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Topic: PlayStation 5 --OT--

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JohnnyShoulder

So it's been announced then. I did see the news pop up earlier in my feed but I ignored thinking it was another rumour article. Thought this section would be chocka. What is everyones thoughts. Sounds like it could be pricey.

We are now in a world of people being offended for other people who they think should be offended, who arent offended.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

WebHead

It also matches up with what the reddit guy said, who correctly said no spoy at e3 amd anthem being a mess. He said small tease mid 2019 thena full reveal later in 2019

WebHead

PSN: JTPrime93

Kidfried

@JohnnyShoulder I'm hyped, but this news really caught me by surprise.

I'm happy they did it, though. It's a smart way of controlling the messaging, instead of having it all leak drip by drip.

Also really good to have PS come out first - versus the last two generations. It's cool to Sony be confident like this.

Kidfried

WebHead

PS4 BC confirmed means Sony can likely get away with $499. Most year one adopters are fans/enthusiasts and people will certainly be trading in their PS4s towards PS5.

Edited on by WebHead

WebHead

PSN: JTPrime93

JohnnyShoulder

I'm less inclined to buy Ghosts, The Last Of Us 2 and Death Stranding now as I might as well play the shinier ps5 versions now.

We are now in a world of people being offended for other people who they think should be offended, who arent offended.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

BAMozzy

Digital Foundry's discussion of the 'specs' and news - inc their thoughts on Back Compatibility and Ray Tracing...

Its a great discussion and well worth a watch - just need to have around 45mins to listen to it

Edited on by BAMozzy

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

JJ2

@BAMozzy
People (and some sites) downplay what they actually announced but DF are right. It's a big deal to have basically the best we could hope for (Zen 2, Navi, SSD etc)
Now of course it's not going into specifics but it's great news.

JJ2

BAMozzy

@JJ2 Its worth a Watch - if only to have some perspective and discussion on the things that were mentioned as well as tempering expectations.

Its not necessarily discussing the hardware because some of it is unknown - especially clock speeds, RAM and even Navi is unknown. Ray tracing is something DF have 'some' experience of with PC games and even how it affects cards that were not built with Ray Tracing in mind. Ray Tracing 'can' be implemented without a dedicated Ray Tracing segment - like the GTX2080 GPU has. Of course it can be quite 'expensive' to use with other cards as its taking away some of the resources (obviously) from other processes - so its affecting frame rate or meaning you have to drop other aspects down - like resolution - to get the frame rate back up.

There is also an interesting discussion on Backwards Compatibility too. Looking at the Xbox implementation and discussing whether or not the PS5 could be similar, talking about licencing - which may impact on whether or not it will be 'total' BC or Partial and the problems Mark Cerny encountered with the PS4 Pro and its 'compatibility' with the existing PS4 library - something that forced the 'butterfly' design of the PS4 Pro's GPU (ability to shut off half the GPU), keeping with the Jaguar CPU and even the reluctance to offer the 'boost' mode at launch - that also came with a warning that 'some' games may not run as intended warning.

Believe it or not, even the X shuts down some of its GPU when running non-enhanced Xbox titles. Point is, its not as simple as just building a much more powerful system and enabling old games to run on that. It has to be 'built' in, a way to 'limit' some of the specs (shut off some of the GPU, change something in the CPU) so the 'old' games work and 'new games' use the 'full specs'. PC's can get around the problems because they can search for new drivers and the fact that games are made for a wide range of hardware.

Its always 'great' news to hear that a new and much higher spec Console is just around a corner. Its great news to hear that some of the details are what people hoped for - like SSD, BC etc but whether its to the degree that people want, ie 2TB+ SSD and Total BC with improvements to most/all PS4 games, BC with 'older' gen - Partial or even total and all this for under $400....

