Not many Xbox fans complained when MS was very aggressive with 3rd Party Exclusives for X360.
This is all just residue of great planning and execution that really started with the PS3. Sony had its back against the wall and even though they were a year late and a much more expensive proposition than the X360 they managed to squeek out ahead in the last generation.
Not sitting on their laurels they really dug into what the PS4 would be in a very holistic approach (that they play tested with the PS Vita). That gave way to over 100 million in sales for PS4, PS4 Pro which has put them in a very good position to negotiate these deals for PS5.
I feel like all MS really did was make a machine that they could advertise with more FLOPS. Sure they did make a couple of smart studio buyouts. They didn't seem to bring their A-game with the console architecture. Its an impressive box, but the PS5 seems more well rounded.
"You do not know what a straw man argument is do you?
And its really quite simple."
I am well versed in logical and rhetorical fallacies, which includes the straw-man. I said it comes off as a straw-man. In the manner that you are buying into a presumption of entitlement which is a misrepresentation of a marketplace.
"Exclusives are not options."
False, every item in any given marketplace is an option. You don't seem to know what an option is.
"They are in fact the opposite as they force the consumer to opt in a different system just for being allowed to play a game."
Force who? Does Sony or Microsoft point a gun to your head? They give you options if you are willing to pay the cost. Exclusive games are created specifically to drive business to their platform. This isn't anti-consumer it is a business strategy to generate revenues in order for their platform to survive. This in turn drives competition which creates more options for you as a consumer. Having more options is a benefit to the consumer, one may say pro-consumer.
"Ambition doesn't come from just being exclusive. Otherwise all exclusive games would be ambitious simply for being exclusive."
Honestly I am pretty flabbergasted by your response here. Are you being silly here or are you just trolling me? I never said all exclusives are ambitions, I never said ambition is derived from a game being exclusive. My point was if you wish to support multiple platforms and you have an ambitious title you may have to make concessions to the game design in order to account for those multiple platforms.
"Also what a platform can do these days is very irrelevant. There is no secret tech in these machines."
Each platform holder will insert their own technology into their platforms. I can't say it will all be a big secret and certainly the PS2, N64, DreamCast was more of a golden age for console "secret sauce". MS, Sony and Nintendo definitely have their stamps on everything that goes into their systems. Why do you think it takes so long to design these systems? If what you say is 100% true a new console design would be no more difficult than selecting parts for a PC.
"During the PS3 you had the cell and it was so complicated most games didn't utilise its capabilities. That's not the case with these consoles anymore."
It all depends on the game engine. Sony has quite a few studios that still create their own game engines. Those studios get to focus on getting the most out of a very small range of hardware. That hardware however much it may share with other platforms is still a unique platform. Not having to fuss with the prospects of multi-platform frees them up to get the most out of the platform they do support.
"The reason why these developers make good games is because they are talented at making games and in that sense, for console manufacturers, it is in their best interest to make those games exclusive to sell hardware. I already acknowledged this."
Sure they are talented at making games. What platform holder would want bad studios making bad games exclusively for their platform. The relationships the developers have with a platform holder goes beyond the business. Much of what makes these relationships successful is giving those studios freedom.
"However, that doesn't change the fact that Exclusives are by design anti consumer. They are made to exclude people from your game unless you buy a new machine. That's where the term exclusive comes from in the first place."
OK you are just stating your point of view in a manner that is fact. I think your point of view is very sophomoric and suggests that you are entitled to play any game on any platform you please.
There is no conspiracy to exclude anyone from playing Zelda on the Switch. You are not excluded from playing God of War on PS4. I am not forced to never play the latest Halo on Xbox. We all have a choice here and while we do not have unlimited resources to play everything (including time) it is not anti-consumer because I elect not to pay for a system to play a game. There is no one stopping you from playing ANY game you want. It is up to you to decide which avenue suits your needs the best. Which platform provides the best value for you. Which includes the exclusive content (aka options) available for that platform.
