Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

@Splat: Half true. With it being a handheld, Japanese 3rd parties will still support it like they supported the 3DS.

@Octane: Battery life can be fixed by third party attachments I'm sure. We'll convince Alex to tell us lovely people which is the best

@BAMozzy: Save games on the cards are possible, but I do wonder how patches, DLC, or even download-only games will be handled. Let's see whether they have a solution for this or whether it's more of a ''figure it out yourself'' kind of deal. I mean, the Wii U only came with 32GB of internal storage. The result was that I bought all the multiplat indie games on the PS4, and the Nintendo games I have are all physical copies. I'm fine with that, cause to me it doesn't really matter, but that doesn't seem to be a great business strategy.

The same will be true if they aim for that ''secondary console'' market again, which is pretty clear at this point. I doubt I will be buying a lot of multiplat games on the Switch, since I own a PS4 too. Still, it could be important for people that don't own a PS4 or Xbox One. Sales will be lower for those games on the Switch, but I think that as long as porting is relatively easy, it should be able to get most of the games.

Something I absolutely wouldn't mind is more third party collaborations. Games like Bayonetta 2 or Bloodborne. I wish Nintendo would do more of that when their own software schedule falls short.

@TheLZdragon: As in different batteries? Like the Wii U GamePad battery? Maybe, but I just hope that battery life is reasonable from the get-go. When I'm getting it, mine will be hooked up to the TV, so it's not an issue that bothers me personally, but I can see it being a problem if you like to take it on the go a lot.

To succeed, the switch needs third party titles to really gain a foothold on the market. The Wii U proved that. I know Nintendo makes awesome games and that sustains their consoles but at the same time, third party expands the user base a bit beyond Nintendo fans.

If the specs make this harder, then the machine has to sell even more to make third parties interested. As the French would, le circle vicious (I don't speak French).

@Octane: I don't know if it has memory card support or even planning on bringing DLC to its games - Its possible to incorporate the necessary storage space into the cartridge itself. They are no doubt going to be stored on a flash drive essentially so could have extra storage space for patches, DLC and saves.
Porting of 3rd Party games maybe an issue too. If games use 32bit processing as the other consoles, then that would reduce the power available to the Switch making it a LOT less capable by comparison - at 'peak' performance, the X1 is less than a third of the PS4. It only has 256cores compared with 1152cores in the PS4 - even the XB1 has 768 and both also run at higher speeds. Porting doesn't sound like it will be an easy process - but I am not a developer. I think its more likely to be a Platform for mobile games, indie/arcade and ports of old PS3/XB1 games at the moment - I can't see it getting ME4, RE7 or games like that alongside Nintendo's own.

3DS had DLC, so the Switch will. It'll probably support SD cards, which is fine since they go upwards of 128 GB without being too expensive (unless they're Vita cards ).

@TheLZdragon: The 3DS didn't have home console sized patches and DLC though.

Well, I think it's because Switch won't be quite as powerful as a PS4 is, which saves a little cost there. It also probably won't have as big a hard drive and will just rely on SD cards to expand storage (1 terabyte SD should be out soon), and just corners cut here and there like maybe one less USB, no Ethernet port, no disc drive, and the fact it's going to be 3.5 years newer than PS4, and I imagine prices have come down quite a bit. NVidia also may have given them a better deal on chips to position themselves in the home console space, which may have also saved some coin ( although this is pure speculation on my part).

I think the battery life will be fairly short, given the Wii U gamepad and the battery life of the GPD Win which is probably the closest equivalent to Switch I know of. Only that thing has poor cooling and gets super hot. But Nintendo did sell an extended capacity battery for the gamepad for $30 or so, which more than doubled its life (in fact it put it in the ballpark of a Dualshock 4 which is pretty good for powering a screen). I don't think Switch would see as extreme results due to it actually running the games also, but even if it can add 2-3 hours... I'd be happy with that. If it gets around 3-4 hrs already and the extended can bump it up to say... maybe 5-7 hours... I'd happily spend the extra money for it. I don't mind paying, I just hope they offer it as an option to gamers.

