but more cores isichore manageable and realistic way of adding power.
The Xbox will run at 3.8 without SMT (hyperthreading) but will click down just a bit and run at 3.6 with it on.
The difference in raw fos by doing this has been shown by DF to offer up to 30% additional performance by just clocking down but adding those extra threads.
Old games worked best in high frequency situations above all else. But today's games and they future will more and more greatly benefit from more threads at slightly lower clocks.
@leucocyte it may not seem like much but a 17%(at max 10.2 tflops) - ~30% (downclocks and comes in around 9.2 originally rumored)
But this difference may not seem like a lot but it can be the difference between solid 60 and variable one or true 4k or having to go 1800 or even 1440p
Things like this the series x is 2080s levels of power and with console optimization could give 2080ti a run for its money.
The 9.2-10.2 variable performance of the ps5 is much closer to 2070 levels and though still a fine card isn't "in the same ballpark" it's a different product stack all together.
@JJ2 I'm sorry but the faster storage isn't going to be a game changer the fact that they both switched to ssd and require fast storage for new games is. But the difference between them will be really hard to find you might shave a second or 2 off a initial load but in general they both going to perform almost exactly the same. Check out Linus tech tips video on pci express 3.0 vs 4.0 storage and you'll see what I'm talking about I use a super fast nvme today in my pc and when loading onto games I'm always first but I'm not THAT ahead only a few seconds unless the other guy is in hard drive then it seems like FOREVER!
@hoffa007 wherever they end up expect ps5 and series x to be the same I'm expecting 499. Microsoft won't let them under sell them and the tech even though better on series x isn't so much better that Sony can sell for a ton less.
Though Microsoft still has Lockhart and i feel are holding on to it as a surprise announcement when pricing goes live so they can not only have the most powerful Console but so they can also have the cheapest next gen option too
@DanM many people who buy these consoles don't buy them for the God of War or the last of us 2 (if they did why are their 120 million ps4 and only a couple million of those games sold?)
They buy these system to play the latest such and such title that all their friends play and the one they've been into for years and now just want the chance to experience at its best. They tend to go where their friends are already at but when you're that friend who is first to next gen it's ultimately up to you where you go and many (just like with ps4 and Xbox one launch) see all the news and articles and videos and comments about how call of duty plays best on ps4 or battlefield runs at 1080p on ps4 struggles at 900p (or less) on Xbox one. . Those stories influence that guy who is at a juncture and decides if the price isn't more it only makes sense to go where the best place to play the games they care about.
Many people friends of mine included left xbox after years of being there because Sony just made more sense games ran better and played better and it offered it all at a cheaper price.
They weren't making those decisions based on exclusive one and done single players (they had no interest nor was there really anything worth much in the beginning) it was all the cross platform games amd the ones that were their go to's that made them switch they wanted to experience a great version not the mediocre second option.
@Noblevoice are they though only if the chip is running at its MAX POTENTIAL frequency is it around 15% slower were talking 2080s vs 2070 and if you actually see the more stable everyday clocks I think it will be much closer to 30% (9vs12).
Pushong that chip as high as they are it's going to run hot and it's going to get loud especially if they aren't designing case like Microsoft that offers function over form.
If they stick it in something like the dev kit it would be OK but if it's closer to the PS4 pro it's in trouble.
@NevG I'm sorry but when the shoe was on the other foot with ps4 and Xbox one all Sony people could talk about was teraflops. Now that the tides have turned now they want to downplay it? It absolutely matters and it will absolutely show in cross platform titles there will be many a article or video put out saying such and such runs best on series x or such and such is 2160p/60 (XSX) 1440p/30-60 (ps5) I and so on and so forth.
This type of news dominates for some time after launch and it definitely helped a lot of previous xbox owners make the jump to ps4 easier (in addition to Microsofts other blunders).
The system is at minimum 17% faster and due to Sony using vauge max performance quotes could end up up close to 30% lower.
Thise leaked numbers that revealed the Xbox and talked about the PS4 and its multi stage stepping for ps4 BC also said the chip would end up above 2.0ghz and with the same cu that was announced.
The estimated tflops was 9.2 and I feel this is a much closer number to what the ps5 will perform when is really being taxed in your AAA games.
You'll see the higher number when things are calm or you're playing some indie but for the moments that really count the chip is already being pushed well above what the silicon naturally wants to be at.
A 12 vs 9 tflops situation ISN'T nothing.
Again Sony is just making this hard for their own fans and giving everyone a free pass to step all over them.
They should step up and do something g to show what they are truly capable of.
I'm just afraid it will always be to a lesser extent than what microsoft can do.
@LN78 it won't be Microsoft isn't going to give Sony that advantage again.
They know what happened last time can't happen this time They rectified the power shortage now they will eat whatever additional cost just to stay at that alluring other option.
You go 100 more you make it too easy for others to write you off and ignore your superiority.
@Odium its absolutely less powerful with MAYBE higher i/o speeds but at the end of the day they'll both be lighting fast compared to before the difference will come down to the things microsoft made sure they were best in.
