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Topic: Team [404 - Team Name Not Found] Deliberation Station

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RogerRoger

Team [404 - Team Name Not Found]
@Jaz007 (Captain) @Th3solution (Vice-Captain)
@Frigate @RogerRoger @themcnoisy @TowaHerschel7

Team Note: After the first round, @TowaHerschel7 replaced @TheIronChimp going forward.

Since the others did it, I thought we could, too. This'll just make things a little clearer for us, and then we can post our final answers over in the main topic. I'll copy over the progress already made in the other topic in follow-up posts, below the starting list.

Our first games up for deliberation / categorisation are as follows:

Bakugan Battle Brawlers Now Production
Bakugan: Defenders of the Core Now Production
BandFuse: Rock Legends Realta Entertainment Group
Band Hero Neversoft
Barbie & Her Sisters: Puppy Rescue Torus Games
Batman: Arkham City Rocksteady Studios
Batman: Arkham Origins WB Games Montréal
Batman: The Telltale Series Telltale Games
Battle Fantasia Arc System Works
Battle vs. Chess Targem Games / Zuxxez Entertainment
Battlefield 3 EA Digital Illusions CE
Battlefield 4 EA Digital Illusions CE
Battlefield Hardline EA Digital Illusions CE
Battlefield: Bad Company EA Digital Illusions CE
Battlefield: Bad Company 2 EA Digital Illusions CE
Battleship Double Helix Games
Bayonetta PlatinumGames
Beat Sketcher SCE Japan Studio
The Beatles: Rock Band Harmonix Music Systems
Beijing 2008 Eurocom
Bejeweled 3 PopCap Games
Ben 10: Galactic Racing D3 Publisher
Ben 10: Omniverse D3 Publisher
Ben 10: Omniverse 2 D3 Publisher
Ben 10 Ultimate Alien: Cosmic Destruction D3 Publisher
Beowulf: The Game Ubisoft Shanghai
Beyond: Two Souls Quantic Dream
Bionic Commando GRIN
Binary Domain Sega Japan

Edited on by RogerRoger

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

themcnoisy wrote:

I had a bit of time so here is the first block of games.

1) Take your time no one is under any pressure. If this is too many games please let me know and after this section I can reduce them down.

2) Don't forget you have 3 team vetos and 2 thread wide vetos which can be used if you see a game unfairly marked down after the team captains have posted the final results. This is will maybe irk some people, please don't let it - we all have the same powers!

3) All teams try to have your results in by Sunday, if you can do it before that is absolutely fine as I need to update the database. Again no one is under any pressure to participate as long as we have results off the team captains or other designated vice captains in that team.

4) The whole purpose of this section is to put every retail PS3 games into one of five files. Very Important, Important, Existing, Not Important and Pointless. From there we can then place them in an order far more easily. There isn't any half way houses in between any of these fields so choose wisely!

5) Please weight your choices according to these metrics and in this order; Importance to gaming as of today, Technical achievement, Artistic Merit and Personal opinion. An example I would use here is a game I love called Videoball on PS4. Its not very important today, it had no real technical achievements, its artistic merit was average however a bit different to usual sports games and I rated it highly. That would slide into the Not Important bracket unfortunately, existing at an absolute push if my team felt the same way. I hope that clears it up (go buy Videoball).

6) Good luck, have fun and if we argue that's all good. Please no personal insults we are all big gamers who play a lot of games. We all have different tastes and hopefully this can encourage us to look back at some of the classics in a new light.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

Th3solution wrote:

@Jaz007 @themcnoisy @RogerRoger @Frigate @TheIronChimp

Hey, there are some real gems in there ... and some real rubbish.
I’ll start with some quick first impressions. We have until Wednesday-ish to put forth out preliminary cases for and against before official voting at the latter half of the week.

