I thought Bridesmaids was one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Even in the context of it being a gross-out comedy, I thought it was terrible. Horrible main character. Horrible chemistry between the main cast. Horrible "humor."
@nessisonett Yeah, even by John Hughes standards, it's still quite bad. I felt gross while watching it. Possibly the least likable main characters I've ever seen in a movie.
@zupertramp Ah. Well, I thought your post was perfectly fine, but I also appreciate people trying to be considerate of others, so carry on!
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@Ralizah I absolutely agree with that about Bridesmaids, it’s utterly atrocious. We do gross-out humour a whole lot better over here. The Inbetweeners movies aren’t as good as the show but they’re better than Bridesmaids.
Some of the Disney live-action remakes have been pretty darn good (Cinderella; The Jungle Book), and other, less excellent ones have at least added an interesting dimension to the stories they're based on (Aladdin; Dumbo). But the live-action Beauty and the Beast is an abomination. Everyone else loved it, and I was horrified how they ruined a childhood favorite of mine. The music was off. LeFou was reduced to an obnoxious gay joke. The leads had no chemistry. The writing was terrible. And, frankly, I can't think of much worst casting than having Emma Watson portray Belle.
Oh, and while we're at it:
The Force Awakens is my least favorite of the new Star Wars movies. It seems to be the only nu-SW film to have escaped controversy, but at least TLJ and ROS have original plots and aren't just noisy action-hero movies in diguise (Rey is basically Rambo in TFA).
@JohnnyShoulder I actually really liked most of those movies (although Joker is near the bottom of that list for me; it feels a bit like a parody of a Scorsese film at times), but Moonlight was one of the most boring films I've ever seen in my life. I don't understand the appeal at all.
@nessisonett Paul Feig has yet to make a good movie. The closest he came to making something watchable was Spy, and even that just feels like it was designed to facilitate some sort of wish fulfillment fantasy on Melissa McCarthy's part.
Most of those films i listed had been hyped up massively in one way or the other and my expectations were quite high before seeing them, so was a bit let down by them. Ah well, ce la vie.
But then you get films like Drive, The Witch, Don't Breathe, Jumanji, Good Time, Solo when I had little or low expectations beforehand and came away pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed them.
Oh, that reminds me of another over hyped movie: Baby Driver. Style over substance, except the style isn't potent enough to justify the approach. I didn't hate the film, but found its universal critical acclaim a tad baffling.
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I didn't much care for E.T. or Blade Runner, and I'm just not a big fan of any of the live action Batman movies (LEGO Batman is probably my favorite Batman film).
I actually liked the Green Lantern movie as well as Battleship (it's been a good few years since I've seen either, however).
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@JohnnyShoulder yeah i frickin' loved Once Upon a Time in Hollywood but then I'm not the biggest Tarantino fan so I wasn't sure what to expect. And then I went in to Da 5 Bloods almost certain it'd be great because I am a Spike Lee fan but I did not like it at all.
So I'd definitely agree expectations have a lot to do with our opinions.
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"One of the unloveliest and least enlightening aspects of contemporary discourse is the tendency to presume that whatever one disagrees with must be very simple—not only simple, but also simply wrong." - Elizabeth Bruenig
So, this is just me rambling. My thoughts are disorganized, but I felt the need to express them in some form.
So, my family and I marathoned all three Bill and Ted films recently. I remembered chunks of the first film, Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, but Bogus Journey was totally new to me. And, of course, Bill and Ted Face the Music is new to everyone.
I find myself... conflicted about this series. I don't really find it particularly funny (especially the first film, which is so incredibly childish and simpleminded in its approach to the subject matter). I admire the simplicity of the first film's premise, but the sequels take the joke about Bill and Ted saving the universe with their music in the first film and construct an increasingly elaborate and messy mythology around it. The sequels also, for whatever reason, feel the need to incorporate more traditional narrative elements that grind against the absurdity of that universe. Did anyone who admired the first film go into the theatrical showing of Bogus Journey expecting plot elements swiped from The Terminator?
