Destiny 2: Forsaken sales haven't met publisher Activision's expectations despite the expansion making a ton of money when it launched in September. "Some of our other franchises like Destiny are not performing as well as we’d like," the company stated rather bluntly during its most recent earnings call.
The problem appears to be that Destiny is struggling to keep players outside the hardcore crowd engaged. COO Coddy Johnson told investors: "We have not yet seen the full core re-engage in Destiny, which has led to the underperformance against expectations to date. Some players are in ‘wait and see’ mode. If you’re in, you’re deeply engaged. If not, we think now’s the time to bring players back."
If you ask us, this is, at least partly, a direct result of Destiny's unconvincing history as a franchise. Destiny 2 might be in great shape right now in terms of general structure and gameplay, but people who have bounced off the game before aren't likely to come back until they're convinced that it's worth their time. We're sure that some would argue that Destiny has already been given one chance too many.
In any case, Activision doesn't sound best pleased. According to Kotaku, the publisher is also promising investors "a faster content model and new forms of monetisation for the game". God only knows what that'll mean for the title going forward, but we really hope that more microtransactions aren't heading our way.
[source kotaku.com]
Comments 43
I honestly feel like they need to do a better job advertising that Forsaken can now be bought without prior dlc. (And includes the old one). I would have bought it in September if so, but at this point I’m waiting for Black Friday since I have other games (red dead)
Honestly not sure what direction Destiny takes next. I don't think Activision and Bungie can just do Destiny 3 and everything will work out — I think the franchise is on a genuine decline (you could argue it has been for some time) and something needs to change.
Destiny 2 was a direct attempt at trying to expand the series' audience beyond the hardcore and it's basically failed to do that. And then not long after launch it p*ssed the hardcore fans off anyway. Thanks to Forsaken it's in good shape but it almost feels like it's too little too late in the grand scheme of things. One "we'll get it right this time" promise too many.
Let's take some bets on what fresh heck "new forms of monetisation" will be, because I'm pretty positive Activision have monetised everything except the kitchen sink thusfar.
1. Customisable menu colours; £2.99 each or a tenner for all six.
2. Play as Jared Leto for £19.99 (or it's £39.99 to, y'know... not).
3. Kitchen Sink DLC Pack (Pre-Order Now for Customisable Plugs)!
4. Some kind of actual community bet on what to monetise next.
I like Destiny... and I even loved it at one stage... would I get a third one? I dunno, maybe. But maybe they need to just knock it on the head and move on to something else.
The problem is I feel too far behind now to pick it up again.
Destiny is done. I'm sure a third one would sell to the audience still playing Destiny 2, but I have to imagine that market is shrinking by the day.
Not my type of game but I wonder who thought calling this forsaken was a good idea.
I remember hearing Destiny had a 10 year plan.
I imagined this meant a platform that would evolve and be added to, which has happened.
However I thought it would be one game that would grow and grow, and my character would grow and grow.
When I heard my hunter from Destiny 1 would basically be binned and I'd have to start again for Destiny 2, it put me right off.
I thought they'd keep adding planets and moons until the whole Solar system was available (and beyond), not just bring out a sequel and ditch the previous one.
Warframe is what Destiny should have been more like.
Maybe Destiny 3 on PS5 will be mind blowing, but at the moment I feel zero urge to go back.
I haven't even loaded the PS plus freebie from a couple of months ago.
They should really cancel the next full-game releases and instead just update the game directly.
Spending another $80 on Destiny 3 later down the line is just another pay wall that will filter a lot of players.
Look at Warframe and upcoming Anthem. I feel like their live service model is far better. It keeps the player base together across DLCs, motivates them even more to come back because nobody can say "no" to free content updates. And just make the money through other means.
I feel like Destiny tries to be too many things at once. A PVP game, a PVE action RPG kind of game, a live service looter shooter. And then it takes just so much money for a player to enjoy the full content of the game.
I would happily spend a lot of money for really great cosmetics (but not via random lootbox-ish ways to acquire them).
Instead, I am looking forward for Anthem to replace Destiny as a hobby game. And I am ready to spend money on cosmetics in Anthem already.
Its sad, Forsaken has been great, but they can't seem to just keep up the game. I bet the above "failure" will make them do mistakes again. Destiny is now in the middle of its 10 year plan. And it feels as if almost nothing really happened in the game. Only struggle after struggle.
