@karmamule Yep when I played again last time they made me do some intro bit on Earth but it seemed to be a few expansions out of date and didn't really tell me the story at all.
At the very least they need a "previously on Destiny 2" video when each expansion releases, but I think the story is too convoluted now.
Destiny 3 would be a great reset and maybe allow them to upgrade the engine or whatever to avoid vaulting content in the future - but if it's true they've not started on it yet I've no idea what they're playing at...
The biggest issue I see with Bungie is Destiny 2 is their biggest money spinner, but it's completely inaccessible to new or lapsed players.
I played it a lot at launch, finally got back into it for the Forsaken DLC but struggled even by then as content I'd paid for and loved was gone.
I then tried it again after the next-gen updates, and it's completely beyond me now - there doesn't seem to be a quick way to catch up on the story, and the main areas I remember are all gone, even one that was added in Forsaken (that I paid for!).
With no way to easily bring on new or lapsed players, Bungie runs the risk of their player base slowly but surely lapsing and then not coming back.
The obvious answer is Destiny 3 so everyone can start again with a new story and new players welcome, but apparently that's not even in development according to the leaks?!
If D3 isn't in development that feels like it's risking the studio's future - if Marathon doesn't land well and D2 keeps losing players, it could take till 2030 to create Destiny 3 by which time D2 might not be making enough money to keep the studio alive...
@Nepp67 Yes but the quote you've just pointed out says after release on PS5 and PC, they'll look at an Xbox release.
And that's from March - so they've known they weren't planning on working on the Xbox release till after the other two were out, as they wanted to concentrate on PS5 and PC first
They'd already cancelled the Xbox version so WTF are they on about?
Edit: found the article where they reinstated it - does suggest it was lowest priority though which might explain why the certification is maybe more last minute than for PS?
@Maaster89 Yep I got World Cup 98 as one of my first PlayStation games, I played it so much for years - Chumbawumba Tubthumping and that bass-heavy music-only song are both burned into my brain as the menu music.
Also I wasn't yet a teenager the swearing in Tubthumping somehow made it feel grown up (despite GTA being in my collection lol)
@Anthony_Daniels In the UK if you're using a ChromeCast, it's often 2nd or 3rd in the list of entertainment apps, just behind Disney Plus and usually ahead of Prime Video, Apple TV and Netflix (although I guess many of those are used on non-Android devices).
I wouldn't be surprised if Sony have an eye on Paramount Plus - an established streaming service they could add Sony movies and TV shows to, promote on PlayStation and perhaps offer a combination sub with Crunchyroll might be of interest to them...
@Kraaatos I guess it could allow PlayStation to make Star Trek, Mission Impossible or Nickelodeon games without the licensing costs...
(Having looked at their list of franchises it appears most may be owned by others, Addams Family was only the 90s films, Godfather might still be the Puzo estate or the Coppolas etc.)
Weirdly I must have been a better gamer than I thought, as I remember Driver being a pain sometimes but I got past the tutorial easily enough.
Think part of it though is as a kid spending that much on a game you were determined to get past it - and you had the time to get better (plus I loved driving games in general, TOCA was my favourite).
Nowadays I'm on easy mode and quit games that annoy me - I don't get much time to game and I want to de-stress not get more annoyed lol.
But I remember Driver really being worth it - I was staggered what they achieved on PS1 given we had to wait till the PS2 for GTA3
Lake is great if you want a chilled out game - deliver parcels and letters, listen to the radio, drive around a really pretty setting and make Meredith's life choices.
Was one of my stand out games of last year, just sweet and relaxing
@Americansamurai1 They'd have to leverage themselves to the hilt, and it'd be a massive gamble - if GTA6 lost the magic or that GTA rival Everywhere or whatever it's called did better, they'd be unable to service the debt.
He practically tried to snuff out the Xbox One - Microsoft did a pretty good job of nearly killing it themselves at the start but later in the generation despite Playstation's huge lead where he continued to press with FF exclusives, exclusive modes, characters and missions in games and refusing cross play etc.
Finally Xbox's daddy decided it was time to put up or shut up, and Jim starts crying foul.
Sorry but I want competition between the console platforms as that's best for everyone - Sony ruling the roost made them complacent and able to do things like £70 games and other nickle and diming, Jim's just upset as it might affect his bonus
@Ryall Not really - wattage has little relation to heat, as a more efficient smaller power supply can be more concentrated so actually generate more heat.
Also a less powerful power supply may be a concern when you're pushing the limits of the PS5's power - so yet another reason with the cooling that I'm slightly wary of this upgrade.
I'd rather have the overengineered original cooling system if I'm playing a later game like Wolverine - we all remember how much the PS4 Pro sounded like a jet engine when playing the last few PS4 releases...
@Northern_munkey Think my point at least is if I'm paying 30 quid more than my partner (and this is 2 years in where PC has moved on a whole generation or 2 in graphics tech while Valve are doing great things with the Steam Deck) if it then overheats playing Wolverine or Spider Man 2 but the launch one doesn't I'll be fuming.
I'd be done with Sony at that point - already feel cheated by the cheap late gen controllers they skimped on
@kyleforrester87 On occasion though the quality has definitely been affected.
I can look at my first couple of PS4 controllers (one with the console, one bought with it) and they're a dark, shinier higher-quality plastic.
The later ones I've got are a dark grey almost-black that's more matte, and the sticks are more grey than black and I don't find the build quality as good.
