8k in video games is the equivalent of wiping your arse with gold leaf paper - yes it can be done, but it’s largely impractical and an expensive waste of resources.
Quite funny really. Definitely shows that people shouldn’t be comparing pc to consoles. When you upgrade the gpu for one you get better performance across the board, when you upgrade the gpu for the other you get better performance in a selection of titles and worse performance in several others 😉
Fastest ever post console launch sale? If it were priced appropriately at launch, why are so many retailers already content to apply various discounts weeks before Black Friday? Especially for a product that has only been available for 8 days 😳
The Japanese love their monster hunter and wilds is looking like a game that pretty much demands a ps5 pro. Wouldn’t be surprised if a significant portion of those buying in Japan based their purchasing decision on the recent wilds beta test.
@TruestoryYep the RE engine isn’t particularly well suited to open world games, as shown with dragons dogma 2. The beta test on pc showed that, as with dragon’s dogma, the game is incredibly cpu intensive. You need a fairly decent gpu, but if you have an older cpu the game really struggles to hit 60fps.
I have a 7800x3d and a 4070ti, I was getting 65-95fps on a mix of medium and high settings at 1440p using Dlss set to quality. I tried the ps5 early access on performance mode and my pc blows that out the water.
The low poly texture issues on pc were a bug tied to vram - the work around was to reinstall the gpu drivers. Capcom have ample time to fix this before launch and to work on optimisation.
Worst case scenario, I know the game will run at 65fps+ on high/medium settings, dlss quality at 1440p on my system. I expect it to run better at launch with official Nvidia driver support and further optimisations.
The game doesn’t need delaying, especially given how little progress has been made optimising dragon’s dogma 2 since launch. I’m fairly confident that the launch version of wilds will be just as cpu limited, but should perform better than this initial beta test.
@DennisReynolds I really don’t understand what you’re upset about. This isn’t a third person game and it was never going to be. No one else is making a third person Indiana game as far as I’m aware, there’s no funding for one and nobody is interested is making one. It’s time to move on buddy. Go play uncharted again.
@DennisReynolds no, machine games and Bethesda pitched the idea for a first person Indiana jones action adventure game to Disney (owners of the IP) and it was green lit. At no point in time was this game ever going to be a third person game.
If you want to secure funding and a studio of devs you’re welcome to go pitch your idea for an Indiana Jones reskin of uncharted to Disney and see how far you get.
@DennisReynolds you do realise this isn’t uncharted or tomb raider, right? The devs have clearly explained the design choice behind the first person - they want you to be able to see the world through the eyes of the character when exploring, finding artifacts, taking pictures etc. Outside of a few different moments the game mechanics have all been designed for first person and the studio have a strong history of first person design.
How long have you worked at machine games for you to be able to say the game is supposed to be third person? If you want that type of game there’s 3 of the tomb raider reboots and 4 uncharted’s. I’m glad they’ve gone in a different direction, if it was third person no doubt people like yourself would complain that it was an uncharted rip off.
Not really, it’s proof that you shouldn’t build a console with a cpu bottleneck. Especially with some modern games leaning more heavily on cpu processing for certain tasks.
Nobody in their right mind would build or buy a gaming pc with a modern rtx 4060 and then bottleneck it with an ancient ryzen 7 3700x (essentially the ps5 pro spec) and expect to achieve decent frame rates in any modern cpu intensive games. Why should the ps5 pro be any different? There’s only so far a gpu can carry a ***** cpu.
@LowDefAl definitely not banking on it at all, just saying that would be the only possible reason for me to entertain the idea of a ps5 pro. I’m fairly confident that both sequels to ghost of Tsushima and death stranding will perform absolutely fine on my base ps5.
With regards to gta6, I will probably be waiting for the pc version as I have a far more capable 7800x3d cpu.
If this can do gta6 at decent resolution and 60fps it might be worth getting as I’m fairly confident the base model will only be capable of 30fps. If gta6 wasn’t timed console exclusive there’d be absolutely no reason for me to get one as I have a very capable pc. I only use my base ps5 console for exclusives and thankfully Sony spend the time properly optimising their in house titles.
All the people saying ps5 pro isn’t close to being the most expensive console in history are doing so by comparing gaming systems from decades ago that weren’t mass market and were very much enthusiast/early adopter products before consoles became mainstream.
The Xbox one and Xbox one x is a far better comparison point. The one x launched with 4x the gpu power of the original system, a slightly higher clock speed cpu, twice the hard drive space and 12gb gddr5 ram up from 8gb ddr3 on the base console. Arguably a far bigger upgrade over the base console than that of the ps5 pro. The Xbox one launch for £429.99 in 2013 and the one x launched for £449.99 four years later in 2017.
If the only way you can defend the pricing of the ps5 pro is to cherry pick enthusiast/early adopter examples from history than you’re inadvertently conceding that it is too expensive.
