Topic: The Chit Chat Thread

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@Tjuz Am I correct in reading what you said as heterosexual men viewing being with a bisexual woman as a trophy of sorts? That surprises me. I'm not even sure what the thought process behind that would even be as why that's something noteworthy or inherently positive to have in a partner!

• This is a hard question to answer and my answer doesn't apply to all heterosexual men. When I first dated I did attempt a 'normal' relationship. I'll warn you in advance that there was an age difference but I was nineteen, more than the legal age. He was forty something. I met him in a normal bar that I frequented, then a week later he took me to dinner and afterwards we went back to his place where after some wine things transpired as they do.

He stopped dead in his tracks. Said 'I really like you but I can't hurt you', I looked up and he was actually crying. I'd never seen a grown man cry and haven't since. He then sat me back on sofa and said that I needed to remember what he was about to tell me. None of what he said registered. I don't know if you've ever been near a high caliber rifle without earplugs, you hear both the explosion that propels the round and a kind of reverberation if you are inside. It was like that, I don't know what he said, none of it. A car came and I left. I don't know what he saw, or what he picked up on because we never discussed preferences. I was experimenting with normality and some how it lead to his reaction.

The second guy was similar in that we went to dinner then back to his place for drinks. He left the room and instead of returning with drinks said 'I'm sorry this was a mistake' then he drove me home himself (he didn't wait for that car) he drove like the wind, then he passed me a plush cat (which I still have) with some chocolates and I never saw him again. The third was a pilot and I'm saying that because he told me he'd never actually been able to discuss aviation during a dinner before. I like aviation, the mechanics of flight and like spending time in the cockpit, to him that was something unique. Then once again after dinner we went back to his place and before even mentioning drinks there it was again 'sorry I made a mistake, we better get you home'.

At time time I thought I was doing something wrong. I gave up looking and instead opted for a kind of arranged system. You've heard of arranged marriages? It's the same thinking without a ring and without singular commitment. It also temporarily brings families together if the interested parties are partners in business too, or if their parents are. That's what I've been doing ever since those three initial attempts and it works. Part of me wonders if the first three were deliberately scared off, were they told before we even went out that night to do X, Y and skip Z. Or did they receive a text. It was too much of a coincidence, they said the exact same thing word for word. Either way no one said and I didn't ask.

Those three had a different mentality than those since, all of whom were arranged. I can give an example that you might not like but it fits what I meant by trophy or perhaps I used the wrong word.

Two weeks ago we were all three out for dinner (I'm keeping this PG) something happened under the table, quite subtle. My Partner then went outside for a cigarette and we followed for some air. Someone walked out on the terrace, approached him and said 'I need to ask what you do? are you a pornstar or something' I'm not sure how I reacted but I definitely made a noise. My Partner laughed and said no, then he offered one of us to that person. He considered the offer for a moment or too, politely declined then continued to make small talk. That person then went back inside and shortly after so did we. That offer he made was a courtesy, and again I'm of age so it's perfectly within the law. That's kind of what I mean by a trophy. It's like taking sexual orientation and being able to use it to your advantage. The person saw two women first and that formed his approach, he was curious. The problem becomes would I be happy if he'd have said yes, I can't answer that.

There are two reflections. The one you see when you have to face yourself in the mirror, everyone experiences that. The other is how your behavior reflects on another person, had I said 'absolutely not' then someone may have seen that as a reflection of my Partner's ability to keep his girl in line. If he can't then questions might arise such as how does he keep his business in line? He might even appear weak to be putting up with back-talk or stubbornness. I'm being careful with my words I know it's 2025. That's a recent example of what I mean when I say that kind of a dynamic can be seen as a trophy or an asset. It can start a dialogue regardless of gender. There's also the courtesy side of it too that you absolutely would not agree with, and something I can absolutely not expand too much on.

You said people are quick to judge what they don't understand and that would be a perfect example of that statement. They'd jump to all kinds of conclusions based on their impressions and understanding of the situation but they'll never understand the underlying reasons as to why an arrangement like that might exist. That person was given the option to consent, it wasn't implied it was expressly given. He made his choice, my choice was circumvented through a kind of Intermediary of sorts. That kind of courtesy then becomes plausible deniability. So yes some people would see that level of accessibility as a kind of trophy. If it were done as a purposeful tactic then you could argue that you are weaponizing sexuality but for that to even work you'd have to use direct involvement against the person. It's a very grey area. I was trying to think of a more recent example that was as equally tame, that's the one that stood out.

I think people need to be careful when they choose a lifestyle that is so outside of the socially accepted norm, it's not always a picnic but neither is sitting beside a grown man who was brought to tears because of how incompatible you are with that socially accepted norm.

