A new program established by GameStop management may be forcing humble store clerks to lie to you about the availability of brand new games – and it's kinda crazy. Reddit has been bubbling over with reports of the retailer's 'Circle of Life' initiative for a few days now, but Kotaku's ever-excellent Jason Schreier has pulled together all of the threads in a brilliant investigative report.
The program itself is complicated, but allow us to try and break it down. Each store is given quotas across the following commercial activities: pre-orders, reward card subscriptions, used game sales, and game trade-ins. These are determined by the outlet's dealings: pre-orders and reward card subscriptions by net transactions; used game sales and game trade-ins by total dollar value.
So, if a store's quota for used game sales is, for example, 15 per cent, and it sells $1,000 worth of goods, management expects $150 to come from pre-owned items. Make sense? It basically means that for every new game (or item) that a store sells, it'll have to compensate for that by peddling more used games. Are you keeping up?
This wouldn't be so bad if it was just an internal target, but some employees are reportedly being threatened with a termination if the quotas aren't met. And with such pressure coming from the powers to be, it's forcing some stores to resort to scuzzy tactics, such as faking the availability of titles in order to make the numbers add-up.
For example, if you enter a store hoping to buy a sealed copy of Watch Dogs 2, the employee may be encouraged to tell you that it's out of stock because selling the game will put pressure on the store to move even more pre-owned stock. This is a particular problem with high-priced goods like hardware, and at midnight launch events where only new copies of games are being sold.
The whole thing sounds like a complete and utter mess. GameStop appears to be actively discouraging employees from meeting the needs of its customers and driving business to its competitors as a consequence. In a statement, the company said that it will "continue to refine [the program] to provide a great store experience".
Perhaps it should consider dropping it altogether, eh?
[source kotaku.com]
Comments 62
This is insane.
And this is why I don't do business with Gamestop. They are a blight to the video game retail business. The sooner they go out of business the better.
That's awful. I feel bad for the employees, especially the ones that want to be sincere and honest to customers but can't because then they'd be risking their job.
@Tasuki Unfortunately, if they do go out of business, people will lose their jobs. I also think, much like GAME in the UK, gaming needs a dedicated high-street presence.
The management is utterly insane for concocting this scheme, though. This isn't improving business — it's driving it away.
This very concerning because it's just going to encourage more people to go digital only because of practices like this, which in turn gives too much power to the already greedy publishers. It does make you wonder if this has contributed to certain games not selling so well due to new copies been denied sales.
@adf86 There's nothing GameStop can do really, though. Digital is coming whether they like it or not.
So what you're saying is "Gamestop carries on as usual".
My local one is pretty good to me because it's a small location, but I've been to some nasty locations that'll lie through their teeth if it means they can sell you $500 in games you didn't really want in the first place.
@adf86 Everyone is greedy. If the middle man is cut out, publishers can more easily sell their games at a lower price to consumers, and they will have to discount due to price competition from other publishers.
To lend credence to this story — I went to Gamestop at Christmas time and asked to purchase a game new as a gift, on two different occasions, and BOTH times without telling me I was charged $2-3 less and sent home with a pre-owned game (which had been quickly and shiftily placed in my bag). I did not find out on either occasion until I arrived home. I was NOT happy.
@doctommaso That's unacceptable to be honest.
^^^
One time I went to buy a game there and the guy asked if I wanted new or used I said new. When I got home and opened it there were finger prints on the bottom of the disc...
They are beyond shady.
The only time I do business there is to buy PSN cards.
Wow I dunno if there is anyway to defend this. Long live amazon I guess.
Glad I don't go to gamestop anymore. Or kotaku for that matter. That site has more clickbait garbage and poorly executed jokes than Facebook.
They also always try to upsell you as well. I could never just walk in and buy something and leave.
I would have to stand there for five minutes while the guy tried to talk me in to pre-ordering games I have no interest in.
You have struck a nerve with this article Sammy haha.
It sounds to me like Gamestop are trying to turn a-typical retail workers into sales people.
Obviously this is an unforseen consequence of throwing an incentive or pay scheme into the wild. If you don't hit your targets then of course your jobs on the line, as its a sales job. It would be interesting to see the finer details on these targets.