It is the second most expensive console in the history of mainstream gaming when you account for inflation. You’d have to go all the way back to the sega Saturn launch to find a higher priced mainstream console.
Also, for those who will say it is enthusiast, it isn’t. PC is the enthusiast space. Consoles are not enthusiast by virtue of the fact that they do not offer the absolute best experience on the market in terms of power and performance when ignoring price. They are a mainstream, plug and play solution.
Absolutely loved the beta, gameplay feels like a solid progression from world as does the living world and weather systems.
I played early access on ps5 for a few days on performance mode. While the frame rate was generally pretty good, the image quality was absolutely terrible on my 27” monitor. I can’t imagine how much worse it would be if playing on a large screen 4k tv. I can see the ps5 pro’s PSSR making a huge difference in this title at launch.
I switched to pc for the open beta and the visuals were a massive step up from those on ps5, as was the frame rate which comfortably maintained 60fps.
Cannot wait for full release and am fairly confident, as a massive fan of the series, that this will be my 2025 goty.
@Darylb88 not particularly surprising - it’s the most expensive Sony console of all time even including the original ps3 and accounting for inflation (£697 for the higher tier model and with a disc drive). It’s also launching with the same base ps5 cpu and still at a time when economic prosperity and job security is an ongoing issue.
I don’t think it’s going to be difficult to source a ps5 pro at any point in time unless Sony drastically cut back production levels.
A few days early access on ps5 before I switch to my pc for the ultimate hunting experience. Can’t wait. One more sleep - I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve again.
As a pc player ai upscalers sounded fantastic when they were first introduced - free extra performance at the same resolution targets, great.
The reality is, most devs now use upscalers as a means to reduce the resources that were once allocated to optimisation. In the past pc games targeted native resolutions, now pretty much every game lists recommended and minimum settings using upscalers with projected frame rates achieved through ai frame generation. The “extra performance” promised from these technologies has been completely eroded to the point where they are being used to achieve baseline performance at the expense of optimisation.
@truerbluer not really, the early coverage of ps5 pro by tech experts has been unanimously positive especially with those who have gone hands on with the system. PS5 pro will offer the best console experience across the board for multi platform and first party games for the remainder of this generation at a premium £700. We don’t know the system requirements for the pc version of spider man 2 yet - but I doubt that a £700 system will wipe the floor with the ps5 pro version. A 4090 would, but I would argue that if you can afford or own that system you were never in the market for a PlayStation, particularly if you play at high frame rates and ultrawide.
The massive difference between PlayStation and Xbox largely comes down to the fact that ps4 launched at a more competitive price point and was a more powerful system that didn’t market itself as an entertainment box. PlayStation has far better marketing than Xbox and also has people tied into their ecosystem from the ps4 generation. They had the call of duty marketing rights for 8 years and have been one of the main sponsors for the uefa champions league football tournament since 1997. I see PlayStation marketing all the time in the uk - I can’t remember the last time I saw an Xbox ad, probably for halo or gears of war back in the 360 era days.
@truerbluer a ridiculous statement. The Sony PlayStation brand is stronger than ever - particularly in Europe. The pc and console markets aren’t the same and the vast majority of PlayStation’s profits are generated by casual gamers.
Yes, pc might be a threat to the enthusiast market, but for Sony that’s a very small proportion of their player base. Sony are also attempting to cater to this demographic with the release of the ps5 pro. Microsoft are struggling, not because of pc, but because of PlayStation - many players switched to PlayStation during the Xbox one generation and this trend has continued with the launch of ps5. There’s only 2 players left in the high end console space and I can’t see Microsoft returning in any way to threaten Sony’s lead. The main concern for consumers is that PlayStation are moving towards a position of complete market dominance.
Nintendo do their own thing and aren’t really in competition with anyone right now. Sony’s biggest worry for the future isn’t Microsoft or Nintendo, it’s the popularity of mobile gaming and the advent of improved cloud streaming technologies. This is true for all the major players in the console industry and to a lesser extent the pc market.
@Flaming_Kaiser yes ps5 slim did exactly the same. My point was that the newer released series x consoles aren’t identical to the launch editions, there has been some changes to the SoC and the designs of the boards.
For the record, I have a pc so have no horse in this race. I have a significant cpu upgrade over all current gen consoles, including the pro and a decent gpu which is more powerful than anything offered by consoles and has access to all the latest Nvidia ai tech.
I was tempted to upgrade my base ps5 to the pro before knowing the price - over $800 with the stand and disc drive. Instead I put the money into a gpu upgrade. The ps5 pro improvements are marginal - especially if you play on a 1440p 27” oled like myself.
@wildcat_kickz actually there are some improvements over the original launch series x. Microsoft have moved production of the SoC to a 6nm process meaning that newer series x consoles run more efficiently than the original systems. They have a slightly reduced power draw and can be cooled more easily. I do agree that $600 is still a terrible price point for the 2tb model.
