'We Will Fix This' Says Star Wars Battlefront 2 Dev as Loot Box Outrage Rumbles On

This is just getting more embarrassing for them

Too many imbalances from this game. The loot crates yes, but also the way to use bonus characters. It seems only the top players will get to use them as the will rack up the points much faster. I preferred the original where an icon randomly pops up and anyone can pick it up.

It's made it on to the BBC. I smell change.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41997252

"We want to make a game that you love,"

simple DON'T make the whole game, including character unlocks and progression run around a random lootbox system

let people who pay £60 for your game ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO UNLOCK ALL THE FEATURES OF THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY EXTRA FOR IT

if this is what they was going to do instead of season passes and DLC i would rather they stuck with the season passes and DLC

@get2sammyb Meanwhile Respawn signed a contract somewhere and they're now under EA too. I feel sorry for the devs too, I'm certain they worked hard on this game, but they can't be oblivious to these practices too, can they? They know very well that working under EA means bollocks like this.

Fortunately, most of the ''hate'' is geared towards EA, and not DICE, I haven't seen anyone calling them out specifically. And as per usual, if you strip the game of it unnecessary loot box fluff, I'm certain there's a decent game underneath. Which makes this whole ordeal even more frustrating.

No redeeming themselves at this point, hell they can't even get their answers to not contradict each other. Might as well just come out and say "EA made us do it" and resign. Unless they enjoy being attached to these scummy practices.

EA be like: Oh no you wont

This game is literally free to play mobile game on console with $60 price, what the hell is ea thinking? Why can they look into more successful game with micro-transaction/loot-box like overwatch or pubg or rocket league? It's still suck but at least it's only cosmetic.

I feel sorry for dice though.

As I've stated on other articles I almost exclusive play Single Player Games (exceptions for Soulsbourne types) so this largely doesn't effect me. That being said its nice to see the gaming community band together to say enough is enough, the only question is if it will work; it only takes on person to plop down $15K in lootboxes (which IS apparently a thing) to make up for a lot of lost sales.

The changes they make will need to be quick and swift because they're seriously using up their good will. Obviously a lot of people bought the game despite all the back lash due to the title being Star Wars. A lot of them believe things will be smoothed out with time, but I imagine even they would be fast to get sick of this loot crate progression system. In fact a lot of people who never followed this news probably are now surprised this has same model as a free to play mobile game.

I have the game and I wouldn't say its 'bad' overall. The campaign is somewhat average - what I have played so far anyway but its not very long, disjointed and, I believe, is open ended allowing for sequels and/or DLC.

The MP itself is improved over last year in actual game-play but it is very limited - only 5 modes but only 2 of any real significance. The other 3 are small TDM (Blast) battles - no vehicles or heroes, Heroes vs Villains - another small mode and obvious what that involves and a mode of small 'objective' based battles (not played this yet). The main 2 are the assault modes.

As for Star Cards, they do give you an unfair advantage over others. It doesn't take long to get to Lvl 20 which opens up crafting and equipping multiple star cards. You can have the most agile A-wing, with much more 'damage' output whilst also taking less damage - effectively giving you the most mobile (enabling them to out turn you, evade or be aggressive in attack), most deadly and best protected vehicle in the sky - If that's 'balanced' I'd like to know how?. Levelcap (a youtuber) spent $100 on loot crates and admits he is dominating thanks to the 'loot' and crafting materials he gained. Of course, he does still get killed if someone gets the drop on him or ganged up on but he thinks it would take 'months' to get to where he has by simply paying money.

Part of the reason I haven't completed the campaign is because they dropped the 'credit' reward for beating it to 5000 - from 20000. A loot crate costs between 2200 and 4000 (ish - I can't remember having not bought one with my credits earned). You don't get a 'lot' of credits for playing matches - more for the assault modes but it takes a fair few matches just to earn enough to buy the cheapest crate.

@FullbringIchigo Its no point saying "let people who pay £60 for your game ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO UNLOCK ALL THE FEATURES OF THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY FOR IT" as ALL the content is unlockable via in game play - at least what I have seen. You can buy Heroes, Star Cards, upgrades etc with 'credits' earned through play, and grind to unlock all the weapons/attachments. Not sure if the 'cosmetic' items like stupid emotes etc are unlockable via play though.