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Re: Poll: Are You Happy with the Way Sony Is Handling the PS5 Reveal?
@GADG3Tx87 " a proper one though, not a fake one that's also on PC" when will people get it through their heads that Microsoft no longer considers pc and console to separate devices? It's the same thing to them and you can play it in either place you're still playing it in their ecosystem and that's all they care about now.
Console exclusive is an archaic mindset. Platform exclusive is the right way to think about users.
Why limit yourself to only those that can and will buy a specific box when you can sell the same game to anyone and make just as much?
10 years from now I'm sure the rest of you will have caught on. Just like all those idiots still investing in blockbuster when redbox/Netflix showed up.
Re: Poll: Are You Happy with the Way Sony Is Handling the PS5 Reveal?
@JJ2 true but what we've seen has been sais to run at 4k/30/60/120 on Xbox and only thing shown for ps5 has been stated to run at1440p/30.
I'm all for good games but if they're going to run like crap I don't know if I can stomach it.
Imaging a game that moves so fast but is then stuck at 30 fps... Literally makes me feel ill.
Re: Sony Unphased by Aggressive Xbox Series X Marketing, CFO Says Proof Will Be in PS5 Sales
@MarcG420 one word blu-ray many many many systems were sold as a cheap alternative for a Blu ray player 1st and a game console second.
Microsoft biggest mistake was not having a next gen disc format ready to go with their launch if they did we all might be using HD-DVD instead of Bluray
Re: Sony Unphased by Aggressive Xbox Series X Marketing, CFO Says Proof Will Be in PS5 Sales
@JJ2 so they editing comments now? Is it really come to this level of defensiveness? Just because Microsoft has really stepped up their game and are actually coming to fight this time?
I don't think anyone on MS side has said anything but that Microsoft is really going to deliver a next gen powerful console with real performance.
And in comparison to what Sony has done they are not wrong they have the power upper hand.
4k/30 on Xbox series x OK not best but better than 1440(or less) /30.
I personally never thought in a million years that Xbox will outsell Sony full stop. It won't happen its never happened.
But what I do think will be true is them delivering the real performance people are looking for in a next gen system (at least in regards to being the most powerful of the 2).
I won't be buying an Xbox (as I don't have to I have a pc that outperforms both today and still I'm set to install a 10900k this week and a next gen ampere gpu (3080 ti) by the time these systems launch.
The ps5 MAY get a buy but I still think between the two ecosystems Microsoft is doing way more that's positive for the consumer. And again because they give me the freedom I'll support them (and have been) using my pc that they let me use to play games within their platforms.
All while having much higher performance than either of these fixed boxes can.
Sony fanboys are upset and lashing out not because Microsoft is going to "beat them" it's because Microsoft is making their blind faith in Sony make them look foolish.
It's a hard pill to swallow. Sony should do better for their clients and offer much more of what Microsoft is doing for them.
Microsofts moves make everything better for the industry as a whole and hopefully they can put enough pressure on Sony to keep pushing them to tear down their walls and outdated models.
Re: This PS5 DualSense Render Is Too Sexy Not to Share
@Zach_99 Zach my boy I'm afraid to tell you this hit you "own" nothing when it comes to your games and your ability to access use them is directly tied to services that they can for any reason deny you at any time your false comfort in "owning" a game is just a scam to make you comfortable in giving over your money.
I myself rather take my gut punch from someone who just straight up tells me instead of trying to hide it behind some false idea of ownership.
I said before I WISH I COULD HAVE PAID A FRACTION OF THE COST AND ONLY HAD ACCESS TO THE GAMES FOR THE WEEKEND OR SO I WAS ACTUALLY PLAYING IT!
$1 to play forza horizon 3 sure! $2 dollars to learn sea of thieves isn't for me? Better than paying $60! Getting all the games I mentioned before plus a dozen or so more I've played all for the flat $180 I paid for game pass for 3 years (not to mention I get every upcoming Xbox series x game included in that til October 2022)
Um hell yea! Best deal ever!
I don't own my games you don't own your games at this point I'm all passed the idea of trying to pretend like I do.
It why I refuse to buy digital on Playstation now it's a waste of money for something I could still lose in a moment of Sony denies my access to my account (which is probably now almost as old as you and has 100+ games from over 15 years)
It's not mine it's Sonys and they let me have access. That's it!
I'd rather give 10% of the same money to Microsoft and get just as much (if not more out of their games) because again Sonys games are basically 1 weekend or so games where at least with Microsoft titles I've been hooked on it was more like a month or 2 with friends (depending on how long their trial was for).
Microsofts services "users" isn't limited to just their console owners and soon enough the measure of success won't be with how many consoles youve sold but how many people are part of your ecosystem.
You saw the article I linked you over 10 million xbox game pass members and growing that's at least 50 million a month or 1.2 billion a year and it's just going to keep going up and the more that join the more they make.
It's like a gym membership many pay only some use and gym gets to keep the money. The people who go benefit just fine and the people who don't well they at least know they have the option and to many that's enough to make or worth paying for.
Same with Netflix and I can still remember the day when they had just hit 1 million users and Microsoft and game pass is already at 10 million.