@Dom_31 we still don’t know if that’s 60fps using frame generation, like wukong on ps5. Given that the pc recommended spec requirements are using frame generation to achieve 60fps I’d say it’s pretty likely that the ps5 is too. Which means it’ll feel more like 30 due to the input delay inherent when using frame generation at sub native 60fps.
Let’s all cheer for Microsoft’s demise and celebrate the almighty Sony PlayStation as they move ever closer to achieving the monopoly status wished for by the most fervent of fanboys.
All hail higher pricing, smaller innovation and reduced consumer welfare!
@LowDefAl Well, yes, if you reduce the price of any luxury product with the exception of a giffen good, you’ll capture more of the demand curve and therefore see more sales.
As you point out, Sony are unable to reduce costs of the ps5 to the levels achieved on the ps4. The ps4 slim launched roughly 3 years after the launch of the original unit for $100 less. The ps5 slim launched at the same price as the original launch unit. So at the current, and probable long-term pricing of the ps5, saturation point is being reached.
I think the issue of ps5 console sales slowdown is more to do with the fact that the market is saturated, not the lack of exclusive first party titles.
Generation alpha are now gaming more on their phones and with f2p titles, if they play traditional titles it tends to be on pc where most streamers are also playing. Mobile gaming is essentially “free” as the majority have relatively capable handsets on contracts, it’s also more convenient and accessible than traditional consoles.
Development costs are increasing alongside hardware costs and consoles are no longer as profitable as they once were. Triple a game development is also far more of a risk - games are far more likely to underperform in the current market than they are to produce a return of significant value to investors.
I don’t envy Sony trying to navigate the current economic climate and markets whilst maintaining profits capable of placating their shareholders. They don’t have the fallback capital available to Microsoft and to a lesser extent Nintendo.
Anyone here thinking that until dawn’s pc sales aren’t a reflection on the fact that it’s an expensive remaster of an average ps4 title rather than the fact PlayStation titles don’t sell well on pc is deluded. This won’t sell well on PlayStation either, does that mean PlayStation games don’t sell on PlayStation too and Sony should quit that strategy?
If Sony wanted to actually shift pc copies, they’d release first party titles day and date on steam. As it is they’re trying to have their cake and eat it - they want to sell copies on pc, but they delay the majority of their first party output by years and expect to still have the same success on steam that they do on PlayStation.
Anyone on pc that hasn’t got a PlayStation yet because they’re holding out for the pc release was never that interested in getting a PlayStation to begin with. I have a pc and a PlayStation, the only titles I play on my ps5 are those that are added to PlayStation plus extra. I’d rather wait and pay the money for the game on pc to play a significantly better version. If PlayStation abandoned pc, I’d still just wait for titles to hit PlayStation plus extra - I’m not paying a premium to play an inferior version of a game. (I can pick up most new titles on pc digitally for about £40 vs £70 on PlayStation).
I don’t think Microsoft have any problem supporting ps5 pro, they consider pc to be part of the Xbox ecosystem so would argue that their games play best on the pc platform not ps5 pro. Obviously, this is just a PR spin on the fact that ps5 pro provides the best console experience for Microsoft studios games.
@DonJorginho harder dev tools? Possibly, but then that would also be true of pc - both use direct x. PlayStation use bespoke development tools unique to their platform unlike Xbox which shares commonality with pc. It’s one of the reasons why PlayStation bought nixxes, they specialise in porting to pc (which ironically would probably make them fairly adept at porting PlayStation games to Xbox).
I think it’s more likely that optimisation is harder for the limited power of series s compared to ps5 and obviously the Xbox series install base is half the size of PlayStation 5’s.
Did psvr2 sell out when it was first available for pre order? I ordered one, and don’t remember having any difficulty. (I did return it for a full refund a few days later). That sold pretty well at launch and obviously then fell away massively. I wonder if the pro will follow the same trajectory? I don’t see it being difficult to buy at Christmas tbh
At least the scalpers will have a hard time lining their pockets. Hopefully those individuals intending to make money from the scarcity of the pro end up losing money.
They’re still available to pre-order, right? Not exactly flying off the shelves. PS5 pre-orders closed within a few hours due to demand. There’s a lot of people that were happy to upgrade to the PS4 pro from the base machine that aren’t doing so for PS5 pro, and an awful lot more that haven’t yet transitioned to PS5 that won’t be doing so with pro.
This isn’t going to sell a lot of units and certainly won’t surpass the PS4 pro’s mediocre sales numbers. If Xbox have taught us anything, it’s that consoles with lower install bases aren’t supported as well as those with the highest. PS4 pro wasn’t particularly well supported outside of first party, I don’t expect PS5 pro to be any different.
Curiously did pushsquare exist at the time of PS4 pro’s launch, and if so did they run a similar poll regarding buying intent? The results, I’m sure, would be far more positive than those for PS5 pro.
Never got around to playing the original snake eater release despite enjoying and finishing sons of liberty on ps2. Looking forward to playing through this when it launches.
