@EfYI Early Access is probably only "bad" part about this, I agree. It's honestly so bad it's hilarious. Rest of the package is solid.
If you are crying that The Crew Motorfest is cheaper, then buy The Crew Motorfest. Plain and simple. Forza Horizon 5 costs same amount of money on PS Store as it cost on Xbox Store. So I really don't get the complaints. And since Forza Horizon 5 is charting higher then The Crew Motorfest with discount, it's pretty clear where users chose to spend their money lol.
I will repeat myself. I was reading for more than 5 years that PS users don't need first-party games day one in subscription because they "want to support the devs and quality." And now when they have chance to do exactly that, they are complaining about price. Comedy gold.
Btw. new Forza is pretty much given. That's why Playground Games has "Fable team" and "Forza team." And PS5 release won't change anything about it. It's just "free money" for Microsoft. Game sold est. 7 million copies on PC alone. And has 44 million users .
@EfYI Mate, have you checked how much Gran Turismo 7 cost on PS Store? Since it's game of similar age as Forza Horizon 5.
And what do you think GT7 would have cost on Xbox, if Sony decided to make an Xbox port now?
There are no apologists. FH5 is best sim-cade racer on the market with humongous amount of additional content that was provided for free after launch. Game is coming on PS5 with new update also. Basically only competition is The Crew Motorfest. Microsoft would be dumb to price it lower. Especially when there is a cheaper way to play it - through Game Pass.
It's hilarious to read PS fans to talk about, how they are willing to pay for quality games (instead of those pesky Xbox fans who are not buying games, only playing them through Game Pass). And now when they have ability to buy 92MC rated racing game, they are complaining.
Lol. Microsoft is not making physical version of almost 4 years old game. Get real. They outsourced development of port to Panic Button. They don't want to do noting more than what is absolute necessity and rake money.
They are avoiding making physical version of games like plague even on Xbox. Games like Avowed, Hellblade 2 don't have one and probably only reason games like Starfield, Indiana Jones, COD and DOOM will have one is because they are still technically Bethesda/ABK.
You proved my point that I need to wait for Sony to drop the price of PS Plus to get proper discount and you present it as some kind of win?
You are basically confirming my argument. Meanwhile, I can buy 1 year of Game Pass Ultimate on Shopto for 142€ which is pretty huge difference to official price on Xbox Store (216€ per year). And I can buy that right know despite the fact that Xbox doesn't have any discount on their official store. It means that I can right now buy Cyberpunk 2077 Ultimate Edition Xbox digital key for 42€ instead of paying 79,99€ on Xbox Store.
And that's entire point. Fighting against proper competition even in digital space is dumb. Even people bitch and moan against Steam's prices you can buy Steam keys in multiple shops for way cheaper. Which benefits you as a customer. I really don't understand why would anybody be against that.
@ChrisDeku But that's a weird argument. If I'm buying GPU, that GPU has MSRP. But if only Nvidia sold those GPUs directly, I would be at a mercy of them having a sale. But since many shops are selling GPUs, there is actual competition and some shops are going lower than official MSRP, which saves me some money.
If I want to buy PS Plus cheaper (for example), I need to pay full price wait for Sony to drop prices of PS Plus two-three times per year. But if they sold PS Plus memberships through digital codes, I would be able to save more and more often like I used to in the past.
Do you know why physical is cheaper and goes on sale more than digital? Because there is actual competition between stores. You are basically saying that if only Sony would be allowed to sell physical copies of games, everything around physical games would stay the same. Which is strange claim.
@naruball Don't know about Nintendo, but you can buy Xbox digital games and Game Pass subs outside of Xbox Store through physical vouchers or digital keys. So you can't claim "monopoly" when you technically have a competition.
Sony don't allow that. So that's why they got sued and Xbox didn't. Also, Xbox is just too small in mainland Europe for anybody to care...
@ChrisDeku I disagree. I can right know buy official keys for Xbox Game Pass Ultimate or digital Xbox games in my store (so no grey market) with lower prices than they are on official Xbox Store.
For example, Xbox Game Pass Ultimate in my country is 17,99€ per month. I can buy it for 15,39€. Which isn't a huge saving per month, but can be pretty substantial saving for longer period of time. Same for digital games.
So claiming that allowing other sellers to sell digital keys would not lead to lower prices is *****.
It's not that long ago that you could buy PS Plus in same store. But now Sony only allows to sell funds for your wallet. And by that they are basically closed their ecosystem air-tight.
Studios wasn't force to make live service games is such a disingenuous statement.
It's like BioWare with Anthem. Casey Hudson knew that EA wanted to hear "live service" so he gave them pitch for live service.
So basically, studios ARE forced to make live service games. But not in a way where Hermen Hulst came to visit a studio and told them directly. In a way that you know that only project you will get money for will be live service.
@get2sammyb Well, there was a rumor during 2108-2019 about power struggle between Ryan and co. and Layden (and maybe even Yoshida) which Ryan won. It start to make a sense now.
@kedireturns mate. What a useless rampage. Steam is hitting 38 million daily CCU. PlayStation can just hide behind those numbers with their 128 million monthly MAU. Also, those 128 million monthly MAU include PC players of PlayStation games because it's 128 million PlayStation Network MAU users and not 128 million PlayStation console MAU users Also, if I remember correctly, you need to sign into PSN account if you are playing MLB on Xbox and Switch (could be wrong though) so even those numbers are counting.
To show, how useless this number is, Xbox had 300+ million MAU throughout their games last quarter.