Imagine where they'll be in a decade.
2010 Netflix 7.7 million
2020 Netflix 167 million
There's also almost 1 billion windows 10 users and each and everyone is just a couple clicks from being a paid Xbox services member.
Re: This PS5 DualSense Render Is Too Sexy Not to Share
@Zach_99 1 Ryse wasn't 1st party 2. Knack
Also I'm not going to continue going back and forth with a kid like yourself who has only grown up in a world where Sony is and has always been THE console (you know nothing of the real "console wars" that happened before you left your daddy's... Ahm)
Like they say those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.
And Darwin tells us those who fail to adapt are made irrelevant and eventually extinct.
Ask commodore atari 3DO and Sega is (what's left of them) plus many many more or what's left of them.
But no you keep being a blind fanboy and walk right off that ledge with em we know you'd never dare question when they tell you to.
Re: This PS5 DualSense Render Is Too Sexy Not to Share
@Zach_99 as far as power talk? It was Sony who started throwing tflops around and talking about "real" HD gaming and such during the early days of ps4/Xbox one. It's funny to see how NOW they as well as fanboys like yourselves want to act like a it doesn't get you real butt hurt to keep hearing about how you're not the most powerful next gen console.
I had avoided even discussing these numbers because I know it's really arbitrary but to hear some fan boy start throwing around claims of xbox trying to claim some "superiority" title when it was you and your company who started the talk of such things to begin with... It's easy to brag about something that doesn't really matter THAT much when you know you'll come out on top anyway but it stings when it's the other way around and why so many of you are determined to try and dispell the thought completely (what?before it ACTUALLY has an influence?) lol
Re: This PS5 DualSense Render Is Too Sexy Not to Share
@Zach_99 Their are a lot more I can't think of but I know I spent more time with these titles than the one and done nature of many of the Sony games I played.
They were literally a weekend or 3 day affair amd then it was over I might as well have sold the game off (if I actually could being digital makes that impossible).
I started to wisen up towards the of this gen and stopped buying digital because of this and now I have actually played the last couple games (death stranding final fantasy vii) on disc just so I could sell em off when I was done.
Sony does amazing single player one and done stories but other than that I can't find any reason to use them (like I literally don't even use their controller when playing ps4, I use an Xbox elite) and unlike Microsoft who has found ways to make a pc focused guy like me pay attention Sony has been stubborn the whole time (and only most recently have they started to open up some which is great).
I just need them to do more and until they do ill always vote Microsoft.
Once I can happily support both platforms through their respective platforms but play my games on my much better hardware I'll keep singing the praises of Microsoft.
. Once they do actually turn it around and deliver top notch game of the year type games that no one can deny well.... It's gonna be a bad day to be stuck in the past Sony.
Re: This PS5 DualSense Render Is Too Sexy Not to Share
@Zach_99 is right and what you're too thick to get is both brands have "coasted" on franchises plenty and though halo has been down the last couple times it was up for a while too and just like with your God of War mention games that start high and fall can have a resurgence and which after they can and do fall again sometimes.
It's all uos and downs for decades now. But I know you were probably still suckling on your mom (born in 99?) when the Xbox came to be but for the better part of a decade from there the games that were making the news and crushing records were typically on Xbox or Xbox focused. Sony obviously was the one people were talking about before that and they became the one people talked about after...
Again maybe a little slower.....
Success comes in waves and if you think that just because you did in the past you'll Co tin to do so in the future....
You will fail to live up to your potential!
I'm no fortune teller I can't see the future but what I can do is judge where platforms are focused and where they are headed Sony is marching down that same worn down road Microsoft is flying a freaking spaceship in comparison.
I want to support the company that is forward thinking and the one focused on ME, the gamer!
Everything Microsoft does is for us Sony only joins in if forced.
Sony doesn't put you first or me first or anyone but Sony. Microsoft just wants us all the have the best experiences we can wherever that is. And I'm all about that.
I'll probably never own and Xbox series x... You know why? Cause Microsoft won't force me to buy one to participate. They'll let me take my much more powerful pc and use that to basically do anything some locked down box could ever do. And because of this I'm all paid up for 3 YEARS ($180) for their game pass ultimate service. I'd be willing to give Sony something similar but sadly they arent going to do that they are going to force me to spend another $500+ this year on a box I'll play maybe 2-3 games a year on. For the life of my ps4/pro it's been about the same (or even less) and at the end of my time with the generation I'm not sure if it was worth it. The games were good but is it worth (2) console purchases plus them dragging me on to psn when I actually wanted to play the 1 or 2 titles I'd play that year?
Ive played maybe what 6 or 7 "exclusives" that were even worth playing in the whole generation. Say 10 games over 7 years at $60 a game ($600)+ they got atleast 2 years of psn out of me ($100)+ the consoles themselves ($400)+($500)
$1600+ to play 10 games
Even if they were really good (and some definitely were) I don't know if it's really justified.
Off my "investment" in game pass ultimate I've had the chance to play as many games (maybe more) and truth be told I had as much fun or more with many of them...