"And to be clear. I am not saying Sony is anti consumer. Exclusive games on any platform are anti consumer."
Sony has Exclusive games hence you are saying Sony is Anti-Consumer. See two can play at that game.
"Why should it matter if I play on a pc or ps4 or switch or Xbox?"
Agreed, why should it matter? If you make your selection based on the best value to you it shouldn't matter at all because you will have your needs met. Just because game X doesn't land on your system doesn't mean you were entitled to it.
Your point of view would suggest Naughty Dog should HAVE to code for Xbox otherwise they are just being jerks to Xbox players. The fact is their relationship with Sony goes back to the birth of the PlayStation and Sony has generally allowed them to create they games they want and sell them on platforms that millions of people own. Given the great job they do on their games I don't think we consumers have the right to tell them where to publish their games if they have a formula for success that includes focusing their efforts on a single platform.
You don't have to like it but not liking something doesn't make it anti-consumer. I for one would hate it if all games had a multi-platform philosophy forced upon them. I have played great games that were multi-plaform. I chose to play on PlayStation because their exclusive games are pretty spectacular. I don't game on other platforms, but that is OK. Good for the other consumers that do and create competition that pushes Sony to keep creating great experiences for the PlayStation die hards like myself.
@Grimmy001 In a marketplace full of options creating exclusive content for a specific system is just a means of generating value on that system. I don't see it as anti-consumer as much as it is pro-specific platform. When a developer creates a game specifically for a specific platform they will generally use the tools available to them to show off what that platform can do.
Otherwise the developer has to make concessions to support multiple platforms which could diminish the original ambition of the game.
If you want a platform with lots of gaming options PC is your way to go to complete that mission. If you want a platform that developers have created specific content for, thus taking advantage of the hardware in an optimal matter consoles may be a better bet.
I don't understand how having options is anti-consumer? I think your argument is way to vague and comes off as a straw-man.
It only makes sense to generate software to show off your hardware. Why would you want to take a game and water it down for last gen? Not only that given that every PS5 will have an SSD it may not be easy to recreate for the PS4, unless you are willing to make concessions to the initial game design to allow for PS4. At that point you are not showing off the prowess of the new hardware but you are showing how well the new hardware can play last generation games.
Non disclosure agreements are pretty commonplace for alpha and beta software. Media Molecule certainly isn't the first developer to use them and enforce them.
Peeps need to quit crying. The game will be out some time this year this really isn't that big of a deal. PushSquare gotta pay bills so of course they will turn a molehill into a mountain. It is in their best interest to do so. I don't say that with malice it's an observation.
It costs money to transfer funds from a credit card. So the $5 requirement was an attempt to minimize those costs. Now items less than $5 may go up in price.
Sony is not the only one to do this. EZPass a service for going through tolls without paying cash funds my account $50 at a time. Do I cry about it? No because I am not a baby.
High cost of games is all relative. If you factor inflation some would argue games have never been cheaper. Especially when you factor in the production value which is higher than its ever been.
I can understand Sony not wanting to rub elbows with a service like EA Access given how established PS+ is. It's their call at the end of the day PS+ seems like a better deal overall.
This article would have been far more useful as feedback in the Beta Forums. While the game will look and mostly play the same at launch the issues you bring up here will likely get a balance pass. I think it's way to early to predict doom and gloom. Perhaps you haven't participated in a beta before?
Perhaps you aren't familiar with Sony Bend Studios, but they do put out quality games. Many fans of the studio are eager for a new Syphon Filter, but all indications are they are working on something different. Perhaps the "open world horror game" rumor was just a means of disinformation.
In any event people are curious what they are up to because of the quality of their past efforts.
@ShogunRok Good point I didn't consider the data wasn't real-time. Perhaps the price drop leaked? Honestly this isn't all that surprising, many in Japan were probably waiting for the new MGS game so a drop off is to be expected.