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@Tjuz My music tastes wildly vary, but emotion and raw feeling are usually what I gravitate towards, and I always had access to old cd's of Queen and Elton John from my mum and dad, same with R.E.M, I suppose and a bunch of varied stuff. I'm probably more on the counter-culture side of the fence, but I like anything that resonates with me, or makes me feel, regardless of genre ir popularity.

It's probably not the time for it, and I don't want to introduce any woke vs not woke debates. But it also fascinates me how "media is woke now" is a common theme, when I feel music is so far removed from what it used to be that the opposite can be said. So mucymh popular music is about being famous or getting money, or getting laid, or weak ass standardised "romance" drivel, or absolutely f*** all of inportance, just total nonsense words slapped together lacking all emotion and creativity. A lot of it is just fluff. And yet music was always a driving factor in rebellion, saying what you believe in, how you feel about society, what emotions really drive you and how that relates to you (not the image you are trying to create), all these things that would be considered "woke" today. Cinema was always smart and had a message, but now it is The Fast and Furious-er Eleventy One: Maximum Family 🤷‍♂️ I do believe some modern creatives that try to include a message are about as subtle as a brick to the skull, too, but that is completely a talent issue, not a belief issue. And of course there are still a lot of good things in all media, but still. All things cinsidered it always confuses me when the arguments start, and people act like believing in something as a creative has only existed for ~10 years. Art, poetry, books, people have always writen and created from their own experiences and with their own beliefs as a guide.

It was a tangent, but it is something that has been lurking in the back of my mind for quite a while, the state of some of the vapid entertainment that lacks any real soul is far more of an issue than stuff that has a message that is a bit clunky. Most things becoming diluted by streaming services and wavering attention spans.

I feel like what you mentioned about your dad is maybe quite a common thing, whereby they may use words without really understanding the impact or really feeling strongly about the issues, especially when it is then presented to them by someone they love. Obviously a lot of people still have issues, which is saddening, and hopefully your story is nore positive, but sometimes it is literally just their upbringing and the first time it is really presented to them in a way that requires that to be questioned by them they kind of snap out of it, a bit. I have no experience with it in that sense, but I can recall schooldays where even though i'd only ever stay friends with someone that isn't genuinely hateful, and nearly all of my closest school friends were big emo empaths of some variety, like me, that some, including me, at times would still use various slurs (or not even slurs, sometimes simply using "gay" as a throwaway insult) just because it was the popular choice of language at the time. Like, I know from my perspective I was just too stupid and throwaway with words to even consider things then as anything more than just sounds that we make, honestly. And I remember one friend I met later at another school was like "why do you say things like that, it is not an insult and makes no sense" and I thought about it beyond just being noises and agreed instantly and never did again. Simple as that, for me. Part of it was probably because I acted like a chameleon and was able to move through many different friend groups who each had their own language styles and quirks, and i'd picked that up mon the more 'football oriented' side of my freind pool, but I know from that point on i'd actively encourage anyone else that did that same thing to think about it and just stop as it isn't needed, it doesn't benefit anyone, and it could hurt someone, even if it is so far removed from your own intentions you don't even realise.

An open mind is all anyone ever actually needs to enjoy their life more. It opens access to so many more opportunities, and it is properly perplexing that more people don't see that 🤷‍♂️

I hope you brought a flask of something tasty and got nice and comfy before reading all of that 😅

And... Oh yes, definitely seek out that Elton song. It is one of those you can tell means so much to him, and the story behind it is probably far too common, even if exaggerated through fame in his case. And R.E.M gosh, Michael Stipe is a wonderfully damaged, beautiful human spirit, and you can hear it in his performances. I'd recommend "Country Feedback" "nightswimming" "pretty persuasion" but there's too many to list, so I will stop. But two of those are less mainstream and worth mentioning for that. Country Feedback kills my composure every time.

Are you someone that likes to delve into various music regardless of age/genre etc? Or do you have a certain subset or genre you gravitate toward? I might as well extend the music chat in the chit chat thread, as it ties in to the other things too

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@Tjuz Sounds like you went through a very complicated relationship with this man. Like everyone else, I will always condemn grooming, but that in no way should erase the way you experienced it. Whether it was for better or worse in the end, I'm not going to make a judgment on, but I'm glad that you personally can look back on that time and see more than just negatives.

