Kinect and trying to stop people using second hand copies are what shot themselves in the foot initially...
The funny thing is, Sony has been fighting the sale of second hand games on multiple occasions (1st, 2nd, 3rd) and has been spying on users (link) before Microsoft attempted any of that. Luckily no one remembers any of that and Sony is a different, much more consumer-friendly company now. 😁
@judgmentarrows You can buy and play games on an Xbox the same way you can on a PlayStation, and games are still being released for the consoles for the foreseeable future. GamePass is optional, it has always been optional.
It's the same point why people have a PlayStation: for entertainment.
guys please throw your series console if you have one in the bin and get a ps5 at least sony cares about good will to their customers
Wouldn't it make more sense to sell or trade an Xbox series console rather than throwing it into the bin? Also those who already have one and enjoy it are not affected by the price hike. They continue playing as Xboxes basically play 90% of the same games as the PS5.
Personally I'd rather they just ripped off the band aid and departed with a little more dignity. Just go third-party and be done with it. We all know they could be massively successful doing that, but instead they just seem to want to humiliate themselves...
I agree that everyone would like more transparency regarding Microsoft's future gaming hardware strategy.
But I don't think it's that simple. Assuming Microsoft would "just ripped off the band aid" and announce the end of all Xbox hardware activities, what would really happen?
Players would panic and stop spending money on games and subscription services before they would get the chance to see what the next Xbox/PC hardware can do and if/how they can play their current game libraries on those next gen devices.
Developers would stop any development on Xbox versions of their games as they wouldn't see Xbox as a viable platform where the userbase is leaving.
Partners like AMD, Asus, Lenovo, MSI would question Microsoft's commitment to gaming, resulting in Microsoft having less influence and insights in future tech developments, which would negatively impact any DirectX development in Windows and Linux could gain a bigger share in PC gaming.
My only fear is what will be the price of a PS6 be, £550? 600? £700? Sony need to be smart on this and not be completely tone deft like what they did with the PS3.
The issue with the PS3 was that Sony wanted to sell expensive blu-ray player to the people, kind of like Microsoft wanted to sell Kinect cameras to Xbox gamers. While Sony lost a lot of money selling expensive blu-ray drives in PS3s, it paid off in the long run when it comes to physical media for movies and games for the following 20 years.
But in case of the PS6, Sony can charge whatever price they want, as it seems like noone will compete with them in the high-end console sector. I expected the PS6 (the high-end home console) to be around £800+, as it will offer a better hardware than the PS5 Pro which, apart from seasonal discounts, still costs £700 and hardware component price seem to become more expensive in the future.
While PS5's sales have been in line with PS4 will PS6's? And perhaps PS5 could have outsold PS4 launch aligned if they didn't publish on PC. We don't have enough data to tell but usually companies want to expand their market.
Yes, we don't have enough data, but I am sure PlayStation has enough data to make the right decisions. If consoles are subsidized and sold at loss then Sony/PlayStation doesn't profit from selling millions of consoles to PC players who would buy 1-2 first party exclusive games, if those user don't spend more money on PSN (on 3rd party games and subscriptions).
If it was me at Sony I would be watching this like a hawk and play it super-safe. It would be multiplayer Day 1 everywhere, single player at least 2 years of PlayStation exclusivity, and possibly never depending on what happens in the next 2-3+ years. I do think PC gaming is on the rise and a large part of that is almost all games are available on it.
I'm pretty sure Sony has some of the best people in the industry doing just that, watching this like a hawk and play it super-safe. Whatever they do it's well planned.
If Sony see Hybrids and handhelds are a threat to them keeping customers in their ecosystem, they will react by stopping ports to PC entirely. The comparatively tiny amount of money they make from PC Ports is not worth the risk of eroding their userbase.
Sony/PlayStation could pull out of the PC environment if they want. They could start making low-budget / high-profit games like Nintendo does.
But instead of thinking of hybrids/handhelds as a threat, they could see it as an opportunity to expand. Instead of thinking of PC ports as "risk of eroding the userbase" they could see it as an "opportunity to grow the PlayStation userbase".
The PC ports (and Xbox and Switch) might seem as a small amount compared to overall revenue, but they are 1/3 of PlayStation's first-party revenue. Making their games available on more platforms makes them less dependend on console economics and 3rd party content.
@themightyant I understand your fear of a decreasing brand value, but fact is that PlayStation has been publishing PlayStation games on PC for the past 5 years now and the brand is just as strong as before. There is no evidence of a decreased brand value, despite the Steam Deck and several other handheld PC gaming devices releasing in the mean time.
Do you really think anyone who's main platform is Steam/PC, will buy a PS5 and start buying all their 3rd party games on PSN, if PlayStation decides to make all their first party games exclusive to PS consoles? Or will they just not buy PlayStation games as those aren't available on Steam/PC? Yes, maybe some unsatisfied Xbox players will switch to PlayStation, but PC players are less likely to fully swith to PlayStation.
Releasing games on PC helps the PlayStation brand grow and expand beyond its box. Not releasing games on PC is basically money left on the table.
I thought launchers could actively detect the hardware they are running on, so would have thought it would be very easy, particularly with standardised hardware set ups. I would also have thought modders would only have a certain amount of ability to circumvent it.
Yes, launchers probaly can detect the hardware components, but if that information doesn't include anything that identifies it as "This is an Xbox", Sony would have to guess which hardware configuration (CPU, RAM, GPU, Windows version) is an Xbox and which one is not. And even if they do get it right, like I said, modders could develop an app to intercept the check and tell the launcher the device is something else. Or you can install Rancher desktop and run Windows in a virtual machine comtainer where the launcher doesn't have a clue which hardware it's running on.
@Rich33 Or PlayStation could just continue releasing games on PC (and PC handhelds) like they do now, without trying to prevent people from playing their games.
Apple and Google are competitors, but they offer their products on other platforms even though they both build the same devices (smartphone, tablets smart watches) and have competing app stores selling 3rd party apps.
The main threat to Sony's console market from the PC space at the moment is hybrid devices eg the next Xbox / steam machine. A Sony launcher could, I assume, be made to detect and not run on these standardised devices, thus removing this potential competition. They would have to be upfront about this of course.