So Batman Arkham Asylum advanced already to the very important round based on the prologue round, but I actually liked Arkham City more. Of course ‘personal opinion is the lowest weighted metric that we are to judge these games on, but I think both technically and artistically it achieved as much or more than its predecessor. It did not influence gaming today much, given it was not the first to use gameplay mechanics and free roam, but based on the other criteria, I would still rank it highly. I never played Arkham Origins, but I know @RogerRoger will have more to say for it.
As for the Telltale series, definitely a decent game for what it is — and I haven’t played the second one yet, but I think the series hardly innovated or had special technical or artistic merit. Probably deserves middling consideration (“existing”) despite my enjoyment of it.

Bayonetta also sticks out as a high a high achievement game. The artistitry is top shelf and I think the combat has been influential, if not unique. I could be wrong on this but she’s probably one of the few major female protagonists after Lara Croft and Samus until we get until the current gen.

Those are the ones I’ve played. There are a slew of Battlefield games there, which are probably somewhat important, but I can hardly tell which of those are cookie-cutter and which actually pushed the FPS genre forward.

So many of these I’ve never heard of. Bejeweled probably deserves some high credit since it’s so popular, but it’s probably more because of mobile than PS3. Binary Domain and Bionic Commando sound familiar. Probably have a following. Beowulf was garbage if I recall.
Beyond Two Souls deserves some consideration for at least important because of the pushing the boundaries of story telling in a video game. It’s not Quantic Dreams best work, that would be Detroit. But without BTS do we have Detroit? Or games like Until Dawn and Life is Strange?

And the Barbie Puppy Rescue game.... I’m pretty sure that’s absolute detritus. Not that I’d ... [ahem] er, uh.. know anything about it. 😉

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

themcnoisy wrote:

Jaz007 @themcnoisy @RogerRoger @Frigate @TheIronChimp

My first take

Bakugan Battle Brawlers Now Production -?
Bakugan: Defenders of the Core Now Production -?
BandFuse: Rock Legends Realta Entertainment Group -?

Band Hero Neversoft - Existing

Barbie & Her Sisters: Puppy Rescue Torus Games - Not Important

Batman: Arkham City Rocksteady Studios - Important

Batman: Arkham Origins WB Games Montréal - Existing

Batman: The Telltale Series Telltale Games - Not Important

Battle Fantasia Arc System Works -?

Battle vs. Chess Targem Games / Zuxxez Entertainment - Existing

Battlefield 3 EA Digital Illusions CE - Important

Battlefield 4 EA Digital Illusions CE - Very Important

Battlefield Hardline EA Digital Illusions CE - Not Important

Battlefield: Bad Company EA Digital Illusions CE - Existing

Battlefield: Bad Company 2 EA Digital Illusions CE - Very Important

Battleship Double Helix Games - Pointless

Bayonetta PlatinumGames - Very Importan
t

Beat Sketcher SCE Japan Studio -?

The Beatles: Rock Band Harmonix Music Systems - Not Important

Beijing 2008 Eurocom - Important

Bejeweled 3 PopCap Games - Important

Ben 10: Galactic Racing D3 Publisher?
Ben 10: Omniverse D3 Publisher?
Ben 10: Omniverse 2 D3 Publisher?
Ben 10 Ultimate Alien: Cosmic Destruction D3 Publisher?
Beowulf: The Game Ubisoft Shanghai?

Beyond: Two Souls Quantic Dream - Very Important

Bionic Commando GRIN?
Binary Domain Sega Japan?


If we are struggling with Bakugan and the Ben 10 games I have played some of them but can't remember which and will do the homework for us. My Sons were big Ben 10 fans so It will be a trip down memory lane of mediocrity. Beijing 2008 was the last Olympics game before Nintendo took the licence and Battleship is absolutely awful.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Th3solution

@themcnoisy
I’m interested as to why you ranked the Battlefield games as you did. As I said, I have played nary a one and don’t carry an opinion. You have a wide difference between the two Bad Company ‘s and why might you feel 4 is very important? Did it push the genre forward more than the others?

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

RogerRoger

Yeah, so the only games on this list I've actually played are those that begin with "Batman". I'll give some thoughts on those, and then just judge the others on my immediate gut (happy to be overwritten by any other comrades who've actually played them).