You are cherry-picking examples of franchises that earn more on consoles, while blaming me that I'm cherry-picking examples? Way to go my boy . You are literally ignoring huge developers and publishers who are ignoring consoles and are extremely successful. Riot, until they released Valorant on consoles, never made a console game and they are one of the biggest game developer on the planet. Valve? enough said. PUBG was so big on PC, that consoles can't stand a chance. Stardew Valley, Warframe, Rust, Palworld, Civilization, DayZ etc. All huge successful games that are either miniscule on consoles or aren't even available there.
Of course I know what 64% of Xbox revenue coming from PlayStation means. And I gave you reasons. Call of Duty: Black Ops 6 and Minecraft. Duh?
And don't get me started on comparing Starfield on PC (Which hit 330k CCU on Steam despite being on Game Pass) with Astro Bot measly 1,5 million copies sold. Like...lol
Helldivers 2 have similar numbers of active players on PC and PS5, but it doesn't mean that game sold same amount of copies on both platforms. It just mean that PC players moved on because they have more games and more choices.
It must hurt when Square Enix told that going PS exclusive was a mistake and future is in multiplatform releases right? But what to expect from buthurt fanboy lol
@ChrisDeku Arguing with The Outer Worlds EGS exclusivity is funny considering we just talked about how irrelevant EGS is in PC gaming space. I would give you PoE though.
I think Avowed will clear 30k this weekend which is fine. Comparision with Dragon Age is maybe okayish in terms of genre (even if I don't agree exactly) but it's flawed especially since Obsidian had way smaller team on Avowed, since they simultaneously developed Pentiment, Grounded and The Outer Worlds 2, so budget for Avowed obviously didn't come anywhere near Dragon Age: The Veilguard. I think Obsidian mentioned that they had around 120 people on Avowed. Which is miniscule considering today's AAA game development.
But that's outside of main point. Which was that SM2 on PC isn't "failure" because it had 27k CCU. It's a failure because first game had 3x higher CCU. Which is common theme lately for PS releases on PC. God of War - 73k - Ragnarok - 35k Horizon Zero Dawn - 56k - Forbidden West - 40k Spider-Man - 66k - Spider-Man 2 - 28k I wonder how big TLOU 2 release will be considering first game hit 36k on Steam.
@ChrisDeku 5-7 million subscribers is pretty good number, if you ask me. Especially in context of talking about Steam CCU. Also, you forgot about Battle.net, which is pretty huge on PC. Although primarly for Blizzard games, so I don't know how many people would be keen to buy "third-party" games on that store.
So overall, game will reach higher CCU on Steam than previous game of same studio, despite being in Game Pass day one (which obviously lowers CCU on Steam) and also on Battle.net (which we can't track). Doesn't sound terrible to me. Obviously it could be better. But to reach any final-ish conclusion it's better to wait after first weekend because Steam CCU for new releases tend to peak during that time.
@ChrisDeku That's probably because relying on Steam numbers only when talking about XGS releases is dumb, because of Game Pass. Especially when talking about Avowed, which is available not only on Steam, but also on Xbox PC launcher (Game Pass players are playing through that) and even on Battle.net.
Meanwhile Sony's games are available only on Steam and EGS. And since EGS had revenue of 290 million $ for whole 2024 for third-party games, we probably know how (un)popular EGS really is so it's basically a non-factor.
Also, Spider-Man 2 flopped on PC compared to Spider-Man 1 which had 3x higher Steam CCU. Avowed is comparatively +- same as Obsidian's previous production. The Outer Worlds had 20k CCU on Steam which Avowed will easily surpass today.
@kedireturns lol. Thanks to PC Helldivers 2 is fastest selling PlayStation Studios game of all time. PS players should be thankful, because even thanks to PC players, game has such a substantial support. Fact that Sony squandered goodwill because their dumb decision to push PSN requirements few months after the launch is their problem alone.
Steam had 132 million MAU in 2021 and considering constant growth of the platform, it's way higher now. That's more MAU than PlayStation ever had btw. Games like Black Myth Wukong, Cyberpunk 2077 and Baldur's Gate 3 sold most of their copies on PC and Capcom is selling more PC games then PS+Xbox combined. Shift Up expects more copies sold of Stellar Blade on PC then on PS5. So pretending like PC gaming is nothing is dumb. Plain and simple.
Reason why recent PC ports of PlayStation games are struggling is because Sony is ignoring day one releases. Novelty of PS Studios games waned of after first God of War. And Sony just refuse to market their PC ports. It should be easy, thanks to big marketing spend, but that spend is tied to PlayStation release. Meaning that few people care about game that even PlayStation community forgot about, because it just wasn't that awesome (Spider-Man 2).
Obviously Xbox took most money from PlayStation last quarter because we were talking about quarter when they released Call of Duty Black Ops 6 which is biggest on consoles. Also, they have Minecraft which was best selling PS4 game during 2024. But when Xbox will start supporting Switch 2 with their games, those numbers will sort themselves out.
And which "PC disasters" Xbox had exactly? Last time I checked, their PC ports are usually pretty great. BO6 was fine on PC (cheaters excluded), Indy had awesome PC port and even Avowed is praised as one of the better optimised UE5 game on PC. So I don't know what the hell are you talking about.
Reason why GTA VI skips PC is because Rockstar know, that their game is so big, that many players will double dip.
It's hilarious that every big gaming company is saying same thing: We need to release our games multiplatform. And here we have "analyst" who is pretending otherwise.
@PuppetMaster Yeah. That's why Microsoft publicly stated their intentions of keeping Call of Duty multiplatform same month as they announced ABK purchase lol. And they offered Sony, Nintendo and Valve a deal. Valve said they don't need a deal, Nintendo signed it, but Jimbo saw it as opportunity to get deal blocked so he kept bitching about it. Sony then signed it when they realised that all their attempts to block the deal failed.
