@truerbluer not really, the early coverage of ps5 pro by tech experts has been unanimously positive especially with those who have gone hands on with the system. PS5 pro will offer the best console experience across the board for multi platform and first party games for the remainder of this generation at a premium £700. We don’t know the system requirements for the pc version of spider man 2 yet - but I doubt that a £700 system will wipe the floor with the ps5 pro version. A 4090 would, but I would argue that if you can afford or own that system you were never in the market for a PlayStation, particularly if you play at high frame rates and ultrawide.
The massive difference between PlayStation and Xbox largely comes down to the fact that ps4 launched at a more competitive price point and was a more powerful system that didn’t market itself as an entertainment box. PlayStation has far better marketing than Xbox and also has people tied into their ecosystem from the ps4 generation. They had the call of duty marketing rights for 8 years and have been one of the main sponsors for the uefa champions league football tournament since 1997. I see PlayStation marketing all the time in the uk - I can’t remember the last time I saw an Xbox ad, probably for halo or gears of war back in the 360 era days.
@truerbluer a ridiculous statement. The Sony PlayStation brand is stronger than ever - particularly in Europe. The pc and console markets aren’t the same and the vast majority of PlayStation’s profits are generated by casual gamers.
Yes, pc might be a threat to the enthusiast market, but for Sony that’s a very small proportion of their player base. Sony are also attempting to cater to this demographic with the release of the ps5 pro. Microsoft are struggling, not because of pc, but because of PlayStation - many players switched to PlayStation during the Xbox one generation and this trend has continued with the launch of ps5. There’s only 2 players left in the high end console space and I can’t see Microsoft returning in any way to threaten Sony’s lead. The main concern for consumers is that PlayStation are moving towards a position of complete market dominance.
Nintendo do their own thing and aren’t really in competition with anyone right now. Sony’s biggest worry for the future isn’t Microsoft or Nintendo, it’s the popularity of mobile gaming and the advent of improved cloud streaming technologies. This is true for all the major players in the console industry and to a lesser extent the pc market.
@Flaming_Kaiser yes ps5 slim did exactly the same. My point was that the newer released series x consoles aren’t identical to the launch editions, there has been some changes to the SoC and the designs of the boards.
For the record, I have a pc so have no horse in this race. I have a significant cpu upgrade over all current gen consoles, including the pro and a decent gpu which is more powerful than anything offered by consoles and has access to all the latest Nvidia ai tech.
I was tempted to upgrade my base ps5 to the pro before knowing the price - over $800 with the stand and disc drive. Instead I put the money into a gpu upgrade. The ps5 pro improvements are marginal - especially if you play on a 1440p 27” oled like myself.
@wildcat_kickz actually there are some improvements over the original launch series x. Microsoft have moved production of the SoC to a 6nm process meaning that newer series x consoles run more efficiently than the original systems. They have a slightly reduced power draw and can be cooled more easily. I do agree that $600 is still a terrible price point for the 2tb model.
@Dom_31 we still don’t know if that’s 60fps using frame generation, like wukong on ps5. Given that the pc recommended spec requirements are using frame generation to achieve 60fps I’d say it’s pretty likely that the ps5 is too. Which means it’ll feel more like 30 due to the input delay inherent when using frame generation at sub native 60fps.
Let’s all cheer for Microsoft’s demise and celebrate the almighty Sony PlayStation as they move ever closer to achieving the monopoly status wished for by the most fervent of fanboys.
All hail higher pricing, smaller innovation and reduced consumer welfare!
@LowDefAl Well, yes, if you reduce the price of any luxury product with the exception of a giffen good, you’ll capture more of the demand curve and therefore see more sales.
As you point out, Sony are unable to reduce costs of the ps5 to the levels achieved on the ps4. The ps4 slim launched roughly 3 years after the launch of the original unit for $100 less. The ps5 slim launched at the same price as the original launch unit. So at the current, and probable long-term pricing of the ps5, saturation point is being reached.
I think the issue of ps5 console sales slowdown is more to do with the fact that the market is saturated, not the lack of exclusive first party titles.
Generation alpha are now gaming more on their phones and with f2p titles, if they play traditional titles it tends to be on pc where most streamers are also playing. Mobile gaming is essentially “free” as the majority have relatively capable handsets on contracts, it’s also more convenient and accessible than traditional consoles.
Development costs are increasing alongside hardware costs and consoles are no longer as profitable as they once were. Triple a game development is also far more of a risk - games are far more likely to underperform in the current market than they are to produce a return of significant value to investors.
I don’t envy Sony trying to navigate the current economic climate and markets whilst maintaining profits capable of placating their shareholders. They don’t have the fallback capital available to Microsoft and to a lesser extent Nintendo.
Anyone here thinking that until dawn’s pc sales aren’t a reflection on the fact that it’s an expensive remaster of an average ps4 title rather than the fact PlayStation titles don’t sell well on pc is deluded. This won’t sell well on PlayStation either, does that mean PlayStation games don’t sell on PlayStation too and Sony should quit that strategy?
If Sony wanted to actually shift pc copies, they’d release first party titles day and date on steam. As it is they’re trying to have their cake and eat it - they want to sell copies on pc, but they delay the majority of their first party output by years and expect to still have the same success on steam that they do on PlayStation.
