Topic: Official Push Square Xbox Thread

@johncalmc @Ralizah Pretty sure it's a case of appearing weak to try and convince the European Commission to approve the Activision acquisition.

@KilloWertz You know, I'm going to keep it short, because I don't want to spiral into some console war discussion. But to me Xbox' first party output so far this year (and the rest of this year) isn't inferior to PlayStation's.

I'll just repeat what I said, Xbox gets almost all great games anyway, I think it's a great time to play on the platform. The doom and gloom that this one failed game seems to throw on the brand just seems to me out of proportion.

@Kidfried I couldn't agree more - If Zenimax wasn't owned by MS, I doubt it would have been held up to the same scrutiny and certainly wouldn't have been 'unexpected' to release in a 'unfinished' state - just look at all the other games releasing on the market that really needed more time spent.

Star Wars: Jedi Survivor for example is terrible and 'most' of the issues with Redfall are inherent in most UE4 games releasing on ALL platforms - the traversal stutter, numerous bugs/glitches etc are very common.

I do agree that MS perhaps should have been more 'pro-active' with this - but you wouldn't have got a 'different' game, a 'different' story or way of presenting that story etc - it would likely have arrived with 30/60fps modes and a more polished experience - as Phil said, the Coalition would have been needed 6+ months ago to deliver 60fps at launch, but they 'assumed' that as Arkane were 'well' into development of Redfall, that they had the structure, the people in place etc to finish it - too far in to 'really' interfere and/or make 'necessary' changes to help the Studio complete their 'vision'. A few months ago, everyone was going on about how this was 'pulled' from Playstation, was in 'development' for that platform, and now its solely MS's Albatross...

Since E3 2021 - not even 2yrs ago - MS has released:
MSFS (True 'next gen' game on Console)
Psychonauts 2
Deathloop
Forza Horizon 5 (many Peoples GotY) + 2 DLC expansions
Halo Infinite
Dawn to Dusk
Ghostwire
Grounded
Pentiment
Hi-Fi Rush
Age of Empires 4
Age of Empires 2
Goldeneye
Minecraft Legends
Redfall

Not every game released 'exclusively' or was a AAA budget game, but the majority reviewed very well - Can't say 'every' Playstation game hit the mark either - Destruction Allstars...

I still enjoy gaming on my Series X and 'one' poor game isn't the 'end' of Xbox with Forza, Starfield, Hellblade etc on the horizon. Redfall isn't up to the 'standards' expected from a First Party studio, but its 'typical' of numerous releases. Its funny that Elden Ring, a game that's 'unplayable' at 30fps due to incorrect frame pacing (typical with FromSoft games) and a 60fps mode that regularly doesn't hold 60fps (especially at launch) isn't held to the same Standards expected. If that was a 'first party' game, it would be 'unacceptable' to release in that 'state'. Same with Jedi Survivor, expected to be a GotY contender, yet has many of the 'same' issues too...

I feel like you're, whether intentionally or not, missing the point people are making here. Sure, Xbox has all the 3rd party stuff, and sure, Sony has had a slow year so far. But if you are someone who can only afford one console, and you know PlayStation delivers titles like God of War, Last of Us, Spider-Man etc, why would anyone ever by an Xbox console as it is right now?

Even the performance stuff, it seems like despite the Xbox being more powerful under the hood, it comes with far worse optimised titles, as PS5 games generally run a lot better, as well.

Saying that 'its fine cause Xbox gets third party games too' is absurd levels of cope, even if it is unintentional, and I am so glad Xbox don't use your same defeatist attitude to their approach, as then nothing would get better.

On Metacritic at least, it is now under 60 on both PC and Xbox now 😬

@Pizzamorg Disagree with the word cope here. I think the word cope belongs in a console war context, not a context I care for at least.

If you care for Game Pass, the big Bethesda hitters and smaller titles more than you care for big exclusives than Xbox is a better deal for you than PlayStation.

But aside from all that, I think the reason for picking one over the other is generally speaking (not saying that's the case on everyone's personal level) smaller than many outlets and online discourse make it out to be. If I only had an XSS, there would still be more great games available to methan I could ever play. And I would have spent way less money than I have now.