But all the comments and previous stories on Gamestop seem they are happy for unskilled staff to ruin the brands reputation to miss sell products and services in order to fudge sales tracking, in this worst case refusing to sell new games. That cant be good for business.
Not surprised. There are so many horror stories on Gamestop to begin with, but this isn't out of the ordinary. I suppose it's natural that the biggest gaming store chain is as bad as the industry itself.
@doctommaso In theory yes but I doubt things such as Season Passes and microtransactions will go away along with retail and the preowned market.
@adf86 Sadly I'm quite sure you are right.
I haven't visited my local Gamestop in six months. The last time I was there I used some codes that were on my account to get Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 because I didn't feel like paying high prices for it. I walked out having spent $3 on the game. Hue hue.
Anyways, I've read a lot of stories from employees of Gamestop and it makes me happy that places like Amazon and BestBuy offer discounts for games through Prime and the Gamer Club, respectively.
Sure I hate to see physical games disappear because I always love having a case and disc of a game to put on my shelf, but Gamestop losing business and potential stores closing down doesn't bother me the slightest.
Yup, I saw some bs in my time there. Also saw some bs at another retail chain. They try to make it like you're really helping the customer, but you know you're not doing for them. Then it comes down to if you can look yourself in the mirror or not. I wasn't a big fan of working retail, got out and went into something different where I don't have to feel like a scumbag everyday.
My local Gamestop isn't too bad. Most of the employees are reasonably friendly and there's a minimum of up-selling. The company's management is bananas in general, though.
I feel for the ordinary employees and low level management in these stores: I can't imagine having to try and comply with some of these insane initiatives.
During all the Black Friday deals I bought Ratchet & Clank new from Gamestop. I ordered it online and I still got it pre-opened and covered in all their stickers. Even worse, the sticker they use to seal it is SUPER sticky. The case feels disgusting and I've scrubbed it with nail polish remover, rubbing alcohol, windex.. Had multiple price stickers put one on top of the other for each price drop or sale. Clearly didn't just come from a warehouse. Thank God my copy of TLOU Remastered came sealed in the plastic wrap.
They also sell their opened display copy as new when it's their last new copy of the game. This happens a lot because they rarely have a game new after it's been released for a month. You get no discount for it being opened and it's not new because it has been opened and has been handled by customers browsing. how they can get away with that is beyond me. dont sign up for the free power up membership either because it tracks your purchases and the employees use that personal information in their push of the paid power up membership every time you shop there.
Yeah, hey...we don't. Yeah, we'd rather sell used games, but if we get new games, we're gonna sell them. This whole situation has been blown out to hell, and people already have a bias against us because...they do, I guess. I guess it's possible that some places are doing this, but I find it fairly unlikely. Especially for brand new games. Like, we're genuinely sold out of RE7. It sucks, but that's how it is. We're not trying to pull the wool over your eyes or anything. Also, if the option of a pre-owned copy is there, we'll upsell it. I don't see any harm in that, though.
I buy about 2 things a year from Gamestop.
Hearing this confirms I'm doing the right thing.
@Bliquid lol world is small I was not there were they opened that Hard Rock but when there many times.. felt like the most amazing food in the world after months of nothing but italian
Doesn't GameStop also own GAME here in the U.K.?
I went in to get DarkSiders Warmastered edition on launch day, but they only had a preowned copy on the shelf-yes preowned on launch day. Incidentally it was priced at £14.99, the RRP for a new copy. When I went to the counter they tried selling me that copy, because they were 'all sold out'. When I threatened to take my business elsewhere they popped out and came back with a sealed copy, also priced at £14.99.
@get2sammyb GAME have sold me opened games as new in the past. Usually older games. However all the online codes always work. Why do they do this? Is this still a new copy or are they selling me preowned games?
GameStop has always and will always suck.
@Fight_Teza_Fight They do that kind of stuff all of the time. I remember when I was younger they charged me full price for a used copy of Super Mario Galaxy and kept claiming it was new.
I worked for GameStop last holiday season and they were really adamant about us meeting those numbers! They told us to always start with "would you like this game pre owned?"
And I personally don't want to have a used game, I like for it to be new, chrisp, and clean. Not touched by anyone, but that's just me!