Maintaining a game for years at a time, expecting to keep their audience and even grow that is ridiculous - especially with other games releasing. Destiny 2 is over a year old in a franchise that is over 4 years old. There is no way that a game can keep its audience for 3yrs without losing people along the way. Forsaken isn't a 'new' game - its an expansion, DLC! I bet by the time CoD 4th DLC pack releases, the audience has dropped.
As good as Forsaken is, it doesn't have the content of the base game. If it wasn't for the Base game, this would be a very small game but its an 'expansion'. There is a limit to how many times you can play the same gambit maps, play PvP, do everything that Forsaken offered and for a lot, they may not think Forsaken is worth the money - especially as it will be basically given away next year if past experience is anything to go by.
To me this sounds bad news for the 'loyal' fanbase - call them hardcore if you want but I think they the loyal fanbase, the ones that continue to support the game, bought the expansions etc. It seems that Activision will now try and find ways to milk every penny they have to offset those that have left or haven't bothered with Forsaken yet. Maybe if Activision actually made and released games, they wouldn't be reliant on 1 or 2 titles for their profits, 1 or 2 titles for all their aggressive MTX. If Destiny or CoD collapse, they are would really struggle to get their 'billions' in profit every year!
This whole series could have been implemented much better. Should have just been an mmo, but no, Activision is money hungry and stupid.
Looks like that new monetisation scheme is already in, Eververse is now selling old emotes for up to $10 each! At least they changed them slightly (different colours) so we can all see the idiots that bought the 'new' versions.
Didn’t you just post an article about D2 making more money than FIFA in September?
I think after botching Destiny 1 and 2 releases and season passes, and the Diablo Immortal debacle, a lot of people are in "wait and see" mode whenever Activision's name is attached to a project.
@Marcus9490 Apparently it’s still not enough for Activision.
Just how much money is enough for Activision? Destiny made the largest amount in September and its still not enough. I'd say this game is in a pretty good shape and they are doing good atm, but the publisher is way too greedy. I imagine people at Bungie regret leaving Microsoft, especially now that Microsoft has dramatically changed. Just one more game Bungie, survive just one more game and you're done with Activision.
This is the problem with companies like Activision and their business models, anything not increasing how much money they have made is seen as a failure. Yet they are too short sighted to see that the microtransaction bubble will burst. You can bet the next Assassin's Creed will have more incentives to give them extra cash as they have to make even more money than last time, the new game this year did compared to the last one but weirdly gamers still defend them.
Gamers only have a finite amount of time and money for games but increasingly every publisher seems to want to take more of that time and money, well they all can't have it and at some point there will be casualties.
As for Destiny 2 I gave it a go when it came to plus and it felt exactly like the original, now I had a lot of fun with that game but have little desire to go through the grind from scratch again. It didn't help that even the PlayStation store didn't seem to know how I could upgrade to the latest dlc so I just deleted it instead
I got it free so whatever I'll eventually check it out, wonder how many reskins of the same 3 enemy types this one has.
They have been giving the base game away on every platform now I recently got it given for free through the blizzard battle.net program as I was playing Diablo 3 and for a free gift and it was Destiny 2. I already have it on PS4 but wanted to try the pc version so much better obviously at a guaranteed 60fps. But again I have no DLC for either platform and it's still too high in price for all of it I am waiting for the full bundle to go down to a price I think I'll pay and if it means waiting longer then I'll wait and the game will be dead.
I was so darn disappointed by the first two season pass DLCs, that I decided to (funnily) wait and see how Forsaken fares. I might be getting Forsaken when it's on sale around x-mas. Or might as well stay in 'wait and see' mode and give Anthem a chance.
I haven't played Destiny 2 despite having owned it for a year physically, and since it was on PS Plus digitally, because I played the first one and I saw the iceberg on the horizon. From the outside looking in, this is a franchise that had a cool concept that could have been really interesting, but really interesting doesn't buy yachts so they've just milked it to death and seemingly annoyed anyone and everyone who ever cared for it.
They made it TOO EXCLUSIVE.
Im all for hard content for hardcore players. But make exclusive, end game, enticing content but only for a tiny percentage... and watch your player base plummet when realisation dawns.
