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Topic: PlayStation 5 --OT--

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Jaz007

@Ryall Hopefully Sony will just permanently give them to you for that console. It would be easier than the backlash they'd get for doing otherwise.

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

BAMozzy

@Ryall Something Sony will have to decide. PS3 will be losing free games via PS+ anyway in a few months - March 2019 so we may get some idea then. Of course that won't mean that PS3 owners won't be able to access their existing games but we may get some information from Sony. The big test will be what Sony do when they turn off the online for PS3 as PS+ games require online access to determine whether you have a valid PS+ subscription and therefore a valid licence to play those games. You don't own PS+ games anyway and the licence to play them is conditional - conditional on you having a valid PS+ subscription. Without the internet or a valid PS+ subscription, you cannot play the games.

As I said, Sony have to decide what they do. They could very easily decide that you lose your PS+ games when they turn off the console - opt to refund people any existing PS+ months left. The effect is the same as if you yourself opted to cancel your PS+ and get a refund on any months you had left too - if you do that, any free games are 'lost' - lost in the sense you cannot access them any more. You are not paying PS+ to get 'free games' as such, but enabling you access to those games for a set duration - that duration being the time you are subscribed to PS+ which can run out and/or be renewed - not necessarily straight away either which will then grant you access to those games you had received before and again for the duration of the subscription. I know some may lose a LOT of games but those games were never really their games. You don't get access to Netflix series you may have watched or bookmarked to watch when your subscription runs out and Sony could opt to be the same with PS+.

In a gesture of goodwill, they could just upgrade the licences to full prior to switching off the PS3 so any games you have downloaded from PS+ remain playable - at least if they are offline playable. You obviously couldn't play some aspects that rely on online connections if the PS3 is not online any more. They don't have to though because those games were never yours anyway and relied on criteria to be met - such as be online and have a valid PS+ membership. Even if you have a valid PS+ membership, you don't have the online aspect so you can cancel PS+ (unless its required for PS4) and get any money refunded - which again would stop access anyway.

As I said, I know some people could be very angry by that, but you didn't buy the games and paid a subscription to access those games. You obviously still have access to any game you bought with PS+ discounts applied but the PS+ 'free' games were (and still are) never permanently free and yours anyway. If you only buy a years worth, the last month of 'free games are only accessible for a month (at most - depending on when PS+ runs out) where as others could well be accessible for 12months. If you continuously subscribe, those games may seem as good as permanently yours but the reality is, you are just extending the expiry date every time you renew or add to your PS+ subscription but the fact is, those games have an expiry date and that date could be determined by you - as in not resubscribing or cancelling PS+ - or by Sony by turning off Online connectivity to PS3. If you want to keep them 'permanently', you could buy them outright, buy a permanent licence and as most games are 'old' now, the price is likely to be a lot lower than the price it would have been to get these at the time they were offered.

That may sound harsh but I do think that is fair. As I said though, Sony could also go above and beyond and gift PS+ subscribers the full licence of these games - although you would still have to download any you may have deleted before the PS3 does get turned off because you can't download them after - and that includes any you may have actually bought digitally....

It could still be years before Sony do turn it off completely and they may wait until there is so few people playing that its 'dead' anyway.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