We've already championed Arkham Asylum, and I'm happy for that to remain. Arkham City has this weird status where everybody thinks it's superior, but personally I don't believe so; I actually think it's just "more" without advancing or improving upon anything already found in Asylum. The plot is less focused and whilst the moments of genius are indeed genius, the fluff in between them is of significantly lower quality (for example, the whole League of Shadows "trial" is a poor substitute for the imaginative and original Scarecrow sequences).

Meanwhile, whilst Arkham Origins is technically an average PS3 game at best (poor framerate, texture pop-in, random bugs, etc.) and the gameplay is only slightly tweaked for the better, the story and presentation is lightyears above and beyond all the other Arkham games which came before and have come since. The voice acting, music and story combine to make one of the greatest, most atmospheric bat-games to date (or just "games" in general, really).

In other words, the "artistic merit" and "personal opinion" criteria are through the roof for Arkham Origins, but drag down Arkham City, which is probably considered more "important to gaming today" and is objectively a better "technical achievement". In my head, trying to be fair about this and consider the wider picture, they're a wash, and I'd therefore categorise both as Important.

And yeah, gotta be honest and agree with @Th3solution on this one; the Telltale games barely innovated over the course of their various incarnations. Batman: The Telltale Series was a solid effort, pretty original in terms of story, but it had technical problems on PS4 (the version I played) so I can only imagine how bad it was on PS3 (on which I played Tales of the Borderlands, which was appalling in terms of performance). Given everything, I reckon putting it in the Existing category is fair. If we were talking about Batman: The Enemy Within, the far superior sequel series on PS4, then I'd be arguing for it to be Important, maybe even Very Important, but hey.

That's all I got this round, really, and so here's my complete list, the other games of which I've judged based on reviews I've read, gameplay I've watched and feedback I've heard from my other gamer friends and / or folks on PushSquare. Question marks against those I didn't even know existed.

***

Bakugan Battle Brawlers ...?
Bakugan: Defenders of the Core ...?

BandFuse: Rock Legends ...?

Band Hero - Not Important

Barbie & Her Sisters: Puppy Rescue - Ver... er, sorry, I meant Not Important

Batman: Arkham City - Important
Batman: Arkham Origins - Important
Batman: The Telltale Series - Existing

Battle Fantasia - Existing

Battle vs. Chess - Existing

Battlefield 3 - Existing
Battlefield 4 - Important (I heard it was an improvement?)
Battlefield Hardline - Important (because it's the only one I've been tempted to play)
Battlefield: Bad Company - Existing
Battlefield: Bad Company 2 - Important (again, heard it improved things)

Battleship - Not Important (that film was awful)

Bayonetta - Important

Beat Sketcher ...?

The Beatles: Rock Band - Pointless (I loathe the Beatles; my personal bias is so very strong on this one, it's overriding everything, so feel free to disregard my vote)

Beijing 2008 - Existing

Bejeweled 3 - I can't support an HD mobile game, sorry... Pointless

Ben 10: Galactic Racing - Not Important
Ben 10: Omniverse - Not Important
Ben 10: Omniverse 2 - Not Important
Ben 10 Ultimate Alien: Cosmic Destruction - Not Important

Beowulf: The Game - Pointless

Beyond: Two Souls - Important (I gather this is David Cage's weakest...?)

Bionic Commando - Important

Binary Domain - Important

***

Whilst I don't know the Ben 10 franchise, I'll always support the idea of licenced games, especially ones for kids. I'll never say that they're a reason to live, but they provide a heck of a lot of joy to those who actually do love 'em enough to show up, and that's worth something to me (and obviously to others, because they sold enough to make four of 'em on PS3 at least). I won't necessarily rank them higher, but I'll keep them out of the garbage can, on behalf of those who perhaps don't wanna admit to liking them.

Anyway, that's my first pass. Hope it helps!

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

themcnoisy

@Th3solution np mate.