Luckily the store I worked at never did any of the crazy things people are saying in the comments!
Morons. Usually when I bother to pop in a store if its not there I'll ask and if its out of stock I walk, I don't ever buy something else. If a cheaper copy is available then I'll buy it, I don't care if its second hand.
@Fight_Teza_Fight I used to work in HMV, and for a long time, brand new games were removed from their plastic, the disc and manual/other literature removed, and the empty boxes placed on the shelf with a price sticker and "This Box Is Empty" sticker. The discs and manuals were kept behind the counter in plastic bags in alphabetical order. This practice was done for the sake of security, ensuring that games weren't stolen. In that sense it was a success, but otherwise, it was an absolute nightmare.
The games were absolutely brand new, but try telling that to someone buying their child a Christmas present. It was fairly rare but sometimes people questioned whether the games were new. Another issue was the discs/manuals sometimes going missing, because staff members would put them back in the wrong place or simply misplaced them among the chaos that can occur behind the tills. After a little while I inherited responsibility for the games section of the store, and the loose discs causing near-constant issues was such a headache.
Eventually we moved onto keeping them in their original plastic and security tagging them. This had its own pros and cons, but at the very least, it meant people couldn't question the newness of their game and they definitely had a copy inside the box.
Wow, sorry, went off on one a bit there! Point is, GAME was probably doing the same thing - removing the game from its box for security purposes.
Regarding this GameStop nonsense, it's absolutely ludicrous. I would've 100% refused to play by these rules. Flat out lying to customers is unacceptable, let alone immoral.
@Quintumply Thanks for your reply. That's a load of my mind. As a student 95% of my PS3 library was preowned, but now that I'm working I try to buy new whenever possible.
The worst thing that could happen to gaming is if brick and mortar stores would go away. In my opinion, they are the ones that reach out to the general public and keep the industry growing.
Oh my god, so a major retail chain store was putting profit before customer service and staff welfare?!!!
Kudos to the shop staff who are trying to get around their computer-generated targets and management-generated toxic working environment.
Amazon also treat their workers like s**t too though. Just buy digital I say.
Here in Italy they set small shops in big malls, so incompetent parents and kids still spend money there. Any reasonable player above 18 don't even enter. Luckly in my small town there's still an indie shop, but the owner had to focus on retrogaming since most buy phisical games on Amazon or in big electronic shops.
@Quintumply GAME absolutely were doing the same thing; I worked there between 2009-2012. Also, we were told by regional managers to say new games were out of stock and to only sell pre-owned copies. We were also put on zero hour contracts, given strict quotas of pre-owned sales, accessory sales, and warranty add-ons, and if we didn't hit them, they would just take away all of our hours. It was a nightmare, and I had to live in a flat share with some really crappy people because I couldn't rent a flat for myself without guaranteed hours.
@get2sammyb This strategy by GameStop may well be driving away business, but they might actually make more money from it. I know when I was at GAME we were told to sell pre-owned games because the amount of profit we made on each game was much higher than selling it new. If I remember correctly, the regional manager at the time said that they only made 5% of any new game sale.
"That's with the Season Pass right?....and the Official Guide......keyring?"
@Jake3103 Blimey, that sounds horrendous. The worst rubbish I had to deal with from the HMV big wigs was when they introduced a store loyalty card, and we had to hit sales targets. I refused to recommend the cards to people because they were truly awful. The benefits were total rubbish, and you had to spend a fortune before you got anything back.
More on topic, that's a good point regarding profit margins on games. I remember them being very small. Compared to new games, second-hand stuff was a goldmine.
I worked at gamestop for three years as a manager, this has been their practice all along. I'm surprised you're just now reporting on this.
@get2sammyb If a store is terrible it needs to go and make room for a better stores. We had a few stores who stayed in the past and the ones that did adapt made it. If a store wants tot keep its doors open. They need to bring service to stay open to.
@Jake3103 I've no doubt they make more money from pre-owned stuff, but surely there's a better way of promoting that than putting your staff in a position where they have to lie about the availability of games.
Surely GameStop would rather the 5% of a new game went to them than to a competitor who'll be more than happy to sell the game?
