Topic: The Chit Chat Thread

@Vermines Truly, it's not your fault. We're horrifyingly living in a time where it's becoming increasingly accepted to persecute the trans community. No one could ever fault you for coming in with insecurity and your guard up, because sadly that's the reality too many people have been pushing for to put you in. I'm a part of the LGBTQI+ community myself (specifically the G), so I've naturally been trying to follow the developments in any country that's affecting people who I call my brothers, sisters and everything inbetween in arms. They're the only people I'd go to war for!

I've been disgusted and, frankly, speechless seeing everything that's happening occur in real-time. I'd hoped we had improved as a society enough to escape any devolvement like that, but history repeats itself and such. It's sickening to see the trans community take all the big hits thus far when you are already amongst our most vulnerable to begin with. I am truly sorry for everything you've had to put up with already. As I'm not in a position of power, it makes me feel helpless, so I can't imagine the extent of pain and emotions it has brought you. It's beyond words.

As @Ravix has eloquently put, this is a safe space. Discrimination ot any kind, least of all the people I consider my community, won't be tolerated by myself or (hopefully) all of us. They'd have to walk over my dead corpse to come here with that! If nothing else, we can all do our hardest to at least keep this small community safe from that kind ot derision and inexplicable hatred. I hope you'll find some comfort here, whether we're speaking politically plain or arguing over non-sensical gaming tidbits. I am truly proud of you for putting yourself out there in this way in spite of so much of society giving you plenty of reasons not to, and I hope we'll all get to know you over time as the real you. Warts and all! You'll always be welcome here.

(And don't be worried about your writing at all! We all had to start somewhere. None of us started as open and verbose as we (I) might be now. If this is a stepping stone for you, then take this opportunity and run with it. And even if not, then we're perfectly happy conversing with you just as you are. I think we've proven that already! Besides, years of socialising later and I still write like a pompuous prick. Some things never change, haha! 😜)

Was lucky enough to meet him once, and I can confirm that yes, he was indeed the man.

And I'll join everybody else in welcoming @Vermines aboard here, too!

@Vermines Don't be. Sleep is important absolutely, I'll make up for it tonight. I lurked on here for well over a year before I even created a profile. I saw how people conducted themselves and decided eventually that I'd try. Like I said to you last night I don't understand hate for the sake of it and never will. I can't connect those dots at all. I've been in the position to see what happens when that kind of hate does become systematic and the worst of humanity run literal riot, I just can't mentally process their reason for doing it. I always viewed the UK as a kind of safe haven, mostly because of it being rather small. And also because I know people who did flee to there or were exiled to there. Thankfully I'm neither. Living in a country doesn't mean you are exposed to what's really going on either, it's a kind of surface level experience that separates you either by language, community or by design. Sometimes all three. It's good to look, listen and learn, though like @Tjuz said there's a pain that accompanies it when you can't do anything about it. That's what kept me awake last night, learning about it and knowing I couldn't do anything about it. Foreign policy is a lot different than internal involvement especially when you still see yourself as a foreigner and separate from how that country does operate. There's a need to get involved but a policy of not to. Either way I think Tjuz and Ravix said it better. I've never felt discrimination like that before, just targeted missinformation and that's not the same thing at all. There was never the kind of familiar connection there to begin with, it was just an under the radar existence.

Edit: I found the quote that I was trying to remember. It's from Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl. His psychotherapeutic method involved identifying a purpose to each person's life through one of three ways: the completion of tasks, caring for another person, or finding meaning by facing suffering with dignity. The quote was: 'Forces beyond your control can take away everything you possess except one thing, your freedom to choose how you will respond to the situation.'

It's the central theme of the book, emphasizing that while external circumstances are often beyond our control, individuals always retain the freedom to choose their attitude and inner response.

@Vermines I just listen a lot, and read a lot. And I suppose study a lot too, it's easier to learn when it's a personal choice and not a forced curriculum. It's something I took from home schooling, you can keep learning on your own time. I don't think you'd sound patronizing, but I do think you have more control over the situation than you are lead to believe. People usually do, the power is in making them think they don't. That way the cycle of mistreatment and injustice continues. I took 'lost a lot to be here', as - you lost a lot to just be yourself. To me that's injustice, and not your fault. If I put two and two together with what you said before that means family, that's just awful.

You shouldn't have to sacrifice something like that just to be comfortable in your own skin. It feels so against nature to turn your back on your own especially if they did something so brave. Even if you didn't understand it, there's no scenario in my mind where that makes sense. I could walk into the next room right now and shoot someone and my parents would still love me, it's an extreme hypothetical but I can't think of any other right now.

Time does heal a lot of things, and absence too. It gives people an opportunity to think about their choices, I'd hope for their sake that they do wake up and understand it's something you are doing for survival. That's what it sounds like, survival. It's not something you choose, it's just you and if you can't be yourself then you can't thrive and if you aren't thriving you aren't surviving. You have a god given right to live your life regardless of what others think, family or other.

I'll tell you something truly shocking, I had to Google Barry Norman.

@Vermines It's not pity. It's also winter, that's not helping even if you don't realize it. Seasonal depression is serious, if it's adding to your load then it makes perfect sense. You didn't ramble, don't think that bottling things up is ever the answer. I definitely shared too but it's the same information I share when I'm advocating for what I mentioned, and that was all of the tame soft details. Life isn't perfect. I managed a popular lifestyle blog for a very long time, people saw nice things, nice places but it's not real. You aren't your situation, you are you even if some idiot hates you for it. I know I'm hated but I also know they only hate the idea of me/what it means to be Russian in London. They aren't going to say it to my face. I spent a year inside worrying about nothing, if they don't know you then they are in no place to judge. It took me a long time to realize that. The last thing you should be doing is judging yourself for being real, either in your actions, words or choices.

What you called hang-ups, everyone has them and every gamer I've ever talked to is by no means perfect. Gaming is escapism, it's a hobby too but it's still escapism. No one knows what they are doing here, I don't. I'm in another country staring out the window and wondering the same thing. No one has all the answers. I'd take what Ravix and Tjuz said as gospel, and I have a very hard time trusting anyone but I believe what they said.

I'm going to drop this into Chit Chat, with the tag you'll still see it. Just don't think 'I messed up so now I'll shut up', that's not healthy.

@Vermines I think I still have that account, I'll have a look.

Got it, take all the time you need.

@GirlVersusGame I'll put my response here in the Chit Chat Thread as it's mostly not related to movies anymore, haha! First of all, I'll say I totally respect your decision not to use the word queer. You're far from alone with that, even within our community as I said, and you should ultimately say and do whatever feels comfortable to you. Anyway, queer identities are hardly something people know by default, so I wouldn't fault you for being able to give me one post-it note's worth of explanation. Especially when referring to social constructs like the idea of "queerbaiting" or what exactly an LGBTQI+ community should even be, because ultimately none of it should matter and we should all just be able to live as is without having to resort to labels. I can tell you I sure wasn't born with a big fat label on my forehead denoting I was gay, ha! I think my interests in what are stereotypically seen as "gay" interests for young boys is what did me in there. Your female pop stars, musicals, dolls...