But according to the barcode and model number, they're identical (I've not checked if there's some minor version number somewhere that probably is different) - and when buying online they often still had the old picture, I even returned the first one thinking they'd sent me the wrong model.
So while if Sony use this new cooling system to make a smaller PS5 (which I'd really prefer) I might give them the benefit of the doubt on it, if I'm going to have to get a big one I'd rather know what the difference is than trust them like I did with my controllers (and got burnt)...
@Bizzy Good shout, for long distances I've often gone for a slightly more expensive shielded cable just in case it runs too close to an electro-magnetic source.
Static IPs could be a shout too.
Pretty glad at the moment I've more networked devices than ever before but they all seem to be behaving (I've jinxed it now!) - university I used to get it in the neck from housemates if we got lag while gaming, and spent way too many days playing with router settings so it's nice to find someone else who knows the pain of playing with those settings
@Shepherd_Tallon I think it's a fair point that it's might be about decreasing losses if they've moved back into a loss per unit - although with Jim Ryan that could just as easily mean "we started to make less profit per unit".
I just really wish Sony would be upfront about it - if I'm buying a later model, I want to know what's improved, what's maybe a little bit cheaper / less cool, how well tested it was and if they plan on another version really soon.
And be honest about the need for the redesigns, particularly when it's just gone up £30 here and 50 Euros in our neighbours.
Some of the refreshes can be fine - the 1TB PS4 for example I ended up picking up and it's still going strong - while the later PS4 controllers seemed cheaper plastic than my original one and don't match (which drives me nuts). I just wish Sony would actually communicate!
@riceNpea Ah if you find it seems to move in the port, I on occasion have used electrical tape to force a cable into a particular position in the port so it maintains connectivity :S
Really bad if you're forced into it, fingers crossed stock is better soon so could at least get a replacement PS5 or get it repaired depending if go via home insurance or Sony support...
@riceNpea Ignore my query about cordless phones / microwaves then as they're more a Wifi issue.
How does the cable run to the router, do you use Powerline adaptors or have a long one going all the way to it? And does anyone else in the house get internet disconnections?
If direct to the router and no one else gets them, I'd maybe try a different port on the router and maybe a new cable if it's a bit frayed / loose at the ends. If tried those and only the PS5 has the issue, I'd maybe try the latest firmware and contact Sony support if that doesn't help unfortunately
@riceNpea No problem, when building a PC for use on the TV I wanted to try and avoid a fan (but also didn't want to go water cooling as if I screwed up there's just way too many electronics in the living room that could drown) I got way too deep into cooling solutions and technology so I'm quite intrigued by the pictures in the article.
Coil whine is a nightmare, short of taking the covers off and checking nothing is in the fan area there's not much you can do either.
I only mention checking the fan area because I've had a metal shaving from manufacture, a simple crumb and an overhanging cable from an expensive power unit (that wasn't as tightly packed as it should have been!) cause me whine-type noises over the years as once up to speed they create high-pitched noise - short of that though sadly there's not much to be done.
Internet wise, are you plugged into your router with a cable or are you using the Wifi? And do you have any of these devices in a 10 metre radius - microwave, cordless landline telephone or weirdly a fridge or freezer?
@riceNpea Sorry, it's more frustration that I'm affected by the price rise and redesigns, and I've seen you in many threads asking this question or defending Sony on these particular points.
As a direct answer, you see the big fins in the first design? They're often made from aluminium or other metals (particularly if need higher thermal conduction) that are reasonably costly for such density and quality.
The first and second clearly use the same metal, the third may use a higher thermal one - but even then it's so much smaller there's no metal around that could compensate for such loss of surface area.
In terms of better R&D etc. - there's not been any massive strides in cooling in the last 2 years that could explain such a significant reduction in the cooling unit size.
Instead I suspect a minor change in material that is a better conductor so they could shrink the slightly hideous second design - but even if it was one of the best conductors around I don't see how it ends up more expensive or better at cooling than the launch unit.
Sony (and their fans like Digital Foundry) will argue it still cools current games more than enough and is a bit more efficient as the cooling solution was overdesigned - but I'd argue I want the overdesigned version when I'm playing on an overclocked GPU and playing games later in this generation that give the PS5 a workout.
So for me it looks like short of stealing my partner's launch edition, I'm going to have to wait for a Slim or Pro version...
My partner has a launch day PS5, while I've held off and got the XSX as the exclusives I like (Spider Man, Ghost of Tsushima) are on the PS4 too and perform well enough.
I always get both Xbox and PlayStation every generation, and this is the longest I've gone in a generation without picking up the second console - normally the price has started to come down or has a shrunk / Pro version on the horizon (I'm cursed to always buy just before the Pro is announced!).
But this design has me concerned - it's plainly obvious there are way less cooling fins in the newer units, even if the ventilation unit looks a bit bigger.
That's a worry as it suggests the fan may have to go higher for games later in the generation that really tax the PS5 - as the fins in particular are important for cooling (just look up fanless CPU coolers for PCs).
Given the higher clocked GPU I think I'm going to hold off until these newer units have had some chonky games thrown at them - otherwise I might wait for a Pro or Slim version (I could accept a Slim making more noise for example as a trade off to get rid of the huge size - not sure we can fit two in the house!).
@riceNpea FFS they wouldn't be using the parts if they were more expensive, I can guarantee you that.