I don't buy from physical 'retailers' anymore. The last time I went into Game to buy a 'brand new' released that day copy of a game, the staff on the till was pushing its 2nd hand stock of that game - yes ON THE DAY OF RELEASE.
I can't recall the exact price or exactly which game it was now, but the store member took my game and disappeared for a second - I assumed to get the new 'sealed' version from stock as I only had an empty case. When he returned, he had in his hands a 2nd hand version and offering to sell it to me for £2 less than the NEW game, that also had a guaranteed working physical code for a bonus cosmetic item in it. After saying NO about 3-4 times, he ducked down under the till, opened a drawer and pulled out a new sealed copy of the game I wanted. I could see a LOT of copies in that drawer too so he never needed to go out back and get a 2nd hand version at all. After buying, I went to look at some 'games' on a shelf nearby - or at least pretended too and noticed he was doing the same thing with other customers attempting to buy New.
I went to CoD's MW3 midnight launch at Game too. Whilst they weren't so 'blatant' as this, whilst in the line waiting to pick up my pre-ordered 'hardened' edition, Thos buying the standard version where each asked if they wanted a 2nd hand version instead for around £2 less. I wasn't asked because I had a pre-ordered Hardened edition but those in front and behind picking up the standard version were.
Personally I think there should be a BAN on retailers selling 2nd hand games for a set period of time after release. 3 months seems reasonable. That doesn't stop gamers from 'trading' or selling privately if they really don't want/like the game or from retailers accepting them as part of a trade-in - just from selling them or pushing them over newly released games. If in breach of this, they should be heavily fined - like selling 18 rated games to a minor.
I can understand why from a retailers perspective as the profit margin is likely to be significantly higher on 2nd hand games but that doesn't make it acceptable. What makes it worse is that the managers or CEO are punishing their Staff unless they do.
I would say boycott these stores, at least from buying 2nd hand and standard versions of games. I appreciate we are often forced to buy certain 'collectors' editions from these retailers as they are often the only place to buy. However that might hurt the CEO's but most likely the staff are going to be the ones more affected and lose their jobs long before any real impact is felt by the CEO's etc. I am sure they will still get their Money and live in the luxury they have become accustomed to. At worst, they will end up selling out and getting a big payday from it too where as the staff will just be made redundant.
However, I think if they did bring in some laws governing the sale of 2nd hand games - like a period of time that they are banned from selling 2nd hand content after release (could apply to other media like books, DVD/Blurays and CDs/Vinyl), that would be beneficial to the industry as a whole and maybe change how Gamestop (and others) operate. Even online retailers and those with 'stores' on sites like Ebay should be subject to this law. That doesn't affect our rights as 'private' owners/sellers of course.
One of the industries biggest complaints is the 2nd hand market. If a law was brought in to protect the Publishers/Developers etc to have the right to sell their IP for a set time without being undercut by the 2nd Hand market, that could have a knock on benefit to us too.
game is terrible here only way I use it is online as hate there stores & tactics. But look at it this way if you game on the pc you use gog (great site) greenman (another good one) steam (going down hill) & an ea one so been so long like this that it dosent make a difference anymore. Only physical thing I get is dvds for kids as they like picking the movie case out.
Why wouldn't they just focus on total revenue goals? Why worry about where the revenue comes from? Seems so unnecessary.
Is this really how it works? They used to allocate hours based on game guarantee and used game sales but no one was outright terminated for low numbers. I don't trust kotaku on this or much else honestly.
Tbis is nothing new. At all. It's been like this as far back as the Wii days!
Heck, I remember when during the GameCube days that Gamestop would open new copies and sell them with no case or booklets.
I have't bought a game from gamestop since then! I only go for the novelty items or rarely, the systems.
@Tasuki
I would rather that they become a responsible, respectable retailer and the shop staff keep their jobs, but with their history of poor management decisions, I doubt it will happen.
I worked at a GS for a little over a year. I completely believe this. They treat their employees like crap, and def have unscrupulous business practices.
Originally we were to take any used disc no matter how scratched, try to buff it and resell. Wouldn't believe how many of those got returned. Numerous nights of working off the clock to keep the store looking nice and operable. In the end I was let go for giving an ex-store mananger a discount when I didn't know he was no longer working for the company. After all the nights, and having highest subs/pre-orders in the area that's how I got treated.