Forza horizon 3 and 4 both great fun with my friends (they also got to jump on and play for like $1 trials)
Gears of War 4 (good) for and 5 (great)
Outerworlds (very solid)
Metro exodus (excellent entry)
Cuphead (way different than my normal tough as nails but a lot of fun)
Re: This PS5 DualSense Render Is Too Sexy Not to Share
@Zach_99 and again it's stuff like this that I'm talking about. Who's got the most outdated / expensive boxes growing more and more outdated isn't the future.
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/4/30/21242479/microsoft-xbox-game-pass-subscribers-phil-spencer-comments
I bet blockbuster and others like it didn't think it was a big deal either when Netflix started shipping dvds at a flat monthly fee or when they started streaming some real "basic and boring" streaming content.
Like I've been saying TIMES CHANGE and what maybe your weren't around for is the top dawg doesn't ALWAYS stay on top.
If you've only been gaming since Sony you might not understand that but I've been around a long time and I've seen the "new hotness" come and go. The one thing I'm always about is what's coming up next...
I stay out in front it's why I been ray tracing since 2018 and Netflix user long before they even had an ad to entice you to join.
I watch the world and I know when something game changing is mounting.
Re: This PS5 DualSense Render Is Too Sexy Not to Share
@cali_kush70 a bunch of those "exclusives" and are or have already coming to pc so I wouldn't call them "exclusives" maybe "Sony console exclusives" but just like with Xbox they aren't a reason in and of themselves that you must own a ps4.
Re: This PS5 DualSense Render Is Too Sexy Not to Share
@Zach_99 But any day im giving the choice of where to play a game if it's not 100% exclusive to ps4 I AIN'T PLAYING IT THERE. I'll take a game on Xbox live and Microsoft OS any day over the same on Sony and psn.
It's why I an owner of a ps4 pro and 0 Xbox currently have 3 years of Xbox game pass ultimate paid for through 2022 and don't even subscribe to psn+. Microsoft is killing it in the software and services and that's where the real money is made not in having 5je #1 worldwide hardware sales (remember hardware barely has profits if not actual losses in some cases).
At the end of the day I don't care who "wins" I've never been that type of fanboy. I typically and historically have owned ALL major gaming consoles going back to snes and genesis (I've in fact owned all of them since) I also game on a pc that blows all of them including these new consoles out of the water so I don't need to justify my stance because it's the only position I can speak from.
I come from a middle ground owner of everything and supporter of just "greatness" and to me ever since Sony has been taking the stick to Microsoft in 2013 they've done nothing but make Microsoft become my favorite gaming company putting the gamer 1st and delivering a stellar service today.
The games haven't fully come (but there were still plenty to justify my game pass ultimate sub) and I'm sure more and better are to follow (I hope) but I can call it fair and unbiased as someone who plays (and pays) for all of em.
Microsoft is the one doing things that put us gamers 1st and with the best services out there today.
And yes I know I wrote a book too so thanks for getting me so worked up lol!
PS -
VR
I'm currently playing half life alyx (the first game I've ever said was a must play for vr) on a Microsoft headset whether you realize it or not Microsoft is waist deep in vr fine tuning it where it's meant to be tuned on pc. And when it's finally fully ready and some thing most should be looking at its only a software update away from being fully compatible with their gaming console.
They know it's something to being pursuing and they are just in a (again) much more consumer friendly (read not half baked) way.
Re: This PS5 DualSense Render Is Too Sexy Not to Share
@Zach_99 also read a little more of you manifesto and 1. Multiple games throughout Sonys history were marketed as "halo killers" for over a decade Sony had 0 fps worth playing that wasnt multiplat. 2. Microsoft isn't even playing the "game" most of you Sony fanboys think it's still all about. They're a "service first" company moving towards a all access /streaming future with their hands in all the important tech of tomorrow (why do you think Sony has to partner with them for cloud?) and making "the #1 selling hardware worldwide" isn't even the play for them anymore they were never going to win that battle amd honestly I never cared if they did.
Microsoft is a US company and JP doesn't go for outside JP gaming never have and never will. But what micorosft can and has done in the past is pay attention to their target audience (and again not as of now but in the past) delivered them the best games for them in the best experience with the best infrastructure. I could care less if the rest of the world hates us US gamers and our way of gaming but I DON'T and that's all that matters. It just so happens that this gen Sony really delivered the games I wanted to play but I still find their software and networking to be abhorrent and would take a xbox live enabled Xbox one s over a ps4 and it's terrible outdated laggy software. I try to do one thing with a game running and the whole system can freeze for seconds at a time. And I have a pro even not a base I'd hate to see that.
What again I think your missing is that many of us gamers couldn't care less about a popularity contest and only care about 2 things - the games (obviously) and the experience delivered around those games by the hardware/software delivering them.
I give you 100% that Sony had the better games over the last 5 to 7 years hands down. I'll even give you that their upcoming games have a much better chance to be good (a chance remember they can still screw them up).
Re: This PS5 DualSense Render Is Too Sexy Not to Share
@Zach_99 judging by your massive tirade above theres little no point in even saying this but you missed the point of my original reply completely. I only got about half way through your walk down Sonys hall of fame before I finally gave up and saw you had no real point.
