zekepliskin

@AJDarkstar LMAO 😂

My god, really? In what way was he trolling?

I read it, and although there are some parts I don't agree with, it feels like an honest opinion and experience, certainly NOT trolling.

👎 to you, sir

@GREGORIAN Yes I agree, it's a good civil debate, contrasting opinions but all polite.

I've been thinking that the game isn't vapourware, but their promises technically are because there's a lot of cut content and missing features.

Oh, and their "good guy" reputation has most definitely gone up in smoke, and you might also say smoke is a form of vapour, so... 😂

@GREGORIAN "With regards to games release volume, it's not a Rockstar only issue "

You're right, it's not, but my point is looking at the timeline, GTA Online arrives at the point where other games disappear for 5 years before RDR2 so it's obvious why this happened - R* have been putting their developers to work making chintz for GTA Online and working on RDR2 rather than working on GTA VI. I know the excuse "but the games are so big and complex to make now", and yes they are, but Ubi are still able to punt out an Assassin's Creed title every year, well usually more than one actually. Sure, AC games aren't as well-crafted as GTA titles, you can convincingly argue that, but that's besides the point. Defending a developer on the basis of "No dev team has released more than 2 x games this past gen." (which by the way basically isn't accurate; there's more than half a dozen AC titles for the PS4) isn't really on, I don't think.

For a more detailed exploration about why a big contingent of gamers loathe GTA Online, myself included, go watch this :- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAURPd-5dSY

"BALLAD OF GAY TONY is the best Gta post launch DLC release. "

I'd pick The Lost & Damned but I'm a former biker, so I have bias. Anyway both of those Episodes from Liberty City are great (boaty handling cars and questionable shooting mechanics aside), and represent proper DLC, not adding heinously expensive cars, long grindy heists etc to an existing creaky 7-year-old platform.

I don't think it's fair to handwave the latter as "Gta O is just the way Rockstar used to release post launch DLC" because it's weak tea DLC to make money; it's not in the player's best interests, of making a memorable experience. It's to turn the gullible gamers into ATMs, who regularly cough up for GTA Online, SHARK cards etc and provide a constant source of revenue. It works better for R* because then they aren't relying on a "one-time purchase" for a single player story campaign, they have it monthly ongoing as long as they can keep players hooked, like rats in a maze. Sadly it means their days of making great, 3D-era sandboxes are basically gone, but I'm sure in time other developers will take their place at it.

@GREGORIAN "no movie gives you the feel of how the wild west was"

Have you seen a lot of Westerns?

I'd have to disagree with you on that. Sergio Leone's Dollars trilogy gives me a decent feel for how it might have been, including how the West began to be civilised and how the Civil War started to interrupt the "lone cowboy" façade.

It evokes similar feelings to some of my favourite missions in RDR1, where you get a sense of people clinging to the old ways being pushed out of them, forever, in the name of progress.

"the 2 rdrd games are the best ways to experience the wild west period in the USA."

In your opinion as a gamer. Important qualifier. Plenty of people might prefer to put on a Clint Eastwood movie or some such. 😂

"GtA O is online game play done well to a certain extent and it's not perfect but a million better than most online services or online focused"

That's not what players tell me.

It's often described as a completely grindy frustrating mess full of griefers, gimmicky vehicles/weapons and a broken "pay-to-win" system where R* have jacked up the prices of the unlockables while not adjusting the SHARK CARDs to keep up with them. Literally, inflation gone mad to fleece players. Stuff like that. The fact they've released it across 3 console generations while not even announcing or teasing a GTA VI or a Bully 2 or anything else tells you all you need to know about where their priorities are.

My guess is the sequel will come when the user base for GTA Online isn't making enough money for the shareholders liking. God knows how many years that'll take. And the potential issue is, the single player campaign might well suffer if it's just there to be a vehicle for the new Online platform, as we've seen happen with CoD titles where you get a pathetically short campaign which is mostly just used to teach players how the physics/controls have changed since the last one, if at all, before jumping into multiplayer. Some CoD players, all they moan about is "not enough good maps in multi" rather than the 5-8 hour cookie cutter campaign, you know how it goes.

