Topic: Official Push Square Xbox Thread

@Kidfried The naming has been atrocious since the 360, it beggars belief what on earth the boardroom idiots were thinking. I say ‘Series X’ incidentally, if I do have to reference the console.

@KilloWertz I don't disagree that Redfall is Disappointing and its not just the 'state' of the game at launch - which to be 'fair' is generally inherent in UE4 games this Generation. Its as bad as Star Wars: Jedi Survivor but I'd say it is better than Gotham Knights. As for the Game-play, the story, the style etc, those are all somewhat 'subjective' but overall, it has missed the mark.

However, I do object to the fact that the 'only' games that bring 'value' to Game Pass are the big AAA Exclusives. Whilst the idea of playing ALL first party games - regardless of whether they are 'smaller' passion projects (like Pentiment) or major AAA next Gen Exclusives (like Flight Sim) is a major attraction, the promise of at least 1 'big' AAA a 'quarter' from MS (their words), you can't deny that all the other Games add 'value'.

To say Game Pass is 'only' for Casuals is also completely wrong. Gamers don't just stick to their 'favourite' IP/Genre, they play 'everything' - excited by some Indies as much as any AAA games. You are 'not' stupid/moronic for paying $70 if you feel that its worth it to you but in terms of 'Value' that is the 'worst' - just to be amongst some of the first to play it. Most games launch 'incomplete' (or lacking 'features/modes' that get added later - Photo modes, Performance, new game+ etc) as well as patches to fix bugs/glitches and balance issues etc. Depending on the game, it can be 50% lower in cost and 50% 'better' than it was at launch - if that's 'OK' for you, carry on...

As I said, I don't think ANY game is worth that much - just because its 'new' when months later its less than half that price and arguably in a better state to be played. In other words, they become better games and better value by waiting. Would you be 'happy' paying £70 for Cyberpunk, Gotham Knights, Redfall etc - games that launched in a 'poor' state - especially now as Cyberpunk is in a much better state and much cheaper too. The fact is I can 'try' Redfall, not get 'sucked' in by the Hype to 'pre-order/buy' at launch, and still have that '£70' to spend on great games in Sales. I also don't think that 'PS5/XSX' should charge £10 'more' just because it gets closer to high end PC visual Quality. Redfall isn't in great place, maybe never will be, but I haven't wasted money on it and can move on to 'other' games until its 'fixed' (or just never return).

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that games like Vampire Survivors is a 'top' game on Game Pass bringing 'value' to that service, All the indies do as do the AAA games, 3rd party games etc. As I said, why would I play MLB, Back4Blood, Plague Tale, Minecraft: Legends etc etc too on PS5 when I can play them Day/Date on Xbox for 'free' essentially - meaning the money they 'cost' is in 'my' pocket. I still get the 'same' experience for a fraction of the cost adding to the 'value' of Game Pass - its NOT just AAA 1st Party Games like Forza, Starfield etc but Games in general

I will say that Game Pass isn't perhaps great (at the moment) for those who 'only' sub for AAA Exclusives nor Casuals because games get removed - you could start something and the next time you play, its 'gone' - as was claimed it was 'best' for - but for 'Gamers', there is great value. This year alone has had games like Goldeneye, AoE2, HiFi Rush, Atomic Heart, Wo Long, Valheim, MLB23, Minecraft Legends, Last Case of Benedict Fox etc etc with games like ExoPrimal, Lies of P, Starfield, Forza, Flintlock etc to come. Maybe not a 'lot' of AAA Exclusives but a lot of great games adding 'value' that would cost you a lot more to play without Game Pass or if you are on Playstation only - if you buy Atomic Heart and MLB23, that's the 'cost' of a year on GP and get more games inc those you bought on PS5. Maybe not all will be 90+ on metacritic either, but that doesn't mean a game isn't 'worth' playing because its only a 7/10. Maybe not all are AAA, but as Vampire Survivors proves, it can still be the BAFTA Game of the Year winner beating God of War & Horizon Forbidden West to that accolade.