@charbtronic Even if you count out "late ports" Xbox is vastly outperforming PlayStation this year on PlayStation. Like...It's not even a contest.
Sony have/will have - Ghost of Yotei, Death Stranding 2 and MLB plus Marathon probably. There is always a chance for more, but I would not hold my breath
Xbox will have - The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion remake, Ninja Gaiden 4, DOOM: The Dark Ages, The Outer Worlds 2, COD 2025. And there is a chance that Fable and Gears of War E-Day will hit PS5 day one (if they manage to come out this year). And of course chances that Xbox will manage to port Avowed and South of Midnight on PS5 during this year are pretty high.
It's a problem on Sony's part.
Yes, there is a difference between Showcase and State of Play. But it's obvious that even Sony doesn't know the difference. Because they are putting huge first party games reveals (Ghost of Yotei, Physint, Saros) in State of Play. And that obviously creates expectations for every future State of Play.
Also it didn't help that they ignored Showcase for two years.
Also, they have insuficient number of studios for game industry where making AAA game takes 5-6 years. Combining it with disastrous pivot to live service where many studios had to scrap years of work, it just feels dry in terms of first party.
Say whatever you want about Xbox, but since they hired that former IGN chap (Tina Amini, I think), format of their showcases have been excellent. You know that Developer_Direct focuses on deep dives into few games. You know that Partner Preview is just about third-party games. And you know that every year you will get huge Showcase in June with new announcement. Plus smaller showcases during TGS and Gamescom with potential of having something during The Game Awards. It's clear, understandable and most importantly, it manages expectations. And that's exactly what current Sony's showcases are lacking.
@Petrecis24 I don't think that's the case. If Sony viewed Concord as a Hulst baby, they would fire him. Especially since he wasted billions of dollars to chase live service with Ryan.
This sounds more like "we tried double-CEO way, but it didn't work." And obviously. If you have two people in charge, how you can decide on the matters when they have opposing views?
If, for example, Hulst wanted to push towards PC day one releases day one to boost bottom line but Nishino was against it, who would decide?
My Extra sub is expiring on 8th and I won't be renewing. It was either cancel this or Game Pass Ultimate. And GPU is just way better value. But if Sony will give me bigger discount for 12 months, I will probably reconsider.
@Chupa_loyzer On one hand Bandai released Elden Ring. But they don't own a studio, which makes it a different situation. They are just publishing game and taking their cut.
Their "storydriven" stuff flopped hard (Unknown 9 Awakening) and one of the reason is that they can't afford to sink 300 million to highly polished AAA story-driven game. Which is exactly a crux of the issue.
Also, it helps that all companies you mentioned are located in Japan (and their studios are usually also in Japan). That means cheaper labor than studios like Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Bend or SSM. Which means smaller budgets. Which means less pressure to sell millions of copies just to break even. Which means less reasons to try and diversify your portfolio with live service games.
@Chupa_loyzer Didn't Capcom happened to release game called Exoprimal? Which is definition of live service?
SEGA is creating Crazy Taxi reboot which is supposed to be live service.
Bandai Namco is hardly creating "AAA cinematic story-driven games." Certainly not these which cost 300 million dollars like Spider-Man 2. And it shows. Unknown 9 Awakening is probably best example. Outside of From Soft. But they are only a publisher of their games and they don't own a studio. So Elden Ring can be hardly used as an argument.
@Johnnycide People just refuse to understand WHY companies are chasing success in live service. Or what is one of the reason, outside of "chasing Fortnite"
It's because cost of AAA SP game development is so high, that publishers need to diversify their revenue stream to a steady one instead of spending 300 million $ and maybe seeing ROI after 5 years for few weeks.
Every successful publisher on the market have a combination of live service cash-cow which then create ability to create high profile AAA "traditional games" EA: Apex + FIFA + Star Wars Jedi/Black Panther/Iron Man Take-Two: GTA Online + NBA + BioShock/Judas/Mafia Microsoft: Minecraft + COD + Sea of Thieves + DOOM The Dark Ages/Fable/Perfect Dark
Publishers who don't have success in live service segment tends to struggle in today's world. See Ubisoft (yes, they have Siege, but it's on last legs honestly). That's just a reality that some people refuse to acknowledge. If you want polished, AAA production values story-driven games without MTX, publisher just need to have other revenue streams. Hence live service.
I don't envy their positions. They need to bring some cool ideas as fast as they can if they don't want to be shut down.
I would not be surprised if both teams suffered pretty big layoffs. Sony in their current mood won't allow 150 devs of Bend to just sit there and wait for new project to ramp up.
@Ainu20 "Gamers loved it" is fine. But question is how much it cost and how much money it brought back.
Also, budget of GoT was pretty modest. 60 million $. It was game created in time, when budgetary concerns about AAA game development weren't as strong as they are now. Current AAA budgets are 200+ million$. So we are obviously talking about different periods of time.
Sucker Punch doubled number of devs since release of GoT. Add in 5 years of development.
@Cry_Zero That's just 0% chance that this will happen. Games are just too expensive to justify development of "addon MP modes" for SP games.
Just look at COD budgets to get an idea. Only juggernauts of gaming market can afford to develop games with multiple modes and styles of play. Fortnite, COD. That's it.
Even BF dumped SP campaign for 2042 because it just so expensive.
Good sign is that Fairgame$ seems on track, since it was not cancelled.
Bad sign is that after Concord I have no faith in PS Studios management to know what would be a great live service game. So it could be dumpster fire.
It really looks like Helldivers 2 success was coincidence and not carefully crafted experience with huge chance of success.
