In a headline that perhaps isn’t a surprise for a live service game, one Marvel’s Avengers fan has taken the time to calculate the cost of all of the title’s cosmetics – and it adds up to an eye-watering $3,317. While all of this content is, of course, completely optional, it’s an astounding figure for a release that’s been available for a little over a year.
Cosmetics come in the form of costumes, player banners, and emotes. Crystal Dynamics would argue that the items exist to offer as much choice as possible, and no single user is expected to buy them all. It’s also worth pointing out that post-release expansions, like the upcoming Spider-Man, have been “free” for all players, and you need never spend another cent to benefit from the post-release support. The developer did recently add XP and resources boosters, but they were swiftly removed following a robust backlash from the game’s community.
It’s also worth adding that franchises like Fortnite, Call of Duty, and NBA 2K could probably comfortably rival this number, so it’s not just Marvel’s Avengers that’s guilty. The Sims 4, for example, has almost $1,000 of DLC packs available on the PS Store. Nevertheless, it’s still a dizzying number for a game that’s never really connected in quite the way publisher Square Enix hoped it would.
[source reddit.com, via mp1st.com]
Comments 74
https://c.tenor.com/AU4Sl4WDdp8AAAAC/john-mulaney-hmm-gross.gif
This should not be a thing. I get there are free updates now, but is just ridiculous. And I thought DOA was bad with its prices. DOA cheap compared to all this.
would love to hear their justification for this kind of nonsense, it's just utterly disgraceful and any defence of whale hunting is hilarious
I don’t personally have a problem with cosmetics as it’s purely optional, it’s PTW that is the devil. Though 3k is a bit over the top lol
Does this even count all the promotional bonuses they had with Sprint, Totino's, that gum brand etc? So glad I'm only a trophy completionist and don't get hung up with things like this
Let's be honest here, anyone who spends money on cosmetics is just wasting money.
This is making the last two DOA games blush with envy. I'm a completionist with every game I play so this is absolutely horrifying, luckily I see the word Gaas and I sprint the opposite way.
I never understood the whole mentality about buying cosmetics in video games.
You are literally buying clothes and accessories for...computer code.
Fortnite is 100% free if you buy nothing. Yet it's a [expletive] cash cow.
Someone is going to buy it all. It's bragging rights to being duped.
If that’s why I keep getting free characters and story expansions, I hope they keep it up!
Disgusting how our hobby is turning into games designed to earn money as a primary objective, instead of a fun, interesting, challenging, immersive, imaginative, cool, different experience.
It's generic consumerism items.
Luckily lots of good games and cool devs out there.
Reminds me of how much cosmetic DLC is out for the Dead or Alive games.
I have no problem with the option to buy cosmetics tbh. If you want to buy a cool new costume for your favourite character, great, you carry on. If not, just use the costumes obtainable from playing the game and pretend the option to buy cosmetics using real money doesn’t exist.
< Mobile games: AFK Arena where one character is $99
Now do the same calculation with other online games. It is no different.
@GamingVeteran yeah, they're all identically monetized 🙄
@Victor_Meldrew Yeah, they are. Some are much worse.
I don't buy them so I have zero reason to get upset about it. I bought Marvel Avengers on sale for $25 I have enjoyed what i played so far.
There should be an option to remove all micro transactions from showing up
Crazy number but I hardly ever buy cosmetics in video games, so this doesn't affect me.
This is the kind of 💩 game "journalists" should be calling out publicly.
As long as they don't affect my experience of the game and are optional, I'm all for them. People can do whatever they want with their money. Even waste it on video game cosmetics.
@GamingVeteran other games are not as kwel to hate at the moment, so that won't be happening. Video game journalists are transparent as a window.
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you know these were things we used to unlock through gameplay. yet another reason why i deleted this off my xbox. ty gamepass!
@Northern_munkey exactly.
Having said that, I think they posted about The Avengers because someone else already did all the research for this particular game. That's video game journalism for you. Just copying someone else's work most of the time.
@naruball well that makes it even worse...lazy journalism too..how about moving on from giving the avengers a hard time..its getting seriously old now along with rehashing the same old topics from last year...and the year before...
@Northern_munkey as long as it attracts attention, they won't move on.
They should Thanos click these out of existence. Could make it a symbolic in-game event.
I paid $10 for about 20 hours of an excellent expansion to Horizon: Zero Dawn.
Alternatively I guess I could have bought an emote in Avengers?
They should be embarrassed about this.
@naruball It's true other games are worse (Star Citizen, FIFA, COD, Genshin impact, etc.) that doesn't meant this shouldn't be highlighted. Two wrongs don't make a right. They are reporting this as it was reported elsewhere.
I take your point about 'lazy' journalism, though you'll be aware that the vast majority of news here, and on most VG websites, just consolidates the news rather than doing much actual investigative journalism. If you want true investigative journalism go subscribe to Bloomberg & Jason Schreier. They both serve a purpose.
"People can do whatever they want with their money. Even waste it on video game cosmetics." The trouble is, like gambling, these are specifically and cynically designed to appeal to a small group of people who may struggle to control their impulses and make poor purchasing decisions. It is targeted whale hunting and often leaves people worse off and in financial difficulty. Certainly some of that responsibility is on the buyer, no doubt, but that doesn't make it OK for corporations to do this. It is cynical, harmful and the darker side of the of this hobby we love.
This sort of predatory BS needs to be called out. Doesn't matter if it's optional. Adding $3,400 worth of DLC to a game with the specific intent to go whale hunting is simply unacceptable.
@Gunnerzaurus Re-read what I actually said. It is similar to gambling in that it is cynically and specifically designed to appeal to people who will just 'have one more go' and keep spending, or in this case who will keep buying all the skins to complete their set. It's not just about what you get or whether it is guaranteed, it is about cynical design practices that at a fundamental level are designed to capture that small pocket of people with less control i.e. whales.
This isn't revelatory. There used to be whole developer talks and conferences on this predatory side of the industry before it started getting highlighted and they all seemingly went underground.
Question. Do you genuinely think there should be $3,400 worth of cosmetic skins on any game? Do you think that is a sensible investment for anyone? The 'people can do what they want with their money', while true to a point, completely sidesteps the real problems here.
It crazy to thing one of hand we Marvel's Avengers and then on the other hand we have Marvel's GoTG. Both games handled by the same publisher.
@DertieBertie Not a good faith, or apples to apples, argument at all. The difference is how those are marketed and purchased.
No one goes into a store and buys all 1000 options of clothes shoes etc. whereas people DO buy all, or very many, of the MTX options.
Just one of the few developer talks that still exists online that details how some of this is designed. Bear in mind this is several years on and things have gotten significantly worse and more sneaky in their approach. I particularly 'liked' the bit where they discuss "put morality aside for a bit" before detailing how to catch those whales who will put thousands into their MTX.
Stop defending these predatory practices as OK. They aren't. 🤦🏻♂️
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNjI03CGkb4
Funny how nobody talks about Persona 5's ridiculously high prices for outfits which won't even reach a pixel of the detail on a Arthur Morgan's hat. I thought outfits are part of what makes up an RPG, shameful!
@TheArt People do complain, but in this world that is small fry. You can purchases all the P5 content for around £150, that is relatively low compared to this $3,400 on Avengers or worse things like FIFA, Star Citizen, Genshin Impact, etc. where people have literally spend TENS of THOUSANDS on MTX for a game.
@themightyant Wow...just laughing hard right now imagining myself spending anything more than £10 on cosmetics. Still, for an RPG where grinding to make money to spend on outfits is part of the game, P5 is really shameful. I mean 2pixel cartoon outfits ugh!
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@GamingFan4Lyf I’ve played Fortnite (nearly) every day for the last 18 months. I can’t think of any other game that’s kept me invested for so long. I do buy the cosmetic stuff I like but given the amount of time I’ve got out of it, I don’t really mind. New battle passes every few months with tonnes of content for £6.49 is pretty great value.
Compare that to say Ratchet & Clank on PS5. I’ll be generous and say £55-60 at launch for 15-20 hours of game that you’ll probably complete twice and never play again. Not that I have anything against R&C (it’s one of my favourite franchises) but I think Fortnite in particular is unfairly judged for being a wallet-draining scam when it’s actually good value (if you only buy the skins you really like).
I would never spend money on this awful Marvel game though. They wanted people to pay full price for the base game AND charge ridiculous sums of money for cosmetics on top. Talk about having your cake and eating it too. At least the base game in Fortnite is free to play.
@TheArt I completely agree it is shameful, and should be called out, didn't mean otherwise. Was just suggesting there are even worse examples that deserve been called out even more.
@DertieBertie First off, it's nice have a civil discussion even if we disagree here, there's room for multiple viewpoints. I can understand where you are coming from on some points, but disagree strongly on others.
"Always looking for something to moan and complain about" I agree that people like to have a moan, and that can definitely be an issue.
"spend your energy on more important factors in life." Advocating to prevent predatory business practices that are KNOWN to deliberately target certain users (whales) wallets, especially those with weaker impulse control, IS an important factor in life. Morality IS important and shady practices like this shouldn't be allowed to go unchecked.
"You don't think other companies don't want their customers to buy everything if they could?". Yes I do think they would if they could. This is EXACTLY why it can't be allowed to go on unchecked and the root of my argument.
"why is that an issue?". It is an issue because of how these are sold and marketed and how they are bought or consumed. You mentioned "choice is good" and sometimes it is. If a shop sells 100 cheeses then choice is good, we can decide which we want and at what price point, options are good for us. It is highly unlikely someone will buy all 100 cheeses and there is no marketing, design or systems in place to make people want or need all 100, or even most, of the cheeses.
The same cannot be said for videogame MTX, skins, lootboxes etc. They are fundamentally different. They are cynically designed from the ground up to appeal to the part of the brain that has FOMO and that "gotta catch em all!" feeling. They use psychological tactics like countdowns, sunk cost fallacy of time or money invested and many other techniques to make sure they catch their whales who have to have it all. Fundamentally this isn't the same as choice in other fields/areas.
Why do we have laws that prevent advertising certain products to kids, or have laws around gambling? Because sometimes we have to protect people from greedy corporations or even from themselves.
"Don't wanna buy it? Move on." For the record I've never bought, and will never buy a cosmetic. But many don't have the same restraint. Plenty of adults fall afoul and end up in financial strife. Of course getting yourself into debt isn't just limited to games or MTX but just because it happens elsewhere shouldn't mean we enable it here by letting people spend THOUSANDS on games MTX.
Wonder if they have costumes for John Steed and Emma Peel.
@themightyant I think some of your concerns are warranted, but I don’t see this as a gambling issue à la FIFA since the transaction doesn’t involve chance. If that were so, than any marketplace would create the same issue, be it the PSN store itself or the local supermarket.
The gambler’s fallacy isn’t at play here, but I think you’re right that some people will feel strongly compelled to buy these things, and I would guess that most observers would see that as a terrible waste of money. Still, I assume that the person doing the spending is getting what they want. Otherwise I’m denying that they have free will.
@Jaberwocky Your comment made my day. The bowler hat and umbrella look is truly underrepresented in today’s games.
@Amnesiac There's a lot of chance involved in FIFA FUT, you don't know what's in those packs, you're just buying and hoping to land great items.
@GamingVeteran yeah, no, they're not 🙄 well done
@Northern_munkey yeah, obviously because it's not the absolute worst it shouldn't be reported 🙄 well done on defending this, it really needed it
@Gunnerzaurus because it's the norm means it's absolutely fine and we should all ignore it? that's a great viewpoint, thanks, opened my eyes
@Amnesiac I agree, in this specific case of Avengers, it's not the SAME as gambling, but I never said it was. I was deliberately careful and specific about my wording.
I said it was similar to gambling in that it was "specifically and cynically designed to appeal to a small group of people who may struggle to control their impulses and make poor purchasing decisions." I stand by that 100%. Whale hunting is an active part of live service & F2P game development. We know that many of the psychological techniques used to haul them in are the same, or variations of, those used in slot machines and other gambling activities. It's the industry's dirty secret. (see video linked above and others)
"Still, I assume that the person doing the spending is getting what they want. Otherwise I’m denying that they have free will."
That's a good point, I just don't see it as clear cut. 'Free will' is a difficult thing. I'll absolutely fight for our right for it and yet with things like this there is so much psychological manipulation going on we need to both protect children from it and some adults from their own worst impulses. Much as we do with gambling, smoking and other potentially crippling vices and addictions.
At the moment the games industry is like the Wild West in this area and virtually anything goes. I hate regulation more than most, but sometimes it's sadly needed and warranted.
Go F yourself SquareEnix!!! Just as greedy as American Corps.!!! I remember back in the day half the fun was unlocking all the extras like skins and weapons. How I yearn for those long past days…
@themightyant I think we're close on this, and I'm enjoying the discussion, but I'll push back just a bit. Years and years ago, I worked in the marketing department of a small retail chain where part of my job was to identify which shoppers to target with discounts. If a customer was already buying a certain thing, we would entice them to buy an additional complementary item, or trade up to something with a higher margin. Was that psychological manipulation? To some extent, yes. Does the consumer ultimately have the choice to buy or not? I think so. I also agree wholeheartedly that regulations must be applied to sales and marketing to prevent fraud and intent to harm. It's a system that naturally destroys itself and harms others if not kept in check.
The "whale targeting" aspect of your argument eludes me, but it might be a definition problem. I'm thinking of "whales" as individuals who are financially secure enough that they don't bat an eye at dropping 3k on cosmetic items for a video game. The same small group of people are targeted by luxury brands because they can afford it. If I have a bone to pick here, it's that false value is created for elements of a game so that they can only be enjoyed by a wealthy few. I mean, why are some pixels more expensive than others? But again, the same holds true for nearly all consumer transactions. In other words, I fly coach.
@Amnesiac I agree I think we're close just maybe looking from different sides of the coin on a few points.
Re: normal shopping "Was that psychological manipulation?"
To an extent ALL advertising and marketing is, so in that sense yes. But that isn't really what I mean.
In your example you were upselling or cross-selling something to the customer. To use your own analogy imagine trying to sell the shopper the $60 Avengers video game and they try and cross-sell them another $600 of Avengers MTX immediately, it's unlikely to work right? But what if we give them a small taste of that $600 prize for free first and then breakdown the rest into much smaller spread out $5-$20 payments with a sweet little incentive after each. Additionally we obfuscate how much money they are actually spending by not listing in local currencies but making up a point system to disguise that fact that that one cosmetic actually costs $15.
We'll also make it so as you play the main game all these rewards are always there to see but we drip feed things at such a slow rate that by the end of the main campaign you still have basically 1 or maybe, if you're lucky, 2 costumes per character (out of 35+) we use the same one finishing move throughout the game but display a dozen more. The same emote etc. etc. We'll dangle all these in front of you at every available opportunity and remind you about them. We'll have a specific mission for Iron Man to build a brand new suit for Free and have a fabricator icon on the map, yet by the end of the game, we have not fabricated anything else. The character menu screens are 75% related to the glacial battle pass etc. etc. Dangle and dangle some more.
Basically there are a LOT of small but very deliberate design decisions that all add up to push people towards just one small purchase initially, then another, and another and before you know it many will have spent a lot and don't know how it started. It is almost identical language and behaviour to most addictions. Nobody starts buying $500 worth of class-A drugs, but it's a slippery slope and they just want you to start with a small but sweet little $10 taste.
@Amnesiac 2/2 "Does the consumer ultimately have the choice to buy or not? I think so." So do I and that IS important. Of course they will always shoulder a large amount of responsibility for their actions. But sadly many people are easily swayed and the psychology of advertising & marketing, especially small micro purchases, is a particularly dark art. Currently there is little or no regulation on lootboxes, mtx, etc. within games.
"I'm thinking of "whales" as individuals who are financially secure..." It would truly be nice to believe that wouldn't it. But just as in real life a lot of people spend far beyond their means. Many people who gamble or get into debt are the ones who can least afford it. I have a friend who ran up £30k+ of credit card debt including around £2,000 on FIFA points (he honestly doesn't know how much and that is probably low balling it). He doesn't have a house, or a car, or a particularly stable job. He just made a series of bad choices and is still digging his way out. Another friend had a gambling addiction and also spent thousands of in game items while struggling to pay his families rent.
While i'm not absolving them of all blame, we do live in a society that doesn't look after the best interests of people like them with addictive personalities by enabling all this. Worse certain things like games actively and deliberately prey upon it.
Apologies it turned into a dissertation!
Sigh... People be like "i don't buy cosmetics, so what?" completely missing that if that's where all the money comes from that's where all the development time goes. Which is why Avengers just isn't that great. Not the worst game ever. But not really that good either.
Because the game exists FOR the cosmetics. So you don't buy them - great! Have a virtual cookie. But this kind of game design compromises all else so we all still lose in a way.
@Gunnerzaurus That's a bad faith argument, and not an apples to apples comparison. (See above #37 & #45)
The distinction is that a significant number of gamers DO want all, or a sizeable proportion, of the cosmetics sets. Whereas clothes buyers typically do not. (i'm sure there are exceptions)
Developers are 100% aware of what they are doing. They use a range of sensory and other psychological stimulations, to actively encourage small purchases, playing on FOMO and other tricks to first get one small sale, then another and then another. "Gotta catch em all!"
Watch some of the game dev talks about catching whales, it's quite deliberately predatory by design. As I said above, this isn't either new or revelatory. Some, like Avengers are much nearer the subjective moral line than others like FIFA but they have all designed their in game economies to try and push their MTX to addictive personality types. If that isn't predatory, I don't know what is.
I'm just going to say this, Steve Rogers is fineeee lol ☠️😓
PS chose mighty fine thumbnail lmao!
As for the micros, it's definitely nuts but other games do it too, and as long as the game offers free updates, I'll let it slide.
Doesn't make it any good though...
@Gunnerzaurus Fully agree that not every argument I disagree with is bad faith, I agree with several others. But that specific one is, for the reasons detailed above, it's not a 1:1 case.
Predatory definition "seeking to exploit others". Watch the videos on catching whales and try and tell me that isn't what they are doing quite deliberately. You can still enter into an agreement yet still be preyed upon, they're not mutually exclusive.
But I also agree with you that we should agree to disagree as this is going in circles, and I doubt either of us will be swayed. And that's perfectly OK. Opinions!
I'm off to play some video games. Have a good one and happy gaming.
@Deadlyblack and i think they are cheaper. 🤪
This is the sort of garbage I expect from EA/Activision. It’s hugely disappointing that Square/Enix would do this. Another company I won’t be supporting. Vote with your wallets folks.
I would rather buy;
LG C1: £1200
PS5: £500
Spare Dualsense: £60
Controller charger: £20
Streets of Rage 4: £20
Infinity Saga Collectors edition: £400
Pair of Nike Air Max 90: £100
Hugo Boss Aftershave: £30
Marks and Spencer Cake Hamper: £50
Domino's: £20
And still have a grand left over.
@meistergeister you mean back in the day when games cost a fraction of what they cost today? If you "yearn for those long past days", you can always play those old games.
@zupertramp "People be like "i don't buy cosmetics, so what?" completely missing that if that's where all the money comes from that's where all the development time goes. "
That's not true at all. Look at Fortnite or Genshin Impact.
As for The Avengers, once again, that's not the case. In addition to the campaign, there have been three free DLCs with some really nice content (including cutscenes, voice acting, etc). As for the online missions, they absolutely are boring and repetitive. They simply never found a way to make them interesting. That's the game's greatest failure.
@themightyant you are right and your posts are spot on. Unfortunately the education system programs people to defend grubby practises. Too many replying to you don’t actually understand the basic concepts you are explaining and they are programmed to blame their fellow consumers rather than the man… society always blame the other little people for causing the ills of the other little people. Rarely do people realise that big business and governance is to blame… it’s why we are told to fear those that are different… sex/colour/sexuality/nationality…. It’s all smoke and mirrors - how anyone can see the figure £3500 for all the unlockables in a game and say - “yeah I don’t care” or “good I support this” is beyond stupid. These people don’t realise how preprogrammed they’ve become.
FIFA and Madden Ultimate teams basically have an unlimited cap on spending. All of these practises need to end and the industry need a self imposed cap on the amount one user can spend on one game.
@themcnoisy kudos for the random M&S cake hamper thrown in. That made me laugh.
@MidnightDragonDX wow. You come from good stock. My first car was a grand and I though that was a lot…. I learnt a bit late and had a Saxo GTR… I miss that bad boy.
@naruball no they didn’t… you mean to
make or buy?
N64 games were £60/70….
If it’s recouping cost of the game… make less cosmetics….
And why don’t all games need to do this then? Did avengers cost more to make than guardians?!?
@Stocksy honestly i think yea avangers budget is more than GoTG. Lol doesn't mean it's better game.
@Would_you_kindly Especially if a game is being played on a childs account
@Stocksy Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant, to make. They didn't need to sell cosmetics back then because they made game in a much shorter period of time, with significantly smaller teams and thus even selling a few hundred thousands could be enough to help a game break even.
Now they need to sell much more and, if they don't, they can sink an entire company (e.g. THQ). Cosmetics help offset costs and, if a game doesn't sell well, they can at least make some profit from them.
The real problem is when they affect gameplay. Square Enix showed their true colours when they (through Crystal Dynamics) promised there wouldn't be xp boosters for real money, then nerfed leveling up and then introduced xp boosters. That was beyond indefensible and definitely something they deserved to be called out for.
"And why don’t all games need to do this then? Did avengers cost more to make than guardians?!?"
Most certainly.
I don't have much of a problem with cosmetic choices being offered for a real-world price, especially when you can spend X to get item Y and it's a simple, honest transaction. It beats the snot out of loot boxes, where you gamble at a CHANCE to get something you want, especially when the thing you're gambling for can change the way you play if you get it. I despise loot box mechanics...even though I play a few games that feature them.
From one perspective, it helps keeps the rest of the game cheaper for those of us who don't want to pay for cosmetics. I'd rather pay less for a game that has cosmetic purchases available than pay more for a game that has no such option - your mileage may vary, but that's part of what's cool about it, is that you can make your choice while I make mine.
So I won't rag on them too hard for this. Buy stuff to play dress-up with your characters if you want. Or don't. Or do what I did and play the trial version of the game, decide it's not your thing, and skip the whole thing.
@Robinsad yeah exactly but can't see that happening as micro transactions are primarily aimed at kids that don't understand the value of money
@themightyant very well said
@naruball fortnite is specifically what i had in mind for what I'm talking about so what a strange example. I'm not saying they don't change things up but it's pretty clear their focus is microtransactions.
and yes, there's been free dlc in Avengers but it doesn't seem fundamentally different than the mediocre offerings the base game boasts.
So many of these games just seem like excuses to sell you stuff but idk maybe I'm being narrow in my view because they usually aren't my type of game.
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