"as compared to say GT Sport"

Yeah I didn't like GT Sport either. Still prefer GT6 on the PS3, even though running it in 1080i/p gives some nasty frame drops and sometimes tearing. The actual driving physics and career progression is better to me, although I still feel they've walked too far away from the super customisable GT1/GT2 era a bit, but it's still my favourite one overall.

@GREGORIAN "Yep the game is an overhyped pathetic mess of a vapourware"

Vapourware is the name given to a product that is promised but never shows up. As Cyberpunk 2077 was released, albeit not in a great state, it doesn't qualify as vapourware. "Development Hell" is another term that often goes hand-in-hand with it.

@GREGORIAN "absolutely sublime and flawless RDR2"

While I liked the game - especially Arthur, he has so much more personality compared to the painfully taciturn and dour Marston in the original - the overly-scripted linear mission design, dumb gameplay choices (storing guns on the horse, really?) and Dutch going "I have a plan!" dozens of times got pretty grating. Oh and that section in Guarma was pure padding, not related to the main plot at all. It's the best looking R* game though, I'll give you that.

"Rockstar are to boss of open world games and no other studio can a damn thing about"

They've spent the previous decade basically coasting, using GTA Online as a ca$hcow, so they've really let it slip. If you were saying this 15 years ago, I'd agree, when they had quality 3D era games coming out regularly. But you're saying it in 2020, where in the last 10 years there have been 3 titles and that's it, and R* not bothering to re-release stuff like Max Payne 3 on PS4/XB1 era consoles despite it coming out very close to the release time of those in 2013. Nope, they only care about GTA Online really, because they can monetise it with SHARK cards. Pretty lame. In a lot of ways, they've become one of the things that the game itself parodies. Pretty ironic. And all the flying cars and sci-fi weapons are just ridiculous - they don't fit the time period at all, they're just there to entice kids who play Fortnite.

@Salohcin I think the general consensus is the PS4 Pro runs the game the least worst of all the console ports, in that it doesn't have the FPS tanking as much as the base PS4, base Xbox One (S), Xbox One X and also doesn't crash as much as the PS5 running the PS4 Pro version or the Xbox Series S|X running the Xbox One X version (although I'm not 100% on that last one so don't quote me on that). "Least worst" just means best of a bad bunch here, in that it's still a poorly optimised game that crashes every couple of hours.

@TheArt "especially after 9 years of development."

4 years. It was announced around 8 years ago, entered pre-production after the last Witcher 3 DLC was done and then full production soon after.

@Jimmer-jammer "Entire systems feel like placeholders while others are fully realized and work great."

Good way to put it. I totally agree. For me I'd say the driving seems the most neglected, both in terms of how it feels as a player, and how the NPCs react. Or rather, how they don't. 😂

"The game always feels like it’s just barely keeping up. I often stop and just kind of let everything catch up and it seems to help a lot (ridiculous to have to do this)."

That... actually makes a lot of sense. The game engine has moments where it chugs more and more and more, then up pops the crash screen.

Which system are you playing on?

@TheArt "And that was a lot of people's mistake. Yes Witcher 3 is brilliant but that's it, it's just the ONE game and we had everybody and their momma believing they've already cemented their name as a legendary dev"

And that game was a buggy crashy mess at launch too. There was some weird stuff like mission NPCs spawning twice, Roach being even worse than she is now (really really janky, not just slightly janky after patching), highly variable FPS. I swear I even had one crash in 2015 on my base PS4 take down the whole console requiring a power plug pull to get it to come back up again. Never seen anything like it since.

In a way it was obvious CP2077 was gonna come to market partially broken, and I wasn't surprised when it did.

@ShogunRok "If those bugs never happened and I managed to finish the game, we might well be looking at a 5. But even then, that seems generous given that it crashes every 45-90 minutes. It's just not on."

👏👏👏👏

I think that and everything else you wrote totally justifies the score tbh. Your game crashed more than mine does on the PS4 Pro - I've heard this a lot from PS5 owners actually, it seems to crash more frequently despite having the higher framerate and more overall power to work with even in compat mode.

@Unffclcntrllerpd You'd have to get the answer from him to be sure, but IIRC he had a glitch where his V-phone doesn't work so he can't get calls from fixers etc, unless I'm getting mixed up with someone else (if I am I apologise to him).