I don't know where you're living and won't pry it out of you, but since you mentioned your friend moving to Europe to flee the demonisation as well as the stigma against it in general, I'm going to assume you're not living in the friendliest of places towards us queer folk. At least legislatively, because I've met so many people much like yourself who are incredibly open to it despite originating from a country that's known to be rather hostile. Like yourself, I've had plenty of talks with people in those situations and it always comes down to learning from acquaintances or moving countries. I've had to learn it through the sheer reality of living it, and that took me a while to get to grips with in and of itself. Let alone an "outsider" who isn't actively experiencing and dealing with all the stuff that comes with it. As you said, if you simply learn of something as being "wrong", it's a powerful phrase to keep you from wanting to learn more about it. Or well, I wasn't much of a rebel myself at least.

I was born in the Netherlands and lived there for most of my life, only having moved a few years ago to Germany. I've been one of the lucky ones to grow up and live my adolescence in places that were more accepting than most, but it's a shame to see progress be undone over time. I certainly wasn't taught in school either about what LGBTQI+ identity or sexuality actually consist of, aside from a paragraph in one biology lession acknowledging that homosexuality exists at all. I think it's gotten somewhat better in my two countries since I was a child, but there's still plenty of progress to be made. You're totally right in saying that there's hypocrisy even within the simple fact of being of homosexual, because two men and two women are looked at differently. I think it says a lot that nowadays it feels like that distinction is waning, but rather more so in a negative than a positive way where both are starting to get looked at as equally abnormal.

It's insane, but unsurprising, to hear you talk about arrests and raids in present terms. Like I said before, I'm extremely lucky to have lived in countries where that is not currently realistic, and to have been born in this current time after that progress had been made. Those kinds of stories I think of as past tense within the social climate I live in, but it remains a horrible reality still in too many places. I don't fault you at all for prioritising your own safety by choosing to avoid these kinds of films that are still so controversial (and occasionally dangerous) where you live. I'll be clear too in that I read nothing of your comments as any personal stigma. You truly do read to me as a kind and open-minded person when it comes to us queer folks, and you're simply in the wrong place at the wrong time to be able to engage with our issues in the ways you want to. That's not anything I personally hold against you, but rather against your society and its expectations. The fact that you've even been able to break free from that kind of indoctrination (which they will quickly accuse queer cinema of being as you said) shows to me that you're simply doing your best within the limits of your current situation, so don't apologise at all. You don't have to be afraid to walk on eggshells with me either, as I'm sure I've heard worse than anything you might accidentally say, though I obviously appreciate wanting to keep my feelings in mind with whatever you say or describe!

The fact of the matter is that is still a taboo subject in many places. It's horrible that you have to delete your internet histories for anything in fear of being monitored, let alone something as harmless as someone's gender or sexual identity. Now I completely understand having read posts of you before where you mentioned using programs like Tor or engaging in deep-web chatrooms! It's the way for you to keep safe from any malicious outside interference, and I'm sure that goes for a lot more than even just LGBTQI+ topics. It's great that you put yourself out there in this way however, even when knowing the risks it could still pose you. It's only good you're careful, and it's better to learn about terms like DEI or wokeness here than not at all! Like you said, it sucks that those terms have been either turned into a joke by many or are actively fought against. When you remove the power from important stepping stones like that, you're only actively encouraging the devolvement of society to where we can more easily swipe LGBTQI+ identities under the rug again. But then again, that's also simply the whole point for many...

If ever you're in a position to engage with queer media in a safe manner, do let me know! I'd love to introduce you to some fantastic TV, films or books that it sounds like would definitely capture your interest and let you fulfill your curiosity. But in the meantime, I'm happy to keep going back and forth on the topic for as long as you have questions or would like to know about my personal take on stuff. Obviously we're not a hivemind, so you'll have to view everything through the lens of how I see it, but I don't think I've said anything particularly partial so far! Just make sure to also let me know when you might want to give it a break for a bit, because as many of my fellow.... Pushers(?) here, I am known to be verbose. And this is a topic I can endless talk on, haha!

@Tjuz Okay so you said pop stars, we gave the world the band TaTu, back then music like that wasn't propaganda. It was actually a kind of moving forward in a way but still selective because it was two women and they liked guys too, they were public about having boyfriends and made it clear that what was shown on stage was an act. That's how they managed to become so big, they played Moscow last month. Their shows now are more subdued and subtle because of propaganda laws. I still listen to them, there's never been an issues with that. If you asked me if I could name an openly gay singer? or a song that presents homosexuality as normal I could say Lady Gaga. She's too big to not know. Then I draw a blank.

When I used to go to TaTu's shows it was very different, more flags, people looking more openly together. 2025's Moscow show was very different, people were being careful. That's where I'm from Moscow but I also live in the UK and travel back and forth regularly. Being outside of Moscow doesn't mean not being careful, for a while there was more leeway, and that goes the same for a lot of kids who were brought up in political circles or in state controlled industries. Most were busy drinking themselves silly or blowing up instagram. That image rubbed off onto that whole community. To most you are a gangster or an Oligarch, you have to be one of them for people to put you into a box. Whereas before they hardly even knew you were there. That's what I mean when I say existing under the radar, it's not that you want to stay disconnected from other people and other groups it's just the way you are expected to behave and keep to your own. Which sounds suspicious, and that doesn't help things either.

That kind of box is where my mind goes when I try to understand the different groups and subsets under the Pride flag. It's not that I want to separate people into categories, it's the result of an already protective community (for safety) being completely blocked by an eternal controlling force. That block is something that is relatively new for some people, maybe even most people but it's always been there for me. There was always the mindset that the Cold War never ended and that I should not trust, associate with or mix with certain people, groups, nationalities. I bent a lot of those rules, especially through gaming. Before then I really did believe what I was told and I'm not alone in that. I knew people my own age who were given the same kind of grilling until it stuck.

Some of it did make sense, some I can't shake even when I try tonight. You've mentioned discrimination before, I felt that and it's why I didn't stay in school. That was just kids being kids. Now it's adults who don't know you hating everything they think you stand for. That's why I haven't watched the news or visited social media in two years. Maybe you experienced something similar in your own life (I didn't know there was discrimination like that in the UK and Europe over being gay) you mentioned pop singers and even dolls? My first Playstation games were Barbie and they were god awful. If I asked for something more male orientated I'd be given a flat no. There was no half way point, it was very clear that this is for you and this isn't. I don't personally think that's a healthy way to do it, but I understand why I had to do it. There isn't that same kind of microscope on the males of my family, it's more like boys with toys. They don't have to strive for perfection but they do have to do the heavy lifting so to speak.

I mentioned ice skating before, that was something that was chosen for me and in the end I took to it. If you liked/like dolls you'd probably like it. It's the closest you can get to flying without wings. Maybe other parents do push gender stereotypes on their children? I don't know if a child can choose or know who or what they are at that age but I believe that you did. I don't even know how to ask but since you liked dolls does that mean you identified as male but also had a feminine side that co-existed with who you already were and if so did that remain even into adulthood. Not just the sexual preference (because you are still gay) but your interests in things that sort of bled over from what people would usually say were reserved for girls.