I never said anything about the dozen or more other games you mentioned here because they're weren't part nod your original post. I spoke to the ones you listed and pointed out that only one of those (horizon zero dawn) was new ip. You also then supposedly called me out by saying "what about herizon zero dawn?" like did you even read what I said?
Again I don't want to go back and forth with your and your encyclopedia of Sony highlights but the point I was making there was a time when Microsofts titles were the hottest in the planet and barely anyone cared about something like uncharted 1 or a failed "halo killer" like resistance fall of man.
The WHOLE point was TIMES CHANGE and even I partook of Sony and their great games this gen but I also wanted nothing to do with them a decade or so ago when it was (at the time) all about Microsoft and their games for me and many others. I don't hate Sony or their games amd think they've made plenty of classics this gen but it's also a lot of rereading (just like Microsoft) and it only take a few small mistakes to take the titles from "the new hotness" to "tired and played out".
Sony needs to not get comfortable (something Microsoft definitely did) and if the word on the street about last of us 2 is anything to go by they may already be slipping.
It's a quick slide from greatest to mediocre (heck Sony has done that multiple times in their life already) and Microsoft is taking extra care to watch where they step right now.
Re: This PS5 DualSense Render Is Too Sexy Not to Share
@Zach_99 is of all the games you named only one is original new ip. Several are just literally remakes of ps3 or PS2 games and another is just ANOTHER in a long line of licensed games.
Sony isnt really just blowing up with new original ip either is all I'm saying.
They're games have been great but many of them are based on games that in the past I gave 0 thought or if I did try them they were mediocre at best (uncharted).
At the end of the day someone HAS to have the games that are more popular t and I can remember a time when every franchise Microsoft was putting out DOMINATED and anything Sony did was just felt as a rip off that did it way worse.
Halo 1, 2, 3 or Gears of War 1,2,3
/
Killzone 1 or resistance fall of man?
Anyone's "new hotness" can easily become "old and tired" it just remember that!
If Microsoft has done any of this right we have 0 clue what amazing games they are brining and won't even be able to call them that to long after we've been playing them.
That's the point.
/
Re: This PS5 Console Mock-Up Looks Even Better in Black
Everyone's problem with these mock up articles isn't that they exist (well yes at this point its this too to some degree) but it's because of the clickbait and the fact that now for like the 10th time an article has fooled me into clicking on an article by not exactly telling me it's just some mock up by some fanboy.
If you maybe spelled it out up front instead of after the rss break maybe as many wouldn't be pissed when they end up here to see yet another let's go digital crappy render.
I did re-read the title of your article and now see you used "mockup" in the title bitbi guess it's just now after the 10th one your brain goes on autopilot hoping it's actually something useful (and sorta knowing it won't be).
Just maybe cut back on them or just spell it out VERY CLEARLY.
"Yet ANOTHER fan made concept..."
Something like that.
Re: Did You Know There's An Easy Way to Turn Off Your PS4 Controller?
@soy I personally always turn mine off this way as I find the menus in the Playstation 4 to be a lag fest almost to the point it feels locked up. I leave my system on for media and other such things and this battery already needs to get charged 4x as often as my rechargeables in the elite so I keep it off as much as possible.
Re: Did You Know There's An Easy Way to Turn Off Your PS4 Controller?
@JohnKarnes the idea of needing a whole nother controller when your battery is drained is why the Xbox is sticking with AA compatible setup where a set of 6.99 LADDA rechargeable AA gives you 2x sets of 5000mAh+ (which is 5x as much as the DS4 and its 1000mAh capacity).
So for 7 bucks you get 10x as much usage as the PS4 controller and when they finally wear out you're not buying another nother controller just a new set of $7 rechargeables.
Re: Did You Know There's An Easy Way to Turn Off Your PS4 Controller?
@No_Cartridge and why xbox is still sticking with AA setup nothing beats a set of 5000mAh+ batteries that provide 500% of the power that's built in to the DS4.
And when they won't hold a charge (years later) you just swap em out with another $5.00 set in a 20 second process.
Re: Random: Jet Engine PS4 Fan Noise Goes Viral in Social Media Mocking
@S1ayeR74 reading your post I thought as I was reading that last sentence you were going to say looking forward to..... And then Microsoft.
I mean that's the only way that sentence made any sense as I was reading.
Good slight of hand there my friend!
Lol
Re: Random: Jet Engine PS4 Fan Noise Goes Viral in Social Media Mocking
@Splat and this is why xbox owners were laughing when Sony fans were making fun of their consoles design.
Oh yea? Yalls stupid xbox looks like a trash can!
My ps4 is plenty quiet... I got this big a** box fan attached and it's just fine and I can't even hear it anymore (cause you know the box fan going right next to it) lol
Re: PS5's 3D Audio Technology Even Has Dolby Atmos Excited
@GamingFan4Lyf well atleast with Microsoft and Dolby you have the OPTION to use Dolby Atmos for Headphones OR Dolby Atmos for Home Theater. You can also do that in windows or Xbox TODAY.