So, Naughty Dog wasted 3 years on game that will never see light of day. Because of that we will be happy if they will manage at least one release during PS5 gen. Bluepoint managed to release one remake during PS5 gen, but this will be only game on PS5. And Bend? They released game in 2019 and they will be glad if they will squeeze another game in this decade.
What a ***** show. And best thing is that guy responsible for this (Hulst) was promoted to become head of PlayStation. Talking about failing upwards.
@Drago201 That's the part we don't know. Because from what Kelly said, it could be taken as a budget for particular COD game but with post-launch support which usually takes one year. Because then it is replaced by another COD game.
@thefourfoldroot1 Not to argue very much, but Spider-Man 2, which is SP only game (COD games usually have campaign, MP and Zombies mode), built on foundations of Spider-Man 1, with huge number of reused assets cost more than 300 million dollars.
So is 700 million for game with three separate modes, Battle Royale etc. really that much?
I have feeling that people really don't have a clue how much AAA games cost currently.
Fearmongering from Sony "Microsoft is gonna pull COD from PlayStation" was always obvious *****.
Anybody with more than few brain cells could see this from miles away. COD has 2500+ devs attached to it. There was no way Microsoft was going to kamikadze COD brand even without contract.
Outside of terrible name for this game (which is first for modern ND), I kinda dig the vibe. That product placement is terrible, but I'm most intrigued by ND saying that they are creating deepest combat in history of ND. Which is great, because TLOU and Uncharted were mediocre at best in terms of gameplay depth.
@get2sammyb Do you really need to be THAT sensitive about criticism of TLOU 2 story? No, people who think that TLOU 2 story was bad are not "weird about it." Their opinion is as valid as yours. So labelling them because they don't like something that you do is weird in a first place.
Also, arguing with "Druckmann also wrote TLOU 1" is ignoring huge "Bruce Straley factor"
Comments 751
Re: 3 New PS Plus Essential Games Live Now, Including PS5 RPG Dragon Age
It's still wild how DAV is in PS Plus less than 6 months after release. How big of a commercial bomb it must have been.
Re: Talking Point: Is Forza Horizon 5's PS5 Price Point Too High?
@EfYI Early Access is probably only "bad" part about this, I agree. It's honestly so bad it's hilarious. Rest of the package is solid.
If you are crying that The Crew Motorfest is cheaper, then buy The Crew Motorfest. Plain and simple. Forza Horizon 5 costs same amount of money on PS Store as it cost on Xbox Store. So I really don't get the complaints. And since Forza Horizon 5 is charting higher then The Crew Motorfest with discount, it's pretty clear where users chose to spend their money lol.
I will repeat myself. I was reading for more than 5 years that PS users don't need first-party games day one in subscription because they "want to support the devs and quality." And now when they have chance to do exactly that, they are complaining about price. Comedy gold.
Btw. new Forza is pretty much given. That's why Playground Games has "Fable team" and "Forza team." And PS5 release won't change anything about it. It's just "free money" for Microsoft. Game sold est. 7 million copies on PC alone. And has 44 million users .
Re: Talking Point: Is Forza Horizon 5's PS5 Price Point Too High?
@EfYI Mate, have you checked how much Gran Turismo 7 cost on PS Store? Since it's game of similar age as Forza Horizon 5.
And what do you think GT7 would have cost on Xbox, if Sony decided to make an Xbox port now?
There are no apologists. FH5 is best sim-cade racer on the market with humongous amount of additional content that was provided for free after launch. Game is coming on PS5 with new update also. Basically only competition is The Crew Motorfest. Microsoft would be dumb to price it lower. Especially when there is a cheaper way to play it - through Game Pass.
It's hilarious to read PS fans to talk about, how they are willing to pay for quality games (instead of those pesky Xbox fans who are not buying games, only playing them through Game Pass). And now when they have ability to buy 92MC rated racing game, they are complaining.
Re: Talking Point: Is Forza Horizon 5's PS5 Price Point Too High?
It's already a top seller on PS Store. That's the answer to your question
Re: Xbox's Forza Horizon 5 Snatches April Release Date on PS5, Priced at $60
I mean, if you are complaining about price, there is still ability to just sub for Game Pass and play it there
Re: PS5 Fans Are Desperate for a Physical Version of Xbox Game Forza Horizon 5
Lol. Microsoft is not making physical version of almost 4 years old game. Get real. They outsourced development of port to Panic Button. They don't want to do noting more than what is absolute necessity and rake money.
They are avoiding making physical version of games like plague even on Xbox. Games like Avowed, Hellblade 2 don't have one and probably only reason games like Starfield, Indiana Jones, COD and DOOM will have one is because they are still technically Bethesda/ABK.
Re: PS5 Maker Faces Lawsuit Over So-Called 'Sony Tax' on Digital Games
@ChrisDeku ?
You proved my point that I need to wait for Sony to drop the price of PS Plus to get proper discount and you present it as some kind of win?
You are basically confirming my argument. Meanwhile, I can buy 1 year of Game Pass Ultimate on Shopto for 142€ which is pretty huge difference to official price on Xbox Store (216€ per year). And I can buy that right know despite the fact that Xbox doesn't have any discount on their official store. It means that I can right now buy Cyberpunk 2077 Ultimate Edition Xbox digital key for 42€ instead of paying 79,99€ on Xbox Store.
And that's entire point. Fighting against proper competition even in digital space is dumb. Even people bitch and moan against Steam's prices you can buy Steam keys in multiple shops for way cheaper. Which benefits you as a customer. I really don't understand why would anybody be against that.