The PC save bug is for 8MB+ saves, yep. I was sure PS was exempt from this because all my saves are 12.59MB. I assume they oversize them for padding reasons or similar... someone with more technical knowledge could probably tell you, if they've ever developed for PS4.

@nessisonett Agreed. I originally watched it because I'm a big fan of David Tennant, but I'm glad I did because the writing and performances were superb 👌 was it Neil Gaiman that adapted it for TV, who co-wrote it? I could cheat and Google it but this way is more fun

@Unffclcntrllerpd I think it's the save-breaking he took issue with. 65+ hours is a lot of progress to be losing. To be honest I score the game between a 6/10 to an 8/10 depending on what you're doing and how distracting the issues are (poor AI/driving for example, and any of the bugs I don't find ROFL-level hilarious) so I'm about the same. It could have been a solid high 9, but until it gets patched in a way that's definitive rather than throwing band-aids at it that fall off anyway, we'll never know for sure.

@nessisonett Thank you! Thought I was going nuts there! I see it on Firefox now I check but not Safari. From Good Omens isn't it? Hell of a TV show (pun intended).

@nessisonett Your post appears to be blank at this moment. Are you place holding it to edit in the words later?

@ShogunRok "Needless to say, that experience factored into the score."

With the greatest of respect, I think it needed to be said rather than it being needless otherwise 3/10 would have seemed vengeful IMO; some bugs/glitches I can live with, as I'm sure many gamers can, but save-breaking is just not acceptable. All the time and emotional investment to lose the save... well... that's the point at where it becomes just not good enough beyond all doubt, isn't it?

Any idea what broke it? If it's something avoidable then I'd like to know about it. I might take to backing up all the saves (I use all 20) every day or two just in case I have to revert to an old one because believe me, there's no way I'd start from scratch again at this point if the possibility of it happening again is there.

@djdizzy "You’re right. I don’t understand adults who would prefer Nintendo’s library of games (any Nintendo generation)."

Well they are an all-ages game maker, for the most part, so there are plenty of adults out there who do prefer their fun, colourful worlds to darker, gloomier RPGs or FPSes. What I particularly like about Nintendo is they tend to have a much higher percentage of female gamers too, which feels more inclusionary; there are plenty of ladies out there who love Animal Crossing titles with a passion, and fair play to them. I don't like those games, personally, but I'm glad people enjoy them!

Me personally, I wouldn't say I prefer them, but they can all be taken and enjoyed as part of a "balanced diet" of gaming, something to take the edge off the more intense, bloody, adults-only titles I like such as Bloodborne.

"We can’t forget the magnitude that mobile gaming have replaced console gaming. That’s another thing I really don’t understand. I get the convenience but the quality of the games and lack of setup (tv or monitor for screen size and controller). I don’t get it."

Now this one I totally agree with. Mobile gaming, for me, is horrible. Touchscreen controls, dumbed down gameplay, janky graphics, pay-to-win mechanics - in many ways truly all the worst things about gaming. Even using emulators without a gamepad is painful - the device you use to control the game should not be the device you use to view the game, in my opinion.

@PotatoTheG Yes I agree with this. Most Nintendo games tend to have amazing, tight control methods as well. I was playing Mario: Tennis Aces online the other day and I was surprised how fluid everything felt, and how much depth a simple cartoony tennis game had been given in terms of controls and strategy. Always more than meets the eye with Nintendo games.

Don't worry, if you read his comments you'll find that he's been spouting a load of inaccurate nonsense about Nintendo the entire time now. He didn't even know they'd made a Super Mario third-person RPG! Pretty ignorant and ill-informed.

@Futureshark "Ah but does he have 2077 copies of CyberPunk to play on them though?"

Imagining how many bugs that would show if they were all run simultaneously gives me a headache. 😂

@gusglez "I am fortunate to have acquired one and that's all I really need."

Now THAT'S a healthy attitude! Sir, I salute you 👱🏻‍♂️🤏🏻

@KundaliniRising333

"To say this is an amazing open world game is laughable."

To you, maybe. But not everyone is going into the game with the same expectations as you.

"the gameplay extremely repetitive"

When you get down to it, most games are extremely repetitive, that's why we have phrases like "gameplay loop". It's more accurate to say the gameplay feels repetitive to you in a way you don't like. For some people, myself included, it can be pretty engrossing.