The issue here though is that you have to spend vast amounts of time to earn 'enough' credits to unlock 'everything' - assuming you didn't open loot crates - which are the main source of 'crafting' parts needed to upgrade those Star Cards (you can buy) to the 'best' levels in the game. If you have a 'favourite' hero for example, it costs 1,000s of credits to purchase that 'Hero' - assuming you don't get lucky in a loot crate. Then credits to buy the star cards at their most basic level, credits and Crafting parts to upgrade those etc etc. That's just for 1 hero - then multiply that up for ALL the characters, all the vehicles and all the 'Class' specific star cards/upgrades - its a joke!

Granted you can't get the 'best' Star Card tier in Loot crates as these have to be upgraded - again using credits. However, you can get lucky and get the next tier down from Loot crates, and if you have bought enough loot crates, chances are, once you reach level 20, you can buy the best tier upgrade.

Like I said, the issue here isn't the fact that you can't get everything (apart from maybe cosmetics) from just playing, its the fact that you can 'buy' the advantage with real money instead of spending months and months to get on an 'even' playing field.

Its a F2P/P2W model essentially where those that spend additional money get the 'best' items and significant advantages over those that 'grind'. Its 'almost' forcing you to spend to keep up rather than being cannon fodder. All this talk of skill doesn't matter. A noob with a lot of money always has the advantage but a 'skilled' player can still kill these players - but only if they put themselves in the advantageous positions - like flanking behind them. they won't win a face to face straight out gunfight (unless that noob can't aim at all).

This is the 'big' issue with the loot crate system here. Its not like say 'Call of Duty' (I know that will no doubt change in the upcoming months) where the loot crates are 'cosmetic' - even if you can't get those cosmetics any other way. The issue is that these are game changing items, giving those who spend an advantage over those who don't. Eventually, if you play thousands and thousands of hours, you could actually be as 'powerful' and as well equipped as those who spent real money. To go back to CoD, that would be like having all the 'Perks' behind 'RNG loot boxes with those perks having 4/5tiers. You want Stopping Power, buy loot crates or play 3-4 matches to buy that perk - although the bought perk only gives 5% damage bonus compared to the 30% potential in a loot crate - want to upgrade that Perk after buying, you need to open loot crates (thus reducing your credits to buy other perks) to get crafting parts - enough to upgrade 3/4 times to get the 30% bonus and another 1 upgrade to get 40% bonus. That person who bought £100 of loot crates would have got lots of crating parts to instantly upgrade to 40% - let alone all the 'other' perks, score streaks (after all that's what Heroes and Vehicles are now in SWBF2) weapons (that you could unlock by getting 100's of kills with a certain class) attachments (that you could unlock by getting hundreds of kills with that specific weapon) etc. By the time you reach level 20 and can equip 3 perks, you only have 1 mediocre Perk whilst the guy who spent real money on loot crates has all 3 perk slots filled, all at top tier and all the best Score streaks (all buffed to be more powerful etc)

I know I have yet again gone on and on - but I hope I have illustrated why SWBF2 has been heavily criticised and why others far less so. Its not a simple case of everything should be in the full price AAA game - not behind 'loot crates' because ALL the game changing (non-cosmetic) items are. Its the the fact that those that spend additional money are at an advantage and the time it would take for someone to earn enough credits to unlock these through play.

Gamers do not want DLC because "its content that should have been in the original game" or "I will buy the game when it hits $20" gamers can not have it every way they want. Companies are there to make a profit anyone that does not is a failure.

I do feel bad for the DICE guys, at least a bit, but at this point, I think the damage is done among gamers who tend to spend time on game sites like this. Regardless, this game is going to sell, and lots of people will still spend lots of money on the in game purchases.

"We're deeply saddened that people don't like our scheme to squeeze more money for basic features out of people who already paid $60 for the game."