Re: PS5 Maker Faces Lawsuit Over So-Called 'Sony Tax' on Digital Games
@ChrisDeku But that's a weird argument. If I'm buying GPU, that GPU has MSRP. But if only Nvidia sold those GPUs directly, I would be at a mercy of them having a sale. But since many shops are selling GPUs, there is actual competition and some shops are going lower than official MSRP, which saves me some money.
If I want to buy PS Plus cheaper (for example), I need to pay full price wait for Sony to drop prices of PS Plus two-three times per year. But if they sold PS Plus memberships through digital codes, I would be able to save more and more often like I used to in the past.
Do you know why physical is cheaper and goes on sale more than digital? Because there is actual competition between stores. You are basically saying that if only Sony would be allowed to sell physical copies of games, everything around physical games would stay the same. Which is strange claim.
Re: PS5 Maker Faces Lawsuit Over So-Called 'Sony Tax' on Digital Games
@naruball Don't know about Nintendo, but you can buy Xbox digital games and Game Pass subs outside of Xbox Store through physical vouchers or digital keys. So you can't claim "monopoly" when you technically have a competition.
Sony don't allow that. So that's why they got sued and Xbox didn't. Also, Xbox is just too small in mainland Europe for anybody to care...
Re: PS5 Maker Faces Lawsuit Over So-Called 'Sony Tax' on Digital Games
@ChrisDeku I disagree. I can right know buy official keys for Xbox Game Pass Ultimate or digital Xbox games in my store (so no grey market) with lower prices than they are on official Xbox Store.
For example, Xbox Game Pass Ultimate in my country is 17,99€ per month. I can buy it for 15,39€. Which isn't a huge saving per month, but can be pretty substantial saving for longer period of time. Same for digital games.
So claiming that allowing other sellers to sell digital keys would not lead to lower prices is *****.
It's not that long ago that you could buy PS Plus in same store. But now Sony only allows to sell funds for your wallet. And by that they are basically closed their ecosystem air-tight.
Re: Rumour: Rocksteady's Next Single-Player Game Based on Batman Beyond, May Be a PS5 Exclusive
@Herculean Not to mention fact that first person who mentioned that Sony is sniffing around potential Batman game from Rocksteady was Shpeshal_Nick
Re: Ex-Sony Exec Says PC Ports of Old PS5 Games Are Almost Like Printing Money
@Max_the_German he left this January. So I think he can assess this with full confidence. Basically only port he wasn't around was Spider-Man 2
Re: Rumour: Rocksteady's Next Single-Player Game Based on Batman Beyond, May Be a PS5 Exclusive
Lunatic Ignus and "reliable?"
Please lol...
Re: Shuhei Yoshida 'Really Appreciated' Indie Game Role Created by Jim Ryan
@themightyant lol. I guess that giving person climbing corporate ladder option for demotion or to leave the company is perfectly normal
Re: Yoshida: I Played The Last of Us Online And It Was Great
Studios wasn't force to make live service games is such a disingenuous statement.
It's like BioWare with Anthem. Casey Hudson knew that EA wanted to hear "live service" so he gave them pitch for live service.
So basically, studios ARE forced to make live service games. But not in a way where Hermen Hulst came to visit a studio and told them directly. In a way that you know that only project you will get money for will be live service.
Re: Shuhei Yoshida 'Really Appreciated' Indie Game Role Created by Jim Ryan
@get2sammyb Well, there was a rumor during 2108-2019 about power struggle between Ryan and co. and Layden (and maybe even Yoshida) which Ryan won. It start to make a sense now.
Re: Marvel's Spider-Man 2's Performance on PC Has Not Been Amazing
@kedireturns mate. What a useless rampage. Steam is hitting 38 million daily CCU. PlayStation can just hide behind those numbers with their 128 million monthly MAU. Also, those 128 million monthly MAU include PC players of PlayStation games because it's 128 million PlayStation Network MAU users and not 128 million PlayStation console MAU users Also, if I remember correctly, you need to sign into PSN account if you are playing MLB on Xbox and Switch (could be wrong though) so even those numbers are counting.
To show, how useless this number is, Xbox had 300+ million MAU throughout their games last quarter.
Minecraft was best selling game on PS4 in 2024. Or you want to deny chart that PLAYSTATION published? https://blog.playstation.com/2025/01/23/playstation-stores-top-downloads-of-2024/
You are cherry-picking examples of franchises that earn more on consoles, while blaming me that I'm cherry-picking examples? Way to go my boy . You are literally ignoring huge developers and publishers who are ignoring consoles and are extremely successful. Riot, until they released Valorant on consoles, never made a console game and they are one of the biggest game developer on the planet. Valve? enough said. PUBG was so big on PC, that consoles can't stand a chance. Stardew Valley, Warframe, Rust, Palworld, Civilization, DayZ etc. All huge successful games that are either miniscule on consoles or aren't even available there.
Of course I know what 64% of Xbox revenue coming from PlayStation means. And I gave you reasons. Call of Duty: Black Ops 6 and Minecraft. Duh?
And don't get me started on comparing Starfield on PC (Which hit 330k CCU on Steam despite being on Game Pass) with Astro Bot measly 1,5 million copies sold. Like...lol
Helldivers 2 have similar numbers of active players on PC and PS5, but it doesn't mean that game sold same amount of copies on both platforms. It just mean that PC players moved on because they have more games and more choices.
It must hurt when Square Enix told that going PS exclusive was a mistake and future is in multiplatform releases right? But what to expect from buthurt fanboy lol
Re: Shu Yoshida 'Really Appreciated' Indie Game Role Created by Jim Ryan
@themightyant He literally said that it was either Indies or him leaving PlayStation. There are no "gaps to fill."