A lot of the parts are made of minerals and materials that are pretty expensive in themselves - so purely in the reduction in weight and size of some of these parts (particularly the motherboard and cooling) you'd often find a decent saving.
Xbox - each year now do a FIFA Series S bundle for £249.
Also Xbox - we have a Game Pass app on Samsung TVs, ChromeCast / Android TV and on phones where you can play console games for a small monthly fee.
Also Xbox - we have All Access for £28.99 a month (XSX) for 2 years with Game Pass Ultimate, and it costs less than if you bought the console and a monthly GPU sub for 2 years and includes Day One games (which are £50/55 otherwise).
Also Xbox - use our Rewards program and we'll give you anywhere between £5 and £15 a month (or even more) in points - and you can use it to pay for Game Pass too.
PlayStation - we have a £389 or £479 console, PS Plus is available and some tiers include old games - our brand new games are £70.
Also PlayStation - we have a Rewards program, it'll give you some unique items.
Can anyone else see the value disparity? Sony need to be keeping in mind the competition and bring their A game, not be putting prices up all the time!
@eshy76 Yep so I'm sure we're both agreed, let's really hope Xbox knock it out of the park this generation.
As Sony clearly need strong competition to force them to be nicer to their customers.
And this whole "gaming is a luxury", "it's a competitive market" - yep it is, I've got an XSX and Game Pass (and the ridiculously lucrative Microsoft Rewards) and I've played hundreds of games including numerous AAA releases and spent £28.99 a month (2 years All Access for the XSX + GP Ultimate) and maybe a hundred or so (as I've had like £250 in Rewards vouchers in that time).
I normally get the "other" console in a generation too so I can catch up on their stuff, but this time I've been holding out longer than any previous one because the costs are just insane by comparison - I have to buy PS5 games for my partner's birthday / Christmas presents and honestly I'm so glad when it's not a Sony game as they seem to be the primary £70 ones.
If someone like me who always gets both is seriously considering waiting years or not bothering at all, and parents can walk into Tesco and leave with a Series S and FIFA 23 (when it releases) together for £250, I'm seriously thinking the demand will start to cool fast for the PS5 if Sony carry on like this...
@eshy76 Yes but not doing it in the US shows they're not doing it in countries where Xbox is putting up strong competition - so they're basically screwing their loyal markets.
As the US is probably also the biggest market, even a $10 increase there would help a lot - which suggests they're just doing it because they can, whereas in the US they can't risk Xbox gaining a majority market share.
They could just have easily bundled a first party game in for the price rise, or increased accessory costs - there are other ways than this which might reduce the amount of future PS Plus users and game buyers that Sony can tap into...
@UltimateOtaku91 That's not a great argument - "everyone has less money than ever to buy our console so let's put the price up!".
And unlike fish and chips where when it's gone it's gone, Sony then have you playing on their console - where you will need to buy games, accessories, PS Plus etc.
@spcspc The issue there is the numbers God of War or Final Fantasy do are nowhere near in the same league as CoD, FIFA, GTA, Minecraft or Fortnite.
So it's much more likely a kid wants a console for casual games just like many casual gamers - they're not really the target market for much of Sony's output anyway (I think only Spider Man doesn't have a high age rating).
So yes there is very much a risk they don't go PlayStation and their future spending isn't in Sony's pocket.
Add the fact they didn't up the US price, and it's really not a good look and it is one that might backfire
@spcspc Oculus price increase was incredibly dumb too, really going to stop the user base expanding with a big rival launching soon (PSVR2) and Meta supposedly thinking VR is their big ticket.
50 euros is enough to change the calculation - you can get an XSX for 50 less now and then have a 3 month Game Pass trial that gives you loads to play, while for the PS5 you've still got to buy games (as the new PS Plus really isn't being well advertised in stores at the moment).
You're talking fanboys will still want it - for parents or casuals, they might just look and go "Xbox can still play CoD and FIFA, screw it", and you've then lost customers who would be spending money on much more profitable items in your closed ecosystem
@spcspc Yes but if even 1% fewer people buy one because of it, and they in a year would have spent a hundred euros or more on PS Plus, first-party games and accessories then it would likely cancel itself out.
It may very well not impact sales (although some parents are going to end up looking closer at the Series S given the price disparity now), but if it does then given this is the item that gets users into your ecosystem - putting the price up is just bad optics and generates bad feelings.
There's just so many better ways to do this - bundles with games, models with the expanded SSD already installed etc.
@jrt87 But it's stupidly bad optics going into a cost of living crisis (and likely recession), and it's really not needed.
A few million on consoles is nothing to Sony - they make it all back from the high margins on PS Plus, accessories and games. Raising the cost of entry to a walled garden where you make money on everything they buy after the console (which they will, to justify the purchase and actually use it) is just bad business...
Why not just do more bundles rather than this? It's going to just annoy people who've not been able to get one yet, particularly in Europe (that 50 Euros rise is insane).
@eshy76 But if you buy their console, you're locked into their ecosystem so they get your money from PS Plus, 30% on games, 100% on their own games and accessories...
Why put up the price of entry?! That's the one thing you want consumers to buy so they then buy the rest of the stuff that has much higher margins!
Think Sony are the target because Playstation is the biggest console brand in the UK that is known to have significant digital sales.