Anyone on pc that hasn’t got a PlayStation yet because they’re holding out for the pc release was never that interested in getting a PlayStation to begin with. I have a pc and a PlayStation, the only titles I play on my ps5 are those that are added to PlayStation plus extra. I’d rather wait and pay the money for the game on pc to play a significantly better version. If PlayStation abandoned pc, I’d still just wait for titles to hit PlayStation plus extra - I’m not paying a premium to play an inferior version of a game. (I can pick up most new titles on pc digitally for about £40 vs £70 on PlayStation).
I don’t think Microsoft have any problem supporting ps5 pro, they consider pc to be part of the Xbox ecosystem so would argue that their games play best on the pc platform not ps5 pro. Obviously, this is just a PR spin on the fact that ps5 pro provides the best console experience for Microsoft studios games.
@DonJorginho harder dev tools? Possibly, but then that would also be true of pc - both use direct x. PlayStation use bespoke development tools unique to their platform unlike Xbox which shares commonality with pc. It’s one of the reasons why PlayStation bought nixxes, they specialise in porting to pc (which ironically would probably make them fairly adept at porting PlayStation games to Xbox).
I think it’s more likely that optimisation is harder for the limited power of series s compared to ps5 and obviously the Xbox series install base is half the size of PlayStation 5’s.
Did psvr2 sell out when it was first available for pre order? I ordered one, and don’t remember having any difficulty. (I did return it for a full refund a few days later). That sold pretty well at launch and obviously then fell away massively. I wonder if the pro will follow the same trajectory? I don’t see it being difficult to buy at Christmas tbh
At least the scalpers will have a hard time lining their pockets. Hopefully those individuals intending to make money from the scarcity of the pro end up losing money.
They’re still available to pre-order, right? Not exactly flying off the shelves. PS5 pre-orders closed within a few hours due to demand. There’s a lot of people that were happy to upgrade to the PS4 pro from the base machine that aren’t doing so for PS5 pro, and an awful lot more that haven’t yet transitioned to PS5 that won’t be doing so with pro.
This isn’t going to sell a lot of units and certainly won’t surpass the PS4 pro’s mediocre sales numbers. If Xbox have taught us anything, it’s that consoles with lower install bases aren’t supported as well as those with the highest. PS4 pro wasn’t particularly well supported outside of first party, I don’t expect PS5 pro to be any different.
Curiously did pushsquare exist at the time of PS4 pro’s launch, and if so did they run a similar poll regarding buying intent? The results, I’m sure, would be far more positive than those for PS5 pro.
Never got around to playing the original snake eater release despite enjoying and finishing sons of liberty on ps2. Looking forward to playing through this when it launches.
$10k, for a “chance” at securing a ps5 pro 30th anniversary edition? Do they also sell lottery tickets for $10k with a chance of winning the jackpot? 😂
@thefourfoldroot1 to be honest, given the price of the pro, I fully expect the handheld or secondary console to be a series s power-like option. If Sony wish to continue to have a mass market machine without taking a massive hit on hardware costs they’ll need to compromise on power to meet a $400-$500 price point.
@SeanOhOgain yep, but nothing new there, the reporting here always tends towards sensationalism. I’m also not sure why they’re using the word “novelty”. Sony certainly don’t consider their pc strategy a novelty, and as someone that’s bought several Sony studios titles on pc I didn’t do so for their novelty value.
@get2sammyb that’s the problem, you’re paying £700 and just hoping that you’ll get to play future releases at 60fps. Sony have even said that there will be 30fps games on the pro
Yeah, what do you expect when you launch as a ps5 console exclusive and have unrealistic sales targets? Missing out both the PC and Xbox markets is obviously going to result in lower sales.
If you want to maximise sales, you launch on as many marketplaces as possible. If you’re being paid for exclusivity, you need to adjust your sales targets accordingly and accept that you’re being financially compensated for those sales losses.
The Tomb Raider reboot in 2013 was pretty successful, but it failed to meet Square Enix’s internal sales targets, despite achieving 3.4 million sales pretty soon after release and going on to become the best selling game in series history.
What a time to be alive, the generation of the remaster continues. I wonder if this will be a $70 launch title for the ps5 pro (only available digitally obviously) 😉
@Pranwell the disc is detachable, if they give it to you at cost you can sell it at cost or make a profit. Also, if they give it at cost I imagine it would add maybe $40 to the cost of the machine rather than the $99 it would cost to buy separately.
Or, more simply, like the slim, add a disc edition at cost, for roughly $40 more.
Sony shouldn’t be profiteering off of people with physical editions just because they operate a closed system online.
The only way this thing sells out at launch is if Sony deliberately restrict stock levels to maintain the narrative that the pro is a high demand item.
It will be interesting how transparent they are with sales numbers or if they do another psvr2 and keep those figures close to their chest. Either way, we’ll know how successful ps5 pro has been.
“We’ve omitted the disc drive to keep the price of the ps5 pro competitive” - Sony
Reality is, a digital only console gives Sony a 100% revenue stream on all software. The $99 disc drive has a sizeable mark-up. If they were to include it at cost I’m sure it wouldn’t push the cost of the machine up by anything close to $99. By not providing a disc tray they’re setting themselves up for greater revenue and eliminating software resale. They’re also taxing anyone who wants to buy the disc tray by virtue of a significant mark-up. Not really a pro consumer move.
In the uk the ps5 pro will be launching at roughly 1.8 times the price of the ps5 slim digital edition. So for 1.8 times the cost you’re only getting roughly 1.45 times the render speed according to Mark Cerny. Somehow making £700 seem even more expensive.