@BAMozzy i know you can get credits in game (even though they cut the amount you can earn and limited the arcade mode) but the system is designed to make buying the lootboxes seem like the only viable option

and as you pointed out you also get star cards in loot boxes and as much as EA says they don't affect gameplay, they do such as the card that doubles the distance a sniper can see enemies through walls, this gives people who sink loads of money into lootboxes more chance of getting them and an unfair advantage over those who didn't further enticing people to buy them just to be able keep up with other players

they might as well have a neon sign pointing at the lootboxes saying "BUY ME, BUY ME"

As limited as the first games unlock system was it was 100 times better than BF2s lootbox bull****

Overwatch uses lootboxes too and it works fine because there is NOTHING in theirs that is needed to play the game, no characters, no abilities it's all cosmetic stuff you don't need at all so the system can work if done right and in the case of BF2 it's not been done right

if someone pays £60 for a game, especially a game like BF2 they should be allowed to be able to unlock EVERYTHING without it being hampered in order to entice you to pay more for a random chance you get what you want, this isn't a free to play mobile game, this is a full price AAA title and F2P lootbox crap like this shouldn't be anywhere near it

I read the whole thing and I found it hilarious when they made this statement; "You should not ever be matchmade together with players who are much better than you are"

Sorry, but as someone who has played a lot of DICE games, they've never, ever, been able to accomplish this. I've played enough matches in BFBC2, BF3, BF4, and BF1 where one side is almost always stacked with better players. Another foot in mouth statement to add to the fire.

They can say all they want, but unless Darth EA says otherwise, nothing will change.

Hmm... I doubt it, besides, their explanation for the arcade credit limit is pretty poor.

It seems EA are going to leave DICE to take most of the blame here hardly no word from them. Mainly because they feel that they've done enough damage as it is but nope as long as EA exists then still more damage to be done in the gaming industry

In the words of young Anikan,
“I don’t like loot boxes. They’re coarse and rough and irritating now they’re everywhere.”

I was actually supporting DICE and feeling bad for them, it's obviously been a labour of love to make, and then EA board has made crazy monetisations mandatory (I blame FIFA).
However when the DICE chappie says the Arcade reward credits become locked to prevent farming and giving people an unfair advantage, he is kind of missing the point that people can still pay real money to get credits to gain an unfair advantage.
In other words the cut the Arcade reward back to push the sell, and that's not on!

You can’t grind out credits in Arcade Mode to give yourself an upper hand, but you can pay real world money to do so?

EA may fix this, but I will not buy this.

@get2sammyb EXACTLY my thoughts on this.
These parasitic, anti consumer, measures are taken by the suits at EA, not ththe creative team who are more than likely bigger gamers and bigger star wars fans than most of the people playing. How would it serve their careers to make a bad game deliberately? Some guy designing storm trooper helmets isn't sitting there thinking "oh man I can't wait to see their faces when they get this in a crate they paid 2 quid for".
It was shameful that EA threw these people under the bus in this ama, they don't deserve our ire, the avaricious sycophants who live only to please faceless shareholders are the problem. Get them to answer for this.
I bought Battlefront for 9 quid with all the DLC in a sale. It was worth it, but even then it felt unfinished. If I'd paid full whack for it I would be livid!
BFII I'm not touching with a borrowed one. It's vile, and the only thing to come out of this is that maybe publishers will think twice. Maybe this is when consumers finally said no.
Probably not, but a man can dream.

Wake up EA, between this and NFS you are looking like you exist purely for investors, not to create quality products. Don't forget first and foremost you are a games company.

Making good products (i.e what people WANT) means the money automatically follows. You're chasing the money with crappy products. Got it back to front...

Good example - Apple = quality products = worlds most valuable company.

If everything can be earned through playing the game then what issue is there? So what if someone can take a shortcut to get something a bit better than what you have. If your skilled at a game that mitigates a lot of the advantage another player has over you with better equipment.

Reading through their responses in the Reddit AMA makes me not really feel bad at all for DICE. I particularly enjoyed this:

"As we want to let players earn Credits offline via a more relaxed game mode, we needed to also find a way to make sure it wouldn't be exploited in a way that would impact Multiplayer. Because of that we made the decision to limit the number of Credits earned to stop potential abuse. We will be looking at data continually and make adjustments to make things as balanced as possible."