People are frustrated with the fact theyre doing the same mid level stuff and insulted it’s, apparently, due to “having no friends”.
@Marcus9490 if this is true, this makes me happy about the real state of FIFA ^_^
The reason I stopped playing Destiny 2 was I got sick of the constant money grabbing so more monetisation is not going to bring me back. Just shows what they care about, no interest in making great games just making as much money as possible. I never understand how Activision doesn't get more hate like EA and Ubisoft have in the past.
It'll take a heck of a lot for me to go back to Destiny.
Destiny, in fact no game, should be built around microtransactions or DLC.
Release a game. That's it, the buyer gets the full package. Microtransactions should only ever be cosmetic.
With destiny, you get locked out of content once a DLC is released. You also get locked out of content because you have to group up with people to play it. Every Mmo does this. That's always left a bad impression with me.
So, Destiny monetise everything, makes its very awkward to get top gear equipment, and what you might be able to get takes months to grind out. Then Activision wonder why the game isn't doing as good as they hoped, and yet everyone else can clearly see why it's under performing.
I'm always left gob smacked at both the arrogance and stupidity of companies that refuse to listen to their customers.
It's never enough, is it?
You should think maybe more add value and more quality dont be silly we have cattle better known as the customer. 😁
COD breaks records every time and everyone keeps on feeding the Monster. 👍🤣🤣🤣
I think this just sums up Activisions current business modelnto a T; the franchise isn't making us as much as we want because gamers aren't returning cuz the games have been kinda disappointing so far, so let's introduce new monetisation options to milk the existing player base for everything they've got before we piss them off and they leave too!
It's pretty sad really, especially when you consider that Activision used to release great games. Used to. Now whenever you see their name attached you have to wait and see how they've screwed it up before deciding whether to lay some money down or not. The same applies to EA.
@Fortysixter_uk Almost sounds criminal. 😑
@bindiana Milk you when untill you are dry and then off to the butcher. 😉
@BAMozzy Would it be awsome if they release the game in a full state like that and then release a little more expensive quality DLC. 😉
I know its Activision Blizzard it will never happen. 😁
@carlos82 This shows why its not possible to keep going like this. At the Jimquistion he says it perfectly there will be a ceiling and then all the investors will leave the company to die. Just wait and see.
@Quintumply Would you do it for £1000?
I am sure they will lose more players in March with Anthem and Division 2 hitting, if they get there games right could hit Destiny hard. If i was either of them would be tempted to release a big dlc update around September when Destiny 3 or next DLC hits.
@kyleforrester87 Go on then.
@Quintumply you cheap tart
@kyleforrester87
@Flaming_Kaiser I never played World of Warcraft but didn't that have expansions? As for Destiny, its a live service game so you aren't going to get 'everything' on release - there are events etc that are time sensitive - we have just had the Halloween event. Also Destiny Forsaken isn't 'static' either - by static I mean that the game and content remain static - until you get DLC/Expansions. The Dreaming City has a 3 week cycle which ties into some contents accessibility. In some ways that helps rather than having everything all at once that you could blast through in a few weeks and then have nothing 'new' until the DLC launches. Games like CoD are 'static' and, like Destiny's PvP, you can keep playing the MP until you get bored of the same maps until the DLC brings a few more.
Hitman wasn't released as a complete package - its content released over the course of time and we are seeing more games now do away with paid for DLC/Season Passes in favour of releasing these for free - maybe supplemented by MTX but are these 'incomplete' at launch? Personally I think games like Titanfall 2 and Battlefront 2 were 'complete' at launch because they had 'similar' content to their predecessors as the base game and the free content added to that much like the traditional DLC format has.
Destiny is a different beast to games like CoD, Halo etc. For a start its a service game. The content on paper may not sound like much either when compared to these - a dozen or so short missions that form a story, a few strikes, a few maps and a raid - as well as new 'gear' to acquire but it can provide many more hours of game time than most games - more variety and options too. More SP, Co-op, competitive, more gear to try and get etc. Its generally once you have acquired the gear, reached the levels and ranks with factions, that the 'reward' stops. OK so you may end up playing Story missions (at higher difficulty) over and over again to level up your vanguard and characters or grind the Raid to acquire the weapons - especially the exotic weapon as well as level up, just play to get engrams for Eververse rather than pay Silver to get the items.