During the PS2 era, I only owned a GameCube. Missed out on so many great games. But I had a great time all the way until 2006. It's kind of laughable to me now, but people back then called it absurd levels of cope or however they would have called it back then. I thought that kind of comments to be pretty disrespectful to me too.

Basically, I'm arguing for a less extreme way of looking at things. Maybe you think that from your point of view PlayStation is a better deal in every way, doesn't mean Xbox-only gamers are dealt a bad hand.

You are right that Gamepass is a better deal than PlayStation in a general sense, but if you are someone who chases new experiences, then Gamepass really isn't as high value as it is in general on paper, and maybe it still doesn't mean it is a "bad hand", but it still isn't a great one. Gamepass is great for clearing backlog titles, or trying out indies or weirdies you might not have wanted to pay full price for, for sure, but I do think the lack of quality, first party, day one exclusives for Xbox hurts the value of Gamepass, too.

Xbox has its purpose as a third party machine ; it’s more powerful and the closest thing to a PC for someone who doesn’t care about sonys exclusives. if you don’t care about sonys exclusives , there’s no reason to get a ps5 over an xbox. it’s plenty of things Xbox does better , but they don’t know how to utilize what their potential is and they’re just completely lost .

nintendo knew their potential was in first party and quirkiness so they’ve capitalized on it ever since . Sony makes good big budget interactive cinematics & they’ve ran with it ever since. M$ doesn’t care about Xbox and trying to phase it out into a service app like steam .

@Kidfried What I see EVERYWHERE in the Xbox community, and have seen for years now, is growing anger and disappointment over the direction the company is going, which is the difference. Playstation and Nintendo fans are happily chattering right now in their respective communities about exclusives they're excited for. Meanwhile, aside from 2021 when the company seemed to have its stuff together and released some decent games, Xbox fans have had to endure endless disappointments. And even the centerpiece of that 2021 triumph, Halo Infinite, is now a source of anger and disappointment for Xbox fans, as they've apparently done a terrible job of maintaining the multiplayer aspects, which are what Halo fans stick with the series for.

Personally? I'm not all that much more interested in a PS5 than I am an XSX, and I've been critical of Sony's direction in terms of the sort of games it makes for years now. But I'm a minority in that regard, and the base broadly seems pretty happy with how the company has been performing.

@Pizzamorg I stand corrected! 😂

@nomither6 Xbox also doesn't get a good number of Japanese third-party games, for some reason. Perhaps not your cup of tea, but some of us are still gamers FOR those types of games.

Microsoft used to counteract this weakness by making deals with Japanese developers for exclusive games on their platform during the 360 era, and even attempted to during the One era (with Scalebound, which exploded in their faces), but that's yet another thing they don't do anymore. Again, the brand is on auto-pilot.

@Pizzamorg Gamepass is great for clearing backlog titles, or trying out indies or weirdies you might not have wanted to pay full price for, for sure, but I do think the lack of quality, first party, day one exclusives for Xbox hurts the value of Gamepass, too.

I disagree - Backlog games are already in your 'backlog' so don't need Game Pass for that. If you 'missed' out on 'older' games because you didn't buy them when they were 'current', they are still 'new' games to you. If I didn't own a PS5, Deathloop and Ghostwire are still 'new' to Xbox and Xbox only gamers. Every month, there is 'brand new' games added, games you don't have in your backlog. Not all are 'Indie' or 'smaller' budget either. In the last few years, MLB21, 22, 23, Plague Tale, Back4Blood and 'numerous' other big releases have been available Day 1 on Game Pass - saving gamers 'money' compared to playing on other Platforms. I am never going to buy these 3rd Party games on PS5 as a result - even in a sale because I can play it elsewhere cheaper...