There's also one important get out for Xbox and Nintendo - they allow digital titles to be sold by places like CDKeys, Amazon, Instant Gaming or Fanatical (so can compete on price) while Sony only allow PSN vouchers to be sold.
That wasn't always the case - I used to get PSN games from CDKeys and Amazon but Sony stopped it a while back...
EDIT: Scratch that, for EU and UK they seem to be allowing them again in the last year
It's really strange as I remember playing the first CoD - I'd just played Medal of Honour which was great, and then CoD was just another level above that.
Then CoD 2 I used to play local multiplayer with my uni housemates and was a blast - but it wasn't until CoD4 (MW) and seeing my brothers blasting away on it did I began to think it was a major franchise.
But even then I never thought it would reach the levels it has now (where with GTA and FIFA it's reaches "casual" gamers), where it's supposedly become a lynchpin in the console wars...
Square Enix says the transaction (which was only $300 million) "enables the launch of new businesses by moving forward with investments in fields including blockchain, AI, and the cloud."
@K1LLEGAL Returnal is almost a year old now - the issue is if they don't bring their games that are over a year old to the service it loses value.
If it's mostly third party games or first party only stay a few months it doesn't encourage people to stay subscribed or choose it over Game Pass - and it's much cheaper for Sony to put older first party games on it over newer third party ones
@Ralizah Agreed - that's the big Game Pass thing for new console owners (or their parents), it gives you a big library straightaway without huge additional expense.
This needs to have older Sony games on it permanently so those joining PlayStation have a great library to start with - and it'll make them more likely to buy new first party games day one
@PhhhCough That's another big question - if they don't make it the PS5 version for PS5 owners (and for those using streaming) then it's another kick in the teeth for "next gen" owners.
Fingers crossed they've finally realised they need to reward those who've spent the money on their new console, not force them to buy it to get the best version...
@BritneyfR_ee I'd hope the monthly ones don't change, but it's the headline games for the other tiers that are more a worry.
Most big games added to Now - particularly first party ones - often only stay for like 3 months, which means Returnal, Miles Morales and the others could join in June and be gone by September which doesn't give much time to play them...
Comments 79
Re: Sony Pulled Bungie's Head Out of Its Ass, and an Ex-Lawyer Reckons That Was a Good Thing
@karmamule Yep when I played again last time they made me do some intro bit on Earth but it seemed to be a few expansions out of date and didn't really tell me the story at all.
At the very least they need a "previously on Destiny 2" video when each expansion releases, but I think the story is too convoluted now.
Destiny 3 would be a great reset and maybe allow them to upgrade the engine or whatever to avoid vaulting content in the future - but if it's true they've not started on it yet I've no idea what they're playing at...
Re: Sony Pulled Bungie's Head Out of Its Ass, and an Ex-Lawyer Reckons That Was a Good Thing
The biggest issue I see with Bungie is Destiny 2 is their biggest money spinner, but it's completely inaccessible to new or lapsed players.
I played it a lot at launch, finally got back into it for the Forsaken DLC but struggled even by then as content I'd paid for and loved was gone.
I then tried it again after the next-gen updates, and it's completely beyond me now - there doesn't seem to be a quick way to catch up on the story, and the main areas I remember are all gone, even one that was added in Forsaken (that I paid for!).
With no way to easily bring on new or lapsed players, Bungie runs the risk of their player base slowly but surely lapsing and then not coming back.
The obvious answer is Destiny 3 so everyone can start again with a new story and new players welcome, but apparently that's not even in development according to the leaks?!
If D3 isn't in development that feels like it's risking the studio's future - if Marathon doesn't land well and D2 keeps losing players, it could take till 2030 to create Destiny 3 by which time D2 might not be making enough money to keep the studio alive...
Re: Just Like Black Myth: Wukong, PS5 Action RPG Enotria Is Delayed Indefinitely on Xbox
@Nepp67 Yes but the quote you've just pointed out says after release on PS5 and PC, they'll look at an Xbox release.
And that's from March - so they've known they weren't planning on working on the Xbox release till after the other two were out, as they wanted to concentrate on PS5 and PC first
Re: Just Like Black Myth: Wukong, PS5 Action RPG Enotria Is Delayed Indefinitely on Xbox
https://www.gematsu.com/2024/03/enotria-the-last-song-launches-august-21-xbox-series-version-no-longer-planned
They'd already cancelled the Xbox version so WTF are they on about?
Edit: found the article where they reinstated it - does suggest it was lowest priority though which might explain why the certification is maybe more last minute than for PS?
https://www.gematsu.com/2024/05/enotria-the-last-song-delayed-to-september-19-restores-xbox-series-version-ps5-and-pc-demo-launches-may-22
Re: FC 24's Free Euro 2024 Update Kicks Off This Week
@Maaster89 Yep I got World Cup 98 as one of my first PlayStation games, I played it so much for years - Chumbawumba Tubthumping and that bass-heavy music-only song are both burned into my brain as the menu music.
Also I wasn't yet a teenager the swearing in Tubthumping somehow made it feel grown up (despite GTA being in my collection lol)
Re: Sony Reportedly in Talks to Team Up for Paramount Bid
@Anthony_Daniels In the UK if you're using a ChromeCast, it's often 2nd or 3rd in the list of entertainment apps, just behind Disney Plus and usually ahead of Prime Video, Apple TV and Netflix (although I guess many of those are used on non-Android devices).