They don't want multiplayer being abused by people earning credits in an offline mode. Paying for credits though, that doesn't break the game

@Deadlyblack and sadly it's the only true answer they gave in the AMA.
People who buy more lootcrates, will be more stronger the the others.

@dryrain It's about balance, if a game becomes tedious because the unlocks take too long, but there is a monetary system to bypass this then something is wrong. You can basically see it as a free to play mobile game - yes you can play most of them for free, but you end up effectively only being able to compete or even play if you put money down.

From what I've heard the unlocks are massive boosts in this game, so I doubt it'll be much fun for the person not willing to buy lootboxes being pitted against people who've paid and are doing quadruple the damage with invulnerability shields - skill only goes so far.

@dryrain no amount of skill can compensate for a unfairly balanced game, you can shill as much as you want.

I am still loling at this fiasco and the biggest salt that will follow is that the game will be No1 selling game for weeks to come.

..like many, I think EA deserve all they get - it'll no doubt have been the greedy suits implementing this on top of what is an amazingly crafted arcade shooter... of course I don't condone what they've done... and I reckon after recent changes - once you've completed the story and played a good few online rounds (and some arcade rounds) - you'll have enough credits to unlock 2 or 3 heroes... obviously once those have been collected you need to then start using credits for loot boxes... it'll be a slow process, but I'm trying to ignore all that fluff and just get on with enjoying the game (which is still rather awesome)... I know, I know... I'm a hypocritical dumb consumer... :/

@FullbringIchigo I am sure we are both in total agreement BUT your original comment stated that $60 game should allow you to unlock ALL the features/content in a game and SWBF2 does allow you to do so.

I totally agree that no game changing items should be in 'loot' boxes - especially not if you can buy these with Real money. I don't have as much issue with cosmetic only 'loot boxes' although I still think NO real money purchases should have an RNG nature. If you want a certain cosmetic item, you should be able to buy that item specific - not buy a 'chance' to get it. RNG loot boxes are ok, in my opinion, if they are totally in-game - either as a 'reward' or as an option to spend in-game only currency earned purchase and ONLY if they cosmetic only items. Being rewarded with RNG loot for completing a match/challenge etc is fine. Using in-game only currency to buy RNG loot is fine but in a full priced AAA game, no RNG micro-transaction (or buying currency with Real money to spend on RNG is acceptable - even if just cosmetic only.

I couldn't care less if it takes weeks or months to unlock ALL content in the game via playing - as long as its the same rule for EVERYONE. Nobody should be allowed to buy 'unlocks' - and I also include DICE's Battlefield unlocks - unlocking everything in MP for additional cost - whether its all the vehicles/perks etc, or just a specific Class and their associated weapons, abilities etc. This 'loot' box system is just an extension of DICEs Battlefield unlock system in essence except with RNG thrown in and therefore will cost a LOT more than say £40 to unlock everything in MP like that Battlefield option. Its arguably worse too as Battlefront has more 'game-changing' unlocks with the whole Star Card system but principally its very similar. To reiterate, I don't agree either should exist.

@dryrain The issue is more about how 'game changing' the items are and how long it would take to be on an even playing field once again. As I tried to explain, the Star Cards are like Perks and tiered too so buying a lot of Loot Crates could give you all the 'best' perks in the game at a very high tier and resources to instantly upgrade to top tier. At level 20, you can have 3 Perks BUT if you rely on 'earning' the credits to buy 'Perks', chances are that by lvl 20 (especially if you don't always play the same class etc) you won't have ANY top tier perks - if you even have 3 to equip. They could have 'Stopping power' giving 30-40% extra damage per shot than you as well as take 30-40% less damage and a grenade that's got a massive blast and extra damage over yours. It could take you months of grinding, spending ALL your credits on just those 3 bonuses to be on a 'level' footing - and that''s not including all the Hero and Vehicle bonuses they could have over you.