$10k, for a “chance” at securing a ps5 pro 30th anniversary edition? Do they also sell lottery tickets for $10k with a chance of winning the jackpot? 😂
@thefourfoldroot1 to be honest, given the price of the pro, I fully expect the handheld or secondary console to be a series s power-like option. If Sony wish to continue to have a mass market machine without taking a massive hit on hardware costs they’ll need to compromise on power to meet a $400-$500 price point.
@SeanOhOgain yep, but nothing new there, the reporting here always tends towards sensationalism. I’m also not sure why they’re using the word “novelty”. Sony certainly don’t consider their pc strategy a novelty, and as someone that’s bought several Sony studios titles on pc I didn’t do so for their novelty value.
@get2sammyb that’s the problem, you’re paying £700 and just hoping that you’ll get to play future releases at 60fps. Sony have even said that there will be 30fps games on the pro
Yeah, what do you expect when you launch as a ps5 console exclusive and have unrealistic sales targets? Missing out both the PC and Xbox markets is obviously going to result in lower sales.
If you want to maximise sales, you launch on as many marketplaces as possible. If you’re being paid for exclusivity, you need to adjust your sales targets accordingly and accept that you’re being financially compensated for those sales losses.
The Tomb Raider reboot in 2013 was pretty successful, but it failed to meet Square Enix’s internal sales targets, despite achieving 3.4 million sales pretty soon after release and going on to become the best selling game in series history.
What a time to be alive, the generation of the remaster continues. I wonder if this will be a $70 launch title for the ps5 pro (only available digitally obviously) 😉
@Pranwell the disc is detachable, if they give it to you at cost you can sell it at cost or make a profit. Also, if they give it at cost I imagine it would add maybe $40 to the cost of the machine rather than the $99 it would cost to buy separately.
Or, more simply, like the slim, add a disc edition at cost, for roughly $40 more.
Sony shouldn’t be profiteering off of people with physical editions just because they operate a closed system online.
The only way this thing sells out at launch is if Sony deliberately restrict stock levels to maintain the narrative that the pro is a high demand item.
It will be interesting how transparent they are with sales numbers or if they do another psvr2 and keep those figures close to their chest. Either way, we’ll know how successful ps5 pro has been.
Comments 379
Re: The Callisto Protocol Haunts in 8K with Huge PS5 Pro Patch
8k in video games is the equivalent of wiping your arse with gold leaf paper - yes it can be done, but it’s largely impractical and an expensive waste of resources.
Re: Here's a Taste of Soul Reaver's Remastered Gameplay on PS5, PS4
I’m assuming this will hit native 4k120 on base ps5?
Re: Disgruntled PS5 Pro Owners Campaign to Disable Support After Slew of Shoddy Patches
Quite funny really. Definitely shows that people shouldn’t be comparing pc to consoles. When you upgrade the gpu for one you get better performance across the board, when you upgrade the gpu for the other you get better performance in a selection of titles and worse performance in several others 😉
Re: The Game Awards Confirms DLC, Remasters Can Win Game of the Year Days Prior to Nominations Reveal
In my opinion, no. Put in a separate category for remasters/remakes and dlc
Re: UK Retailers Are All Discounting the PS5 Pro Already
Fastest ever post console launch sale? If it were priced appropriately at launch, why are so many retailers already content to apply various discounts weeks before Black Friday? Especially for a product that has only been available for 8 days 😳
Re: Japan Sales Charts: PS5 Pro Gets Stronger Start Than PS4 Pro Despite Being Twice the Price
The Japanese love their monster hunter and wilds is looking like a game that pretty much demands a ps5 pro. Wouldn’t be surprised if a significant portion of those buying in Japan based their purchasing decision on the recent wilds beta test.
Re: PS5 Pro Brute Forces Better Performance in Monster Hunter Wilds' Beta
@TruestoryYep the RE engine isn’t particularly well suited to open world games, as shown with dragons dogma 2. The beta test on pc showed that, as with dragon’s dogma, the game is incredibly cpu intensive. You need a fairly decent gpu, but if you have an older cpu the game really struggles to hit 60fps.
I have a 7800x3d and a 4070ti, I was getting 65-95fps on a mix of medium and high settings at 1440p using Dlss set to quality. I tried the ps5 early access on performance mode and my pc blows that out the water.
The low poly texture issues on pc were a bug tied to vram - the work around was to reinstall the gpu drivers. Capcom have ample time to fix this before launch and to work on optimisation.
Worst case scenario, I know the game will run at 65fps+ on high/medium settings, dlss quality at 1440p on my system. I expect it to run better at launch with official Nvidia driver support and further optimisations.
The game doesn’t need delaying, especially given how little progress has been made optimising dragon’s dogma 2 since launch. I’m fairly confident that the launch version of wilds will be just as cpu limited, but should perform better than this initial beta test.