I wouldn't be surprised if Sony have an eye on Paramount Plus - an established streaming service they could add Sony movies and TV shows to, promote on PlayStation and perhaps offer a combination sub with Crunchyroll might be of interest to them...
Re: Sony Reportedly in Talks to Team Up for Paramount Bid
@Kraaatos I guess it could allow PlayStation to make Star Trek, Mission Impossible or Nickelodeon games without the licensing costs...
(Having looked at their list of franchises it appears most may be owned by others, Addams Family was only the 90s films, Godfather might still be the Puzo estate or the Coppolas etc.)
Re: Huge PS Plus Clearout Confirmed for May, 25 Games Leaving
The Artful Escape and Last Stop are both excellent games, well worth giving a go as neither takes ages
Re: Random: The Brutal PS1 Driver Intro Even Bested F1 Pro Lewis Hamilton
Weirdly I must have been a better gamer than I thought, as I remember Driver being a pain sometimes but I got past the tutorial easily enough.
Think part of it though is as a kid spending that much on a game you were determined to get past it - and you had the time to get better (plus I loved driving games in general, TOCA was my favourite).
Nowadays I'm on easy mode and quit games that annoy me - I don't get much time to game and I want to de-stress not get more annoyed lol.
But I remember Driver really being worth it - I was staggered what they achieved on PS1 given we had to wait till the PS2 for GTA3
Re: PS Plus Extra Loses Another 10 PS4 Games Next Month
@AK4tywill Yeah it's quite short and the story small and family based, so think it plays more to her strengths. Enjoy
Re: PS Plus Extra Loses Another 10 PS4 Games Next Month
@Gaia093 Lost Words is written by Terry Pratchett's daughter Rhianna, it's a really touching story and a sweet little game, definitely recommend it
Re: 23 Games Hit PS Plus Extra, Premium Next Week in Big Update
Lake is great if you want a chilled out game - deliver parcels and letters, listen to the radio, drive around a really pretty setting and make Meredith's life choices.
Was one of my stand out games of last year, just sweet and relaxing
Re: Microsoft Dealt Major Blow as UK Blocks Activision Buyout
It can be fought to some degree, although it will delay the deal:
https://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/status/1651184442776469505
Re: UK Regulator No Longer Concerned About Activision Buyout's Impact on Console Competition
@Americansamurai1 They'd have to leverage themselves to the hilt, and it'd be a massive gamble - if GTA6 lost the magic or that GTA rival Everywhere or whatever it's called did better, they'd be unable to service the debt.
Square is a much more likely prospect.
Re: UK Regulator No Longer Concerned About Activision Buyout's Impact on Console Competition
@Snake_V5 FTC have lost the cases they recently took to court, and Microsoft have said they'll fight it in court.
So unlikely they'll do much beyond behavioural remedies...
Re: UK Regulator No Longer Concerned About Activision Buyout's Impact on Console Competition
@atb_93 Not necessarily on the "needs to rise due to the purchase price" thing.
They've now gone from having 69 billion in cash, which was losing value due to inflation, to having a 69 billion asset on the books.
The money doesn't have to be paid back - it's already got them an asset.
Re: Microsoft Thinks It Hasn't 'Pulled Any Games' from PS5, PS4
@awaltzforvenus Think it may finally be reaching an end soon, thankfully for all of us fed up of the drama:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-narrows-scope-of-concerns-in-microsoft-activision-review
CMA looks like it's going to approve as it's no longer concerned about console gaming only cloud
Re: PS5 Shipments Reach 25 Million, But Still Well Short of Yearly Target
@sanderson72 Argos in the UK has stock of all PS5 bundles
Re: PlayStation Bites Back At 'Inadequate' Call of Duty Offer from Microsoft
@Rafie Yep a publisher or developer confirmed it, and the Resident Evil: Village marketing contract leaked as part of the Capcom hack
Re: PlayStation Bites Back At 'Inadequate' Call of Duty Offer from Microsoft
He practically tried to snuff out the Xbox One - Microsoft did a pretty good job of nearly killing it themselves at the start but later in the generation despite Playstation's huge lead where he continued to press with FF exclusives, exclusive modes, characters and missions in games and refusing cross play etc.
Finally Xbox's daddy decided it was time to put up or shut up, and Jim starts crying foul.
Sorry but I want competition between the console platforms as that's best for everyone - Sony ruling the roost made them complacent and able to do things like £70 games and other nickle and diming, Jim's just upset as it might affect his bonus
Re: Lighter, More Energy Efficient PS5 Has Revamped Gubbins
@Ryall Not really - wattage has little relation to heat, as a more efficient smaller power supply can be more concentrated so actually generate more heat.
Also a less powerful power supply may be a concern when you're pushing the limits of the PS5's power - so yet another reason with the cooling that I'm slightly wary of this upgrade.
I'd rather have the overengineered original cooling system if I'm playing a later game like Wolverine - we all remember how much the PS4 Pro sounded like a jet engine when playing the last few PS4 releases...
Re: Lighter, More Energy Efficient PS5 Has Revamped Gubbins
@Northern_munkey Think my point at least is if I'm paying 30 quid more than my partner (and this is 2 years in where PC has moved on a whole generation or 2 in graphics tech while Valve are doing great things with the Steam Deck) if it then overheats playing Wolverine or Spider Man 2 but the launch one doesn't I'll be fuming.