Its not 'skill' if you die in two hits - thanks to having extra damage bonuses, as well as bought the reduced recoil and/or extended range but it takes the skilled player 8-9 (maybe even more) hits to kill them, thanks to increased damage reduction. They may also have 'perks' that let them see you but you can't see them, be much more agile, faster etc. Also, the fact that they maybe a bullet sponge spewing out more damage than anyone else, will probably lead to more 'score streak' rewards (Heroes/Vehicles) that are upgraded to be more powerful, take very little damage and be too 'agile' to hit.

The chances are that those more skilled and dedicated players are the ones most likely to buy Loot Crates too - especially as they won't want to be at a disadvantage against other 'skilled' players who bought crates. This in turn creates a much wider gap between those 'Skilled' players with money to waste vs the average/casual gamers who haven't bought. Literally makes those players just cannon fodder for those with Money. Even skilled player will struggle to be competitive against an average/casual player who spends money.

I don't know about you, but I hate being killed by 'noobs' with money and losing gunfights I know I should have one but because they have much higher damage resistance and output, you can't get the 10 shots or so it takes to kill them before they get the 1-2 shots it takes them to kill you.

At this point I'm more cynical about the whole vocal outrage bandwagon which suggests people really forgot how to vote with their wallets. Indeed, what's the fun in simply not buying the game when you can try being a tabloid star online instead!

EA executives weren't born yesterday - they knew what they were diving into when they chose this model. It's not like they haven't been called out for paywalls and lootboxes before either. It's their choice, their business and their problem. A sane audience could just leave the game to sink in charts for all the stuff that rubs them against the fur, without entitlement fever and shameless lies like "we care for the franchise and the state of the video game industry", and that MIGHT have a long-term effect. An effect unlike the PR buttons that will be leisurely pushed here to balance the pros and cons of the "no such thing as bad publicity" trend. We fans are used to cybermobbing and breaking creators so much that we believe a legalized and profitable business practice can crack just as easily.

I fail to see anything good about microtransactions from my perspective, too. Yet games have always had something much worse than microtransactions - they have fans. And the fiction that can survive a fandom can survive pretty much anything. But these "gates" and reddit downvote records? Enjoy them and the fake thrill of "sticking it to the man" while developers like DICE will continue to be tasked with adding IAPs to their works.

What bothers me about this situation is while the people at DICE have to take some heat, we know this crap was forced in by the scum at EA, and those piles of sh*t in suits should be taken to task far, far more than they have been by both journalists and consumers. This is why I question any studio who has a choice and actually decides to work with EA. Absolute worst publisher in the industry right now, it's not even close. Capcom, Konami, SquareEnix, Ubisoft and Activision all drive me insane in their own ways but even combined they're not a fraction as bad for gaming as EA is.

0.9 metacritic

The more I hear about this stuff the more I don't want to spend my money on this game. It's a shame because I really had fun with the beta.

@BAMozzy yeah i should have worded my original comment better

I feel like you should be put on a list if you paid $60 for this.

@BAMozzy - i read in one of the reviews that there is supposedly DLC for the campaign coming next month.. will be interesting to see if they charge for it, given your comments corroborate what other reviews have said about the campaign being rather short, incoherent, and open-ended.

@leucocyte According to EA/DICE - all DLC is free - inc any SP campaign additions. One of the aspects that gets overlooked in the 'loot crate' debate but I still think they should still be only cosmetic items.

The Campaign does seem to be 1 small story with a few missions added for padding and borrow some of the Starfighter Assaults missions too. There are a few missions where you play as other characters that don't seem particularly attached to the main thread of following Iden Versio. It lacks coherency as a story and some missions feel more like Galactic/Starfighter Assault MP maps but with AI instead. That doesn't mean that locations, the audio and the actual 'game-play' isn't good though but as a Story and Campaign, its not the best.

I pre-ordered mine months ago and think its 'OK' as a game. The MP has been improved over the previous BUT you can't escape the loot crates and their impact. If loot crates had been 'cosmetic' only and there was the same 'progression' for all and/or even a 'balance' to the Star Cards - like - deal more damage but lose Armour, Move faster but take more damage (balancing speed and manoeuvrability against 'armour') or vice versa, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad either. However, the fact is the more you buy/earn, the less skilled you actually need to be.