"Please, do not expect witcher level open world game"

In The Witcher 3 I'd say you can go a lot longer between encounters with NPCs than in Night City, other than the usual random Drowner and Wolf spawns but even then. Kinda refutes your "empty world" statement, because as much as I love TW3 it feels emptier to me at times than Night City.

"lots of deus ex copying attempts but done more poorly"

I actually believe that in some cases they improved Deus Ex gameplay mechanics. For example, the takedowns play in real time now (unlike in Human Revolution where it played the animations with a "stopped time" effect) and you can combine a takedown and body hide in one smooth move if you planned it right. The ability to turn off cameras separately rather than relying on finding a security hub was also appreciated. It seems easier to have a character which can move between stealth and full-frontal assault styles too, whereas with Deus Ex it seemed if you chose a stealth pacifist route early on and built your character like that you were seriously penalised for it, especially in boss battles which in HR still favoured assault methods over stealth even in the Director's Cut (which IIRC correctly is a port of the Wii U version of the game, using an older version of the game engine).

"and an attempt at GTA elements of which they completely failed at"

Do you mean the driving sections? If so yep, driving shows off both the poor vehicle physics and AI in one swoop, so it is the weakest thing on offer. It might just be my imagination but it's been made slightly less worse in patch 1.05 - a couple of the bikes and cars I couldn't use feel less like they're made of jello now and more like there's actual weight to them.

"Here’s the thing: I love Cyberpunk 2077."

Yeah, me too. It's a game that succeeds despite it's flaws, not one that is totally defined by them as some gamers would have you believe.

Not sure why all the hate on The Witcher 3's combat controls though - I must be one of the few people in the world who likes them. Not at first though; I had to adjust my way of looking at them. When I realised the idea was to have Geralt carefully box-stepping around his enemies like he was dancing, goading them into making mistakes and then getting in behind them to land stronger blows, it all made perfect sense. That's why the controls are a bit indirect and ponderous - because of his momentum he can't just come to a dead stop when in the middle of a combo. The skill lies in learning the rhythm and how to use it and adapt it for different enemy types. Reminds me of Kratos in the original God of War series (before the norse reboot) - if you unleash a combo you need to wait a few seconds for them to stop, so when you use them you need to be damn sure you're not gonna get hit, ideally.

@Ryu_Niiyama "Nintendo are just willing to stand their ground and explain to shareholders why they have to delay and ignore public backlash."

Yeah they're a good example of how to stick to the old id Software mantra of "when it's done". I'm sure it's annoying to be a developer and have gamers talk smack about your company because a game they like the look of hasn't released yet, but releasing something buggy and getting more moaning is worse, surely?

@lordzand "Almost everyone has a favorite corporation for some reason. It blows the mind honestly."

I know, it's as if not all big corporations are evil and some actually treat their customers with respect! Hard for you to believe, I'm sure, but a fact is a fact whether or not someone chooses to believe it 😏

@lordzand "better not say that. You'll get a lecture from people who can't think past what someone tells them is best."

That's rich coming from someone who told somehow how he should think, act and behave on another Cyberpunk comments thread. Ever heard of the expression "pot calling the kettle black"? 😁

"But that's the way it always was. Consumers have no control despite being the source of profit for the company."

Reeling out the usual "big corporations are evil" script again, are we?

"People are complacent nowadays and they want a cookie for it too. Talk about entitled."

I don't understand. How are complacency and entitlement related in this statement, can you explain it to me?

@Vacuumator I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned, but it’s been reported elsewhere that save files over 8mb can/will become permanently corrupted, with deletion the only solution. "

I read that too and I believe it, but isn't it a PC only thing? I'm going to point out that all of my manual/quick/auto saves for PS4 are 12.59MB each and I have had no game-crippling "can't advance past this point" type problems... yet.

@zupertramp "A little concerned they are rushing these out with little regard for storage optimisation. I really don't need a 200+GB game when this is all said and done."

Don't be daft, these patches aren't cumulative, they're usually replacing parts of the install rather than adding to it.

If you'd been keeping an eye on the size of the game before and after patches, you'd know that after the first patch (1.02 aka "Day One") it's held steady at around 109GB. For me this puts it just behind Red Dead Redemption 2 as the largest game, which is 115GB.