I'd be done with Sony at that point - already feel cheated by the cheap late gen controllers they skimped on
Re: Lighter, More Energy Efficient PS5 Has Revamped Gubbins
@kyleforrester87 On occasion though the quality has definitely been affected.
I can look at my first couple of PS4 controllers (one with the console, one bought with it) and they're a dark, shinier higher-quality plastic.
The later ones I've got are a dark grey almost-black that's more matte, and the sticks are more grey than black and I don't find the build quality as good.
But according to the barcode and model number, they're identical (I've not checked if there's some minor version number somewhere that probably is different) - and when buying online they often still had the old picture, I even returned the first one thinking they'd sent me the wrong model.
So while if Sony use this new cooling system to make a smaller PS5 (which I'd really prefer) I might give them the benefit of the doubt on it, if I'm going to have to get a big one I'd rather know what the difference is than trust them like I did with my controllers (and got burnt)...
Re: Lighter, More Energy Efficient PS5 Has Revamped Gubbins
@Bizzy Good shout, for long distances I've often gone for a slightly more expensive shielded cable just in case it runs too close to an electro-magnetic source.
Static IPs could be a shout too.
Pretty glad at the moment I've more networked devices than ever before but they all seem to be behaving (I've jinxed it now!) - university I used to get it in the neck from housemates if we got lag while gaming, and spent way too many days playing with router settings so it's nice to find someone else who knows the pain of playing with those settings
Re: Lighter, More Energy Efficient PS5 Has Revamped Gubbins
@Shepherd_Tallon I think it's a fair point that it's might be about decreasing losses if they've moved back into a loss per unit - although with Jim Ryan that could just as easily mean "we started to make less profit per unit".
I just really wish Sony would be upfront about it - if I'm buying a later model, I want to know what's improved, what's maybe a little bit cheaper / less cool, how well tested it was and if they plan on another version really soon.
And be honest about the need for the redesigns, particularly when it's just gone up £30 here and 50 Euros in our neighbours.
Some of the refreshes can be fine - the 1TB PS4 for example I ended up picking up and it's still going strong - while the later PS4 controllers seemed cheaper plastic than my original one and don't match (which drives me nuts). I just wish Sony would actually communicate!
Re: Lighter, More Energy Efficient PS5 Has Revamped Gubbins
@riceNpea Ah if you find it seems to move in the port, I on occasion have used electrical tape to force a cable into a particular position in the port so it maintains connectivity :S
Really bad if you're forced into it, fingers crossed stock is better soon so could at least get a replacement PS5 or get it repaired depending if go via home insurance or Sony support...
Re: Lighter, More Energy Efficient PS5 Has Revamped Gubbins
@riceNpea Ignore my query about cordless phones / microwaves then as they're more a Wifi issue.
How does the cable run to the router, do you use Powerline adaptors or have a long one going all the way to it? And does anyone else in the house get internet disconnections?
If direct to the router and no one else gets them, I'd maybe try a different port on the router and maybe a new cable if it's a bit frayed / loose at the ends. If tried those and only the PS5 has the issue, I'd maybe try the latest firmware and contact Sony support if that doesn't help unfortunately
Re: Lighter, More Energy Efficient PS5 Has Revamped Gubbins
@riceNpea No problem, when building a PC for use on the TV I wanted to try and avoid a fan (but also didn't want to go water cooling as if I screwed up there's just way too many electronics in the living room that could drown) I got way too deep into cooling solutions and technology so I'm quite intrigued by the pictures in the article.
Coil whine is a nightmare, short of taking the covers off and checking nothing is in the fan area there's not much you can do either.
I only mention checking the fan area because I've had a metal shaving from manufacture, a simple crumb and an overhanging cable from an expensive power unit (that wasn't as tightly packed as it should have been!) cause me whine-type noises over the years as once up to speed they create high-pitched noise - short of that though sadly there's not much to be done.
Internet wise, are you plugged into your router with a cable or are you using the Wifi? And do you have any of these devices in a 10 metre radius - microwave, cordless landline telephone or weirdly a fridge or freezer?
Re: Lighter, More Energy Efficient PS5 Has Revamped Gubbins
@riceNpea Sorry, it's more frustration that I'm affected by the price rise and redesigns, and I've seen you in many threads asking this question or defending Sony on these particular points.
As a direct answer, you see the big fins in the first design? They're often made from aluminium or other metals (particularly if need higher thermal conduction) that are reasonably costly for such density and quality.
The first and second clearly use the same metal, the third may use a higher thermal one - but even then it's so much smaller there's no metal around that could compensate for such loss of surface area.
In terms of better R&D etc. - there's not been any massive strides in cooling in the last 2 years that could explain such a significant reduction in the cooling unit size.
Instead I suspect a minor change in material that is a better conductor so they could shrink the slightly hideous second design - but even if it was one of the best conductors around I don't see how it ends up more expensive or better at cooling than the launch unit.
Sony (and their fans like Digital Foundry) will argue it still cools current games more than enough and is a bit more efficient as the cooling solution was overdesigned - but I'd argue I want the overdesigned version when I'm playing on an overclocked GPU and playing games later in this generation that give the PS5 a workout.
So for me it looks like short of stealing my partner's launch edition, I'm going to have to wait for a Slim or Pro version...
Re: Lighter, More Energy Efficient PS5 Has Revamped Gubbins
My partner has a launch day PS5, while I've held off and got the XSX as the exclusives I like (Spider Man, Ghost of Tsushima) are on the PS4 too and perform well enough.