Its a game that I think would be worth getting if the price was right or you buy 2nd hand. I don't normally say anyone should buy 2nd hand as its detrimental to the long term of gaming/franchises etc BUT if EA want to implement a 'F2P' and P2W model, then I really think you should not spend money that will line EA's pockets. That way you get to still play the game cheaply - inc all the DLC and effectively give little/no money to EA - at least until they get the message that this is unacceptable.

@BAMozzy Much like how players in certain games with poor sportsmanship get lumped together in the same servers, they should do the same for people who buy lootboxes. If you spend $10-$25, you only play with others who have spent that much, as an example. Leave the people who are not paying on a level playing field. Not a great solution, but certainly better than what we have right now; nothing.

The more I see of modern games the more I realise the mid 90's were the best times in gaming. We just got the PS1/N64 and still had our NES/SNES/Megadrive and we'd never even imagined c**p like this would ever happen

The online matches are timed based so if you have a skilled team and win the match quickly your earning less credit's, you might as well go AFK and let the match go on as long as it can to earn the most credit's. Skill doesn't matter in this game getting more kills doesn't earn you more credits, that's why they don't care if someone can Pay 2 Win it's not COD/Battlefield where skill earns you more points.

I'm so tired of this garbage who decided star wars fans didn't want single player story driven experiences just do ep. 1-9 as games and take my 60$ per game with the graphics now and being able to recreate actors exactly how they looked it would be amazing. But I guess there's no room for microtransactions in a game like that

@RedMageLanakyn It would be one option but that still makes it almost justifiable and reminds me of the Activision Patent for DLC based match-making. By building it into the match-making, its almost making it acceptable to put this type of system in. I bet it would be phrased as that is the 'mode' to be in too and those that don't pay are made to feel 'worse' somehow.

I wonder how many rich people are pumped to be able to buy their way to the top right out of the gate...

@whoisbdub Alien Isolation is the perfect example of how an original game based on a movie should be created. The Star Wars universe is so rich of lore, characters and locations that they could release a new title per year (while Alien had one single location and half dozen of characters!) but microtransactions and online gaming are so sexy...

Star Wars Battlefront aside, I'm glad to see that there has finally been an appropriately big backlash over loot boxes and in game gambling systems. A game like Warframe, for example, has a system where you can pay to have weapons etc instead of grinding for them, but the game itself is free to play; to ask for £45 for a game and then do this is just wrong in my opinion.

Just shows again that EA is among the worst companies of the planet. Honestly don't really care about this game at all, but still it's sad to see that gaming is in fact entering the dark side. I just hope all this commotion leads into some sort of 'revolution' that shows publishers that they really cannot get away with these lootbox systems in full-priced games.

The dutch government announced today that they are looking into the lootbox mechanics to see if they are a form of online gambling (which is prohibited by law here). If worse comes to worst, games containing them will be removed from shelves and not be released anymore. I actually hope it comes to that (and leads the European Commission into investigating it after that).

@andreoni79 I'd still rather play through episode 1-9 before the expanded universe stuff but good call

@BAMozzy - ah fair enough, i wasn't sure if the free DLC model only applied to multiplayer map packs, since campaign DLC could hardly be considered as 'splitting the player base'. though if it's free and is coming as soon as next month, you'd wonder why it's not in the game already, half-ar*ed as the campaign is.. unless it contains spoilers about the upcoming movie.

regarding lootboxes, i am of a similar opinion, where it's acceptable/tolerable for cosmetic items (i.e. no gameplay enhancing stuff) and if you use real money, rather than in-game currency, you can buy the item you want, not a random chance to get an item you want.