Re: Marvel's Spider-Man 2's Performance on PC Has Not Been Amazing
@ChrisDeku Arguing with The Outer Worlds EGS exclusivity is funny considering we just talked about how irrelevant EGS is in PC gaming space. I would give you PoE though.
I think Avowed will clear 30k this weekend which is fine. Comparision with Dragon Age is maybe okayish in terms of genre (even if I don't agree exactly) but it's flawed especially since Obsidian had way smaller team on Avowed, since they simultaneously developed Pentiment, Grounded and The Outer Worlds 2, so budget for Avowed obviously didn't come anywhere near Dragon Age: The Veilguard. I think Obsidian mentioned that they had around 120 people on Avowed. Which is miniscule considering today's AAA game development.
But that's outside of main point. Which was that SM2 on PC isn't "failure" because it had 27k CCU. It's a failure because first game had 3x higher CCU. Which is common theme lately for PS releases on PC.
God of War - 73k - Ragnarok - 35k
Horizon Zero Dawn - 56k - Forbidden West - 40k
Spider-Man - 66k - Spider-Man 2 - 28k
I wonder how big TLOU 2 release will be considering first game hit 36k on Steam.
Re: Marvel's Spider-Man 2's Performance on PC Has Not Been Amazing
@ChrisDeku 5-7 million subscribers is pretty good number, if you ask me. Especially in context of talking about Steam CCU. Also, you forgot about Battle.net, which is pretty huge on PC. Although primarly for Blizzard games, so I don't know how many people would be keen to buy "third-party" games on that store.
So overall, game will reach higher CCU on Steam than previous game of same studio, despite being in Game Pass day one (which obviously lowers CCU on Steam) and also on Battle.net (which we can't track). Doesn't sound terrible to me. Obviously it could be better. But to reach any final-ish conclusion it's better to wait after first weekend because Steam CCU for new releases tend to peak during that time.
Re: Marvel's Spider-Man 2's Performance on PC Has Not Been Amazing
@ChrisDeku That's probably because relying on Steam numbers only when talking about XGS releases is dumb, because of Game Pass. Especially when talking about Avowed, which is available not only on Steam, but also on Xbox PC launcher (Game Pass players are playing through that) and even on Battle.net.
Meanwhile Sony's games are available only on Steam and EGS. And since EGS had revenue of 290 million $ for whole 2024 for third-party games, we probably know how (un)popular EGS really is so it's basically a non-factor.
Also, Spider-Man 2 flopped on PC compared to Spider-Man 1 which had 3x higher Steam CCU. Avowed is comparatively +- same as Obsidian's previous production. The Outer Worlds had 20k CCU on Steam which Avowed will easily surpass today.
Re: Marvel's Spider-Man 2's Performance on PC Has Not Been Amazing
@kedireturns lol. Thanks to PC Helldivers 2 is fastest selling PlayStation Studios game of all time. PS players should be thankful, because even thanks to PC players, game has such a substantial support. Fact that Sony squandered goodwill because their dumb decision to push PSN requirements few months after the launch is their problem alone.
Steam had 132 million MAU in 2021 and considering constant growth of the platform, it's way higher now. That's more MAU than PlayStation ever had btw. Games like Black Myth Wukong, Cyberpunk 2077 and Baldur's Gate 3 sold most of their copies on PC and Capcom is selling more PC games then PS+Xbox combined. Shift Up expects more copies sold of Stellar Blade on PC then on PS5. So pretending like PC gaming is nothing is dumb. Plain and simple.
Reason why recent PC ports of PlayStation games are struggling is because Sony is ignoring day one releases. Novelty of PS Studios games waned of after first God of War. And Sony just refuse to market their PC ports. It should be easy, thanks to big marketing spend, but that spend is tied to PlayStation release. Meaning that few people care about game that even PlayStation community forgot about, because it just wasn't that awesome (Spider-Man 2).
Obviously Xbox took most money from PlayStation last quarter because we were talking about quarter when they released Call of Duty Black Ops 6 which is biggest on consoles. Also, they have Minecraft which was best selling PS4 game during 2024. But when Xbox will start supporting Switch 2 with their games, those numbers will sort themselves out.
And which "PC disasters" Xbox had exactly? Last time I checked, their PC ports are usually pretty great. BO6 was fine on PC (cheaters excluded), Indy had awesome PC port and even Avowed is praised as one of the better optimised UE5 game on PC. So I don't know what the hell are you talking about.
Reason why GTA VI skips PC is because Rockstar know, that their game is so big, that many players will double dip.
It's hilarious that every big gaming company is saying same thing: We need to release our games multiplatform. And here we have "analyst" who is pretending otherwise.
Re: Reaction: Xbox Publishing More Games on PS5 Than Sony Is Not a Gotcha, It's Just a Sign of the Times
@PuppetMaster Yeah. That's why Microsoft publicly stated their intentions of keeping Call of Duty multiplatform same month as they announced ABK purchase lol. And they offered Sony, Nintendo and Valve a deal. Valve said they don't need a deal, Nintendo signed it, but Jimbo saw it as opportunity to get deal blocked so he kept bitching about it. Sony then signed it when they realised that all their attempts to block the deal failed.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/9/22925510/microsoft-activision-sony-nintendo-app-store-antitrust-policies
And yeah. SEGA was to be kept multiplatform. Or you are denying that it is stated in leaked documents from Microsoft?