Re: Indiana Jones Looks Like an Adventure Worth Waiting for on PS5
@DennisReynolds I really don’t understand what you’re upset about. This isn’t a third person game and it was never going to be. No one else is making a third person Indiana game as far as I’m aware, there’s no funding for one and nobody is interested is making one. It’s time to move on buddy. Go play uncharted again.
Re: Indiana Jones Looks Like an Adventure Worth Waiting for on PS5
@DennisReynolds no, machine games and Bethesda pitched the idea for a first person Indiana jones action adventure game to Disney (owners of the IP) and it was green lit. At no point in time was this game ever going to be a third person game.
If you want to secure funding and a studio of devs you’re welcome to go pitch your idea for an Indiana Jones reskin of uncharted to Disney and see how far you get.
Re: PS5 Pro Brute Forces Better Performance in Monster Hunter Wilds' Beta
@Bionic-Spencer ran fine on my pc. Happy for them to delay the console versions for you though 😉
Re: Indiana Jones Looks Like an Adventure Worth Waiting for on PS5
@DennisReynolds you do realise this isn’t uncharted or tomb raider, right? The devs have clearly explained the design choice behind the first person - they want you to be able to see the world through the eyes of the character when exploring, finding artifacts, taking pictures etc. Outside of a few different moments the game mechanics have all been designed for first person and the studio have a strong history of first person design.
How long have you worked at machine games for you to be able to say the game is supposed to be third person? If you want that type of game there’s 3 of the tomb raider reboots and 4 uncharted’s. I’m glad they’ve gone in a different direction, if it was third person no doubt people like yourself would complain that it was an uncharted rip off.
Re: PS5 Pro Pre-Orders Are Stronger Than PS4 Pro, But Scalpers Are Losing Money
Yeah, you can’t scalp something with an RRP that already has a scalper level mark up. Who’d have thought 😂
Re: Hands On: $700 Later and Dragon's Dogma 2 PS5 Pro Performance Is Still Far from Perfect
@Sergo “proof that its software not the hardware”
Not really, it’s proof that you shouldn’t build a console with a cpu bottleneck. Especially with some modern games leaning more heavily on cpu processing for certain tasks.
Nobody in their right mind would build or buy a gaming pc with a modern rtx 4060 and then bottleneck it with an ancient ryzen 7 3700x (essentially the ps5 pro spec) and expect to achieve decent frame rates in any modern cpu intensive games. Why should the ps5 pro be any different? There’s only so far a gpu can carry a ***** cpu.
Re: Round Up: PS5 Pro Reviews Love New Tech and Its Glimpse of PS6 Potential
@LowDefAl definitely not banking on it at all, just saying that would be the only possible reason for me to entertain the idea of a ps5 pro. I’m fairly confident that both sequels to ghost of Tsushima and death stranding will perform absolutely fine on my base ps5.
With regards to gta6, I will probably be waiting for the pc version as I have a far more capable 7800x3d cpu.
Re: Round Up: PS5 Pro Reviews Love New Tech and Its Glimpse of PS6 Potential
If this can do gta6 at decent resolution and 60fps it might be worth getting as I’m fairly confident the base model will only be capable of 30fps. If gta6 wasn’t timed console exclusive there’d be absolutely no reason for me to get one as I have a very capable pc. I only use my base ps5 console for exclusives and thankfully Sony spend the time properly optimising their in house titles.
Re: PS5 Pro vs PS5: Full Tech Specs Comparison
All the people saying ps5 pro isn’t close to being the most expensive console in history are doing so by comparing gaming systems from decades ago that weren’t mass market and were very much enthusiast/early adopter products before consoles became mainstream.
The Xbox one and Xbox one x is a far better comparison point. The one x launched with 4x the gpu power of the original system, a slightly higher clock speed cpu, twice the hard drive space and 12gb gddr5 ram up from 8gb ddr3 on the base console. Arguably a far bigger upgrade over the base console than that of the ps5 pro. The Xbox one launch for £429.99 in 2013 and the one x launched for £449.99 four years later in 2017.
If the only way you can defend the pricing of the ps5 pro is to cherry pick enthusiast/early adopter examples from history than you’re inadvertently conceding that it is too expensive.
It is the second most expensive console in the history of mainstream gaming when you account for inflation. You’d have to go all the way back to the sega Saturn launch to find a higher priced mainstream console.
Also, for those who will say it is enthusiast, it isn’t. PC is the enthusiast space. Consoles are not enthusiast by virtue of the fact that they do not offer the absolute best experience on the market in terms of power and performance when ignoring price. They are a mainstream, plug and play solution.
Re: Poll: What Did You Think of the Monster Hunter Wilds Beta?
Absolutely loved the beta, gameplay feels like a solid progression from world as does the living world and weather systems.
I played early access on ps5 for a few days on performance mode. While the frame rate was generally pretty good, the image quality was absolutely terrible on my 27” monitor. I can’t imagine how much worse it would be if playing on a large screen 4k tv. I can see the ps5 pro’s PSSR making a huge difference in this title at launch.