How would a Sony PlayStation launcher on PC detect a hybrid device such as the Steam Machine or the next Xbox (considering that the next Xbox is an Xbox branded PC)?
Steam Machine might be easier to block, Sony just doesn't need to release the launcher on Linux.
But on Windows, if the next Xbox is telling the launcher that it's a Windows PC, what else would they use to block? AMD hardware components? PlayStation just announced a big partnership with AMD, AMD wouldn't approve that approach. Would they block all Windows based handhelds, like the Asus Rog Ally, Lenovo Legion Go and the MSI Claw?
Whatever security check Sony might consider implementing to stop the next Xbox from accessong it's games, modders will find a way around it in a few weeks if the next Xbox is a PC. That's the thing, Windows is an open platform, Sony cannot control what modders do on Windows.
Those who advocate for Sony to take the "Nintendo route of console exclusivity" actually mean that Sony will be forced to abandon AAA productions and low development costs in favor of making AA games like Stellar Blade or Astro Bot, which can be profitable even with moderate sales of only 2-3 million on PS5.
But that's the problem: Playstation 1st party studios need to develop "AAA" games if they want to showcase the PS5 as a true next gen console. Lower budget games like Astro Bot, Stellar Blade and even Returnal could run on a PS4 (minus the controller feauters). That doesn't help to promote the PS5.
A shame PushSquare left out the best part of the analytics report:
Alinea’s estimates highlight five standout titles leading Sony’s success:
Helldivers 2 – 12.7 million copies sold, generating $400 million. This co-op shooter has become Sony’s first true PC megahit, with 200,000 daily players and a fifth of its audience logging over 100 hours.
Horizon Zero Dawn – 4.5 million copies sold, earning $170 million. As Sony’s first major Steam release back in 2020, it benefited from pent-up demand and continues to sell steadily thanks to discounts.
God of War – 4.2 million copies sold, nearly $150 million in revenue. Its strong reputation and technical polish helped build trust among PC gamers.
Days Gone – 3.4 million copies sold, $108 million revenue. Despite mixed reception on console, its survival mechanics resonated with PC players.
Spider-Man Remastered – 2.7 million copies sold, $116 million revenue. The strength of the Spider-Man IP and technical features like ray tracing boosted its appeal.
In total, PlayStation-published games are estimated to have sold more than 43 million copies on Steam.
But does that include port costs and the split that Sony have to give to Arrowhead and ShiftUP, Sony were just the publisher for some games and won't be taking the full amount.
Alinea Analytics' report is about revenue, so it doesn't include porting costs, nor any share they would provide to 3rd parties. But even if PlayStation shares the revenue with a 3rd paty, like maybe ShiftUp, it's not much different from an internal 1st paty studio where Sony needs to cover the salaries and expenses of it's own developers who are working on their next projects after the PC launch.
The porting costs are fairly small with 1-3% or the PC revenue per title. Porting costs are around $ 1-3 million (form the Insomniac Games leak), but most PlayStation published games earn over $ 100 million on Steam. Of course Helldivers 2 being at the top with $ 400 million.
Firstly unless i'm missing something 30% of 1.5bn is 0.45bn so the actual figure for Sony would be just over 1bn in 5 years or an average of 200m a year.
Steam has a variable percentage of the share they take on games, here is from the official documentation:
A lot then depends on what the margins of these ports are. I would guess they are cheap to make but there will also be associated marketing costs too.
Hard to know if it has been worth it without a load of other information to be honest.
It's worth the effort. Like Yoshida Shuhei said, PC ports of PlayStation games is like printing money.
Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered port for PC costed $ 2.3 million according to the Insomniac Games leak. A year after its launch in 2022 the game has sold 1.5 million times on Steam and generated $ 52 million dollar in revenue. So by now it might have generated more revenue. There's hardly a marketing for the games before they launch on Steam. In most cases you only see a trailer.
@Northern_munkey they didn’t make COD an Xbox exclusive is because when they bought Activision, part of appeasing the regulators was they signed a contract to release COD on all consoles including Nintendo for the next ten years (at least).
So the real story is: why is COD not in Switch yet.
Microsoft never planned to make Call of Duty Xbox exclusive. It's too large and expensive to be exclusive just to 1 platform.
I assume that Activision wishes for COD to be on Switch 2, but there are technical difficulties like the lack of Switch 2 dev kits, COD games requiring 100-200 GB of space and the recent games requiring an online connection where the Switch 2 is more likely to be used offline.
@TrollOfWar probably not. It'd be a lot of work just for no one to buy them. Xbox gamers have been trained that games have no value and to never step outside of Gamepass
I mentioned Nintendo as well in my comment, where often certain games sell better on Switch than on PlayStation.
Good games sell well also on Xbox. On Xbox, Helldivers 2 sold 1.5 million copies, Battlefield 6 sold 2 million copies, Elden Ring sold 7.4 million copies. It's true that games on GamePass sell less on Xbox (just like ganes on PS Plus on PS5), but I don't think Sony would put their own games on GamePass, it wouldn't make sense.
good luck trying to convince those kid's parents on spending 800+ plus on it though. Especially in this economy.
Probably easier convincing parents of a $800 PC than a $600 gaming console and a $80 yearly online subscription. But what do I know, I only have a 13 year old nephew who desires getting a gaming PC, despite already having a PS5.
The point of this Steam Machine is to expand the SteamOS ecosystem and have more developers adopt it in their development process. It might be a threat to Windows for gaming in the long-run.
Console enthusiasts, especially on PlayStation will less likely need one, but I can see younger players (12+ year olds) being more interested in a Steam Machine than in an Xbox or PlayStation, as all the trendy games release on PC/Steam first and they don't need to pay for online gaming. Seeing all YouTubers and Twitch streamers play on PC already makes the platform more attractive to them. Kids can also justify the Steam Machine to their parents as a PC which they can use for productive school work.
PlayStation doesn't need to fear the Steam Machine, the PlayStation brand is stronger than ever. But who knows what the gaming landscape looks like in 10 years. 😉
I wonder which company that is which makes a revenue of "$3 billion a year"? Based on the List of largest video game companies by revenue I wonder if it's Take-Two, Bandai Namco or Ubi Soft? They all have some beloved classic games, yet no projects of remastering or re-releasing games (unlike Square Enix and even Activision). Embracer (in the same range of yearly revenue) did partner with Blaze Entertainment to release the old Tomb Raider and Legacy of Kain games on Evercade and Aspyr for the remasterson current platforms.