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-planned-to-keep-sega-games-multiplatform-had-acquisition-happenedm/1100-6515516/
Re: Reaction: Xbox Publishing More Games on PS5 Than Sony Is Not a Gotcha, It's Just a Sign of the Times
Removed
Re: Reaction: Xbox Publishing More Games on PS5 Than Sony Is Not a Gotcha, It's Just a Sign of the Times
@PuppetMaster Who said that reason for ABK purchase was to kick Sony out of console industry? Jim Ryan?
Re: Reaction: Xbox Publishing More Games on PS5 Than Sony Is Not a Gotcha, It's Just a Sign of the Times
@charbtronic Even if you count out "late ports" Xbox is vastly outperforming PlayStation this year on PlayStation. Like...It's not even a contest.
Sony have/will have - Ghost of Yotei, Death Stranding 2 and MLB plus Marathon probably. There is always a chance for more, but I would not hold my breath
Xbox will have - The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion remake, Ninja Gaiden 4, DOOM: The Dark Ages, The Outer Worlds 2, COD 2025. And there is a chance that Fable and Gears of War E-Day will hit PS5 day one (if they manage to come out this year). And of course chances that Xbox will manage to port Avowed and South of Midnight on PS5 during this year are pretty high.
Re: PS5 Fans Are Pondering the Point of Days Gone Remastered After Graphics Comparison Emerges
So they took PS4 version, changed few graphic settings to High to match PC version and they are charging 10€ for it
It explains why there will be no "remaster" on PC. Because PC already have a remaster.
Re: Reaction: The PS5 Discourse Around State of Plays Is Becoming Draining
It's a problem on Sony's part.
Yes, there is a difference between Showcase and State of Play. But it's obvious that even Sony doesn't know the difference. Because they are putting huge first party games reveals (Ghost of Yotei, Physint, Saros) in State of Play. And that obviously creates expectations for every future State of Play.
Also it didn't help that they ignored Showcase for two years.
Also, they have insuficient number of studios for game industry where making AAA game takes 5-6 years. Combining it with disastrous pivot to live service where many studios had to scrap years of work, it just feels dry in terms of first party.
Say whatever you want about Xbox, but since they hired that former IGN chap (Tina Amini, I think), format of their showcases have been excellent. You know that Developer_Direct focuses on deep dives into few games. You know that Partner Preview is just about third-party games. And you know that every year you will get huge Showcase in June with new announcement. Plus smaller showcases during TGS and Gamescom with potential of having something during The Game Awards. It's clear, understandable and most importantly, it manages expectations. And that's exactly what current Sony's showcases are lacking.
Re: Ex-PlayStation Boss Says Sony 'Can't Get Away' with a PS6 That Has No Disc Drive
@Dodoo It's not like you have anywhere else to go. PC is digital for ages. And Xbox will be "all digital" even sooner than Sony.
Re: Ex-PlayStation Boss Says Sony 'Can't Get Away' with a PS6 That Has No Disc Drive
It's pretty obvious that PS6 will release without BD drive as a standard. But Sony will offer BD addon.
Re: Sony's Stocks Fly As Market Responds to New Corporate Hierarchy
Finance guy is new CEO. It is as good signal for investor as it can be.
But it will be good for consumers? That's another question.
Re: Hermen Hulst No Longer PlayStation Co-CEO, Still in Charge of First-Party
@Petrecis24 I don't think that's the case. If Sony viewed Concord as a Hulst baby, they would fire him. Especially since he wasted billions of dollars to chase live service with Ryan.
This sounds more like "we tried double-CEO way, but it didn't work." And obviously. If you have two people in charge, how you can decide on the matters when they have opposing views?
If, for example, Hulst wanted to push towards PC day one releases day one to boost bottom line but Nishino was against it, who would decide?
Re: Xbox Rips Off the Band Aid, 'Expect Our Games to Show Up in More and More Places'
Since Sony is pretty inept lately it's good that at least someone will feed PlayStation 5 some goodies.
Re: PS Plus Subscriptions on Sale, Up to 35% Off
My Extra sub is expiring on 8th and I won't be renewing. It was either cancel this or Game Pass Ultimate. And GPU is just way better value. But if Sony will give me bigger discount for 12 months, I will probably reconsider.
Re: Ubisoft Marks One Year of Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown Despite Killing the Studio
Please correct an article. Ubisoft did not close Ubisoft Montpellier. They just disbanded PoP team inside a studio. And moved devs to other projects.
Ubisoft Montpellier is still up and running and it's leading developer on Beyond Good and Evil 2.
Re: GDC Report Finds Industry Layoffs, Live Service Scepticism Increasing Year-Over-Year
@breakneck fact that 1 company doesn't know what it's doing doesn't mean that developing live service is a lost cause.
Marvel Rivals and Deadlock are saying hello.
Re: Horizon's MMO Appears to Have Been Cancelled
@Chupa_loyzer On one hand Bandai released Elden Ring. But they don't own a studio, which makes it a different situation. They are just publishing game and taking their cut.
Their "storydriven" stuff flopped hard (Unknown 9 Awakening) and one of the reason is that they can't afford to sink 300 million to highly polished AAA story-driven game. Which is exactly a crux of the issue.
Also, it helps that all companies you mentioned are located in Japan (and their studios are usually also in Japan). That means cheaper labor than studios like Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Bend or SSM. Which means smaller budgets. Which means less pressure to sell millions of copies just to break even. Which means less reasons to try and diversify your portfolio with live service games.
Re: Horizon's MMO Appears to Have Been Cancelled
@Chupa_loyzer Didn't Capcom happened to release game called Exoprimal? Which is definition of live service?
SEGA is creating Crazy Taxi reboot which is supposed to be live service.