EA made the statement:- "The crate mechanics of Star Wars Battlefront II are not gambling. A player’s ability to succeed in the game is not dependent on purchasing crates. Players can also earn crates through playing the game and not spending any money at all. Once obtained, players are always guaranteed to receive content that can be used in game."

the ability to succeed is not dependent on purchasing crates seems dubious claim at best.. the claim it's not gambling is plain false imo. not sure if it's the same as battlefield, but buying higher value loot crates gives a greater chance to earn legendary items compared with normal loot crates?. so the more somebody spends, the quicker they can potentially accrue the desirable (and in battlefront's system more powerful) items. battlefield 4's battlepack system was annoying with the way it gave random attachments and stuff for weapons you didn't have or hadn't unlocked, but at least they threw them at you in game pretty regularly.. they've got pretty close to ruining that franchise too, though.

@XurAgentofthe9 - it's been a while since i played warframe, but it used to be that you could just outright buy the warframe you wanted rather than grind for all the components, or if you used real money, you got in-game platinum, and that platinum could be used to buy specific in-games items. this system works for warframe because it's a co-op game so less concern about competitive advantages etc. and you get decent game for free.

@Elodin Heroes provide only 1/10 the score in game and you can 1 shot most heroes with a shotgun if you get the sneaks on them, I was excited by the fact more than 2 heroes could spawn, but the in game requirement went up to 6/8k a game from 5k in Beta, when I am playing with a new gun I can pretty much gaurantee I will not spawn a hero.

Bit tired of this conversation, playing the game the last 2 days, I have unlocked 2 heroes, all the star cards for troopers I care to use for now and will start working on hero and vehicle upgrades in a day or two.

Unlocks in BF games have always been slow, hundreds of hours have resulted in a good amount but not all unlocks available, EA locking characters behind large sums of cash was a bit of a bad move, but I only have 3 more to go

I just hope they have a long stron DLC plan for this game, if not their experiment will officially be a failure.

I guess the damage is done already - but I doubt that it will affect the sales since it has the SW label on it - the first day buyers are always the ones that suffer most - that’s the reason why I never buy Day one any more no matter what game comes out. I just wish that - after all this mess - EA gets at least a bit of a backlash now and starts to rethink this topic- oh and by the way - this loot box Desaster is one thing (and I really enjoy that shstorm) - not a big PR Desaster since there’s advertising non stop on TV for the game atm - but all the fuss about those loot boxes and unbalanced matches is just one side - the other is - simply put - a graphically stunning but overall mediocre game

@leucocyte Technically, EA are right that ones ability is not dependent on the purchase of loot crates. In theory - every 'upgrade, star card etc can be bought with in-game currency and therefore you can compete with those who bought loot crates with real money.

However its the time it would take to catch up and be on a 'level' playing field that is the issue. If you have to play months and months just to be competitive with someone who paid extra for the 'boost', something is wrong!

In some ways though, its a lot less like gambling than 'cosmetic' only loot boxes. All the rewards are at least available to purchase in game - its mostly just a 'random' shortcut in essence. Instead of having to buy the Star Card/Hero etc and buy upgrades, you can get lucky and get these straight out of a loot crate. Its not giving you something that can only be found in Loot crates. Its like buying those 'unlock' packs in Battlefield - unlock every weapon, attachment etc in the MP.

The loot crates that are 'more' like gambling are those with items only found in those loot crates. Of course most games put in a method to earn or buy these in game too but the fact you can only get these items in crates is.

I guess any RNG is a form of Gambling really as you are paying money for a 'chance' of getting 'something' of value to you. I totally disagree that this is like Pokemon cards as at least you have cards with 'intrinsic value' even if they are of little value to you. To someone else though, they could be worth a LOT of money and at the very least, you can 'trade' with friends to get the 'card(s)' you wanted.

Truth is, I can argue for or against whether this is 'gambling' or not. However I cannot make a case for the inclusion of any form of micro-transaction RNG purchase. Even buying 'credits' for the purpose of purchasing RNG is unacceptable. You don't go into a retailer, hand over money and they give you some random items. You wouldn't give Game £100 to get 3 'random' games and you would be irate if those 3 were 'awful', already owned or of 'no value' so you can't trade or swap for items you wanted.

Anyway, at least the gaming community are speaking out and united - makes a change from the petty 'my console is better than yours' divide.

@leucocyte Yes, you can buy stuff outright in Warframe, but you are buying the thing you want, rather than a loot box, where you may (but probably won't) get the thing you want; so no gambling.