My Pro has a 2TB SSD with 450GB left so for me, not an issue either way, but worth pointing out that the patches aren't making the game take lots more space each time so people aren't misinformed.

@CuzzoWuzzo "What are you talking about? Do you want good games or not? We aren't playing on 16 bit consoles anymore. Lmfao. What a ridiculous boomer take."

I think it's more constructive to say that if a game needs 3 patches within just over a week of release, all clocking in at around 17GB, it wasn't released in an acceptable state. That's 51GB of patches, another entire game's worth in terms of size (in fact a lot of PS4 games are smaller than that).

That's much more constructive than wheeling out the "OK Boomer" response like it's witty and smart (hint: it's neither). I'd say it's your take that's ridiculous, not his.

"Not even remotely true."

He was clearly joking, but it figures your sense of humour would be MIA ha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyr6A-onE18

Just watch this and learn how to turn any generic pistol into an insane damage dealing one-shot-kill machine because of the way the game (mis)handles percentage multipliers.

@jess3a3 Well... I have enjoyed it more than GTA V despite the inferior driving sections, and I haven't played TLoU 2 because it doesn't interest me so I can't comment on that. I personally think it's nowhere near as broken as some places have made out. People seem to forget that GTA V on PS3 used to drop into about 25FPS when driving in dense town sections, and might dip even lower than that on occasion. Games released at console "end of life" are often pushing so hard against the limits that even when optimised they're still too much for the hardware.

@lordzand "I'm glad you're finding me funny because I'm not even trying"

Yeah I know, that's the point! You're not trying to be funny and it's got nothing to do with deliberate comedy; as I've already mentioned and you probably didn't read, it's laughing at you not with you, because of your constant pivoting/talking nonsense.

"and it means you're use to low quality."

There he goes with the inaccurate assumptions again, ladies and gentlemen! You don't have a clue what I'm used to... but sure, you presume away if it makes you feel superior. It's all chuckle worthy to me 😁

"I don't even find this entertaining honestly. "

If that's true, the piercing questions are: why do you keep responding then? If you don't find it entertaining or funny, why are you continuing to reply? What do you gain?

"It's not even quality trolling anymore"

So up until this point it WAS quality trolling, is that what you're saying? Cool. Thanks for the compliment. I still dispute that it IS trolling, but a compliment is a compliment. Even a backhanded accidental one from someone you don't really care about!

"You must be with the CDPR trolling department."

...you genuinely think that CDPR has people like that on the payroll, or was that your attempt at humour? If the former, then they don't need a separate department because the statements they've been putting out ARE trolling to some people, from the way they react. If it's the latter, then it's one of the few things you've said that ISN'T funny, funnily enough.

"I never was rude to him. We disagreed but I didn't make fun of him like you did."

Um... actually you were rude to him :-

"that's such an old fashioned way of thinking... You need to stop echoing the tired morality of a generation that spent years telling me that I don't know the meaning of money only know to tell me I think my money's worth too much."

You "made fun" of his way of thinking and morality, basically, and presumed you had the right to tell him how he should think and feel and act because you're so damn presumptuous. You made it personal while he was trying to keep it on topic, between you trotting out your tired "big corporations are evil, don't trust them" clichés. But anyway he's clearly capable of holding his own so I don't need to fight his battles for him.

"I also didn't conveniently suck up when I let my true feelings slip out. Yes you agree with him despite deleting where you said what he said was idiotic because it was "misattributed".

I apologised for making a mistake, which is more than you're capable of, clearly. For the record I still disagree with the parts I quoted of his and removed. I just figured because he's not an unbearable pivoting blowhard like you he didn't deserve the tone in which it was delivered, which was more contemptuous.

But that's fine, continue to attempt to metaphorically beat me over the head with that if it makes you feel better. 😏😂

P.S. Still waiting for you to drop that genius definition of the word "abusive" on me...

@lordzand "yes insult me harder. It will make you feel less insignificant and more secure in your lack of just about everything. Prostituting your views for entertainment."

Genuine big LOL for this, I mean when I read it I was practically holding my sides. 😂

Dude, if that's your only comeback, it's pretty lame. You don't have a clue where my convictions lie, do you? I like the fact you're defending the guy that an hour or two ago you were cussing out, as well. Way to backtrack and undermine yourself. Just keep pivoting and changing tack to hide the fact you can't have a sensible debate about anything for five minutes.

