Easily one of the best and most interesting pieces of the Phase Four jigsaw puzzle (although I'm obviously behind, so I can't speak to the quality of what I've yet to see). The first, fourth and fifth episodes were phenomenal, whilst the second and sixth were the usual level of solid, reliable MCU fare. The third, however, was dire beyond belief; no idea what happened there, because it was a total mid-point trainwreck. It sucked all the energy out of the room (and the cast's performances). I was so glad when the show shook off this weird, temporary funk and so, on balance, I'd call the whole endeavour a success, and a valiant attempt to do something fresh and meaningful. It probably helped that I had no idea who Moon Knight was a couple of days ago, so I had zero expectations going in.
It's a shame about the CGI, though. Most of it was "good enough" but there were some shots which looked rushed, and some of the creatures were lacking that extra 10% I've come to expect in recent years. I was aware of the recent and unfortunate stories surrounding the MCU's CGI problem, but hadn't heard them in connection to Moon Knight. I guess this was the start of the slippery slope (and previous examples of poor CGI, like Black Panther and Loki, were just bumps on the road).
Also, as amazing as the fifth episode was, I did have to laugh when we started walking through rooms full of childhood memories, a'la WandaVision. Please don't let that become a standard MCU trope for analysing past trauma (if only because it'll never be done better than here).
Best theme-driven orchestral score in recent MCU history, as well. It's the first soundtrack from the Disney+ shows that I've rushed to buy and download. Lovely stuff.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
Still haven’t finished Moon Knight or even started Ms Marvel (not over the stupid powers she has now) but I did watch the first 3 episodes of She Hulk and loved it. The humour is natural and there’s some genuinely cutting social commentary that I’m glad they’re tackling. It’s just a great show.
@LN78 Considering how they’ve seemingly chickened out of the whole ‘Ms Marvel shape shifting into Captain Marvel because she doesn’t think someone who looks like her can be a superhero’ deal, I’m just surprised that they’ve tackled the incels online. I liked that they gave She Hulk a whole monologue about how she’s had to control her anger for as long as she’s been alive so this is nothing new to her. To actually say that women need to watch how they reject pushy men for fear of being literally murdered is quite a bit further than I’d expect Marvel shows to go so that’s great.
@nessisonett Went into She-Hulk with little expectation knowing nothing about the character aside the obvious and I have very much enjoyed it. I think it's all been done well so far including the 4th wall stuff which I'm always sceptical of. (I wish the internet would stop trying to Americanise my spelling).
@RogerRoger I really enjoyed how different Moonknight was too. I don't recall the specifics of what was in episode 3 was but thought it was good throughout. Oscar Isaac is excellent playing duel roles I thought.
@nessisonett@LN78 As much as it sounds like I might end up occasionally rolling my eyes at She-Hulk, I won't begrudge the writers for trying to ensure that they get their point across. It's not a message for me, nor any of the regulars around here (I'd hope) but clearly somebody, somewhere, feels that it needs to be said, so more power to 'em. From what Ness describes above, it seems like important stuff to present to an audience likely still dominated by teenage boys and young men.
@BearsEatBeets The third episode of Moon Knight was just a lot of subdued conversations, janky action and zero tension. It went nowhere and did nothing. Still very pretty, though (it had the neon-backed boat ride and the golden glass pyramids in, and ended with the fancy sky thing; hope that roundabout description helps, as I don't wanna risk spoiling anything for the others I've tagged in this reply).
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger It's a comedy show about a big green super powered Ally McBeal that airs on Disney Plus. I'm not sure any sort of "social commentary" (especially of the groaningly ham-fisted sort that these shows are apparently only capable of providing - she's a woman so her life is automatically more difficult than for the other 50% of humanity) is appropriate at all. Just leave it out.
PS Haven't seen the show so just watched the clip that Ness is talking about on YT. She Hulk is apparently "infinitely" better at anger management than Bruce (with his years of practice) because she is a woman and some men are dicks. With top notch writing like that I'm really tempted to buy a Disney Plus sub and catch up on all this wonderful Marvel content straight away. 🙄.
@LN78 I didn't realise it was a comedy first and foremost. I just thought it was more MCU content, although I suppose the MCU can be anything it wants to be, as it's proven on multiple occasions.
Having grown up on Star Trek, Doctor Who, and a bunch of other franchises, movies and TV shows which reflect social trends, present little morality plays every week, and generally underpin their shenanigans with some kind of comment, I have zero problem with anything that wants to make a point about anything. If I were given the reins of something as instantly wide-reaching as a Marvel series, would I wanna waste my opportunity to address a captive audience? C'mon, who wouldn't be tempted?