@Octane
Storage on the game carts is a possibility, but I think DLC/updates will just store on the system, which can be expanded via SD. I own a 512gb SD in my Wii U which I've had for close to a year now. One of those alone would give it as much space as a standard PS4/X1. And the 1 Terabyte SD should be releasing soon, which is as much as a PS4 Pro comes with, not to mention it would be coupled with whatever internal space the system comes with already. Even if it is just 64gb-128gb, it all adds up. And I imagine games will not have mandatory installs either, which accounts for the vast majority of space on PS4/X1. Granted, people who buy digital will deal with games taking up install space but again, SD expansion up to a terabyte should be possible sometime next year. And most of Nintendo's games won't take up that much space... at least, not like modern megabudget AAA anyways.

i can see Nintendo using the Cartridge for Storage of DLC, Saves, Patches etc. The Cartridges I expect will be no different from a flash drive or memory card in essence - a solid state storage device with its own unique connection to prevent it being used elsewhere. Its not going to have a USB connection for example so people could plug it in to another device and either copy it or change the coding. Just like Memory Cards and Flash Drives, they could easily have enough storage capacity for the game and any additional digital content. It could be partitioned into a read only section (game files) and a write to section for Patches, DLC and saves. It could work just like a memory card, USB or other external storage device meaning that the internal 32GB is kept primarily for the OS and its updates as well as maybe some downloaded digital content.

Games themselves may not be that big by modern standards. They don't have to be built for 4k with HDR support but to a maximum of 1080p and as stated memory card and flash storage can easily match a Bluray for capacity so that shouldn't be an issue.

Its hard to see where additional memory could be plugged in. The top appears to be mostly venting with a game card slot, volume control/power and headphone socket. The sides are designed for slotting in the controllers and bottom - not that I have seen a great picture, appears to contain the slots needed when docked to receive power and output visuals. It seems the only additional memory could come from the Game Card slot itself - in other words you can't have a game plugged in and a memory card. You would have to take out the game card to put in a memory card - which could have downloaded games on it of course.

As I have stated though, I am not currently likely to invest in the Switch. Its not because of the 'power' (or lack of it), I just don't see it getting the use. The last handheld I owned (Nintendo DS) never got used. Its one reason why I never invested in the Vita either. If it does get 3rd Party multi-platform 'new' releases (not ports of PS3 era games), chances are I will buy for PS4 Pro or XB1s as both will look better on my 4k HDR screen and maybe even perform better too. Of course the reason most people here are interested in it, is for the 'exclusives'. The new Zelda looks OK (I do have issues with the art direction but keeping away from visual presentation) but it doesn't appear to have 'Zelda' basics - like digging/hacking etc for rupees, weapons that don't break etc. To me it looks like an indie developed Zelda clone with changes to avoid copywriting. If they changed the lead character slightly and sold it on PS4/XB1's indie/arcade market, I doubt people would bat an eyelid - yes sure they would draw comparisons with Zelda. Even the interactions are very 'old school' text based (another way to keep the file size down and reduce resources). I am not looking for yet another Mario Kart, another 3D Mario (that's just like the old ones with maybe 1 new addition/costume/gimmick), yet another 2D Mario Bro's game, more Pokemon (I can't stand Pokemon!) or other 'gameboy' classic that's tarted up for the Switch. I loved these on the N64 20+ years ago but by the Wii, I had had enough. Yes the Mario Galaxy games were good, yes Mario Kart was fun with the family, yes Super Mario Bros Deluxe was very nostalgic but maybe its my age, I felt I had outgrown these and wanted 'more' from my games. I don't game on the move so the only appeal will have to be software so the Switch would have to offer more than just a few games I want to warrant purchasing. It would need to appeal to Adults and I don't mean from a nostalgic point of view.

@JaxonH: 500GB SD cards are expensive though, don't even want to think about how expensive 1TB SD is going to be. As for the Switch itself, rumours said 32GB of internal memory. The retail version may get 64GB, but I don't think it'll come with 128. I'm not sure how much of a hassle HDD support would be for docked mode. That could be a cheaper alternative.