The pro will also require developers to put extra work in to properly harness and maximise that extra power and feature set. PS4 pro saw minimal extra provision outside of first party and didn’t really set the world on fire in terms of sales vs base model. The price point of the PS5 pro suggests it won’t come anywhere near PS4 pro sales, especially in the current economic climate.
Yes games will perform better on the pro than the base console, but in the vast majority of titles you won’t be getting an 80% performance lift, especially given the cpu is largely identical between models.
People buying this have money to burn. PS6 will be out in a few years for $1k without an external case, ram or a hdd - if you want those additions it’ll cost you an extra $600. Wouldn’t you rather save for this inevitability?
I think it’s more a case of Sony leaning heavily upon tried and tested IP. I’m really hoping that naughty dog’s next title is a new IP rather than another last of us or remake.
Returnal from housemarque games is a new IP that had a relatively successful launch at the beginning of this generation, although I’m struggling to think of anything else.
Sony aren’t there yet, but they are moving closer to replicating the 360 days of relying upon third party and only releasing sequels to the same big three first party blockbusters.
Sony are really all over the place this generation.
The ps5 console hardware is a huge success and dominating pretty much every market, but then you have psvr2 which seems to just be on life support and feels like it has been abandoned by Sony. Especially true after the announcement and release of a pc adapter that doesn’t even support the headset’s usp - foveated rendering and eye tracking.
Helldivers 2 broke steam records when it launched on ps5 and pc, then concord followed, was closed down within 2 weeks of going on sale and will be remembered as the single biggest flop in video game history.
Returnal 2 was an amazing new IP that launched to critical acclaim from studio housmarque games and was a hugely ambitious follow up to their previous ps4 game resogun. A studio that has managed to exceed expectations and ship an absolute aaa banger. There have also been some well received sequels from insomniac with spider man 2, Santa Monica studios with god of war ragnarok and horizon forbidden west from guerrilla games.
However, Naughty dog, arguably Sony’s flagship studio, have shipped 2 games on ps5. One of these being a remake of a remaster of a ps3 game, and the other being a remaster of a game that thanks to backward compatibility already ran at 60fps on ps5 and still looked pretty much identical to the remaster. They also had their live service game, factions, cancelled. To date, we have absolutely no idea what the studio is working on.
This Sony generation has been a rollercoaster of ups and downs in my opinion.
I bought a pc purely because I wanted a consistent 60fps that didn’t look like I’d smeared Vaseline all over the screen of my tv.
Final fantasy 16 was the console game that convinced me to buy a pc and I haven’t looked back since. Consoles are a great entry point, but outside of Nintendo I currently don’t see any reason for me to buy the next PlayStation or Xbox iteration when I can enjoy better versions of those games on pc (I don’t mind waiting on PlayStation’s pc ports).
I’m looking forward to mh wilds and have zero concerns about performance or visuals thanks to owning a capable pc. The same is true for avowed, a title that won’t have rtx or 60fps on series x at launch.
It’s not that consoles are dying per-se, it’s that the margins on hardware are considerably slimmer and the cost of triple A development considerably higher and more time consuming.
Nintendo have been quite smart, whether by accident or design, by bowing out of the console hardware arms race. In doing so, they have slowed the costs of software development and have been able to focus more on gameplay than pushing 4k textures, ridiculously high poly character models and huge asset stacked open worlds.
The switch has also always been sold at profit and the margins have increased significantly over its lifetime.
@OldGamer999 just curious, but how do you define a triple A? I think Astro bot looks absolutely fantastic if you love platformers, but I’m not sure I’d personally consider this a AAA game.
I think ratchet and clank rift apart looks far more visually impressive from a technical level while Astro bot definitely looks like it could run on a ps4. I’m sure Astro bot will have amazing gameplay, but it doesn’t look like something AAA that had a budget of $100+ million. Which I guess is how I would technically define AAA, and why I would consider rift apart to fall into that AAA category.
Would you consider hi-fi rush a triple AAA title for instance?
@Artois2 clearly there’s very few people that “like different things” on pc. In fact it seems there’s several million that like familiar souls-like things in the form of wukong.
I feel bad for the developers and those that worked on the game, as if this game fails I’m not sure where that puts the studio.
Having said that, making a live service game is a high risk venture in itself and as other titles have shown, costly to maintain and difficult to sustain engagement. To have any chance of success you need to be beating the current competition in either gameplay, character design or reach. This game does neither.
The gameplay isn’t ground breaking, the characters are forgettable and the title isn’t available on switch, xbox or mobile. It’s also not f2p which further limits its potential audience.
I don’t think anyone is surprised by the fact that this, at least on pc, isn’t ripping up the market.
I think the big issue with 60fps on console is two-fold:
Firstly, how many of the people picking up a title care about high frame rates on console? They’re a mass market machine, and the casual market tends to account for the majority of sales. This casual player base is often the same player base that state they can’t tell the difference between 30 and 60fps.
Secondly, higher frame rates are usually preferred not for the way a game looks, but largely for the responsiveness and feel of that game when playing. When it comes to marketing a game, it’s far more effective to do so with graphical fidelity than with frames per second.
Consoles have always tended to prioritise graphics over frame rate. This priority also seems to get worse the further into a generation we go and the more dated the hardware becomes.
Both ps5 and series x launched with very strong GPU’s (close to the equivalent power of the 2070). But the CPU’s, whilst being an upgrade, would still have been considered something of a bottleneck by pc standards at launch.
I think the biggest issue with game’s not being able to hit 60fps today lies more with the CPU’s of modern consoles than it does the GPU’s.
