Topic: Ten Forward - The Star Trek Topic

@KALofKRYPTON Oh, I love that quote. I wonder if watching Discovery whilst playing Encounters would improve either experience? At least there'd be a bored-sounding Shatner to chuckle at.

I've uploaded hundreds of YouTube videos since the PS4 introduced SHAREfactory, but they're all unlisted and were only really to send brief clips, montages or edited music videos to a very, very small handful of people. I do have an unfinished project I've been on-and-off working towards that I'll make public someday, but that's likely quite a distant someday.

Last one I did was a montage of Star Trek Online, set to music from The Wrath of Khan.

@KALofKRYPTON lets be honest when they guy in charge says and i quote

What I can tell you is that Trek, in general, finds people when they’re about between nine and twelve,” Kurtzman said. “It’s never reached younger than that. It’s never tried to. And to me, that’s a hugely missed opportunity, especially because what you’re really trying to do is influence hearts and minds with really positive messages about who we can be as a species and as people and what our future is. So why not start young, you know? And not for a cynical reason. Not because you know, hey, let some more toys. Because if you really want Star Trek to reach people, then you’ve got to start young.

And this is where I guess the Star Wars influence on me really mattered because as a kid at four years old, I could imagine myself starting up with a twin suns of Tattooine and wondering what my life was. Trek didn’t give me that same thing. It gave me Wesley Crusher, it gave me different characters, but again, those are older characters

this guy is literally saying he wants to turn Star Trek into Star Wars

@RogerRoger Perhaps if we could get a retroactive mod for Encounters to add a thousand shuttles that could deploy from the Defiant along with a few space Rocketeers...

@FullbringIchigo It genuinely makes me sad that Trek has ended up being made by the people that it is now.

Just watched the Trailer for the latest Short Trek. If my eyes weren't a bit crap already I'd think about gouging them out.

@KALofKRYPTON Console yourself by watching old Star Trek instead. It's what I'm doing right now.

My marathon of the original movies continued over the past couple days. I'll try to be a bit more concise this time around, especially since there's little to unpack about the third and fourth films; they're relatively straightforward, knockabout adventure flicks... but y'know what? That's perfectly okay.

Star Trek III: The Search for Spock starts rough. It's a hodgepodge of stock footage, weird aspect ratios and jumbled plot threads that get introduced before disappearing for way too long. It rushes to try and explain Spock's death for newcomers whilst simultaneously laying the groundwork for his resurrection; a tough sell, given the fact that the katra concept was both brand new to the well-established Vulcan species and a little more spiritual and mystic than Star Trek is usually comfortable with. By the time Kirk steals the Enterprise, however, the movie has settled for just being what it is, namely a series of well-produced action sequences that rush us towards the inevitable outcome. I adore the grandeur and scale of it all (hijacking a starship from Spacedock is both audacious and stunning, and the Genesis planet's destruction is gorgeous) but it's again devoid of a point, other than flipping "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" on its head and examining humanity's drive towards friendship and brotherhood... but even then, it doesn't really examine it; that's just me putting it there because I feel like, if I don't, there'd be an empty seat at the table.

The death of David can't hope to match the death of Spock (despite Shatner's best efforts; ignore his reputation, the man can act when he wants to) and feels like a hangover from the unnecessarily-grim previous film. When taken by itself, it can be quite gripping and I can see the intent, but it all gets lost amidst the chaos of the picture's second half... heck, the destruction of the Enterprise felt more emotional. But I guess they didn't have time to let anything really sink in, not after all that opening exposition and considering that the runtime is only one-hour-forty-five (something which always surprises me, because it feels like quite a "big" film). So yeah, I like the turn towards a bit more spectacle, but the lingering shadows of darkness left me cold. Ends on a lovely note, though.

In comparison, by all accounts, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home is a delight. It also comes closest to delivering on a few Roddenberry-esque ideals by framing all of its fun and humour with a cautionary environmental tale; even if it never really allows itself to dwell on the issue of hunting and extinction, the overall message is painfully clear. It's brave that the film, with its family-friendly tone, decides to show us the footage of whale slaughter close-up during the tour of the Cetacean Institute. Particularly given recent headlines about whaling being started back up again in certain parts of the world, it hits home rather effectively.

In fact, I think it's because of that slight edge that I'd now call The Voyage Home my favourite Star Trek film (at least until I've watched the others again and made sure I'm remembering them correctly because heck, if I can change my mind about this one...?). It fulfils those three criteria for good Star Trek in abundance; it makes you think about the state of the world, whilst taking you on a great adventure alongside some fantastic characters. All of the various Star Trek crews got comfortable enough for laugh-out-loud humour eventually (okay, Enterprise started funny and got more serious, but hey) and this is when it happened to Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, Doohan, Nichols, Takei and Koenig. I list them all because, for the first time, this feels like a true ensemble piece; everybody's given something to do, and they excel in their roles. The previous three films focused on Kirk and Spock, sidelining even McCoy at times, but The Voyage Home is truly a group effort.

I also like it because, as Harve Bennett says in the special features I stuck around to watch, there's no "heavy" (if anything, the villain of the piece is 20th Century man, represented by the whalers who killed all the humpbacks and doomed Earth to a 23rd Century fate). Don't get me wrong; Christopher Lloyd's Kruge was a campy, snarling wonder, rightly defining an entire generation of Klingons, but I feel like such black-and-white villainy was something inserted into The Wrath of Khan to answer Star Wars and the meteoric iconography of Darth Vader. The best Star Trek doesn't need a villain; it just needs a problem to solve, whether malicious or not.