Bill and Ted are, of course, anachronistic in this day and age: like Beavis and Butthead, their slacker metalhead personae simply don't align with the social landscape of modern America. I was concerned about how Bill and Ted Face the Music would address this, but, thankfully, the film is fully self-aware, and, while it is excessively messy, has too many plot threads, etc. I really liked how the film explored the displacement of the titular characters, now much older and questioning their place in the universe more broadly. Indeed, the film could just as accurately be titled Bill and Ted's Midlife Crisis. The absurd overarching plot about them harmonizing all life in the universe with their music forces the characters to re-examine the trajectory of their lives. It's in these earliest parts of the film when Bill and Ted Face the Music is at its strongest, I feel, as there's a certain Dostoevskian delight to be had watching the conflict between these living anachronisms and the world around them, which has moved on and broadly doesn't understand them.
I mentioned Beavis and Butthead, but those kids are awful. One thing I've found myself consistently enjoying in these films is the depiction of Bill and Ted themselves, who are a delightfully playful and unique portrayal of American masculinity. These boys are fundamentally good-natured at heart and utterly lacking in the sort of toxic masculine traits that define how boys typically interact in buddy comedy movies. This is highlighted in the second film, when a pair of robots that look like Bill and Ted are sent from the future to kill them. These robots are essentially the same as Bill and Ted, with one major exception: they're utterly lacking in any sense of goodness or human decency.
One of my complaints about how men are portrayed in TV shows and movies, broadly speaking, is how little range there is when it comes to depicting male relationships. You have, of course, the usual heterosexual, nuclear family arrangements. You get men who sleep around. You get serious men committed to serious things. But you don't see a lot of variation in gender role adoption or male friendships. Even the "bromance" genre, which became more popular years back and ostensibly depicts male friendships, is utterly unimaginative and either cribs material wholesale from "frat boy" classics like Animal House or else plays up boys or men feeling affection for one-another as something of an awkward joke. The first thing that immediately occurred to me when I watched these films is how utterly comfortable Bill and Ted are with one-another. They're obviously very heterosexual and dig the "bodacious babes" they bring along with them from medieval England in the first film, but they also can't conceive of life without one-another. This is played up for comedic purposes a bit in the latest film, when Bill, Ted, and their respective wives go to couples' therapy (together, because "we're a couple of couples!") and the two men always feel the need to mention one-another when confessing the affection they feel for their wives ("Bill and I...", "Ted and I..."), but the film never feels like its ridiculing the pair for their special connection. Their interesting, sort of poly family arrangements seem to extend to their teenage daughters as well, who take after them and, like Bill and Ted, seem glued at the hip.
Throughout the latest film, I also appreciated how the two men keep meeting with various iterations of their future selves. These sequences are playful with notions of gender, as Bill and Ted's future selves can be anything between muscled, hardcore prison dudes and foppish dandies. Bill and Ted are always fundamentally Bill and Ted, though: their sense of identity and self-worth isn't anchored in societal expectations or illusory notions of what it means to be a man. In this way, I really came to admire these metalhead slackers and the way they added much needed nuance and diversity to depictions of men and male friendships in film.
The anachronistic nature of their personae are also reflective of the way society has devolved in recent years. It's not just the metalhead slacker thing that makes them feel out of place: it's also their inherent sense of goodness and persistent plea for people to "be excellent to each-other." As American civilization seems to be falling down a dark rabbit hole of ideological extremism and tribal warfare, it's refreshing for these awkward, middle-aged dorks to remind us that we can, and should, be better. I'm not sure if this satirical layer of the series was intentional or not, but it definitely added to my enjoyment of the series, and especially the latest movie.
While the latest movie has issues with the way it approaches its plot, I do think it also showcases the ideal way to resurrect Gen X nostalgia while also updating and modernizing it. There is a plot twist in the latest film that fundamentally puts the final Bill and Ted adventure in similar territory to something like the 2016 Ghostbusters reboot thematically. But while Feigbusters alienated many of the franchise's older fans and seemed designed to be divisive and disrespectful toward the legacy of the original, Face the Music feels like a celebration of the franchise it's a continuation of, and so its push toward greater female representation is one that will likely be welcomed by long-time fans. This same plot twist would have infuriated fans if positioned differently, but everyone involved with this film clearly loved the property and knew how to do it justice.