Is this confirmed to be gameplay running on a ps5 rather than a high end pc? If so, it looks very impressive and makes me feel a lot more confident about its performance on console.
@Logonogo well if you’re playing on a console you’re never going to get absolute perfection from a third party multi-platform title of this scope, especially on dated hardware.
The only games I use my ps5 for are first party titles - they usually have amazing optimisation, look great and have a locked performance mode.
The current consoles balance price with performance and as a result there will be compromises. The only reason a PC can offer better performance is because the hardware can be exponentially more powerful and therefore usually capable of brute forcing less optimised titles.
@Logonogo “absolute perfection” - no one on pc is asking for absolute perfection, having a game that literally pauses when traversing the world or mid-combat is so far from perfection it’s not even close. Having some frame drops is fine, as you say nobody is expecting absolute perfection from a small studio. In fact, if you play pc, you’re very much used to games not having perfect optimisation.
Unreal engine seems to have massive issues with frame stutter on pc. I noticed it a lot when playing lords of the fallen, it’s present in hellblade 2 and in this game, it’s even present in Fortnite epic’s own title.
I find these stutters borderline unplayable - to go from 80+fps to 0fps is incredibly jarring and borderline unplayable for me. Especially when they persist throughout the game. With this issue plaguing pretty much every recent unreal title on pc I’m at the point now where I’d rather devs use any engine other than unreal on pc.
@Vaako007 pc gaming currently has 3 major gpu manufacturers - Nvidia, AMD and most recently Intel. Neither of the three have exclusive software and all three offer unique versions of upscaling technology and AI computation.
Some software is sponsored by a particular manufacturer and may offer features unique to that gpu - Nvidia rtx is a relatively prevalent example of that feature set.
Wukong released today - it’s an Nvidia sponsored title with RTX and DLSS technologies. It is not an exclusive title and can still be played on AMD and Intel gpu’s supporting both FSR and XeSS.
The only people to benefit from software exclusivity are corporate shareholders. I’ve never had any issue with PlayStation owners having access to Xbox studio titles - it has absolutely no impact on the enjoyment I gained from playing those titles on Xbox. In regards to multiplayer titles with crossplay it actually benefits Xbox players by virtue of providing a larger player base from which to match. The argument can also be made that a good game has more chance of getting a sequel or continued support the more copies it sells - multiplatform games typically sell more titles than exclusives.
The more people that get to enjoy a game the better in my view. Ideally people shouldn’t have to own two sets of very similar hardware just to be able to play certain titles that are restricted to one machine.
I’d hate to have to have an AMD, Intel and Nvidia pc just to be able to play a specific game
I’d happily junk my ps5 if Sony were to release their first party titles day and date on pc. As it is I’m waiting on Spider-Man 2 to either hit pc or become available on ps plus extra. Not sure I’ll be prepared to do the same once naughty dog’s next title hits though
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Re: Marvel's Spider-Man 2 Web Swings to PC in January 2025
@truerbluer not really, the early coverage of ps5 pro by tech experts has been unanimously positive especially with those who have gone hands on with the system. PS5 pro will offer the best console experience across the board for multi platform and first party games for the remainder of this generation at a premium £700. We don’t know the system requirements for the pc version of spider man 2 yet - but I doubt that a £700 system will wipe the floor with the ps5 pro version. A 4090 would, but I would argue that if you can afford or own that system you were never in the market for a PlayStation, particularly if you play at high frame rates and ultrawide.
The massive difference between PlayStation and Xbox largely comes down to the fact that ps4 launched at a more competitive price point and was a more powerful system that didn’t market itself as an entertainment box. PlayStation has far better marketing than Xbox and also has people tied into their ecosystem from the ps4 generation. They had the call of duty marketing rights for 8 years and have been one of the main sponsors for the uefa champions league football tournament since 1997. I see PlayStation marketing all the time in the uk - I can’t remember the last time I saw an Xbox ad, probably for halo or gears of war back in the 360 era days.
Re: Marvel's Spider-Man 2 Web Swings to PC in January 2025
@truerbluer a ridiculous statement. The Sony PlayStation brand is stronger than ever - particularly in Europe. The pc and console markets aren’t the same and the vast majority of PlayStation’s profits are generated by casual gamers.
Yes, pc might be a threat to the enthusiast market, but for Sony that’s a very small proportion of their player base. Sony are also attempting to cater to this demographic with the release of the ps5 pro. Microsoft are struggling, not because of pc, but because of PlayStation - many players switched to PlayStation during the Xbox one generation and this trend has continued with the launch of ps5. There’s only 2 players left in the high end console space and I can’t see Microsoft returning in any way to threaten Sony’s lead. The main concern for consumers is that PlayStation are moving towards a position of complete market dominance.
Nintendo do their own thing and aren’t really in competition with anyone right now. Sony’s biggest worry for the future isn’t Microsoft or Nintendo, it’s the popularity of mobile gaming and the advent of improved cloud streaming technologies. This is true for all the major players in the console industry and to a lesser extent the pc market.
Re: Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Showcases the Problem with Sony's Games on PS5 Pro
@Flaming_Kaiser yes ps5 slim did exactly the same. My point was that the newer released series x consoles aren’t identical to the launch editions, there has been some changes to the SoC and the designs of the boards.
For the record, I have a pc so have no horse in this race. I have a significant cpu upgrade over all current gen consoles, including the pro and a decent gpu which is more powerful than anything offered by consoles and has access to all the latest Nvidia ai tech.