I am 'defending' Xbox on a Playstation site to try and bring some 'balance' to the discussion as its a very one-sided and heavily bias towards PS. I am not happy with the state of Redfall, but I'd be a LOT more angry if I paid £70 and got that, got a game I can't 'play' for weeks/months because of technical issues - like I did with Cyberpunk 2077 for example. It's no worse than a LOT of UE4 games, better than some too from a technical perspective - but as this is a 'first' party release, its held up to more scrutiny and had far more expectation to live up to - and 'failed' to do so. I'd still rather play that than Destruction Allstars for example.

PS+ has 'no' value to me because the vast majority of titles - especially Sony's own first party, are games I OWN, I bought, I have played and/or finished by the time they are added. I could 'wait' for GoW:R (I bought H:FW anyway as they back tracked on the $70 and loved the first) to come to PS+ to add 'value' to me, but I expect to buy it before then in a sale, same with Spider-Man 2 - Black Friday is coming - same as I buy Ubisoft or EA or WB games for example, sometime after launch when they are cheaper and/or 'fixed'. I have never played a LOT of Game Pass games because they are 'new' when they come - games I liked or interested me and would have considered playing at some point (if my finances allowed) anyway.

Xbox has had a 'bad' week, but to say the 'only' value in Game Pass is AAA first Party games scoring 'high' on Metacritic to be 'worth' playing and only good for casuals is completely wrong. I believe ALL games have 'value' and some 'indies' are actually better from a game-play perspective than AAA games that look 'stunning' so to dismiss them too is wrong.

I am not denying Redfall 'failed' or that Xbox has had a Bad week, all I am saying is that Game Pass itself is still amazing value for 'GAMERS'. Casuals maybe won't play enough, lose access to games before they have finished playing etc to be 'put off' from paying the fee every month and if you are Subbing 'just' AAA 'exclusive' games that score 85+ on Metacritic because all 3rd Party multi-plat AAA 85+ games you'll 'buy' on PS5/Steam/PC anyway, its perhaps not worth it right now. But dedicated, hardcore gamers will always find something great to play, not be 'put' off because its not the 'visual' showcase and/or made by a small independent studio.

I am sure you as a Gamer don't 'just' play AAA games that score highly, enjoy playing a more varied selection, enjoy many indies etc and can see the 'value' in getting 'brand new' games every month to play. Its not 'stopping' me from playing AAA games not on Game Pass, in fact I have 'more' money to spend on them as I am not 'budgeting' to buy Starfield, Forza etc. I just won't spend £70 because I can buy a 'top' rated AAA game, albeit a few months or so after it launched for less and its likely to be in a much more playable state too.

All I said about the 'money' side of things - take MLB23, Wo Long and Lies of P - if you wanted to play on Playstation, that will cost more than 1yr of Game Pass yet on Xbox, you get those as well as numerous other 'new' releases so why would I 'buy' on PS5? Why spend more than 6months of GP for a single game I'll finish in a week or two - just to be amongst the 'first' to play it. Spider-Man 2 maybe a GotY contender, but so could Starfield and Forza will probably be the best Racing game of the year and Spider-Man 2 will no doubt be 'cheaper' when it comes to PC/PS+ (as well as places like Amazon, Game etc will drop prices too, and then there is also Ebay...

As a gamer, I play far more games, many of which I would of 'dismissed' because I didn't have the 'budget' so I too would only buy games I thought would be 'safe' purchases and/or highly rated AAA games because I couldn't afford to 'buy' everything that interested me. I would never buy Ori for example - an award winning indie game because its 'money' I could spend on something 'else' something 'bigger' in scale/scope etc on sale for similar cash that would present as 'better' value. Game Pass is 'better' value because for £12 a month, I get hundreds of 'great' games - some of which will be '£70' games, as well as all the £20-£40 indie/AA games, some of which do score 'well' on Metacritic and offer a wide variety of interesting ideas.