Well Take-Two's efforts of remastering the PS2 GTA trilogy was a failure.
sony potentially losing its users to the pc market is bad for its business in the long term. i.e. there is a cost to porting its games to pc in the sense sony will inevitably lose console customers for life (whether it was a pc user who considered buying a ps console but now doesn't need to, or a dual user who will no longer pick up a ps6 since owning a console and pc is now redundant).
@Rich33
It is still nothing compared to the risk of having their userbase eroded.
There is no evidence of a larger trend for the risk of PlayStation players switching to PC, as you are describing. PlayStation games are being released on PC for the past 5 years, yet PS5 sales numbers are in line with PS4 numbers. Even Sony in a shareholder meeting stated that they "cannot confirm any such trend, nor do they see it as a major risk". The fear is based on PlayStation fans not wanting to lose "their exclusives".
Sony doesn't benefit from PC players who buy a PS5 just to play 1-2 exclusive titles, as those players will continue buying other 3rd party games and subscribe to 3rd party subscriptions on PC storefronts. Plus I think that unlike in previous generations where console got cheaper, now PC players are less likely going to spend $ 500+ on a PS5 just to play a few games which they don't have on PC.
@UltimateOtaku91 That comment raises legitimate concerns from the perspective of a dedicated console enthusiast, and I understand that being a PlayStation fan and having and identity around that brand feels as "magical" as it feels "magical" to believe in Santa Clasu. But it rests on a fundamental misunderstanding of modern market dynamics and the actual financial impact of the PC strategy.
The idea that PC ports inherently weaken the PlayStation brand is a common misperception that fails to account for current market realities:
Financial Reality: New Money, Not Stolen Money: The revenue generated by PC sales is almost entirely new money that Sony would not have earned otherwise. The majority of PC gamers buying a game like God of War were never going to purchase a PS5 solely for that title. By selling to them, Sony creates a massive new, high-margin revenue stream that increases the total capital available to fund game development and studio acquisitions, directly refuting the idea of a loss in revenue.
Maximizing Investment Return: Modern AAA games cost upwards of $200 million to develop. Limiting that investment return to a single console platform for a finite window is inefficient. Releasing the game on PC years later maximizes the return on that massive development expenditure, effectively subsidizing the next generation of console exclusives.
The Microsoft Analogy is Misleading: Comparing PlayStation's selective, delayed PC strategy to Microsoft's Day One Game Pass model is a false equivalence. Microsoft's goal is to drive subscriptions to a low-margin service across all platforms. Sony's strategy is to drive full-price unit sales on a new, high-margin platform, while still reserving its biggest games as timed exclusives to incentivize PS5 purchases.
Record Profits with Current Startegy: Since the launch of the PS5 Sony has increased the releases of first party games on PC. Their financial reports show that it paid off, as this generation has been PlayStation's most profitable generation.
The reality is, the financial health of the PlayStation brand relies on growth, and in 2025, that growth is found in expanding beyond the console box. This expansion provides the financial muscle to keep the PS5 and future consoles relevant by ensuring they have the funding to develop world-class games that remain the launch platform and initial exclusive home of the biggest titles.
Unfortunately, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they stop putting their games onto PC - the extra cash is miniscule compared to their real worth in giving people a reason to move to / stay with their closed ecosystem.
Most PS5 user don't even play the exclusives, so their point is completely invalid. The "fans" are what, 5% or 10%?Everyone else they just don't care
I guess some hardcore fans secretly wish that PlayStation reduces their playerbase so they can feel more "special" about their brand choice when they are the only ones being able to play a game, while everyone else is excluded. And "exclusive games" helps them feel superior in "console war" debates in why their favorite console is better.
the pandemic boosted the disirability for ps5 hardware (as people spent more time indoors) while sony coasted and relied on 3rd party software. ps5 sales are not sustainable and are still trailing the ps4 by a few million (the decline is here already but guess what, sony will be saved yet again by gta 6 next year). there is just no way sony can repeat the ps5 generation with the ps6 and expect the same results. only the most naiive gamers without any analytical skills would consider the ps5 era noteworthy in any way and not a step down from everything that came before it. if you cannot see that sony has been complacent (and lucky) this generation, that is just your loss and nobody will be able to help you there.
That's a very strong and somewhat pessimistic take, but I think the core argument about Sony's sustainability completely misses the mark on their most significant strategic move this generation: the expansion to PC.
Releasing games on PC for a wider audience is not only more positive but also a more accurate reading of PlayStation's future strategy:
The PC Strategy is the Opposite of Complacency: The decision to bring acclaimed first-party titles like God of War, Horizon, and Spider-Man to PC is a calculated, forward-looking business strategy, not a sign of complacency or luck. The "decline" argument is refuted by the fact that Sony is actively seeking to expand its market reach beyond its dedicated console base.
New Revenue Streams Fund Future Exclusives: PC ports generate entirely new, high-margin revenue streams that were previously untapped. This extra income directly funds the massive budgets required for developing future console-exclusive blockbusters and the next generation of hardware (the PS6). Maximizing the financial return on their world-class IPs makes their business more sustainable, not less.
IP Expansion and Future-Proofing: Bringing games to PC is the best form of marketing. It introduces millions of new players to the quality of PlayStation's first-party titles. When the PS6 launches with a major new exclusive, those PC gamers are now highly incentivized to jump onboard and buy the console, effectively future-proofing the brand's success. It turns the PC platform into a massive, profitable marketing funnel for the console.
Outdated Console Wars Mindset: Your focus is locked on an outdated metric where a game leaving the console is a "loss." The reality is that maximizing the audience for their IP—be it on PS5, PS6, or PC—is the healthiest path for the brand. It benefits the consumer by offering more ways to play and ensures the long-term financial stability necessary to keep funding top-tier, ambitious development.
Sony’s success is no longer solely measured by how many PS5 consoles trail the PS4 (otherwise there would be no cross-gen releases on PS4); it’s measured by how many people are playing PlayStation IP globally. Embracing PC is a sign of a company adapting to the modern gaming landscape, which is a significant step up for both the business and for gamers who want access to great titles. More players equals a stronger ecosystem, and that is unequivocally better.
