@Jimmer-jammer I haven’t quite finished it yet. I have just the last episode to go. I’ll drop some extended thoughts when I complete it but at the 4/5 mark I’m really liking it so far. But I liked the first one and it’s Before the Storm prequel, so difficult to make a sweeping recommendation for it unless you have pre-existing love of the franchise or the genre. But the ‘tale of two sons’ that the game portrays is really a highlight.
So I completed my playthrough of Life is Strange 2 (Hereafter oft referred to as LiS2)
There are a couple excellent reviews already on the user review thread and I don’t think I have much critique to add to those, so I’ll try to keep my expansive thoughts more targeted over here, more as mere discussion and reaction.
I was a big fan of the original Life is Strange and even more so Before the Storm. I had my reservations about LiS2 being about completely new characters and situations. Granted, there is actually more intertwined narrative threads with the preceding games than I realized, but it’s still largely an independent story. I had my concerns about the storyline and narrative focus, but with few exceptions (some of which are outlined below), the tale is relatable and reasonable. Nearly every fictional story has moments and beats that fall flat or miss their intended mark. LiS2 isn’t a perfect narrative by any stretch, but it stirred some emotions in me, and that’s really all we can ask for, at the end of the day.
First off, these LiS games are really shoddy when it comes to performance and visuals, but what it lacks in Mo-cap performance, it makes up for in voice acting and script writing. I mean, this isn’t Shakespeare or Hemingway, but there’s some effective storytelling in play and largely driven by good VA and timing. The music in these games is always essential to mood creation and LiS2 does get this right most of the time.
Amongst my early gripes was how lackadaisical the adjacent characters treated the Diaz brothers’ situation. The direness of their plight is well established with Sean and Daniel, but the subsequent carefree approach to harboring criminals accused of murder seemed to be rather half-hearted, at least early on. Aiding and abetting a suspected murderer (of a police officer, no less) is no causal thing, and so when Brody and later the boys’ grandparents were helping and sheltering them, I had trouble taking that seriously. Even all the friends at the farm were probably legally culpable, although they all seemed to have plenty of other issues to worry about. The fear of legal repercussions of knowingly helping a suspected criminal is finally touched upon, primarily with the mother, so it came around eventually.
The fourth episode was probably the weirdest, imo. I think that Daniel being brought into a religious cult was an interesting direction to take, but it felt very at-odds with the Daniel that I was cultivating through my decisions. He had just been working on an illegal pot farm, was best buds with a quintessential anti-establishment character in Finn, was gratuitously expanding his 4-letter word vocabulary, and (at least in my playthrough) establishing an increasingly close bond with Sean. So for Daniel to make a 180 degree about-face and choose to live a life of religious zealotry and refuse to reunite with Sean was too harsh a tonal shift to swallow.
As far as my choices, I continued to emphasize my relationship with Daniel above all else, and wanted to be sure to make it to Mexico with him in tow. So I imagine if I’d been taking a high morality approach then maybe episode 4 would have been a little more logical. But then episode 3 would have felt weird.
I guess I can respect Dontnod’s attempt to throw all fringe aspects of life at the wall, and give the player the opportunity to see, experience, and react to all kinds of marginalized sects. Even the ‘off-the-grid’ community brought an interesting peek into a lifestyle most of us would never know existed. Nevertheless, in their attempt to showcase the full breadth of societal outcasts, it comes across a little disjointed from the type of person that the player is trying to make Sean (and as a result, Daniel) into.
I am really impressed with the upgrade in how choices alter outcomes in this game, versus the previous LiS games. There’s several endings and the way to get them is not always just a limited number of binary decisions. Things done way back in the first two episodes will influence your ending. It’s not quite on the level of Detroit Become Human, but it’s leagues more intricate than Telltale. I decided not to replay the game to see the various different endings and rather looked them up online. I read a description and haven’t watched video footage of the endings I didn’t get, but I’ll probably do that eventually.