Battlefield 3 EA Digital Illusions CE - Important

Battlefield 4 EA Digital Illusions CE - Very Important

Battlefield Hardline EA Digital Illusions CE - Not Important

Battlefield: Bad Company EA Digital Illusions CE - Existing

Battlefield: Bad Company 2 EA Digital Illusions CE - Very Important


Hardline is the weakest although the bad boys vibe is unique its actually a bad way to showcase this type of game. Glamorising police brutality. Its been forgotten about and was pretty much DOA.

Battlefield 3 and 4 are good games. They pushed the Frostbite engine still in use today. 4 being the sequel to 3 and is better in every way. Extremely successful and until the recent battle royale fad, a gold standard as to what an online FPS should be.

Bad Company 1 and 2 follow a similar path. Bad Company 2 is still mentioned today which is why I gave it very important and there is a vocal fanbase on the Internet still. Bad Company 1 isn't a game which makes me want to replay it though and probably ranks above Hardline on name alone.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

themcnoisy

@RogerRoger thanks for setting up the thread mate.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

RogerRoger

@themcnoisy No problemo.

Also interesting that your first-hand opinions of the Battlefield franchise are largely in line with my second-hand (and sometimes third-hand) impressions. Slightly out of alignment but I can move to match your judgement. The only difference is Hardline but I'll take your word for the finished product not managing to stick the landing; the reason I was tempted by it was specifically because of the "militarised police" angle, having worked with and in similar environments. I was curious to see what kind of comment they'd make on the incredibly difficult debate.

Might watch the campaign on YouTube during the week, if I can squeeze it in.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Tasuki

Ok maybe I missed something and I don't feel nor have the time to go through pages and pages of text but what is with all these team ---- threads popping up all of a sudden? We have three threads now for them is it necessary to have three separate threads? I am not complaining just trying to figure out why we need three separate threads. I don't want to shut any of them down so I just figured I ask.

Push Square Moderator and all around retro gamer.

My Backlog

PSN: Tasuki3711

Jaz007

@Tasuki We need 3 thread so we can keep track of our teams discussions and look back on them easily. And don’t worry, you’ve got some regulars who know how to use the report button on these threads. We’ll be good. [laughs evilly]

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

themcnoisy

@Tasuki wondered when you would show up mate. We are ordering every PS3 game ever. We have 3 teams doing the work.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

themcnoisy

@Tasuki do you want to join our team Taz? You would have a big input.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

themcnoisy

@Jaz007 so what's your plans for getting our tallies together bro? Both Sol, Rog or I could throw up a mini database if you like?
@Ralizah has one in the MTX thread.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

Jaz007

@themcnoisy I was thinking I’d tally up the votes at the end of the week. And database? Like a google doc? What do you have in mind for it?
And @rogerroger @Th3Solution @frigate @ironchimp. Could you put played next to a vote if you think you qualify for the double vote? That would help me keep track of it. Also, for talking coping the list of fans sand putting a vote next to it should be the easiest way for me to count.

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

Frigate

Bakugan Battle Brawlers Now Production Not Important
Bakugan: Defenders of the Core Now Production Not Important
BandFuse: Rock Legends Realta Entertainment Group Pointless
Band Hero Neversoft Existing
Barbie & Her Sisters: Puppy Rescue Torus Games Pointless
Batman: Arkham City Rocksteady Studios Important
Batman: Arkham Origins WB Games Montréal Existing
Batman: The Telltale Series Telltale Games Existing
Battle Fantasia Arc System Works Existing
Battle vs. Chess Targem Games / Zuxxez Entertainment Pointless
Battlefield 3 EA Digital Illusions CE Existing
Battlefield 4 EA Digital Illusions CE Important
Battlefield Hardline EA Digital Illusions CE Existing
Battlefield: Bad Company EA Digital Illusions CE Existing
Battlefield: Bad Company 2 EA Digital Illusions CE Important
Battleship Double Helix Games Pointless
Bayonetta PlatinumGames Important
Beat Sketcher SCE Japan Studio Existing
The Beatles: Rock Band Harmonix Music Systems Existing
Beijing 2008 Eurocom Not Important
Bejeweled 3 PopCap Games Existing
Ben 10: Galactic Racing D3 Publisher Not Important
Ben 10: Omniverse D3 Publisher Not Important
Ben 10: Omniverse 2 D3 Publisher Not Important
Ben 10 Ultimate Alien: Cosmic Destruction D3 Publisher Not Important
Beowulf: The Game Ubisoft Shanghai Not Important
Beyond: Two Souls Quantic Dream Important
Bionic Commando GRIN Existing
Binary Domain Sega Japan Existing

Of the list I recall playing 20 but I don't want to veto anything so far. Tough to be impartial, especially with some of the more popular titles. Also, trying to be economical with my Pointless and Very Important votes.