If everything comes into place, then we see an erosion of Sony's userbase, which will have the knock on effect of raising Sony's prices - subs/games/store/hardware, but this isn't going to happen overnight.
Only at this point does PC become a tangible threat - that's my opinion at least, coming from someone who regularly considers PC.
The prices for PlayStation hardware, games and subscriptions are already going up, but that's not related to the PC releases of PlayStation games.
Somehow I have the impression, you are looking for reasons why you want to stick with PlayStation rather than considering what is the best for you. I hope you'll be happy with your choice. 🙂
Miss me with that mobile slop, but if legions of fake “gamers” playing exclusively on cellphones can funnel cash into Sony that feeds our Ghost of Yoteis, Returnals, timed exclusives etc than I’m behind this mobile push 100%.
That's like Xbox fans saying that they are fine with Microsoft buying up Call of Duty as long as the micro-transactions revenue helps fund smaller games like Hi-Fi Rush, Crash Bandicoot and Everwild.
If those mobile games are successful, meaning that they have a much higher return of investment than traditional games, then I think Sony will invest more in growing the mobile business.
1. ps5 as a console has lost its perceived value from core gamers. as true exclusives have become more uncommon and outright rare, the value of the ps5 has diminished. this does not help sony sell consoles. many people claim the ps5 has been an utter disappointment — it has — the lack of exclusives has only made this argument stronger.
The opinion of the vocal hard-core PlayStation fans you find here on PushSquare, who think that "PS5 as a console has lost its perceived value" due to less exclusives, isn't the same as the general opinion of the casual PlayStation playerbase, who doesn't care that those 1st party PlayStation games are also released on other platforms. The PS5 is matching the sales numbers of the PS4 despite less exclusives, despite console price increases and despite people on PushSquare saying that in general the PS4 generation was better regarding the quality of 1st party PlayStation games.
Fact: Sony is selling just as many PS5 consoles as they did with PS4, at higher prices with less exclusives.
The only reason I could think of why Sony would reduce their game releases on Steam is if they are planing to release their own PC store/launcher with "cross-buy". They've confirmed several times that they are satisfied with PC sales and like former PlayStation CEO Yoshida Shuhei said, "releasing on PC is like printing money". And PlayStation is hiring people for multi-platform releases.
@Blaze215 The thing is, PS5 units sells well in the rest of the world. People seemingly are willing to pay higher prices for PS5s. Sony wants to increase the sold units of PS5 Japan, where currently the numbers aren't there where Sony would like.
@SeaDaVie Well, traditionally consoles prices have been subsidized in US and Western Europe, and usually over the span of a generation component & production costs would decline, which resulted in big price reductions in past console generations. I'm not familiar with the buying habits of Japanese players, but I guess Sony sees how many games Nintendo and other publishers are selling in Japan and they want a bigger share of the pie.
I think Sony doesn't need to further subsidize the price of the PS5 in the West (Europe and US), because the PS5 is already selling damn well. Consumers have shown that they are willing to pay the current prices and more (remember the scalper prices at launch?) and Xbox as a console isn't competing anymore. In Japan though Nintendo is dominating the market.
It's also unclear to the public how much a PS5 truly costs to manufacture. Sony has said shortly PS5 launch that their consoles are sold at a profit and still released several revised versions with "cheaper" internal components, while Xbox admitted a subsidized loss of around $200 per Xbox Series X console.
The biggest issue I have with this is that there are plenty of third world countries in the world, and none of them get special subsidised consoles. A lot of the time they don't even get proper regional pricing in software, and that' can be discounted without incurring a loss.
I guess it's because most of the players in those "third world" countries cannot afford the expensive games and definitely won't subscribe to PS Plus. So in that case Sony wouldn't make their money back on the subsidized consoles if the playerbase only bought 1-2 games and are mostly playing free-to-play games like Fortnite and COD Warzone.
But, I can't see how a unique region locked SKU is going to be much cheaper to manufacture, so they are doing this via subsidising.
If it were cheaper to make, why aren't they doing a cheaper English only variant for UK/US.
It's being subsidized in Japan. They aren't cheaper to make (probably it adds costs as they now need to manufacture an additional SKU and test the devices).
Call it a "strategic investment", Sony invest money to get the Japanese playerbase to grow and hopefully they get a return of the investment via sold games, subscriptions from the players and increased support from Japanese developers.
It's not much different from the case where Sony raised the prices of the PS5 in Europe and Asia due to the US tariffs, but kept the price the same in the US.
@StrickenBiged Sony/PlayStation doesn't save any costs by "region locking" the PS5 to Japan. They might be losing money on this. But the business strategy is to get more people to buy their console in Japan, by losing some money. It might help them also improve the PlayStation brand with developers if the Japanese userbase is bigger.
What they want to avoid though is those cheaper consoles being sold outside of Japan. That's what the "region lock" is for. I guess it's not a true region lock in a traditional sense where only games from that region would work on the console.
@Northern_munkey I got a Thrustmaster T150 and played Project CARS for many dozens of hours. I had to adjust the steering wheel settings for the game to feel good, but you can find many decent setups online.
I only played a few rounds of GT7 on a friend's Logitech G29, but it didn't feel as good as Project CARS on my setup.
@Drax007 It's unrealistic for any new indie devloper studio to get the funding and technical support Ployphony Digital gets for the Gran Turismo series (or Turn 10 used to get for Forza Motorsport), to be on par with GT7. These games don't compete directly with GT7, they try to find their own niche and compete with games like iRacing, Assetto Corsa and the now discontinued Project CARS series. Those games have less emphasis on visual presentation and more focus on accurate car physics, tracks and vehicles.
It’s not as performant as it could be with a wheel, but that could be down to the peripheral used for review (Logitech G920).
Usually you need to adjust the wheel settings for racing simulations to your preference, as each wheel behaves differently and each player has different force feedback preference. Without a good force feedback racing wheel support this game will have no chance as an eSports game. Even Gran Turismo competitions take place with racing wheels.
The review is also missing some important details like how many cars there are (currently only 17), how many racing tracks (only 13) which car categories (GT3, TCR, hypercars & prototypes). In comparison Gran Turismo 7 currently has 551 cars and 39 tracks, Assetto Corsa Competizione has 53 cars and 24 tracks (13 of those are in DLC packs).