I was tempted to upgrade my base ps5 to the pro before knowing the price - over $800 with the stand and disc drive. Instead I put the money into a gpu upgrade. The ps5 pro improvements are marginal - especially if you play on a 1440p 27” oled like myself.
Re: Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Showcases the Problem with Sony's Games on PS5 Pro
@wildcat_kickz actually there are some improvements over the original launch series x. Microsoft have moved production of the SoC to a 6nm process meaning that newer series x consoles run more efficiently than the original systems. They have a slightly reduced power draw and can be cooled more easily. I do agree that $600 is still a terrible price point for the 2tb model.
Re: Monster Hunter Wilds Showcase Will Debut 'New Details' Next Week
@Dom_31 we still don’t know if that’s 60fps using frame generation, like wukong on ps5. Given that the pc recommended spec requirements are using frame generation to achieve 60fps I’d say it’s pretty likely that the ps5 is too. Which means it’ll feel more like 30 due to the input delay inherent when using frame generation at sub native 60fps.
Re: PS5 May Soon Be Unchallenged by Xbox in Some Regions
Let’s all cheer for Microsoft’s demise and celebrate the almighty Sony PlayStation as they move ever closer to achieving the monopoly status wished for by the most fervent of fanboys.
All hail higher pricing, smaller innovation and reduced consumer welfare!
Re: Aug 2024 USA Sales: Console Sales Take a Sharp Decline, But PS5 Is Still King
@LowDefAl Well, yes, if you reduce the price of any luxury product with the exception of a giffen good, you’ll capture more of the demand curve and therefore see more sales.
As you point out, Sony are unable to reduce costs of the ps5 to the levels achieved on the ps4. The ps4 slim launched roughly 3 years after the launch of the original unit for $100 less. The ps5 slim launched at the same price as the original launch unit. So at the current, and probable long-term pricing of the ps5, saturation point is being reached.
Re: Aug 2024 USA Sales: Console Sales Take a Sharp Decline, But PS5 Is Still King
I think the issue of ps5 console sales slowdown is more to do with the fact that the market is saturated, not the lack of exclusive first party titles.
Generation alpha are now gaming more on their phones and with f2p titles, if they play traditional titles it tends to be on pc where most streamers are also playing. Mobile gaming is essentially “free” as the majority have relatively capable handsets on contracts, it’s also more convenient and accessible than traditional consoles.
Development costs are increasing alongside hardware costs and consoles are no longer as profitable as they once were. Triple a game development is also far more of a risk - games are far more likely to underperform in the current market than they are to produce a return of significant value to investors.
I don’t envy Sony trying to navigate the current economic climate and markets whilst maintaining profits capable of placating their shareholders. They don’t have the fallback capital available to Microsoft and to a lesser extent Nintendo.
Re: Until Dawn Is One of Sony's Worst Performing PC Ports to Date
Anyone here thinking that until dawn’s pc sales aren’t a reflection on the fact that it’s an expensive remaster of an average ps4 title rather than the fact PlayStation titles don’t sell well on pc is deluded. This won’t sell well on PlayStation either, does that mean PlayStation games don’t sell on PlayStation too and Sony should quit that strategy?
If Sony wanted to actually shift pc copies, they’d release first party titles day and date on steam. As it is they’re trying to have their cake and eat it - they want to sell copies on pc, but they delay the majority of their first party output by years and expect to still have the same success on steam that they do on PlayStation.
Anyone on pc that hasn’t got a PlayStation yet because they’re holding out for the pc release was never that interested in getting a PlayStation to begin with. I have a pc and a PlayStation, the only titles I play on my ps5 are those that are added to PlayStation plus extra. I’d rather wait and pay the money for the game on pc to play a significantly better version. If PlayStation abandoned pc, I’d still just wait for titles to hit PlayStation plus extra - I’m not paying a premium to play an inferior version of a game. (I can pick up most new titles on pc digitally for about £40 vs £70 on PlayStation).
Re: Diablo 4 Joins Growing List of Games That'll Be PS5 Pro Enhanced
I don’t think Microsoft have any problem supporting ps5 pro, they consider pc to be part of the Xbox ecosystem so would argue that their games play best on the pc platform not ps5 pro. Obviously, this is just a PR spin on the fact that ps5 pro provides the best console experience for Microsoft studios games.
Re: Microsoft Is Investigating Why Devs Are Prioritising PS5 Over Xbox
@DonJorginho harder dev tools? Possibly, but then that would also be true of pc - both use direct x. PlayStation use bespoke development tools unique to their platform unlike Xbox which shares commonality with pc. It’s one of the reasons why PlayStation bought nixxes, they specialise in porting to pc (which ironically would probably make them fairly adept at porting PlayStation games to Xbox).
I think it’s more likely that optimisation is harder for the limited power of series s compared to ps5 and obviously the Xbox series install base is half the size of PlayStation 5’s.
Re: Tech Experts Reckon PS5 Pro Could Help Pave the Way to PS6
Pave the way to higher pricing?
Re: Bickering Begins Over PS5 Pro's Inability to Sell Out
Did psvr2 sell out when it was first available for pre order? I ordered one, and don’t remember having any difficulty. (I did return it for a full refund a few days later). That sold pretty well at launch and obviously then fell away massively. I wonder if the pro will follow the same trajectory? I don’t see it being difficult to buy at Christmas tbh
Re: Bickering Begins Over PS5 Pro's Inability to Sell Out
At least the scalpers will have a hard time lining their pockets. Hopefully those individuals intending to make money from the scarcity of the pro end up losing money.
