@JohnnyShoulder and living in Sweden now he's made me miss Branston Pickle... god damn it I want a ploughman's sandwich now.
@BAMozzy ah see, they're still not talking about the GPU. Also Jason Ronald makes the multi-tier development environment sound so easy and fun... hmm... they all do. It. Is. Not. But what ya gonna do? Interesting to see they've actually shown stuff on XSS now, but still nothing on XSX. I don't get that, because it's not like the XSX has any issues or anything. Weird.
@SirAngry They haven't shown a lot on XSX yet - but they have shown at least Gears 5 and Minecraft Ray Tracing running on Series X - plus a few other games in their quick resume demo. Also showed Ori at 120fps - albeit slowed down to show the difference between 60 and 120fps. I know its not a lot, and its mostly games we already have access to - not new games. Its difficult to know if 'every' trailer with any 'game-play' has been taken from Series X or not - the fact that a lot hasn't been 'specified' as running on Series X doesn't necessarily mean its ALL been PC either. Maybe we will finally get some 'new' Series X game-play coming up this month...
Anyway, regardless of that, the Series S is not the same approach to next gen as Sony have taken with the PS5 All Digital... to get back on topic
@BAMozzy hate to tell you, but the 120fps demo of Ori was running on PC, and the other games were running on PC too. I'm not sure why that's the case at this point. They have shown the BC capabilities of the XSX though. My confusion is that it's not like we haven't got code up and running on the XSX, we have, loads of studios have, sure it's probably not perfectly optimised yet, but it exists.
@nessisonett Yeah, I get that. Darn good deal really if you’re not fussed about the technical side of things which I imagine the majority of people aren’t.
@Thrillho Even then, you can get the Series S for £21 a month or the Series X for £28. That’s way less than I spend on my phone so I could see plenty people seeing it that way.
@BAMozzy facepalm, I said BC stuff had been shown on XSX. But that is it. Most of the other stuff has been target renders on PC for XSX. Sony have approached this quite differently. They only want to show footage if it was captured on PS5 hardware. My point is, as a developer I find Microsoft's approach odd, because we have dev kits, a fairly mature SDK, and most people I chat with have games up and running on XSX, so it's just strange no one has shown XSX footage of a new game yet. I'm sure it is coming though, it kinda has to be this close.
As to the differences in strategy, yeah, it's pretty clear Sony and Microsoft are taking very, very different routes this generation. I'm told Sony considered a PS5 budget model too by those who have been involved in technical discussion with them. Why they chose not to go that route I'm not sure. Maybe studio heads simply said please don't do that to us. I know the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro really, really pushed studio costs and development cost up, and it did not make the bean counters happy at all in the two studios I worked during that period.
I know the XSS is not viewed kindly at 2 of the 3 studios I freelance for. There's always gripes around multi-tiered development, it's not just image quality that you have to think about. For my side of things I just need a nice chunk of CPU time, so for me honestly my stuff across XSS and XSX is no different really. There's not much difference to the PS5 either, so it doesn't grind my gears as it does others I know.
What I'll be interested to see is if in 2 to 3 years time if we have an Xbox Series Y and 2 to 3 years after that we get an Xbox series Z. Because I think that's where Microsoft want to head with this. Their propaganda at developer conferences for the past 3 years has been about "blurring barriers between devices" and now we've had "blurring barriers between generational shifts towards iterative hardware developments". It's interesting to me personally that they seem to want to push down this route. It makes sense for them because they now view the hardware as nothing more than subscription delivery services.
@SirAngry Look you not like but it a fact, your talking bull. Show me a RDNA GPU that can hold those clock speeds? Or do think AMD just left performance on the table to help Nvidia out. If they could hold those speeds they would. They don't because they can't. The PS5 is 10.2 FP32 TFOLPs for a second or two. It will hold 9 TFOLPs or there about.
My mussing of what the Series S will be is just that, a total thumb suck based on what we see being fabbed by AMD and the cooling solution in place. I claim no more no less. We will find out what the facts are when details are released or when it gets chip gets imaged. If its around 4 I doubt MS will give out the info, If its around 7 I'm sure they will.