As I constantly say, each to their own - you have to decide what's right for you, your budget etc - but dismissing the 'value' of Game Pass based purely on AAA Exclusives - when its also providing numerous other AAA multi-platform releases, AA/Indie games etc too is somewhat ridiculous. Vampire Survivors (not really my thing) is BAFTA's 2022 Game of the Year - available on Game Pass.

I'm scared please protect me 😂

But yeah, I think you nailed it to be honest. Had Xbox's output been bigger over the last 12 or so months Redfall might have still bombed, but it would have also been probably fairly quickly forgotten about too, but for as much as Bam is saying otherwise, Xbox only fans are really starving right now if you are chasing that system selling exclusive.

I also felt so rough about paying full price for Ragnarok, but what a phenomenal game that turned out to be. I would have been gutted if that was on the level of Redfall, so thank Goodness for Gamepass in that regard 😂

@JohnnyShoulder I walked into that one, so I can't say much.

I'm still waiting on the day I can say I completely agree with something you posted.

@Pizzamorg Nope. You got yourself in this mess. You have to get yourself out.

Definitely. People would have been pissed initially, but then people would have fairly quickly turned their sights on to Starfield or just went back to the game they were playing previously. The fact that there was basically nothing in terms of major exclusives since late 2021 and Redfall was positioned as the first one since then made the whole thing far worse. Well, that and the fact that to most people it's a turd. A shame since it probably could have carved out a decent following for a while if it was even remotely finished. No matter how many awards an indie gem on Game Pass wins, it's the expected and promised major exclusives that would dig them out of this hole and is what a lot of fans want after all of the acquisitions and promises, and they are still gamers.

I only pay full price for the occasional major PlayStation exclusive, not counting the occasional indie title that releases far cheaper. I'll pay $70 for Final Fantasy XVI, but it's a game I want to play right away and Final Fantasy games that are timed exclusives might as well be considered PlayStation exclusives anyways.

The thing with Redfall is that its failure is a big deal in the context of Microsoft's own inability to release games at a decent clip. I think something like Pokemon Scarlet/Violet being buggy would have had a much bigger impact on the public perception of the Switch, for example, if that had been the platform's only major exclusive in 1.5 years.

@Kidfried If a console called the "Wii" can sell over 100 million units, I don't see why the Series X would have issues. It's far less confusing than "Xbox One" was, IMO.

I'm not personally of the opinion that the majority of consumers require simple numerical naming schemes to avoid confusion.

I do think they require games to be excited about, though.

@Ralizah Personally, I think Series S and X is a bit confusing, coming off the back of the already confusing Xbox One doesn’t help. Whether that’s actively damaging sales is up for debate. Consider that you may be right about “Wii”, but certainly the name “Wii U” did Nintendo not many favours!

@kyleforrester87 Literally nothing about the Wii U did Nintendo any favors. Most still think it's some sort of Wii accessory.

Anecdotal, but I've talked to normal folk who just sort of game casually, and they never seem confused about the Series S/X thing. I don't think it's a big deal.

@Ralizah yeah but that’s the point, calling it Wii U makes it sound like an accessory for the Wii. I think the problem I have with Series S and series X is just it doesn’t give you any immediate indication as to what the difference between them is. “Switch Lite”, “New 3DS”, “PS4 Pro”… ok I kind of know what I am getting.

@kyleforrester87 It was more the marketing, IMO. Early ads mostly show off the GamePad by itself. If I was a normie, I'd probably also think they were selling a fisher price tablet add-on to the Wii.

OK, come on, New Nintendo 3DS is literally the worst name ever. It made the thing impossible to look up online, because you had to suss out what someone meant by "new."

Switch "Lite" doesn't really convey 'handheld only' to me either, tbh. It also doesn't 'switch,' persay, since it's not a hybrid device.

