I often forget most gamers don't check gaming news daily and have no real grasp of developers, development cycles, development capabilities, or release cadence.

Which is to say: obviously this won't we out soon and I highly doubt it'll even launch in the next two years. But, I suppose it's fair Skyrim's 15-years-ago release would inform people otherwise.

@Oram77 Nah, I agree with you here.

The 7th gen was the start of safe generic bets dominating the industry. But there was still A LOT of experimental stuff that generation. Even if art direction didn't always reflect that.

'Twas the era of motion controls, touch screen games, the last bastion of reasonable budgets, burgeoning competitive scenes. I mean, indie really started that generation! Even Call of Duty 4 was a big gamble at the time. It's hard to imagine seeing stuff like Wet or Dark Sector nearly as frequently these days. Or Telltale, Wii Sports, Gears, Portal,etc,etc.

@Bob_Tempura Xbox definitely had the misguided idea that if they make games people will come.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. I adore they they were letting these studios make whatever, but they really needed to put more effort into making the 'next BIG thing.'

@ShadowRJ This is why I think the Hollywood Renaissance business model is the only one that makes sense for art industries. Ya make a blockbuster that's as close of a guarantee as possible and used the presumed profits to fund a handful of smaller, high-risk projects with the hope that they blow up.

Really seemed like it worked... Although the move away from physical releases did throw the movie equilibrium out of whack.

@get2sammyb Didn't we just have an article congratulating Sony over a rumor that they're exploring outsourcing legacy IP? Is that a good or bad thing?

And doesn't SoM's poor PS5 sales undermine the recent narrative that E-Day should've launched on PS5? If PS5 — and even Switch 2 — didn't save the presumably much cheaper SoM, why are we assuming E-Day could've turned around its misfortune with a PS5 port?

I honestly quite resent both these narratives. PlayStation can make PaRappa and Ape Escape a success with enough effort and luck. Rhythm Heaven blew up in Japan and the indie space is filled with rhythmic success stories. And Ape Escape could've easily endured if Sony didn't start slapping the name onto mediocre games for a decade.

PLUS, doesn't the whole narrative that GamePass destroys sales potential mean that SoM or any Xbox Studios game isn't a great analog for Sony's AA prospects?

Are people still in denial about the death of this thing?

@The_Elder Looks boring...

Okay, there's a lot of different reasons why. Personally, I haven't been able to get into a R* game since Red Dead Redemption 1. GTAV didn't do much for me, and living in a post-BotW/Elden Ring world really makes their stuff look antiquated. Never gave Red Dead 2 a fair shot, but the first 2 hours reinforced what I don't like about their games. And NOTHING they've shown for VI has done anything to convince me otherwise — in fact, I'd say VI's marketing is complete s*** and totally reliant on the myth of GTAVI.

I think a lot of other people are just turned off by the overwhelming hype. Which, I admit, even has me rolling my eyes.

@Northern_munkey Am I? Seems like you're making the point that Balaam_'s aversion to buying digital is nonsensical when 50% of the game data or more will be downloaded rather than on the disc. And hence, there's no greater sense of ownership to the physical copy compared to the digital license.

While I'm making the point that it's still a more secure method of keeping access to a game. And, most importantly, who really gives a f*** how he spends his money or values his purchases.

@Northern_munkey Shrugs

Even so, a disc is essentially a hard copy of a license. So there's still more protections in place therein regardless of how equally dependant it might be to service closures.

@IamJT I don't know that I'd say it was the "core gaming audience" was the one s***ing on Wolverine. I had zero hype for it and resent that Insomniac isn't doing something else, and even I thought the hate was overblown.

EDIT: I think there's a certain kind of pseudo-hardcore gamer that's more susceptible to hate fads. The kind of gamer that's mostly informed by YouTube and TikTok.

@LogicStrikesAgain It does look like I was wrong to doubt PB0. At least according to reviews. It's still entirely possible I won't f*** with it.

Point is, I definitely would've ended up picking it up if my holiday game money wasn't already spent.

@Northern_munkey I mean, he would own a disc with code on it. Not sure if that's what you mean — literal computer code copied onto a disc — or if you're implying its physical release will be A CODE IN A BOX. But that seems entirely unlikely given it's a delayed release and they made a little announcement about it.