Can't believe they rejected Tencents take, but agreed to a mobile mmo.
@Max_the_German
The gameplay looks so interchangeable, it's no wonder Sony is afraid of X. Tencent knows exactly how to build and operate successful MMOs. Definitely an interesting competition!
As it's often the case with IT projects, I wouldn't be surprised if PlayStation approaches both Tencent and NCSoft to pitch them a mobile live-service MMO for Horizon and while both built a working demo, NCSoft won the contract. Tencent might have decided to go on with the project on their own and publish it under a different name.
Prompting Fury from PS5 Fans
...
“A new PlayStation game not coming to PlayStation, and the gameplay is actual fire,” one fan wrote on X (or Twitter). “Please bring this to PS5.”
The hot fury of the PS5 fanbase is burning strong here. 🔥 Never change PushSquare. 😄
With Marvel Tokon being a live-service competitive fighting game, what are the chances of this game releasing on Switch 2 and Xbox a few months after the initial release?
Comments 465
Re: You Can Buy a Fully-Fledged PS5 for the Same Price as a Less Powerful Xbox Series S Right Now
@omadeli
The funny thing is, Sony has been fighting the sale of second hand games on multiple occasions (1st, 2nd, 3rd) and has been spying on users (link) before Microsoft attempted any of that. Luckily no one remembers any of that and Sony is a different, much more consumer-friendly company now. 😁
Re: You Can Buy a Fully-Fledged PS5 for the Same Price as a Less Powerful Xbox Series S Right Now
@judgmentarrows You can buy and play games on an Xbox the same way you can on a PlayStation, and games are still being released for the consoles for the foreseeable future. GamePass is optional, it has always been optional.
It's the same point why people have a PlayStation: for entertainment.
Re: You Can Buy a Fully-Fledged PS5 for the Same Price as a Less Powerful Xbox Series S Right Now
@judgmentarrows
Wouldn't it make more sense to sell or trade an Xbox series console rather than throwing it into the bin? Also those who already have one and enjoy it are not affected by the price hike. They continue playing as Xboxes basically play 90% of the same games as the PS5.
Re: You Can Buy a Fully-Fledged PS5 for the Same Price as a Less Powerful Xbox Series S Right Now
@Fiendish-Beaver
I agree that everyone would like more transparency regarding Microsoft's future gaming hardware strategy.
But I don't think it's that simple. Assuming Microsoft would "just ripped off the band aid" and announce the end of all Xbox hardware activities, what would really happen?
Players would panic and stop spending money on games and subscription services before they would get the chance to see what the next Xbox/PC hardware can do and if/how they can play their current game libraries on those next gen devices.
Developers would stop any development on Xbox versions of their games as they wouldn't see Xbox as a viable platform where the userbase is leaving.
Partners like AMD, Asus, Lenovo, MSI would question Microsoft's commitment to gaming, resulting in Microsoft having less influence and insights in future tech developments, which would negatively impact any DirectX development in Windows and Linux could gain a bigger share in PC gaming.
Re: You Can Buy a Fully-Fledged PS5 for the Same Price as a Less Powerful Xbox Series S Right Now
@Oram77
The issue with the PS3 was that Sony wanted to sell expensive blu-ray player to the people, kind of like Microsoft wanted to sell Kinect cameras to Xbox gamers. While Sony lost a lot of money selling expensive blu-ray drives in PS3s, it paid off in the long run when it comes to physical media for movies and games for the following 20 years.
But in case of the PS6, Sony can charge whatever price they want, as it seems like noone will compete with them in the high-end console sector. I expected the PS6 (the high-end home console) to be around £800+, as it will offer a better hardware than the PS5 Pro which, apart from seasonal discounts, still costs £700 and hardware component price seem to become more expensive in the future.
Re: You Can Buy a Fully-Fledged PS5 for the Same Price as a Less Powerful Xbox Series S Right Now
@Megabeenz What marketing team? Didn't they get laid off recently?
I guess, at this point Microsoft doesn't care anymore where you play their games, as long as you buy their games.
Re: Sony Estimated to Have Made $1.5 Billion from Steam, But the Novelty Is Wearing Off
@themightyant
Yes, we don't have enough data, but I am sure PlayStation has enough data to make the right decisions. If consoles are subsidized and sold at loss then Sony/PlayStation doesn't profit from selling millions of consoles to PC players who would buy 1-2 first party exclusive games, if those user don't spend more money on PSN (on 3rd party games and subscriptions).
I'm pretty sure Sony has some of the best people in the industry doing just that, watching this like a hawk and play it super-safe. Whatever they do it's well planned.
Re: Sony Estimated to Have Made $1.5 Billion from Steam, But the Novelty Is Wearing Off
@Rich33
Sony/PlayStation could pull out of the PC environment if they want. They could start making low-budget / high-profit games like Nintendo does.
But instead of thinking of hybrids/handhelds as a threat, they could see it as an opportunity to expand. Instead of thinking of PC ports as "risk of eroding the userbase" they could see it as an "opportunity to grow the PlayStation userbase".
The PC ports (and Xbox and Switch) might seem as a small amount compared to overall revenue, but they are 1/3 of PlayStation's first-party revenue. Making their games available on more platforms makes them less dependend on console economics and 3rd party content.
Re: Sony Estimated to Have Made $1.5 Billion from Steam, But the Novelty Is Wearing Off
@themightyant I understand your fear of a decreasing brand value, but fact is that PlayStation has been publishing PlayStation games on PC for the past 5 years now and the brand is just as strong as before. There is no evidence of a decreased brand value, despite the Steam Deck and several other handheld PC gaming devices releasing in the mean time.
Do you really think anyone who's main platform is Steam/PC, will buy a PS5 and start buying all their 3rd party games on PSN, if PlayStation decides to make all their first party games exclusive to PS consoles? Or will they just not buy PlayStation games as those aren't available on Steam/PC? Yes, maybe some unsatisfied Xbox players will switch to PlayStation, but PC players are less likely to fully swith to PlayStation.
Releasing games on PC helps the PlayStation brand grow and expand beyond its box. Not releasing games on PC is basically money left on the table.