Re: Fans Appear to Be Coming Around to PS5 Pro
They’re still available to pre-order, right? Not exactly flying off the shelves. PS5 pre-orders closed within a few hours due to demand. There’s a lot of people that were happy to upgrade to the PS4 pro from the base machine that aren’t doing so for PS5 pro, and an awful lot more that haven’t yet transitioned to PS5 that won’t be doing so with pro.
This isn’t going to sell a lot of units and certainly won’t surpass the PS4 pro’s mediocre sales numbers. If Xbox have taught us anything, it’s that consoles with lower install bases aren’t supported as well as those with the highest. PS4 pro wasn’t particularly well supported outside of first party, I don’t expect PS5 pro to be any different.
Curiously did pushsquare exist at the time of PS4 pro’s launch, and if so did they run a similar poll regarding buying intent? The results, I’m sure, would be far more positive than those for PS5 pro.
Re: Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater Looks Sublime on PS5
Never got around to playing the original snake eater release despite enjoying and finishing sons of liberty on ps2. Looking forward to playing through this when it launches.
Re: Scalpers Want $10k to Try to Buy You a 30th Anniversary PS5 Pro
$10k, for a “chance” at securing a ps5 pro 30th anniversary edition? Do they also sell lottery tickets for $10k with a chance of winning the jackpot? 😂
Re: Rumour: PS6 Could Span a Console and Handheld Device
@thefourfoldroot1 to be honest, given the price of the pro, I fully expect the handheld or secondary console to be a series s power-like option. If Sony wish to continue to have a mass market machine without taking a massive hit on hardware costs they’ll need to compromise on power to meet a $400-$500 price point.
Re: The Novelty of PlayStation's PC Ports Does Appear to Be Dampening
@SeanOhOgain yep, but nothing new there, the reporting here always tends towards sensationalism. I’m also not sure why they’re using the word “novelty”. Sony certainly don’t consider their pc strategy a novelty, and as someone that’s bought several Sony studios titles on pc I didn’t do so for their novelty value.
Re: PS5's Building Insurmountable Lead Over Rival, Outselling Xbox Almost 3:1
Glad I switched to pc - a sony monopoly on high end console gaming is not a future I want to be a part of.
PC and switch 2 sounding like the perfect gaming hardware composition right now.
Re: Jaw-Dropping 30th Anniversary PS5 Pro Console and Accessories Will Bankrupt You
Read the headline - “… will bankrupt you”
I mean, welcome to the Sony ecosystem, “for the payers” 😁
Re: Sony Priming 'Even Less Exciting' PS5 Remaster for State of Play
In before “knack 2” remaster - now with added ray tracing to take full advantage of your ps5 pro 😁
Re: Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's Huge PS5 Pro Enhancements Are a 'Vast Improvement'
@get2sammyb that’s the problem, you’re paying £700 and just hoping that you’ll get to play future releases at 60fps. Sony have even said that there will be 30fps games on the pro
Re: Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's Huge PS5 Pro Enhancements Are a 'Vast Improvement'
Looking forward to the digital foundry analysis of gta 6 on the ps5 pro to see what an 80% cost premium gets you over the base digital slim edition 😊
Re: PS5 Exclusives Final Fantasy 16, Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth Failed to Meet Expectations
Yeah, what do you expect when you launch as a ps5 console exclusive and have unrealistic sales targets? Missing out both the PC and Xbox markets is obviously going to result in lower sales.
If you want to maximise sales, you launch on as many marketplaces as possible. If you’re being paid for exclusivity, you need to adjust your sales targets accordingly and accept that you’re being financially compensated for those sales losses.
The Tomb Raider reboot in 2013 was pretty successful, but it failed to meet Square Enix’s internal sales targets, despite achieving 3.4 million sales pretty soon after release and going on to become the best selling game in series history.
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
What a time to be alive, the generation of the remaster continues. I wonder if this will be a $70 launch title for the ps5 pro (only available digitally obviously) 😉
Re: PS5 Pro Shows Real Promise in First Expert Analysis
You should be getting a “game changer” for $700. You should also get a disc tray and a vertical stand.
Re: Feature: PS5 Pro's Been Clowned on By the Entire Internet, and the Memes Will Make You Laugh
@Mikey856 I’d rather pay for pc where I can choose my frame rate. £700 for some games to be 30fps doesn’t sound that great to me.
Re: Prospective PS5 Pro Buyers Cause Disc Drives to Sell Out
@Pranwell the disc is detachable, if they give it to you at cost you can sell it at cost or make a profit. Also, if they give it at cost I imagine it would add maybe $40 to the cost of the machine rather than the $99 it would cost to buy separately.
Or, more simply, like the slim, add a disc edition at cost, for roughly $40 more.
Sony shouldn’t be profiteering off of people with physical editions just because they operate a closed system online.
Re: How to Pre-Order PS5 Pro
The only way this thing sells out at launch is if Sony deliberately restrict stock levels to maintain the narrative that the pro is a high demand item.
It will be interesting how transparent they are with sales numbers or if they do another psvr2 and keep those figures close to their chest. Either way, we’ll know how successful ps5 pro has been.
Re: Prospective PS5 Pro Buyers Cause Surge in Disc Drive Sales
“We’ve omitted the disc drive to keep the price of the ps5 pro competitive” - Sony
Reality is, a digital only console gives Sony a 100% revenue stream on all software. The $99 disc drive has a sizeable mark-up. If they were to include it at cost I’m sure it wouldn’t push the cost of the machine up by anything close to $99. By not providing a disc tray they’re setting themselves up for greater revenue and eliminating software resale. They’re also taxing anyone who wants to buy the disc tray by virtue of a significant mark-up. Not really a pro consumer move.