I never had any kind of need or opportunity to rebel against gender but sexuality was never discussed. Until the whole grooming side of things, it will sound terrible but I learned more from that person than I probably would have ever learned alone, and I no way condone it. I had to learn somewhere. That why I left this site for a couple of months. I saw people expressing something that I thought was quite normal, it didn't seem sexist. Maybe they could have balanced the conversation better. I just felt like sexual repression creates confusion and in my case I'd rather have known than not known. That's why everything was pulled, games, internet everything. They wanted me to completely nail him and the others to the wall but I wouldn't do it. He talked to me for three years when no one else would. In the end they diagnosed me with stockholm syndrome and started all of the legal proceedings without me. That's one of my fears for children growing up now in Russia. If they are confused because what they are feeling is taboo, will someone else come forward to fill in those blanks and will they have other intentions. It happens on games. I once joined a session on Wild Lands and there were two men and a boy who must have been thirteen at best. I listened to them talking for a couple of minutes then grabbed a headset so they knew someone else could hear them, they dropped the conversation and never said another word. If I'm going by what I've experienced then for every confused child there's at least ten adults who are willing to join the dots, even though they shouldn't be the ones to do it. That's just men. To me the women were the worst, people tell children not to talk to strange men when really they need to add women to that list.

(I keep checking when I hear a noise so my post keeps jumping. It's almost 4am I started trying to answer this two hours ago. I think it's a fox or something.)

I did shoot from a very young age though and still do (kind of a masculine activity) that was as close to that kind level of acceptability as it got and also it's seen as protecting yourself. It's also the culture, everyone knows the hard man culture that you see in memes about Russia. It's pushed hard from an early age on a lot of people and if you are weak you have to get tough. Most guys I know have more tattoos than I have platinum trophies and most girls conform to that softer image because that's expected. There are exceptions, older ways are just more acceptable, especially now when people are being very careful. Everywhere you look it's 'we're returning to the older ways' which now looks like the whole country. Just yesterday I heard we'll fight to the last soldier. My brain translated that as this will never end. I'm not just saying that for myself, people are dying on both sides for nothing and to me it makes no sense but I have to pretend it does and go along with it all.

I haven't met an openly gay Russian man, but I'm sure I've met some who could have been hiding their sexuality. It's statistically impossible not to have. By the same token I know plenty of women who like me like both, in-fact I know plenty of men who look at that preference as a trophy. My Ex included, my current not so much but obviously the arrangement suits him. I try not to think about it too much. In a way it's like taking sexuality and making it a novelty, an accepted novelty. Then taking the exact same thing, reversing the genders and saying it's wrong. That's why I call it a hypocrisy.

Tor is definitely my go to, Telegram not so much anymore. A deepweb chatroom doesn't sound like the brightest idea but I've met some really good, funny and chill people on there. Some are there because they are deviants and you already know what to expect so it's whatever but others are fairly normal people from countries that have similar restrictions. I was in a room earlier tonight and people were talking about TV shows, really tame stuff. I've seen an uptake in people using those rooms and the reasons for being there are more and more turning towards personal freedom and expression. Before it was boredom, curiosity, and whistleblowers. Now it's a kind of tool for social survival. I do have actual social interactions offline but I'm very selective, especially now that I'm not entirely sure of who I can trust. There's a very strong sense of if you see something say something, it was always there just never this extreme. I have to keep reminding myself that we are in an actual war and that changing your stance on something can actually be seen as treason. I'm not worried of anything legal happening, that's out of the question. I'm worried of my time in the UK being cut short because of maybe fostering doubts. Or maybe something else happening. If I added propaganda on top of that, it would be bad. I'm not calling it propaganda myself, that's just the current definition and how it would be put. I'll say this last bit and go to bed. I almost think that part of the fear is that if you talk about these things you might magically turn gay, which makes no sense. You either are or you aren't. And if it's not that then it has be portraying a tough national identity. If it's neither then they don't know either because 'it's wrong' followed by no explanation doesn't cut it.

Also whats does this part stand for? I+ I know I had another question but sleep and a little paranoia isn't helping me remember so I'll say goodnight.

@GirlVersusGame there's no way I could ever keep up with you, you are far too smart for me, haha. But I just wanted to ask/say. Why do you have to pretend that senseless wars based on what bit of land different people were squeezed out of their mothers on makes sense? (I feel this adequately highlights how dumb it is for the human race as a whole not to have learned from thousands of years of history) but no one can or ever will truly own you, and if the system is so broken that it feels like someone can, then that is the exact time to exit that system. To start anew for yourself.

Why do you fear your time in the UK would be cut short? You seem pretty independent and strong willed to me. I'd not dare challenge you, that's for sure. and I usually f***ing love a challenge 😁

You were mentioning being on edge and some paranoia, two things that definitely get worse with a lack of sleep and/or being overworked, so just make sure you take some time for yourself, do something purely for you and your own needs, and try to get some sleep.

Hopefully this is taken as intended, it probably sounds dumb as f***, or nosey, but my empathy is in overdrive. I may not ever understand in full, but I can recognise some signs, and sometimes people need to be reminded it is okay to put themselves and their own health and needs first. The same goes for Vermines, who I fear has already left the community here. I've not been able to keep up with much on the forums though, I very rarely do, as I mostly stick to just a few topics about fluff and stuff mostly when my phone finds my hands during bits of downtime or during menial tasks. But, I don't know. Lately it has felt like people maybe need some positive words, words that I admittedly suck at.

Yeahhhhh, so i'm going to trail off and end this as awkwardly as possible by denoting the awkwardness of the ending.

@Ravix Why do you have to pretend that senseless wars based on what bit of land different people were squeezed out of their mothers on makes sense?

• The hardliner stance means you have to follow the party line and not your heart. If the stance is to fight to the last soldier (on the opposing side) then you accept that as the goal. An aggressive push like that leads to a kind of forever war with the West and a permanent wartime economy (which sanctions don't affect, even-though people think they do) I see it as a war, others see it as a military operation. If the last soldier isn't an actual person but an idea then your enemy is eternal. They are going after a way of life, not just a piece of land. You see the piece of land but you don't see how the country/minds are being remolded and that's the danger. It lays the foundations for absolute control. Children who were told 'these people hate you' come of age and are more in line with your original goal. People think it's Putin, it's more than that and I can't elaborate there. Just that if you build a nation of people who feel slighted by other nations and then you give them the means to do something about it they will. The last time I turned on Netflix the first thing that came up on that auto play thing at the top was some kind of Tom Clancy looking movie and the first line was something like 'Russia are going to do such and such to the dollar and cause all out war' so I just closed the App and did something else.