Bandai Namco is hardly creating "AAA cinematic story-driven games." Certainly not these which cost 300 million dollars like Spider-Man 2. And it shows. Unknown 9 Awakening is probably best example. Outside of From Soft. But they are only a publisher of their games and they don't own a studio. So Elden Ring can be hardly used as an argument.
Re: Horizon's MMO Appears to Have Been Cancelled
@Johnnycide People just refuse to understand WHY companies are chasing success in live service. Or what is one of the reason, outside of "chasing Fortnite"
It's because cost of AAA SP game development is so high, that publishers need to diversify their revenue stream to a steady one instead of spending 300 million $ and maybe seeing ROI after 5 years for few weeks.
Every successful publisher on the market have a combination of live service cash-cow which then create ability to create high profile AAA "traditional games"
EA: Apex + FIFA + Star Wars Jedi/Black Panther/Iron Man
Take-Two: GTA Online + NBA + BioShock/Judas/Mafia
Microsoft: Minecraft + COD + Sea of Thieves + DOOM The Dark Ages/Fable/Perfect Dark
Publishers who don't have success in live service segment tends to struggle in today's world. See Ubisoft (yes, they have Siege, but it's on last legs honestly). That's just a reality that some people refuse to acknowledge.
If you want polished, AAA production values story-driven games without MTX, publisher just need to have other revenue streams. Hence live service.
Re: Days Gone Dev Says It Still Plans to Create 'Cool Sh*t' for PS5 After Live Service Cancellation
I don't envy their positions. They need to bring some cool ideas as fast as they can if they don't want to be shut down.
I would not be surprised if both teams suffered pretty big layoffs. Sony in their current mood won't allow 150 devs of Bend to just sit there and wait for new project to ramp up.
Re: Lists of Sony’s Cancelled Live Service PS5 Games Paint a Worrying Picture
@Ainu20 "Gamers loved it" is fine. But question is how much it cost and how much money it brought back.
Also, budget of GoT was pretty modest. 60 million $. It was game created in time, when budgetary concerns about AAA game development weren't as strong as they are now. Current AAA budgets are 200+ million$. So we are obviously talking about different periods of time.
Sucker Punch doubled number of devs since release of GoT. Add in 5 years of development.
Re: Lists of Sony’s Cancelled Live Service PS5 Games Paint a Worrying Picture
@Cry_Zero That's just 0% chance that this will happen. Games are just too expensive to justify development of "addon MP modes" for SP games.
Just look at COD budgets to get an idea. Only juggernauts of gaming market can afford to develop games with multiple modes and styles of play. Fortnite, COD. That's it.
Even BF dumped SP campaign for 2042 because it just so expensive.
Re: Lists of Sony’s Cancelled Live Service PS5 Games Paint a Worrying Picture
Good sign is that Fairgame$ seems on track, since it was not cancelled.
Bad sign is that after Concord I have no faith in PS Studios management to know what would be a great live service game. So it could be dumpster fire.
It really looks like Helldivers 2 success was coincidence and not carefully crafted experience with huge chance of success.
Re: Reaction: Sony's Live Service Push Has Been a Disaster of Utterly Insane Proportions
So, Naughty Dog wasted 3 years on game that will never see light of day. Because of that we will be happy if they will manage at least one release during PS5 gen.
Bluepoint managed to release one remake during PS5 gen, but this will be only game on PS5.
And Bend? They released game in 2019 and they will be glad if they will squeeze another game in this decade.
What a ***** show. And best thing is that guy responsible for this (Hulst) was promoted to become head of PlayStation. Talking about failing upwards.
Re: This Is Why Call of Duty Is Not Gonna Stop Launching on PS5
@Drago201 That's the part we don't know. Because from what Kelly said, it could be taken as a budget for particular COD game but with post-launch support which usually takes one year. Because then it is replaced by another COD game.
Re: This Is Why Call of Duty Is Not Gonna Stop Launching on PS5
@thefourfoldroot1 Not to argue very much, but Spider-Man 2, which is SP only game (COD games usually have campaign, MP and Zombies mode), built on foundations of Spider-Man 1, with huge number of reused assets cost more than 300 million dollars.
So is 700 million for game with three separate modes, Battle Royale etc. really that much?
I have feeling that people really don't have a clue how much AAA games cost currently.
Re: This Is Why Call of Duty Is Not Gonna Stop Launching on PS5
@rjejr Who exactly needs to be "saved"?
Modern Warfare 2 earned 1 billion in sales in first 10 days. Not counting MTXs. Despite insane budgets, COD is also insanely profitable.
Re: This Is Why Call of Duty Is Not Gonna Stop Launching on PS5
Fearmongering from Sony "Microsoft is gonna pull COD from PlayStation" was always obvious *****.
Anybody with more than few brain cells could see this from miles away. COD has 2500+ devs attached to it. There was no way Microsoft was going to kamikadze COD brand even without contract.
Re: Random: Former IGN China Editor Refutes Game Science Crying Claim
Alanah Pearce just talks too much...
I wonder when she will left Sony, since she said that she will never play/make any game that is using AI during development
Re: Intergalactic PS5 Is Naughty Dog's Wildest, Most Creative Story Yet
Outside of terrible name for this game (which is first for modern ND), I kinda dig the vibe. That product placement is terrible, but I'm most intrigued by ND saying that they are creating deepest combat in history of ND. Which is great, because TLOU and Uncharted were mediocre at best in terms of gameplay depth.
@get2sammyb Do you really need to be THAT sensitive about criticism of TLOU 2 story? No, people who think that TLOU 2 story was bad are not "weird about it." Their opinion is as valid as yours. So labelling them because they don't like something that you do is weird in a first place.
Also, arguing with "Druckmann also wrote TLOU 1" is ignoring huge "Bruce Straley factor"