• It's a dark practice, very dark. It was initiated through deception, which does bother me. I see nothing good from telling a child that the other girl you were speaking to died in a car accident (she never existed) he could have just said that he was behind all of those profiles, he did two years later. You need a lot of cunning to be able to manipulate someone to follow you across the web like that. It was all so subtle. His first step was 'it's late aren't you tired?' that looks like concern, so you agree and do just that. The next night it's 'look at the time you should go to bed', followed by night number three 'it's time for bed'. It creeps up on you and becomes acceptable behavior, a routine. It doesn't take much work after that to get you from that once safe site to another App/site/etc.

The whole thing was very, very odd. He could of done what he wanted but had restraint, it was more about showing what he could do than actually doing it. There were one hundred and twenty active users and I knew them all by name, I even knew their pets names. They'd share so much, I assume they trusted that I wouldn't tell anyone. I think the biggest shock to me was that so many average every day 'normal' people were the ones who were the ones who created the demand. That's where the distinction of 'normal' started to warp. As the years went on he softened and (I think) started to see me as a person, I talked a lot (shocking I know) and I don't think he was ready for that. I should have been scared but I wasn't and most of what did get passed around was never shown to me (thankfully) The one thing he did do early on was give me a URL and a password, tell me to go look, then come back to him the next day with my thoughts on what I saw. I did and he seemed satisfied by my feedback. I really should hate him right? I would if I could.

I hate that the situation can and does exist where a child can have their naivety used against them, but I'm grateful that mine was more specific, it kept me safe, or rather he did. I did meet people who were absolutely terrifying. Not everyone who identifies as Dominant by nature are Sadistic by nature but a Sadist is generally both. The first doesn't explicitly want to harm you, they understand the difference between discipline and in punishment. They make those lines clear because they want you to understand why a certain action has an accompanying reaction. It prevents you making that mistake again. A Sadist on the other-hand has to hurt you physically, mentally, or emotionally, it's wired into their code. Those are the ones I feared, you don't know what they are thinking, or how they are going to react. The phrase you used to walk on egg-shells, it's exactly that. I never felt it with anyone else but those types. I did ask questions and did get answers but I can never be sure if they were correct.

There are all kinds of people like that out there. Three more that come to mind were related to gaming. The first approached me one day and started complementing a horse I had in a game. We struck up a conversation. He started sharing videos of My Little Pony (the children's show) followed by music videos (fans make pony music) a couple of weeks later it was art and that's where things got more serious. His whole thing at the start was 'I can help you with English I'm actually a Teacher' The part he left out was that he'd been removed from his last school because a student made a complaint. Apparently you can do bad things in some schools then be moved to the next and not go straight to jail.

The next was similar but with Anime, and the third like I mentioned before was when I was of age and he caught three years for what he was doing offline. There were so many others scattered around different games. Just recently there was a trophy article and it talked about platinum trophies. Mine was from Littlebigplanet and I didn't even know what trophies were, my 'friend' did and once again it was the same story.

The point I'm making is that people look for boogeymen at the top of the food-chain when really they need to be looking at their neighbours Barney and Fred. Maybe even Wilma too, the women I knew in that group were awful. Worse than the men. The organization I affiliate with (discretely) works to find those Barney's, Fred's and Wilma's before they can offend. My input is in resources which then provide logistics, I also share details of how those groups work (though it all changes with technology) the Apps, and so on. That group did get taken down, unfortunately evidence in a setting like that only goes so far, victims need names and faces, distribution doesn't but so much of that side was purposefully kept from me and I don't identify as a victim even-though there was offline interaction too.

At it's core it was multicultural and as you can imagine different countries handle it differently, I'm sure some did get away unscathed. I was too young and too 'but they are my friends' to do anything about it then, I really did think they were my friends. It's December now and that's a perfect example of why I said friends. One December 25th (Christmas for you, different calendar) I did login to see who was around and sure enough someone did come online and spent most of the day talking to me. He trusted that person enough to know that they wouldn't do or say anything untoward, they were true to their word. It reinforced that idea of friendship which then made it even harder for me to ever turn on them.

That's why I reacted the way I did with that Wild Lands situation. There was no trigger, trauma or anxiety to it. I heard what they were saying and just knew what they were up to, especially when working in a pair. I don't think it's up to Sony, I think it's up the parents. If you neglect a child you leave that door open to an outside influence. I imagine (though can't prove) that early sexual confusion heightens the risk of a child going to that kind of a person for answers, simply because they are scared to tell a family member. The person in the middle then slowly begins to take the place of those parents, they become your go to for all life's answers, curious musings and simple everyday companionship. You don't even realize the trade-off took place, it's routine. As an adult I get little bread crumbs that return, I suppose you could call them memories, names, and so on followed by a lot of deep thinking. I was deep thinking for the last half hour.