Th3solution

@Jaz007 Maybe I worded it poorly (I have been working long hours and feel like my brain has turned to oatmeal) but I don’t discount that my PS4 and it’s games have numerous patches and updates constantly, even more so than the PS3 and it’s games, and I don’t discount that PS3 had online gaming and cloud saving and a similar interface. What I meant was, since I usually spend several hours a week on my PS4, those updates are constantly being done, and game patches are constantly being downloaded when I boot up. Heck, sometimes I have to wait a couple hours to play even games I’m actively playing daily, which is fairly annoying in and of itself. Now, my poor little PS3 gets turned on so rarely, the last few times I have booted it up it has large mandatory firmware updates and then trying to download the individual game I want, or if it’s putting in a disc then it has another long wait while patches download. And then, for some strange reason, every single message I have ever received in the last few months pops up in the inbox there, even though I have already read the messages on my PS4 or Vita, so I feel inclined to clean out the inbox (I know, probably unnecessary but just a touch of OCD there). Not to mention, the DS3 controllers are all dead and need to be recharged, so I have to plug them in which is a minor annoyance...
Anyway, so you get what I’m saying and the point I was trying to make is that it’s just enough of a barrier to re-entry to just put me off from even trying to use the last gen console. I have to invest a bunch of start up time and effort whereas I can just sit down and jump straight into something from my enormous PS4 backlog. If my PS4, which is already updated, has the UI organized the way I like it, has whatever cool or cute little theme I’m currently in the mood for, and runs faster in general and has a better pad and aesthetic, if it could play my PS3 games, then I might just actually go back and finish FFXIII-2 or Puppeteer, or play the Mass Effect games again or Red Dead Redemption. But as it is, I just can’t be stuffed to go through all the PS3 start up efforts again. The first year or two after getting my launch PS4 I did use my PS3 periodically, but now it literally hasn’t been turned on in over 6 months.
I hope that clears up my sentiment. And I think I may just be in the minority here, as I know a lot of people on here are perfectly satisfied to boot up the old console, but I find it slightly cumbersome. Not impossible, but cumbersome. And I must not be totally alone, because someone out there is paying for PSNow so they can play older games on their PS4.

And on the subject of online dependence, it is true that God of War and many of PS4’s prominent titles are single player experiences, but it’s actually remarkable how even the single player games more and more depend on online connection to get the full experience. I think it’s been said, but I can play Detroit: Become Human offline, but it’s much more fun to see how my choices compare with the rest of the world and with my friends stats. I think Shadow of the Tomb Raider has some kind of similar function, if I recall. Heck, Hitman and Hitman 2 supposedly can’t even be played without an online connection because of some ridiculous cloud based save or some such nonsense. Many single player games have worked in some kind of dependence of online connectivity to have the full experience. (Soulsborne games with their asynchronous messages and pvp, Uncharted multi-player, Red Dead/GTA Online, GT Sport, Gravity Rush 2 treasure hunts and pic sharing, Persona 5 with its online community comparisons of how time is spent, etc, etc). It’s almost getting to the point where games like GoW, Spider-Man, and HZD are the minority of there is not some little online hook included.

...[looks at the thread title]...But to bring it back around to PS5, I would favor a couple different SKUs where a higher priced model has BC and a disc drive and then a lower priced one may not have a disc drive or may not have BC for those who don’t want it.

Edited on by Th3solution

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

LieutenantFatman

Those PS5 launch games need to be mighty impressive to tempt a day one buy.
But considering how solid the PSVR line up was, maybe Sony will come well prepared.

LieutenantFatman

Jaz007

@Th3solution Do you not have PS Plus?
And wow, i didn’t realize how stupid Hitman was. I looked it up and it’s possible, but apparently unlocks don’t carry over. That game deserves the lack of sales it has then.

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

Th3solution

@Jaz007 Oh yeah, I have Plus. Just renewed another year on the recent sale in fact. Although I very rarely do online multiplayer, I do like the other perks. Is there something I’m missing about my Plus benefits that relates to BC or the trend for consoles having to always be connected online?

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Jaz007

@Th3solution Yee, the PS4 can auto-update in sleep mode with Plus, and you can have the PS3 turn itself on automatically at a time of day you set to check for updates and downloads (if you said from the computer to download a game on it maybe). That way it’s always upto date and will always be ready for you.

Edited on by Jaz007

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

Th3solution

@Jaz007 oh - I’ve always wondered how that works when you request from a PC to download something. Might have to try that.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Octane

lol. The stream is brilliant. They're straight up trolling, they're showing the same old demo they've shown for years, the one with the moving platform and the lava floor.

Anyway, Dreams beta coming tomorrow!

Octane

themcnoisy

@LieutenantFatman Good point. We can only guess but if Death Stranding was on PS5 that's reason enough for me to grab one. But other than that I'm not so sure.