This is Sony trying to save a buck and reinvent the wheel (and act like it's the first wheel as well)
Re: PS5's 3D Audio Technology Even Has Dolby Atmos Excited
@Zachary_98 @Zachary_98 yea I'm sorry but Sony is doing what others have already brought to the masses and leaving out support for the stuff many have already invested in. For what? Open access? At the end of the day does open access really help when everyone has equipment designed for the long time leader in 3d audio tech?
Im much happier with Microsofts approach and the fact that we ALREADY have 3d positional audio today in both xbox one and windows 10.
It's great tech, that also happens to work great for not only my headphones which are not Dolby atmos branded, but also my very nice 7.1.4 home theater which IS Dolby ATMOS branded (along with many other technologies like dts:x)
Sony is basically trying to reinvent the wheel here and at the same time saying all you guys with wheel already yea you can't run them with our stuff.
Re: PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication
@zebric21 because every single cross release ran better on ps4 than xbox one and every video or article in 2013 pointed this out. It most definitely along with the price pushed many including previous long term xbox fans over to ps4 in the early days and those early adopter friends influenced their other friends who came on later to go with the platform they already had bought into.
Trust me in the beginning it was not for exclusives (knack / ruse son of Rome??? Lol)
It was because of performance and all the reporting on it.
The sane comparisons are coming again and it's going to look quite different this time.
Re: PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication
@TheNewButler they're not talking about VRS and such BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE IT.
Didn't you hear the news? These features are all part of dx12 ultimate which not only will the Xbox support but also BOTH Nvidia and AMD future GPU'S.
The only one left out is Sony and this is going to make game development across pc and Xbox even more seamless and titles will have major advantage when using dx12.
That's gotta hurt Sony development to miss out on the massive technologies.
And now we know why both Microsoft and AMD have talked about this tech but somehow Sony was not.
DX12 Ultimate is the answer
Re: PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication
@beavis64 7 games in 7 years of owning ps4 or ps4 pro that's all the games I cared to play on the system as an owner of all platforms Sony is the inferior choice except for in the games you can only play on it.
I just don't know if 1 game a year is worth the cost of 2 different systems across that generation.
Re: PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication
@S1ayeR74 I dont think it will be a cooling issue honestly I think it's going to be fine if still a louder but smaller box.
No what I think will end up being the problem is power like literally juice the amd smart shift tech is here because they have a limited amount of juice and need to stretch it further than it should go so it's going to be a see saw all day with which chip needs the juice and you'll never see both chips performing at the quoted specs never at the same time for sure.
Re: PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication
@Psychoticjp frequency only wins out in performance over cores when a game is usually using outdated technology that focused on maximum chip speed and couldn't scale across slightly slower but more cores.
It's the reason Intel chips have been faster in games for a long time they have higher frequency but as games have moved to using more cores year after year they are starting to run better and better on the amd's slower but more core chips.
. The future is in more cores and having less with more frequency is the think g of the past and WILL age worse.
Re: PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication
@shortmaneighty2 90% of games released during the first 2 years are titles that were either redeveloped from the old console or are literally cross gen games.
Even on Sony side besides a couple marquee games they focus on their won't be anything truly next gen for a few years on both.
Re: PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication
@panzermesiter74 well I mean did you see the explanation of amd smart shift tech?
It's like a see saw between the gpu and cpu and when one needs the power it's pulled away from the other.
You'll never see both of these chips running at those paper max numbers they are touting.
The ps5 is a 9.2tflop chip that they will let go up to 10.2 when things aren't too intense.
To me you need the more power when things are at their worst not when they're at their best.
That's why Microsoft solution just makes more sense AND it's faster while also being locked.
All this spin will come falling down when the direct comparison videos start dropping at launch.
Sony might be able to do SOME more interesting things with loading but outside of these 1st party situations things will always look worse on Sonys limited power hardware.
Re: PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication
@GamingFan4Lyf is do people think that this 3d audio tech they are talking about is anything more than them doing what Dolby atmos ALREADY provides? It's just a decimated sound card with 3 dimensional audio positioning with Ray tracing possibly helping.
Microsoft has ALL OF THIS too!
Re: Soapbox: How PS5's Deep Dive Should Have Been Handled
@JoeBlogs why not? Microsoft did so in the same week.
Re: PS5's Backwards Compatibility with PS4 Has Fans Baffled
@carlos82 they started working on b/c before yesterday maybe? Lol I kid but for real they been at it much longer before Sony even started attempting not to mention they are trying to do it in hardware as Microsoft just made it happen through emulation.
This may come back to bite them in the butt since it's already limiting their hardware to match previous hardware.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@leucocyte yes and Microsoft has promoted their velocity architecture with access to up to 100gb of game data instantly.
At this point neither is tested and shown to have any more or less of an impact.
The fact is i/o speed is almost always the last thing to be effective against or for your games level of detail fps or resolution.