I switched to pc for the open beta and the visuals were a massive step up from those on ps5, as was the frame rate which comfortably maintained 60fps.
Cannot wait for full release and am fairly confident, as a massive fan of the series, that this will be my 2025 goty.
Re: PS5 Pro vs PS5: Full Tech Specs Comparison
@Darylb88 not particularly surprising - it’s the most expensive Sony console of all time even including the original ps3 and accounting for inflation (£697 for the higher tier model and with a disc drive). It’s also launching with the same base ps5 cpu and still at a time when economic prosperity and job security is an ongoing issue.
I don’t think it’s going to be difficult to source a ps5 pro at any point in time unless Sony drastically cut back production levels.
Re: Monster Hunter Wilds Beta: Start Times, How to Access, and Rewards
A few days early access on ps5 before I switch to my pc for the ultimate hunting experience. Can’t wait. One more sleep - I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve again.
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary Upscaler PSSR Is Looking Very Promising
As a pc player ai upscalers sounded fantastic when they were first introduced - free extra performance at the same resolution targets, great.
The reality is, most devs now use upscalers as a means to reduce the resources that were once allocated to optimisation. In the past pc games targeted native resolutions, now pretty much every game lists recommended and minimum settings using upscalers with projected frame rates achieved through ai frame generation. The “extra performance” promised from these technologies has been completely eroded to the point where they are being used to achieve baseline performance at the expense of optimisation.
Re: Marvel's Spider-Man 2 Web Swings to PC in January 2025
@truerbluer not really, the early coverage of ps5 pro by tech experts has been unanimously positive especially with those who have gone hands on with the system. PS5 pro will offer the best console experience across the board for multi platform and first party games for the remainder of this generation at a premium £700. We don’t know the system requirements for the pc version of spider man 2 yet - but I doubt that a £700 system will wipe the floor with the ps5 pro version. A 4090 would, but I would argue that if you can afford or own that system you were never in the market for a PlayStation, particularly if you play at high frame rates and ultrawide.
The massive difference between PlayStation and Xbox largely comes down to the fact that ps4 launched at a more competitive price point and was a more powerful system that didn’t market itself as an entertainment box. PlayStation has far better marketing than Xbox and also has people tied into their ecosystem from the ps4 generation. They had the call of duty marketing rights for 8 years and have been one of the main sponsors for the uefa champions league football tournament since 1997. I see PlayStation marketing all the time in the uk - I can’t remember the last time I saw an Xbox ad, probably for halo or gears of war back in the 360 era days.
Re: Marvel's Spider-Man 2 Web Swings to PC in January 2025
@truerbluer a ridiculous statement. The Sony PlayStation brand is stronger than ever - particularly in Europe. The pc and console markets aren’t the same and the vast majority of PlayStation’s profits are generated by casual gamers.
Yes, pc might be a threat to the enthusiast market, but for Sony that’s a very small proportion of their player base. Sony are also attempting to cater to this demographic with the release of the ps5 pro. Microsoft are struggling, not because of pc, but because of PlayStation - many players switched to PlayStation during the Xbox one generation and this trend has continued with the launch of ps5. There’s only 2 players left in the high end console space and I can’t see Microsoft returning in any way to threaten Sony’s lead. The main concern for consumers is that PlayStation are moving towards a position of complete market dominance.
Nintendo do their own thing and aren’t really in competition with anyone right now. Sony’s biggest worry for the future isn’t Microsoft or Nintendo, it’s the popularity of mobile gaming and the advent of improved cloud streaming technologies. This is true for all the major players in the console industry and to a lesser extent the pc market.
Re: Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Showcases the Problem with Sony's Games on PS5 Pro
@Flaming_Kaiser yes ps5 slim did exactly the same. My point was that the newer released series x consoles aren’t identical to the launch editions, there has been some changes to the SoC and the designs of the boards.
For the record, I have a pc so have no horse in this race. I have a significant cpu upgrade over all current gen consoles, including the pro and a decent gpu which is more powerful than anything offered by consoles and has access to all the latest Nvidia ai tech.
I was tempted to upgrade my base ps5 to the pro before knowing the price - over $800 with the stand and disc drive. Instead I put the money into a gpu upgrade. The ps5 pro improvements are marginal - especially if you play on a 1440p 27” oled like myself.
Re: Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Showcases the Problem with Sony's Games on PS5 Pro
@wildcat_kickz actually there are some improvements over the original launch series x. Microsoft have moved production of the SoC to a 6nm process meaning that newer series x consoles run more efficiently than the original systems. They have a slightly reduced power draw and can be cooled more easily. I do agree that $600 is still a terrible price point for the 2tb model.
Re: Monster Hunter Wilds Showcase Will Debut 'New Details' Next Week
@Dom_31 we still don’t know if that’s 60fps using frame generation, like wukong on ps5. Given that the pc recommended spec requirements are using frame generation to achieve 60fps I’d say it’s pretty likely that the ps5 is too. Which means it’ll feel more like 30 due to the input delay inherent when using frame generation at sub native 60fps.