And sure, whilst I do agree with you that modern writing trends lack subtlety, I can understand how the social media age has dumbed everything down and forced everybody's hand in that regard. It seems to be the price of doing business nowadays; if you're not seen to be standing for something, then you're dismissed as not standing for anything. But if it's giving hope to somebody, somewhere, then I can't be mad at it.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Take a look at the news, mate. War, famine, drought, inflation, recession, disease and American democracy teetering on a precipice. I'm sure this light hearted comedy show slamming it to the "incels" is just the ticket. That it has a lower audience score on the aggregate sites than the last (staggeringly bad) "Dr. Strange" movie is frankly mind boggling.
@LN78 Oh hey, I'm not here to judge how anybody balances their choice of entertainment with the very real struggles of the modern world. I'm just saying that I can appreciate how we got here, s'all.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger My point is that taking lazy pot shots at the sort of morons who still wolf whistle at women is hardly the kind of cutting edge social commentary that certain people are purporting it to be. It just comes off as (as you pointed out) checking the boxes on the virtue signalling application form.
@LN78 Well, I'd argue that it's a bit of a wider spectrum than that, but I do understand your point, and agree that there's a range of ways to present such material, some more successful than others. With so many different people to speak to, I'm sure it's getting across to somebody somewhere. I mean, show me a movie, TV show, game, play or book with a message which pleases everybody, right...?!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
Can I just mention the amount of hate that Jen twerking in she hulk episode 3 is getting. It's a fun, harmless scene and if you're coming here to vent about it, please don't.
@Jackpaza0508 It was a post-credit scene joke. The fact there’s so much hate just proves exactly what the show’s saying about men. Notice how none of the other many, many stupid throwaway post-credit scenes that are little jokes have had a ‘backlash’.
@nessisonett I could’ve sworn that the comments they showed in episode 3 were taken directly from comment sections for the she hulk and ms marvel trailers since they’ve both had a very similar reaction
@nessisonett "The fact there’s so much hate just proves exactly what the show’s saying about men". It proves what it's saying about a certain type of men, right? The tiny subset of pathetic, insecure losers who take to social media to complain about gender politics in TV shows and movies based on the funny books designed for children? I'm sure that's what you meant.
@LN78 It’s not really all that tiny a group though. I’m not exaggerating when I say that literally every single woman I know has suffered some form of harassment from a man, ranging from catcalling to full blown assault. It’s a fact of life and it shouldn’t be. Girls are taught from a young age not to put themselves in situations where they could be taken advantage of, which isn’t their responsibility as men should be the ones not taking advantage of them. It’s not even just isolated to harassment of people born female either, the gay community is rife with predatory behaviour and general dreadful attitudes. Andrew Tate had 4.7 million followers on Instagram when his account was removed. Teenagers are repeating his crap in schools, from telling female teachers that their place is in the kitchen to aggressively pursuing other students even when rebuffed. I can tell you for a fact that this has gotten worse, my sister’s a teacher in a high school and these teenage boys’ attitudes are being moulded by social media influencers who tell them that the way to attract women is to dominate them and put them in their place.
This is a worldwide problem spread by social media with a massive following. At the end of the day, women can’t tell that you aren’t one of ‘those guys’. They have to be wary of everybody because men are all ‘nice guys’ until they aren’t. So if a rebuke of male violence and harassment towards women doesn’t apply to you then it’s not really that big of an inconvenience. If a movie gives the message that ‘racism is bad’ then I wouldn’t start shouting at the screen that I’m not a racist and how dare they assume that the viewer is a racist. It’s possible to give generalised criticism of a social problem that affects a large number of people. ‘Not all men’ just isn’t really a helpful attitude to be honest, it doesn’t add anything of substance similar to other non-statements like ‘all lives matter’. Not all men are misogynists, but all women are affected by misogyny. That’s the difference. You can call out as many sexists as you like but until attitudes change then new generations of sexists will keep spawning. That’s the role of media.
@nessisonett Well if "not all men" isn't helpful then let's be honest, neither is "all men are potential rapists". There's a balance to be struck, is what I'm getting at and TV shows and movies constantly berating an entire gender for their (apparently inherent) reprehensible behaviour is going to become counterproductive. Young boys need positive reinforcement from media as well - not to be told that they're inevitably destined to become misogynistic monsters of one type or another.
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