Meanwhile, a new manager they switched us to (thought he was temp) proceeds to steal a misshipped box of Rock Band 3 kits that were intended for Walmart. Smh....
I'd be annoyed about this, but Gamestop will be out of business in a few years anyway.
@Fight_Teza_Fight I've had GAME try to give me second hand games in the past, even where the price is identical or nearly identical. One guy said, it's the same game and price so don't worry. I nearly flipped.
From what I understand, used games are becoming less and less a market force. Previous gen, most of my games were second hand. This gen, most of mine have been brand new or digital .
another issue with this kind of scummy dealing is that the publisher and developers get less too as 100% of the money from a used game sale goes to the store, their sales are affected and it might seem like the game is selling less than it is thus the chance of getting sequels are diminished
i guess this is one of the reasons publishers are trying to push digital games to cut a******* businesses like gamestop and GAME (the UK equivalent) from abusing their position
@Rudy_Manchego I think that's probably the case with the push for Day 1 editions and digital incentives.
TBH I quite like my GAME. Aside from the DarkSiders incident (preowned, same RRP, launch day), they only ever tried making me buy preowned once...DS3 £24 new or DS3 £21 used...no thanks I'd rather support the developer.
The thing that really has to stop is the £1 disc cover for a year. They are all over that in my store.
I always get my PSN cards from there though. £1 back with game rewards for every £50.
My first thought was that this wouldn't be that bad if the price of used games was fair. For most games, there's only a $1 difference between used and new games. If it's only a $1, I'll always want the new copy instead of someone else's copy complete with "bite mark in case" or scratches. However, I don't get when people whine about how much credit they receive when they trade games in there. If you don't like the price they give you, or the eventual sale price of the game compared to what you got, don't trade your games in! I'm happy I have the option to trade in games I don't play anymore. I'm not a collector and at some point enough is enough when it comes to owning stuff. But this is also why I kind of prefer downloading games now.
Now my second thought was that these are some very low tactics.....but welcome to Corporate America....I mean, Corporate World! This isn't the first time a corporation has pulled a stunt like this and it won't be the last. All they care about are the numbers, employees mean absolutely nothing.....in fact, you as an employee are just a number.
@Fight_Teza_Fight I get most of my PSN Vouchers there too as I've had a reward card for years.
@Tasuki yeah I haven't run into these issues personally but I can see it happening 😗. I think Amazon is much safer bet
@dkxcalibur totally true talk with your wallet! I regret trading in some games but if I really love them buy digital when on sale later .
@doctommaso Wow!
Having worked at GAME here in the UK, I can assure you this isnt unique to GameStop sadly.
Which ultimately led to GAME making poor investment decisions and led them to almost go under.
There are many incentives for many people that will always encourage custom in specialist stores, and its that keyword, specialist.
Sure the rise of digital is certainly a real thing but many still enjoy purchasing physical, and they make for better gifts and such.
They do push for many things, sometimes a bit too much, such as GameCare and DiskCare, both of which I have personally purchased and both of which I have used.
DiskCare in my personal opinion is well worth the cost, a quid to repair or replace a game is the best value youll ever see.
For example, when I moved home, a box got dropped onto a 2 day old copy of Dark Souls 3, had a huge crack across the centre, replaced for essentially £1.
The common misconception that "if I buy preowned, Im depriving the developer and publisher of profit".
Not even close to true, unless bought DIRECTLY from the publisher themselves they arent getting money from you.
All retail copies of games sold in a highstreet store or any other third party are purchased at wholesale, from the publisher prior to launch by the company at the point of sale to the customer, and any money made from the sale in store is store/company profit.
Buying preowned makes absolutely no difference to that margin.
@Fight_Teza_Fight The final 2 copies of a game are always opened and their "guts" locked in the cabinet so the boxes can be placed on a shelf.
The point being its easy to see when you are almost out of stock.
@BladeRider
Last item I got from Amazon turned out to be a fake, one before that was clearly second hand.
Be wary of Amazon. 😄
Unfortunately with the pressure of the Internet retail tactics to push selling is only getting higher. In this case they are hurting themselves though and should definitely revamp their strategy. I would not like anyone to lose their jobs either from closing or sales pressure.
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