⚠️ The following two paragraphs are spoilers for my ending, so if you have interest in going in blind for a second playthrough then read at your own risk. I have tried to be vague about the details of the ending though and I don’t divulge the exact results, per se. ⚠️ —
I was a little surprised by the ending I got. All along I had prioritized keeping the brothers together, at all cost. I trusted no one else to be a potential guardian for Daniel, until late in the game when Karen finally shows up and she ends up being a reasonable person. I did mend my relationship with her and ultimately forgave her (although her whole abandonment thing was still really strange and at odds with the character traits she possessed) but I had committed myself to getting to Mexico with Daniel, at all costs. I knew we were innocent victims to a corrupt and prejudiced system, so I knew there would be a risk of collateral harm. What I underestimated was that through my choices I was teaching Daniel to live ‘above the law’ and created a monster in the process. So the ending I got, “Blood Brothers”, is not the worst ending, but it was not necessarily idyllic. I guess I got what I asked for, given how I raised Daniel. But it was frustrating to see the brothers end up in that situation in order to stay together.
It’s really weird because this is the second of such surprising endings in these games where I struggle all along and then at the end go scortched earth on the ‘antagonists’ for a chaotic and destructive ending. The same thing happened to me with Detroit Become Human and in a moment of weakness I reigned down hellfire there too. The “Blood Brothers” ending did have some really cool visuals and I have to admit that it gave me goosebumps to see Daniel’s full power and fury go off in a violent maelstrom. It felt very video-gamey and superhero-like, so perhaps that’s why I ended up going that route.
Sorry for the copious spoilers. It’s difficult to talk about how the game resonated with me without referencing specifics. In conclusion, I really enjoyed LiS2, even amidst all its warts and jank. If you like choice and accountability story based games, then there’s a lot to like here.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Pizzamorg@RogerRoger@Killowertz@Tjuz@Jimmer-jammer
(And anyone else I may have forgotten who’s discussed Life is Strange lately. I feel like there was someone else who had wanted to hear my thoughts when I played this, but I apologize that I can’t remember who you were 😅)
If you’re interested, some of my impressions of Life is Strange 2 are above. I’ve tried to be liberal with spoiler tags, for those who haven’t played the game yet. And for those who have, I noted where I talk about my ending, just in case you plan to play the game again to experience alternate endings.
For those who played it, I’d be interested in how you felt about the ending you got and whether you felt it tracked with the decisions you were making.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Jimmer-jammer Yes, the overlap with the first two games is fun to see, but more of an Easter Egg type of callback. Some of the references might go over your head but it won’t distract from the game to not pick up on them. In fact, if you’ve played even part of the first game that’ll be enough to catch some of the references.
Actually, if you’re going to play a prequel to the game I’d recommend playing the free demo to it called “The Adventures of Captain Spirit”. It has a more direct relationship to the game and it enhanced part of the game to have played that first. Like the first LiS games, the demo is also non-essential if you want to skip it, but I’m glad I played it first. The game will detect if you have a save file for the demo and in my case it prompted me to finish it when the crossover was about to occur. (I had started the demo but not finished it) I did find the demo more boring than the actual game itself, so don’t get too frustrated if you aren’t attached to the narrative there. It doesn’t do a very good job of selling the game but I thought it was really cool the way it was integrated.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Jimmer-jammer Yes, that’s right. It’s more or less a standalone chapter which introduces the general gameplay mechanics (if “gameplay” is even the word) and gets you accustomed to the way the game works. It’s basically like the first Life is Strange mechanistically so you’ll feel familiar.
The problem is that the standalone nature of the demo means that you’re dropped in on the situation with no context, and so it’s not very satisfying, but the actual game itself will give the narrative context to make it worthwhile.
But yes, the narrative material in the demo is not contained in the game and you wouldn’t see any of it otherwise.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution A great read! I dunno if it was just because I played all of the Life is Strange games back to back and I was so damn invested in Rachel and Chloe by the end of Before the Storm that I just had no room left in my heart, but I just bounced off of Life is Strange 2 really hard. Think I made it to episode 3, and I just decided I had enough and wasn't enjoying it at all. Even though in some regards it shows genuine evolution for the Life is Strange franchise, so much of it felt like major regression in what I would say are really key areas for these games. Like the performances, the writing and the world building. I just thought the whole thing felt lost and aimless and it was so odd how little momentum it felt it had, given the catalyst for the story.
But I did also agree that it was crazy how much more tangible your choices felt. There is so much smoke and mirrors in the first Life is Strange, and True Colors really minimised the nature of choice, giving the player mostly small choices to make, with bigger parts of the story being unchanging or only affected in binary A or B choices with fixed outcomes only affected by that one decision.