Re: Stellar Blade Is Sony's Most Successful Single-Player PC Game to Date, Says Shift Up
Congrats to ShiftUp and PlayStation for their success on PC.
Re: Sony Estimated to Have Made $1.5 Billion from Steam, But the Novelty Is Wearing Off
@Rich33
Yes, launchers probaly can detect the hardware components, but if that information doesn't include anything that identifies it as "This is an Xbox", Sony would have to guess which hardware configuration (CPU, RAM, GPU, Windows version) is an Xbox and which one is not. And even if they do get it right, like I said, modders could develop an app to intercept the check and tell the launcher the device is something else. Or you can install Rancher desktop and run Windows in a virtual machine comtainer where the launcher doesn't have a clue which hardware it's running on.
Re: Sony Estimated to Have Made $1.5 Billion from Steam, But the Novelty Is Wearing Off
@Rich33 Or PlayStation could just continue releasing games on PC (and PC handhelds) like they do now, without trying to prevent people from playing their games.
Apple and Google are competitors, but they offer their products on other platforms even though they both build the same devices (smartphone, tablets smart watches) and have competing app stores selling 3rd party apps.
Re: Xbox Devs 'Thrilled' to Be Bringing Their Games to PS5
@Nei Hopefully one day they can do it. 🙂
Re: Sony Estimated to Have Made $1.5 Billion from Steam, But the Novelty Is Wearing Off
@Rich33
How would a Sony PlayStation launcher on PC detect a hybrid device such as the Steam Machine or the next Xbox (considering that the next Xbox is an Xbox branded PC)?
Steam Machine might be easier to block, Sony just doesn't need to release the launcher on Linux.
But on Windows, if the next Xbox is telling the launcher that it's a Windows PC, what else would they use to block? AMD hardware components? PlayStation just announced a big partnership with AMD, AMD wouldn't approve that approach. Would they block all Windows based handhelds, like the Asus Rog Ally, Lenovo Legion Go and the MSI Claw?
Whatever security check Sony might consider implementing to stop the next Xbox from accessong it's games, modders will find a way around it in a few weeks if the next Xbox is a PC. That's the thing, Windows is an open platform, Sony cannot control what modders do on Windows.
Re: Sony Estimated to Have Made $1.5 Billion from Steam, But the Novelty Is Wearing Off
@Striker21
But that's the problem: Playstation 1st party studios need to develop "AAA" games if they want to showcase the PS5 as a true next gen console. Lower budget games like Astro Bot, Stellar Blade and even Returnal could run on a PS4 (minus the controller feauters). That doesn't help to promote the PS5.
Re: Sony Estimated to Have Made $1.5 Billion from Steam, But the Novelty Is Wearing Off
A shame PushSquare left out the best part of the analytics report:
Link: https://www.gamingamigos.com/post/playstation-games-steam-1-2b
Porting one of those games to Steam/PC costs around $ 1-3 million. That's a small investment for a large return.
Re: Sony Estimated to Have Made $1.5 Billion from Steam, But the Novelty Is Wearing Off
@UltimateOtaku91
Alinea Analytics' report is about revenue, so it doesn't include porting costs, nor any share they would provide to 3rd parties. But even if PlayStation shares the revenue with a 3rd paty, like maybe ShiftUp, it's not much different from an internal 1st paty studio where Sony needs to cover the salaries and expenses of it's own developers who are working on their next projects after the PC launch.
The porting costs are fairly small with 1-3% or the PC revenue per title. Porting costs are around $ 1-3 million (form the Insomniac Games leak), but most PlayStation published games earn over $ 100 million on Steam. Of course Helldivers 2 being at the top with $ 400 million.
Re: Sony Estimated to Have Made $1.5 Billion from Steam, But the Novelty Is Wearing Off
@Medic_alert
Steam has a variable percentage of the share they take on games, here is from the official documentation:
"...when a game makes over $10 million on Steam, the revenue share for that application will adjust to 75%/25% on earnings beyond $10M. At $50 million, the revenue share will adjust to 80%/20% on earnings beyond $50M."
Link: https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks/announcements/detail/1697191267930157838
It's worth the effort. Like Yoshida Shuhei said, PC ports of PlayStation games is like printing money.
Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered port for PC costed $ 2.3 million according to the Insomniac Games leak. A year after its launch in 2022 the game has sold 1.5 million times on Steam and generated $ 52 million dollar in revenue. So by now it might have generated more revenue. There's hardly a marketing for the games before they launch on Steam. In most cases you only see a trailer.
Re: Xbox Devs 'Thrilled' to Be Bringing Their Games to PS5
@Kienda
Microsoft never planned to make Call of Duty Xbox exclusive. It's too large and expensive to be exclusive just to 1 platform.
I assume that Activision wishes for COD to be on Switch 2, but there are technical difficulties like the lack of Switch 2 dev kits, COD games requiring 100-200 GB of space and the recent games requiring an online connection where the Switch 2 is more likely to be used offline.
Re: Xbox Devs 'Thrilled' to Be Bringing Their Games to PS5
@AgentMantis
I mentioned Nintendo as well in my comment, where often certain games sell better on Switch than on PlayStation.
Good games sell well also on Xbox. On Xbox, Helldivers 2 sold 1.5 million copies, Battlefield 6 sold 2 million copies, Elden Ring sold 7.4 million copies. It's true that games on GamePass sell less on Xbox (just like ganes on PS Plus on PS5), but I don't think Sony would put their own games on GamePass, it wouldn't make sense.
Re: Xbox Devs 'Thrilled' to Be Bringing Their Games to PS5
I bet PlayStation devs would be just as "thrilled" to bring their games to other platforms, including Nintendo and Xbox.
Every developer wishes for their game to be played by as many people as possible, no matter which platform.
Re: Sony Estimated to Have Made $1.5 Billion from Steam, But the Novelty Is Wearing Off
Yes, but how much of that revenue was form first-party games? Estimates are that around 30% of PlayStation's first-party game revenue comes from PC storefronts.
Re: Valve Won't Subsidise Steam Machine, Expected to Be Pricier Than More Powerful PS5
@Americansamurai1
Probably easier convincing parents of a $800 PC than a $600 gaming console and a $80 yearly online subscription. But what do I know, I only have a 13 year old nephew who desires getting a gaming PC, despite already having a PS5.