@SirAngry I don't want to get into an argument about this but I see Gears 5 and Minecraft RT as more like next gen Remasters - not an example of their Back Compatibility. To me, if the Dev has to do ANY work to enhance the game, then that stops it being just a BC title. On BC, Gears 5 may run better on Series X - more stable and higher frame rates due to having more hardware resources - but its not going to run above the 'cap' of 60fps or have all the settings turned up to Max. Minecraft isn't going to support full path tracing without Developers adding that in. Both of these do more than some games sold as remasters which seem to have nothing more than a res boost - a 'relatively' simple tweak (it seems) to the output resolution setting.
Back in July, the Coalition provided a list of improvements:-
The full list of improvements currently are:
Contact Shadows
Screen Space Global Illumination
50% higher particles counts than that on the PC’s ultra spec
Real time cinematics in 4K 60fps
Higher resolution textures
Improved Anisotropic Filtering
Higher Resolution Volume Fog
Higher quality Depth of Field
Extremely far Draw Distances with high level of object detail
Shadow Resolution & Shadow Distance
High quality Screen Space Reflections
Post Processing improvements like Bloom, Lens Flare, Light Shafts, etc.
Investigating 120fps multiplayer support
It seems the last one has been more than 'investigated' now, but you don't get that from BC - you get that from a 'Remaster' as far as I am concerned.
As a consumer, I cannot comment on the dev side of things or how they perceive MS's strategy. To me, it seems they are trying to amalgamate ALL of MS gaming (inc PC and Mobile) into one. The Series S/X isn't all that different to releasing a lower end GPU and a higher end GPU and all that BC is pretty much what PC gamers get to enjoy too. Xbox isn't 'just' the Console anymore, the console isn't a separate entity to MS's gaming division, it IS MS's gaming division and includes PC/Mobiles too. How difficult it is for a Dev to put in some line of code that basically says 'if running on Series S, cap res at 1440p and if running on Series X, Cap res at 4k'. I know its probably not quite as simple as that.
I wouldn't be surprised if we do see a 'rolling' system in place - every 3-4yrs, a higher spec comes out - like we see new CPU/GPU's coming to PC's every year or so. They may want to keep a lower spec and higher spec version on the market to keep up with PC's - after all, PC's are part of the Xbox Ecosystem too...
Anyway, I didn't really want to turn this into a discussion. Sony have their own Strategy moving forward and could no-doubt bring out a Pro PS5 in a few years too and every 6-7yrs, start a 'new' gen as opposed to a rolling strategy. To me, it seems Sony are sticking to a more traditional console strategy whilst MS seem to be employing a more PC style approach.
A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!
Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??
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I work with these systems. The PS5 maintains it's higher clocks for the vast majority of the time. Much of the stuff Sony is pushing this generation around geometry, pixel fill rate and BVH requires faster clock cycles to get to what they want. More compute units don't help. Simply put certain tasks prefer higher clocks. So I'll stick with my real world experience thanks.
@BAMozzy you see, I see all that as a performance patch. lol. But I guess that's our differing perspectives, the underlying geometry and logic isn't really all that different, but I do take your point regarding some of this generations remasters. Some certainly weren't remasters but were more "ports" I guess I'd call them.
As to the strategies? As I said, they're different, I'm going to be an interested observer of this generation where Microsoft is concerned, because I personally see no point in me owning an Xbox. I've got a decent enough PC that might require a kick in the GPU pants, but for me that's a better investment. I actually appreciate that Microsoft are trying to do something very much different. If they stuck with the same strategy as Sony they'd have most likely been steam rollered again. They had to do something different, and I for one am intrigued to see how it pans out.
@HMazzy111 I've been saying for a while I expect the PS5 SE to come in at no more than $499.99, which would give it price parity with the announced XSX price point. But I can actually see a scenario where the PS5 SE comes in at $449.99 and the PS5 DE comes in at $349.99. So about £370 for PS5 SE and £280 for PS5 DE. Still expect the PS5 SE to be $499.99 and the PS5 DE to be $399.99 though.
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Topic: PS5 Digital vs. XSS
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