The tech has come almost as far as I need it too. If we can have a better VR experience and 4k 60fps gaming on screen then I don't think I would ever need to upgrade again after the ps5.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

Its_badW0lf

PS5 - that will be a day one for me no matter what, hopefully it will be compatible with PS4 titles from the get go, with all the investment into live service games and all, makes no sense making you buy another version of the title.

You and what army?

PSN: its_badW0lf

WebHead

So I personally expect PS5 to be announced next year and released March 2020. Word has it it was planned to release next year as well but the system level/OS/Backend stuff is a bit behind schedule. Sony is teasing something big next year so it makes sense. Switch proved March can work. It will sell out anyway so launch earlier to refine the supply chain and focus on software bundles for thr holiday.

And before someone says it'll hurt their Q4 2019 sales, Switch and Xbox One X wave hi.

WebHead

PSN: JTPrime93

Jaz007

@WebHead Switch and Xbox One X wave? As opposed to them being outsold now? What wave?

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

BAMozzy

@WebHead Switch - yes but the Xbox One X launched November 2017 - around a year after the Pro and in time for the Christmas season.

I know its not 'essential' to release in time for Christmas - as the Switch proved but some of that was down to hardware/software not being ready to launch in time - the usual reason that consoles miss the pre-Christmas window.

I do find the public perception rather bizarre - Nov 2019 is too soon but Mar 2020 is OK - just 4 months, difference and likely to get most/all of the Nov 2019 games re-released for launch - we saw that with the PS4/XB1 too with games like Fifa, CoD, BF4, AC4:BF, Lego Marvel, Madden etc getting multiple releases for the old gen and then again for the different launch dates of the PS4 and XB1 versions.

Personally, I would prefer to buy a console before Christmas and buy the games once - not two generation versions of the same game. If I know the PS5 is launching in March, I think I would clear up my backlog instead of buying PS4 versions and get them in March with the PS5 instead...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

WebHead

@Jaz007 I meant as in say hi. What I mean is Scorpio(One X) and switch announcements didnt effect 2016 holiday sales for Xbox and Nintendo. Also tax return season i would say is probably an easier time to buy new hardware for many I would assume.

WebHead

PSN: JTPrime93

JJ2

@BAMozzy
All is fair enough. We are just more or less wild guessing here. What do you think of Xbox next gen console then? Wouldn't it makes sense that what works for Sony also applies to Ms considering only the hardware perspective? So why 2020 or 2019? (I'm personally thinking the software matters a lot for choosing a launch date but whatever) Not that I'm interested in Xbox but both consoles obviously are important for an overall picture.
I think a new Xbox will launch next year as a streaming machine. That s some more food for thoughts.
Also the media seems to push the idea the Xbox is set to dominate next gen which is a bit silly a assumption at this stage, not to say a suspicious stance.

Edited on by JJ2

JJ2

BAMozzy

@JJ2 Personally I feel MS is in more desperate need to release a follow up - that's coming from someone who bought a Project Scorpio edition X on day 1 (and still own my original XB1 with Kinect as that's how it was sold at the time and an Gears 4 XB1s). All you have to do is look at how the 'base' console(s) are coping with the current games and you will see that of the big 2, the XB1 looks like it will be the first that games will be 'impossible' to run at a 'reasonable' visual settings, at least 720p and 30fps. That 'maybe' good enough for some that don't want to invest in 'new' hardware yet but realistically, this generation has held back game development and the XB1 is struggling more than PS4.

Of course it could depend on whether MS would be willing to allow 3rd party games to release on just the X - the X becoming the 'new' base console effectively as it has a lot of the next gen features you could expect. It could be the '4k/30' entry level console with the 'nextbox' being the new 'high' end 4k/60 console - higher average res, double the frame rate and maybe having 'higher' visual settings too. It makes more sense to do that. It maybe that some games won't run on the X but with the 'resources' it currently has, its possible that they could drop res down to 1080-1440p to get games working - especially if they also can be 30fps on X but are 60fps on Nextbox. Either way, the current Base hardware is much more in need of being replaced and can't really drop much more to get them running. You could I guess start offering CB rendering - 2x540p (or 960x1080) to 'fake HD' but realistically, its showing its age more so therefore MS are more in need. Sony have run away with this gen, MS's E32013 left a sour taste too - even though they back tracked very quickly and very few elements that people hated actually made it to release - the final issue, Kinect, was gone from bundles within 6 months too. It could be a good idea to end this generation sooner where as Sony may want to drag their 'heels' a bit more to milk their success.