Anyway, personally, I'm not paranoid about losing all my digital licenses. But it's definitely a possibility, and owning a hard copy of that data is a much stronger guarantee that you'll keep it indefinitely. So no judgement towards those that passionately value physical.

Mmm...none.

Switch 2 won this holiday. I got Fire Emblem, Fatal Fury, and have Ocarina and Stellar Blade (on S2) pre-ordered. I think 1 more game, but I can't remember...

I will buy Ratchet & Clank as soon as the port launches, though. And did buy Secret Agent Clank in anticipation for it. Which I somewhat regret after playing it for a couple hours.

And no GTAVI. Don't really care.

I guess that State of Play showing went well.

I really don't understand putting video game marketing on the same platforms as actual cinema, though. If I'm going to Alamo, I'm not going to watch game trailers. And if I'm opening Netflix, I'm not there to watch gameplay. Maybe there's just a generational disconnect going on...

With that said, if you have to pay to watch an advertisement, I'm inclined to call this stupid.

@naruball I dunno that I would say I meant it as a rhetorical question despite how I worded it like one. I guess more accurate phrasing would have been, "am I the only one HERE that..." As far as I was concerned when I wrote that, crashing/overheating are widespread issues. And I was curious if this audience just isn't aware of that — or maybe if it truly is rare enough that it hasn't affected anyone here.

Anyway, seemed like there were quite a lot of people who have had similar issues, so I might rethink the assumption that it's not widespread. Also, regardless of my intent, if you meant to say, 'I'm sure people have experienced similar issues, but I doubt it's frequent enough to be considered a pattern,' you could've probably worded that better than saying it was, in fact, just me. I mean, was that supposed to be a rhetorical answer, then?

@Weez Didn't really wanna give PSOne props for polygonal rendering since everyone was working on the tech at the time and the Saturn beat it to market. Also, I don't know that I'd necessarily count it as "incredible" design.

But sure, I'll concede that point appropos PSOne.

@NessunDorma I don't think anyone said that, but okay.

Can't help but feel like this has way more to do with Capcom dominating PC markets rather than physical on consoles being low in demand.

And even besides that, like I've said in the past, that 8% physical is still profit. It's not like that's unrealized money.

@Porco I don't really care about the comparison, just the statement that Sony's consoles are "incredible." Which, I'd argue, implies they are well beyond serviceable and with little to no flaws.

To indulge your comparison: I mean, most of your comment is just about aesthetics. Which we can talk about, but I don't think has much barring on actual intrinsic quality. The recentish Atari VCS was a gorgeous looking console, but that doesn't mean it was a good console. And it's all really just objective, innit? I think the PS4 looks a little overstated, and the 4Pro actively stupid. The PS5 WAY too big and try-hard. The 3Slim is good, but the 3Phat pretty awkward. The OG Xbox is also big and awkward, but I think has more charm to it than the 5. 360 looks solid. X1 was good conceptually, even though it took a redesign before it really looked right. And the XSS is great — the XSX bad. But people can agree or disagree with any of that.

The Red Ring was absolutely a massive fumble for Xbox and worse than anything on PlayStation's side. But that does not absolve any issues PlayStations have had.

@PuppetMaster It's very weirdly specific overheating. It only happens when I'm playing specific online games. And seemingly gets worse when I charge a controller while playing online (which I only just discovered last month).

Which isn't to say you're wrong. I just play games online so rarely, it's never been enough of an issue for me to go all ifixit on its a$$. And this is actually a replacement console (my first one had a 50% chance of crashing when it went into sleep mode), so I assumed it didn't have a warranty. And now, if it did, it's definitely expired. And I don't wanna pay to fix it, so I'm just dealing. Hoping we get a PS5 Slim...er that I can replace it with. Or maybe a Pro Slim at a manageable price, if that ever happens.

@johnedwin And Nintendo and SEGA had portable consoles before the PSP. I'm not getting your point.

Unless the PS6 is a hybrid console with a dock. In which case, you should be bringing up the PSPGo

@Wiceheid Thank you for doing the Lord's work.

@NessunDorma I dunno, man, I really don't have the energy to address all this.