Re: Valve Won't Subsidise Steam Machine, Expected to Be Pricier Than More Powerful PS5
The point of this Steam Machine is to expand the SteamOS ecosystem and have more developers adopt it in their development process. It might be a threat to Windows for gaming in the long-run.
Console enthusiasts, especially on PlayStation will less likely need one, but I can see younger players (12+ year olds) being more interested in a Steam Machine than in an Xbox or PlayStation, as all the trendy games release on PC/Steam first and they don't need to pay for online gaming. Seeing all YouTubers and Twitch streamers play on PC already makes the platform more attractive to them. Kids can also justify the Steam Machine to their parents as a PC which they can use for productive school work.
PlayStation doesn't need to fear the Steam Machine, the PlayStation brand is stronger than ever. But who knows what the gaming landscape looks like in 10 years. 😉
Re: Quick Thinking from Sony Should Shield PS5 from RAM Shortages for Now
I'm happy that Sony will not increase the console prices with everyone else, just to increase profits.
Re: Talking Point: What Are You Playing This Weekend? - Issue 608
The Adventures of Rad Gravity on Evercade
Re: Returnal's Influence Expands with PS5 Roguelite Shooter ARMATUS
If PlayStation won't release Returnal for Switch 2 then someone else will... under a different name. 😄
Re: 'Financial Viability Is a Big Deal': Emulation Studio on Why More Retro Games Aren't Coming to PS Plus Premium
I wonder which company that is which makes a revenue of "$3 billion a year"? Based on the List of largest video game companies by revenue I wonder if it's Take-Two, Bandai Namco or Ubi Soft? They all have some beloved classic games, yet no projects of remastering or re-releasing games (unlike Square Enix and even Activision). Embracer (in the same range of yearly revenue) did partner with Blaze Entertainment to release the old Tomb Raider and Legacy of Kain games on Evercade and Aspyr for the remasterson current platforms.
Well Take-Two's efforts of remastering the PS2 GTA trilogy was a failure.
Re: 'Very Vague' Rumour Claims Sony May Scale Back PC Ports of PS5 Games
@Porco
@Rich33
There is no evidence of a larger trend for the risk of PlayStation players switching to PC, as you are describing. PlayStation games are being released on PC for the past 5 years, yet PS5 sales numbers are in line with PS4 numbers. Even Sony in a shareholder meeting stated that they "cannot confirm any such trend, nor do they see it as a major risk". The fear is based on PlayStation fans not wanting to lose "their exclusives".
Sony doesn't benefit from PC players who buy a PS5 just to play 1-2 exclusive titles, as those players will continue buying other 3rd party games and subscribe to 3rd party subscriptions on PC storefronts. Plus I think that unlike in previous generations where console got cheaper, now PC players are less likely going to spend $ 500+ on a PS5 just to play a few games which they don't have on PC.
Re: 'Very Vague' Rumour Claims Sony May Scale Back PC Ports of PS5 Games
@UltimateOtaku91 That comment raises legitimate concerns from the perspective of a dedicated console enthusiast, and I understand that being a PlayStation fan and having and identity around that brand feels as "magical" as it feels "magical" to believe in Santa Clasu. But it rests on a fundamental misunderstanding of modern market dynamics and the actual financial impact of the PC strategy.
The idea that PC ports inherently weaken the PlayStation brand is a common misperception that fails to account for current market realities:
The reality is, the financial health of the PlayStation brand relies on growth, and in 2025, that growth is found in expanding beyond the console box. This expansion provides the financial muscle to keep the PS5 and future consoles relevant by ensuring they have the funding to develop world-class games that remain the launch platform and initial exclusive home of the biggest titles.
Re: 'Very Vague' Rumour Claims Sony May Scale Back PC Ports of PS5 Games
@Rich33
Between fiscal years 2022 and 2024, sales of PlayStation titles on PC and other platforms might have grown from less than a fifth to almost a third ($ 830 millions) of total first-party PlayStation game revenue. I wouldn't call that "minuscule" and hard to see PlayStation give up on 1/3 of their first party revenue, just to attract a few more players to PlayStation consoles.
Re: 'Very Vague' Rumour Claims Sony May Scale Back PC Ports of PS5 Games
@trestan
I guess some hardcore fans secretly wish that PlayStation reduces their playerbase so they can feel more "special" about their brand choice when they are the only ones being able to play a game, while everyone else is excluded. And "exclusive games" helps them feel superior in "console war" debates in why their favorite console is better.
Re: 'Very Vague' Rumour Claims Sony May Scale Back PC Ports of PS5 Games
@Porco
That's a very strong and somewhat pessimistic take, but I think the core argument about Sony's sustainability completely misses the mark on their most significant strategic move this generation: the expansion to PC.
Releasing games on PC for a wider audience is not only more positive but also a more accurate reading of PlayStation's future strategy:
Sony’s success is no longer solely measured by how many PS5 consoles trail the PS4 (otherwise there would be no cross-gen releases on PS4); it’s measured by how many people are playing PlayStation IP globally. Embracing PC is a sign of a company adapting to the modern gaming landscape, which is a significant step up for both the business and for gamers who want access to great titles. More players equals a stronger ecosystem, and that is unequivocally better.
Re: 'Very Vague' Rumour Claims Sony May Scale Back PC Ports of PS5 Games
@Rich33
The prices for PlayStation hardware, games and subscriptions are already going up, but that's not related to the PC releases of PlayStation games.
Somehow I have the impression, you are looking for reasons why you want to stick with PlayStation rather than considering what is the best for you. I hope you'll be happy with your choice. 🙂
Re: Talking Point: Will PlayStation's Mobile Push Be a Success or a Flop?
@Balaam_
That's like Xbox fans saying that they are fine with Microsoft buying up Call of Duty as long as the micro-transactions revenue helps fund smaller games like Hi-Fi Rush, Crash Bandicoot and Everwild.
If those mobile games are successful, meaning that they have a much higher return of investment than traditional games, then I think Sony will invest more in growing the mobile business.
Re: 'Very Vague' Rumour Claims Sony May Scale Back PC Ports of PS5 Games
@Porco
The opinion of the vocal hard-core PlayStation fans you find here on PushSquare, who think that "PS5 as a console has lost its perceived value" due to less exclusives, isn't the same as the general opinion of the casual PlayStation playerbase, who doesn't care that those 1st party PlayStation games are also released on other platforms. The PS5 is matching the sales numbers of the PS4 despite less exclusives, despite console price increases and despite people on PushSquare saying that in general the PS4 generation was better regarding the quality of 1st party PlayStation games.
