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Topic: Team [404 - Team Name Not Found] Deliberation Station

Posts 261 to 280 of 496

RogerRoger

@Frigate Sorry, I just read my post back and I come across as being a bit of a dismissive jerk towards your rankings; that wasn't my intention, apologies. I'm really pleased to have some balance and diversity, because otherwise I'd feel guilty in basically saying "right everybody, follow me" and dictating everything, so please don't feel the need to support my (desperately-trying-to-remain-impartial) analysis.

Interesting that you only ever watched your wife play them all. Whilst I'm not really one for watching others play games anyway, I'd imagine LEGO games are even less watchable than your average streamer fodder. You never felt the urge to drop in with a second controller and help out?

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Frigate

@RogerRoger You're not being dismissive at all. 😁

I help her out if she's struggling, of course but I don't really feel the urge to play cooperatively. Seeing so many played over the years has kind of killed any interest I may have had of dipping a toe in myself.

Frigate

Jaz007

I’ve played LEGO Batman and both of the first Star Wars Clone Wars Games (which I believe makes up the complete saga). I’ve played some of LEGO Indiana Jones 2 (tiny bit of first one too) and LEGO Harry Potter 1-4. First two LEGO games, the two SW ones, are great games. New and classic. Batman was good but also ran the formula out. Then Harry Potter was more of the same, not important at best. LEGO Indiana Jones 2 tries to innovate combat but ended up making a total and complete mess. Pointless and as I understand rehashed the first one a lot too. I barely remember the first one.
I’m not sure whether to say the Lego SW; The Complete Saga is existing or important. It was a great game, but also a later collection and release. So important or existing, not sure.
And I never played it, but LEGO Dimensions is a money and blood sucking parasite to gaming with it’s toys and locking basic content behind them, so it makes me want to say pointless.

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

Th3solution

Here are my votes. I’m mostly relying on other people’s reports.

Just Dance 2015 - Existing
Just Dance 2016 - Not Important
Just Dance 2017 - Not Important
Just Dance 2018 - Not Important
Kung Fu Rider - Pointless
L.A. Noire - Important
Lair - Important
Last Rebellion - Pointless
Legendary - Not Important
Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole - Not Important
The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel - Very Important
The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel 2 - Very Important
The Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon - Existing
Legends of War: Patton - Not Important
Lego Batman: The Videogame - Existing
Lego Batman 2: DC Super Heroes - Important
Lego Batman 3: Beyond Gotham - Not Important
LEGO Dimensions Starter Pack - Existing
Lego Harry Potter: Years 1-4 - Existing
Lego Harry Potter: Years 5-7 - Existing
Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures- Existing
Lego Indiana Jones 2: The Adventure Continues - Pointless
LEGO Jurassic World - Pointless
The LEGO Movie Videogame - Not Important
LEGO Lord Of The Rings - Not Important
LEGO Marvel's Avengers - Existing
Lego Marvel Super Heroes - Important
Lego Pirates of the Caribbean: The Video Game - Not Important
Lego Rock Band - Pointless
Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga - Existing
Lego Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Pointless
Lego Star Wars III: The Clone Wars - Very Important

Edited on by Th3solution

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

themcnoisy

Final votes

Just Dance 2015 - Existing
Just Dance 2016 - Not Important
Just Dance 2017 - Not Important
Just Dance 2018 - Pointless
Kung Fu Rider - Pointless
🎮 L.A. Noire - Important
Lair - Important
Last Rebellion - Pointless
🎮 Legendary - Not Important
Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole - Not Important
🎮 The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel - Very Important
The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel 2 - Very Important
The Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon - Existing
Legends of War: Patton - Not Important
🎮 Lego Batman: The Videogame - Existing
Lego Batman 2: DC Super Heroes - Important
Lego Batman 3: Beyond Gotham - Not Important
🎮 LEGO Dimensions Starter Pack - Existing
Lego Harry Potter: Years 1–4 - Not Important
Lego Harry Potter: Years 5-7 - Existing
🎮 Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures- Existing
Lego Indiana Jones 2: The Adventure Continues - Pointless
🎮 LEGO Jurassic World - Pointless
The LEGO Movie Videogame - Not Important
LEGO Lord Of The Rings - Not Important
🎮 LEGO Marvel's Avengers - Not Important
🎮 Lego Marvel Super Heroes - Important
Lego Pirates of the Caribbean: The Video Game - Not Important
Lego Rock Band - Pointless
🎮 Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga - Existing
Lego Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Pointless
Lego Star Wars III: The Clone Wars - Very Important


Sorry about not replying yesterday. I was rushed into ozy. Anyway I'm better now so here's my final thoughts.

Edited on by themcnoisy

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TowaHerschel7

@themcnoisy Why the lower rating for Trails of Cold Steel II? It does everything the first game does, but better. Plus it adds a ton of additional features and gameplay elements and all of which are absolutely brilliant!