At the end of the day that's all that really matters and though ps5 1st party titles will be designed with the extra i/o in mind the cross platform titles will not.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@Exlee300p I watch df guys religiously and I've seen all their coverage even they have said the ssd performance won't matter in cross plats and only first party will put in the extra work to make that little bit faster i/o actually useful.
They also plain out said the Xbox is more powerful but they are interested in what Sony can do with the higher frequency vs the lower cu.
More power does not equal more better but it it does mean more power and the Xbox has more power and the last time the two original consoles launched the PS4 was more powerful and it mattered and it showed.
Every other news video or comparison was ps4 runs such and such at 1080p xbox one at 900p (or worse) this type of direct comparison dominated the coverage of the new consoles at the time and I'm sure led to many of those die hard xbox fans to jump ship when it was clear their games were going to be better on the other side.
People aren't goi g to switch mid generation when people have already been on a platform that long the Xbox one x or ps4 prop isn't going to get them to switch.
. That usually happens at the beginning of a generation when people are much less invested.
With many long time xbox players seeing Microsoft providing great backwards compatibility all the way back to the original Xbox it may be tempting to just go back home and have access to all that old content they've been missing out on.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@Exlee300p dude we've had 3d audio for a LONG time and you can currently use Dolby atmos in many games and experience 3 dimensional sound stage and presence of audio not only around but above or below you.
The fact that this thing has dedicated audio isn't that different from what microsoft has in its dedicated audio hardware and with both sporting ray tracing they can use that in audio design to make it even more realistic.
The point is the both can do this Microsoft is just not pushing something they've basically been doing for a long while now.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@Nickolaidas it absolutely will and people who sit around trying to down play the performance difference and compare things like old consoles that were slower but had better games.
Back then their architecture were so different and required a lot of work to get working on other platforms than originally designed led to many games not being optimized when running on more powerful but more difficult to work with systems..
The situation is here is very different these consoles are literally using the same parts just out together in slightly different way they will be running a lot of the same api and code and will see games brought over between platforms a much lore straightforward thing.
It's true like cerny said that comparing things like tflops of ps4 or pro or Xbox one x to ps5 or Xbox series x or anything that came before is foolish as the change in architecture means those flops were all able to have more or less efficiency based on their designs. Again as cerny said GCN DOES NOT EQUAL RDNA2.
These consoles on the other hand are the exact same architecture and a direct comparison between them using information such as tflops is a very useful tool.
It was the same with Xbox one and ps4 and with the PS4 being the more powerful Console it led to almost every single cross plat running best on ps4.
The same will most likely apply here wlas well they are too similar for the difference in "performance" numbers not to have a direct correlation into either lower fps lower res or lower detail settings possibly all three or some combination of them.
Games run looking either better or faster playing on a 2080s vs a 2070 and that roughly the power difference we are looking at.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@NevG is I took have been a Playstation user since the very beginning and was outside best buys toys r us or Walmart all night for days sometimes to get the new consoles so in not against Sony but neither am i against Xbox or really anyone. I like powerful hardware and good games and I play them wherever I can at the best quality I can for the majority of games that's been my super high end pc (even with Microsoft titles which I still love to ogears 5 was great) but
But calling it what it is and that Sony is coming up short with the performance is the only fair opinion ti have to try and spin that this some how won't show up in cross platform titles is irresponsible but as you've said we won't know for SURE til we do.
. I just prefer not to bury my head in the sand and feel I must call a spade a spade.
The fact is storage speeds though needing a massive boost over what the previous consoles had is NOT going to be a big differential in the performance of a game across the two platforms.
Cross titles will obviously take advantage of the speed on a very low level but the Xbox performance will be the target as it just illogical to try and make a game somehow benefit MORE on ps5 while still being supported on XSX.
1ST party titles designed exclusively for ps5 may in fact put the extra i/o speed to good use and may lead to some interesting ideas but at the end of the day the Xbox velocity architecture is aiming to provide very similar instant access to game data at any time.
The jump from hdd to ssd is what will makes the biggest benefit and they'll both blow you away on their new speed in lauding and streaming assets. The speed difference between the two though will be much less noticeable and again on cross plat titles they won't be designed in anyway that would take advantage of the extra i/o speed on ps5.
I've been using a very fast gen nvme for some time now and though it is lighting fast and I load into games 1st every time my fellow players pop up behind not long after I barely get loving before I hear the porting in. That is unless they're still using hard drive for storage then it's sometimes up to a whole minute or more later before they show up.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@hoffa007 I'm sorry but the fact that they didn't even provide 1tb of storage something that's been standard on this generation for sometime now is just crazy and really left a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of the presentation.
There's just no excuse and having the ability to MAYBE at launch maybe have an option to go spend another couple hundred bucks to have some actual storage.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@badbob001 well we all know single treaded high frequency developmt is the thinking of old and today's programmers are working to maximize the use of asanu cores as possible. Clocks can only ever go so high before you have a frying pan but more cores isichore manageable and realistic way of adding power.
The Xbox will run at 3.8 without SMT (hyperthreading) but will click down just a bit and run at 3.6 with it on.
The difference in raw fos by doing this has been shown by DF to offer up to 30% additional performance by just clocking down but adding those extra threads.