Anyway...

Are you gonna tell me what the word "abusive" means then or not? I mean I can't wait. Bated breath and anticipation... please don't keep me in suspense, I'm not sure I can take it. I need that wisdom of yours. 😂

@Toypop I happen to agree with you on this, the way it's worded this time around sums it up nicely.

"Yet in light of everything I just said, people STILL handed over money IN ADVANCE for an unseen game, despite the fact that digital games DO NOT SELL OUT."

In some cases people knew, and while not happy about it were okay with it and still went with it. I read all the warning signs, saw the potential for another Witcher 3 style bugfest at launch, but wanted to play the game enough that I didn't cancel my pre-order; in fact only about the third pre-order I've ever made, after Arkham Knight (disappointing) and Mankind Divided (also disappointing but not as much), so you could argue I should have learnt my lesson by now, but bugs and crashes aside I've found a fair amount to enjoy in CP 2077. I'm kinda glad I didn't wait, but also know from buying it and not refunding it I could be considered part of the problem.

@lordzand "It sounds like you need a safe space my friend."

I'm not your friend; to me you're more akin to an amusing sideshow attraction, something you stare at and chuckle at and then when you walk past it, promptly forget about. I laugh at you, not with you; hardly a friend. 😏

What I need and don't need are none of your concern though, since you mention it; you don't know me well enough to have the first clue, but of course you're so presumptuous that you think you do.

"Someone disagreeing with you is abusive now? Pointing out your mistakes is abusive?"

I was talking about the way you were talking to him (Toypop) actually, but despite you writing "You didn't care enough to realize how different the writing styles were or that they were in two different areas" as if your judgement is peerless you've ironically not been able to use your mighty intelligence to work that one out.

No I'd say with me you've been more of a pest, than abusive. With him, abusive.

"do you know what abusive even means?"

No idea. Why don't you explain it to me genius, you obviously know better than I do. Better than anyone does, in fact. Everyone should bow to your mighty knowledge. Please educate me, I beg of you! 🙏

So tell me, smart guy... what does it mean? I mean, I'm so clearly in need of your immense wisdom to help steer my life onto the right path, random person on the internet 😁😂

@lordzand Oh okay, I was hoping you'd pipe down and stop being abusive but apparently it's really easy to draw you back in with no apparent effort at all 😁

Corrected to TWO, by the way... before you posted.

I made a genuine mistake which I corrected, but talking about strawmen, feel free to treat them as me indulging in mispresentation rather than refuting some of the nonsense you come out with and mixing a few quotes in by accident. I would have gone a little easier if I'd realised he said them not you, because he's at least been civil when stating his point even when I disagree with bits of them.

Like I said, this is moderately amusing for me so it can carry on until everyone gets bored and stop replying... all good...

@Toypop Not sure who this is directed at, him or me, however I noticed two quotes of yours I mentioned was attributed to him accidentally so I've removed it. I hate misattributing quotes so I apologise.

@lordzand Once again, I can respond how I like whenever I like, funnily enough no one here needs to ask for your permission for that, bud. You're just not that important in the scheme of things.

"Past that point you're not worth responding to."

I think you just can't be bothered, because you're lazy and/or you know I have a point on basically all of it.

Everything I've quoted is from you anyway, I've got no problem with the other guy because he's not being an immature nuisance like you.

Either way, if it gets you to pipe down and stop being abusive for a while, I'll call that a win. 😂👏

@jess3a3 None of which answers the only thing I asked, which was why you keep using a nursery rhyme as a reference point.

@lordzand

"You didn't respond to anything else because you know there's no point."

I can respond how I like, cheers. That's how free speech works. 😂 You gave me more than enough to work with with that one part of your comment that I didn't need to dig any deeper!

"You're wrong. He's wrong."

No, we have opinions. People can have whatever opinions they like. I don't agree with the nonsense opinions you come out with, but that doesn't mean I can say they're wrong.

"Not my job to know how old you or he are."

Yeah it's not your job to be a rude, bolshy pain in the backside either, but you damn near excel at that, so what's your point with the "not my job" line?

"And no the reason I call people paid shills are when they find it easier to sympathize with a billion dollar corporation than other human beings like themselves. Now you know."