Talking about WHAT exactly? The fact that this author doesn't seem to understand how this industry works?
New IPs are commonplace with new consoles for the reasons I explained above. If the author really thinks this is a "talking point" it is due to a lack of knowledge about console launches. Perhaps this person was too young to remember what happened between PS2 and PS3.
If they were around for the last change of the console guard, why is this guy asking me things that they should already know?
The author is suggesting that Sony doesn't have a plan for the PlayStation brand. That claim is ridiculous, anyone who was around when the PS2 and the PS3 was launched knows there are never lots of launch titles that are PlayStation staples.
How can anyone who owns GT5 who would say that GT5 wasn't much competition for Forza is beyond me. The level of content you got with GT5 would choke your Xbox 360.
Cleverly you hid this comment near the end of the article...
"Of course, we still don’t really know enough about DriveClub to know for certain whether it’s stepping on Polyphony Digital’s toes."
You don't know, we don't know so this whole article is purely speculation and really smacks of "hey I am new to the video game industry". The fact is console platform creators and especially Sony always introduce new consoles with new IPs. No one wants to see their big guns come up against lack luster sales due to a minimal install base which every system has at launch.
Remember God of War 2? Why did Sony release that for PS2 when the game came out well after PS3 was released? The same reason, you generally don't break out all of your big guns for a launch. If Sony were to launch with all their biggest titles — how will they follow that up? Sequels?
There is more than enough room in the marketplace for 2 PS4 exclusive Racing games. Considering Gran Turismo comes out once every 3-6 years and MotorStorm had 3 releases in the span, I don't think there is much fear of over-crowding.
They can't just do God of War: Egypt and you guys should really give David Jaffe credit there, that was one of his ideas (to see Kratos going from Mythology to Mythology).
They have already missed out on the chance to make GOW cross mythology without it seeming tacked on.
Why not just make a new game based on other Mythology and not shoe-horn it into the God of War series?
@fchinaski The VITA and PS3 trophies are all showcased under Trophies on the XMB, they may add some more UI elements to sort and separate, Sony would be stupid to make any obstacles coming from PS3 to PS4 and considering there were none for PS VITA I doubt there will be for PS4.
Comments 25
Re: Reaction: Sony Wants PS5 to Be the Best Place to Play, And It'll Open Its Wallet to Achieve It
Not many Xbox fans complained when MS was very aggressive with 3rd Party Exclusives for X360.
This is all just residue of great planning and execution that really started with the PS3. Sony had its back against the wall and even though they were a year late and a much more expensive proposition than the X360 they managed to squeek out ahead in the last generation.
Not sitting on their laurels they really dug into what the PS4 would be in a very holistic approach (that they play tested with the PS Vita). That gave way to over 100 million in sales for PS4, PS4 Pro which has put them in a very good position to negotiate these deals for PS5.
I feel like all MS really did was make a machine that they could advertise with more FLOPS. Sure they did make a couple of smart studio buyouts. They didn't seem to bring their A-game with the console architecture. Its an impressive box, but the PS5 seems more well rounded.
Re: Soapbox: Sony Is Not Anti-Consumer for Making PS5 Exclusives
@Grimmy001
"You do not know what a straw man argument is do you?
And its really quite simple."
I am well versed in logical and rhetorical fallacies, which includes the straw-man. I said it comes off as a straw-man. In the manner that you are buying into a presumption of entitlement which is a misrepresentation of a marketplace.
"Exclusives are not options."
False, every item in any given marketplace is an option. You don't seem to know what an option is.
"They are in fact the opposite as they force the consumer to opt in a different system just for being allowed to play a game."
Force who? Does Sony or Microsoft point a gun to your head? They give you options if you are willing to pay the cost. Exclusive games are created specifically to drive business to their platform. This isn't anti-consumer it is a business strategy to generate revenues in order for their platform to survive. This in turn drives competition which creates more options for you as a consumer. Having more options is a benefit to the consumer, one may say pro-consumer.