Re: 'It Felt Like Putting New Glasses On,' Claims First PS5 Pro Hands On
In the uk the ps5 pro will be launching at roughly 1.8 times the price of the ps5 slim digital edition. So for 1.8 times the cost you’re only getting roughly 1.45 times the render speed according to Mark Cerny. Somehow making £700 seem even more expensive.
The pro will also require developers to put extra work in to properly harness and maximise that extra power and feature set. PS4 pro saw minimal extra provision outside of first party and didn’t really set the world on fire in terms of sales vs base model. The price point of the PS5 pro suggests it won’t come anywhere near PS4 pro sales, especially in the current economic climate.
Yes games will perform better on the pro than the base console, but in the vast majority of titles you won’t be getting an 80% performance lift, especially given the cpu is largely identical between models.
Re: Talking Point: Is PS5 Pro Way Too Expensive?
People buying this have money to burn. PS6 will be out in a few years for $1k without an external case, ram or a hdd - if you want those additions it’ll cost you an extra $600. Wouldn’t you rather save for this inevitability?
Re: PS5 Pro Announced, Costs $700 and Out in November
Going to be quite humorous if the ps5 pro can’t run both monster hunter wilds and gta 6 at a locked 60fps for £700
Re: PS5 Pro Announced, Costs $700 and Out in November
Somehow Sony have found a way to make pc gaming look like good value
Re: Sony Execs Seem to Think the Company Doesn't Have Enough Original IP
I think it’s more a case of Sony leaning heavily upon tried and tested IP. I’m really hoping that naughty dog’s next title is a new IP rather than another last of us or remake.
Returnal from housemarque games is a new IP that had a relatively successful launch at the beginning of this generation, although I’m struggling to think of anything else.
Sony aren’t there yet, but they are moving closer to replicating the 360 days of relying upon third party and only releasing sequels to the same big three first party blockbusters.
Re: Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2 (PS5) - Grimdark Shooter Is an Instant Co-Op Classic
Will the operations missions have matchmaking when the game launches?
Re: Reaction: PlayStation Needs to Take a Long, Hard Look at Itself
Sony are really all over the place this generation.
The ps5 console hardware is a huge success and dominating pretty much every market, but then you have psvr2 which seems to just be on life support and feels like it has been abandoned by Sony. Especially true after the announcement and release of a pc adapter that doesn’t even support the headset’s usp - foveated rendering and eye tracking.
Helldivers 2 broke steam records when it launched on ps5 and pc, then concord followed, was closed down within 2 weeks of going on sale and will be remembered as the single biggest flop in video game history.
Returnal 2 was an amazing new IP that launched to critical acclaim from studio housmarque games and was a hugely ambitious follow up to their previous ps4 game resogun. A studio that has managed to exceed expectations and ship an absolute aaa banger. There have also been some well received sequels from insomniac with spider man 2, Santa Monica studios with god of war ragnarok and horizon forbidden west from guerrilla games.
However, Naughty dog, arguably Sony’s flagship studio, have shipped 2 games on ps5. One of these being a remake of a remaster of a ps3 game, and the other being a remaster of a game that thanks to backward compatibility already ran at 60fps on ps5 and still looked pretty much identical to the remaster. They also had their live service game, factions, cancelled. To date, we have absolutely no idea what the studio is working on.
This Sony generation has been a rollercoaster of ups and downs in my opinion.
Re: Failing Manufacturers Are Pushing the Narrative That Consoles Are Dying, Says Ex-Xbox Exec
I bought a pc purely because I wanted a consistent 60fps that didn’t look like I’d smeared Vaseline all over the screen of my tv.
Final fantasy 16 was the console game that convinced me to buy a pc and I haven’t looked back since. Consoles are a great entry point, but outside of Nintendo I currently don’t see any reason for me to buy the next PlayStation or Xbox iteration when I can enjoy better versions of those games on pc (I don’t mind waiting on PlayStation’s pc ports).
I’m looking forward to mh wilds and have zero concerns about performance or visuals thanks to owning a capable pc. The same is true for avowed, a title that won’t have rtx or 60fps on series x at launch.
Re: Failing Manufacturers Are Pushing the Narrative That Consoles Are Dying, Says Ex-Xbox Exec
It’s not that consoles are dying per-se, it’s that the margins on hardware are considerably slimmer and the cost of triple A development considerably higher and more time consuming.
Nintendo have been quite smart, whether by accident or design, by bowing out of the console hardware arms race. In doing so, they have slowed the costs of software development and have been able to focus more on gameplay than pushing 4k textures, ridiculously high poly character models and huge asset stacked open worlds.
The switch has also always been sold at profit and the margins have increased significantly over its lifetime.
Re: Mark Cerny's Feedback on PS5's Astro Bot: 'Now This Is a Game'
@OldGamer999 just curious, but how do you define a triple A? I think Astro bot looks absolutely fantastic if you love platformers, but I’m not sure I’d personally consider this a AAA game.
I think ratchet and clank rift apart looks far more visually impressive from a technical level while Astro bot definitely looks like it could run on a ps4. I’m sure Astro bot will have amazing gameplay, but it doesn’t look like something AAA that had a budget of $100+ million. Which I guess is how I would technically define AAA, and why I would consider rift apart to fall into that AAA category.