There is still a long way to go between this 'reveal' and Sony actually given us the full specs, the full information about every thing so that all questions are answered - whether that happens before launch or not. After all, not every aspect of the PS4 or Xbox were known and some things even changed after launch with MS dropping Kinect which freed up more resources and Sony too freed up a CPU core too in the first 6months or so. From the E3 Reveal to Launch, MS boosted the CPU clock speed from 1.6Ghz (like the PS4) to 1.75Ghz. From the E3 reveal, MS backed down on Virtual Reality with the X - maybe because that would mean the X had unique software that the base models couldn't run but it was still announced at the reveal. People hear Backwards Compatibility and expect 'total' and with enhancements yet the Xbox is regarded as BC with only a quarter of the previous gen games available as BC and few have X enhancements. The base doesn't always perform better than the 360 did either.

In other words, its not ideal to have 'little' information as we have had and then have 'greater' expectations than is realistically possible for the price point and legalities (such as gaming licences) allow. Maybe some aspects will live up to and even exceed expectation but others may end up 'disappointing' too because of higher expectation. Its why this video is great because it discusses things in a rational way which may temper expectation - at least until the actual reality is revealed.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

Zukato

Given the news about PSVR specifically being supported on PS5 and the focus on VR going forward, it's kind of difficult to decide what to do here. Should one buy it now or wait for the new version (PSVR2) that's better on the high-end? I guess it's smarter to wait regardless of the choice considering the inevitable price drop. At the same time, when the new one comes around, surely they would make exclusive titles to that one alone.

Edited on by Zukato

Faithful to Jesus.

PSN: BlueZuka | Twitter:

WanderingBullet

@29:43 That water animation doesn't look right as the protagonist in Death Stranding was walking through it.

Huntin' monsters erryday.

JJ2

@BAMozzy
I didn't feel they were trying to temper expectation. On the opposite they seem very excited with the great news (keep saying it's awesome) while they were a bit worried before like the cpu the mentioned. SSD was a big surprise they clearly say it's surprised everyone.
The only bit of reservation was about Ray Tracing but I do think the host guy (forgot the names) reasonably suggests its not just a software thing.(because what's the point of announcing it then?)
Also even most ps4 games might play better due to SSD even without patch, wouldn't they?

Yea I mean I don't see a problem with 2 versions of DStranding being cross gen either.
As long as the PS4 version works on the PS5 that's fine

Edited on by JJ2

JJ2

BAMozzy

@JJ2 Did you watch the video properly? without your hype or rose tinted specs?

They were quite reserved over the 'ray tracing' expectation and questioning whether it was said as a 'buzz word', whether it will use 'part' of the GPU power that could be used for other aspects or whether it will have a dedicated Ray Tracing block built in. They were cautious here - not expecting GTX2080 (or better) levels of Ray Tracing capability. Also very cautious of going overboard with the Back Compat, not enthusiastically expecting EVERY game to be BC at launch and/or performing better thanks to the jump up in specs.

Therefore tempering expectation on several key points that were mentioned in the Wired interview. Obviously there were parts that were more exciting - such as the fast travel load time in Spider-Man thanks to SSD's and 'not' disappointed about the choices of Zen 2 (hoping it also has multi threading) and the prospects of the future games that up to now, have been built with one eye on the 'weak' Jaguar single core design and clock speeds of the current consoles. This was the most positive part of the discussion and left them enthusiastic over the potential that a Zen 2 processor in a Console can have across the board for gaming - not 'just' the PS5. In their mind, they believe (not that I disagree at all) that Developers have been held back by the consoles Jaguar CPU (inc both Xbox consoles and the Pro too) in ground breaking game design and thus happy that Sony don't appear to be 'cheaping' out on the next CPU. It may still be curtailed a bit comparative to desktop Zen 2 CPU's because it cannot run at the same clock speeds for the power saving and cooling that will be easier to manage. Obviously the drop to 7nm will help with cooling requirements and power draw too - no doubt the power brick will be inside the console which will add to heat issues if CPU, GPU and of course the Fans keeping everything cool are drawing a LOT of power from the brick.