You completely misunderstood what I was saying (I literally never said Sony can't make consoles or games... I don't know who you're projecting onto me...). And get quite a few things wrong ("orange ring"? "Yellow ring"? Definitely don't think games started running better on PS3 after the first year — maybe towards the end of the generation. But I don't really care to fact-check that).

@Amnesiac I did when I installed the SSD. But it seemed to overheat just the same when I got it, cleaned it, and neglected it. So it really didn't feel worth the effort.

@Mikeg1965 "Let's stay on target."
LEAVES

Honestly, mad respect for this move.

I guess I won't deconstruct what I saw as the relevant half. Oh well. Sufficed to say, I wasn't really convinced. But it seems like we were arguing different things, anyway.

@Mikeg1965 Are you sure the important part isn't "half"?

My use of interjections really doesn't change the contents of that statement.

@naruball You say that it's just me, but I know overheating, particularly while in a standing position, is definitely a thing.

@Mikeg1965 Only, like, half of those relate to hardware...

@Mikeg1965 Or you can explain it. That tends to be a much better way to make a point than passing on the burden.

I was a bit reductive of disks, as they were a HUGE innovation that functionally changed game design and single-handedly rocked Nintendo's boat. But still, not a terribly impressive console outside of that. As far as I know. There was also the Dualshock, but PlayStation wasn't the first console with rumble or analog sticks. Just the first one with the contemporary configuration we still use (I'm pretty sure, at least).

@get2sammyb If we consider hardware and software, definitely. If we're just taking hardware — well, at the very least, there's not much that sets them apart from their main competitors.

@naruball As someone who's replaced sticks on Joy-Con and the Dualsense, I think crashing 6 times a year is a significantly bigger issue than drift.

The DS is honestly...SO f***ing easy to open, you'd be surprised.

"But let’s not forget that Sony tends to make incredible consoles"

Am I the only one that's had multiple PS5s with crashing/overheating issues? And, I mean, if we really wanted to get into it, the PS3 was notoriously difficult to develop for. The PS2 was the weakest console of its generation by quite a lot. The PSOne had disks, but that's really all that it offered above competition.

Can't really think of anything bad about the PS4 or Vita, though. At least hardware-wise. I guess the Vita had proprietary storage, but I wouldn't knock it too hard for that.

I mean, sales are trending downward for all of gaming. The PS5 having a good month doesn't negate that, nor will its presumably strong November.

There might be a more important trend going on here than minimizing consumer outage...

@Matroska Ehh, not really the same thing. I mean, first and foremost, a think quite a lot of people who ardently support physical games would, indeed, enjoy getting gaming magazines. The value proposition, however, is entirely different. Owning a piece of art in a form wherein ownership is more guaranteed is very different from owning a physical copy of a news story readily available for free on the Internet. The immediacy of getting news online also adds to the loss of value in print media.

There's just...a LOT of nuance here. For instance, I buy games digitally, but have gotten every physical issue of A Profound Waste of Time. I've even been thinking about subbing to Game Informer to curb my habit of checking game sites daily. And just because physical magazines make me really nostalgic.

There's a multitude of different reasons one might want physical games but be fine with online news coverage. This was never really a question of all-physical vs. all-digital, anyway. Physical games are more about ownership. Physical magazines are really just a novelty.

@HonestHick WHAT?! 8 million? Without PlayStation? On GamePass Day 1? Localized entirely within your kitchen? But I've been told all those things are a death sentence.

Huh, almost like confirmation bias is a thing. And Xbox titles' low sales are much more complicated than GamePass or exclusivity...

Oh well — let's get more articles about how much GamePass sucks!

@8th_Observer I think my analogies are always quite apt and logically flowing. But we can agree to disagree there, I suppose.

Sure, you can say that's a part of it. But Microsoft is also much richer than Sony, so one might assume they can suffer much lower margins. More importantly, though, I struggle to see the sustainability in either case.

And, to elaborate on the PlayStation-focused frustration, I've been told many times before that PlayStation NEEDS sub-billion dollar games to have any chance of selling. Following that logic, that Xbox's fruitful AA attempts throughout the last half-decade haven't amounted to much should necessitate big-risk, big-dollar games. Therefore, the question arises: what the hell else are they supposed to do? I mean, besides listen to me and not hinge their bets on IP no one cares about anymore.