While I feel like I lost some brain cells in the process of watching these films, I can't even really say I didn't enjoy watching them. I guess you could say I weirdly admire these films in certain respects, and I'm glad Bill and Ted had the opportunity to go on one final adventure. I'm sure most of their fans appreciated the reunion.
@Ralizah It’s nice to see that the newest movie is at least pretty good. I don’t think any of us were expecting it to be a cinematic masterpiece but all I ask is that it’s better than the Jay & Silent Bob reboot!
@Ralizah interesting. as someone who loved bill and ted as a kid (i remember having the soundtrack to the sequel on cassette) i can honestly say i had absolutely no interest in the new movie but your comments made me reconsider. probably won't watch any time soon but when i eventually do I'll try to keep some of that in mind.
"One of the unloveliest and least enlightening aspects of contemporary discourse is the tendency to presume that whatever one disagrees with must be very simple—not only simple, but also simply wrong." - Elizabeth Bruenig
@Ralizah No, the recent Jumanji. I had really low expectations of it but it exceeded them massively. Fun movie to switch your brain off to.
Interesting to read your thoughts regarding Bill and Ted. I really liked the films when I was younger but I have not revisted them recently so am unsure if the comedy would still resonate with me. Its cool to hear that the latest one is not a total write off and is getting some praise .
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
How about Willow? Anybody a big fan of that? I'm pretty sure the critics hated it but that's one of my all time favorites! Also Labyrinth! Now there's an underrated gem!
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Great read @Ralizah. I remember really liking the 2 Bill & Ted films, I got the original soundtrack on CD (Play with me by Extreme was a fav at the time). I haven't seen them in a very long time and wonder how they hold up. I'll probably try and re-watch them before checking out the new film.
@Ralizah Your Bill & Ted post was a very enjoyable read. It was a wonderful break down of the movie series and the reasons for it’s allure. Like others have mentioned, I now feel motivated to see it (probably when it drops onto a streaming service) which I had no interest in before.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@BearsEatBeets Good call. There are a ton of callbacks to earlier films (which was very apparent to me due to how I watched them one after another), and the plot itself fuses crucial plot elements from those films as well.
I wasn't sure how necessary it'd be to watch the previous two, but there's not a lot of point in watching the newest one in isolation.
@RogerRoger Most of the nicest people I've known over the years would probably be termed "social outsiders." Not outcasts, necessarily, but also not jiving with much of the larger culture they live in. This leads many of them to become sympathetic toward people who don't fit cookie-cutter social molds. I imagine this is as true of metalheads as any other social outgroup.
Having been a minor fan of a few metal bands myself in times past, I do also think there is perhaps a sort of cathartic effect to regularly listening to such music and using it as a sort of emotional outlet, although I'm afraid I've never bothered to actually research the literature that exists on the subject.
@RogerRoger@Ralizah I have to agree on the benefits of music, movies, and gaming as an emotional outlet. I’ve been known to come home after a particularly stressful day and retreat to video games as a means to express frustration and lose myself from reality for a couple hours.
I’m no psychologist, but it does seem a healthier way to deal with stress. But I don’t know.
[To keep from getting too off subject for the thread] I find that movies can have a similar alleviating effect if/when they either A) portray an uplifting or inspiring message to motivate me to confront my problems, or B) have a fantastical and surreal plot to serve as an escape to let my brain rest from reality.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
It being a movie thread I was trying to avoid arguing about this but I think it's worth sharing that I believe the the newest research shows that expressions of cathartic anger don't act as a vent; instead it's more like anger practice, basically expanding your capacity for anger.
What that means for our metalheads I couldn't say but as someone who has struggled with anger all my life, this feels true. Giving in to anger, regardless of the outlet, seemingly just feeds the boiler, so to speak.
Of course my experience is anecdotal but I encourage anyone struggling with anger issues to look into the relevant data.
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"One of the unloveliest and least enlightening aspects of contemporary discourse is the tendency to presume that whatever one disagrees with must be very simple—not only simple, but also simply wrong." - Elizabeth Bruenig
@RogerRoger Definitely agree regarding individual personalities and if someone finds something that works for them, in the end I suppose that's what matters. Psychology does often feel like a decidedly inexact science but y'know, food for thought and all.
And most of my comfort movies aren't very comforting lol. Or I find profoundly sad movies comforting for some reason.
You've reminded me I need to download Airplane for my kids. They're old enough and have never seen it.
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"One of the unloveliest and least enlightening aspects of contemporary discourse is the tendency to presume that whatever one disagrees with must be very simple—not only simple, but also simply wrong." - Elizabeth Bruenig
@zupertramp@Th3solution I'm inclined to think anger is going to express itself in an individual's behavior one way or another. As someone who was taken to a therapist as a preteen and who was given ineffective methods for dealing with my own aggression (I was supposed to write in an "anger log" when I became upset, lol; I tore that thing in half a day later), I'm inclined to think that different types of people manage anger in different ways. I also think "cathartic anger" expression is more or less healthy depending on what the behavior is and/or how the individual relates to. If you use a rifle to shoot cans to blow off steam, maybe it's a good thing. if you keep seeing your boss' face and imagine his brains splattering across the dirt, maybe you're just rehearsing unhealthy thought patterns that'll lead to something worse in the future.
One of my psychology professors in school was very pointed about drilling home the point that the term "social science" is a bit of a misnomer: while you can (and should) adopt a scientific attitude to the study of human behavior, cognition, and development, people are weird, complex things that can't be studied or categorized in the way you'd study or categorize a rock, and you're rarely going to find that people react similarly to almost any sort of stimulus.
Which is why I added the bit about not knowing what the literature says on this subject, because even if something is true to MY experience, it's not necessarily going to be true for other people.
Personally, when I'm angry, I'll sublimate my feelings into aggressive cleaning. I've thrown away a few things I've regretted after I came to my senses, but it's overall a healthy outlet for emotions that I know will just get me in trouble if I either try to talk about them or especially just repress them.
@RogerRoger I'm not sure I have any movies like that, but I will say that it's extremely difficult to not to grin like an idiot when watching My Neighbor Totoro (specifically the original Fox dub for me, although I also enjoy the film in Japanese; hate the newer Disney dub, unfortunately), which is probably why it originally featured as the back half of a double feature alongside Grave of the Fireflies, which is flat out the most upsetting film I've ever seen in my life. 😂
I've also watched A Nightmare on Elm Street a LOT since I was a kid, although I don't know if I'd call it a "comfort film." I just like it, and it's a great go-to if nothing else will do.
@Ralizah Haha! Sorry for the late reply, but yes. You should absolutely watch Portrait of a Lady on Fire. Despite my cynical tone, I wasn't taking the piss there. I realise that a French-language romantic movie probably doesn't send shivers down your spine, no, but it's a gorgeous movie. I'd go as far as call it the best one I've ever seen. The story is fairly simplistic, but the way it's executed is just a thing of beauty. The leads ooze chemistry left and right, but still manage to play their fairly reserved characters to perfection. The movie has some incredible cinematography and directing, some of the best and best looking I've ever seen in a movie. When people say about movies that every frame could be a painting, that's quite literally Portrait of a Lady on Fire. It's paced incredibly well, and even though in the middle there might be a bit of a questionable decision, the ending is fantastic. It's certainly not your average American romcom, or even just romantic film. I hesitate to say this because I acknowledge it's pretentious nature... but it's art. Hopefully that's enough convincing for you to give it a shot at least! I'd love to hear back what you thought if you do.
P.S. I don't appreciate the Paul Feig slander! Spy, A Simple Favour and Last Christmas were all highly entertaining movies!
@nessisonett Ha! I remember really not liking The Dark Knight when I first watched it, but it was also my first "rated 16" film and Two-Face got me scared out of my pants. The power of Heath Ledger in that movie is undeniable though. I've always wanted to revisit it and see if my opinion of it would've changed now that I'm older (and wiser), but honestly... I'd totally also rewatch Mamma Mia before I'd rewatch The Dark Knight. Maybe we'll have to hold a Mamma Mia rewatch party. This is a HEN party! WOMEN ONLY!
And reading the replies over the last few days, I suppose this isn't the place where I should mention I wasn't a big fan of Midsommar...
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