Here, even in those three episodes, I got immediate feedback from each choice in how I was shaping the story. Like it was night and day beyond anything else in the series. And really, like you say, has to be up there in this style of game in that regard just like in general. I don't think I've played many of these style of games where I felt like I was so genuinely shaping my story like I was here.
Like I say, it is just a shame the story I was shaping was one I just wasn't ever all that interested in.
@Pizzamorg Yeah that’s interesting. I think the story of LiS2 definitely is more relatable if you either A) have a younger sibling, B) had a parent abandon you or die, C) are part of a social minority or victim of unfair prejudice, D) a registered U.S. voter, or E) like road trips. 😅
I related more to Sean than to Max or Chloe, although I definitely enjoyed their respective games too. But I see what you’re saying about LiS2 feeing lost, aimless, and lacking momentum. Especially at episode 3 where things get odd. By virtue of the fleeing the cops roadtrip, there is constant intro of new characters that are only there temporarily. So if you don’t click with Daniel or Sean, then you’re hosed
The end is really interesting, so if you ever go back, it will pay off when you make it there.
How did you like Detroit Become Human? I can’t remember if you got along with that one.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Pizzamorg Yeah that’s interesting. I think the story of LiS2 definitely is more relatable if you either A) have a younger sibling, B) had a parent abandon you or die, C) are part of a social minority or victim of unfair prejudice, D) a registered U.S. voter, or E) like road trips. 😅
I related more to Sean than to Max or Chloe, although I definitely enjoyed their respective games too. But I see what you’re saying about LiS2 feeing lost, aimless, and lacking momentum. Especially at episode 3 where things get odd. By virtue of the fleeing the cops roadtrip, there is constant intro of new characters that are only there temporarily. So if you don’t click with Daniel or Sean, then you’re hosed
The end is really interesting, so if you ever go back, it will pay off when you make it there.
How did you like Detroit Become Human? I can’t remember if you got along with that one.
I actually have the younger sibling and the dead parent, so I am full shounen protagonist 😂 But yeah, I dunno, I have only really related properly to the True Colors cast and really grew to love Chloe and Rachel through Before the Storm. I basically just need it to be written by Deck Nine it seems.
I think you are right about LIS2, while the other games have a pretty big cast as well, there is a real core sense to them and they are built over the course of the game. Whereas at least by episode 3, 2 is a revolving door of extra characters you either like and are disappointed when they exit stage left almost immediately or just feel nothing for because they are around for a short time. The brothers really are there to be the players anchor point, but if you don't care for them like I didn't, then you have nothing to keep you from drifting away from this entirely.
I loved Detroit Become Human! I played that through a few times now. Have it loaded up on my deck to do another playthrough at one point. I liked Quantic Dream's Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain too. These style of games are my jam.
@Th3solution I look forward to actually reading you review of the game at some point. Not knocking the review as I do appreciate the extreme caution to avoid spoiling anything unlike some people do, although we do seem to have gotten away from that here thankfully.
Anyways. barring a sudden change of my mind, I have decided I will finally play Life is Strange 2 after I am done with Final Fantasy XVI. I have no idea when that will be, and I'm ok with that as I am still highly enjoying Final Fantasy XVI, but I think Life is Strange 2 will be the perfect game to play after playing a pretty lengthy game like that. It's "free" anyways since it's on Extra.
PSN ID/Xbox Live Gamertag: KilloWertz
Switch Friend Code: SW-6448-2688-7386
@KilloWertz Oh yeah, that should work well for you to take a break and do LiS2 after FF16. I gravitated to it because I squeezed too many big games in quick succession and needed a break.
@Pizzamorg Yes, the Quantic Dream games are probably the pinnacle of the genre. Heavy Rain and Fahrenheit are great, but DBH is where it has peaked so far. I’ve yet to play Beyond Two Souls, but I really should. I get the impression that it’s less about choice-and-consequence storytelling though.
If you really enjoy these, I assume you’ve already done some of the Supermassive collection then? Until Dawn is quite good. I have The Quarry queued up as maybe my next of the genre to try. Extra has the first two entries of the Dark Pictures Anthology as well.