Frigate

Jaz007

Here we go. First take after a little research for some games.

Bakugan Battle Brawlers Now Production - Not Important
Bakugan: Defenders of the Core Now Production - Pointless
BandFuse: Rock Legends Realta Entertainment Group - Existed
Band Hero Neversoft - Not important
Barbie & Her Sisters: Puppy Rescue Torus Games pointless
Batman: Arkham City Rocksteady Studios - very important (played)
Batman: Arkham Origins WB Games Montréal - important (played)
Batman: The Telltale Series Telltale Games - existed
Battle Fantasia Arc System Works - existed
Battle vs. Chess Targem Games / Zuxxez Entertainment -existed - existed
Battlefield 3 EA Digital Illusions CE - existed
Battlefield 4 EA Digital Illusions CE - not important
Battlefield Hardline EA Digital Illusions CE -not important
Battlefield: Bad Company EA Digital Illusions CE -important
Battlefield: Bad Company 2 EA Digital Illusions CE - very important
Battleship Double Helix Games -pointless
Bayonetta PlatinumGames - important
Beat Sketcher SCE Japan Studio ?
The Beatles: Rock Band Harmonix Music Systems - not important
Beijing 2008 Eurocom
Bejeweled 3 PopCap Games - not important
Ben 10: Galactic Racing D3 Publisher -?
Ben 10: Omniverse D3 Publisher -?
Ben 10: Omniverse 2 D3 Publisher - ?
Ben 10 Ultimate Alien: Cosmic Destruction D3 Publisher - ?
Beowulf: The Game Ubisoft Shanghai - existed
Beyond: Two Souls Quantic Dream - existed
Bionic Commando GRIN - not important
Binary Domain Sega Japan - existed

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

Jaz007

@RogerRoger @themcnoisy The Barbie has an average rating of 40.00 I’m curious as to why this is above pointless? Also, @Rogerroger Bejewkwed 3 is a PC game originally and first and foremost as I recall. Pretty good for what it is. Has a decent PS3 port, I just can’t imagine a controller being that great of an idea for it. It’s not gonna takena oiwerhosue PC to run, even upon release. And @MCnoisy, what made you make it important? I’m curious about what choice.

And everyone, Arkham City not very important? It got a lot of game of the years. It pioneered the open-world super-hero game for PS3 and on. It also did a lot for open-world game and having lots of good secrets (riddler puzzles) in addition to being a great technically achievement. It’s also just an amazing game I think. Potential top ten matarial.

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

Frigate

@Jaz007 I don't disagree with your thoughts regarding Batman AC, my personal opinion is what stopped me giving up a Very Important vote.

Frigate

themcnoisy

@Jaz007 Arkham Asylum was brilliant and the world was concise. Arkham City was great but I think the extra bits and bobs didn't help the overall game and where as the original Asylum was well... original, City took popular conventions at the time and slotted them on.

Similar in many ways to Modern Warfare probably being a bigger influence today than MW2, you could argue a good case that MW2 is a better game. But Cod4 MW started a bunch of now standardised conventions just like Asylum. MW2 and City were both arguably better but not as innovative.

Importance - Asylum
Technical Achievement - Both (you could argue either way)
Artistic Merit - Asylum
Personal Preference - For me Asylum

So in that regard I would put City in Important. But again its a tough call as it was an acclaimed sequel. I also think whatever the game on Ps4 was with the Batmobile kind of ruined the franchise a tad.


Edit - to clarify Im happy to put it in very important though if that's the general consensus.

Edited on by themcnoisy

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

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