"Ambition doesn't come from just being exclusive. Otherwise all exclusive games would be ambitious simply for being exclusive."
Honestly I am pretty flabbergasted by your response here. Are you being silly here or are you just trolling me? I never said all exclusives are ambitions, I never said ambition is derived from a game being exclusive. My point was if you wish to support multiple platforms and you have an ambitious title you may have to make concessions to the game design in order to account for those multiple platforms.
"Also what a platform can do these days is very irrelevant. There is no secret tech in these machines."
Each platform holder will insert their own technology into their platforms. I can't say it will all be a big secret and certainly the PS2, N64, DreamCast was more of a golden age for console "secret sauce". MS, Sony and Nintendo definitely have their stamps on everything that goes into their systems. Why do you think it takes so long to design these systems? If what you say is 100% true a new console design would be no more difficult than selecting parts for a PC.
"During the PS3 you had the cell and it was so complicated most games didn't utilise its capabilities. That's not the case with these consoles anymore."
It all depends on the game engine. Sony has quite a few studios that still create their own game engines. Those studios get to focus on getting the most out of a very small range of hardware. That hardware however much it may share with other platforms is still a unique platform. Not having to fuss with the prospects of multi-platform frees them up to get the most out of the platform they do support.
"The reason why these developers make good games is because they are talented at making games and in that sense, for console manufacturers, it is in their best interest to make those games exclusive to sell hardware. I already acknowledged this."
Sure they are talented at making games. What platform holder would want bad studios making bad games exclusively for their platform. The relationships the developers have with a platform holder goes beyond the business. Much of what makes these relationships successful is giving those studios freedom.
"However, that doesn't change the fact that Exclusives are by design anti consumer. They are made to exclude people from your game unless you buy a new machine. That's where the term exclusive comes from in the first place."
OK you are just stating your point of view in a manner that is fact. I think your point of view is very sophomoric and suggests that you are entitled to play any game on any platform you please.
There is no conspiracy to exclude anyone from playing Zelda on the Switch. You are not excluded from playing God of War on PS4. I am not forced to never play the latest Halo on Xbox. We all have a choice here and while we do not have unlimited resources to play everything (including time) it is not anti-consumer because I elect not to pay for a system to play a game. There is no one stopping you from playing ANY game you want. It is up to you to decide which avenue suits your needs the best. Which platform provides the best value for you. Which includes the exclusive content (aka options) available for that platform.
"And to be clear. I am not saying Sony is anti consumer. Exclusive games on any platform are anti consumer."
Sony has Exclusive games hence you are saying Sony is Anti-Consumer. See two can play at that game.
"Why should it matter if I play on a pc or ps4 or switch or Xbox?"
Agreed, why should it matter? If you make your selection based on the best value to you it shouldn't matter at all because you will have your needs met. Just because game X doesn't land on your system doesn't mean you were entitled to it.
Your point of view would suggest Naughty Dog should HAVE to code for Xbox otherwise they are just being jerks to Xbox players. The fact is their relationship with Sony goes back to the birth of the PlayStation and Sony has generally allowed them to create they games they want and sell them on platforms that millions of people own. Given the great job they do on their games I don't think we consumers have the right to tell them where to publish their games if they have a formula for success that includes focusing their efforts on a single platform.
You don't have to like it but not liking something doesn't make it anti-consumer. I for one would hate it if all games had a multi-platform philosophy forced upon them. I have played great games that were multi-plaform. I chose to play on PlayStation because their exclusive games are pretty spectacular. I don't game on other platforms, but that is OK. Good for the other consumers that do and create competition that pushes Sony to keep creating great experiences for the PlayStation die hards like myself.
Competition is a tide that raises all boats.
Re: Soapbox: Sony Is Not Anti-Consumer for Making PS5 Exclusives
@SegaBlueSky Nice to see someone with some critical thinking skills around here. Thank you for echoing my sediments!