Of course there’s always old Telltale games to go to, which are a mixed bag. The Wolf Among Us, Batman 1&2, TWD (although I never played the final season), and Tales from the Borderlands are the best, imo. But the Telltalw formula is harder to go back to because there’s much less consequence to one’s choices.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
I've played almost everything at this point I think @Th3solution but weirdly just not finished a lot of it. Played through the first two Dark Pictures games, never got around to finishing the third and not picked up the newest one yet. Played through Until Dawn a few times, but not in years, although it is on my PS5 so maybe I need to give it another run. Played through The Quarry on launch, thought it was good but didn't love it quite like others did. I did start a second playthrough but didn't finish it and haven't been back.
In terms of Telltale I've also finished the first season of The Walking Dead multiple times, I played some of the sequel seasons, but I don't think I played all of them or the spin offs. I've also finished Wolf Among Us multiple times too. I've played a bunch of others like Borderlands, Batman and Guardians of the Galaxy but not actually finished any of them.
@Th3solution Great to read your thoughts on LiS2! Nothing you said I can particularly disagree with, but I'm glad you were also able to still enjoy the game much in spite of its more questionable choices. Personally, I was more invested in this world and these characters than I've probably still ever been in a game, so I never felt bothered by any of the points you raised in the slightest. But of course, in hindsight I can acknowledge many of them are also absolutely not wrong, haha. Good to hear you at least felt mostly satisfied by your ending. I got the Parting Ways ending and remember being absolutely devastated by it, even though I do consider it the "best" one myself having read and seen the others afterwards.
And since you all were discussing these choice & consequence genre in general, I would love to recommend keeping an eye on Stray Gods. It's coming out in a few weeks and I could not be more excited. Might not be your thing if you are not into musicals, but I think it looks very promising. I know new Telltale is also releasing a video game based on The Expanse very soon. I have mixed feelings on that one but I hope it turns out well as I enjoyed the show for the first three seasons. Wish they would hurry up and get to releasing The Wolf Among Us 2 already though!
@Tjuz Thanks, and I realize now that in that post I over-emphasized the things that I found fault with and didn’t give the game props when it did things right. Because yes, the brothers characterization and story was very engaging and I grew very invested in their struggles and plight. I was really touched by several of the story points and events.
After I finished the game I went back and re-read your review of the game and was also very touched by your words and how you shared with us how the game moved you. It was a really great impression piece and exemplifies why I love gaming and this community so much. Like all art, games really have the power to enrich the human experience.
And thanks for the heads-up about Stray Gods. I wasn’t familiar with the game but I’ll definitely keep an eye out now. I’m also cautiously hopeful of The Expanse. I only watched part of the first season of the show, and didn’t read the books, so I’m not sure if the game will hit for me. I liked what I watched though, and I’ve always meant to go back and pick the show back up.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
Far Cry 3. Surprisingly good to be honest, I bet I would have loved it back on the PC when it released, similar to the Tomb Raider reboot. I can tell how incredibly influential it’s been too. It’s a shame that it goes off the rails at the end and also squanders Vaas completely.
Beat Blood Dragon too. Real good when it leans into the 80s action movie parody, less so when it goes for the GTA humour. Feels a lot like DOOM 2016 in some areas which is impressive for a PS3 game, the minigun feels incredible.
@Th3solution Haha, there definitely was an emphasis on some of the game's faults, but don't worry! Your enjoyment of the game still shone through in the end. I wasn't fooled. And good thing, or else I would've had to start an argument right there and then... (just kidding)
Honored that you even thought about going back to my impressions when I finished! I'm happy to say I'm in a better place now than I was back then, but those feelings still ring true often when I think back to the game. Effective storytelling in any medium, but especially games, can just be so beautifully intense. Probably why I will always gravitate towards games with a focus on the story!
@RogerRoger I think I mentioned that I went back and re-read your wonderful review of LiS2 also, and so I had a pretty good inkling of which ending you got based on your comments there. And I’m as surprised as you are because you’re correct — I usually take the paragon/high moral approach the majority of the time in my games. I have to actively go against my instincts to do otherwise, as was the case when I did my renegade run in Mass Effect last year. I struggle to find any interest in games like GTA or Saints Row where the whole point of the game is to be a self-absorbed criminal, breaking the law and creating chaos. I do, however love games where I start as a criminal and then reform and have a redemption arc, like Red Dead Redemption or to a degree in The Last of Us or BioShock Infinite, etc. (on the subject but as a random aside, you reckon I would like the Mafia games?)