Re: PS5 May Soon Be Unchallenged by Xbox in Some Regions
Let’s all cheer for Microsoft’s demise and celebrate the almighty Sony PlayStation as they move ever closer to achieving the monopoly status wished for by the most fervent of fanboys.
All hail higher pricing, smaller innovation and reduced consumer welfare!
Re: Aug 2024 USA Sales: Console Sales Take a Sharp Decline, But PS5 Is Still King
@LowDefAl Well, yes, if you reduce the price of any luxury product with the exception of a giffen good, you’ll capture more of the demand curve and therefore see more sales.
As you point out, Sony are unable to reduce costs of the ps5 to the levels achieved on the ps4. The ps4 slim launched roughly 3 years after the launch of the original unit for $100 less. The ps5 slim launched at the same price as the original launch unit. So at the current, and probable long-term pricing of the ps5, saturation point is being reached.
Re: Aug 2024 USA Sales: Console Sales Take a Sharp Decline, But PS5 Is Still King
I think the issue of ps5 console sales slowdown is more to do with the fact that the market is saturated, not the lack of exclusive first party titles.
Generation alpha are now gaming more on their phones and with f2p titles, if they play traditional titles it tends to be on pc where most streamers are also playing. Mobile gaming is essentially “free” as the majority have relatively capable handsets on contracts, it’s also more convenient and accessible than traditional consoles.
Development costs are increasing alongside hardware costs and consoles are no longer as profitable as they once were. Triple a game development is also far more of a risk - games are far more likely to underperform in the current market than they are to produce a return of significant value to investors.
I don’t envy Sony trying to navigate the current economic climate and markets whilst maintaining profits capable of placating their shareholders. They don’t have the fallback capital available to Microsoft and to a lesser extent Nintendo.
Re: Until Dawn Is One of Sony's Worst Performing PC Ports to Date
Anyone here thinking that until dawn’s pc sales aren’t a reflection on the fact that it’s an expensive remaster of an average ps4 title rather than the fact PlayStation titles don’t sell well on pc is deluded. This won’t sell well on PlayStation either, does that mean PlayStation games don’t sell on PlayStation too and Sony should quit that strategy?
If Sony wanted to actually shift pc copies, they’d release first party titles day and date on steam. As it is they’re trying to have their cake and eat it - they want to sell copies on pc, but they delay the majority of their first party output by years and expect to still have the same success on steam that they do on PlayStation.
Anyone on pc that hasn’t got a PlayStation yet because they’re holding out for the pc release was never that interested in getting a PlayStation to begin with. I have a pc and a PlayStation, the only titles I play on my ps5 are those that are added to PlayStation plus extra. I’d rather wait and pay the money for the game on pc to play a significantly better version. If PlayStation abandoned pc, I’d still just wait for titles to hit PlayStation plus extra - I’m not paying a premium to play an inferior version of a game. (I can pick up most new titles on pc digitally for about £40 vs £70 on PlayStation).
Re: Diablo 4 Joins Growing List of Games That'll Be PS5 Pro Enhanced
I don’t think Microsoft have any problem supporting ps5 pro, they consider pc to be part of the Xbox ecosystem so would argue that their games play best on the pc platform not ps5 pro. Obviously, this is just a PR spin on the fact that ps5 pro provides the best console experience for Microsoft studios games.
Re: Microsoft Is Investigating Why Devs Are Prioritising PS5 Over Xbox
@DonJorginho harder dev tools? Possibly, but then that would also be true of pc - both use direct x. PlayStation use bespoke development tools unique to their platform unlike Xbox which shares commonality with pc. It’s one of the reasons why PlayStation bought nixxes, they specialise in porting to pc (which ironically would probably make them fairly adept at porting PlayStation games to Xbox).
I think it’s more likely that optimisation is harder for the limited power of series s compared to ps5 and obviously the Xbox series install base is half the size of PlayStation 5’s.
Re: Tech Experts Reckon PS5 Pro Could Help Pave the Way to PS6
Pave the way to higher pricing?
Re: Bickering Begins Over PS5 Pro's Inability to Sell Out
Did psvr2 sell out when it was first available for pre order? I ordered one, and don’t remember having any difficulty. (I did return it for a full refund a few days later). That sold pretty well at launch and obviously then fell away massively. I wonder if the pro will follow the same trajectory? I don’t see it being difficult to buy at Christmas tbh
Re: Bickering Begins Over PS5 Pro's Inability to Sell Out
At least the scalpers will have a hard time lining their pockets. Hopefully those individuals intending to make money from the scarcity of the pro end up losing money.
Re: Fans Appear to Be Coming Around to PS5 Pro
They’re still available to pre-order, right? Not exactly flying off the shelves. PS5 pre-orders closed within a few hours due to demand. There’s a lot of people that were happy to upgrade to the PS4 pro from the base machine that aren’t doing so for PS5 pro, and an awful lot more that haven’t yet transitioned to PS5 that won’t be doing so with pro.