I always get both Xbox and PlayStation every generation, and this is the longest I've gone in a generation without picking up the second console - normally the price has started to come down or has a shrunk / Pro version on the horizon (I'm cursed to always buy just before the Pro is announced!).
But this design has me concerned - it's plainly obvious there are way less cooling fins in the newer units, even if the ventilation unit looks a bit bigger.
That's a worry as it suggests the fan may have to go higher for games later in the generation that really tax the PS5 - as the fins in particular are important for cooling (just look up fanless CPU coolers for PCs).
Given the higher clocked GPU I think I'm going to hold off until these newer units have had some chonky games thrown at them - otherwise I might wait for a Pro or Slim version (I could accept a Slim making more noise for example as a trade off to get rid of the huge size - not sure we can fit two in the house!).
Re: Lighter, More Energy Efficient PS5 Has Revamped Gubbins
@riceNpea FFS they wouldn't be using the parts if they were more expensive, I can guarantee you that.
A lot of the parts are made of minerals and materials that are pretty expensive in themselves - so purely in the reduction in weight and size of some of these parts (particularly the motherboard and cooling) you'd often find a decent saving.
Re: PS5 Price Increase Confirmed for UK, Europe, Japan, Canada, and More
Xbox - each year now do a FIFA Series S bundle for £249.
Also Xbox - we have a Game Pass app on Samsung TVs, ChromeCast / Android TV and on phones where you can play console games for a small monthly fee.
Also Xbox - we have All Access for £28.99 a month (XSX) for 2 years with Game Pass Ultimate, and it costs less than if you bought the console and a monthly GPU sub for 2 years and includes Day One games (which are £50/55 otherwise).
Also Xbox - use our Rewards program and we'll give you anywhere between £5 and £15 a month (or even more) in points - and you can use it to pay for Game Pass too.
PlayStation - we have a £389 or £479 console, PS Plus is available and some tiers include old games - our brand new games are £70.
Also PlayStation - we have a Rewards program, it'll give you some unique items.
Can anyone else see the value disparity? Sony need to be keeping in mind the competition and bring their A game, not be putting prices up all the time!
Re: PS5 Price Increase Confirmed for UK, Europe, Japan, Canada, and More
@eshy76 Yep so I'm sure we're both agreed, let's really hope Xbox knock it out of the park this generation.
As Sony clearly need strong competition to force them to be nicer to their customers.
And this whole "gaming is a luxury", "it's a competitive market" - yep it is, I've got an XSX and Game Pass (and the ridiculously lucrative Microsoft Rewards) and I've played hundreds of games including numerous AAA releases and spent £28.99 a month (2 years All Access for the XSX + GP Ultimate) and maybe a hundred or so (as I've had like £250 in Rewards vouchers in that time).
I normally get the "other" console in a generation too so I can catch up on their stuff, but this time I've been holding out longer than any previous one because the costs are just insane by comparison - I have to buy PS5 games for my partner's birthday / Christmas presents and honestly I'm so glad when it's not a Sony game as they seem to be the primary £70 ones.
If someone like me who always gets both is seriously considering waiting years or not bothering at all, and parents can walk into Tesco and leave with a Series S and FIFA 23 (when it releases) together for £250, I'm seriously thinking the demand will start to cool fast for the PS5 if Sony carry on like this...
Re: PS5 Price Increase Confirmed for UK, Europe, Japan, Canada, and More
@eshy76 Yes but not doing it in the US shows they're not doing it in countries where Xbox is putting up strong competition - so they're basically screwing their loyal markets.
As the US is probably also the biggest market, even a $10 increase there would help a lot - which suggests they're just doing it because they can, whereas in the US they can't risk Xbox gaining a majority market share.
They could just have easily bundled a first party game in for the price rise, or increased accessory costs - there are other ways than this which might reduce the amount of future PS Plus users and game buyers that Sony can tap into...
Re: PS5 Price Increase Confirmed for UK, Europe, Japan, Canada, and More
@UltimateOtaku91 That's not a great argument - "everyone has less money than ever to buy our console so let's put the price up!".
And unlike fish and chips where when it's gone it's gone, Sony then have you playing on their console - where you will need to buy games, accessories, PS Plus etc.
Re: PS5 Price Increase Confirmed for UK, Europe, Japan, Canada, and More
@spcspc The issue there is the numbers God of War or Final Fantasy do are nowhere near in the same league as CoD, FIFA, GTA, Minecraft or Fortnite.
So it's much more likely a kid wants a console for casual games just like many casual gamers - they're not really the target market for much of Sony's output anyway (I think only Spider Man doesn't have a high age rating).
So yes there is very much a risk they don't go PlayStation and their future spending isn't in Sony's pocket.
Add the fact they didn't up the US price, and it's really not a good look and it is one that might backfire
Re: PS5 Price Increase Confirmed for UK, Europe, Japan, Canada, and More
@spcspc Oculus price increase was incredibly dumb too, really going to stop the user base expanding with a big rival launching soon (PSVR2) and Meta supposedly thinking VR is their big ticket.
50 euros is enough to change the calculation - you can get an XSX for 50 less now and then have a 3 month Game Pass trial that gives you loads to play, while for the PS5 you've still got to buy games (as the new PS Plus really isn't being well advertised in stores at the moment).