They couldn't really enthuse over Navi too much because Navi is still an unknown and relying on leaked info and insider comments - like Navi outperformed expectation in preliminary testing. In other words, AMD predicted performance from this GPU was greater than that but as its not out in the wilds yet, its an unknown for DF. They cannot have a guesstimate as to how [computational] powerful Navi could be. They also couldn't speculate on RAM, what type and/or how much the new system could have - other than they are expecting more than 8GB - I would expect at least 12GB but again may depend on type and bandwidth they use. It can't be too small or slow as the Spider-Man demo's proved with the ability to stream in assets extremely fast either swinging through the city or when jumping from one area to the next - the assets still need to be loaded in for the 'new' area.

I am not saying that DF didn't have any 'excitement' over the Specs and accompanying info but they weren't making more of things and actually lowering expectation on several key points that were mentioned in the original source material. Considering that most people here are most excited by the prospect of BC (according to Push Squares poll), the way DF downplay it - based on their knowledge of Xbox and what they had to do for just the 'limited' selection of games they have made available in their BC programme - a team of 100 involved in that - its not 'total' and a simple case of just flicking a switch and suddenly every game now works and of course discussions around the build of the Pro and the necessary steps that Mark Cerny had to do just to keep the Pro compatible with existing software.

Of course there were some enthusiastic parts but overall, and certainly as far as some of the features (not necessarily 'hardware') were quite conservative and, as I said tempering expectation. If it does turn out to be total BC with every PS4 game, some (of not all) boosted by the 'higher' specs so that games that drop frames and/or resolution now run locked to the maximum cap, if Ray Tracing is enabled without taking resources away for other GPU needs, for example dropping down to HD or dropping the frame rate down to enable Ray Tracing - much like a GTX2080 instead of it being more like the GTX1080, then that is better than DF are speculating and down-playing. They are not jumping on the Hype train and being overly expectant on what can be achieved in a console and, at the price point expected. I do think they were cautiously optimistic, not reading too much into things and, as Wichard says, better to expect the 'worst' and then be impressed than expect too much and be disappointed - and in this video, I think that comes across. That doesn't mean they weren't optimistic about the hardware but not overly optimistic to the point that no Console at a 'reasonable' price could ever deliver.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

JJ2

@BAMozzy
I watched the video twice.
Stopped reading your comment after the first sentence though. I have no time for silly arguments.
I told you my feeling about the video.
I note though that not long ago you were going on about the cpu being zen+ but now Zen 2 sounds meh or something.. Whatever.

Edited on by JJ2

JJ2

Jaz007

@BAMozzy I think it will be fully backward compatible because people will be very unhappy if it’s not. They’ve set that expectation are already.

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

Ryall

I don’t see why the new PSVR would have any exclusive games. I can attach my PS4 pro up to either a Black-and-white 420p screen or a 4K HDR screen and it will play the same games in the same way. The difference is the games are going to look better on the 4K screen. @Zukato

Ryall

WebHead

There are 3 cost saving measures that could help PS5 be cheaper than Anaconda:
-Sony seems heavily involved with Navi development so it is possible they have a better deal on their chipset
-Sony does not have to pay royaltee/liscence fee for blu ray
-Sony makes proprietary Ssds for their dedicated camcorders. They said the PS5 uses a "custom" SSD so could be saving there too
-Sony likely to be willing to take a loss on the hardware and make up for in in other revenues

Edited on by WebHead

WebHead

PSN: JTPrime93

Jaz007

@Ryall @Zukato Well, bacis information displayed through menus and environment, fine details of puzzles the world not looking absolutely horrific, and important view draw distances. All of those things factor in. That doesn't include more advanced motion tracking and/or being designed to work with a new camera.

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

JJ2

@WebHead
Good points.
Also, we had this conversation before but then we got new perspective now, the launch window probably matters too.
Not only for components availability specially the chip but I guess things like memory and SSD will be more affordable as time goes by. Thought it maybe March but I'm more thinking of Fall 2020 now.
Just my thoughts as little as I may know.

JJ2

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