The problem here is that budget — if true. The PS5 port is irrelevant. And even if that was distributed throughout other projects and operations, still pretty dire when E-Day is ostensibly all they have to show for it.

Now, do we all agree games cost too much now? Or is it still smart when Sony does it?

@Rich33 Judgmental is definitely not the right word. 'Presumptuous' might be more what you were looking for.

And my comment was indeed assuming a lot of things. Just, in my estimation, that's how the casual audience would feel about the value of a phone to a game console. The main point is that the intrinsic value IS different, so saying people comfortable with buying one should be comfortable with buying the other on the basis of them being similarly expensive is a false equivalence.

Personally, I'm very pragmatic about my phones. I think of them as fairly disposable, and don't see the point in investing in horsepower for something I mostly use for web browsing and...ya know, phone stuff. So I try to keep my phones in the $200-400 range. I'm also a hardcore gamer, and probably spend an average of $1000-2000 a year on games and game-related paraphernalia. But, IMPORTANTLY, I'm not the average consumer. And I don't expect the average consumer to have anything similar to my priorities when it comes to games and ubiquitous tech.

@Anthony_Daniels False equivalence. Different tech, different demos, different value propositions. Heck, different purchasing methods, as I'd assume a very, VERY small fraction of people interested in uber-pricy phones are paying upfront.

For a lot of people, a phone is a fashion accessory. Or a status symbol. Or the entire center of their work. It's generally valued above a computer specialized for playing a specific set of video games. A phone is also a tool that everyone is expected to have in the modern day. Many would see it as more sensible to splurge on something necessary rather than something unimportant. E.g., if you have to get a washing machine, ya might as well get a really good one. But an air fryer? Ehh, probably just get something decent.

@psmr Well, when you say 'literal,' I read 'lateral.'

So I think we can agree we've both made our fair share of mistakes.

@LogicStrikesAgain All good. Like I said, it's not like Xbox has earned being called 'physical friendly.' Honestly, it's easy to say they both kinda suck in those regards — and Sony's move is a big hit therein, since they've been one of the consistently good ones up until a few months ago.

@psmr Well, PC gamers owned it after Yahtzee made a joke outta them. Not sure if that constitutes making it 'cool.'

Although, I also wouldn't associate PC loyalists with Nazis. As you said, there's been plenty of self-aggrandizing groups throughout history. And eugenics was only a part of their schtick, maybe, 25% of the time.

@LogicStrikesAgain Yeah. That's basically how I framed it in my first response to the golden god.

I'm just saying: saying Sony does physical BETTER than Microsoft entails ignoring the future reality that they will soon be doing NOTHING physical.

@8th_Observer Well, it depends on the circumstance. Transparency is great, but doesn't absolve action. Look at the current US president for some of that dynamic.

The disc-to-digital program is also just...a good feature. It's definitely not a passive-aggressive alternative to Sony's bluntness. Indeed, it's far from a commitment to physical. But it leaves the opportunity for it.

@8th_Observer I guess...

Dunno if they deserve much credit for coming out and saying it. If two people stole $1000 dollars from me (no, I'm not saying going all-digital is the equivalent to stealing), but one of them forewarned me, I wouldn't really feel any better about it

@LogicStrikesAgain Sure. And it's too early to give Microsoft credit here.

But, fact remains, there's hope for Xbox. No hope for PlayStation. So saying PlayStation is better in that regard doesn't make too much sense.

@DennisReynolds I mean, "far more" is a pretty debatable term to use.

Sony's support of physical has, so far, been better than Microsoft's. But you can't just ignore that Sony — not Microsoft — has announced its intentions to go full on digital.

@wilky Just get li'l Timmy a Switch 2 Pokemon bundle next year.

...Ooh, boy. That might be somewhat of a problem for Sony and Microsoft, come to think of it.

@johnedwin I'm talking about the Helix.

The thing this article is saying might be priced at $1800.

To echo what a lot of people have said about PCs, I'd rather get a $1800 powerhouse with functionality beyond a console than a $1000 moderately-stronger-than-the-PS5 PS6.

But also... I'm still perfectly happy with a PS5 and Switch 2.