Yes it maybe good for games you aren't sure are worth the asking price as well - maybe High on Life or Scorn were too weird or 'different' to your prefered taste in games but that is more indicative of your tastes - perhaps you are only interested in 'mainstream' generic game-play loops wrapped up in a 'pretty' visual package and using the 'story' to keep you playing a repetitive game-play loop, only interested in things that are 'familiar' to you and anything 'new' or 'different is just 'weird', but others want something new, something different, something unusual or unique, don't stick to specific genre or same few 'IP's' every generation. As you can ONLY play 1 game at a time, it doesn't matter if its Indie, 3rd or 1st party, doesn't matter how much it cost to make or the size of the Studio, doesn't matter if its 'new' or 'old', its still occupying your gaming time. Just because games like Doom, Fallout 3:NV or Minecraft are old games, they are still 'great' games and can still fill your gaming time.

I refuse to spend $/£70 on ANY game - no game is worth that much to me. There is NO game I 'must' play Day 1 that I need to spend that much. So between my Backlog of games I have yet to finish across PS4/XB1/PS5/XSX consoles (as both XSX and PS5 are backwards compatible so I can 'finish' games I bought last gen too), free games on Gold/PS+ every month adding to that Backlog, that even without Game Pass, I still have a LOT of great games to play so don't need to spend money on something, just because its new. Now add Game Pass to that which not only has 'old' games I missed out on, it also has lots of brand new releases coming every month. So not all are 1st Party AAA 'exclusives', but it still offers me a LOT more brand new games I couldn't play for just $10 a month. Vampire Survivors may 'not' appeal to you because its not AAA, doesn't have the 'best' graphics etc, but it beat God of War to the best Game Bafta. You'll call it weird or just dismiss it because it isn't AAA but obviously nailed the game-play loop that people find highly enjoyable and very addictive. I appreciate that 'everyone' has different preferences etc, but ALL games compete for your time/attention and Game Pass helps break down the barriers gamers put up - not spending money on Indies, not spending money on games they aren't 'sure' are for them, only buying games in certain IP's, genres etc because its 'safer' etc etc.

All games compete for my time - I don't care who made it, what budget it cost etc. I can only play 1 game at a time so every game - new/old, regardless of budget etc is competing for my time. The fact that I have access to 100's of great games - inc older games on Sale competing for my time and 'money'. I would rather pay £20 for an 'older' PS5 game in a Sale than buy something newly released costing £70 so I'd check this weeks sales before playing Spider-Man 2 when it launches. I'll be playing games available for 'free' on Game Pass, playing whatever PS+/Gold games are in my 'library', playing any of the games in my backlog until Spider-Man 2 drops below at least £50, preferably £40 or less. If it takes a year or more, well I have 'plenty' of great games to keep playing, new releases too...

As for 'Exclusives', Game Pass has many 'great' games from the history of Xbox and have a lot of games on the Horizon. Over the past few years, 'exclusives' may have been thin - with many coming to PS too thanks to 'legacy' - inc both Minecraft Dungeons/Legends, as well as Psychonauts 2, Deathloop, Ghostwire etc and PC only too (Age of Empires 4 - with a Console version coming to Game Pass too) but again, why would I buy Deathloop or Psychonauts 2 on PS5 when I can play them on GP for a lot less money? Just buying Deathloop and Ghostwire, (Or MLB22 & B4B, or any two AAA games that also released on PS5) at launch costs more than a year (at full price) of Game Pass yet can play those, as well as hundreds of other games, inc Starfield, Forza, AoE2, AoE4, HiFi Rush, Goldeneye, Last case of Benedict Fox, MLB23, Redfall (even if its not the 'best' game released, its no worse than many other AAA games at launch in terms of bugs, glitches, performance issues etc) and whatever other games come this year - so I get to play MANY great games, new, new to me, old, indie,, AA, AAA, 3rd/1st Party etc etc for less money than you can play '2' great games on PS5 new...

Game Pass doesn't suit everyone, but its not just for the '4' AAA Games a year MS 1st Party Studios are 'aiming' to deliver - 1 a quarter. It offers a wide variety of 'games' with a much smaller barrier for gamers to be able to jump in and 'enjoy' playing anytime. You don't 'need' to buy a Game again with ALL the games in Game Pass - you'll never have time to play them ALL and 'new' games come every week...