The Soviet Union was it's own kind of war-time economy, then things shifted in the 90's and we essentially went to war with each other on the streets to secure industry etc (a reason why it's still dangerous even now, people hold grudges and that's why I learned to shoot because I'd rather shoot back) that was chaos. What's happening now isn't, it's done through absolute discipline. You don't poke holes in the system when you are so deeply ingrained into it. Blood is very thick. I'm being really careful with my words but there's a term to beat some sense into someone. It doesn't need to be done if they already think you already fell in line and stay in line. If it were a 'war' there's the option of a peaceful resolution but not when it's a military operation, not if the goal is so permanent and ongoing. I'm not mixing words when I say there are a lot of people who want to bring back the Russian Empire. It's easier to keep your head down when surrounded with that mindset. If I was told 'yes it's war' then maybe I could speak up a little, but right now I wouldn't dare. Do you remember the Z during the start of the invasion? I had to wear a small silver one of those, but 'lost it' for the victory day parade. The narrative has been rewritten, it's not being shown as innocent people losing their lives, it's being shown as something to have pride in. To fight for your country against the West - who now hates you.

The world press backed that up by making a big deal about freezing assets that in the end were a drop in an endless ocean to most of the people who they targeted. Most of those vessels were 'lost' too and magically appeared in Russian harbors. It all amounted to nothing. The only thing that it did achieve was polarization. We were told they are coming after our Identity and forcing the language out of children. Media was locked down, it creates confusion. If I think you hate me and you try to explain what you think is the truth, will I believe you over my own people/family/country? It's highly unlikely, especially in my case where they were there every step of the way either because home is dangerous and people need to be protected or (and I need to put this bluntly) children can be assets, they inherit, marry into other families, keep things solid. I say children because there is no distinction between age when it comes to that kind of system and I don't know another word for it. Perhaps there is as far as gender is concerned, which goes back to the hypocrisy I talked about with Tjuz. I can push myself hard to explore other industries that I really enjoy and accomplish a lot on my own (mostly) but family always comes first above all else and the only way you leave is when you are no longer physically here. You've heard of family honor I'm sure, cases of it spring up now and then in the UK among other communities. It's a lot like that, except that faith and religion are replaced with power and control. If wrongs are done the community protects whoever did it, and even then what's wrong to you might not be wrong to me because I see it as normal. I can't elaborate there either.

I wasn't watching the news when that invasion went ahead. I was on a game that had zone chat. Do you know what LFG is? looking for group. Lots of communities arrange runs and groups by nationality, it makes it easier for language so you LFG in your own language. I knew a lot of people on there and within an hour I lost half of my friends, last I checked maybe 30% are remaining. I think some were looking for a reason to do it. I was never an Elitist gamer but I did run with all kinds of players and if you have a shiny new horse and I don't then that creates resentment. The only difference is that I earned everything myself, but that's besides the point and either way I deleted all of those games. I'm done with that side of gaming for many different reasons.

When I did look to the media/news it was all 'get them out of the UK' everything was dragged up and I mean everything. They went from 'thank you for providing jobs' to 'take their passports and bar them from entry to the UK' I understand peoples views but to me it felt like hate, it's like pushing someone out of their safe haven. I did leave temporarily and of course that was the end of any Western media's input in my life. It's been a complete blackout, partly because I can't take it and partly because I don't want to make waves back home. I don't know what's going on in that conflict and didn't know what Vermines meant about the Supreme Court (which now I think shocked her) I couldn't tell you what's happening in the world even when I'm in those countries.

I'm not afraid of the UK government cutting my time short or taking away my passport. My concern with the situation is being brought from A to B without any say in the matter, that's really not a hard thing to achieve. It's not about some kind of fear of being cut off financially either, I don't care about that. There's no where I can go where the scenario of that A to B can't happen. So it's better to just agree and keep my head down. I'm somewhere else now and I'd rather just be playing Satisfactory than doing whatever it is we're supposed to be doing here.

The paranoia is there for a reason. It's not that I think my internet history etc is checked, I know it is. It goes back to what I said about being an asset, if you have a business asset you protect it. They don't see it as impeding on my privacy, they see it as protecting me from truths that I can't handle, and from asking all of the wrong questions. If I had a nervous breakdown (worse case scenario) the public face of that business gets questioned, I can't have that. It's not awkward to me it's normal, it's not an overnight thing. People all around the world live in a kind of bubble and there are all kinds of reasons for it. The biggest one I saw was the DPRK, who we share a border with, who are also a security state, strongly geared towards a one party rule. It's similar for some friends in the Middle East especially the UAE but that's part faith and part tribal. It's not my place to question their way of life. I don't question mine either, I'm happy in that things can always be worse and there are people around the world who have nothing and nobody. I've been pushed to believe and to accept but not to act, which again could be worse but isn't. I've never been forced to hurt anyone, that gender divide ensures that it will stay that way. Which is why I said to Tjuz that I never questioned gender, it protected me and gave a structure to things. By the same token it's easier to not break the rules when you know what they are. I appreciate the empathy but once you normalize something it becomes part of your natural understanding, and to me certain things are normal that wouldn't be to you. The difference comes from feeling, it feels wrong for me to demonize gay people, it feels wrong to me to push armed forces into an innocent country. It doesn't feel wrong to me to shoot back if someone shoots first, they didn't we did and that's where I began to question it. A policy that provokes a response only has one outcome. Maybe some other things feel wrong too but the brain and the heart are two different organs and careful separation between the two can be achieved under certain circumstances. You can remove that kind of empathy, I still have some of mine. Do I agree with scrutiny and a lack of privacy? I'm not sure, it's too much of a personal experience and I have run into trouble online before so I get it. I don't think you can miss something you never had.

Also nothing you asked is nosey or dumb. I understand it's weird to you, some things are weird to me too. I'm just good at holding back that surprise. At least in text, if it was an actual one to one conversation it would be more obvious. Whenever it did reach that point in the comments section I pulled back, waited a day or two and deleted everything. Part of me wants people to know what's really happening because I do think the blame gets diverted, the other says protect yourself and go play Minecraft. Remember my ten year London build? I lied, I built it because if I did ever have to leave the UK I'd still have access in a way. That's why I never shared it in the Minecraft community, I don't care about clout it's more of a back-up plan. The more perfect I can build it then the more realistic it becomes, it's something I'll always have and to me doing that is normal. If you can understand that logic you'll understand a lot of my other thinking. And by mine I mean no one pushed me to do it or think it, it's something I did for myself and will hopefully never have to use. But I do want to make it clear that I'm not unhappy per-say, everyone has good days and bad days, you make the best of every situation. I believe you can adapt to anything, especially if it has a clear structure and carefully laid parameters. The more you are exposed to both the less something like happiness or sadness can affect your thinking. Something just is because it is.There's no opportunity for it to be something else because that something else becomes a statistical impossibility. Once you can balance the contributing factors you can have a healthy happy life. I just want people to be happy, I thought the UK offered that to everyone. Vermines showed me otherwise, that's why I couldn't sleep. It's hard not to feel for someone under those circumstances. You don't need to feel for mine because it's normal to me. Her situation isn't normal to her and she has to live with that every day. I can go back to that under the radar status at the drop of a hat because it's already part of life as I see it. I don't want others to have to do the exact same thing for such different reasons, it benefits me but it doesn't benefit her or anyone else who are different. I'm not different, my situation is but I'm not my situation which is why I'm able to fit in when I need to. I'll adapt to any situation as long as I have to.