I guess the crux is that I have a hard time causing pain, suffering, or injustice in these fictional worlds just for the sake of being a ‘bad guy’, a ‘criminal mastermind’, or a ‘cool destructive villain’, or whatever the motive may be for people to take that route. But I suppose I have felt comfortable when I’m wreaking havoc for a noble or virtuous cause. To be clear, in real life I’m not a “the ends justify the means” advocate, by any stretch. But in games I’m much more liberal with obtaining justice for the sake of fairness to my characters. I suspect it’s because my subconscious knows this is make-believe and so is a good testing ground to be a dissident. I’m not exactly sure what that says about my character, but hopefully it’s not condemning.
So in the case of LiS2, I knew with certainty that Sean was innocent and wrongly accused. The greater moral ground (in my mind) was to obtain justice for him personally and maintain family ties. Unfortunately, the destruction that I was allowing Daniel to do through his powers got quite out of hand and many innocents were killed or harmed in the process. But I was pretty tactical in that I only harmed people who attacked me or got in the way of my escape. For example, as I escaped the prison, I did not take out any revenge on the couple who shot Daniel. I chose not to free them, but I left them unharmed.
From a morality standpoint the only unjustifiable mistake I think I made was I didn’t stop Daniel from messing around with the scorpion in the desert, and I didn’t realize I was being morally judged for that. If I was camping and a scorpion was crawling around our campsite I certainly would have no problem getting rid of it! Of course I wouldn’t torture it, but I didn’t get the sense from the game that Daniel was hurting it but I guess that’s what was supposed to be portrayed, because it appeared to give me a mark against my morality, based on the end choice summary. One other place where my morality meter suffered was by not chastising Daniel for his cursing, despite that my own character (Sean) was role-modeling the usage of such colorful language. It just felt hypocritical of me to try to fight that battle with Daniel, and so the game counted it against my morality. As far as stealing, I think I only stole a couple times, once in the opening episode when I pried open the donation box (which I figured my personal charitable cause was greater than any meager benefit a few dollars would have on helping the park) and a second time when I felt the game forced me to take the yo-yo for a gift for Daniel; I wasn’t sure how else to progress the story. Otherwise, I didn’t steal.
But the lesson I appreciated about the end game messaging from my result was just how gradually we can fall into the trap of justifying our inappropriate actions. It seemed like I had excuses for behaving badly and all the while I was being led down the primrose path of becoming a bully and a gangster.
Regarding the trucker, yes I had no second thoughts about trusting the trucker. I think my reasoning there had as much to do with what I perceived to be a greater mortal threat from heat stroke and death by dehydration. I figured I’m almost about to die in the desert anyway so what have I got to lose? Also, there’s a certain subconscious comfort in knowing that there’s still 4-6 hours more of game left so no matter what happens here Sean isn’t likely to be killed or have his story end, no matter what I chose to do. Furthermore, I think this is one of those examples where subconsciously as a U.S. citizen I didn’t feel as nervous about it as I think the developers intended.
Speaking of, I do think my enjoyment of the game benefitted from being further removed from the timeframe surrounding the 2016 election that the game was obviously trying to leverage. The nauseating narrative around the sociology-political firestorm of that time period had me concerned if I would tolerate a game that could have ended up feeling like playing through a series of episodes of the U.S. evening news. Obviously the issues of racism and extremism still persevere even in 2023, but at least the craziness of that time doesn’t feel as acute as it once did. It’s kind of like watching a show or playing a game about a deadly global viral pandemic might feel quaint and interesting now, but 3 years ago would have given us all eye-twitches and nightmares because it’s just too close to real life at the time.
Sorry for the rambles, but I’m glad to have finally had a chance to compare notes. Are you up for LiS True Colors at some point?
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@nessisonett Oh nice that you beat Far Cry 3. Are you planing to play more games in the franchise soon? Even in the Ubisoft incarnation I often think of Far Cry as one of the best looking games around. I think its really cool how Ubisoft manage to create such cool environments in every part of the series.
@oliverp I think I’ll probably go through the rest of the series but I’m wary of burning myself out, the games are notorious for reusing animations and are fundamentally incredibly similar. I’ll have to rotate them with polar opposite games.
@oliverp From the opening two hours of Far Cry 4, almost every animation is the same but a bit shinier due to the generational leap. Almost impressive in that respect how similar the two games feel to play despite the jump in visuals 😂
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