Old games worked best in high frequency situations above all else. But today's games and they future will more and more greatly benefit from more threads at slightly lower clocks.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@leucocyte it may not seem like much but a 17%(at max 10.2 tflops) - ~30% (downclocks and comes in around 9.2 originally rumored)
But this difference may not seem like a lot but it can be the difference between solid 60 and variable one or true 4k or having to go 1800 or even 1440p
Things like this the series x is 2080s levels of power and with console optimization could give 2080ti a run for its money.
The 9.2-10.2 variable performance of the ps5 is much closer to 2070 levels and though still a fine card isn't "in the same ballpark" it's a different product stack all together.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@Instinct and Sonys got what? Godfall? Lol
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@JJ2 I'm sorry but the faster storage isn't going to be a game changer the fact that they both switched to ssd and require fast storage for new games is. But the difference between them will be really hard to find you might shave a second or 2 off a initial load but in general they both going to perform almost exactly the same. Check out Linus tech tips video on pci express 3.0 vs 4.0 storage and you'll see what I'm talking about I use a super fast nvme today in my pc and when loading onto games I'm always first but I'm not THAT ahead only a few seconds unless the other guy is in hard drive then it seems like FOREVER!
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@hoffa007 wherever they end up expect ps5 and series x to be the same I'm expecting 499. Microsoft won't let them under sell them and the tech even though better on series x isn't so much better that Sony can sell for a ton less.
Though Microsoft still has Lockhart and i feel are holding on to it as a surprise announcement when pricing goes live so they can not only have the most powerful Console but so they can also have the cheapest next gen option too
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@DanM many people who buy these consoles don't buy them for the God of War or the last of us 2 (if they did why are their 120 million ps4 and only a couple million of those games sold?)
They buy these system to play the latest such and such title that all their friends play and the one they've been into for years and now just want the chance to experience at its best. They tend to go where their friends are already at but when you're that friend who is first to next gen it's ultimately up to you where you go and many (just like with ps4 and Xbox one launch) see all the news and articles and videos and comments about how call of duty plays best on ps4 or battlefield runs at 1080p on ps4 struggles at 900p (or less) on Xbox one.
. Those stories influence that guy who is at a juncture and decides if the price isn't more it only makes sense to go where the best place to play the games they care about.
Many people friends of mine included left xbox after years of being there because Sony just made more sense games ran better and played better and it offered it all at a cheaper price.
They weren't making those decisions based on exclusive one and done single players (they had no interest nor was there really anything worth much in the beginning) it was all the cross platform games amd the ones that were their go to's that made them switch they wanted to experience a great version not the mediocre second option.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@Noblevoice are they though only if the chip is running at its MAX POTENTIAL frequency is it around 15% slower were talking 2080s vs 2070 and if you actually see the more stable everyday clocks I think it will be much closer to 30% (9vs12).
Pushong that chip as high as they are it's going to run hot and it's going to get loud especially if they aren't designing case like Microsoft that offers function over form.
If they stick it in something like the dev kit it would be OK but if it's closer to the PS4 pro it's in trouble.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@NevG I'm sorry but when the shoe was on the other foot with ps4 and Xbox one all Sony people could talk about was teraflops. Now that the tides have turned now they want to downplay it? It absolutely matters and it will absolutely show in cross platform titles there will be many a article or video put out saying such and such runs best on series x or such and such is 2160p/60 (XSX) 1440p/30-60 (ps5) I and so on and so forth.
This type of news dominates for some time after launch and it definitely helped a lot of previous xbox owners make the jump to ps4 easier (in addition to Microsofts other blunders).
The system is at minimum 17% faster and due to Sony using vauge max performance quotes could end up up close to 30% lower.
Thise leaked numbers that revealed the Xbox and talked about the PS4 and its multi stage stepping for ps4 BC also said the chip would end up above 2.0ghz and with the same cu that was announced.
The estimated tflops was 9.2 and I feel this is a much closer number to what the ps5 will perform when is really being taxed in your AAA games.
You'll see the higher number when things are calm or you're playing some indie but for the moments that really count the chip is already being pushed well above what the silicon naturally wants to be at.
A 12 vs 9 tflops situation ISN'T nothing.
Again Sony is just making this hard for their own fans and giving everyone a free pass to step all over them.
They should step up and do something g to show what they are truly capable of.
I'm just afraid it will always be to a lesser extent than what microsoft can do.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@Jakovasaur they told you how much about 825 Gb or roughly 20% less than Microsoft
Re: Reaction: PS5 Deep Dive Was As Expected, But Was Shockingly Misjudged
@LN78 it won't be Microsoft isn't going to give Sony that advantage again.
They know what happened last time can't happen this time
They rectified the power shortage now they will eat whatever additional cost just to stay at that alluring other option.
You go 100 more you make it too easy for others to write you off and ignore your superiority.
Re: Round Up: What Was Announced During Sony's PS5 Deep Dive Reveal?
@Odium its absolutely less powerful with MAYBE higher i/o speeds but at the end of the day they'll both be lighting fast compared to before the difference will come down to the things microsoft made sure they were best in.