@Vermines It is really hard to respond without sounding condescending, but in as genuine a way as I can possibly broadcast via some random text on a forum. Don't worry about it. And if you are worrying about it, it is okay to step away =] (would you look at that, an old school smiley circa 2000 and something)

Your debut here had some incredibly deep emotional discussions, but if it is too heavy then it is okay to just chat about nonsense if that helps. I mostly chat nonsense on here anyway, as do many others. But the baseline will always be we want this community to be friendly, fun, supportive, sometimes challenging and as nerdy as f***ing possible, honestly.

You had vanished at the time, but this was kind of on my mind when I mentioned to Girlvsgame "sometimes people need to be reminded that it is okay to put themselves and their own health and needs first". Do what is best for you on and off the forum. You definitely don't need to justify yourself to this motley crew on here.

Again, I must end this as awkwardly as possi...

@GirlVersusGame I've definitely heard about TaTu and their connection to queer themes. Obviously everyone is familiar with "All The Things She Said", but it wasn't until much later that I found out they were considered so progressive back in the day. Like you said, it's at least some progress that they were able to show something like homosexual kissing at all, even if they weren't actually queer and actively rejected the label when it came to their personal lives. Nowadays, they're actually a perfect example of what people would call queerbaiting. Using queer themes to appeal to that demographic, but not actually engaging with it on any meaningful level. It's a shame to hear that even they had have to censor themselves in the current political climate, though. Queerbaiting or not, the fact that it's not even allowed at all anymore due to the propaganda is a step back in and of itself. And hey... if Lady Gaga is the only queer artist you could name, that's one hell of a place to start at least! One of the best we have to offer!

I totally get what you're saying in terms of how certain people are forced to act a certain way to conform to society's expecations, but that doing so when it's ingenuine to yourself will only put more of a target on your back eventually. As you said, I can imagine that goes for a lot more people than just the queer community within Russia, and it's a shame that that label will give off on any person who dares defy the expected standard. It's crazy to think that despite my growing up in a more open environment, the changes that I'm seeing within the countries I call home are stuff that you've been living with your whole life. I don't know what's the sadder part about that. The fact that when progress is made, it's apparently still so easy to regress to such a negative state. Or the fact that you've lived in that state for as long as you can remember with no progress to show for it, or as you said in the case of TaTu, possibly even further regression. I've talked with a Russian friend of mine about this topic before, who is in her early 20s and living in Berlin like myself nowadays, and she told me all about how her best friend who was gay in Russia had to hide his identity. He, as many others, had to be incredibly hush hush about it and use codenames for any queer-related activity in fear of retaliation against... just being yourself.

It's horrible that you had to leave your education because of discrimination. No child should be made to feel unwelcome at a place that's supposed to shape them for the rest of their life, whether that's socially or on an educational level. You make the distinction between discrimination between kids and adults, but if anything, that just goes to show that that level of prejudice can easily start at an early age and be brought with you into adulthood. If not, it shouldn't be an issue in either age group! It's good you're able to distance yourself from all that negativity nowadays by avoiding places like the news and social media, but it does sadden me to think that there'll always be something lost in that process. I don't want to speak for you, but I'd personally think it can make you feel pretty isolated from the rest of the world at times. You're preserving yourself and your own safety, but at the cost of letting yourself engage with the wider world and people. I don't blame you for it after everything you've said, but it's just a sad reality.

I'm lucky in the sense that I haven't experienced all that much discrimination on a personal level. My parents were accepting, my friends were unsurprised and I'm able to do the things I find interesting without having to fear my own safety too much. It's the benefits of my geological location more than anything, I'm sure. The worst I'll occasionally experience is some homophobic slur here and there out on the street, but it's never gotten to anything physically violent. I've even walked around in heavy makeup or drag at times, and I've always been able to feel safe.

I'm not really a sporty person, but you're really not far off when you suggest I'd enjoy ice skating, I think! The most interest I've ever had in actively watching a sport was figure skating, though I've never done it myself. Most of my experiences with ice skating ended with either my face or butt landing on the ice in an unpleasant way! I'm glad you were able to find enjoyment in it, despite initially being forced into it. It's important to have a good hobby that can give you satisfaction and distraction depending on however you feel at the time, and it sounds like it's served that purpose for you.

Yeah, I've always identified as male and never had any gender dysphoria. Like you correctly assumed though, I do feel rather feminine when it comes to my personality and interests. In a way, it almost pisses me off to have to write that considering the fact that nothing should be inherently seen as feminine or masculine, but for the sake of clarity I will stick with this terminology! My parents were luckily very laissez-faire when it came to what I engaged with. I'd ask for a Barbie movie box set or to go to a girl group concert, and they'd always be more than happy to provide it for me where possible. Most of my friends in school were girls, and they never mentioned it as anything weird even once. I'd be very extravagant and love glittery costumes when in talent shows or the like, and they never batted an eye as if that's not what a boy is supposed to wear. And yeah, a lot of these things remained throughout adulthood. I can't say I'm still obsessed with the Barbie movies, but I still mostly enjoy films that are either female-led or catered to women. I will still listen exclusively to female artists and go to concerts of theirs or to a drag show. I still have mostly female friends, and I will still happily put on make-up where I deem it appropriate! My feminine side hasn't left me at all, and it's always been where I felt the most comfortable. Put me in a bar with a bunch of men talking about chicks, watching football or talking about cars in very casual, masculine wear and I'll quickly feel out of place. It's why I prefer to frequent queer spots when going outside, because it ultimately does feel like it's the community I most fit in. It's obviously not that I have anything against people who enjoy any of those things and can still befriend them without problems, but I just know that in queer spots I'm more likely to find more common ground with the people I run into.

Sounds like you went through a very complicated relationship with this man. Like everyone else, I will always condemn grooming, but that in no way should erase the way you experienced it. Whether it was for better or worse in the end, I'm not going to make a judgment on, but I'm glad that you personally can look back on that time and see more than just negatives. If it would be just that, it'd have been a total waste of time and probably all the more painful to come out the other side of. Good intentions or not, having someone to listen to you and be there for you when you don't feel like you have anyone else is a powerful thing. It completely depends on the person if it becomes a remedy or if it brings you into a whole other set of issues, but the feeling of having someone there is the same for the individual nonetheless. For the record, I've never been groomed or the like, but I have been in abusive living situations since venturing out on my own with people I cared (and still do care) deeply for. People will be quick to judge and tell you to get out of there when you share exactly everything that's happening or happened, but it feels entirely different to live it and equally experience all the positive effects the relationship might have brought you. That's the thing that people always ignore, and understandably so, but is impossible to communicate to someone who hasn't been in a similar situation. Now still, our situations between grooming and what I've gone through are different beats altogether, but I think we do share some understanding on what that kind of conflicted relationship can feel like both during and afterwards. Horrifying to think you experienced second-hand what could've been the start of a grooming situation on Wild Lands though! It must be extra triggering for you having gone through it, but also made easier for you to recognise the signs and hopefully have been able to help by inserting yourself into the dynamic even just by listening in.