Didn't ask, didn't care to be honest. I just offered a guess; not really bothered what the actual reason was. Other than calling you out for saying dumb stuff, I'm afraid you're just not that interesting to me!

"Also you're going to lecture me about age when you're the one who brought up in the first place? That's some new level trolling there. I didn't make that part of the conversation you did."

A lecture is a damn sight longer. It's amusing you're writing it off as trolling, though. More correcting than trolling, I'd say, and since I value my opinion more than yours, that's what it is to me. 😁

"and you were wrong. He's not of my generation. Not that it matters but since you brought it up."

You say "not that it matters" but um, obviously it mattered enough to you to have to make that correction, eh? Again I was guessing; the actual answer isn't really that important.

Whatever generation you're of, you're still acting like a petulant teenager anyway, all pouty and "gotta be right". It's amusing me and making me go 😏 so if you wanna continue giving me a good laugh, please do.

"Do you lack that much self awareness?"

Stealing my observation about you to use erroneously against someone else? Hmmm... 🤔😁

[EDITED TO REMOVE MISATTRIBUTED QUOTES]

@Toypop You see, your response is actually well balanced and sensible, as in "do your homework and you won't get burned" rather than "expect everyone to do it for you, and get butthurt when you get a product you're not happy with".

@lordzand "you guessed wrong considering I'm nearly 30. I'm guessing you're a shill paid or not given the way you comment on everything I say telling me how wrong I am and insulting me."

You're nearly 30? Wow. Your maturity levels suggests you're about half that. Technically then, when you're insulting @Toypop 's generation then, you're insulting your own?! That's what we call "troll logic" (as in it's so nonsensical it's not logical at all). Sounds like someone should be aware that they're coming off as a troll before calling someone else it.

I suppose what's sad is that when someone disagrees with YOU you just accuse them of being a troll or a paid shill or some such because maybe, just maybe, your psyche can't take any kind of criticism and trivialising someone like that allows you live with it easier.

Wait, comment on everything? Way to exaggerate. I think I've taken issue with 2 comments and in both cases you were being bolshy and rude. You feel insulted? Wow how thin your skin must be, and how sensitive your temperament. From my point of view I haven't insulted you, I've just pointed out you're behaving immaturely. You're the one who has been name calling.

It's kind of sad.

It's a bit of a half-hearted attempt made for it's PR value without keeping the window of opportunity open long enough to be of benefit - if they were serious about this, it would have been at least two weeks, i.e. into the new year, to allow for refunds of physical copies given as Xmas gifts or bought in Xmas sales with money given as a gift to name a couple of examples.

I'll keep my copy because it's not quite bugged/broken enough to return and I haven't finished the story yet.

@lordzand "Hey at least you can take solace guys in the fact that a lot of the pc players who made fun of you can now not launch the game, are having saves deleted, seeing a 20 fps drop for no reason, and all sorts of fun stuff."

So you're assuming he's the kind of person who takes pleasure in the downfall of others, is that right?

"It's also disturbing to me that there are people in deep denial about the state of this game. I hope they're just paid trolls or something."

Have you not considered that maybe they're not in "deep denial", that perhaps the bugs that make you consider the game "unplayable" aren't as annoying to other people as they are to you? Not everyone perceives things the same way you do, good lesson to learn. Writing them off as "paid trolls" is ignorant and rude, although from what I've seen so far that's kinda your style.

@jess3a3 Dude seriously, what's your obsession with Chicken Little? You seem to use it in every post when you're trolling. Is your reference pool limited to nursery rhymes, or is there more to it?

@Toypop "Be responsible for your own actions, then you won't need rescuing."

Sadly that's the problem with people his age (I'm gonna guess well under 20) - that arrogant, entitled, "I'm blameless" attitude because it's always someone else's fault.

@lordzand "that's such an old fashioned way of thinking. This is the new age."

He can think how he wants, more or less, who are you to tell him what's right or wrong in the way he thinks? He's being a lot more polite about stating opinions than you, someone undermining what little credibility they have with phrases like "new age" and believing you're so different from those that came before. Ah, the ignorance of youth. 😁

"This is a company that did something wrong. They need to pay."

Try not to sound too much like you're overreacting and baying for blood. 😂.