The Series S/X name scheme followed One S/X, so most people with any awareness of the industry would immediately know the difference. I'm not saying they're the best names ever, or that nobody was ever confused by them, but I honestly think they're the least of Microsoft's problems atm.

@kyleforrester87 Its just keeping the same 'denominator' as the previous Gen -the 'HD' One S (which replaced the original XB1 VCR with slightly better specs too) and the more powerful 4k One X, now 'HD+' Series S or 4k Series X. In numerous ways, these are 'similar' as the more powerful hardware often had 'Performance/Quality' modes but the One S only had 'one' 30fps mode, One X had 'higher' quality Textures, Resolution and higher 'visual' settings (better Shadows, reflections etc, better particles/FX etc) than the One S too

Jump forward to this Gen, the Series S doesn't always have 'Performance' modes, often lower textures, resolution etc and often lacks some of the 'higher' visual settings - like RT shadows/reflections, lower particle/FX settings that the Series X offers - lower 'visual' settings and/or missing 'performance' modes - just like the One S was compared to the One X. Even with Back Compat, the Series S is 'locked' to One S versions whilst the Series X will offer One X versions so its 'keeping' consistency from previous Gen.

I see it as a continuation - the S denominating the base (HD+) hardware, the hardware not really designed for the latest 4k TV's and X denomination for their '4k' and/or 'Premium' console gamers.

I do agree that the 'naming' is bizarre, Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One (3rd), Xbox Series - but I think with the 'One S' launching in 2016, the One X in 2017, the 'S/X' is more 'understood' than the 'one' or 'series' naming which I expect is 'confusing'. Although 'one' was supposed to represent the 'one' media box to play TV, Movies and Games on and 'Series' is indicating that its more a 'iterative' console because it plays every 'XB1' game - many with 'iterative' improvements and its not a 'complete' refresh like we had with the One/PS4 era as neither brought their 360/PS3 games 'forward'. Even the spines on Games now don't say Xbox One (or Xbox Series) they just say 'Xbox'. Far Cry 6 states XB1/Series on the front, Dead Space (next gen only) just says Series X on the front - understandably as Series S owners won't be buying on Disc. I can tell which games I bought recently by the Spine as they have dropped the 'One' and now just say Xbox.

Playstation have always just added a 'number' after since the first and then add 'Slim, Pro, Super Slim' which does keep things easy - but as the Xbox One is no longer in production, I don't think you can confuse a black 'fridge' like design, built in DD and quite a jump up in price with something white that looks more like a Bluetooth speaker and a lot cheaper. Even if you asked your technophobic rich granny to get you a Series 'X' for Christmas, she could get 'confused' - just ask for the 'black one with a DD' and she can't go wrong... LOL

@Ralizah The only real issue with the Series X name is confusion with the Xbox One X. I blame it more on people being stupid than anything, but there were people who ordered the One X thinking they got the new system.

@KilloWertz All 'one' consoles - that's the One S, the One X and One 'SAD' (Slim All-digital but 'SAD' is apt for it as it only lasted a year in production) ceased manufacturing in 2020 and by November 2020, the Series S/X launched - obviously a very 'different' looking console - especially as the 'X' was designed for 'vertical' alignment primarily so I have to agree with you that its 'stupidity'. Even if they 'rushed' at the chance to get an 'X' and didn't stop to check it was the Series X. Its not as if MS continued making them so shops only had whatever 'stock' was still unsold...

Ordering one seems especially odd to me to - Considering retailers show pictures and 'describe' the product clearly as they have to by law - its clearly a different product and 'looks' the same as an XB1S. I am sure retailers still had 'some' stock, and places like Game, CEX etc no doubt have/had used 1X consoles taking in trade for newer hardware, but even then the 'price' should be a cue - an old, out of production console, now almost obsolete is going to be cheaper than one of the most desirable new Consoles on the market, commanding a $500 price 'new' and not much less 'used'. So I can only agree with 'stupidity' (or just being drunk ) while ordering has to be the reason because I would think its much harder to 'order' the wrong one, get the emails and invoice, dispatch confirmation etc detailing what you 'ordered' before it arrives a day+ later....