Am I correct in reading what you said as heterosexual men viewing being with a bisexual woman as a trophy of sorts? That surprises me. I'm not even sure what the thought process behind that would even be as why that's something noteworthy or inherently positive to have in a partner! It has honestly never occurred to me that the deep web could be for anything except illicit activity, so you're definitely shining a more positive light on what i didn't know it could mean to some. I have plenty of stuff to learn as well clearly, and it totally makes sense that that is a place where even regular folks might resort to if they feel like they have nowhere else to turn. I've never participated on anything in the deep web, but I know that for me being online and socialising there was an incredibly helpful lifeline through some really tough teen years. I might have searched it on the.... clear(?) web, but these chatrooms sound like they have the exact same effect, just in a slightly more secretive place. That's nothing to scoff at, and I'll always be in favour of anyone finding a safe space anywhere to interact and socially survive like you say. I'm not sure I would've made it through in the state I currently am without having had that, and coming out the other end a social butterfly and extrovert.

Ha! The argument some homphobes like to bring up where somehow being exposed to queer themes will magically turn everyone gay is always the funniest. It sure didn't make me turn out straight to see all the heterosexual Barbie romances on repeat as a child! And to answer your final question, the I in LGBTQI+ stands for intersex. The + is just for anything else that would fit the mold of our community but isn't explicitly named in the letters! You could also still make the acronym slightly longer with LGBTQIA+ (which is getting more and more often used), where the A stands for asexual.

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@Vermines Happy to see you back! Take all the time you need to adjust for however long you want to be here. Have a good start of your week!

As @Tjuz brought up queer artists @GirlVersusGame may or may not know, I thought I'd mention, Elton John. And I'd especially recommend the song 'Someone Saved My Life Tonight"

It has always fascinated me, and I'll include Queen and Freddie Mercury in this too. How America, and the world, let's be honest, were absolutely in love with these openly 'queer' artists. Progression, right? These were and still are genuine culture defining superstars. The stadiums they sold out in the US alone! I've only seen archive footage but, wow. It is unbelievable. And yet... it is in a country that has had, and still has severe issues with acceptance. I never understood it, I think I was raised in a lucky period of time between left over old fashioned attitudes and the rampant social media nonsense of today, or simply rasied by people that didn't impose any views of hatred or prejudice on me, maybe i'm lucky, but I thought we were simply evolving to not need these things to divide us, but then if you accidentally flick on the news at the wrong moment, speak to the wrong person, read the wrong part of the Internet it is like nothing ever actually changed and a world I thought was getting better feels more closed in now. I feel it is the Internet that takes most responsibility. It allows echo chambers and propaganda to spread with ease, vocal minorities can feel like global majorities. It is, quite frankly, pretty f***ed up the things you see.

My own favourite queer artist might be Michael Stipe of R.E.M I have never really delved deep into his personal life or anything, I simply enjoy the raw emotion and beauty he brings to performances, it resonates, it is real, and I think a lot of that stems from what makes him tick emotionally, obviously, it is natural to him and cannot be faked. I don't think he really associates with a sexuality as such, and a quick google led me to see he has always identified as queer, not gay nor straight, nor bi, simply queer.

@Tjuz I'll reply to some of this, then read more and reply tomorrow with an edit.
What does intersex mean?

I don't want to speak for you, but I'd personally think it can make you feel pretty isolated from the rest of the world at times. You're preserving yourself and your own safety, but at the cost of letting yourself engage with the wider world and people.

• That's incredibly accurate. It's like if you converted socializing to the path a Yo-yo takes, you slowly let it out and when it reaches a certain point you change the motion of that control point and retract it back to it's original form. If you do it too fast or two hard you could break the string and it hits the floor. I'm not being facetious but the correct way to learn to throw a Yo-yo is with a straight throw. So that probably doesn't help if you do want to deviate it's trajectory and learn some tricks that are no offense, not as straight.

You make the distinction between discrimination between kids and adults, but if anything, that just goes to show that that level of prejudice can easily start at an early age and be brought with you into adulthood.

• Also very true. I think it gets muddied up further when you don't realize that the discrimination is actually occurring because from day one what you were told appears to be factual and if it doesn't affect you personally you have no reason to question it. If anything it just gets added to the list of things that are wrong or unacceptable. It's a big list. The list of things that are acceptable becomes 'it's right because I said it's right', again with no explanation given. That's why I told Ravix in another post that I might be decades behind in some of my views but it's never personal. It's like taking the remnants of a system, finding what went wrong and then reintroducing those concepts and ideas to try to rebuild that system with a much more solid foundation. Once you have the foundation down you can brace the structure with further reinforcement. You can then build a careful facade around that structure, the structure would have an internal purpose but the passing observer would only see what was outwardly presented. They'd be none the wiser, until cracks started to appear and then maybe they'd get little glimpses. I won't repeat what I saw on social media, you can probably guess. Some images stay with you. I understand an eye for an eye, I can't shake that mindset. I don't believe in that kind of unprovoked brutality. A population of 140+ million people can't be okay with that.

@Vermines Oh you didn't, I kept leaving and returning to that device and missed that you were back. I didn't type in the topic box I typed it somewhere else then copy pasted it, hit post and went to bed. I think you are quite brilliant and I'm really impressed that you took such a big step. I just hadn't seen that perspective of the UK and it shocked me, you didn't, the situation of the UK did. Like I said the UK was a safe haven to me, I had thought it afforded the same security to it's own citizens. I was disappointed to hear that there was a whole society of people who were struggling just to be themselves. Do we have transpeople in Russia? I have no idea, I know we have or had gay people. People are people and nature is nature, you either take them as they present themselves or not at all.

The idea of a transperson doesn't make me stop and try to understand that concept, it's obviously having the mind of one gender but being born into the body of another. I'm sorry if I'm simplifying it but I think of it as nature. You use your mind to form words and then string together sentences, if that mind is female then that's all I see. I don't question it. I'm not sure what you mean about your avatar? other than thinking 'damn now I want blue hair too' nothing phased me, I don't judge people by looks and you aren't bad looking (I hope you don't think you are) In my own case there's a kind of pressure that accompanies how I present myself, most of the time it's for someone else. You understand what I mean, but I can also understand that you too feel a kind of pressure as to how you present yourself and it's possible that the pressure is coming from the mirror. As in your are the one telling yourself that you can do better. That doesn't mean you should listen to that kind of inner monologue, it might send you in circles.

As for provocative? again if you were I didn't see it, or it didn't register. Don't feel obliged to explain anything to me, I understand that you aren't in a good place (all the time) mentally and maybe I was once there too but like you said I developed a system of compartmentalized thought, that probably extends to feelings too.

@Ravix Elton, a classic! I don't think I'm even personally aware of "Someone Saved My Life Tonight", so I'll have to girl that a whirl. I'm mostly familiar with the hits, haha. It is crazy like you said that people like him or Freddie Mercury or even David Bowie were all beloved cultural touchstones and are to this day, yet somehow these people still find it in themselves to deal in prejudice. My father loved Queen, and in extension Freddie Mercury, and he would also still throw homophobic slurs before my coming out. Luckily, I haven't him saying anything like that even once after I did. More proof people can change, and that a lot of this just comes from ignorance. Not even exposure through idolisation can be enough to change, but it's possible for many people who aren't outright hateful. I think you're right to say that the internet and its very many echo chambers has only exacerbated the issue. Ignorance is almost easier than ever.