"You need to stop echoing the tired morality of a generation that spent years telling me that I don't know the meaning of money only know to tell me I think my money's worth too much."

So first you take exception to the way the guy thinks, then you attempt to insult an entire generation, then act like you think you know best. You're not making a very good account of your own generation are you, because you're coming across as rude, arrogant, entitled and presumptuous.

"If someone sold your toilet paper that made your ass bleed, no one would be saying well you should have known that toilet paper was bad."

What a crappy analogy (pun intended). Is that a subtle way of telling us all you have haemorrhoids? 😁😂

@MrCetirizine Nice to see Invisible War get some love! It routinely gets panned due to being too easy and having a flat/purple design. While that is true, it is a fun if pretty short game, and it sits between two of arguably the best games of all time in the original Deus Ex and the second sequel Human Revolution, which is my personal favourite despite having a kind of rough/rushed ending (everything from landing on the Panchea onwards, more or less)

No, I did not request a refund because :-

a) I don't consider I was deceived (I saw what happened with The Witcher 3 at launch) because I did my homework and knew it would be buggy, but still wanted to play it.
b) Upon playing it found it flawed, but interesting enough and fun enough to keep playing despite the wonky AI/driving/police spawning/often hilarious bugs. When the game works it's a hoot. When it doesn't it's not annoying enough for me to give up on it.

Normally I'm the kind of player who would wait 6-12 months for a patched, cheaper version of the game (or at least, the ability to buy the disc used for 1/3 the price and then install the patch when the disc is in the console) so it's been hilarious for me to find the one time I pre-order etc the game and company become industry laughing stocks.

I never got why CDPR got a "saintly" image. They always seem to release buggy games that need multiple patches, Witcher 3 had notorious crunch, Cyberpunk 2077 has been much the same. It's just because of the enormous long hype buildup and people being sucked into it rather than making better judgements that all too many gamers are reacting as if the game was released as a personal insult to them. I have too many random 100k+ view YouTubers popping up on my "recommended" list at the moment where the content is 5-10 minutes of someone going "Oh my god guys I'm at a loss for words this is such a mess it's a completely terrible game blah blah blah venomous entitled gamer hate".

In my opinion, no it's not terrible. It's just a victim of some great talent in terms of level design and art style, some occasionally inspired mission design, sold out by being released too early after years of hype - i.e. screwed by management. If you take the game for what it is, rather than having bought into the "generation defining game" nonsense, it's a mixed bag. There's a competent RPG lurking in there beneath the problems and the anti-hype backlash. Competent, fun, but not reinventing the wheel and needing much more work to be playable for most people on consoles.

For me, I'm gonna add some more hours to my 40 hour play through, complete it (if I can; the bugs might make that impossible), and then shelve it ready for another play through in a year or so, when hopefully the myriad issues would have been addressed and all the gamers angry about it have all but forgotten it exists because they're fixated on something else.

I hope everyone gets refund that asked for one. 👍

”Considering it barely works on base PS4s, running as low as 15 frames-per-second in some instances, it isn’t hard to see why”

Believe me the PS4 Pro can chug pretty badly in places too. It will drop below 20fps every so often in dense NPC/vehicle areas. Usually a sign it’s about to crash.

”CDPR has form here, as The Witcher 3 also suffered numerous issues at launch, but comparatively, those weren’t nearly as bad. “

I remember them as nearly as bad. It did hard crash the console once IIRC, which I remember as being rare because of memory protection etc. The inventory UI required a total overhaul. AI “out of the box” on Witcher 3 was better though.

”publishers are just straight up releasing fully priced games unfinished, an accusation we’d level at Bethesda, EA, and Ubisoft in particular”

Yep. It’s getting out of control to be honest. On one hand games are much more complex now but on the other, so many people want to get into the industry so hiring more testers and actually reading their feedback reports should be just as important.

The fact is, these triple A games are expensive to produce but if handled correctly will make a decent profit. The problem comes from rushing, making employees crunch and then handing the consumer an unfinished product and expecting them to wait around while it’s polished into the finished state it should have been in when it launched.

Gamers are a notoriously hard to please bunch who love to moan, so why would you bring all that bad PR on yourself? Short sighted greed. Poor management and being pressed on by stakeholders will kill companies or at least wound them.