Fact: Sony is selling just as many PS5 consoles as they did with PS4, at higher prices with less exclusives.
Re: 'Very Vague' Rumour Claims Sony May Scale Back PC Ports of PS5 Games
@Max_the_German But we were told that PC isn't a 'major risk' to PlayStation's console business. 😁
Re: 'Very Vague' Rumour Claims Sony May Scale Back PC Ports of PS5 Games
The only reason I could think of why Sony would reduce their game releases on Steam is if they are planing to release their own PC store/launcher with "cross-buy". They've confirmed several times that they are satisfied with PC sales and like former PlayStation CEO Yoshida Shuhei said, "releasing on PC is like printing money". And PlayStation is hiring people for multi-platform releases.
Re: Here's Why Sony Is Making a Japan-Specific PS5 Console
@Blaze215 The thing is, PS5 units sells well in the rest of the world. People seemingly are willing to pay higher prices for PS5s. Sony wants to increase the sold units of PS5 Japan, where currently the numbers aren't there where Sony would like.
Re: Here's Why Sony Is Making a Japan-Specific PS5 Console
@SeaDaVie Well, traditionally consoles prices have been subsidized in US and Western Europe, and usually over the span of a generation component & production costs would decline, which resulted in big price reductions in past console generations. I'm not familiar with the buying habits of Japanese players, but I guess Sony sees how many games Nintendo and other publishers are selling in Japan and they want a bigger share of the pie.
I think Sony doesn't need to further subsidize the price of the PS5 in the West (Europe and US), because the PS5 is already selling damn well. Consumers have shown that they are willing to pay the current prices and more (remember the scalper prices at launch?) and Xbox as a console isn't competing anymore. In Japan though Nintendo is dominating the market.
It's also unclear to the public how much a PS5 truly costs to manufacture. Sony has said shortly PS5 launch that their consoles are sold at a profit and still released several revised versions with "cheaper" internal components, while Xbox admitted a subsidized loss of around $200 per Xbox Series X console.
Re: Here's Why Sony Is Making a Japan-Specific PS5 Console
@SeaDaVie
I guess it's because most of the players in those "third world" countries cannot afford the expensive games and definitely won't subscribe to PS Plus. So in that case Sony wouldn't make their money back on the subsidized consoles if the playerbase only bought 1-2 games and are mostly playing free-to-play games like Fortnite and COD Warzone.
Re: Here's Why Sony Is Making a Japan-Specific PS5 Console
@Rich33
It's being subsidized in Japan. They aren't cheaper to make (probably it adds costs as they now need to manufacture an additional SKU and test the devices).
Call it a "strategic investment", Sony invest money to get the Japanese playerbase to grow and hopefully they get a return of the investment via sold games, subscriptions from the players and increased support from Japanese developers.
It's not much different from the case where Sony raised the prices of the PS5 in Europe and Asia due to the US tariffs, but kept the price the same in the US.
Re: Here's Why Sony Is Making a Japan-Specific PS5 Console
@StrickenBiged Sony/PlayStation doesn't save any costs by "region locking" the PS5 to Japan. They might be losing money on this. But the business strategy is to get more people to buy their console in Japan, by losing some money. It might help them also improve the PlayStation brand with developers if the Japanese userbase is bigger.
What they want to avoid though is those cheaper consoles being sold outside of Japan. That's what the "region lock" is for. I guess it's not a true region lock in a traditional sense where only games from that region would work on the console.
Re: Mini Review: Rennsport (PS5) - A Sim Racer That Just Can't Match the Competition
@Northern_munkey I got a Thrustmaster T150 and played Project CARS for many dozens of hours. I had to adjust the steering wheel settings for the game to feel good, but you can find many decent setups online.
I only played a few rounds of GT7 on a friend's Logitech G29, but it didn't feel as good as Project CARS on my setup.
Re: Mini Review: Rennsport (PS5) - A Sim Racer That Just Can't Match the Competition
@Drax007 It's unrealistic for any new indie devloper studio to get the funding and technical support Ployphony Digital gets for the Gran Turismo series (or Turn 10 used to get for Forza Motorsport), to be on par with GT7. These games don't compete directly with GT7, they try to find their own niche and compete with games like iRacing, Assetto Corsa and the now discontinued Project CARS series. Those games have less emphasis on visual presentation and more focus on accurate car physics, tracks and vehicles.
Re: Mini Review: Rennsport (PS5) - A Sim Racer That Just Can't Match the Competition
Usually you need to adjust the wheel settings for racing simulations to your preference, as each wheel behaves differently and each player has different force feedback preference. Without a good force feedback racing wheel support this game will have no chance as an eSports game. Even Gran Turismo competitions take place with racing wheels.
The review is also missing some important details like how many cars there are (currently only 17), how many racing tracks (only 13) which car categories (GT3, TCR, hypercars & prototypes). In comparison Gran Turismo 7 currently has 551 cars and 39 tracks, Assetto Corsa Competizione has 53 cars and 24 tracks (13 of those are in DLC packs).
Re: The Next Horizon Game Is an MMO for Mobile and PC, Prompting Fury from PS5 Fans
@CutchuSlow
@Max_the_German
As it's often the case with IT projects, I wouldn't be surprised if PlayStation approaches both Tencent and NCSoft to pitch them a mobile live-service MMO for Horizon and while both built a working demo, NCSoft won the contract. Tencent might have decided to go on with the project on their own and publish it under a different name.
Re: The Next Horizon Game Is an MMO for Mobile and PC, Prompting Fury from PS5 Fans
The hot fury of the PS5 fanbase is burning strong here. 🔥 Never change PushSquare. 😄
Re: PS5's Biggest Game Has Not Released Yet, PlayStation Boss Teases
Marathon? Just joking, it's definitely GTA6.
Re: No New Characters Revealed for Marvel Tokon, PS5 Beta Returns in December
With Marvel Tokon being a live-service competitive fighting game, what are the chances of this game releasing on Switch 2 and Xbox a few months after the initial release?