So yeah, I'm gonna draw up an in-progress ranking, because I can tell that I've changed enough in recent years to think differently about these films (specifically, I used to place The Search for Spock above The Voyage Home and yet last night, I couldn't find a single fault with the latter). We'll see what happens when I continue with "The God Movie" this evening, and then The Undiscovered Country tomorrow... but, for now?

1. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
2. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
3. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
4. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

so this is now up for order on Amazon

it contains the 4 TNG movies and the TNG episodes Best of Both Worlds and Chain of Command both of which has been edited together to make them into feature length episodes (much like they did with Way of the Warrior on the DS9 box sets)

now it's obvious that this is just to cash in on the upcoming Star Trek Picard series and at £40 it might be a bit rich for some BUUT it is a blu-ray release and if you don't have the TNG movies on blu-ray then that works out at about £6.60 per film/episode so it's not that bad really

anyone getting it?

@FullbringIchigo
Just let me go throw up in my mouth 🙄🙄

@KALofKRYPTON @LN78 i actually enjoy the TNG movies, yeahs as films they aint nothing special, you just have to look at them as feature length episodes with a bigger budget

@LN78 because maybe he knows with the way people are now a days if he brought it up he would get attacked for it

that's what happens when the internet, thanks to social media sites grows to a point where people feel their opinion is the only one that matters and the only one people should listen too and take offence at every little thing that doesn't exactly meet their expectations

@FullbringIchigo @LN78 I really like the TNG movies, I'm less inclined to like repackaging the films and a couple of episodes in this manner.

@KALofKRYPTON yeah it definitely feels like a cash grab but then again this is CBS we are talking about (and it IS CBS now they have brought Viacom, they own the movies now too)

@FullbringIchigo With all of TNG Remastered and my fancy Blu-Ray collection of the ten films, there's no need for me to double-dip with this new Picard box-set, no... but then I don't think these extra re-releases are ever for the fans (tried and true collectors aside, of course). This is something that can go in HMV's window, catching the eye of anybody who's curious about that trending trailer, or who watched the first episode in January because it was top of their recommended feed.

They did the same for Star Trek Into Darkness, I believe, chucking a few key episodes of the original series together on a £15 disc (with "Space Seed" being included, naturally).

"The Best of Both Worlds" (TNG) is an obvious choice, given what we know about the forthcoming return of the Borg, but I continue to be baffled at people's adoration for "Chain of Command" (TNG) as a feature-length. Its second episode is outstanding, to be sure, but the first hour is pretty slow stuff. Why not push the boat out and include "Encounter at Farpoint" (TNG) and "All Good Things..." (TNG) as a double feature? They work so beautifully as bookends to Picard's wider journey, all details aside.

@RogerRoger Chain of Command only gets so much recognition because of Patrick's performance and the whole "There are four lights" bit that became a bit of a meme

but in my opinion it's not the strongest of episodes and certainly don't really fit in with the story of Star Trek Picard, they should have included Family, I Borg and Descent parts 1 and 2 as they tie into Picard just like Nemesis and Star Trek 09 does

@LN78 oh true, very true but i was just listing episodes that would actually have something to do with Star Trek Picard

while Tapestry and The Inner Light are great episodes they don't really have anything to do the premise of Picard

still i think they should have just had a selection of episodes on this instead of the films, if the idea is to tie into Picard and give people an idea of who he really is then having Picard centered stories would have been better

@FullbringIchigo The comment on torture was also pretty brave back when "Chain of Command, Part II" was aired; nowadays, thanks to Jack Bauer and our post-9/11 world, shows bring the reality of torture into our living rooms on a daily basis but back then, it was rare.

And I agree with @LN78 in both praising David Warner (he's always excellent) and suggesting "Family" and "Tapestry" as excellent overview shows on Picard's character (whilst "The Inner Light" is a wonderful piece of science fiction, you can't include it without including "Lessons" and at that point, the £40 price tag for the collection goes out the window... particularly since, at that broader level, I'd also argue strongly for "Time Squared" and "Darmok" as important insights on Picard's character).

If we're dealing purely with providing a catch-up for the new show, then it should be "I, Borg" and "Descent, Parts I and II" taking their place.

And a whole bunch of Voyager episodes, too.

@LN78 Kelvinverse wasn't bad, the issue is that not only are they recasting beloved characters BUT they also had to compete in a time where big budget action films were taking all the headlines such as Iron Man so i can see why they wanted to go for a more action route but it's not like Trek has to always be mindful or philosophical, there is room for a good action romp and some silliness too, some of the best episodes are the ones that were just fun

also unlike what most people believe the Kelvinverse films did have a message to tell even under all the action, it's about family and bonds which i think are also as important as acceptance and diversity because even as connected as we are thanks to things like the internet we still seem to be pushing each other apart

@LN78 well when the guy in charge of the shows was also heavily involved in those films then it's to be expected

not to mention that CBS even said that to start with the series was originally intended to be part of the Kelvin Time Line you can see why

and of course they are still trying to recover from the cock up Bryan Fuller and his cronies did it was his idea to make all the changes such as the Klingons and ships and by the time CBS realised what was going on it was too late, too much time and money and been put into it so they couldn't back out and not to mention that Netflix was pushing them

to be honest i don't think Trek will ever recover from the absolute mess Discovery's production was

@LN78

If it helps, my full reply was nearly "...David Warner (he's always excellent, particularly in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier which I watched the other night, and will be returning to later in the week with a glowing review)..." so never fear, Hell hasn't frozen over.