Re: Soapbox: Sony Is Not Anti-Consumer for Making PS5 Exclusives
@Grimmy001 In a marketplace full of options creating exclusive content for a specific system is just a means of generating value on that system. I don't see it as anti-consumer as much as it is pro-specific platform. When a developer creates a game specifically for a specific platform they will generally use the tools available to them to show off what that platform can do.
Otherwise the developer has to make concessions to support multiple platforms which could diminish the original ambition of the game.
If you want a platform with lots of gaming options PC is your way to go to complete that mission. If you want a platform that developers have created specific content for, thus taking advantage of the hardware in an optimal matter consoles may be a better bet.
I don't understand how having options is anti-consumer? I think your argument is way to vague and comes off as a straw-man.
Re: Soapbox: Sony Is Not Anti-Consumer for Making PS5 Exclusives
Who are these "enthusiasts"?
It only makes sense to generate software to show off your hardware. Why would you want to take a game and water it down for last gen? Not only that given that every PS5 will have an SSD it may not be easy to recreate for the PS4, unless you are willing to make concessions to the initial game design to allow for PS4. At that point you are not showing off the prowess of the new hardware but you are showing how well the new hardware can play last generation games.
Re: Random: Raging Zelda Fan Smashes PS4 Over Breath of the Wild 'Clone' Genshin Impact
What a dumbazz folks need to calm down. Everyone a self proclaimed victim and seem to exhibit victim rage.
Re: Fans of Dreams Are Devastated by Bizarre Beta Rollout
Non disclosure agreements are pretty commonplace for alpha and beta software. Media Molecule certainly isn't the first developer to use them and enforce them.
Peeps need to quit crying. The game will be out some time this year this really isn't that big of a deal. PushSquare gotta pay bills so of course they will turn a molehill into a mountain. It is in their best interest to do so. I don't say that with malice it's an observation.
Re: Sony Removes $5 Requirement from PlayStation Store
@Ralizah
It costs money to transfer funds from a credit card. So the $5 requirement was an attempt to minimize those costs. Now items less than $5 may go up in price.
Sony is not the only one to do this. EZPass a service for going through tolls without paying cash funds my account $50 at a time. Do I cry about it? No because I am not a baby.
Re: Reaction: What Does the Death of Sony Computer Entertainment Mean?
@Bad-MuthaAdebisi
High cost of games is all relative. If you factor inflation some would argue games have never been cheaper. Especially when you factor in the production value which is higher than its ever been.
Re: Talking Point: Does EA Access Really Represent Poor Value for PS4 Players?
I can understand Sony not wanting to rub elbows with a service like EA Access given how established PS+ is. It's their call at the end of the day PS+ seems like a better deal overall.
Re: Soapbox: Why I'm Worried About Star Wars Battlefront on PS4
This article would have been far more useful as feedback in the Beta Forums. While the game will look and mostly play the same at launch the issues you bring up here will likely get a balance pass. I think it's way to early to predict doom and gloom. Perhaps you haven't participated in a beta before?
Re: Sony Bend's PS4 Exclusive Is the Studio's Biggest Ever
@JMillsDezign LOL I tazed lots of guys to flames too. I hope if they do another SF they make it Coop like the last one.
Re: Sony Bend's PS4 Exclusive Is the Studio's Biggest Ever
@fchinaski
Perhaps you aren't familiar with Sony Bend Studios, but they do put out quality games. Many fans of the studio are eager for a new Syphon Filter, but all indications are they are working on something different. Perhaps the "open world horror game" rumor was just a means of disinformation.
In any event people are curious what they are up to because of the quality of their past efforts.
Re: Japanese Sales Charts: PS4 Numbers Drop Like a Rock Just Two Weeks After Metal Gear Solid V
@ShogunRok Good point I didn't consider the data wasn't real-time. Perhaps the price drop leaked? Honestly this isn't all that surprising, many in Japan were probably waiting for the new MGS game so a drop off is to be expected.