I'm not really familiar with R.E.M. outside of knowing they exist, but I'll give it a shot to see what they're like! High praise.

@Ravix @Tjuz I'll second Queen and Elton John, and will give George Michael a shout also. I consider his album "Older" one of the crown jewels in my vinyl collection, a jewel socket that was empty for a long time due to it being insanely expensive up until the re-pressing not too long ago. I love his other solo albums as well, but "Older" is in a whole separate league, in my opinion.
I would heartily recommend watching the documentary that came out a short while ago on Netflix, simply titled "Wham!" - you get a real feel for how much he struggled with being famous and closeted.

@Tjuz Am I correct in reading what you said as heterosexual men viewing being with a bisexual woman as a trophy of sorts? That surprises me. I'm not even sure what the thought process behind that would even be as why that's something noteworthy or inherently positive to have in a partner!

• This is a hard question to answer and my answer doesn't apply to all heterosexual men. When I first dated I did attempt a 'normal' relationship. I'll warn you in advance that there was an age difference but I was nineteen, more than the legal age. He was forty something. I met him in a normal bar that I frequented, then a week later he took me to dinner and afterwards we went back to his place where after some wine things transpired as they do.

He stopped dead in his tracks. Said 'I really like you but I can't hurt you', I looked up and he was actually crying. I'd never seen a grown man cry and haven't since. He then sat me back on sofa and said that I needed to remember what he was about to tell me. None of what he said registered. I don't know if you've ever been near a high caliber rifle without earplugs, you hear both the explosion that propels the round and a kind of reverberation if you are inside. It was like that, I don't know what he said, none of it. A car came and I left. I don't know what he saw, or what he picked up on because we never discussed preferences. I was experimenting with normality and some how it lead to his reaction.

The second guy was similar in that we went to dinner then back to his place for drinks. He left the room and instead of returning with drinks said 'I'm sorry this was a mistake' then he drove me home himself (he didn't wait for that car) he drove like the wind, then he passed me a plush cat (which I still have) with some chocolates and I never saw him again. The third was a pilot and I'm saying that because he told me he'd never actually been able to discuss aviation during a dinner before. I like aviation, the mechanics of flight and like spending time in the cockpit, to him that was something unique. Then once again after dinner we went back to his place and before even mentioning drinks there it was again 'sorry I made a mistake, we better get you home'.

At time time I thought I was doing something wrong. I gave up looking and instead opted for a kind of arranged system. You've heard of arranged marriages? It's the same thinking without a ring and without singular commitment. It also temporarily brings families together if the interested parties are partners in business too, or if their parents are. That's what I've been doing ever since those three initial attempts and it works. Part of me wonders if the first three were deliberately scared off, were they told before we even went out that night to do X, Y and skip Z. Or did they receive a text. It was too much of a coincidence, they said the exact same thing word for word. Either way no one said and I didn't ask.

Those three had a different mentality than those since, all of whom were arranged. I can give an example that you might not like but it fits what I meant by trophy or perhaps I used the wrong word.

Two weeks ago we were all three out for dinner (I'm keeping this PG) something happened under the table, quite subtle. My Partner then went outside for a cigarette and we followed for some air. Someone walked out on the terrace, approached him and said 'I need to ask what you do? are you a pornstar or something' I'm not sure how I reacted but I definitely made a noise. My Partner laughed and said no, then he offered one of us to that person. He considered the offer for a moment or too, politely declined then continued to make small talk. That person then went back inside and shortly after so did we. That offer he made was a courtesy, and again I'm of age so it's perfectly within the law. That's kind of what I mean by a trophy. It's like taking sexual orientation and being able to use it to your advantage. The person saw two women first and that formed his approach, he was curious. The problem becomes would I be happy if he'd have said yes, I can't answer that.

There are two reflections. The one you see when you have to face yourself in the mirror, everyone experiences that. The other is how your behavior reflects on another person, had I said 'absolutely not' then someone may have seen that as a reflection of my Partner's ability to keep his girl in line. If he can't then questions might arise such as how does he keep his business in line? He might even appear weak to be putting up with back-talk or stubbornness. I'm being careful with my words I know it's 2025. That's a recent example of what I mean when I say that kind of a dynamic can be seen as a trophy or an asset. It can start a dialogue regardless of gender. There's also the courtesy side of it too that you absolutely would not agree with, and something I can absolutely not expand too much on.

You said people are quick to judge what they don't understand and that would be a perfect example of that statement. They'd jump to all kinds of conclusions based on their impressions and understanding of the situation but they'll never understand the underlying reasons as to why an arrangement like that might exist. That person was given the option to consent, it wasn't implied it was expressly given. He made his choice, my choice was circumvented through a kind of Intermediary of sorts. That kind of courtesy then becomes plausible deniability. So yes some people would see that level of accessibility as a kind of trophy. If it were done as a purposeful tactic then you could argue that you are weaponizing sexuality but for that to even work you'd have to use direct involvement against the person. It's a very grey area. I was trying to think of a more recent example that was as equally tame, that's the one that stood out.

I think people need to be careful when they choose a lifestyle that is so outside of the socially accepted norm, it's not always a picnic but neither is sitting beside a grown man who was brought to tears because of how incompatible you are with that socially accepted norm.

@Tjuz My music tastes wildly vary, but emotion and raw feeling are usually what I gravitate towards, and I always had access to old cd's of Queen and Elton John from my mum and dad, same with R.E.M, I suppose and a bunch of varied stuff. I'm probably more on the counter-culture side of the fence, but I like anything that resonates with me, or makes me feel, regardless of genre ir popularity.

It's probably not the time for it, and I don't want to introduce any woke vs not woke debates. But it also fascinates me how "media is woke now" is a common theme, when I feel music is so far removed from what it used to be that the opposite can be said. So mucymh popular music is about being famous or getting money, or getting laid, or weak ass standardised "romance" drivel, or absolutely f*** all of inportance, just total nonsense words slapped together lacking all emotion and creativity. A lot of it is just fluff. And yet music was always a driving factor in rebellion, saying what you believe in, how you feel about society, what emotions really drive you and how that relates to you (not the image you are trying to create), all these things that would be considered "woke" today. Cinema was always smart and had a message, but now it is The Fast and Furious-er Eleventy One: Maximum Family 🤷‍♂️ I do believe some modern creatives that try to include a message are about as subtle as a brick to the skull, too, but that is completely a talent issue, not a belief issue. And of course there are still a lot of good things in all media, but still. All things cinsidered it always confuses me when the arguments start, and people act like believing in something as a creative has only existed for ~10 years. Art, poetry, books, people have always writen and created from their own experiences and with their own beliefs as a guide.

It was a tangent, but it is something that has been lurking in the back of my mind for quite a while, the state of some of the vapid entertainment that lacks any real soul is far more of an issue than stuff that has a message that is a bit clunky. Most things becoming diluted by streaming services and wavering attention spans.