For Nintendo it's easier to install patches and DLC on the card itself. Nintendo games get rarely DLC and if there's a patch, it's usually just one and often a small one. Game sizes are pretty small too. However, something like The Witcher 3 is easily 50GB+ on PS4 vs 1.8GB for Splatoon. I'm curious to see how stuff like that's going to work out.

@Octane:
Ya they're a little pricy, but not unreasonable.

I got my 512gb for $79.99. Which, compared to 64gb Vita memory cards for the same price, is not unreasonable at all. Hard drives are cheaper, but portability comes at a cost.

@Octane: An external HDD type system for the 'dock' seems possible. It would require a USB connection and some form of connectivity through the dock connection (along with the power in and video out) to the Switch but its unlikely to be able to be connected directly to the Handheld portion itself. In the released images so far, we have only seen to connections to the dock - the power lead and HDMI to TV. We have seen a the back, the sides and the top of the 'Switch' but not a clear view of the bottom. It could of course have a memory card slot at the bottom but it doesn't appear to have anyway of expanding its memory anywhere else. There was a rumour stating that the Switch will use MicroSD Cards upto 128GB and as these are tiny, it could have a slot in the bottom for this or underneath the kickstand.

Memory though is relative. The 500GB of the PS4 seemed very small when games were 40+GB in size - meaning you could only have 10-12 games. They also all needed to be installed onto the HDD too. Switch games from cartridges won't need installing and if games are only 2-3GB, assuming the OS uses some of that 32GB, you could still install 10-12 games on this too.

I do think though that if we look at the Switch as a 'Console', its specs in every area seem very low - 4GB RAM - half that of the current consoles and only 25.6GB/s, CPU effectively running at 1ghz and has 4cores (I believe) - the PS4 is the lowest of the others at 1.6ghz and also has 8cores. 256core GPU - the XB1 has 768cores. GPU clock speeds - the PS4 is again the lowest at 800mhz but the Switch is only 768mhz docked or 307.2mhz when undocked (at 40% of docked). HDD size is 32GB compared to 500GB of both the XB1 and PS4. The term 'underpowered' has been directed at both the PS4 and XB1 since they launched 3years ago so the Switch appears to be very 'weak' by modern standards.

However if we look at it as a handheld and compare it with similar sized devices - including the 3DS and Vita, its actually on a par with most tablets and a lot more powerful than the other handhelds from Nintendo and Sony. Its RAM is double that of the WiiU and docked, has a more powerful GPU too. I wouldn't be surprised if the CPU is more capable as well. Undocked though, it seems that the 'raw' potential of the GPU alone is unlikely to match up to the WiiU but its also only having to produce 720p res for a 6.2" screen - meaning it could also scale back a lot of finer detail that wouldn't be noticeable on something so small. The extra RAM and CPU speed could also be used to create a smoother game experience creating the impression that its 'better' than the WiiU.

Like I said, I believe it would be better to market this as a handheld primarily. I know that would put it in direct competition with Nintendo's own very popular 3DS but it would also take it out of the comparison with both Sony and Microsoft and their consoles. Both Sony and MS have announced and/or released even more powerful consoles than their 3yr old consoles. The PS4 Pro looks like it will be at least 8x as powerful and the Scorpio at least 12x - both of which with much faster CPU's, GPU's and much higher RAM and Bandwidth too. Within 6-9months of the Switch releasing, both of these will be on the market. Analysts (as well as my own belief that I have stated many times) predict that the PS5 could arrive by Q42018 which I fully expect to be even more powerful than the Scorpio. All these consoles are designed with 4k (and HDR) TV's in mind. I doubt that the Switch will be able to deliver 1080p consistently - well not with the multi-platform releases as we know the XB1 (which is more powerful than the Switch) can't manage to do this with quite a few multi-platform releases. 4k TV sales are certainly higher than sales of 1080p TV's and likely to be in the majority of peoples homes within the next few years. Its like releasing a SD (CRT compatible) console just as HD TV's were gaining momentum. By marketing it as a console first and foremost though, it will no doubt be compared with the other consoles its competing with.