This isn’t going to sell a lot of units and certainly won’t surpass the PS4 pro’s mediocre sales numbers. If Xbox have taught us anything, it’s that consoles with lower install bases aren’t supported as well as those with the highest. PS4 pro wasn’t particularly well supported outside of first party, I don’t expect PS5 pro to be any different.
Curiously did pushsquare exist at the time of PS4 pro’s launch, and if so did they run a similar poll regarding buying intent? The results, I’m sure, would be far more positive than those for PS5 pro.
Re: Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater Looks Sublime on PS5
Never got around to playing the original snake eater release despite enjoying and finishing sons of liberty on ps2. Looking forward to playing through this when it launches.
Re: Scalpers Want $10k to Try to Buy You a 30th Anniversary PS5 Pro
$10k, for a “chance” at securing a ps5 pro 30th anniversary edition? Do they also sell lottery tickets for $10k with a chance of winning the jackpot? 😂
Re: Rumour: PS6 Could Span a Console and Handheld Device
@thefourfoldroot1 to be honest, given the price of the pro, I fully expect the handheld or secondary console to be a series s power-like option. If Sony wish to continue to have a mass market machine without taking a massive hit on hardware costs they’ll need to compromise on power to meet a $400-$500 price point.
Re: The Novelty of PlayStation's PC Ports Does Appear to Be Dampening
@SeanOhOgain yep, but nothing new there, the reporting here always tends towards sensationalism. I’m also not sure why they’re using the word “novelty”. Sony certainly don’t consider their pc strategy a novelty, and as someone that’s bought several Sony studios titles on pc I didn’t do so for their novelty value.
Re: PS5's Building Insurmountable Lead Over Rival, Outselling Xbox Almost 3:1
Glad I switched to pc - a sony monopoly on high end console gaming is not a future I want to be a part of.
PC and switch 2 sounding like the perfect gaming hardware composition right now.
Re: Jaw-Dropping 30th Anniversary PS5 Pro Console and Accessories Will Bankrupt You
Read the headline - “… will bankrupt you”
I mean, welcome to the Sony ecosystem, “for the payers” 😁
Re: Sony Priming 'Even Less Exciting' PS5 Remaster for State of Play
In before “knack 2” remaster - now with added ray tracing to take full advantage of your ps5 pro 😁
Re: Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's Huge PS5 Pro Enhancements Are a 'Vast Improvement'
@get2sammyb that’s the problem, you’re paying £700 and just hoping that you’ll get to play future releases at 60fps. Sony have even said that there will be 30fps games on the pro
Re: Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's Huge PS5 Pro Enhancements Are a 'Vast Improvement'
Looking forward to the digital foundry analysis of gta 6 on the ps5 pro to see what an 80% cost premium gets you over the base digital slim edition 😊
Re: PS5 Exclusives Final Fantasy 16, Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth Failed to Meet Expectations
Yeah, what do you expect when you launch as a ps5 console exclusive and have unrealistic sales targets? Missing out both the PC and Xbox markets is obviously going to result in lower sales.
If you want to maximise sales, you launch on as many marketplaces as possible. If you’re being paid for exclusivity, you need to adjust your sales targets accordingly and accept that you’re being financially compensated for those sales losses.
The Tomb Raider reboot in 2013 was pretty successful, but it failed to meet Square Enix’s internal sales targets, despite achieving 3.4 million sales pretty soon after release and going on to become the best selling game in series history.
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
What a time to be alive, the generation of the remaster continues. I wonder if this will be a $70 launch title for the ps5 pro (only available digitally obviously) 😉
Re: PS5 Pro Shows Real Promise in First Expert Analysis
You should be getting a “game changer” for $700. You should also get a disc tray and a vertical stand.
Re: Feature: PS5 Pro's Been Clowned on By the Entire Internet, and the Memes Will Make You Laugh
@Mikey856 I’d rather pay for pc where I can choose my frame rate. £700 for some games to be 30fps doesn’t sound that great to me.
Re: Prospective PS5 Pro Buyers Cause Disc Drives to Sell Out
@Pranwell the disc is detachable, if they give it to you at cost you can sell it at cost or make a profit. Also, if they give it at cost I imagine it would add maybe $40 to the cost of the machine rather than the $99 it would cost to buy separately.
Or, more simply, like the slim, add a disc edition at cost, for roughly $40 more.
Sony shouldn’t be profiteering off of people with physical editions just because they operate a closed system online.
Re: How to Pre-Order PS5 Pro
The only way this thing sells out at launch is if Sony deliberately restrict stock levels to maintain the narrative that the pro is a high demand item.
It will be interesting how transparent they are with sales numbers or if they do another psvr2 and keep those figures close to their chest. Either way, we’ll know how successful ps5 pro has been.