I have never spent as many hours in a single game as I have for Destiny - even Destiny 2 has more hours than any other game I have ever played. Some of that is because of 'seasons' with new rewards for each season, some of that is because of the new gear and content added in expansions. I wouldn't be surprised if its been my most expensive game either but works out as the 'best' value if you look just at the cost per hour. I certainly wouldn't say its the most rewarding from a story perspective but its been one of the most fun games I play because the controls, the combat etc feel great and more often than not, I get rewards too in the form of gear.
I would prefer the expansions to be more like the base game in size/content - especially as Forsaken was as expensive with the mid yearly DLC being more like the Forsaken expansion. I am not overly bothered that content is added and seasonal throughout the year rather than just being 'static'. New mission, new gear, new events etc coming after release for 'no extra' cost. In fact I think that keeps my interest and often brings me back to playing Destiny after I have reached max level and got 'most' if not all the gear - the desire to get the new gear can be enough.
I don't agree with the MTX system, although in general its better than some as I can get nearly everything by just playing. I don't know how they justify £10 for an exotic emote or weapon ornament considering the price of the base game but I don't have to buy - its just an emote or weapon camo - doesn't affect gameplay. I know some may feel pressured to buy because they 'must' have every exotic. I don't agree with selling time gated content - year 1 emotes etc for real money either and think Bungie should allow gamers to acquire these in-game like the 'newer' Eververse content but overall, its better than some systems and the 'earn' rate of these Eververse engrams is not too bad either. I can easily earn the first 3 every week in an hour or so per character giving me 9 in just a few hours - its a bit slower after that but most weeks I can get 18 or more easily.
Anyway, my point is Destiny is a service game with seasons etc rather than just a 'static' game you buy and can blast through in a week or two and see everything, get everything etc. To a degree, you are buying a game that comes with a certain amount of content that will change and evolve over time - whether you are still playing in 6months or not, Bungie are still having to support that, constantly create more content, events etc, keep people's interest.
The other day I was in Destiny 2 lobby with someone that claimed to be a recentley fired from Bungie. He was saying that a new merchant is coming to the game, a merchant that will sell exotic items (weapons and armour as well as Sparrows and Ghost shells etc) and that after a little while this merchant will start to sell exclusive weapons and fast access to sought after items for real money and they will cost around $11 (about £8). I wonder how much of it was true now. I really wouldn't put it past Activision and therefore I wouldn't put it past today's Bungie.
I hope he was just a troll though.
I enjoyed both games but I played them like single player games. Hardly did any raids, never once touched the crucible and never rolled in a clan. I did think D1 was much better than D2, though.
meanwhile at Activision
Manager 1: "QUICK out last DLC didn't make billions like we wanted it too"
Manager 2: "What then how am i supposed to light my expensive cigars with hundred dollar bills now?"
"Manager 3: " How about more Microtransactions, people will lap them up because they are stupid"
Manager 4: "and lets make the stuff in the crates random too"
all 4 look at each other
Hell, didn’t their MTs just make a crap ton of money and more than what most other companies brought in with new games?!
@MartinJames That sounds like they were describing the Korean Specific MTX Vendor. Apparently South Korea is more comfortable with Pay2Win mechanics so the vendor there sells Exotic weapons / Armour for $. Its PC only and has their own regional server so no chance (at this point) of it bleeding over to other players/platforms
I liked the single-player content both games had. They should re-vamp the game(s) into a single-player story-driven game. Alternatively, add more single-player story content to the existing version. They have a cool concept for a storyline, with lots of depth to explore, but it's not being utilized enough. For me the multiplayer stuff have a short-lived appeal, as there's not enough variation and is rather boring ( I don't want to spend hours on a single "dungeon"). To me PvP is always terrible, regardless of game, it's never fun.
It's annoying to me because I can see an awesome single-player game in Destiny 1 & 2, but they wanted the 'big bucks', so multiplayer it is.
@Bonbonetti - Did you play the Forsaken DLC? The new campaign is excellent, it's easily the best Bungie have made so far and as it now includes the 2 previous DLC's there's a lot of single player stuff to go at. While I think the way Bungie handle DLC is really scummy I would definitely recommend buying it all in a sale sometime.
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