Of course 'resolution' isn't everything - it does play a part though - how many here upgraded to the Pro for the 'better' visuals? Power again isn't always indicative of the type of experience you can have. The switch is way more powerful than the N64 and that gave us some of the greatest games in history - SM64, Zelda, Goldeneye - all crop in the best games of all time lists. Minecraft to is one of the 'worst' looking games yet its more popular than the Order which was one of the best looking games. First impressions do count and most of our first experience is through video's and/or screenshots. This generation has already had a few games criticised for visual downgrading from their initial reveals. A great looking game can create interest before release - obviously game-play will determine its success - but how many times do you see comments about how a game looks during E3? How often can you audibly here the crowd gasp at the graphics?

Power may not be 'important' in that having a bit more or less isn't going to radically change the overall experience. However if its the difference between a solid 60fps and an unlocked 30fps with screen tear, pop-in, much lower quality visual settings - even if the resolution is the same, People will definitely notice. Power can affect the overall experience in a lot of ways - not just resolution - things like visual (shadows, lighting, particle effects etc), frames per second (both of these have been seen with the PS4 Pro as games like Rise of the Tomb Raider, Shadow of Mordoor and Paragon all have enhanced visuals at the same 1080p resolution and some games like RoTR, Infamous have higher frame rate options due to the extra power), AI and enemy count, draw distances, polygon count, environmental effects - like weather (wind, rain etc and their impact on the environment and we know how Fog hit games like Fallout 4 and Witcher 3), water (running through puddles and the splash/ripple) etc etc. Nintendo of course can create more 'cartoon' style visuals that eliminate most of these but I doubt we will see something like Uncharted 4's visual presentation (not just resolution but all the technical too) on the Switch - certainly not at 1080p anyway.

Which again brings me full circle back to game size and storage capacity. If games are more 'basic' from a visual standpoint, that can also keep file sizes down. The lack of vocal dialogue too will also keep sizes down as they won't need to put so much 'audio' in. Skyrim's file size in Europe was much larger than the US version because of all the different language versions of the audio. By simplifying these aspects, not only is it keeping file sizes lower, its also putting less demands on the system and should help the game-play as it won't 'bottleneck' trying to keep up with the demands of drawing a highly detailed screen with lots of action having to be calculated too.

Time will tell of course but I still think Nintendo would be better off trying to put it up against other mobile devices with the added bonuses of playing it as a console too and as a replacement for the 3DS and WiiU rather than pitching it up against Sony and Microsofts consoles.

I do wonder why some games have to be as massive as possible when Nintendo offers games for very minimal space