You're talking fanboys will still want it - for parents or casuals, they might just look and go "Xbox can still play CoD and FIFA, screw it", and you've then lost customers who would be spending money on much more profitable items in your closed ecosystem
Re: PS5 Price Increase Confirmed for UK, Europe, Japan, Canada, and More
@spcspc Yes but if even 1% fewer people buy one because of it, and they in a year would have spent a hundred euros or more on PS Plus, first-party games and accessories then it would likely cancel itself out.
It may very well not impact sales (although some parents are going to end up looking closer at the Series S given the price disparity now), but if it does then given this is the item that gets users into your ecosystem - putting the price up is just bad optics and generates bad feelings.
There's just so many better ways to do this - bundles with games, models with the expanded SSD already installed etc.
Re: PS5 Price Increase Confirmed for UK, Europe, Japan, Canada, and More
@jrt87 But it's stupidly bad optics going into a cost of living crisis (and likely recession), and it's really not needed.
A few million on consoles is nothing to Sony - they make it all back from the high margins on PS Plus, accessories and games. Raising the cost of entry to a walled garden where you make money on everything they buy after the console (which they will, to justify the purchase and actually use it) is just bad business...
Why not just do more bundles rather than this? It's going to just annoy people who've not been able to get one yet, particularly in Europe (that 50 Euros rise is insane).
Re: PS5 Price Increase Confirmed for UK, Europe, Japan, Canada, and More
@eshy76 But if you buy their console, you're locked into their ecosystem so they get your money from PS Plus, 30% on games, 100% on their own games and accessories...
Why put up the price of entry?! That's the one thing you want consumers to buy so they then buy the rest of the stuff that has much higher margins!
Re: Sony Sued £5 Billion for 'Ripping Off' PS5, PS4 Players
Think Sony are the target because Playstation is the biggest console brand in the UK that is known to have significant digital sales.
There's also one important get out for Xbox and Nintendo - they allow digital titles to be sold by places like CDKeys, Amazon, Instant Gaming or Fanatical (so can compete on price) while Sony only allow PSN vouchers to be sold.
That wasn't always the case - I used to get PSN games from CDKeys and Amazon but Sony stopped it a while back...
EDIT: Scratch that, for EU and UK they seem to be allowing them again in the last year
Re: Sony Sounds Shook by Xbox's Activision Buyout, Says Call of Duty Has No Rival
It's really strange as I remember playing the first CoD - I'd just played Medal of Honour which was great, and then CoD was just another level above that.
Then CoD 2 I used to play local multiplayer with my uni housemates and was a blast - but it wasn't until CoD4 (MW) and seeing my brothers blasting away on it did I began to think it was a major franchise.
But even then I never thought it would reach the levels it has now (where with GTA and FIFA it's reaches "casual" gamers), where it's supposedly become a lynchpin in the console wars...
Re: Embracer Group to Buy Multiple Square Enix Studios and IPs in Huge Acquisition
Am glad Deus Ex is away from Square though - hopefully Eidos Montreal will be allowed to make another...
Re: Embracer Group to Buy Multiple Square Enix Studios and IPs in Huge Acquisition
Urgh what Square plan to do with the money:
Square Enix says the transaction (which was only $300 million) "enables the launch of new businesses by
moving forward with investments in fields including blockchain, AI, and the cloud."
Source: https://mobile.twitter.com/Wario64/status/1521017861803704321
More sodding NFTs...
Re: Marvel's Spider-Man, Returnal Coming to PS Plus Extra, Premium
@Wartortle Correct, once it goes from Now you lose the "licence" that gives you access.
Think like Plus games check for a current subscription before you can play them, Now checks before you start the game too
Re: PS5, PS4 Exclusives May Get Worse if Free with PS Plus Day One
@K1LLEGAL Returnal is almost a year old now - the issue is if they don't bring their games that are over a year old to the service it loses value.
If it's mostly third party games or first party only stay a few months it doesn't encourage people to stay subscribed or choose it over Game Pass - and it's much cheaper for Sony to put older first party games on it over newer third party ones
Re: PS5, PS4 Exclusives May Get Worse if Free with PS Plus Day One
@Ralizah Agreed - that's the big Game Pass thing for new console owners (or their parents), it gives you a big library straightaway without huge additional expense.
This needs to have older Sony games on it permanently so those joining PlayStation have a great library to start with - and it'll make them more likely to buy new first party games day one
Re: Marvel's Spider-Man, Returnal Coming to PS Plus Extra, Premium
@PhhhCough That's another big question - if they don't make it the PS5 version for PS5 owners (and for those using streaming) then it's another kick in the teeth for "next gen" owners.
Fingers crossed they've finally realised they need to reward those who've spent the money on their new console, not force them to buy it to get the best version...
Re: Marvel's Spider-Man, Returnal Coming to PS Plus Extra, Premium
@BritneyfR_ee I'd hope the monthly ones don't change, but it's the headline games for the other tiers that are more a worry.
Most big games added to Now - particularly first party ones - often only stay for like 3 months, which means Returnal, Miles Morales and the others could join in June and be gone by September which doesn't give much time to play them...
Re: PS5, PS4 Exclusives May Get Worse if Free with PS Plus Day One
@Ralizah That's my issue - he's still not said they're going to stay on it permanently once they reach the service.
If they're only staying 3 months this is no better than Now, and a let down...