That is sorta what I was trying to articulate @BAMozzy, albeit poorly based on your response (outside of all of the weird projection stuff I just skimmed over). If you are a capital G Gamer then Gamepass probably has relatively low value to you, as you are chasing the new, exclusive, thing, which as of right now Gamepass generally does not provide outside of a small selection of non platform exclusive third party titles. It also excellent for trying out stuff you wouldn't ever consider paying full price for.

However, if you are a more "casual" (hate the term) lower case g gamer then Gamepass is excellent value because you get a massive selection of premium titles all under one subscription.

@Pizzamorg You are completely WRONG - as a 'G' Gamer as you put it, there is ALWAYS something NEW on Game Pass - not 'just' Exclusives - the '4' a year that maybe a PS5 owner might bother to Subscribe to play 'just' those because ALL the other games they can 'buy' on PS5 or 'only' indies and not worth your valuable gaming time which can only be 'spent' on those 'few' games a year you really 'play'

To me, Game Pass is Perfect for the Hardcore Gamer - always something new, something different, something to add to their overall gaming experiences. It doesn't matter if its 'indie', I really enjoyed some when I wanted a 'break' or try something 'different to' whatever AAA games I'm playing. Every month there are 'big' game releases - MLB is a AAA game that if I ONLY had PS5, would be 'forced' to pay the asking price or miss out, Plague Tale - maybe not 'AAA' but AA and high quality, Back4Blood was 'AAA', Age of Empires II is a AAA game - first time on Console, So was Ghostwire and Deathloop, both within the past 6months and for the 'first' time available on Xbox hardware. Every month, there are 'big' games, Atomic Heart, Lies of P, Forza, Starfield, Redfall (still a 'big' game) - so every month there are GAMES for GAMERS...

Its 'great' too for those 'new' to Gaming to have a collection of games they can play - many of which they may of missed - great to play through the entire Halo, Gears, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Doom, Wolfenstein etc games to 'catch up', Great for anyone with a 'broad' gaming palette, not narrow minded and only focussed on 'brand new AAA games' that are rated 90+ on Metacritic to waste my time on' or 'casual gamers who may start a game and find it gone the next time they try to play it...

It really is for GAMERS - not 'the Casual' so much as you seem to think. It just doesn't suit you (or those who only want AAA exclusives scoring high on metacritic) because you have a very 'narrow' band of what you consider 'worthy' of your time instead of being open and willing to see what all these developers have poured their heart and soul into bringing to GAMERS, Seeing what unique ideas, concepts, twists/turns, message etc - and only want AAA games that score high on metacritic to make it worth your time to 'try' it....

How many of this years top third party exclusives are on Gamepass @BAMozzy? Some, sure, but not all of them. So saying I am completely wrong and in all caps no less is honestly kinda laughable to be honest.

I'm also confused because you are saying I am wrong and then explaining how you use Gamepass to play games that you wouldn't ordinarily pay for, which is literally what I said in the post above.

I also like all the judgmental nonsense in your messages as well, you don't know anything about me, and it makes me take nothing you say seriously when you act like that. How about you cool off and come back when you learn how to have a proper conversation?

@Pizzamorg Again - there have been 'numerous' highly rated 3rd Party games, not 'necessarily' exclusive or AAA - Vampire Survivors isn't AAA, but it is a TOP 'Bafta Award Winning' third Party game on Game Pass - so was Hi-Fi Rush, AoE 2, Pentiment etc etc - but because they are not 'AAA' or necessarily brand new (AoE2) doesn't make them somehow not worth playing or somehow makes Game Pass worse.