@TheLZdragon: Its called evolution and progression. Screen resolutions have increased, the amount of colours and polygons increased, the amount of speech has increased, AI has improved as have the animations. Just bumping up resolution itself may not increase the size of a game - just the workload of the GPU but then you add in higher quality textures, lighting maps that not only affect how objects are illuminated but the shadows they cast and how all of these interact - for example casting a shadow on a 3D object and how it wraps around these to keep the 3 Dimensional shape properly, how particles also interact with 3D objects in a 2D plane (as TV's are 2D) to create the illusions of depth - or you could end up with some odd looking perspectives etc. Rocksteady stated that the Batmobile itself had more polygon's than the whole of Arkham City to create that detailed 3D object. Not only was it more complex than a whole City in terms of building it, they also had to give it a number of different characteristics to create the illusion of different materials in its construction. Different reflective qualities for example. Mirrors and other totally reflective surfaces create their own complexity as they need to reflect the environment quite accurately so these have to be mapped too or else it could look 'off' all these things, these 'rules' need to be built into the game which increases its size. Cut out dialogue or at least reduce it down significantly and you can cut down a lot of the Audio size in a game - especially if you don't need multiple language recordings. Lowering or reducing the textures - so all grass or rocks looks the same - also cuts back on file size- this also can affect things like clothing too. Cartoon style art tends to use colour blocking rather than textures. By that I mean filling in the black lines by a colour rather than applying a material style texture and applying a 'colour' to that texture. Marios trousers for example are just Blue but in something like Uncharted, these would have a 'denim' texture. That doesn't mean that lighting can't be used to create 3D with either but it's not like Mario has to have a 'reflective' index and multiple 'fabric' textures for silk/satin, leather, suede, velvet, fine cotton, fur etc etc as well as their own dynamic motion to react with wind/rain etc. Rain in Nintendo games tend to be an impression - simulated rain fall by streaks/drops moving in a uniform direction downwards but they don't create puddles or change the appearance of the character or their clothes or really have any environmental impact. All of this also increases the file sizes. When Drake drives the Jeep in U4, it reacts to the surface you are on and mud builds up or gets washed away as well as the mirrors reflect the environment, the aerial and gas can (as well as the occupants) react to the terrain. Going through water also has 'depth' - by that I mean how 'deep' the water appears - all the coding to programme in these 'rules' takes up space. Limiting the animations, the cut scenes etc also cuts down on space.

@TheLZdragon: There are enough games on PSN that are less than a gigabyte in size of course. Smaller games are in no way unique to Nintendo's system. It's more just that Nintendo systems just lacks the bigger and technically complex games that are available on PlayStation and Xbox.

I'd like to buy it on day one, which I probably will because I enjoy nintendo systems just like I enjoy the Playstation systems, but I'm very weary at nintendo anymore. The Wii U was just plain horrible (ready for the puns and busts) and I counted it as the worst nintendo system ever...could it have been better, 'yes', but the lack of support and even the feel that nintendo themselves seemed to rush their own games on it (not much depth or power as their previous console titles), just made me get rid of it...plus the E-Shop titles seemed to be more shovel ware then anything else, and the virtual console section of it seemed to be a mess...then there was getting charged for tax, which I hated (as Sony and Microsoft don't do that), where a $20 card can't get you two $10 games. I don't care about the space the system has, as long as you can buy more space at a reasonable price (not like VITA or even the PS4, where you can only get as high as a 2TB Internal Drive), and as long as the virtual console section of the store has all the games from the Wii and Wii U era, without having to wait for them to arrive again. If nintendo can fix everything that went wrong with the 'P' U (see the pun I did there) and keep the third parties on board with them (instead of watching them all leave and not even try to bring them back), then they can win back the hearts of 'ALL' of their fans...I'm already expecting many Wii U owners are upset about how all of their games are being cancelled for the Wii U and the online support is going to be next for it. The Wii, even though it wasn't that powerful, added a bunch of fun elements to it (everybody votes and check mii out, though cheap, were fun to do), as as long as we don't have to purchase a ton of extra controllers and accessories to fully enjoy the experience (Balance Board, Zapper Gun....didn't last too long, Extra Nunchucks, Classic Controllers, Motion Plus Adaptors, Remotes and everything else...got pretty pricey just to play a game with friends), nintendo can win...but I do agree that they should count this as a 'portable' instead of a console. I think many people are already fearing that the 3DS will be 'dead in the water' by next holiday (as long as the Switch sells well). I think they're just not counting it as a portable, in case it doesn't sell well. If it sells well and becomes a hit, nintendo will can the 3DS, if it doesn't, they have the 3DS to fall back on and upgrade their portable to new heights...I think that's their main focus!!!!

Have they said anything about trophies/achievements? It's not a deal breaker or anything but would be nice for me.

Looking forward to getting some real info instead of rumors. If it's priced right and Zelda is indeed a launch title I will more then likely get a Switch.

The Nintendo Switch presentation will soon be upon us!

Here are the times/dates for when it kicks off:

Thursday 12th:

20:00 PT
23:00 ET

Friday 13th:

04:00 GMT
05:00 CET

Any UK people staying up to watch? (I'm not, just curious!)