Re: Japanese Sales Charts: PS4 Numbers Drop Like a Rock Just Two Weeks After Metal Gear Solid V
Sony just announced a price drop in Japan for PS4. Likely people are waiting until October 1 to purchase at the lower price.
Re: Uh Oh, The Last Guardian's Trademark Has Been Abandoned
@Dohv
You seem to forget that the only reason this game was announced was because Sony's hand was forced by a video leak.
Re: Guide: Here's How to Access Grand Theft Auto Online, When the Servers Actually Work
Wait I am confused how did he do all that without first turning on the PS3? LOL
Thank you Captain Obvious for that thrilling and informative video.
Re: First Impressions: Stomping Around with Knack on PS4
"it means that he game escapes having to crow-bar in every last interaction just because they are possible."
I think you mean shoe-horn.
Re: Opinion: Next Xbox Development Woes Could Spell Trouble for the PS4
That worked so well for MS last gen. You know with their year head start and PS3 and Xbox 360 only less than a million units delta on install base.
Tossing money at studios doesn't produce good games. Look at ACM.
Re: Talking Point: Is Sony Racing into Trouble with DriveClub on the PS4?
@ShogunRok
Talking about WHAT exactly? The fact that this author doesn't seem to understand how this industry works?
New IPs are commonplace with new consoles for the reasons I explained above. If the author really thinks this is a "talking point" it is due to a lack of knowledge about console launches. Perhaps this person was too young to remember what happened between PS2 and PS3.
If they were around for the last change of the console guard, why is this guy asking me things that they should already know?
The author is suggesting that Sony doesn't have a plan for the PlayStation brand. That claim is ridiculous, anyone who was around when the PS2 and the PS3 was launched knows there are never lots of launch titles that are PlayStation staples.
Re: Talking Point: Is Sony Racing into Trouble with DriveClub on the PS4?
@KALofKRYPTON
How can anyone who owns GT5 who would say that GT5 wasn't much competition for Forza is beyond me. The level of content you got with GT5 would choke your Xbox 360.
Re: Talking Point: Is Sony Racing into Trouble with DriveClub on the PS4?
Cleverly you hid this comment near the end of the article...
"Of course, we still don’t really know enough about DriveClub to know for certain whether it’s stepping on Polyphony Digital’s toes."
You don't know, we don't know so this whole article is purely speculation and really smacks of "hey I am new to the video game industry". The fact is console platform creators and especially Sony always introduce new consoles with new IPs. No one wants to see their big guns come up against lack luster sales due to a minimal install base which every system has at launch.
Remember God of War 2? Why did Sony release that for PS2 when the game came out well after PS3 was released? The same reason, you generally don't break out all of your big guns for a launch. If Sony were to launch with all their biggest titles — how will they follow that up? Sequels?
There is more than enough room in the marketplace for 2 PS4 exclusive Racing games. Considering Gran Turismo comes out once every 3-6 years and MotorStorm had 3 releases in the span, I don't think there is much fear of over-crowding.
Re: Talking Point: Has the PS4's Lack of Backward Compatibility Affected Your PS3 Purchases?
@Valky That likely won't happen. MS won't have backwards compatibility either.
Re: Talking Point: Should God of War Follow in the Footsteps of Assassin's Creed?
They can't just do God of War: Egypt and you guys should really give David Jaffe credit there, that was one of his ideas (to see Kratos going from Mythology to Mythology).
They have already missed out on the chance to make GOW cross mythology without it seeming tacked on.
Why not just make a new game based on other Mythology and not shoe-horn it into the God of War series?
Re: Talking Point: What if the PS4 Is Not Backward Compatible?
@fchinaski The VITA and PS3 trophies are all showcased under Trophies on the XMB, they may add some more UI elements to sort and separate, Sony would be stupid to make any obstacles coming from PS3 to PS4 and considering there were none for PS VITA I doubt there will be for PS4.