I can understand why the Media may well be thinking that MS will dominate, the massive amount of Money that they have to throw at winning, as well as the acquisition/formation of 7 new studios in the last 6months or so and basically given them a 'blank cheque' to make whatever games they want and expected to add more studio's, the fact they have Cloud Computing with Azure, the fact that MS have stated they are 'prioritising' gaming to be as 'big' as any other aspect of MS - not just a little 'side project' - so much so that its become important to the 'heads' of MS - not the 'Xbox' division but MS - hence all the 'massive' injection of money into gaming - Its easy to understand why the Media are thinking that MS will dominate. Whether it will sell as many consoles is a different matter because Xbox isn't 'just' the console, its just their 'console' device for gaming with Xbox on PC's as well as Tablets and Mobiles too. I know some still see 'PC' as a 'separate' entity but they want to amalgamate ALL their Windows 10/MS customers into one big user base - the hardware is immaterial so if you prefer the PC structure, so be it, want a console MS will build you one... As long as you have an MS account, with an MS profile, you can sign in and play your games on any MS powered device - In theory, this could open up 3rd Party Consoles too from HP, Acer etc too much like you can buy a MS Surface or HP, Acer equivalent - the important aspect is the 'network' - your profile, your games library all linked and the hardware is just the 'means' on which you play but you are ALL part of the MS network - just like you are all part of the Playstation Nation and your profile is what allows you to play on PS4, PS3, Vita and soon PS5. Gone is the day where you bought a console and anyone could play any game, now its all linked to your profile and you 'need' a profile to play - even Physical these days. You can go to ANY PS4 anywhere and Sign in with your GT and have access to your Digital library and all your Trophies etc and that I see will be the future - except with MS, that includes PC's because they pretty much all have MS OS and could be Tablets/Mobiles with cloud computing as long as they are powered by MS OS just like their console...

Sony 'could' do something similar I guess with their next console - sign into your PSN account on a Sony Xperia Mobile or Sony Bravia TV and play any of your games - add to your Trophies and carry on Playing on the go via cloud computing /streaming to mobile but I do think MS has the infrastructure in place now and the resources to make it work. Again, it may mean that they don't sell as many consoles - but as far as user base and software sales go, they could 'dominate' - although fanboys will still quote console sales as being representative of users but as far as numbers of gamers active on MS servers playing games as a unified user base, MS could very easily dominate.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

Ryall

I wonder how much the PS5 release will affect PS4 sales. It’s not unheard-of for the last generation of consoles to outsell the new one in its first year. I very much doubt the people who are buying the PS4 slim is at this point in its life cycle of the same people who will be pre-ordering the PS5.

Edited on by Ryall

Ryall

JJ2

@BAMozzy

'Its easy to understand why the Media are thinking that MS will dominate.'
Actually no. You also say 'fanboys will quote console sales' but these media very much mean consoles sales. I agree that Ms is going for a market bigger than consoles but we r talking about consoles.
The thing everything is much of a big fog right now (regarding consoles) and its really too early to build castles in the sky. Ms learned the hard way In. 2013.
The fact is Ms has never dominated the console (hardware) space so it's somehow bold to throw that sort of projection.
What I meant to ask you is if you think new gen Xbox would launch at the same time as PS5 since you think it could be next year apparently.

JJ2

BAMozzy

@Ryall The PS1 was made right up until less than a year before the PS3 launched and the PS2 right up until less than a year before the PS4. The PS3 has already ended in terms of manufacturing but it is still supported. This shows that Sony won't immediately abandon the PS4 when the PS5 launches and no doubt will get games launching on it too for at least a year or two. Obviously the amount of games releasing dropped as it became more difficult and less cost effective to port down but there is always a transitional period with Sony consoles. The PS4 could get a sizeable drop in price too and people may buy for the plethora of games it already has.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

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