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themcnoisy

@TowaHerschel7 No idea Rukky. I will edit that now.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

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PSN: mc_noisy

ZeD

@themcnoisy
Lego Harry Potter: Years 1–4 - Not Important
Lego Harry Potter: Years 5-7 - Existing
I am sure these were the 1st LEGO games that had an open world feel to them? They were both excellent games. They were basically the same game split into two games so I do not understand why they are in different categories? I would argue that they are important. For me they are on the same level as Lego Marvel Superheroes.

Also whilst we talk about Lego, what makes the Clone Wars better than the Complete Saga? I tried to play the Clone wars but could not get into it as I had no understanding of the story of the Clone Wars.
The Complete Saga was a complete package that told a story through the original method of slap stick humor (before voices were added to Lego games that is).
If it is that it offered something amazing that makes it better than the Complete Saga, that is fine but if that s the case, Lego Marvel Superheroes needs to be Very Important as it is the best Lego game on the PS3.

Edited on by ZeD

Staff Writer @ www.otakugamers.uk
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Th3solution

@ZeD The genesis of the LEGO Star Wars games’ ranks is in comment #243 from @RogerRoger . He breaks it down and has a pretty compelling case for Clone Wars, and Complete Saga. Marvel Superheroes has been bounced around I think in a couple comments and ‘important’ seemed a decent consensus as I interpreted it.
As for Harry Potter, the trend for both games was ‘existing’ according to research since Rog had not played it due to not being a fan of the source material. But then comment #264 came in where @Jaz007 has actually played the first Harry Potter game and deemed it ‘not important’ as he felt it was somewhat derivative apparently. So I went with that but left HP 5-7 existing since Jaz didn’t sound like he had actual experience with the second game so it would be best to leave it to more of a research based consensus. The fact that playing HP1-4 didn’t inspire him enough to play HP 5-7 is telling as to the first game’s lack of influence though. Nevertheless, I’m open to suggestions here on all of the above if you’ve played them.

The inherent problem with these LEGO games is the licensed nature of their narrative and thematic content. I think it’s so hard to be objective about the games themselves. Being either a big fan or not of the movie or series it’s based on undoubtedly taints one’s views and enjoyment of the game. The discussion and comments about the game’s heretofore have tried to be pretty objective though, so I give credence to my fellow users who have first hand experience with the game in question.

So I am fine with re-evaluation of my scores if need be. Maybe a little more detail in response to what Rog and Jaz said earlier about the Star Wars and Harry Potter games? I must say, I am a little confused at especially the HP games having such a wide range of opinion.

(It should be noted that I personally haven’t played any and really have no interest in any LEGO games. Much like the Cabela games or the FIFA games I would be tempted to just call the whole lot ‘existing’ and be done with it because to my uninterested eye they all look the same. I know that’s a biased and unfair opinion though so I defer to wiser counsel from the group)

Edited on by Th3solution

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

ZeD

@Th3solution
I find it hard to believe that the Clone Wars is rated higher than the Marvel Superheroes one. It just seems so crazy! Personally I would swap the around.
As for the Harry Potter games, they stuck to the source material very well, had a funny script and some interesting gameplay elements that helped evolve the puzzles. The second game was slightly better than the 1st as it felt like they really fine tuned the engine. It is the same for The Lord of The Rings one. Again, not important feels harsh but it did come out when maybe eveyone was sick of the 'old' Lego formula (which was changed hugely with the release of Marvel SuperHeroes)

For some reference (Meta critic);
Lego Harry 1- 4 / 80
Lego Harry 5-7 / 76
Lego Marvel Superhero / 82
Lego Star Wars Clone War / 76

If you just used those scores as research, the placements will be very different. That is all I am bringing up. And if you compare the meta critic scores for the Lego Batman games, they line up perfectly to your placements

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RogerRoger

@ZeD This'll be a quick and dirty reply as I'm on the road, so apologies if I come across a little brusque, but I wanted to put some of the last two pages of this into context.

The critic scores are a good starting point with the LEGO games but @themcnoisy made an excellent point before we started, namely that the source material for each (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Batman, etc.) is highly subjective and plays a huge role in whether you'd enjoy each LEGO game or not. When you actually read each "professional" critic's review, most of them are a referendum on the source material; praise for Indiana Jones was high because everybody loves Indy, yet the gameplay itself was copy-paste from the previous two Star Wars games and the first Batman game. It didn't innovate at all, so I kinda ignored the critical reception because it's very obviously biased.

With respect, you yourself said that you didn't get into the LEGO Clone Wars game because you "had no understanding of the story" which kinda proves this point. Its gameplay, meanwhile, was incredibly diverse and innovative. The hub wasn't just a big sandbox, it was a layered, surprising environment with a point. Levels weren't just "run, jump and break things" but rather a varied mix of battlefield strategy, space combat and traditional platforming with picture-in-picture multi-location puzzles. It fundamentally changed the LEGO formula for the better in every single way. It doesn't matter that I like The Clone Wars as much as I do; the game itself is simply brilliant.