You just proves my point that you are only concerned about AAA highly rated games as being 'worthy' of your time - nothing else - 'top' games but ignore 'top' indie/AA games or any game that's not exclusive to Xbox even though its still adding 'value' as I don't need to spend £70 to play now, just only count 1st party AAA Exclusives because the rest are 'valueless', pointless, not worth your time or the sub fee. I as a 'GAMER' play those AAA games too, but I also play 'other' games and Game Pass gives me access to a whole range of games that I just could not afford to play. I can still play God of War Ragnarok, Spider-Man or any of the AAA games but I also won't be 'ripped' off by paying £70 for something that will be 'patched, fixed and/or improved with added options/features' and cheaper at a later date, when I have 'other' AAA £70 games I can play for 'free' on Game Pass, other great games made by independent and/or 3rd Party studios. I wouldn't normally pay for 'some' of those games because I don't have an 'unlimited' budget so had to be much more selective on how I used my money - now I can play those games and get great enjoyment from them - I don't have to miss out - which as a Gamer can be 'annoying' to miss out o great games because you don't have the budget to play everything...

Your 'whole' opening line of how many 'top' third party exclusives are on game pass just proves my point - TRUE Gamers don't just play the 'top' rated games, they play a wide variety from indies to AAA, from 1st, 3rd or small independent studios across a wide range of genres, styles etc. Minecraft is just as important as Last of Us or Ghost of Tsushima - not 'worse' because it doesn't look as good or wasn't made by a AAA studio. Ori is an award winning IP too yet not AAA and the fact you dismiss them and ALL the other games 'old or new' (A lot of old games also were rated highly at the time.

So there are a LOT of 'top' games on Game Pass from a critical perspective - but again, that doesn't mean that some 6/7 rated games aren't 'good' games worth playing if you are a 'gamer'...

When you keep going on about AAA 'top' rated 'exclusive' games, dismissing ALL the other games because they are not within that very 'narrow' criteria, its not that difficult to come to that conclusion - call it judgemental if you like, but that's only because that's how you present, what you say - the conclusion is obvious. Like I said, I'll never buy MLB, Deathloop, Ghostwire, Back 4 Blood, Plague Tale or ANY of the other AAA 'multi-platform' game on Playstation because I can play them on Game Pass for much cheaper - which as a GAMER benefits me - more great games for LESS money. Deathloop is an award winning highly rated game on Game Pass as is Vampire Survivors, Hifi Rush, Pentiment etc. Therefore when the evidence points to someone being 'wrong' and/or extremely narrow minded to think that the 'only' games worth playing, therefore the only 'value' in Game Pass to be 'found' is in those AAA highly rated Exclusives despite all those 100's of great games. I can play Starfield, Forza, Vampire Survivors, Hifi Rush, Pentiment, and '100's' of great games for less money than you can play God of War and Spider-man 2 - it doesn't make them 'worse' games because they are on Game Pass and presents far better value to appeal to GAMERS who enjoy playing GAMES - not just AAA '1st party' exclusives...

Genuinely dunno what your problem is @BAMozzy I said Gamepass is great for indies and experimental titles you may not want to spend full price on, but you just keep rambling about how I only like triple A games. In the immortal words of Hulk Hogan, don't work yourself into a shoot brother 😂

Right? What is this guys problem, dude is so rude 😂 Less candid about Xbox's limitations than Phil Spencer. 😂

@Pizzamorg it is Phil spencer… 🎵 dun Dun DUN! 😎

That would explain a lot, to be honest. 😂

@Pizzamorg I've been on your side of the Xbox argument with him before. It's a very weird situation where he claims not to be a fanboy, owns a PS5, but then goes to Xbox's defense as if he was Mel Gibson in Braveheart. I know he'll read this as well, and that's fine, as it's nothing him and I haven't discussed in the past and moved on from.

If nothing else, there's no denying that Xbox had an absolutely horrendous week. A decent amount of good smaller games do not make up for making fans wait so long for the big games, only to have the first one since the Halo Infinite debacle be another debacle overall. Whether a person thought much of Redfall from what they saw, it has been marketed as the first big exclusive since their strong few months in 2021. I must be a moron though for paying $70 for Horizon Forbidden West, God of War Ragnarok, and Spider-Man 2 shortly.

@KilloWertz I agree with everything you just posted, which must be a first.

Which of course includes you being a moron.

How much do you all think the Xbox is still suffering from its extremely dumb and confusing name? Three years on and while everybody says PS5, it's like people are ashamed to say Xbox Series X in public (I know I am)