It's almost as bad as buying a PS4 instead of a PS5 because they both say Playstation on the box LOL

@Ralizah Never thought about the Switch Lite being that dumb of a name, but you're very right. It probably never really dawned on me, since I haven't used my Switch as a hybrid device since those first few months.

I will say that I'm in general fan of just adding a number. But that's because I think all hardware names get dumb pretty quick, so at least just numbers keep it simple. And maybe also more honest too; platform owners also act like their new console is this big revolution, where in truth it's often not much more than an iteration on their previous product.

(For that reason I never really liked the name DualSense; I just call it a DualShock 5!)

Starfield ESRB rating dropped

The dialogue sounds amazing. My favorite so far is: "Life is a sexually transmitted disease that's 100% fatal."

@Kidfried I think "Switch Lite" works for marketing purposes (Switch as the brand name, in particular), but the actually logic of it doesn't stand up to contextual scrutiny. It's even weirder when you consider the DS Lite was actually the superior model of that hardware family, but here is denotes hardware that is lacking functionality.

I think Nintendo gets a pass on not going with numbered hardware release for the most part, considering how experimental they frequently are. Their names are a mix of stupid and brilliant, IMO. I'm still impressed with the effective branding of names like "GameCube" (it's cube that you play games on), "Switch" (referencing the hybrid capabilities of the hardware in the name itself), and "3DS" (it's a DS with stereoscopic 3D capabilities; even if the gimmick itself wasn't popular, the name was on-point).

@Ralizah I always have this dilemma with Nintendo. I still don't know whether I should be surprised when they do something incredibly brilliant, or whether I should be surprised when they do something insanely stupid.

From that description Starfield sounds like a less brown Fallout. I'm extremely skeptical about the game, but I really hope it comes together this year!

@Kidfried Like with any relationship, you accept the bad with the good, and see how they balance out in the end.

I dunno. The gameplay in Starfield didn't look entirely dissimilar to something like No Man's Sky when you're running around alien planets. Then you have the more Fallout-ish shooting gameplay and big budget presentation. I'm not sure if it'll be for me, since I've been extremely unimpressed with everything BGS has released since Skyrim, but I'm willing to give them one more chance. Cyberpunk didn't exactly turn out to be the sci-fi action-rpg a lot of us were hoping for, after all.

I’ve been looking on eBay and it’s not worth going that route, seems around 400 or less would be the value and then eBay take 10%, CEX will give me more.

But I’ve done some soul searching, truth is I like my Xbox, I think I just don’t like Microsoft or Phil Spencer lol. And I can buy games cheap from CDKeys, their PS5 content is lacking, and it was a gift as were some of my games. I asked for money for a few Christmas and birthdays to buy it.

So I’m just going to keep it, I know if I sell it I’ll regret it later. I’ve looked on PSN and all the games I want are third party anyway, and cheaper on Xbox, only PS game I really like is Uncharted, so I think I’ll just buy a PS5 when a new Uncharted is out, I’ve still got my PS4 and it’s games so won’t lose them.

And I can’t give up Gears Of War and Quick Resume, just can’t lol. I’m gonna get Jedi Survivor for a blast now it’s fixed and a couple of the games on Xbox’s sale currently. Will keep me busy. Think I’ll stay off Game Pass for now though.

With any luck Sony will launch a PS5 Slim…. If I had bought all the games and the console myself it may be a different story, but sentimental value and all that.

Damn, I want to slap this on a bumper sticker, or maybe one of those motivational posters.

@Ralizah lol Sounds like something Dr. Nick would say in The Simpsons.

This was a really interesting podcast starring Peter Moore. He doesn’t specifically mention Xbox and the primary content is mainly football and Wrexham AFC related… but he does discuss his life including his experience within the gaming industry. Seems an intelligent and driven guy… and provides some interesting perspectives: