@Th3solution I agree that there was a definite sense of disconnect between the actor for Shazam and his child form. The casting wasn't great in that regard, as it felt like two different people. I thought the casting for Darla's Shazam form was much stronger, as I could buy that she was an adult version of that character. And, yeah, the villain isn't great, but the last great villain I've seen in a comic book film was Heath Ledger's Joker, and the force of that portrayal was almost entirely down to the acting on display.
The mythology itself is bunk, of course, but, again, that's standard for superhero fare. I like that it shifted the focus away from the fantasy set-up to use its concept as a metaphor for coming-of-age. A bit like Spider-Man in that regard, actually, but more explicit.
The concept of the superhero itself in this film is incredibly uncreative, and doesn't have the design uniqueness of the best classic superheroes.
(I apologize now for the long Shazam post, but I gotta get some stuff off my chest before I forget) @KALofKRYPTON Yeah, I had absolutely no preconceived ideas about the Shazam character or its universe before seeing the movie. I didn’t even see the other Shaquille O’Neal rendition, which is supposedly just plain awful. Sometimes going in blind is good for these things and sometimes it hinders picking up on the lore and Easter eggs (wow, a timely use of phrase 😉). As for Mr. Mind, I had no idea who he was until I just now googled him. I completely expected the end scene to be the Joker talking to him from the next cell. I figured that would have been the predictable segue into the upcoming movie. So kudos to DC for being unpredictable.
But since you have a good knowledge of the source material, I’m wondering are Billy’s powers based on the Greek Gods Zeus, Hercules, Mercury, etc. in a meaningful direct way in the lore, or is it just a metaphor? In other words, is it — “You have powers LIKE these people had” or is it “You have inherited the ACTUAL powers of these people” That’s kind what I thought was an interesting concept that was really glazed over without explanation.
But like @Ralizah says, there was focus away from explication of the lore and mythology in favor of character focus and the coming of age story, which I can respect that and there is only 2 hours to squeeze it all in. (But yeah, Spiderman: Homecoming did ‘coming of age’ better, I think) But they spent a good 20 - 30 minutes trying to show the origin of the villain and it still felt a little disingenuous and campy. I mean the implementation of the dad and the brother picking on the little boy was so cringeworthy and forced, that it may have been better to just leave the whole car wreck scene out and have him show up as an adult searching for the wizard and taking the powers of the 7 deadly sins. I suppose what they were going for was a contrast of the two young boys, the one evil and the one good, and how “family” is what you make it and a person’s genetic family isn’t always their best “real” family with the contrast of the villian’s dad and brother. Either way, I would have rather had that time spent more on the background of the wizard and the council. It short-changes the big payoff at the end I think.
And on that subject since I don’t know about the original comic books, are we to expect that there will be propoagation of the foster kid Shazam team? Was that a one-off or are the Shazam comics really about a full group of Shazams that continue to have ongoing adventures together as a family of superheroes? I think it’s an interesting approach, and again, the movie doesn’t really say this explicitly but it’s implied that each kid got one of the superpowers, and the main Shazam Billy has all of them (flight, strength, electricity, super speed, and ... I guess that older girl got the wisdom of Solomon?? Is that a superpower? See, it frustrates me that none of this is explained). Not to mention I think the wizard said the original council had 7 members and he only had 5 foster siblings. Where are the other two? And he destroyed the staff, so I guess those last two wizard council members are just out of luck for ever coming back. As an aside on the subject of the kids turning into Shazams, it was eerily close to looking like the Power Rangers 😂
And speaking of campy - I would have liked the costuming to be less literal with the old comic feel and a little more modern and sophisticated looking. I realize Shazam’s bright red outfit and electrically lit bolt on his chest is partly a narrative piece and symbolic of DC saying “we’ve heard the critics and we’re not going to be so dark and grim and we are going to be more cartoony and lighthearted and fun.” But I’m trying to imagine Shazam in future movies standing in with the modernized design of Batman, Superman, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman, and he is really going to stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe he and Flash can hang out together the whole time. 😄
And there are certainly enough DC hero references that it seems a given that they get together because Superman comes to lunch after all.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution Powers wise, yes, sort of. More of an interpretation 8of the classic Greek/Roman/Abrahamic figures as powerful magical beings rather removed from their religious beginnings. As for the rest of the family, yep - that's from the comics. I didn't expect it in the first film though! It's something they did in the newer Shazam (post Captain Marvel) origin very much in homage to the Silver Age stuff where every hero had a similarly powered 'family' (look up Comet the Super horse 😉) I loved that they put Mister Mind in there, it's so ridiculous. It makes me suspect that Black Adam will very much be it's own thing and possibly bring Shazam in to it at a later stage.
I don't like the costume. It looks a lot better on screen than the leaked set pictures, but yeah. Looks a bit too cheap, and the muscle suit is way too obvious.
It is pretty close to looking like the newer comic stuff with the glowing bolt, but by then the Cape was far more substantial and he often made use of the hood.
I do sort of wish they'd gone with the classic buttoned tunic look in some way, that could've come across as better looking without being quite so cosplay looking.
As for fitting in with the rest of the DC characters; no one in Hollywood is shy of a redesign for aesthetics/marketing reasons. I'm surprised that the Justice League Superman suit looked as good as it did on screen given the tone of the picture. It's a horrid costume that. And a really nonsensical iteration in the context of Snyder's films. I think more than anything, they'll need to 'adult' Shazam (I do hate calling him that... 🙄) up a bit. In the comics he becomes pretty competent very quickly, and as I said before - largely puts out a relatively grown up persona most of the time.
But then, he does encounter Black Adam very quickly.
@KALofKRYPTON Thanks for the info. That helps to know some context. I did look up Comet the Superhorse which led me down a bit of a rabbit hole and onto a pretty hilarious article on Cracked of the creepiest superheroes of all time. 😂
I’m not expecting Comet to show up in the next Justice League movie.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@KALofKRYPTON Birmingham is a tad too far for me to travel for something I could watch at home with my feet up and a cup of tea, but thanks for the tag all the same!
I wonder how many people will watch the first two and then just, well... leave.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
I'm tempted. I reckon if people if the mindset of my and friends, the plan would a slow leisurely burn until Batman Forever then get close to steaming drunk for Batman & Robin. It'd be a blast! 😂😂
PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)
Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)
"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker
Not saying they're both are great but Doctor Sivana and Zod are DCU's best/better villains so far. The rest were pretty crap. Oh, actually Harley Quinn and Deadshot were pretty good as well.
@WanderingBullet Doctor Sivana, not so much. I did like Zod.
And Deadsh#t was was awful; nerfed and softened to make it a suitable 'hero' part for Will Smith.
Leto's Joker would've been a great villain given the chance. Certainly a divisive take, but he was genuinely menacing and absolutely stole every scene he was in.
PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)
Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)
"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker
@KALofKRYPTON "nerfed and softened to make it a suitable 'hero' part for Will Smith."
Tbh, I was hoping for a more evil take on the character but it's Will Smith, he's never gonna do an evil villain role, not at this stage of his career anyways.
I thought Leto's version of the Joker was okay but nothing special. It's hard to top Heath Ledger's Joker, imo. We'll see how Joaquin Phoenix does with his version.
@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy All good, I personally thought both her and Smith had good performances even though the movie was terrible.
@WanderingBullet at this stage of his career he could do anything.
Ledger's Joker was right for the Nolan films. It's a good performance without doubt, but not particularly a favourite of mine.
@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy I didn't mind Harley. One thing that Suicide Squad got very near to portraying was how ugly Joker and Harley's relationship is. It's mostly romanticised in fandom (I know a couple who did Joker and Harley cos play as part of their wedding celebrations 🙄), but it is a hideous relationship - even the animated versions show that. So it was good to see on film.
I really do wish they used more of the Joker and Harley stuff they shot though. It's a shame to waste Leto.
Phoenix will undoubtedly do a good job, the film itself really doesn't exite me at all though.
PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)
Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)
"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker
Joker with Phoenix is a peculiar beast that's for sure @KALofKRYPTON with it seemingly looking like quite an arty psychological character piece from that first trailer
I do agree that the relationship between Joker and Harley was portrayed correctly on how awful it actually is... I just thought Margot Robbie's performance was bad
... Better then no talent Enchantress mind you 😜
Can certainly agree on S-Squad being a terrible movie @WanderingBullet . I saw it via Blu-ray from a friend and still feel cheated by it!
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