I feel like what you mentioned about your dad is maybe quite a common thing, whereby they may use words without really understanding the impact or really feeling strongly about the issues, especially when it is then presented to them by someone they love. Obviously a lot of people still have issues, which is saddening, and hopefully your story is nore positive, but sometimes it is literally just their upbringing and the first time it is really presented to them in a way that requires that to be questioned by them they kind of snap out of it, a bit. I have no experience with it in that sense, but I can recall schooldays where even though i'd only ever stay friends with someone that isn't genuinely hateful, and nearly all of my closest school friends were big emo empaths of some variety, like me, that some, including me, at times would still use various slurs (or not even slurs, sometimes simply using "gay" as a throwaway insult) just because it was the popular choice of language at the time. Like, I know from my perspective I was just too stupid and throwaway with words to even consider things then as anything more than just sounds that we make, honestly. And I remember one friend I met later at another school was like "why do you say things like that, it is not an insult and makes no sense" and I thought about it beyond just being noises and agreed instantly and never did again. Simple as that, for me. Part of it was probably because I acted like a chameleon and was able to move through many different friend groups who each had their own language styles and quirks, and i'd picked that up mon the more 'football oriented' side of my freind pool, but I know from that point on i'd actively encourage anyone else that did that same thing to think about it and just stop as it isn't needed, it doesn't benefit anyone, and it could hurt someone, even if it is so far removed from your own intentions you don't even realise.

An open mind is all anyone ever actually needs to enjoy their life more. It opens access to so many more opportunities, and it is properly perplexing that more people don't see that 🤷‍♂️

I hope you brought a flask of something tasty and got nice and comfy before reading all of that 😅

And... Oh yes, definitely seek out that Elton song. It is one of those you can tell means so much to him, and the story behind it is probably far too common, even if exaggerated through fame in his case. And R.E.M gosh, Michael Stipe is a wonderfully damaged, beautiful human spirit, and you can hear it in his performances. I'd recommend "Country Feedback" "nightswimming" "pretty persuasion" but there's too many to list, so I will stop. But two of those are less mainstream and worth mentioning for that. Country Feedback kills my composure every time.

Are you someone that likes to delve into various music regardless of age/genre etc? Or do you have a certain subset or genre you gravitate toward? I might as well extend the music chat in the chit chat thread, as it ties in to the other things too

@Tjuz Sounds like you went through a very complicated relationship with this man. Like everyone else, I will always condemn grooming, but that in no way should erase the way you experienced it. Whether it was for better or worse in the end, I'm not going to make a judgment on, but I'm glad that you personally can look back on that time and see more than just negatives.

• It's a dark practice, very dark. It was initiated through deception, which does bother me. I see nothing good from telling a child that the other girl you were speaking to died in a car accident (she never existed) he could have just said that he was behind all of those profiles, he did two years later. You need a lot of cunning to be able to manipulate someone to follow you across the web like that. It was all so subtle. His first step was 'it's late aren't you tired?' that looks like concern, so you agree and do just that. The next night it's 'look at the time you should go to bed', followed by night number three 'it's time for bed'. It creeps up on you and becomes acceptable behavior, a routine. It doesn't take much work after that to get you from that once safe site to another App/site/etc.

The whole thing was very, very odd. He could of done what he wanted but had restraint, it was more about showing what he could do than actually doing it. There were one hundred and twenty active users and I knew them all by name, I even knew their pets names. They'd share so much, I assume they trusted that I wouldn't tell anyone. I think the biggest shock to me was that so many average every day 'normal' people were the ones who were the ones who created the demand. That's where the distinction of 'normal' started to warp. As the years went on he softened and (I think) started to see me as a person, I talked a lot (shocking I know) and I don't think he was ready for that. I should have been scared but I wasn't and most of what did get passed around was never shown to me (thankfully) The one thing he did do early on was give me a URL and a password, tell me to go look, then come back to him the next day with my thoughts on what I saw. I did and he seemed satisfied by my feedback. I really should hate him right? I would if I could.

I hate that the situation can and does exist where a child can have their naivety used against them, but I'm grateful that mine was more specific, it kept me safe, or rather he did. I did meet people who were absolutely terrifying. Not everyone who identifies as Dominant by nature are Sadistic by nature but a Sadist is generally both. The first doesn't explicitly want to harm you, they understand the difference between discipline and in punishment. They make those lines clear because they want you to understand why a certain action has an accompanying reaction. It prevents you making that mistake again. A Sadist on the other-hand has to hurt you physically, mentally, or emotionally, it's wired into their code. Those are the ones I feared, you don't know what they are thinking, or how they are going to react. The phrase you used to walk on egg-shells, it's exactly that. I never felt it with anyone else but those types. I did ask questions and did get answers but I can never be sure if they were correct.

There are all kinds of people like that out there. Three more that come to mind were related to gaming. The first approached me one day and started complementing a horse I had in a game. We struck up a conversation. He started sharing videos of My Little Pony (the children's show) followed by music videos (fans make pony music) a couple of weeks later it was art and that's where things got more serious. His whole thing at the start was 'I can help you with English I'm actually a Teacher' The part he left out was that he'd been removed from his last school because a student made a complaint. Apparently you can do bad things in some schools then be moved to the next and not go straight to jail.

The next was similar but with Anime, and the third like I mentioned before was when I was of age and he caught three years for what he was doing offline. There were so many others scattered around different games. Just recently there was a trophy article and it talked about platinum trophies. Mine was from Littlebigplanet and I didn't even know what trophies were, my 'friend' did and once again it was the same story.

The point I'm making is that people look for boogeymen at the top of the food-chain when really they need to be looking at their neighbours Barney and Fred. Maybe even Wilma too, the women I knew in that group were awful. Worse than the men. The organization I affiliate with (discretely) works to find those Barney's, Fred's and Wilma's before they can offend. My input is in resources which then provide logistics, I also share details of how those groups work (though it all changes with technology) the Apps, and so on. That group did get taken down, unfortunately evidence in a setting like that only goes so far, victims need names and faces, distribution doesn't but so much of that side was purposefully kept from me and I don't identify as a victim even-though there was offline interaction too.

At it's core it was multicultural and as you can imagine different countries handle it differently, I'm sure some did get away unscathed. I was too young and too 'but they are my friends' to do anything about it then, I really did think they were my friends. It's December now and that's a perfect example of why I said friends. One December 25th (Christmas for you, different calendar) I did login to see who was around and sure enough someone did come online and spent most of the day talking to me. He trusted that person enough to know that they wouldn't do or say anything untoward, they were true to their word. It reinforced that idea of friendship which then made it even harder for me to ever turn on them.

That's why I reacted the way I did with that Wild Lands situation. There was no trigger, trauma or anxiety to it. I heard what they were saying and just knew what they were up to, especially when working in a pair. I don't think it's up to Sony, I think it's up the parents. If you neglect a child you leave that door open to an outside influence. I imagine (though can't prove) that early sexual confusion heightens the risk of a child going to that kind of a person for answers, simply because they are scared to tell a family member. The person in the middle then slowly begins to take the place of those parents, they become your go to for all life's answers, curious musings and simple everyday companionship. You don't even realize the trade-off took place, it's routine. As an adult I get little bread crumbs that return, I suppose you could call them memories, names, and so on followed by a lot of deep thinking. I was deep thinking for the last half hour.