Would you consider hi-fi rush a triple AAA title for instance?
Re: Spare a Thought for Secret Level's Concord Episode
@ShogunRok is that the same world where poverty doesn’t exist, there are no wars and hunger isn’t a thing?
Re: PS5, PC FPS Concord's Poor Player Numbers Have Predictably Gone Viral
@Artois2 clearly there’s very few people that “like different things” on pc. In fact it seems there’s several million that like familiar souls-like things in the form of wukong.
Re: PS5, PC FPS Concord's Poor Player Numbers Have Predictably Gone Viral
I feel bad for the developers and those that worked on the game, as if this game fails I’m not sure where that puts the studio.
Having said that, making a live service game is a high risk venture in itself and as other titles have shown, costly to maintain and difficult to sustain engagement. To have any chance of success you need to be beating the current competition in either gameplay, character design or reach. This game does neither.
The gameplay isn’t ground breaking, the characters are forgettable and the title isn’t available on switch, xbox or mobile. It’s also not f2p which further limits its potential audience.
I don’t think anyone is surprised by the fact that this, at least on pc, isn’t ripping up the market.
Re: People Are Already Freaking Out Over Monster Hunter Wilds' PS5 Frame Rate
I think the big issue with 60fps on console is two-fold:
Firstly, how many of the people picking up a title care about high frame rates on console? They’re a mass market machine, and the casual market tends to account for the majority of sales. This casual player base is often the same player base that state they can’t tell the difference between 30 and 60fps.
Secondly, higher frame rates are usually preferred not for the way a game looks, but largely for the responsiveness and feel of that game when playing. When it comes to marketing a game, it’s far more effective to do so with graphical fidelity than with frames per second.
Consoles have always tended to prioritise graphics over frame rate. This priority also seems to get worse the further into a generation we go and the more dated the hardware becomes.
Both ps5 and series x launched with very strong GPU’s (close to the equivalent power of the 2070). But the CPU’s, whilst being an upgrade, would still have been considered something of a bottleneck by pc standards at launch.
I think the biggest issue with game’s not being able to hit 60fps today lies more with the CPU’s of modern consoles than it does the GPU’s.
Re: Capcom Debuts 1 Hour of Raw Monster Hunter Wilds Gameplay on PS5, Looks Outstanding
Is this confirmed to be gameplay running on a ps5 rather than a high end pc? If so, it looks very impressive and makes me feel a lot more confident about its performance on console.
Re: Black Myth: Wukong Becomes Steam's Biggest Ever Single Player Launch
@Logonogo well if you’re playing on a console you’re never going to get absolute perfection from a third party multi-platform title of this scope, especially on dated hardware.
The only games I use my ps5 for are first party titles - they usually have amazing optimisation, look great and have a locked performance mode.
The current consoles balance price with performance and as a result there will be compromises. The only reason a PC can offer better performance is because the hardware can be exponentially more powerful and therefore usually capable of brute forcing less optimised titles.
Re: Black Myth: Wukong Becomes Steam's Biggest Ever Single Player Launch
@Logonogo “absolute perfection” - no one on pc is asking for absolute perfection, having a game that literally pauses when traversing the world or mid-combat is so far from perfection it’s not even close. Having some frame drops is fine, as you say nobody is expecting absolute perfection from a small studio. In fact, if you play pc, you’re very much used to games not having perfect optimisation.
Unreal engine seems to have massive issues with frame stutter on pc. I noticed it a lot when playing lords of the fallen, it’s present in hellblade 2 and in this game, it’s even present in Fortnite epic’s own title.
I find these stutters borderline unplayable - to go from 80+fps to 0fps is incredibly jarring and borderline unplayable for me. Especially when they persist throughout the game. With this issue plaguing pretty much every recent unreal title on pc I’m at the point now where I’d rather devs use any engine other than unreal on pc.
Re: Rumour: Xbox's Indiana Jones Game Coming to PS5 in First Half 2025
@Vaako007 pc gaming currently has 3 major gpu manufacturers - Nvidia, AMD and most recently Intel. Neither of the three have exclusive software and all three offer unique versions of upscaling technology and AI computation.
Some software is sponsored by a particular manufacturer and may offer features unique to that gpu - Nvidia rtx is a relatively prevalent example of that feature set.
Wukong released today - it’s an Nvidia sponsored title with RTX and DLSS technologies. It is not an exclusive title and can still be played on AMD and Intel gpu’s supporting both FSR and XeSS.
The only people to benefit from software exclusivity are corporate shareholders. I’ve never had any issue with PlayStation owners having access to Xbox studio titles - it has absolutely no impact on the enjoyment I gained from playing those titles on Xbox. In regards to multiplayer titles with crossplay it actually benefits Xbox players by virtue of providing a larger player base from which to match. The argument can also be made that a good game has more chance of getting a sequel or continued support the more copies it sells - multiplatform games typically sell more titles than exclusives.
Re: Rumour: Xbox's Indiana Jones Game Coming to PS5 in First Half 2025
The more people that get to enjoy a game the better in my view. Ideally people shouldn’t have to own two sets of very similar hardware just to be able to play certain titles that are restricted to one machine.
I’d hate to have to have an AMD, Intel and Nvidia pc just to be able to play a specific game
I’d happily junk my ps5 if Sony were to release their first party titles day and date on pc. As it is I’m waiting on Spider-Man 2 to either hit pc or become available on ps plus extra. Not sure I’ll be prepared to do the same once naughty dog’s next title hits though