The criteria we're using in this group effort considers personal opinion, and rightly so, but after things like innovation, technical achievement and whatnot, and that's what I used to analyse each game. If it were up to me, all Star Wars, Indiana Jones and Batman games would be "Very Important" but I simply can't push that when you look at the gameplay and it's all (usually) identical.

The first open world LEGO game was LEGO Batman 2: DC Super Heroes, which contributed to my pushing for a higher ranking; similarly, that's why I went lower for LEGO Marvel Superheroes, as whilst it has a very impressive open world, the only difference between it and LEGO Batman 2 is that you skydive into it, rather than drive out of the Batcave. Both of those games are quite glitchy on PS3, too, with frequent pop-in, low framerate in the hubs, freezes and other common LEGO game issues, whereas LEGO Clone Wars is a fluid, stable and often gorgeous experience from beginning to end. I'm no Marvel fan but played LEGO Marvel Superheroes in co-op alongside a huge Marvel fan and had a blast because the game was solid, but it rarely innovated, which is why I put it in "Existing" and am happy for others to bring that ranking higher with their own support.

Sorry again if this is poorly-explained and / or rushed. I'll be home tomorrow afternoon and would be happy to answer any other questions you might have then.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

@Th3solution Also a quick one, but thanks for tagging me in and for your comments above; I agree with your overview, I think it's the only way you can really rank all the LEGO games. It's stunning how many supposedly impartial and professional reviews out there just descend into "but I don't like [insert specific franchise here] so this game sucks" or vice versa, or how many reference other LEGO games when reviewing one and change their tune over time. True impartiality is so difficult and I've probably screwed it up in a couple of my own placements, but I'd hope the "Pointless" rankings for things like LEGO Jurassic World and LEGO Star Wars: The Force Awakens show that I've tried really hard, at least!

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Th3solution

@ZeD Thanks for your input. The Metacritic scores are helpful when lacking hands on experience and I would likely be inclined to just go along with those scores in a vacuum as well, but for the fact that we do have some real life hands on Push Square user experience that we take into account.
For example, you just said HP 5-7 was “slightly better” as they seemed to “really fine tune the engine”, yet Metacritic scores it lower than its predecessor (albeit only slightly). Anyway, the point is I’d be inclined to put some significant stock into your personal opinion and experience over just the scores because you have a better global view of what we are shooting for, plus the advantage of several years of gaming evolution to look back and really assess a game’s significance, as opposed to journalist reviews done in the heat of a release window at the time. But definitely, I see your point and I do think Metacritic scores are a useful piece in helping to assess game quality.
Thanks to @RogerRoger for the clarification, which makes sense. I’m wondering if @Jaz007 has some input in particularly on the Harry Potter game. Also @Frigate did at least watch his spouse play them so maybe he can shed further light. Also @themcnoisy has some first hand experience too. Any additional thoughts?

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

ZeD

@RogerRoger for me I think the issue with the clones wars was that it was the last (I think) with no voices and if you do not know who characters are or a plot, then it fails at telling a story. However, I could say the same about Harry Potter & LotR. These are two franchises I adour and the the stories were told very well through the medium of Lego. The biggest difference was that it has a voice track and If you were not a fan though, you could still enjoy them as they told a story but I doubt you would appreciate it as much as a fan. Much like how I did not understand clone wars.
It does seem like you have done a lot of work on these Lego games and I can see why it is difficult. For example, Lego Jurassic World was a good, entertaining game but it was not needed. It was just another annual Lego release, just like The Force Unleashed & the recent Lego Incredibles.

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PSN: zedmayer
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themcnoisy

@ZeD I loved Lego Marvel I platted it this gen and 1000g it last gen. Its important to me! As for the criteria I couldn't rate it as very important as it falls down as technically its not great.

I haven't played Clone Wars but will give it a butchers in the future with @RogerRoger having the exp. But I trust his word and he hasn't let us down yet.

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PSN: mc_noisy

Jaz007

@Th3solution I played a few hours of HP 1-4. I like all of the properties the LEGO games are based off of just fine. I’ve seen all the movies all of them are based on and enjoyed all of them. I wouldn’t factor that in to my view of them. The gameplay is just the same thing as it was. Magic isn’t even really new beyond the force. Broomsticks are all that was really new. It’s a LEGO game like any other. Why we needed another LEGO game is the question. We were getting 3 a year at least for some of these years. They make COD, AC, and FIFA look sparing with their releases. How quick would those be not important or pointless if we had 3 of them in a year? And I loved the LEGO games at first, I just think the formula ran out and LEGO games need to separate themselves from that format. Go back to LEGO Island or something.

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

themcnoisy

@Jaz007 I both agree and disagree with that point. Traveller's Tales need to release a single game every year and put all their effort into one boss release. Its too self saturated which I agree with. But I still think the main idea and gameplay is adequate.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

themcnoisy

I will compile the results tomorrow. @Jaz007 I hope you are alright man, not like you to just leave the thread hanging so I'm hoping nothing bad has happened.

@Th3solution Would you like to do the honours mate and lock the results in? No rush mate I will load them in tomorrow night.

Edited on by themcnoisy

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
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Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

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